The Lass Word: Murphy Is Not the Problem

Top guy taking heat for staff failures.

Whenever your team has a disappointing season and seems to be taking a downward spiral, it’s only natural for fans to affix the blame.  The coaches, particularly the head coach, are the usual first targets.  Next comes the general manager, who will come into question for the decisions he has made in constructing the roster. 

But judging by many of the comments I have observed from readers of CHTV articles, and other social media sources, a significant segment of Packer fans seem to be kicking the blame for Green Bay’s problems even higher up the ladder.  President/CEO Mark Murphy is at the heart of the franchise decline, according to these.   

I can see where that conclusion might come from.  Upon rearranging the team’s management structure in 2018, Murphy did say he would become more involved in the football operation.  Since then, Matt LaFleur, Brian Gutekunst and Russ Ball have been on equal levels of the chain of authority, and all report directly to Murphy.  So one might think it’s only logical that, any time a major decision looms, such as whether to recommit to Aaron Rodgers, whether to sign an expensive free agent, whether to trade a star player, or whether to make a change on the coaching staff, would all have to run through, and might even be initiated by Murphy. 

I suspect that is broadly true, in the sense that his staff must get his okay on decisions they have made. I seriously doubt though, that Murphy is the source of any of the aforementioned decisions.  Throughout his tenure, he has continuously denied being involved in any kind of nuts and bolts issues regarding the football team.  Five years ago, when he first enacted his restructure, he emphasized his purpose was to improve communication amongst coach, GM, and the Finance department.  “Obviously, I think anybody who is in a position like mine, you hire really good people and you allow them to do their job,” Murphy said at the time.  “When doing their job requires working well together with others, [you're] making sure that that's occurring.” 

A year later, in an interview with Rich Ryman, Murphy doubled down on the claim.  “I’ll be involved and supportive, but I’m not going to make football decisions” he emphasized.  “I’m not making decisions on who we are going to draft, or who’s on the 53-man roster, or whether we should pass on third-and-1."   

What about a seminal decision, such as the Rodgers contract situation a year ago?  Was it Murphy who actually made the call that the Packers were going to stick with the reigning two time MVP, and re-sign him for three years to the richest deal in league history?  Or was he just approving a strategy that Gutekunst/LaFleur/Ball came up with?  Publicly at least, there was no indication Murphy played a role in bringing the future Hall of Fame signal caller back, except to give the ultimate okay. 

Perhaps I am gullible, but I am inclined to believe this.  Gutekunst and LaFleur had the most to lose by trading Rodgers away.  They likely figured they could not survive two or three rebuilding years with a new quarterback.  Murphy, on the other hand, was completely secure in his position with or without Rodgers, and had little to lose either way.   

The CEO has insisted that his function is to make sure the money is there, and that’s it.  A good example was pointed out by ESPN beat writer Jason Wilde, in a 2018 article.  Wilde wrote that if Murphy ever wanted to truly interfere with a football decision, it likely would have been the releasing of Jordy Nelson in 2018.  At the time, Nelson’s jersey was the top seller in the Packers’ Pro Shop.  Jordy was enormously popular and active in the community, and was the face of an advertising campaign for Bellin Health's Titletown Sports Medicine and Orthopedics Clinic.  From a corporate point of view, getting rid of Nelson was bad for business.  But Murphy did not block the departure.  “What we have tried to do over the years is provide the resources to football so they can make decisions based on football, not business matters,” Murphy is quoted as saying. 

If Murphy truly meddles in football decisions, I find it hard to believe he would stand by and do nothing about controversial and unpopular moves such as retaining Joe Barry, or moving up to draft a quarterback in the first round. 

There is one football decision for which Murphy is directly accountable, the contract extensions given last July to LaFleur, Gutekunst and Ball.  I find it hard to fault that decision because, at the time, that trio had led the Packers to a three year record of 39-10, the best regular season mark in the NFL over that time span.  With all three nearing the end of their deals, I doubt any of us would have done otherwise. 

Walking through the Titletown District, it’s impressive to see the massive recreational, industrial and residential empire Murphy has spearheaded around Lambeau Field.  Developments that will become revenue streams into the franchise for future decades, assuring that America’s only major league publicly owned team will remain in Green Bay for generations to come.  Murphy deserves credit for that.  Despite the lack of a wealthy owner with deep pockets, the small town Packers are in great financial shape to compete with the rich elite that govern most other teams. 

Murphy has confirmed he will retire on July 13, 2025, the date he turns 70 years old, in compliance with franchise regulations.  He says the process of selecting his successor has already begun by the executive committee.  Murphy would like nothing better than to see his legacy enhanced with one more Super Bowl win before he walks off into the sunset.  Regardless of whether that happens, he has been, on the whole, a positive force for the Green Bay Packers.  Blame him if you like for whatever problems the team faces now, but I don’t believe they are of his doing. 

 

PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.

__________________________

Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.

__________________________

NFL Categories: 
6 points
 

Comments (235)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
croatpackfan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 06:38 am

Ken, you might be right, but...

Who announce decision of MLF hire? Brian Gutekunst was there just as decoration. Who announce this massive 150 mill $ contract that was signed with ACR last season? Brian was there just for decoration.

Second, in every franchize structure is clear. GMs of football operations are those who are superior to HC & contract negotiations and for drafting. We all can see that Brian Gutekunst just control draft and composition of roster. He has no authorities on HC & financial part of the business. That is weird construction which gives Mark Murphy "we are not idiots" complete control on football operations. If Mark Murphy statement is true and that he does not mess into football operations, I completely understand why Packers football operations are in total mess. There is no accountability as all parts of football operation are separate and nobody control what each of them are doing.

So, either he was not completely honest or he is the cause of that mess.

Not to mention the processes of bringing MLF to the position of HC, which was strange to the people connected with NFL. One or two hours and only one interview with single candidate before he got the job. More over he said publicly that he and Brian Gutekunst were the ones who are interviewing MLF. Is that normal that you had only one candidate and that the person who stated he is not controling what his subordinates do, just approve or not their decisions take the merits for very important decision on who will be Packers HC.

C'mon man. There is to much smoke in his statements...

17 points
21
4
CHEESEHEADDALLAS's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:06 am

If you believe that Murphy has nothing to do with the team, please send me some of what you are smoking and must be as clueless as our leadership, coaches, and gm. TIME FOR THE TRUE OWNERS TO CLEAN HOUSE IT IS HOOVER TIME IN THE OLD TOW TONIGHT

1 points
4
3
croatpackfan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:01 am

"TIME FOR THE TRUE OWNERS TO CLEAN HOUSE IT IS HOOVER TIME IN THE OLD TOW TONIGHT"

And true owners are?

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 12:07 pm

The corporation is publicly owned. It is not, however, publicly controlled by its shareholders or stakeholders. It is effectively held in trust by a board nominated by the President, whom the Board in turn appoints. It’s actually unique not just in the NFL but in Wisconsin because it’s a not-for-profit with owners—something that was not barred back in the 30s when the current entity’s technical predecessor was established. It doesn’t really fit, but the state accepts it is a charitable not-for-profit privately owned entity by grandfathering.

According to the Articles filed with the State of Wisconsin by Bob Harlen, the purpose, or mission, of the Packers is as follows:

“The undersigned have associated and do hereby associate themselves together for the purpose of forming a corporation under Chapter 180 of the Wisconsin Statutes and acts amendatory thereof and supplemental thereto. That this association shall be a community project intended to promote community welfare and that its purposes shall be exclusively charitable and that ·incidental to its purposes, it shall have the right to conduct athletic contests, operate a football team, or such other similar projects for the purpose of carrying out its charitable purposes, which purposes shall be carried on within the State of Wisconsin,· and especially within the County of Brown, in said State.”

Interestingly, football itself is neither the exclusive means of achieving “community welfare” nor even a primary aim. It is clear that the ultimate objective is the general benefit of an undefined “community”. In the event of dissolution, any spare assets go to the relater Packers Foundation and not to stockholders (though there is a right to redeem stock at 25 cents a share).

In essence then, the President acts as an owner subject to only a board that itself has no ownership interest, just a vote each. Yet that President controls nominations to the Board. He is an owner without owning the dollar assets. All powerful but not financially benefitting from success or failure beyond salary.

If this doesn’t make it clear why the President should stand aloof as a custodian from day-to-day management of both football and non-football ventures, I don’t know if anything will. It should, more do than in almost any other entity. Our President and his nominees are our only safeguards; they can’t be that and part of the problem. They currently are.

2 points
4
2
CHEESEHEADDALLAS's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:54 pm

The Stock holders are the true owners

0 points
1
1
13TimeChamps's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:43 am

"Is that normal that you had only one candidate..."

While hiring LaFleur after one 2 hour interview, if true, is a very questionable practice to be sure. But there is no way that LaFleur was the "only" candidate interviewed. The Rooney Rule strictly prohibits that.

4 points
4
0
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:52 am

He was the last of 10 scheduled initial conversations that took place when the process was stopped by Murphy during his exploratory phase talk with LaFkeur.

6 points
6
0
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:54 pm

Bingo Coldworld! Thanks, Since '61

1 points
2
1
croatpackfan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:54 am

I know. But there was no reports that any other candidate was actually interviewed. Maybe they did some internal interviews with Gray and Stenavich, I do not know. It will be interesting to know.

-2 points
0
2
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

January 30, 2023 at 04:01 pm

Per Murphy, back then: ""We ended up interviewing seven candidates. It was a little bit of a whirlwind," Murphy said while discussing the hiring process. "We went from Green Bay to New England to Memphis. We were going to stop in New Orleans, Nashville, Indianapolis." They had 9 interviews with 7 candidates, so at least 2 candidates got a second interview.

2 points
2
0
croatpackfan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 04:25 pm

Thanks, I did not know that.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 06:36 pm

Don’t know where you got that from. The following 10 initial interviews were confirmed to have occurred at the time. Allegedly plans had been made to hold second interviews with at least 2, but that never happened as, by Murphy’s own admission, he had decided that LaFleur was his man before landing back in Green Bay after the LaFleur meeting. LaFleur was stated to be the last planned first interview. That ended the process.

Jim Caldwell
Chuck Pagano
Joe Philbin
Josh McDaniels
Brian Flores
Dan Campbell
Pete Carmichael
Todd Monken
Adam Gase
Matt LaFleur

Cant give links, as I’ve posted one already in this thread.

1 points
1
0
4thand10's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:36 am

I’d still like to see what MLF can do without AR before I pass judgment on MLF.

1 points
3
2
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:57 pm

Just look t what he did with an injured AR in 2022. He didn't even start Love when Rodgers injuries were clearly affecting his throws. If a healthy Love isn't better than an injured Rodgers what does that say about Love and his readiness to start. Not pretty picture. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
4
2
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 06:48 am

Ken, not sure if you've ever worked for corporate America, but no company improves communication between its various departments/units by creating silos; I spent more than a few years of my career working to demolish silos that IMPEDED communication and, more importantly, allowed managers to shirk responsibility for their bad decisions.

If the Packers' corporate structure were efficient, then every team in the league would be using it. They're not.

Murphy is the problem with the football side of the team.

24 points
29
5
Oppy's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:23 am

Don’t know it’s fair to compare packers corporate structure to the rest of the NFL and say that since it’s unique it’s not efficient otherwise everyone would be using it.

The Packers themselves are unique. No other team in the NFL can be compared to the packers. They are a not-for-profit. It’s an entirely different beast that no one could really replicate unless you find a billionaire owner who doesn’t want to turn a profit from his multi-billion dollar investment.

-1 points
3
4
Bitternotsour's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:41 am

Hierarchies are dependent on chain of command. If you are a lieutenant (Murphy, Ball, LaFleur) you damn sure don't get out of your lane. You bring good advice to the general, but you have to contend with other lieutenants having opposing opinions. Guess who decides?

Murphy is the one making the decisions. Murphy made the call to go all in. Murphy is responsible. The other thing is Murphy sets the agenda, Gutekunst does not. Ken, you couldn't be more naive.

3 points
5
2
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:30 am

Whether civil or military, our culture, capitalist system and common law is heavily rooted in the concept of respondeat superior, (Latin: “that the master must answer”). The master, or President in a company, bears ultimate personal responsibility for the decisions and actions of his or her employees performed during the course of their employment and for the performance of the enterprise as a whole.

This is reflected in the tradition of the captain going down with the ship and central to the notion of responsibility in all facets of life, including the status and pay that go along with the burdens, or responsibilities, of corporate leadership and fiduciary protection of those with a stake in the entity and to preserve the mission for which that entity exists for the benefit of those stake holders and society in general.

Apparently some would excuse Murphy. No organization should ever absolve its leader for what happens under that leadership or absence thereof under that person.

3 points
5
2
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

January 30, 2023 at 04:07 pm

Silos were exactly what GB had under the old structure. Murphy focused on the business end of things, and by the end of Ted Thompson's tenure, articles suggest Thompson and Mike McCarthy were barely communicating at all. Murphy did this to overcome the silos. I don't see what is so wrong with the current structure. Until this year they went 39-10 and then an injured QB, injured offensive line, underperforming defense, injured wide receiver corps, uninspired TE group all led to a poor season.

If Murphy feels like Gutey has built a strong roster and it's not performing, he can fire the HC. If he feels like the coaching is working but the talent level is lacking, he can fire the GM. There are many ways to structure an NFL team and more than just GB use this structure. It has largely worked.

People are just mad Rodgers didn't play well this year and the defense didn't play well this year and suddenly it's all Murphy's fault. It's just revisionist to blame this on silos when silos was the very issue Murphy worked to overcome.

-4 points
0
4
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 05:27 pm

If other teams use this structure - who? Even Dallas doesn't use this structure. The GM should be in charge of ALL football related areas, as was the structure prior to 2018 - the ""silos" Murphy talked about were caused by TT's health and wouldn't have existed with a different GM.

3 points
3
0
packerbackerjim's picture

January 30, 2023 at 06:59 am

So no chain of command, diluted responsibility, is a confused organizational model.

14 points
18
4
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:09 am

It's the Packer Way!

2 points
3
1
Bitternotsour's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:41 am

it is now.

0 points
1
1
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

January 30, 2023 at 04:08 pm

This is just stupid. There is a clear chain of command. Murphy can fire any of them and they all have to be responsible to him.

-3 points
0
3
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 05:28 pm

Never worked in a large corporation have you?

1 points
1
0
egbertsouse's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:08 am

If the staff is the problem and Murphy fails to take action, Murphy IS the problem. He is either meddling and causing chaos or he is too focused on theme parks and condos to deal with the clown show that is the football operations. Either way he is the problem and probably should be encouraged to take his multi million dollar retirement package a couple years early.

26 points
32
6
dobber's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:17 am

We don't agree often, but this is very succinctly stated.

9 points
11
2
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:58 pm

Cookie for egbertsouse! Thanks, Since '61

3 points
3
0
Barts's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:08 am

MM (McCarthy) did the franchise a favor when he wanted a personnel guy instead of a financial guy as GM. MM (Murphy) had to step in and change things..

4 points
6
2
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:07 am

Murphy admitted that with Ted’s decline, he encouraged Ball, an accountant, to stand in as GM. That led to the favor you reference and forced the end of that experiment. Murphy then made sure to at least preserve Ball’s input in contracts independent of the titular GM he appointed. So I’m not sure what your point is.

Those who doubt may find this (no paywall) Silverstein piece illuminating:

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/10/mark-mur...

Also this statement by Murphy on the team website explaining how the shifted piers from the GM role; "I felt that, over time, silos had developed within football operations and communication had suffered. Also, I wanted to create a structure that gave [Brian] Gutekunst the best chance to succeed. By narrowing his responsibilities (several of the GM's responsibilities were shifted to Russ Ball, including salary cap management and contract negotiations), it allows him to focus on the most important aspects of his job, the draft and determining the 90 and 53-man rosters."

He went in to detail how major decisions are now discussed at least every two weeks routinely in a scheduled meeting of Murphy with Ball, LaFleur (originally McCarthy) and Gute. He has further detailed how, before preemptively decided on LaFleur on his own and stopped the process, Ball was as involved in the decision as Gute. It’s said that the decision to hire Rizzi as ST coach was tabled by Ball’s objections during such a meeting if the 4 and, by the time Murphy decided, Rizzi had decided he wasn’t impressed by the lack of commitment the delay evidenced.

At some point, avoiding the man’s own statements, actions and structures requires willful denial.

4 points
6
2
NJ-RICK's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:14 am

MVS is now living the life/dream in the NFL super bowl bound... Very happy for him. Another X-Packer who was let go because our group of misfit MGT people felt he wasn't worth keeping... Seems to me he is doing just fine in KC land. And there are many other Packer players that MGT has let go over the past 3 or 4 years that are still playing and doing well on other NFL teams. Packer MGT has this team in a downward spiral. Its time to move on from them and bring in new MGT people who have a different vision/direction on where this team needs to go. Sorry Ken but Murphy is just as responsible for the mess this team is in right now. Time to bring in new MGT...

-2 points
7
9
dobber's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:22 am

"Another X-Packer who was let go because our group of misfit MGT people felt he wasn't worth keeping... Seems to me he is doing just fine in KC land. "

He's a role player. You just happened to see him with his highest output of the season yesterday.

Had his best season--42 catches, 2 TD. You'll have to tell me if that's worth the contract he signed.

11 points
13
2
RCPackerFan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:35 am

No, not worth it in all honestly.

But I do have to wonder if they had resigned MVS, would things have been differently in GB? I would have loved him over Watkins. And if MVS in GB stayed healthy we would have had 2 deep threats with Watson and MVS. That could have been very exciting.

Without Adams, MVS likely would have been the number 1 WR and likely would have produced even more. So at that point perhaps the contract would have been worth it.

I don't blame them for letting him go. I do wonder how things may have been different had they resigned him.

12 points
12
0
MainePackFan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:57 am

RC. if they kept MVS, do they draft both Watson and Doubs? I think they would still have drafted Watson, but I have doubts whether Doubs would be on this team. For me, I would rather have Doubs going forward.

2 points
3
1
RCPackerFan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:10 am

I honestly believe so. Watson clearly is a player they loved and targeted. So I think they draft him regardless. And I think Doubs was the best player available kind of thing. So I think they still draft him as well.

But in that scenario, if it was MVS or Doubs, I agree I go with Doubs.

I don't blame the Packers for letting him go with the contract he signed.

I Just wonder how much of a difference MVS would have made in GB had they resigned him.

1 points
1
0
gkarl's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:44 am

Nice to see MVS have a good day yesterday, happy for him.

Not sure having 2 deep threats if he stayed would have been a good thing. Seems we throw the deep ball way to much on third and one already, then either punt or fail to convert on 4th down.

With a 250lb back and/or a quarterback that can/would run a QB sneek once in a while it seems like we should be able to gain 1 yard with 2 tries.

1 points
3
2
croatpackfan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:08 am

Yesterday, MVS was the best receiver of KC Chiefs. I will not go into discussion why is that, maybe the true football analysts can answer that question.

But, in the only NFCCG he played for Packers (season 2020/2021) he was also the best WR on Packers team. Remember? He caught all passes and was open very often, just to be overlooked by perfect person under the name of ACR. Who was pushing balls to Davante Adams.

I might be wrong, but in hindsight it looks to me that there is more on Davante than on ACR for those 2 MVPs ACR collected. Maybe, that was the reason why Davante decided not to stay with Packers. I doubt we will ever knows.

-3 points
2
5
Packers1985's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:27 am

"I might be wrong, but in hindsight it looks to me that there is more on Davante than on ACR for those 2 MVPs ACR collected. Maybe, that was the reason why Davante decided not to stay with Packers. I doubt we will ever knows."
Didn't Adams miss 4 games that yr with turf toe and GB won all those games and i think Lazard was missed too after that saints game. Hey come on buddy Agreed that Rodgers is not blame free in the NFCCG for for sure but calling his MVP is becoz of Adams is a little reach. Even Adams chocked a bit in that nfccg where he dropped few catches which he normally does catch. First of all scoring 31+ points against a top 3 defense is really hard that too with a shuffled oline(we lost Bakh right before that game) . Yes, Rodgers could've run the ball to end zone or if Adams had caught the catch when thrown to him even when Lazard was wide open we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Agreed that 2021 season success is totally on adams because we lost so many crucial pieces be it oline, or MVS getting hurt early in the season or Tonyan out with ACL. That is totally expected. The problem with Packers has been some bad luck as well as some poor coaching decisions like not firing drayton mid season even though we all knew that the ST's going to cost us the game in the playoffs. Rodgers making some poor decisions like trusting his All pro WR to make plays for him instead of looking for open wide receivers. It's a mix and match of all those events that hurt this packers team last 2 yrs.

0 points
2
2
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

January 31, 2023 at 02:43 am

MVS is worth every nickel of the $9M he made in 2023 and the $9M he is scheduled to make in 2024 with KC. That is 4.00% of the 2024 cap limit.

Reasonable people can disagree. I have had an argument on another site with a poster who is generally pretty smart. MVS' yards per route is bad at 1.38. Next Gen stats hates MVS, in part because it doesn't think MVS gets open very well, but other sites think the opposite.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nfl-receiver-rankings/

1 points
1
0
Untylu1968's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:40 am

Maybe he's doing fine, because he has a QB that "trusts" him?

9 points
13
4
croatpackfan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:08 am

That QB throws accurate balls to the right point. And has the excellent offensive coach who knows how to use him.

4 points
7
3
Packers1985's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:32 am

Yet he crossed this best yr with not much compared to what acheived in his second or third yr with packers. Mind you now he is a 5 year veteran compared to what he was with us. Didn't you see an adjusted catch by him yesterday when Mahomes threw it little further. That's a wow catch and we didn't see much from him alot when he was with GB.

0 points
1
1
Packers2020's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:38 am

Or maybe he has one of the best if not the best play caller in the league as well as the best QB in the league.

1 points
3
2
Packers1985's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:34 am

All year he hasn't been that great but he came to life in the playoffs. He made a great adjusted catches yesterday which were mostly 50/50 balls when thrown his way in GB.

1 points
2
1
Curt's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:42 am

MVS was not resigned because he got a better offer elsewhere - 3 years at $30 million + potential for $6 million in bonuses.

He should be more productive than he is based upon dollars involved. The last few weeks he has finally gotten some TDs and made some plays, but 42 catches for 687 yards seems low for a team that throws all the time.

Not sure based upon next season's stats the Packers won't be better off with Watson than MVS. Both would have been nice, but it came down to Lazard (60 catches for 788 on lots less chances) or MVS - couldn't pay both.

8 points
10
2
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:59 am

I was with you till the last part: Lazard had a great deal more chances.

Lazard was affordable for us this year, MVS was not as it turned out (not much was). Even though I believed he would help and still think he would have last year, I don’t think he’s the ideal foil for Watson though over the longer term.

2 points
3
1
Starrbrite's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:54 am

Thanks Curt—an excellent explanation and one I agree with.

-1 points
1
2
Tekraut17's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:23 pm

Totally agree! As if we can sign EVERY player that ever played for us. God forbid any of them has a good game or two because of course the FO should have resigned them...Oh and by the way we are in SALARY Cap HELL so there is NO Fing Way we can sign everyone. New England is the only team with a better win percentage than us since MM took over and they are notorious for letting good/great players leave. You simply can't afford to pay what other teams will pay for these players.

0 points
1
1
CHEESEHEADDALLAS's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:09 am

Another idiot move by management along with the 2020 Draft

-3 points
3
6
Tekraut17's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:25 pm

Idiot move to not overpay a very average performer? He was no superstar for KC this year and they are paying him $10mil per year (which we couldn't afford).

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 03:29 pm

This week at least I’m thinking that that team is very happy with their investment.

2 points
2
0
Packers1985's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:44 am

I think Kelce is what that run's KC's offense. All night Bengals had a plan for Kelce which opened up plays for MVS and he definitely made some amazing catches esply that adjusted catch he made from that overthrown pass by Mahomes. Playing with rodgers definitely helped him mould to Mahomes style of play when Mahomes had off script plays he was shadowing the qb esply the TD he had yesterday was from such play. He definitely developed as a player and we missed him alot last year.

3 points
3
0
13TimeChamps's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:04 am

Over his 5 year career MVS has averaged 33rec/3TDs/568yds per year with around a 50% catch rate. This year he had a slightly higher receptions with 2 TDs in 17 games. Yesterday was his first decent game of the year. This is with TWO first ballot HOF QBs throwing him the ball. He's a role player who occasionally has a nice game. No way in hell was GB going to pay $10 million for that type of production.

3 points
4
1
Untylu1968's picture

January 30, 2023 at 12:19 pm

Now, just stop it with the common sense and logical posting! Nobody wants to hear that BS around here..😁

1 points
2
1
PackAttack4155's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:15 am

As the one who changed the structure of who the coach, general manager, and finance department report to, Murphy is directly responsible for the new system working, or not. Responsibility for poor performance of staff is on the one at the top. It seems as though the restructure coincided with, or contributed to confusion in regards to an overall vision for the future of the franchise by decision makers. Is there going to be a complete rebuild, partial rebuild, subtle changes, stand pat, another "Super Bowl window is still open," pipe dream? I wonder how many different answers to the question you'd get, if answered candidly, from Murphy, Gute, LaFleur, and Ball. Of course they would share a similar narrative, as they should for appearance, but I think there are some significant differences in opinion on the franchise's future by those at the top.

17 points
19
2
RCPackerFan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:28 am

The 3 people I have seen the most blame go to on here are Mark Murphy, Matt LaFleur, and Aaron Rodgers.

Its easy to want to place blame when things don't get the way you want them to. And the ones in charge are always the easiest to blame. Sometimes things just happen. We need to maybe look at things that sometimes there are anomaly's. Sometimes there are accidents or things that just go wrong.

That's how I view this year. I view this as an anomaly. The previous 3 years they were 13 win teams each of the years. This year we finished 8-9, and fought and clawed our way back from a 4-8 record. There were a lot of changes made from the previous year, and they really weren't able to overcome them. Now it won't be an anomaly if they make the wrong decisions this offseason. They have to make some important decisions in the offseason. First they have to figure out what to do with their current players. First one is what they are doing with Rodgers. Perhaps they already know, just haven't made it known yet. Next they have some salary cap issues they need to work out. But easily can get that part figured out with reworking some contracts. And then they have the draft. They have to nail this draft like they did last years.
IMO if the roster stays exactly the same as it ended the year, they have to find upgrades at 3 positions. TE, WR, and OLB. TE is severely lacking playmakers. WR while I love Watson and Doubs, they can't rely on them to be the number 1 and 2 next year. They have some uncertainties with Lazard and Cobb, whether they will be back or not. If they are not they need to add a veteran or 2 and they need to keep drafting. One of the issues why our offense has struggled the last however many years is because they stopped using high draft picks on WR's. From the time they drafted Cobb in the 2nd round until they drafted Watson in the 2nd round, they spent 2 high draft picks on WRs. (2nd round Adams, and 3rd round Montgomery). The problem with that is Cobb was drafted in 2011 and Watson was drafted in 2022. In 11 years they spent 2 high picks on WR. From 2005-2008 they drafted 4 WR's in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, and also drafted Finley too. There is a reason why 2010/2011 our WRs were the best in the league. They invested into the position. They stopped doing that after 2011. OLB, they have to improve the pass rush. Gary likely will miss part of the season and even if he doesn't it will take him time to come back from his acl. They really could use an explosive type of pass rusher. They have a lot of guys that are good at bull rushing. They need a guy that can bend the corner and apply fast pressure.

I have seen so many people wanting to blow the team up and start all over. Some have said they would rather we trade everyone and aim to get the first pick in the draft. I completely disagree with people that think that way. I'm not saying changes don't need to be made, I just don't agree with blowing the team up. Even if they were to trade Rodgers, I don't see the reason to get rid of our best players. If they think Love is the guy, why would they blow the team up set him up for failure. That makes no sense to me.

1 points
9
8
Leatherhead's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:41 am

"" Sometimes there are accidents or things that just go wrong."""

That's how I view this year. I view this as an anomaly."

Me too. RC.

"", I just don't agree with blowing the team up."""

Me neither.

-2 points
3
5
dobber's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:30 am

"That's how I view this year. I view this as an anomaly. "

Based on outcomes (record, playoffs), yes, it is. Teams and rosters evolve. You can't run a team shrugging off shortcomings and just calling it bad luck. Honest self-scouting and evaluation is vital to moving forward: everyone else is going to do it. The "running it back" mentality promotes a static status quo that makes you an easy scout, whereas everyone else in the division has put a target on your back and has been trying to devise specific ways to beat YOU. If it doesn't work, they'll try something else. The Packers must evolve, too--and every year (and within seasons!).

Good analysts and data people are going to look at trends outside of just this season and see that this team has continuing trends in offensive performance efficiency that track back into early 2021. They converted one-score games at a nearly unsustainable rate in 2021--that regressed to (or maybe past) the mean in 2022. We can rationalize that in terms of personnel losses, but how is the team going to rationalize it?...and what methods are they going to devise to fix it?

"I just don't agree with blowing the team up."

I don't either. This team has a lot of promising young pieces, and trading away every player with a big contract for picks makes no sense. Some guys need to go--the cap will demand it--but there needs to be a cohesive vision based on a realistic assessment of who you are, what your assets are, and how you're going to win the prize. There are a lot of guys on this roster who would be important pieces in a winning formula.

4 points
5
1
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:35 am

"...what methods are they going to devise to fix it?"

According to Scooter, we're going to address it with consistency (i.e. doing everything the same with the same coaches).

2 points
4
2
Bitternotsour's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:53 am

Ted adhered to a plan. Draft, develop, get younger, faster, cheaper. When Murphy took the reigns that plan was abandoned. How often did we see players get a third contract with Thompson. We always managed the cap on the front end, not by pushing problems down the road.

The key in your assessment is promising YOUNG players. This is the first regime I can remember that put all their eggs in one overpriced 40 yo basket. Good analysts realize people get old.

Mark Murphy is the CEO who gets in trouble and immediately cuts back on R&D. Not a winning formula.

2 points
4
2
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:38 am

Perhaps a better parallel is removing safety protocols, since that’s what he did in terms of the separation of powers

4 points
4
0
Packers2020's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:16 am

My question to ask is what is your definition of blowing up the team?

I think they keep Aaron Jones and restructure or pay him the bonus to lower his cap number this year. They most likely do the same for Bak.

Ultimately, the question is Aaron Rodgers. Even if we trade him, I don't look at that as blowing up the team. You still have some pro bowlers and solid players on this team. Plus, you may have 2 extra first rounders to play with for TE, WR, Safety, and OL.

If Jordan Love ends up being even a solid QB, we may field a competitive team anyway.

2 points
2
0
dobber's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:16 pm

"My question to ask is what is your definition of blowing up the team?"

I would say that cutting ties broadly without a plan of replacement, tearing it down to the studs by throwing away just about anyone born by the start of the grunge era, is blowing it up.

I think every year you need to do an assessment of who fits into short-term and who fits into long-term planning and roster construction. You deal with contracts accordingly. Anyone else can go.

I agree: I think AJones should be brought back on a restructured deal. I think he's got two good years in him, yet, and 2022 showed us that even when the blocking was suspect, he's still productive. I disagree in that I think you look for a taker on Bakhtiari--but if nobody will meet your asking price, you bring him back rather than cut him. I'd like to avoid re-doing his deal, though.

At this point, I don't think dealing 12 is blowing it up. He didn't have his best supporting cast, and he had issues with health, but it's hard to feel that he isn't regressing to the mean. That means that they're approaching the point where an average-to-above-average QB can do a lot of the things 12 does. Right now the Packers are paying 2016 ARod, not 2023 ARod.

1 points
2
1
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 05:16 pm

I agree. Blowing up a team is liquidating almost anything with value or cost that can be replaced to some extent and that definitely isn’t part of a three year plan. See the Lions and Bears over the last two years and last year respectively. Free up maximum cap and roster flexibility and add as many picks as possible around a small, young, affordable core core with everything else expendable if it reasonably replaceable by others in roster, has enough value in terms of picks and current and near future cap. Short term performance is secondary at best except as a showcase for potential future value/development for next year and beyond.

1 points
1
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

January 31, 2023 at 02:59 am

GB will have to touch Bakh's contract. And probably for big money. You are trying to have your cake and eat it, too.

2 points
2
0
T7Steve's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:35 am

"The Packers must evolve, too--and every year (and within seasons!).9" Change that to "Within GAMES." You get better or you get worse. There's no staying the same in the NFL.

Good one dobber!

5 points
5
0
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:06 pm

Sleeve of cookies for Dobber. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
2
0
J-Rome's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:49 am

While I think they should trade Rodgers, I don't think they should blow it up. If they believe Jordan Love is capable of leading this team why would they set him up for failure? That doesn't make sense. If they trade Rodgers AND blow it up that might show how they really feel about Love. Personally I would have liked to have seen how Love played with the current team around him this year.

2 points
4
2
4thand10's picture

January 30, 2023 at 12:05 pm

I agree, but the team has a ton of new players. Needs I see are TE ,OL, DL, another RB for when jones gets injured, another WR or keep Lazard,and another OLB/ DE. Possible safety. They’ve been perennially rebuilding… except at QB, kicker. Mason can’t kick it to the back of the end zone anymore, Rodgers can’t perform miracles with a mediocre team anymore. Lewis is going to be what ? in season 19?. And if you need him blocking 24/7 your OL has issues. Cobb can’t beat with speed anymore. Clark still needs significant help next to him…it’s not a matter of “ oh, clark needs to play better”. That DL front would have all the weaknesses exposed with out him. We finally have sideline to sideline LBs but still need OLB for when Preston leaves.So I hope they have weight room plans for Clarks side kicks otherwise they have to STILL be on the search for legit help next to him on the line. Run defense wasn’t the the best and they need to be better to at least make a half assed effort to stop running teams like SF, Philly, Buffalo, Cincinnati etc.. The only positions that need to be blown up are TE, kicker and the QB switch. a true Shanahan Lafluer system doesn’t need miracle worker QB play, just ones that can play the system. The system wasn’t played this year due to AR and a coach that didn’t have the balls to make him play the system. I hope they pay or bribe Biscacilla cause i don’t want to go back to talking about special teams again. Take a flier out on a 7th Rd QB just to piss AR off enough to want to play somewhere else.

2 points
3
1
PackyCheese500's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:06 pm

I don’t view this year as an anomaly. I view it as an exposure as to how ouch we relied on Rodgers and Adams to carry our team against average opponents in the regular season. We have failed in the playoffs routinely against the great teams, but now with the loss of DA, our ineptitude has bled into the regular season.

I do not think we should “blow up” the team,” per se, but I do think we should try to offset a few cap hits and getting younger in general. David Bakhtiari, Aaron Jones, Aaron Rodgers, and Preston Smith are the four players I would seek to cut or trade. They are older players with large cap hits, and the expense devoted to them prevents us from upgrading the roster in positions of need. Not to mention we could get some nice capital for players like Rodgers and Bakhtiari.

Blowing the team up to the extent the Bears did last year will only exacerbate the rebuild. I think we should keep guys like Dillon, Nijman, Clark, Gary, and Alexander. If we get rid of the 4 guys I listed above, cleaning out the salary cap for the next few years, and draft smartly in this year and next, like we did in 2022, I truly believe that as long as Jordan Love isn’t a complete flop, we can be contenders again by as soon as 2024.

4 points
4
0
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 03:35 pm

I also don’t see this as an anomaly. Just because a result is an outlier over the recent past, it doesn’t mean it’s an anomaly. It could just as well be a trend or a change in overall circumstances. It merely suggests that the competitive parameters have changed or that things weren’t quite as homogenous as they seemed previously.

I do not see last year as an anomaly. I see it as a predictable outcome of the circumstances in which we entered the season and those continue to apply, in fact may do so with greater rigor. That tends to happen when you try the same things with less resources and older.

2 points
2
0
Savage57's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:39 am

Solid article, Ken, that points out reality and hammers flat all the imagined sins fans like to whine about when their team stumbles.

Murphy's doing exactly what he's supposed to. Sometimes the decisions his top lieutenant's make aren't the right ones, or don't lead to winning it all. Then people start pulling on any thread they can find to unravel the whole cloth.

A former player, and NFLPA union rep. He holds a MBA and JD, and has experience as AD at two colleges, one small, one large. He's undoubtedly made mistakes, but the categorical assignment of blame to him when a Super Bowl's not in the offing says more about the makers than the target.

The hubris of people.

-6 points
10
16
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:23 am

Murphy was also a player and may, in fact, have CTE for all we know. The fact that Scooter LaFleur's coaching staff remains intact is quite an indictment - Dallas makes it to the playoffs and fires six coaches; , we go 8-9, lose a win-and-in game, and commit to all of our coaches for next season. SMH

6 points
8
2
dobber's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:10 am

Bottom line is that if you're going to hire an outside guy (which Murphy was) to be CEO, Chair, and President, Murphy is about as credentialed and experienced as you're going to find. He operated fairly well in his role until TT's decline and left football to the guys in football roles, and did his own overall oversight role.

The failing health of Thompson moved him further into football decisions. A fading roster and rising conflict between McCarthy and Rodgers gave him the opportunity to formally inject himself into the power structure. I can only guess that he saw that as "fixing things", although I'm unsure what exactly was broken that a competent GM couldn't mend.

With the change in power structure and emasculation of the GM, Murphy made himself a lightning rod. Prior to that, blame landed at the feet of the GM. The buck stops above Gute, now, and with Murphy--and he asked for it. He's made himself culpable for organizational failings in a way that Bob Harlan did not.

5 points
6
1
CHEESEHEADDALLAS's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:11 am

Then own them and fix them

-1 points
1
2
PackyCheese500's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:09 pm

I think LaFleur, not Murphy, is the biggest culprit

0 points
0
0
NJ-RICK's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:05 am

I guess that means you would give Biden a pass also on what's going on in our country. It all starts at the top my friend. Murphy represents the Packer Organization, he takes the good with the bad.

-7 points
11
18
Rarescope's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:35 am

“ I guess that means you would give Biden a pass also on what's going on in our country.”

Sorry, I’m not up to speed on political dog whistles. What is that code for these days?

4 points
5
1
Leatherhead's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:42 am

Actually, Rick, millions of people voted for this to happen, regardless of what you or I think about it.

1 points
3
2
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:44 am

If you want to talk politics, go to Acme Packing Company.

6 points
8
2
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:50 am

There’s a big enough and important enough target raised here in this screed of denial and apologism. Let’s not lose sight of that by getting lost in the weeds of broader, non-football issues.

6 points
7
1
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:57 am

I assume that you mis-replied?

1 points
2
1
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:36 am

Looks like it, I’m certainly echoing the plea that you made

0 points
1
1
Leatherhead's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:58 am

I kind of don't see it as politics; I see it as freedom to speak your mind. And I didn't express any partisan point of view, I simply stated a fact that is easily acknowledged. Millions of people voted for this. That's a fact.

-4 points
1
5
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 12:58 pm

Hey, I have nothing against freedom to speak one's mind, but whoever is doing that should be aware of the venue. This is a Packers' forum. We talk about Packers and football here. If I wanted to talk about politics, I'd go to a political site.

7 points
7
0
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:09 pm

Cookie for jurp! Thanks, Since '61

0 points
0
0
Packerpasty's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:56 am

Yah I can't wait for the lunatic fringe to take over...Drump & MTG...what a combo....a conman & an idiot..

2 points
4
2
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:13 pm

Reminds of a Greek drama I read a long time ago, "The Idiot and the Oddity." The US can't be that stupid again can we? Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:35 pm

NJ-Rick, since you asked for it,Here's a list of President's Biden accomplishments in his first 2 years in office:

Took big steps toward a future made in America
Since President Biden took office, he has been relentlessly focused on revitalizing American manufacturing.
The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law made investments to strengthen our supply chains and encourage companies to bring good-paying manufacturing jobs back home. Among other measures, the President strengthened Buy American rules to make sure more of what we buy in America is made in America. These critical steps towards a future made in America will lower costs at home and set us up to win the 21st century.
President Biden’s Made in America strategy resulted in the largest yearly increase in U.S. manufacturing jobs in nearly 30 years.

Signed the Inflation Reduction Act
Improved health care for veterans. - as a Vietnam Veteran this is my favorite
Signed the CHIPS and Science Act
Took historic action to address the gun violence epidemic
Restored American leadership on the world stage
Took action to address gender-based violence
Passed the American Rescue Plan
Biggest year of job growth in American history

Took action to combat COVID-19. Thanks to the Biden-Harris Administration, over three-quarters of American adults are fully vaccinated, up from less than 1% before President Biden took office.

Passed the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
In 2022 alone, repairs will begin on 65,000 miles of roads and 1,500 bridges.
President Biden’s Bipartisan Infrastructure Law will rebuild America’s critical infrastructure, create hundreds of thousands of good-paying jobs, and increase our competitiveness for years to come. This is the largest investment in America's infrastructure since the 1950's

Took action to combat the climate crisis and reduce emissions. President Biden also secured the largest investment in climate resilience in American history. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law invests billions to protect Americans from droughts, fires, and floods while moving America closer to our climate goals.
Expanded health care to millions of Americans

Took big steps toward a future made in America President Biden’s Made in America strategy resulted in the largest yearly increase in U.S. manufacturing jobs in nearly 30 years.

I'm guessing that you don't support rebuilding US infrastructure. Or saving our planet, which means saving all of us. Or ncreasing manufacturing jobs and thousands of other jobs in the US. Or in reducing inflation. Or in taking steps to pretect the American people from Covid-19. And of course why should we do anything to improve HealthCare for our veterans without whom we would not be able to do any of the above or CHTV. Yeah, let.s screw those "losers and suckers " (as the orange mutant loser called us) a few years back. Yeah let's just forget about them and their families. We don't need them any longer hey cost to much money. to support. Nice job NJ-Rick. So tell me what's wrong with any of this and why is it bad for our country. I won't hold my breath for your answer but since I'm a veteran I'm sure my health doesn't matter.

BTW these are just the items that I just recalled from the top of my head. If you a dozens more of Biden's accomplishments for the American people I can cover them all in another post at another site where political discussions belong. Bottom line is that Biden ( who I'm not a supporter of or the other orange thing, but I voted for Biden because we literaliy had no other choice) has accomplished more than any other US President for the American people since LBJs Great Society in the 60s. Enjoy. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
5
5
jannes bjornson's picture

January 30, 2023 at 06:09 pm

And let's include the PACT Act 2021 which is personal for him and many veteran's families, regarding Burn Pits. Now hear this: The PACT Act extended AO benefits to all veterans with SEA duty. This affects many USAF, Marines, Army and Navy veterans stationed in Thailand, Philippines, Guam or any flight line affecting the conflict. Gulf War, Afghanistan and Iraq Vets are very much affected by this beneficial legislation.

2 points
3
1
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:46 pm

Agree jannesbjornson - -- good point about the Pact Act 2021. More much need legislation to help our veterans.
My post was off the top of my head so I'm sure that I missed a number other important legislation and exec. orders that Biden has passed to support the American people. Thanks, Since '61

-1 points
0
1
Bitternotsour's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:26 pm

That sir, is a remarkable list. I'm glad you survived the war experience. That time in America was no picnic, and so many went to fight with no other option (we had a draft, unless you had a rich daddy with access to a doctor who could claim you had bone spurs) you got signed up and shipped out. I came of age the year after the draft ended. I major relief.

I'm glad you made it this far - i have two 79 year old neighbors who served in the suck, and both are delightful drinking company. Carry on, you deserve big plaudits for making it back alive and for continuing to kick it. Thanks sir, I'd buy you a drink if you were close by.

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:02 pm

Thank you for your generous comment Bitternotsour. I was not drafted, I volunteered. Then I volunteered for the medics and then I was very fortunate to make it back. I appreciate the offer and I'd be proud to have a drink with you if we were closer.
Stay well. Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

January 31, 2023 at 03:09 am

5 up
5 down

Quite predictable.

3 points
3
0
T7Steve's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:20 am

Remake the power structure by creating no real power structure. Sounds like just what the NFC North needed the Packers to do. Is Murphy form Chicago?

1 points
5
4
Handsback's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:21 am

Ken, I'm sorry but don't buy your argument about Murphy.
As many have already mentioned above, you develop a management structure that provides a clear understanding of responsibilities. Outside of Dallas where the GM is also the owner...Green Bay's structure goes against all the other teams in the NFL. If Green Bay had won a Lombardi trophy during those three years of 13-3 records then you have a point. But they didn't and I believe the management structure will only add to the teams downward spiral.
Just MHO

11 points
13
2
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:26 am

If you strip all of it back, look at what Murphy has done from a football and from the perspective of the impact on the checks and balances instituted by Harlen, then he is to blame. He is behind LaFleur, behind Silos and the ridiculous cap position compounded by the incredible handover of control to a player. Even the Titletown district is a credit too early to make in terms of its long term benefit.

Sorry, this piece is not only wrong, but pernicious. Mark Murphy mishandled Favre with his media contract, mishandled Thompson, tried to install Ball, made himself GM in reality, installed a coach who is visibly out of his depth on all levels, oversaw the mortgaging of the future and current cap paralysis, removed the independent oversight on performance within the organization and handed unprecedented control to a player nudging 40 with a roster not remotely built for him,

This piece is so wrong, such an example of unaware and uncritical deference in the face of facts that I’d have to think twice about taking the author seriously in future. Shame on your critical faculties. Yes, Mark Murphy is indeed the driver of damage both to the football side and fiduciary management of a public institution. I had to look twice to see if this was a paid piece, so wrong Is it.

14 points
19
5
Johnblood27's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:41 am

ummm...

YES!!!

5 points
6
1
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:52 am

Oh yeah, this article is way up there on the Bonkers Scale - probably a 10.

One reason for CEOs to create/encourage a silo'd organization is to insulate themselves from the consequences of their actions - or inaction. If Rodgers isn't traded and doesn't retire, then Murphy can lay the financial ramifications at the feet of Ba'al and Gutekunst and any performance ramifications at the feet of Scooter LaFuckup. At that point, he can throw them under the bus and retire in glory and adulation. I've seen this happen in real-life...

10 points
12
2
Bitternotsour's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:01 am

Bitter, party of one. Your table is ready.

-3 points
1
4
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:00 pm

Bitter? It's reality, man. A CEO never trashed me, but I was backstabbed once by another low-grade exec; in hindsight I should've seen it coming. Got a 28% bonus and 8 weeks' severance out of it, so no big deal.

3 points
4
1
Bitternotsour's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:30 pm

please refer to my screen name. I was commenting on your having set the table for me. i realize subtlety is not a keyword on a message board, but I was referring to me. Bitter, not sour.

1 points
1
0
jurp's picture

January 31, 2023 at 06:11 am

Ah, all is explained...

1 points
1
0
gmeyers1's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:28 am

You seem to be saying that, the rogers decision was based on the job security of Ball & or Gutekunst. ie, they wouldn't survive a rebuild. And Murphy wasn't involved, because he's not tied to the same issue.

-3 points
3
6
Johnblood27's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:43 am

wouldn't survive a rebuild? really?

They would be the architects of the rebuild.

They would be essential to keep in place throughout the rebuild.

They would definitely survive a rebuild and be critical for it. They wouyld then sink or swim based upon their abilities to do their jobs and do them well, or AT THAT POINT they would survive... or not... the rebuild.

A perfectly sound and acceptable measurement of their abilities to do their jobs well.

What a stoopid argument to make...

-1 points
3
4
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:47 am

I read his comment as boiling down the authors’ gist and as said with incredulity at it rather than in support.

6 points
7
1
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:53 am

Same here.

1 points
1
0
T7Steve's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:46 am

Do you think he did this just for these reactions? What other reason would there be to exonerate the boss of all responsibility? Maybe a position on the board or season tickets?

3 points
3
0
gmeyers1's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:05 am

That's where I was coming from.

1 points
1
0
Bboying2k's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:02 am

Without an owner, MM is ultimately responsible for holding those that work under him accountable. All most Packer fans including myself ask is that he does so. If I was not performing well in my job, I would need to make changes or be replaced. It happens all the time in the corporate world. As a manager, I am "evaluated" by my team's performance.

7 points
8
1
dobber's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:18 am

I think you hit on an important point, in that by moving himself into football operations in the way that he has, the success of the team is even more a reflection on his own competence than it was on Bob Harlan. Others have used the word "hubris" in this point--that he decided he was the only one to fix this by expanding the role of team Pres. But, as you say, the buck stops with him, now...is there anyone to hold HIM accountable?

6 points
6
0
Bitternotsour's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:26 pm

Only a rubber stamp and otherwise compliant board. Gotta hand it to him, he saw the opening and he pounced. Unfortunately, he's an idiot at Football Operations.

2 points
2
0
LeotisHarris's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:09 am

Regardless of where we want to lay the most blame, Murphy is ultimately responsible. Coldworld and Since61 have delineated "well, how did we get here?" time and time again in thoughtful, well-reasoned posts. I agree with their assessments.

The Packers management dysfunction is surrounded by the illusion of success. Lambeau is impressive. The Titletown District is impressive. The management team looks the part, and goes through the motions, but something is off, and that all leads back to Mark Murphy.

There's the old story of the little boy out in the field with his bow and arrow, shooting arrows high into the sky. As his father approaches, he says "daddy, look how high I can shoot!" Dad replies, "that's great son, but what are you aiming for?" Look at the sledding hill! There are weddings booked out until 2099 in the Atrium! Did you see the bathroom fixtures at Lodge Kohler? The Verizon Gate is going to be the Kwik Trip Gate! Look how high we can shoot!

10 points
11
1
Leatherhead's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:13 am

Leotis, we are in disagreement here.

I don't see this as "Packers management dysfunction surrounded by the illusion of success". Quite the opposite, frankly.

Let's rewind to the end of Ted Thompson's steerage. Candidates were considered and Gutekunst was selected to be the GM of Personnel. I'm certain that a key question in the interviews was "How do we transition to the post Rodgers era?, and obviously, the winning answer was "We'll ride him hard and get another guy ready".

So, he's started 65 or so games since then, and he won two MVPs. So that part of the plan worked. It worked well. The second part of the plan is getting another guy ready, and they traded up in the first to get Jordan Love. He's been growing, learning, developing, and practicing under the watchful eyes of experts, and in the opinion of the GM, he's ready.

If we trade Rodgers for some draft picks (and it's looking like it might happen), and if Love comes in and plays well (as I think will happen), then how is this anything except a triumph?

-4 points
2
6
T7Steve's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:54 am

LH, success in Title Town is winning a Super Bowl. Anything else is a losing season and failure. They don't give "nice try" awards.

7 points
9
2
13TimeChamps's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:39 am

Green Bay has been in the NFL for over 100 seasons, winning 13 championships, more than any other team. By your reasoning, the other 90 or so seasons have been failures, which would make the Green Bay Packers an utterly failed organization.

Is every movie that doesn't win the Academy Award a failed movie? That is such a myopic view. Try and understand how difficult it is to win Super Bowls.

0 points
3
3
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:15 pm

It’s a question of context. What is the goal? I’d the team aiming to get there in a plausible manner, at times that may not be realistic in any given year and others are trying the same. It’s about whether or not you want to win or have a lesser objective and if you do, whether your efforts stand up to reasonable doubt and support a reasonable belief that we are heading in the right direction.

2 points
3
1
13TimeChamps's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:46 pm

"It’s about whether or not you want to win or have a lesser objective"

Huh?

0 points
3
3
T7Steve's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:22 pm

You may not be the best, but it shouldn't be for lack of trying. If you accept less than a championship, you will NEVER be a champion. NEVER!

3 points
4
1
13TimeChamps's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:39 pm

Who says they're not trying?

So if Philly loses to KC in this years Super Bowl, that means they ACCEPTED less than a championship? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

They'll play their asses off and hopefully win. If not, it doesn't mean they didn't try or that they accepted anything. It just means the best team on that particular day won the game.

-2 points
1
3
T7Steve's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:09 pm

You're saying they should just be happy they made it there and not try to improve? You believe they'll think they were successful? They didn't make it twice in the last five years thinking they were doing "ok". They cleaned house after the 17' team quit preforming and rebuilt. Guess they didn't want to wait another ten years or so. Do I think we need a total rebuild? No. We need to rebuild our expectations and goals. Will the Chiefs be happy cause they just hosted their 5th AFC Championship? No. They won't be satisfied till they WIN a championship.

2 points
4
2
PackyCheese500's picture

January 30, 2023 at 06:38 pm

Agreed Fully, T7Steve!

-1 points
0
1
Leatherhead's picture

January 30, 2023 at 12:08 pm

No Steve. Winning the Division is success, because it gets you into the playoffs with the first game at home. That's all you can control.

-4 points
2
6
T7Steve's picture

January 30, 2023 at 12:24 pm

Winning the championship is the ONLY way a franchise can look at it or they won't be a success. Maybe that's why we've only been winning the division lately. A team needs to remember they lost the last game they played. They just didn't do "ok". Teams have all sorts of control of the results. The only thing they can't control is health. They can control depth to make up for bad health.

6 points
6
0
13TimeChamps's picture

January 30, 2023 at 06:31 pm

I have a question for you. Mike Holmgren...is he a successful NFL HC or a failure? He was a HC for 17 years. Amassed a 161-111 regular season record and a 13-11 playoff record. He went to 3 Super Bowls with 2 different teams, winning 1 and losing 2. He failed to win a Super Bowl in 16 of his 17 seasons as a HC. A successful HC or a failed HC? How about Sean Payton...the current genius HC du jour with his ONE SB. He failed to win a Super Bowl, or even appear in one, in 14 of his 15 years as a HC. Andy Reid, one ring in 24 years as a HC.

I could go on and on, but what's the point? It's hard to win Super Bowls.

1 points
1
0
T7Steve's picture

January 31, 2023 at 07:15 am

Why aren't you comparing to Lombardi or Billacheck? Think they would or would have been happy at 1-16? "Winning isn't the most important thing. Winning is the only thing!" or some such quote. Do you really think Holmgren and Payton are happy to have won only one?

1 points
1
0
13TimeChamps's picture

January 31, 2023 at 10:03 am

This will be my last response on this topic because it's obviously not going anywhere. You're so stuck on "proving your point" that you won't even listen to reason of any kind.

I've never said coaches and/or players should be happy to not go all the way and win the Super Bowl on any given year. I'm saying it's unrealistic to think it's going to happen every year. Only one team wins it every year. When is the last time there have been back to back SB winners? That, in itself, should illustrate how difficult it is. I'll say it again "It's hard to win Super Bowls"

All you can do is put in the work and do the best you possibly can. These players put their blood and guts out on that field every week. To have some "fan" sitting at home refer to them as losers because they came up one or two games short because the team across from them happened to be better than them that year is pretty gutless in my opinion.

Houston won 3 games last year. This coming year they will have a new coaching staff and probably a new QB. If they manage to win 9 or 10 games this year and get bounced out of the playoffs in the wild card round, of course they're not going be happy they lost that game, but it will have been a successful season and something to build on for the future. I'm sure you'll disagree with that, which is why it's pointless to continue this conversation any further.

Have a good day.

1 points
1
0
T7Steve's picture

January 31, 2023 at 10:49 am

Sorry. Just trying to understand and must be slow.

We're talking the mindset of the owners and front office and coaches.

How else do you become 13TimeChamps?

0 points
0
0
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:55 pm

That's why all the players get rings when they win the division... oh, wait.

5 points
5
0
LeotisHarris's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:49 pm

LH, my friend, we do disagree on this one, and you certainly could be correct in your view.

If we rewind only to when TT left, we need to overlook a period of time when Mark Murphy should have been proactive in replacing Ted when his faculties were failing. There's carnage there in terms of wasted draft picks, and inaction to make the team better via trade or free agency. Remember, we like our guys?

I don't know if Gute was the best hire from the group of candidates. His rise to the top is typical of so many average white men with family connections. Do you go from middling linebacker at UW-LaCrosse to GM of the Packers in a couple of skips and a jump? I guess you do. You often cite the prowess of our scouting and personnel departments. I honestly have no idea who's left from the successful Wolf Era after all the raiding and departures; Schneider first, Reggie McKenzie, Eliot Wolf, John Dorsey, Alonzo Highsmith, and more. Who was hired to fill those holes? We snatched Milt from the Ravens, and that seemed to be a solid choice.

It would be interesting to know what was discussed at those GM interviews. I don't feel that the Packers current state is the result of a plan on the verge of coming to fruition. It's pretty clear to me the A-Rod-tail has been wagging the GBP dog since poor ol' McMumbles was shown the door (at least a seasons too late!).

So, I don't know. I suspect nothing nefarious from Murphy, that's just silly; you know. "oh they're all just laughing their assess off because they know fans will still show up." I think if we trade 12 for picks and players, and Love comes in and plays well, we'll be able to see if LaFleur can cut it as a HC, or if it has all been the illusion of competence. AS of now, I think he was a bad hire, and that has snowballed down the coaching ranks due to his inability to hire the right people.

I do think LaFleur has an opportunity to bolster the D with a wise hire to replace Jerry Gray. Will he promote from within?

4 points
6
2
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:57 pm

LaFleur and his "illusion of competence".

I almost spit my beer on my laptop. Box of cookies for you!

4 points
5
1
CheesedDeadHead's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:23 am

This article is perfect evidence that 'you get what you pay for'.

7 points
8
1
HarryHodag's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:40 am

Careful, Ken. The 'fire everybody' crowd is coming for you. Their solution to making everything better, to them, is to fire everybody if the Packers don't win the Super Bowl undefeated with scores of at least 50-0. Everything falls back on the CEO, they claim.
Instead of realizing that the Packers have had a momentous run of more than 30 years of mostly winning football, they dwell on one mediocre season out of 4 for Gute and MLF. Of course, to them, Murphy sat up at night thinking of ways to screw it up.
Instead of seeing a franchise in a city that is much smaller than Milwaukee still competing against the giant cities, they see a failing franchise because the Packers won't win the Super Bowl 50-0. That ignores, of course, that Lambeau Field is now considered a shrine of the NFL and they have reinvested millions of dollars into Green Bay and Wisconsin. To them, Mark Murphy had nothing to do with that. To these 'wise' folks he ruined the organization by allowing a coach, GM, and money manager the freedom to stay around and keep a winning set of players who admittedly under performed.
The 'fire everybody' crowd would have fired everyone by now, including the Board of Directors and replaced them with shirtless ooffs guzzling beer. They would hire Urban Meyer to be the CEO, hire two Hollywood comedians as the coach and GM, and Sally from the convenience store to be the money manager.
They were shocked to find out that there weren't any Super Bowl winning coaches and players in the Lambeau Field parking lot just waiting for them to fire everybody.

I'm going to take a great deal of pride in the 'thumbs down' I get from this post because everyone of them means there still needs a lot of education to be done among the Packers 'faithful'.

-4 points
6
10
MainePackFan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:02 am

For what it's worth, you got a thumbs from me HarryHodag :)

-2 points
1
3
13TimeChamps's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:42 am

Me too!

0 points
1
1
Bitternotsour's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:08 am

I'm not a member of the "fire everyone" crowd. I'm a member of the Murphy has no business in football operations crowd. The GM should be running football. Not a real estate lawyer/bean counter/corporate yes man.

The Thompson structure should be reinstated. If Russ Ball doesn't like it, then he can move on down the road. The Head Coach should be hired by the GM. The GM should dictate which players are signed and how the cap should be managed. The Cap-ologist should work in deference to the GM. That's how it worked, that's how it should be working today.

The Rodgers deal is enough - that should get Murphy fired on it's own.

10 points
10
0
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:11 am

Fair position, though correcting it and its consequences may lead to a similar end result.

2 points
2
0
Untylu1968's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:12 am

I hope you had a mic to drop after that! Well said, and it's funny to see how people lose their minds, when the waters get a little choppy.

1 points
2
1
Leatherhead's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:19 am

"""......... they see a failing franchise because the Packers won't win the Super Bowl 50-0."""

Yup. Burning things down is always easier than building them. The Packers are one of the most successful organizations in the NFL. We put a playoff quality team on the field pretty much every year. We've had three decades of HOF quarterbacking, with all the division titles and playoff games that go with it. There's no need to start over.

-3 points
3
6
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:12 am

Time and tide wait for no man. Try disproving it, but take a life belt.

2 points
2
0
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:58 pm

"We put a playoff quality team on the field pretty much every year. We've had three decades of HOF quarterbacking, with all the division titles and playoff games that go with it. "

Past performance is no guarantee of future results. How to be a Wealth Manager 101.

4 points
5
1
SinceLombardi's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:34 am

So you would include blowing back to back #1 seeds as two of the successful seasons under MLF? Especially when they followed a 13-3 season?

3 points
5
2
EnemyTerritory's picture

January 30, 2023 at 12:02 pm

I’m of mixed minds on what to do here with the evaluation of Murphy but blowing two number one seeds seems to be less an indictment of the GM than of the team on the field. Getting to 13-3 requires some skill/credit to the Front Office. Losing the games points to field or play deficiencies. Against Tampa the QB/offense did nothing with multiple interceptions. Against SF2 it did little to put points on the board. Against SF1 the defense couldn’t stop anyone…

The team is at a crossroads, the second time in thirty years. The fan base in Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, Saint Louis (sic), Phoenix, Houston, Atlanta, and others have to be shaking their heads at the so called apocalypse in GB…. That’s my comment for the day. Heading off to the rest of the interweb to look at the pictures of all those Lombardi in the aforementioned towns. Especially love the US Bank trophy case…

-2 points
1
3
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 03:00 pm

Losing two number one seeds is on Scooter (and by extension, the coaching staff and the players), not on the GM. Remember, Gutekunst has no power of LaFuckup, and he had to have drafted well enough, and signed good FAs, for us to have had the players needed to GET those number one seeds.

4 points
5
1
Duneslick's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:20 pm

So everyone that does not believe as you do needs to be re educated. Sound familiar packer fans

4 points
4
0
LeotisHarris's picture

January 30, 2023 at 03:31 pm

"Instead of seeing a franchise in a city that is much smaller than Milwaukee still competing against the giant cities..."

Because of ...(drumroll).... SOCIALISM! The NFL hates the troops, the one true Almighty Gawd, and America! Their wicked equal sharing of the billions in Tee Vee revenue equally among the all 32 teams allows this abomination to continue to undermine what made this country great. May the flames of Hell continue to lap at the suffering soul of Pete Rozelle for all eternity.

5 points
7
2
HarryHodag's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:41 am

Delete

1 points
1
0
Swisch's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:43 am

Still wondering why it isn't crazy to have a contract with a player (Rodgers) that pays him huge money even if he retires? Please help me to understand.
***
In general, shouldn't we as fans know who is responsible for the latest contract for Aaron Rodgers.
Love the move, hate the move, it's a huge move regardless. There should be accountability, literally and figuratively.
If no one in the Packers front office is standing up to take the credit, or take the blame, for the Rodgers contract, doesn't that strongly indicate that the management structure of the Packers is highly flawed?
Is there an inscrutability that should trouble those of us who care about the Packers?
Shouldn't we know who among those in charge is doing what?
I'm glad for feedback on this.

0 points
4
4
MainePackFan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:17 am

Swisch, if Rodgers retires this year, he would forfeit 59.5M. I believe the Packers would only be on the cap hit hook for the prorated signing bonus.

I think we can assume that Murphy, Ball and Gute were all involved in the decision to keep Rodgers.

1 points
3
2
Swisch's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:21 pm

Okay, Maine, but what was the signing bonus, and how much is left to be paid to Rodgers?
Also, it's not how much Rodgers forfeits if retires, but how much he gets to keep even though he's not playing football.
The contract to Rodgers was so humongous that even a part of it is still huge.
Also, I do wonder if Gute was on board with this latest contract to Rodgers, or not, even if to some extent he has to go along with it.
In any case, I appreciate your reply, Maine.

0 points
2
2
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 05:40 pm

A little under 41 million was signing bonus

That’s already dead cap and in addition to the 59 million guaranteed to be paid to him this year (although the cap hit for that can be partially deferred through options unless he’s cut). He gets it whether he plays or not and for whomever unless he agrees to renegotiate. However, an acquiring team takes only some of the cap hit on, reducing the amount over the signing bonus to some extent. TGR went into this in detail if you look for his recent piece here.

1 points
1
0
Swisch's picture

January 30, 2023 at 05:58 pm

Thanks much, Coldworld, for distilling it into a paragraph.
To me, it all seems so nutty, and ultimately amounts to paying Rodgers a king's ransom if he decides to retire, paying for not playing.

0 points
2
2
MainePackFan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 06:53 pm

His signing bonus was 40.8M. He was paid 42M last year. 1.15M salary plus 50K workout bonus in addition to the 40.8M signing bonus. If Rodgers walks away he is paid in full.

The problem isn't what they owe Rodgers if he retires. It's the prorated money from the signing bonus that creates the Salary Cap issues. Even though AR was paid 40.8M, the Packers only applied part of that to the SC. The balance becomes due in the form of a dead cap hit if he retires. The more I read about the NFL Salary Cap, the more I realize what a clusterf**k joke it is.

I highly doubt Rodgers retires this year, so it's a moot point. Think about it. The fully guaranteed amount is $101.5M over 2 years. If you were serious about retiring after 1 year, would you allow your contract to be structured in a way that paid you the least amount of money in the first year?

I have little doubt in my mind that Gute was fully onboard. If Rodgers was traded and Love didn't produce, who stands to lose more than Gute? The "blame it on Murphy narrative", in my mind, is nonsense.

When they had to make a decision on Rodgers, they weren't completely sold on Love. They were coming off a 13-4 season. Hindsight being 20/20, had they known this team would finish 8-9, that might have been a different decision.

It's easy to say "dump Rodgers" for the CHTV crew. Not so easy if your living depends on the decision you make :)

As always, I appreciate your feedback Swisch.

0 points
1
1
Leatherhead's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:26 am

Swisch, I believe in Favre's case, after his hostilities towards the team, an amicable resolution was made because it was good for the organization....marketing, or something.

So Rodgers, who has been an excellent QB for us for quite a while, gets a golden parachute in exchange for him not pulling a Favre and trashing the organization on the way out the door. Doesn't bother me.

If we hadn't signed him, we wouldn't be trading him. Part of that money was to get us those draft picks, so that has to be factored in, too.

It's a bad, short term hit that will be largely offset by the fact that our starting QB isn't going to be making very much. There is no inscrutability. We're going to trade Rodgers for picks and Love is going to be a good QB for us. That's a win/win.

-4 points
1
5
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:06 pm

He trashed the organization pretty well pre-draft in 2021 and got rewarded for it. Not sure that a ton of money will now prevent him from trashing it again, should he choose to.

4 points
6
2
croatpackfan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 04:55 pm

I agre, the only difference between Brett Favre and ACR is that they trashed prganization at different moments of their career. Brett did it at the end and ACR did near the end...

2 points
2
0
MainePackFan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:27 pm

One could point out there are other differences Croat. As far as we know, Rodgers didn't send pictures of his talliwhacker to someone not seeking information on his talliwhacker.

As far as we know AR hasn't been sued for questionable involvement in welfare money being paid to him for public appearances.

As far as we know, AR's drug problems have been limited to offseason trips to Peru or wherever it was.

Don't get me wrong, I love Brett Favre, but in my opinion, his "Packer Sins" far outweigh anything Rodgers has done.

2 points
3
1
Rarescope's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:02 pm

Maine beat me to it. You’re welcome to your opinion of ARod but Favre is a whole nother level of douche.

2 points
2
0
Rarescope's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:32 am

"In general, shouldn't we as fans know who is responsible for the latest contract for Aaron Rodgers....
...Shouldn't we know who among those in charge is doing what?
I'm glad for feedback on this."

Slow day at work so I'll bite. I try to follow the teachings of Buddhism and the Tao more than the "I'm owed something" attitude that is prevalent in our fair country. Thus, no, I don't think we are owed any explanations whatsoever. Our responsibility, as fans, is to enjoy watching the game of football as it is being played with the players on the team with the contracts that are in place etc. That is our role, and if we are focused on things outside that... we create suffering for ourselves. My suspicion is that casual NFL fans get that at some level, and it is the fanatic minority on websites like this one that like to play armchair GM that are getting upset about whatever. We can't change the past, we're not in charge of much of anything outside of our own minds, so idk... just relax and try to enjoy life?

/End Feedback
Initiate: Go Pack Go

5 points
6
1
jannes bjornson's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:11 am

The sound of one Fan clapping....

5 points
5
0
MainePackFan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:38 am

Words of wisdom that were perfectly expressed Rarescope. Thumbs up. GPG!!

0 points
2
2
Swisch's picture

January 30, 2023 at 12:05 pm

Rarescope, a genuine thanks to you and others for your replies.
***
As to your comment, I'm wondering why we come here to CHTV if our only role as fans is to casually accept whatever is done by the Packers executives and coaches, and to just enjoy the games on the field with no thought as to whether the team could be better or not?
***
Also, I think most of us come here to CHTV because talking about the Packers helps us to relax and enjoy life.
Admittedly, I can get carried away rather easily when it comes to the Packers and other good things in life -- but generally the solution is to take a step or two back and some deep breaths, not to give up my interests altogether.
***
Without the fans, there is no NFL, is there?

3 points
4
1
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 12:27 pm

Without critical faculties there is peace of mind until that which you turned a blithe blind eye to comes to take away life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Ignorance is bliss but perilous.

1 points
5
4
Rarescope's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:30 pm

Nothing wrong with critical thinking, as long as you go back to washing your bowl once you recognize that you have no control over the thing you are critically thinking about.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

January 31, 2023 at 07:41 am

The no control argument always baffles me on boards like this. Of course we have no control. We don’t come here for control but to discuss something we care about. If control were the threshold for a comment being made there’s be none. As a riposte, that seems existentially as barren as can be.

It’s also a mindset that has played a big factor in most collective evils in history. Moreover, organizations do monitor chatter, I know that for certain. They look for the tenor of general perceptions not individual insights, but they look.

1 points
1
0
Rarescope's picture

January 31, 2023 at 10:21 am

Nothing wrong with discussing CW. I love seeing Leatherhead debate the benefits of not returning punts, reading about pros and cons of various draft prospects, how we can free up some cap space etc. It's the people who just come here to complain about the same thing every day that gets tiresome but I guess that's my cross to bear. I know who the regulars are around here and enjoy reading the actual discussions - like this one right here ;)

PS: Read through the next few or previous comments and you will see someone saying that they think they have a legal right to information on how the Packers are ran so that they can... idk, exercise some control over the Packers organization via an annual pep rally disguised as a shareholders meeting or letters to Murphy, the board of directors or something...

0 points
0
0
Rarescope's picture

January 30, 2023 at 06:47 pm

Hey Swisch, thanks to you and others who appreciated my comment - I wasn’t sure how it would be received. I come here to learn about football and ive learned a lot these past few years. Before I came here I knew the qb threw the ball, the running back ran with it, and the fat guys were linemen of some sort. Now I know the difference between free and strong safety, salary cap implications, how the draft works etc. I like learning more about one of the few things I still enjoy after becoming disillusioned with the world. I don’t come here to piss and moan about what management etc should be doing. Some days it feels like that’s all anyone is doing but there are always a few stalwarts here having a serious conversation (and I just skip the qb articles now and will until there is real news)

1 points
1
0
greengold's picture

January 30, 2023 at 04:01 pm

Snatch the pebble from my hand, you freaking Kung-Fu fanatic!!! Laugh, Rarescope. Laugh.

I quoted both Caddyshack and Blazing Saddles, in the hopes that more could enjoy this topic further. Scroll on down.

No, it wasn't: "Double or nothing he eats it!"

These are the times that try men's souls. — Vince Lombardi, or possibly Thomas Paine.

-1 points
1
2
Rarescope's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:32 pm

Lol thanks greengold, I usually enjoy your posts :D

1 points
1
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:07 pm

I enjoyed the dash of zen and dollop of philosophy Rarescope - except it does not fully apply in this case - as unlike any other team in the NFL - the Packers are a wholly community/publicly-owned team. That being so, the community, especially the stockholders have a legal right to any or all pertinent information. To ignore or look the other way on how the franchise does business or conducts itself would be gross negligence.

2 points
2
0
Rarescope's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:35 pm

I hear ya. And there is an annual stockholders meeting I hear for those with vested interests to vote on… things. I will plead ignorance as to what those votes are for or how the annual shareholders meeting goes but I think people would be talking about it a lot more if they were making such weighty decisions such as who is in charge. Would love to hear more about it from someone who has actually attended one.

1 points
1
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:01 pm

Living in Calgary - I have also never attended the annual shareholders meeting. However coming from an investment and sports management background - I can tell you that the meeting looks to be relatively cosmetic - with a very diluted agenda. And this would be by design from management. If I remember correctly, the meeting is held late in July - well after all the off-season heavy lifting by management - with the end of season being a distant memory for many fans. In short, very machiavellian.

0 points
0
0
greengold's picture

January 31, 2023 at 09:26 am

Oh, I've been to a few of them and vote. There's nothing special to any Stockholder's Meeting you haven't already seen in a High School Pep Rally.

I bought my share in 1997 after their first offering in decades, basking in the Super Bowl XXXI Championship light.

A lifetime of fanaticism for our Green & Gold. Hell yeah, I'll call out the missteps we've witnessed throughout, and celebrate the achievements in like fashion. The problems at hand currently and for over a decade are no straight line. Far from it. A lot of moving pieces, and hopefully some of those fall off our board... if you catch my drift...?

Rock ON, Rarescope. Know you're appreciated. Wish you could see some of the many Buddhas I've painted. Man, those are cool, and I can't keep them on the wall. Going to start another one today, in your honor, and because the studio needs that great energy. Again. Cheers!

0 points
0
0
Rarescope's picture

January 31, 2023 at 10:14 am

Wowza, you even changed your avatar! I think we need a link to your artwork.

1 points
1
0
Rarescope's picture

January 31, 2023 at 10:17 am

Alberta_Packer: "That being so, the community, especially the stockholders have a legal right to any or all pertinent information."

It was late last night when I was posting so I missed this, but I believe you are confusing the donations in exchange for fancy pieces of paper that the Packers get with shares issued by actual publicly traded companies which are regulated by the SEC. It's your prerogative to feel entitled to insider information if you make a donation to the Packers in exchange for a fancy piece of paper, but the legal system is not at all in the picture when it comes to those feelings.

0 points
0
0
SinceLombardi's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:27 am

Making Rodgers the highest paid player in history is not a nuts and bolts issue. Neither is leaving Rodgers with a less than adequate receiving corps after paying him.
He is responsible for the present mess. Bob Harlan got credit for bringing in Ron Wolf and company, so Murphy has culpability in the present scenario.
I don’t know if he had to rubber stamp moving up for Love, but if he did then he really helped screw the organization up because it led to Rodgers $200 million.

8 points
9
1
Tekraut17's picture

January 30, 2023 at 03:17 pm

Leaving Rodgers with a less than adequate receiving corps I believe had a lot to do with Adams DECIDING to leave GB in favor of LV which the FO had no control over as they made an offer that was as good or better than LV did. If DA is still on the team in 2023 our receiving corps would have been touted as one of the best in the NFL IMHO but things happen out of our control and you have to make the most of it..

-3 points
0
3
BirdDogUni's picture

January 30, 2023 at 10:53 am

"The Lass Word: Murphy Is Not the Problem"

Yes, yes he is. He is responsible for everything that goes on in GB and when it goes bad, he's also responsible.

12 points
12
0
Tekraut17's picture

January 30, 2023 at 03:24 pm

OK and does he get the credit when things go right? If so we as fans should be touting his successes as GB has the 2nd best winning percentage of ALL NFL teams since MM was put in charge. We are only behind NE and way ahead of Chicago, Minnesota and Detroit...so I'm of the belief that we should cut the guy some slack for having an off year.

-5 points
0
5
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 03:42 pm

Strange, I thought that we had Favre and Rodgers. It was Murohy? Are you perchance related?

4 points
5
1
Tekraut17's picture

January 31, 2023 at 09:31 am

Well using your logic we had AR this year why didn't we win the Superbowl? Or last year? Or....everyone that has a good/great QB should clear out their management too as they didn't win a Superbowl every year...unrealistic expectation as there are 32 teams getting paid to do the same thing.

0 points
0
0
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 05:37 pm

Yeah, I remember those raucous celebrations in Lambeau when they unveiled the "Second Best Winning Percentage" years on the Ring of Honor. Oh wait, you mean having top winning percentages doesn't matter at all in the NFL? And Super Bowl victories do? How strange...

2 points
3
1
Rarescope's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:37 pm

Only if you think they do.

0 points
0
0
MainePackFan's picture

January 31, 2023 at 11:28 am

To be fair CW...

Named Packers President/CEO on Dec. 3, 2007, by the Packers' Board of Directors; formally assumed position on Jan. 28, 2008.

Favre was gone shortly after that.

Tekraut17's statement is true, whether we want to attribute that to Murphy's leadership is certainly up for debate.

-1 points
0
1
pantz_bURp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:01 am

Even with some current angst and concern... this right here brought a smile to my face:

"America’s only major league publicly owned team will remain in Green Bay for generations to come."

Things will play themselves out. In the meantime, I am going to grab that Rumi book and treat myself to a nice walk in the woods. I might even splurge and smoke a Cuban-esque Swisher Sweets cigar (wooden-tipped, of course) and a can of Blind Robins. The 6-pack of Schaefer beer will be waiting at it's optimal temperature.

Hell yeah, life is good.

3 points
4
1
Rarescope's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:39 pm

I’ll take some of what you’re smoking /no kid

0 points
0
0
pantz_bURp's picture

January 31, 2023 at 11:02 am

Got any old Nat Geo magazines for trade? :D

0 points
0
0
Jgilmor08's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:07 am

It’s clear the process hasn’t been effective. Take the example of Gutekunsts many strike outs in the draft and contract negotiations. Striking out isn’t the end of the world if you are hitting home runs, the two go hand in hand. However the home runs have been few and far between. There should be accountability for that.

The HC falling in love with certain coaches and sticking with them too long. It took 12 games for the Packers defense to become more effective. What was one of the changes? Letting Jaire shadow the teams top receiver. This point was mentioned in WEEK 1 after Justin Jefferson went off. It took three months before an adjustment was implemented. This is the very definition of poor operations. The NFL is results driven and they aren’t even noticeable when considering damn near the entire starting 11 are first rounders, the production should’ve been higher.

Drafting a first round QB while signing starting QB to highest per season contract in nfl history along with drafting a second round RB only to sign starter to highest per season contract of any nfl rb. Both of those alone are a combined 8 years worth of playing as back ups for a first and second round pick. That’s awful

There’s no accountability. People should have concerns that if they aren’t doing the job well they could and should be gone.

2 points
4
2
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:13 pm

I disagree that we've had more misses and fewer HRs in the draft than other teams. Ba'al is responsible for contract negotiations, not Gutekunst. Murphy is in charge of Scooter, so if the defense didn't change for three weeks that's on MLF (and Murphy, if you want to blame him).

Ultimately, there's no accountability because we really don't know whom to blame for what.

3 points
4
1
Jgilmor08's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:35 pm

The point about draft picks more specifically, more home runs than misses is wildly incorrect.
Gary, Jenkins, Jaire, Stokes, Runyan are the drafted starters since 2018 from Gutekunst. Savage isn’t in that equation due to him being benched and pretty inconsistent to say the least.

Misses: Josh Jackson 2nd, Oren Burks 3rd, Jmon Moore 4th, Cole Madison 5th, JK Scott 5th, Sternberger 3rd, Myers 2nd, Savage 1st, Amari Rodgers 3rd, Newman 4th, Deguara 3rd and technically Love since the entire benefit of a rookie QB is the contract he plays under which is no longer a beneficial factor. Even if re signed for cheap Rodgers contract will nullify all those benefits from salary cap carry over.

Out of 37 players draft over the past 4 off seasons only 48% still remain in the league including 5 players from 2018 to 2019 still in the NFL.

Just because an executives job is to negotiate contracts they all must be signed off on by the GM. If you think Russ Ball has the autonomy to negotiate contracts without communication or questions from the general manager then you are mistaken. His job is to weave through the minute details of the process and look for loop holes and ways to minimize cap hits not negotiate exclusively by himself.

But back to the main point, it’s the fact the coordinator hasn’t been fired that’s showing evidence this system isn’t effectively working.

1 points
2
1
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:59 pm

Again, Gute does not have authority to negotiate contracts. That rests with Ball not with Gute. Murphy made that very clear at the time he reorganized the organization and has restated Ball’s role and importance since. Gute also has no say on coaches, which a GM should have. His job is to draft and decide the 53, as expressly described by Murphy.

2 points
3
1
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 03:10 pm

This should be in an article as a screen cap. Note that it is interactive - click on the number under the picture and voila, you get the people in that silo. What's weird is that Ball isn't anywhere on the chart...

https://theorg.com/org/green-bay-packers

Maybe NOW people will understand?

3 points
3
0
croatpackfan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 05:44 pm

Russ Ball is under Brian Gutekunst silo

-1 points
0
1
PackyCheese500's picture

January 30, 2023 at 06:35 pm

No, I think theyre all under Murphy

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

January 30, 2023 at 06:49 pm

No. Ball was very overtly kept as separate and equal by Murphy and reports only to Murphy. I actually quoted Murphy!s initial statement explaining that and the duties removed from the GM role from the packers website in response earlier in this thread. Murphy has reiterated Ball’s status regularly since. I will reproduce it again:

"I felt that, over time, silos had developed within football operations and communication had suffered. Also, I wanted to create a structure that gave [Brian] Gutekunst the best chance to succeed. By narrowing his responsibilities (several of the GM's responsibilities were shifted to Russ Ball, including salary cap management and contract negotiations), it allows him to focus on the most important aspects of his job, the draft and determining the 90 and 53-man rosters." Mark Murphy on Packers.com

2 points
2
0
Bitternotsour's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:45 pm

hilarious. you show him the org chart, and he refuses to believe it. Russ Ball answers only to Murphy. He has his own silo. In the Thompson days, Russ reported to Thompson. Murphy usurped that flow chart and made coach, GM, and Cap all equal and made all report to him, as though he was the owner. A coup de tete.

Facts.

2 points
2
0
jurp's picture

January 31, 2023 at 06:19 am

Part of the problem is the org chart I linked to - I tried to correct that, but was threatened with banning for posting spam. Packers.com actually has vertical version of the organization as a link from its home page.

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:37 pm

"Drafting a first round QB while signing starting QB to highest per season contract in nfl history along with drafting a second round RB only to sign starter to highest per season contract of any nfl rb."

I'll bite here. Don't mistake AAV for cap hit. Jones' cap hits in 2021 and 2022 (the first two years of his current deals) were both under $6M. His cap hit jumps to $20+M in 2023 due to increased cash value ($8M) and a big roster bonus ($7.4M), but there's no way he's going to see that money and all the parties knew that when he was signed. What's more, RBs are perishable goods: you need more than one. Even ARod's cap hits were $28M in 2021 and $34M in 2022. We're only just now at the point where it's taking off---and it's possible he never gets that money from the Packers.

2 points
2
0
Bitternotsour's picture

January 30, 2023 at 07:46 pm

They were supposed to trade him last year. Murphy spit the bit.

4 points
4
0
Jgilmor08's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:24 pm

Agreed and I’m aware of the cap gymnastics but the point remains both of those players are going to be playing for different teams thanks to the increases against the cap for each player. Most importantly the main emphasis outside the specific cap figures are how important it was to have a team in place to merit pushing all of the cap hits into the future. Make no mistake they might’ve danced around paying players certain salaries these past couple years but they will pay the piper coming up and there’s not a damn thing they can do about the dead cap hits. This means it was that much more important to logically draft and sign accordingly.

Now the team sits in cap hell with a roster that’s nothing special and nothing to show for it.

1 points
1
0
Lphill's picture

January 30, 2023 at 11:25 am

So the Eagles make 2 super bowl appearance's in 5 years with a different coaching staff and players , that's a job well done by a great front office from top down, the Packers should take notice.

10 points
11
1
Tekraut17's picture

January 30, 2023 at 03:38 pm

And it was 12 years before their other appearance and GB has been to 3 also over that period. So by your logic our FO is just as good...except we have the 2nd best winning percentage since MM took over in 2007 and Philly isn't even close so maybe Philly should take notice???

0 points
1
1
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

January 31, 2023 at 04:25 am

Philly went all in a few years ago when they thought Carson Wentz was the next great QB. Howie Roseman didn't look so good the first time after mangling their cap.

He continued to mangle their cap, but this time the team is going to have a super bowl appearance to show for it. Now Roseman is back to being a genius.

Philly has $4M in cap space for 2023. Their free agents include Javon Hargrave ($20M estimate to re-sign by Spotrac), CB James Bradbury ($17M), S Chauncey Gardner ($14M), OG Seumalo ($12M), OC Jason Kelce ($11.9M), LB Brandon Graham ($11.7M), RB Miles Sanders ($7M), Robert Quinn, Fletcher Cox, Gardner Minshew, DT Suh, OL Andre Dillard (first round pick who has been hurt continuously), and Jalen Hurts is on his last year.

I'd think it was worth it with just the super bowl appearance. No doubt a super bowl win would top things off nicely.

And there is no question Roseman made some really good decisions. He fleeced picks for Wentz, and draft Hurts, for example.

0 points
0
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 30, 2023 at 12:52 pm

A more apt and relevant article would have been "Murphy Is The Problem." I'm starting to think that the CHTV writers are deliberately avoiding the elephant in the room - the criticism of upper management. Instead becoming apologists.

As for me, watching Murphy mutilate sound corporate structures and leadership practices is like rubbing sandpaper on an exposed nerve. He is becoming a case study on how not to lead and operate a professional sport franchise.

10 points
10
0
croatpackfan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 05:49 pm

Well, I asked them to write something about Packers "we are not idiots" CEO. And I asked them why they are avoiding this issue. I offered answer - are you afraid to lose your press permits?

I think this article is in that direction...

1 points
1
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:39 pm

I believe that there are a number of thin-skinned individuals in Packers management (including Rodgers) - who are not receptive to any type of criticism. I recall that Nagler was on the Packers black list, for a while, for something he said about Rodgers (I think). So revoking a press permit because of what could be perceived as an anti-management article may be a legitimate concern.

2 points
2
0
Rarescope's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:44 pm

That is an interesting and plausible take. Toss the org a bone once in awhile to stay in their hood graces - yeah, I could see that and wouldn’t begrudge CHTV in the least for playing the game. It is their business after all.

2 points
2
0
PackyCheese500's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:14 pm

In regard to the decision to retain Rodgers, we can’t blame Murphy for doing what he thought was best for the team. Remember, at that time, Rodgers was coming off his second straight MVP and all-pro season. It is no small thing to want to trade a player of his caliber that’s been a staple of Packers football for years!

I thought the FO took a very good and smart approach to the off-season. I, too, still thought we could contend for a Super Bowl in 2022. Coaching failures cost us. If Dan Campbell was our HC, I bet you we would have won double digit games and made the playoffs, and maybe even make a good run, too.

The trade of Adams exposed how reliant MLF was on him to carry the offense, and when he’s asked to do more, MLF comes up short. Barry is just bad, and not firing him is inexcusable.

1 points
4
3
stockholder's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:20 pm

In 2021.
"Packers CEO: No way Aaron Rodgers leaves, 'we're not idiots'
So why wasn't Love traded Then!
Conclusion: The Bust talk.
In 2023
Packers might trade Rodgers.
And Love is Ready.
Yet Rodgers played and Love didn't.
Conclusion:
"relations have to be built on trust"
Thats just not what we're seeing.
There is No accountability with Murphy.
There is No accountability with Gutey.
There is No accountability With MLF.
Only "TALK" OF Rodgers BEING FINISHED.
What does Rodgers want?
Trust!

1 points
4
3
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 03:25 pm

"What does Rodgers want?"

Who the heck knows? Relevance? Love? Adulation? Power within the team structure? Money? The point is, what Rodgers wants shouldn't trump what's best for the TEAM.

Rodgers' only "want" that should concern us is the team he wants to be traded to.

Interesting that stockholder, on a thread dedicated to Murphy, with almost no posts mentioning Rodgers, manages to shoe-horn Rodgers (and Love! Of course! into the conversation.

Oh shit! And I fell for it! AAAAAAUUUUGGGGGHHHHH

1 points
2
1
stockholder's picture

January 30, 2023 at 04:55 pm

chirp- Its just you.
They don't need to trade him.
Were not idiots said it all abut Murphy.
That was his Quote.
The cap is increased.
16 mil is doable.
I used trust; because that is exactly
what Rodgers wants. -
Trust him! He trusts Tonyan,Lewis,Bahk and Crosby.
His WRs are dropping the first pass thrown to them.
That all has to stop if they want Rodgers trust.
Lets figure those drops into his stats.
Nobody in the NFL will throw a perfect pass
every time.
But does this team want to win or rebuild.
I doubt it. Money is more important.

0 points
2
2
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 05:40 pm

"chirp"? Hmm, I like it. Thanks.

As for the rest of your post... I'll be kind today - the article itself out-bonkers any of our comments. Stiil, I'd like some French Dressing for your word salad.

I do have one question - how do you know that all Rodgers wants is trust? I, personally, would assume that he wants $59 million, because if I were in his shoes I certainly would.

0 points
0
0
croatpackfan's picture

January 30, 2023 at 05:53 pm

Interesting is that, by stockholder(?), ACR only want trust. But he wants his trust to be earned. He is not willing to give trust.

And jurp, you should know that any argument does not suits well with emotionaly blinded persons... Especially when he is asking for accountability of everybody, but not from his man crush...

-1 points
2
3
Rarescope's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:50 pm

You know stockholder I see you have a bad rap around here and don’t mean to pile on the bandwagon but… Love is _most likely_ an excellent backup QB to have on the team and is playing on a rookie contract. Trade him and you’re left with Dude On the Couch Who Had a Good Season in Highschool as your backup. Given a legit trade offer for high picks I could see trading him but I don’t see that happening so that leaves us with a most likely excellent backup QB on a rookie contract.

-1 points
1
2
greengold's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:32 pm

"Rat farts!" — Darren Rizzi

"Baaa-loney!" — Packers Special Teams Futility 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022.

"Hogwash!" — $$$$$$$$$$$

Darren Rizzi was the ST Coordinator Matt LaFleur wanted on his staff. Rizzi left without a contract after Mr. "Make Sure The Money Is There," Mark Murphy, refused to pay the going rate for Rizzi's services which ranked him (2021) #3 All-Time in NFL History (according to Rick Gosselin).

Murphy has been meddlesome. Many fans can clearly see that, Gullible Ken. Have you forgotten Murphy's trip to Mississippi with a briefcase full of cash???

"What in the Wide World of Sports is goin' on here?"— Slim Pickens

5 points
6
1
jannes bjornson's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:51 pm

An early item from the multi-volume Evidence File, accruing since the 2018 Coup.

3 points
3
0
greengold's picture

January 30, 2023 at 03:13 pm

LOL!

"Sheeeee-oooot! Dang gone 'n done it a'gin, jannes! These drawers are a burstin''!" — Also, Slim Pickens

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 01:52 pm

Sorry Ken I cannot take this article seriously.

First off, the buck stops with the President of the organization. Secondly you didn't even go back to the beginning of the problems with Murphy's tenure as team president. Specifically back to at least 2015 when he allowed TT to continue to remain in the GM spot when it was obvious to most of us that TT was on the decline although we could not know the reason until he finally stepped down in 2017. We will never be able to adequately assess the damage done to the Packers team as a result of those poor drafts starting in 2015 through 2017. That's only the beginning.

With TT finally moved over, Murphy installs Gute as GM and re engineers the Packers reporting structure so that Gute, Ball and MLF report directly to him. It's interesting at least to me that all this takes place with TT gone and after Gute is finished with his Titletown project. He tears downs the reporting structure established by his predecessor (who only saved the franchise) and which structure is consistent with how most other NFL teams are run. Then he has everyone report directly to him including 3 members of the football side of the business. BTW, when this happened back in 2018 the purpose of this reorganization didn't really fool anyone here at CHTV about what was going on. But we pretty much agreed that it had to be given a chance. As if we could do anything else.

Then there is the 2 hour lunch date with MLF and he's hired by Murphy. Murphy himself said, "We found the guy we wanted." If I was a gambling person I'm confident that I could win big by betting that Murphy spent more than 2 hours to hire his General Contractor for his Titletown project.

Speaking of Titletown, you mentioned that it will be a team revenue stream for generations to come. Really??? How are the crowds over there now that the Packers are out of the playoffs. Was the hotel sold out ver the weekend in January. Is it booked from now through May or June? I went to the site for the Kohler hotel before I started this post. I had no problem booking a room for next week Monday though Sunday. I didn't finish the booking but I confirmed that they have plenty of rooms available all week. MY point is that if the Packers go into a 70s/80s type of downturn Titletown will become White Elephant town for the city of Green Bay and for the team. People are not going to go to Green Bay if the Packers drop out of the NFL limelights. They won't have national TV coverage and the mystique of the Frozen Tundra will vanish when fans no longer see the Cathedral of football on their TVs of every week. Nothing against Green Bay, I've been there several times over the years to see a game at Lambeau and I love it. But I'm a lifer. Now if and hopefully the Packers can return to contention and continue winning we have a different story but nothing last forever.

Next we have the infamous "We're not idiots" proclamation by Murphy prior to signing Rodgers to his "Mother of all NFL" contracts. If Gute was making the decision to extend Rodgers, Murphy took all of Gute's leverage away with that very public comment. It was the soundbite heard around the sports world. So you canal it off on Gute or Ball or both by the reality is that Murphy made the decision right then and there.

So let's review. Murphy turns football into a hobby in Green Bay while he goes off to build Titletown. While fiddling with Titletown, his ill GM is allowed to make questionable draft choices for at least 3 years until Murphy returns from Titletown to check in on his hobby and allegedly save the day. First he hires Gute as his GM, unless you are aware that someone else made that decision. Then he hires MLF as HC after a two hour interview and Murphy himself proclaims that "we found our guy." While the white smoke emerges from the chimney at 1265, the NFL world responds with Who???

Then we have the "We're not idiots" proclamation, again by Murphy to Packers world and Rodgers is extended and the Packers are plunged into cap hell.

Let's not forget that Murphy's hired MLF and that MLF has hired Manenga, and Drayton as ST coaches and then Joe Barry as his DC. Now you can correctly claim those hires are on M LF not Murphy but then again who hired MLF after a 2 hour interview. Yes, correct, bingo, Murphy.

We can also hide behind the fact that Gute and Ball have put us in cap hell but who hired both of them and was at least aware of every contract signing if not an actual signer of each contract. Yes, you win again, it's Murphy.

So we can lay blame alll over the place like the Packers have done with their salary cap money but in the end it all comes back to Murphy where it all started in the first place. So yes, it is all Murphy's fault. The problem is that it doesn't matter because no one is doing anything about any of it. We want all of our coaches back and we want to keep all of all players and we have extended Gute and MLF and the band plays on. And BTW we have rooms available at Titletown this week so come join us in downtown Green Bay and take a ride on a slide into salary cap hell. Yes it's all here at Titletown except the crowds, except the crowds,,except the crowds. Sorry to go all Hamlet on you but for now the "Rest is Silence". Thanks, Since '61

8 points
9
1
greengold's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:17 pm

Who reports to who??? — LOL.

Great point, my friend. Dang it, if the offseason isn't funny. Now, stop bothering me with stuff that makes sense.

I'm going back to reading that article about how we ought to re-sign Keisean Nixon... which will be one helluva trick without Rich Bisaccia!

There is the matter of re-signing S Dallin Leavitt.... and, LB Eric Wilson. Again, tough ... uh... "sledding," (BA-DUM... BUM... wait for it... ... ... PISHHHHH!) er..., ahem... without Bisaccia.

6 points
7
1
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:43 pm

Spot on as usual green gold and a cookie for you sir! Thanks, Since '61

2 points
3
1
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 03:30 pm

There are not enough cookies extant in the world for you Since '61!

2 points
3
1
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:05 pm

gotta feed the troops. Keep them happy. Thanks, Since '61

3 points
3
0
Rarescope's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:57 pm

Lol you are most definitely one of the good ones kind sir. Probably one of the first posters here that I recognized on a regular basis when I started coming around a few years ago.

Thanks,
Rarescope

3 points
3
0
Since'61's picture

January 31, 2023 at 07:02 pm

Rarescope - I appreciate your kind words and enjoy your posts. Keep'em coming. Happy that you decided to stick with us here at CHTV. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
0
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 30, 2023 at 04:29 pm

Excellent synopsis '61. Every Board of Director should know this and be prepared to act. Otherwise they shouldn't be on the Board.

6 points
7
1
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:10 pm

Regrettably Alberta the board won't act. Murphy will retire and probably become a Board member himself as Bob Harlan did after his retirement. If they promote Gute or possibly Ball to President the beat will go on.
Thanks, Since '61

4 points
4
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:47 pm

I am afraid that you are entirely correct.

3 points
3
0
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 02:47 pm

I'll put this as simply as possible. When the Packers win a SB and they have the ceremony at the end. of the game they hand the Lombardi Trophy to Mark Murphy. That's it, he is responsible. End of story, done,
Case Closed. Thanks, Since '61

6 points
6
0
greengold's picture

January 30, 2023 at 04:34 pm

After they trade Aaron Rodgers to the Jets.

Jordan Love dons the Championship Belt, after beating said Jets about a year from now... a man can dream.

5 points
6
1
jurp's picture

January 30, 2023 at 05:42 pm

That would be fucking hilarious - the look on Rodgers' face if that were to happen... Wow. The NFL would LOVE that story line.

4 points
4
0
Since'61's picture

January 30, 2023 at 08:17 pm

Yes gg we can dream. It's a good thing. Dreams and our sense of humor keep us sane during these crazy times for the Packers. Dream on! Thanks, Since '61

2 points
2
0
Kegrat's picture

January 30, 2023 at 06:43 pm

I agree with jury. Creating silos allows for more miscommunication. If the goal is to create effective communication, then change the process, not the structure.

2 points
2
0
Rossonero's picture

January 30, 2023 at 09:39 pm

It's fair that Murphy has inserted himself too much into the limelight. Perception is reality: and if Mark Murphy wanted to avoid the perception that he's meddling in football decisions, then he should NOT be commenting re-signing Aaron Rodgers (the "we're not idiots" comment comes to mind).

He should be stepping aside and focusing on his pet projects and not commenting on player transactions like Rodgers (even if it's the richest QB contract in NFL history).

Normally when leaders veer off course, it's because they've gone too much in one direction. Murphy has done this.

Is there blame to go around? Yes, of course. Every person up and down the chain of command needs to take ownership for their area of responsibility:

Murphy - it all starts with him
Gutekunst - signing Rodgers to that bloated contract when the Broncos were drooling for a QB
MLF - hired the wrong coaches like Barry and Drayton. Got outcoached routinely in 2022.
Players - many did not perform to expectations after getting handsomely paid (Campbell, Douglas, Rodgers) or simply didn't play consistently well (Dillon, Jenkins, Myers, Stokes, etc.)

3 points
3
0
Ron750's picture

January 31, 2023 at 04:32 am

The Packer’s best years have been when they had one strong leader like Lombardi or Wolf. Management by committee has always been a fail. Eliot Wolf will have another SB ring before Gutekunst. I assume it was MM who let Eliot go.

0 points
0
0
lou's picture

January 31, 2023 at 09:22 am

We need to know your middle initial Ken, you are gaslighting the fan base like KJP the Press Secretary.

-1 points
1
2