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What Does DeShone Kizer Trade Mean for Packers Future?

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What Does DeShone Kizer Trade Mean for Packers Future?

Earlier this week, the Green Bay Packers made an unexpected trade with the Cleveland Browns, one that brought in a potential quarterback of the future, while at the same time getting rid of one of the team’s best corners.

So what gives, why did the Packers decide to trade away Damarious Randall for Deshone Kizer? And more importantly, where does Green Bay go from here?

When the news first broke Friday, it was a bit of a shock. However, when you really sit and think about it, the trade of Randall isn’t. Yes, he led the team in interceptions in 2018. But he also got beat a lot and on top of that, he caused problems.

There was a well documented spat between Randall and head coach Mike McCarthy early in the season. Then, Randall sat the final two games when the Packers felt he could have played and on top of that, the third-year man openly criticized departed defensive coordinator Dom Capers.

At the end of the season press conference, McCarthy talked about how Randall needed to get his house in order. Well now, that house will be in Cleveland and not Green Bay.

In three seasons, Randall, a first-round pick back in 2015, intercepted 10 passes. But he never became the player the Packers hoped he would be. He’s a ball hawk, but his man-to-man coverage skills leave a lot to be desired.

Randall also had just one year left on his rookie contract. Green Bay could have used his fifth-year option to keep him for the next two years, but the organization chose to move on, instead of paying the versatile defensive back.

Obviously, cornerback was already a big need. Now, with Randall gone, it’s even bigger. On the other hand, backup quarterback is a position that because of Kizer, no longer needs to be addressed.

Going back to the 2017 NFL draft, there were rumors that the Packers were looking at Kizer in the second round of the draft, but instead, Green Bay picked Kevin King. One year later, they have both and who knows, maybe they GM Brian Gutekunst just found the quarterback of the future.

The Packers will have at least three more years to find out. Brett Hundley, last year’s backup, had just one year left on his deal. And after his play last season, his time in Green Bay was running short anyways. Acquiring Kizer, who has three years left on a cheap rookie contract, starts that clock again, with a new, young quarterback to develop. 

Kizer didn’t have a great rookie season. He only completed 53 percent of his passes, while throwing 11 touchdowns and 22 interceptions. But he was also thrown into a terrible situation, with arguably the least-talented roster in the NFL.

In Green Bay, he won’t have to play, unless of course, Aaron Rodgers get injured. Kizer will not only get to learn from the best, he will get to study and observe and in a year or two, he might be read to play, either in Green Bay or somehwere else after another trade. 

Either way, the Packers get a first-round talent and only had to give up a player it no longer wanted to get it. Seems like a smart move and what made it even better was the Packers and Browns swapped picks in the fourth and fifth rounds, giving Green Bay the first pick in round 4 for the second straight year.

That may not seem like much, but that’s a valuable spot. Green Bay also has six picks in the top 138 and four in the top 101. The Packers have 12 total, including eight in the first five rounds.

Those are all positives from the trade, but the negative is the concerning lack of depth at corner. Randall wasn’t a shutdown guy by any means, but he was a solid nickelback, who could tackle and had a knack for turnovers.

Now, the Packers have Kevin King, Josh Hawkins, Lenzy Pipkins and Quinten Rollins, another bust from the 2015 draft class. If those options sound less than promising, you aren’t alone.

Certainly, King is going to be a big part of any makeover. He needs to get healthy and build on what was a solid, but frustrating rookie season. Hawkins and Pipkins have a chance, at least as sub-package players and Rollins is on his last legs. With Morgan Burnett also set to become a free agent, Green Bay could have holes at cornerback and safety.

But at the same time, is that such a bad thing? The Packers pass defense has been so bad in recent years, are any of these guys really worth keeping? The answer is becoming an obvious no.

At this point, I expect Burnett to walk. I also expect the Packers to sign a big-name free agent at corner. Bob McGinn, the long-time Packers beat writer who now runs his own website, reported that the Packers are going make a hard push for Rams free agent Trumaine Johnson.

While I will believe it when I see it, it certainly makes sense. Another detail of the Randall trade was the cap space gained, which was a couple million, giving Green Bay around $21 million in space as free agency opens this week.

That might not be a ton, but it’s more than enough to sign a couple impact free agents. Johnson or maybe Malcolm Butler will be targets, Muhammad Wilkerson is another that should be acquired and if not him, another veteran with proven pass-rush capability.

Edge rusher is a need. The Packers need more from Nick Perry and have to be able to move around Clay Matthews more. So getting another rusher off the edge could help the defense in more ways than one.

However, addressing the secondary in free agency is a must. Obviously, the draft is another avenue and it can be a good one. Yet, after years of relying so much on unproven, young talent, the Packers need some veteran help, particularly at cornerback.

And of all the takeaways from the Kizer trade, that’s the biggest. Green Bay got a quarterback to develop, it also got rid of a cancer and at the same time, it opened a huge hole in the secondary, one that can’t just be filled through the NFL’s annual selection meeting.

 

 

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (203) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

sonomaca's picture

Hopefully this isn’t a repeat of Hyde

sonomaca's picture

and Hayward. Go elsewhere and become a star.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

Unfortunately, I think that is just as likely as not.

Hawg Hanner's picture

I agree it would make sense to say bye to Burnett as well..he's steady, a nice guy but not a great talent. Can't pay him. Better to start with a fresh slate. We were wrong in cutting Hayward only in that the guys we thought were going to be good busted. He really turned it around. Hyde looks like a mistake but some have said it was scheme?

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

Bad coaching. Hyde clearly was a safety all along and Dom and his gang of buddies just didn't see what was plain as day.

dobber's picture

Was it bad coaching or was it the fact that they needed him to cover for the inadequacies or injury issues at other positions in the secondary?

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

I'd suggest bad coaching. Randall can man the slot effectively - though not at an all-pro level. However, many talent evaluators thought he would be best as a Free Safety in the Pros - his position at ASU.

I'd suggest that Randall was miscast throughout his tenure as a Packer.

HankScorpio's picture

He's not physical enough to play Safety all that well.

I'm far less concerned that he'll go elsewhere and excel than I was about Hyde and Hayward. Both of those guys showed so much more than Randall ever did. I expect Randall will be more like the guy he succeeded as "CB of the Year"---LaDarius Gunter.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

And free safety? Centerfielder? This is something I think Randall would do very well. He's got the instincts and speed to make things happen as the back line of defense.

This absolutely smacks of Hyde:

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/12/browns-moving-former-packers...

worztik's picture

Who cares?

The TKstinator's picture

Here’s another “half like, half dislike”!

dobber's picture

One of these things is half-like the other...

The TKstinator's picture

Which one is different, do you know?

(Old school hard core Sesame, yo)

worztik's picture

Who cares?

Doug Niemczynski's picture

I am pretty sure it will be. I mean look he is already going to a top 10 defensive team. He can only be better.

CheesyTex's picture

It seems nobody wants to talk about it, but...

#12 is clearly aware of the history for legendary QBs in Green Bay.

Packers currently hold the upper hand in contract negotiations (2 years, franchise tags, etc.).

Could this be part of a strategy to back-fill in the (gulp) event a new agreement can't be reached?

worztik's picture

Yup!!! I be been saying it all along!!! However, now we don’t need to spend a high pick on a QB... we have one with great potential if coached well! Furthermore, let’s move on from Hayward, Hyde, Tretter, Lange and all the rest!!! The past is the past and it’s GONE!!! No one has a crystal ball... let’s move forward with Gute and a new and healthy mindset!!!

nigrivasilayesrej's picture

Seriously, wtf is wrong with you??? Did you hit your head a lot as a child??? Are you in a constant state of drunk??? Drugs??? You can scream from the mountaintops, but until you learn how to type coherent sentences, & stop using so much damn punctuation, nobody will take you seriously. Passion is awesome, but not when it's accompanied by crazy.

John Kirk's picture

nigrivailayesrej... "It's better to be kind than right." ... That sure doesn't apply to what you just posted. Seriously, edit that away. Totally uncalled for and makes you look really really bad.

I saw you just edited your comment from bad to worse. C'mon man. You have to be better than that...

worztik's picture

Drugs Al just DRUGS, buddy!!! (Note the exclamation marks!!!)

The TKstinator's picture

Embarrassed to admit that I previously thought this screen name was just a jumble of letters.
Then I read it in reverse.
Not very nice.

John Kirk's picture

You just clued me in. I thought he just let his cat run across the keyboard.

Jersey Al should be informed. This guy isn't a very nice mannered fellow.

John Kirk's picture

YES! It's a hedge. Just like taking Aaron was a hedge on whether Brett was going to retire, or not.

I've been talking about this and feel it's a very worthy topic. We simply don't know if we really want to extend him or if he really wants to stay. Yes, both parties are saying all the things you would expect but that doesn't mean either or both are true.

Would really like to know what 12 thinks of this move? As sensitive as he is, he can't be overly thrilled about it, and he may read into the move more than any of us have.

The best interests of the Packers is to let Aaron play the next two under the current arrangement and see where he is physically and mentally. I saw a stat that showed Drew Brees has missed one game in 12 years with the Saints (has it been that long?) and Aaron has missed 16 games over the last 5 years in Green Bay. Aaron will turn 37 the season after his current deal expires. Drop dead point for a lot of great QB's of the past was 38. I remain very unkeen on giving him a long extension.

It's interesting Bakhtiari who is out recruiting guys like Wilkerson and Sherman has said diddly about Kizer coming to Green Bay. I think that's odd. Doesn't appear the guys on the team are thrilled by the move.

OrganLeroy's picture

you're creating a QB conspiracy theory where none exists. Kizer is here to replace Hundley, Aaron isn't going anywhere. You need to take a deep breath. It's a non-issue, non-story.

John Kirk's picture

Hardly. I'll ask you what I asked elsewhere... How do you explain the story coming out that we were interested in taking Kizer at 33 last year? That blows the "he's here to replace Hundley" thing out of the water.

It's a big issue and a big story. Again, explain why we would've taken him at 33 last year?

HankScorpio's picture

It's pretty easy to explain the interest in a backup QB. Just watch the game tape of Hundley in 2017. The Packers knew that was coming if Hundley ever got on the field, even if they were unwilling to say so publicly.

Ultimately, they didn't do anything about it, hoping Rodgers would play all year. It didn't work out like that. So they're trying to fix it now.

If they can keep him around as the backup and he develops into a viable option to replace Rodgers years down the road, that's all the better. But for now it is about upgrading Hundley, as 2017 showed is plainly necessary.

Pretty straight forward and simple. No Tin Foil Hat required to figure it out. Occam's Razor is all you need to know.

John Kirk's picture

Oh, I love the ol' Razor, but where does that fit with... The Packers wanted Kizer at 33 last year? It falls apart right there. They were not drafting strictly a backup QB at 33...we all can stipulate to that.

Why is it so hard for people to "go there". You're still going to be a fan..no body parts will fall off if you discuss it. I don't get the close mindedness that rejects things that are perfectly rational.

Explain the idea of taking Kizer at 33 in light of him being here strictly as a backup fix.

HankScorpio's picture

John,

If you don't have a newfound respect for the importance of backup QB after watching Hundley in 2017, I'm afraid there is nothing I can do to explain it to you.

John Kirk's picture

Oh, Hank, I do. I do. Will you continue ignoring the question of why we would take Kizer at 33 last season?

HankScorpio's picture

John,

I haven't ignored the question. You have ignored the answer.

dobber's picture

They can have all the interest in the world in a guy, but in the end they didn't take him. There are going to be a crap-ton of guys associated with the Packers at #14, but how legit is that interest going to be?

Many speculated that the "Kizer at 33" was nothing more than an attempt to try to drum up trade interest for that pick. Personally, I think that's just as likely as them fomenting some kind of controversy behind QB1. Unless they deal #12, he's the QB and there's no controversy.

fthisJack's picture

what your promoting is not rational...its a conspiracy theory that you seem to like to lay out there on occasion.
bottom line is still the most obvious reason for getting Kizer. they needed an adequate backup QB and they liked Kizer at 33 last year so when the opportunity came to get rid of a cancer and add that backup that they so desperately need , it was a no brainer. and, if he develops over the next 3 years maybe they can trade him for a player or draft pick.
Rodgers ain't going anywhere as much as you want to promote that idea. he will be extended after Cousins signs his deal.

John Kirk's picture

It's not a conspiracy theory in any sense of the term. Can you answer why they would draft him at 33 last year? Don't put that in context of trading for him NOW, go back and tell me the reason(s) they would've drafted him last year. It would NOT have been to be a career backup. That we all know and can agree to so you're left with casting aspersions on my rationality while being wholly irrational. No sale. Answer the question.

holmesmd's picture

John,
you ever consider GB WAS NOT interested in Keizer at #33 last year?! How do you know as fact that they were? It’s complete speculation.

John Kirk's picture

Yes. I have. I've spoken to this somewhere. Not sure if it's this thread and another, or where exactly.

It was reported we wanted him at 33. Nobody is denying that report is out there. I've said IF it is true, then all these issues come into play and should be discussed. I think the fact that we traded a CB, which was one of our weakest positions, to get Kizer is some validation that that rumor from last year was true. It seems like an awfully odd trade but not in light of hearing we thought about pulling the trigger at 33 last year. IF that is the case, it says a whole lot more than people want to get into. I've asked Hank repeatedly to answer this question and he won't, relegating this to strictly a move for a backup QB. That is not what this is if they wanted Kizer at 33 last year and wouldn't be now.

worztik's picture

I agree John. It’s not as if I don’t like AROD, it just makes perfect common sense. I don’t understand all the animosity on this site when there’s a difference of opinions. Makes me wonder what’s wrong with some people’s lives that they’re so contrary? Anyway, maybe by omitting my extra “PUNCTUATION” I can make at least “backwards yesreJlA” a bit happier. I hope so because someone who gets all bent out of shape by a person’s writing style is one unhappy fella... ya get me (to quote Robert Shaw in the STING!).

John Kirk's picture

I've seen some pretty rough and uncalled for stuff in the comment section. Debating points hard is fine but attacking a poster personally is just bush league and is reflective of poor character or at very least poor judgment.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

I do think you make a good point here. Everyone is just assuming that ARod is going to re-sign very soon. I don't think it's anywhere near a done deal. Arod does want to win championships above all else, and he's got to be fed up with the direction the team has been headed since 2012.

John Kirk's picture

BM...There is no question MM and AR aren't close and that 12 didn't think much of Ted as a guy to give him what he wanted. I think Aaron has no respect for MM at all. I think MM thinks Aaron is a punk baby. I've googled around to find something written that backs my opinion and Colin Cowherd who I can't stand is the guy who comes up as one who feels as I do. My gut feeling has been this way for some years now and Aaron has become snarkier and snarkier with some of his comments and his body language even on the field.

Aaron has wanted to be thought of like Brady and he never will be if he doesn't get back to more SB's. Do you think he's happy with how Ted ran things? Ain't no way. Is he happy with MM? Again, ain't no way. Is he happy with this bizarre new power structure? I doubt it. You think he wants to trust his precious last years to a first year GM who has an absentee landlord CEO who now thinks he's Jerry Jones looking over his shoulder? I doubt it.

If you're Aaron why would you want to sign here? If you're Brian, do you really want to pay 30 mil to a guy who is aging and has missed 16 games in the last 5 seasons, who has become more and more diva like, who will constrict your ability to craft a solid roster?

No question I think it'll probably still get done but I can see reasons for it not and Kizer is one of those break glass in an emergency type situations. He's here now and we can build with him if something goes wrong with Aaron. Personally, I was hoping for better than Kizer but he's raw and was in Cleveland. He could skyrocket as far as jumps are concerned here vs. there. He's away from home (from Toledo) which might be good for him.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I don't see a way to know how much stock to put into reports that GB was interested in taking Kizer at #33 over King, and perhaps Watt. Were they just trying to gin up interest to trade down?

If it is true, then yes, I would at least wonder if some things weren't as they seem. Using #33 to select a back-up QB seems odd in the extreme to me. IDK what AR's relationship is like with MM, but it sure seems like he liked Van Pelt, who was his position coach when GB was deciding whether to take Kizer. I have the impression that AR likes Philbin, but I don't really know. Now, trading Randall for Kizer and draft position is a lower price. If report surface that BG had an offer for a player we need, a TE or whatever, that too, would be interesting.

stockholder's picture

This was a cleveland offer. GB would not have the lower picks if they wanted Kizer. This is a Wolf deal. He knew all the players and Dorsey wanted a cb. The packers wanted their picks more than Kizer. Kizer filled a need is all. The packers are targeting 2 players in the 3rd round. This puts them closer. Watch one of these picks and the 3rd comp be traded.

fthisJack's picture

i will guarantee that he will be extended sometime after Cousins gets signed.

Chris Peterson's picture

No. A deal will get done. They should do one right now. Would save some cap space and probably money long term. But no, Rodgers isn't going anywhere. Maybe down the road it's a protection against injury. Who knows if Rodgers will have more injury issues. They got a guy with upside that has experience. He showed some good things. A lot of bad too. But they like him last year, it's a Jimmy G type of move. The Packers and Patriots need to keep having guys to develop for a few years behind Rodgers and Brady just in case. No plan though to replace Rodgers

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I agree that a deal most likely will get done. I think there is a very small chance of it saving cap in 2018, and zero chance of a new deal saving cap space in any 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6-year time frame. To do that, AR would have to agree to play for less than Brady has agreed to play for. I suppose it is possible that AR is willing to play second fiddle to Brady in terms of their respective contracts.

A new deal will also have the opposite effect of providing injury protection. Right now if AR gets injured he has no dead money and the risk is zero. If it is in-season, the risk is limited to $21.1M in 2018. There is close to zero chance of AR signing a split contract in case of injury. Any new deal is going to have boatloads of guaranteed money. Should AR have a career-ending injury in 2018 as opposed to a season-ending injury, the most likely consequence is for $60M to $90M in cap hits accelerating into 2019. That is a risk that all teams with superstars take.

John Kirk's picture

Chris...NOBODY knows for sure that a deal is getting done. From the outside, it's easy to say that because the odds appear near 100%..but that's the outside. Nobody here knows Aaron and what he's thinking nor do they know if there is a hard ceiling that Brian wouldn't go above to keep him. Too many unknowns to know it's happening without admitting there's a small chance it won't.

A long term extension seems very very foolish to me. IF a deal must be done, a short term extension adding a max of 2 years seems wisest to me,. Sadly, a short extension would increase the cap hits and that's what we're trying to avoid. A long one would allay that concern but is Aaron going to be Aaron 4 years from now? I think that's highly debatable.

I've loved Aaron the player from back at his days at Cal...Aaron the guy has worn on me and I don't care for him much like I didn't for Brett in his final years here. He's gotten way too big for his britches and we have no idea if his act has grown tired inside 1265. Kizer at 33 last year would've really fired up some talk that is being downplayed here but, to me, it's the same thing. It's just a little less than a year later and a guy who was considered at 33 is here and we gave up a decent CB to get him. Brian may be the guy who wanted Kizer and Ted didn't. Brian may see that Aaron is becoming more and more diva like and his cost is going to be prohibitive.

Until Aaron is signed, there's no way to ever say it's getting done for sure. NOBODY saw the Favre scenario coming after the NFC Championship loss.

fthisJack's picture

Rodgers keeps himself in great shape. there is no reason in the world he won't be able to play until he's 40, barring injury. even at 40 he will probably be better than 85 percent of the QB,s in the league.

Chris Peterson's picture

If a deal doesn't get done. They would tag him. He's not going anywhere. At the very least he will be in Green Bay at least the next 3-4 years. But more than likely, it will be another 5-6. Then it will be time to look for a new QB when he reaches around 40.

John Kirk's picture

That's a complete wish. Research the great QB's over the last few decades. You will find Brady and Favre are the two who played at 40. The overwhelming majority of star QB's are completely finished in a practical sense at 38. Aaron has missed 16 games in the last 5 years and you're here saying he'll be Aaron at 40? There is no basis for that. The most likely outcome is he will not be anything like Aaron Rodgers at 40. He's more likely to be retired at 40 than playing at a high level. That's based on history not wishing.

sonomaca's picture

This also tells us a bit about Gute/McCarthy vs Thompson/Wolf. I think we know which pair wanted Kizer.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

Having Kizer means nothing other than we are in theory slightly less screwed if ARod goes down again. Like you said, Chris, it also means our CB unit goes from under manned to officially the worst unit in all of professional football.

Oh, and regarding the Browns being the "least talented team" in the NFL? Last year, I read a LOT of articles about how the Browns actually matched up well personnel-wise with the Packers. Except at one key position: QB.

The Packers were a 4-12 team (at best) with Hundley at the helm last year. Was Kizer better? Yeah. Was it a whole lot better? Nah.

What is not changed is that our personnel is not very good. Just like Cleveland's isn't. And we don't have the draft capital they do, nor do we have the salary cap room.

The ONLY way this ship gets turned around in a hurry is if Gute has an enormous set of b***s and outright cuts aging vets and their salaries, then uses that savings to get players in who are younger, cheaper, and can play at an NFL average level or better. Regardless, it won't happen: I doubt that MM in the "power-sharing" agreement would let him do it even if he wanted to.

The liklihood with this team in 2018 is that ARod drags the rest of the roster kicking and screaming to the playoffs - maybe round 2. And we get pantsed on national TV. Again.

CheesyTex's picture

Agree, but IMO Kizer is still very developmental and has a high upside. Also hope Gute shakes it up this year.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

KIZER SUCKS!!!

Doug Niemczynski's picture

KIZER IS AWESOME!!!

Cubbygold's picture

Agree. Kizer wasn't acquired for his ability to lead the team next year. Its a project with a potential payoff in 2-3 years. Hundley was the same, and clearly the return is going to be nothing. Kizer has potential, well see what happens

Chuck Farley's picture

Is this the same Kiser from ND who was benched often and tossed a lot of picks.

worztik's picture

You are a downer Bearbreath... try being an optimist for a change!!! We have enough “negatory” ducks here... you’re better than them!!!

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

Why?

I call it like I see it. Always have and always will. See my response to Dobber below why I'm being a downer right now.

worztik's picture

I apologize Bear!!! I had no right to say that...

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

Nah. You have every right to state your opinion. Just like I do. We are both just armchair QBs. And frankly, that's half the fun. (although truth be told, I'm more afraid/frustrated until the games come on half the time - then I'm a stark raving green and gold wearing maniac.) :D

worztik's picture

You’re just a FAN-ATIC LIKE ME! We care about our team and our fans and we’re loyal. I really don’t have much of a life as my spine is all fused up as I’ve mentioned before. And I’m pretty headstrong and I love a LOGICAL ARGUMENT! Not one to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing. I am so happy that we now have a QB who can possibly be groomed for bigger things and we can concentrate on other areas of need. (Although we draft BPA and not for need!

dobber's picture

"Like you said, Chris, it also means our CB unit goes from under manned to officially the worst unit in all of professional football."

I'm glad the NFL doesn't play games in March.

"And we get pantsed on national TV. Again."

Ugh...6th grade flashbacks...

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

No. They don't play the games in March. But Dobber - look at the state of our salary cap, and the average age of our starters. Especially on offense. Then look at the lack of - well, to put it bluntly - skill in the back 7 on defense.

It doesn't look good. HOW is Gute going to make this into a formidable team and not just "ARod and his gang of jockstrap holders" once again? Especially when you consider that any drastic measure would have to have the approval of Mark Murphy, who listens to Mike McCarthy in this new power structure.

And yes, 6th grade flashbacks are certainly in vogue. If I had 50 bucks for every time Green Bay has screwed the pooch in the playoffs since 1992, I'd be a grand richer. ;)

OrganLeroy's picture

Cut 3/4 of the team and replace them with inexperienced rookies, yeah, that's a brilliant idea. Just ask Ted how that's been working out. I couldn't disagree with you more and you will be wrong when all is said and done.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

I didn't say anything about cutting 3/4 of the team. Nor did I say replace the entire team with rookies.

But that was an impressive strawman you just skewered.

Bure9620's picture

Damarious was bad for that locker room and it would be worse this year. Clearly teammates were losing respect as veterans wanted him released. Wish him well, Randall is NOT irreplaceable IMO.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

That's a bunch of crap. Where were these stories in November when he was balling out? Is Randall a butthead? Yeah. Does he need to grow up? Yeah. Is he a team-killer? No. Not even close.

Look, I don't think Randall is an all-pro - nor do I think he ever would have been (at least at CB - maybe at FS). But IMO to deal our only proven CB at any level for a backup QB is not wise.

We'd better get two CBs who can start in free agency AND draft one with high upside. Oh, and let's not forget about the pass rush.

Bure9620's picture

I just disagree, Randall was a head case, totally immature. Not a pro. I hear so many people now talking about what a loss this is?? I will wager Randall does not not get a second contract from Cleveland may not be in the league in a couple years. We have a project backup QB now. Better value IMO.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

Randall is a head case. But he also is a pro. They're not mutually exclusive. OBJ is 50x more nutso than Randall - but I'd kill to have OBJ on this team.

The point is, that Randall is an average player at a position where we already didn't have any "average" to spare. And he could have improved. Like someone said above - I hope this doesn't turn into a Heyward situation. And we dealt him for a player we hope we will NEVER see on the field. Riiiiiight. Got it.

Good Lord Dom was bad.

worztik's picture

Such speculation is wrong Bear!!! If Hayward had stayed in GB, who’s to say he would have had the season he had in SD? I wasn’t at all sad to see him go and it’s too bad Hyde also left! He was a good Packer and a good player but, we NEED a pro bowler/all pro at CB/safety!!! House can fill in where Randall played and with a better attitude. Attitude can be a team killer but, we do need an experienced CB like Colvin, however, at what price??? Our best strategy will be to do our due diligence and draft well!!! Everyone should hold their critiques of Kizer and let him learn in an atmosphere like GB!!! He’ll be finer than frog hair split six ways... just hopin’....

The TKstinator's picture

Another “half and half” that supposedly doesn’t exist?!

worztik's picture

What’s half n half in your vocabulary TKstinker?

Bure9620's picture

BM,
Yes technically, yes a "professional athlete." I was referring more to his demeanor and the negativity he brings to a LR. I can tell you, I do not see Randall as a leader, which frankly I expect from a first round draft pick going into his 4th season, to take on more of a leadership role. So no not a pro in this aspect.
Leadership is difficult. It means being accountable to your teammates, accountable yourself and demanding the most of yourself and demanding it from your teammates. You pick them up in times of adversity. Being a true pro is bringing the best out in your teammates and pointing the thumb and not the forefinger when necessary.

I was getting real tired of Randall with his arms up in the air and his head cocked to the side after they get scored on, shouting at his teammates, and even getting after coaches followed by sulking on the bench. This is not a pro. No one can convince me an average corner with these attitude issues is loss to a team and McCarthy and BG know this.
Having played Hockey at a high level I can tell you these players are a cancer for a team. That cancer was ready to metasticize with another year of this from Randall. OBJ is an extraordinary talent, not a pro and not a leader.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

Yeah. You have a point. I still stand by the old "they don't have anyone else" though.

And superbowls are won by superior talent. You have to find a way to harnass his lack of focus and high energy.

fthisJack's picture

i'm sure that Gute has a plan going froward. he didn't make this move without knowing that his CB room needs to be upgraded through FA and the draft. he wouldn't be that foolish. i think he will go after a plan A FA CB and then add a couple guys in a draft that is deep in CB talent.
also knowing that they don't have Capers running the defense, maybe some of these developmental players like Pipkins, Brown, or Hawkins will take the next step.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Cam Newton is a head case and the Panthers kept him. Just sayin.

marpag1's picture

C'mon, Bearmeat, really? Of course you remember how stories of Randall getting kicked off the field in week four nearly broke the internet? How he was seen screaming at coaches? I mean really, when is the last time that you remember ANY player of any team being sent off by his own team? T.O. maybe. But certainly, that's a huge deal that directly impacts whether or not team members respect their coaches and their peers, right? How is that NOT going to foment dissent and division in the locker room if some dude is ripping his coaches so blatantly that his own team feels compelled to send him off on national television??

Or are you saying that just because you didn't hear anything at the time about McCarthy's veteran leadership council advising MM to cut Randall (which obviously, self-evidently would have been an extremely confidential conversation), that this means there was no tension inside the building?

When Randall says to the media, “Players weren’t executing what they were being told, and I feel like maybe [that] wasn’t being enforced enough, that we were still allowing guys on the field that wasn’t getting the job done,," ... is this NOT going to piss off his teammates? It's an actual quote.

Isn't this why MM felt that it was necessary now to say publicly that Randall "needs to go home and self-evaluate and clean HIS OWN house...?" In other words, MM is telling Randall, "Hey, Idiot! Stop pissing off your teammates, focus on your own problems instead of blaming everybody else, OK?"

Sounds like a locker room problem to me. I don't see how Randall could NOT be a terrible distraction. I believe the only reason McCarthy didn't follow the vets' advice to cut him in week four is that MM didn't have any other friggen' corners. If MM had options, Randall would have been gone. And the reason MM didn't blast Randall in the media any more than he did is because he knows the Packers are going to try to trade him, and it would be counter-productive to bash the guy you want to trade.

Bure9620's picture

Amen

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

Marpag -

All that I am noting is that there have been a lot of Randall haters that have come out of the woodwork on the green and gold blogs since he got traded. Where were they before this? It's easy to bash a guy when he's gone, but harder when he's on your favorite team.

You make a good point about the possibility of him being cut earlier.

And yes, I do remember week 4. I do remember the MM comments, and I did see the bit about the "veteran leadership council."

I'm simply looking at the number of decent/proven CBs we have AND the number of decent/proven OLBs we have. (0 in both cases). Then I'm looking at our salary cap situation. And those bits of info are making me panic a bit.

Seems reasonable. But, as Dobber says, it is March. Gute has a mountain to climb up here.

williewood's picture

now we see what type of GM we have, now is the time we see what type of Defensive coordinator we have

the fans asked for change, they gave us a change. change comes with a price

Bearmeat is right, there is a mountain in front of gute, and right now only gute knows what path he is taking to climb

marpag1's picture

Yeah, I get it about the "needs vs. cap space" dilemma. In fact that's the only reason that I was even a little bit surprised that they dumped Randall... even though Randall ain't great, he's passable and still on his rookie deal. Virtually any UFA will cost significantly more.

Overall, I don't know if it's panic mode just yet though. Granted, the Packers don't have much cap room relative to their needs, but they certainly do have multiple ways that they can create more cap room if they want to. Cutting or renegotiating Nelson / Cobb / Matthews, and also extending ARod to be more cap friendly... these could literally free up tens of millions of dollars in cap space. For now, I think we gotta assume that Gute's got a plan. And right now I think the smart money says there will have to be some serious renegotiating in order to make that plan work. Frankly, I'm all in favor of it. Love Jordy, but I'm sorry, he flat out stunk last year. It sucks to cut guys like that, but if they kill your cap and won't renegotiate, then you gotta rip off the bandaid and move on.

dobber's picture

Not much different from how the contingent separates itself in season based on when the Packers win and when they lose...

fthisJack's picture

its not an unclimebable mountain, BM.

fthisJack's picture

unclimbable

Oppy's picture

I always find it odd that when a QB calls out his team mates for screwing up, it's holding his team mates accountable and showing high leadership skills.

When anyone else does it, it's a sign of poor character and a troublemaker.

Why are people so centered on the fact Randall called guys out, rather than if he was right about other players in the defensive backfield free lancing instead of playing their assignments?

If he's full of shit, and pointing fingers to cover his own failures, then yeah, I get it, he's a problem. If he's frustrated because the coverages were continually breaking down because DB's were regularly out of position or breaking off their assignments? Well, then maybe it needed to be said publicly, particularly if they really weren't being held responsible... and frankly, if it is true, who cares if his team mates don't like him for it?

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Yep, no way the Packers recover from the secondary losses over the last 3 seasons in a single off-season.

It's a high probability the the Packers pass defense in 2018 makes us yearn to go back to 2017. Even signing Trumain Jackson isn't going to fix it. If he was worth it the Rams would have paid him.

OrganLeroy's picture

Were you in the locker room last season?

Minniman's picture

2 points:

1) There is obviously something seriously wrong with Randall's character and\or locker-room presence for a team to deal away a R1 pick after enduring the developmental years with them. He'd have to be doing something seriously wrong for the Packers not to retain a moderately productive player at a specialist position still on his rookie contract. This decision can't have been made lightly.

2) I'm still all-in on building that stellar D-line to help give what is going to be a vastly different defensive backfield time to develop and build combinations. This point shouldn't be trivialized - it doesn't matter how good the new DB faces are that come in, they are going to need time to gel as a position group to understand how each person plays and how they compliment one another

HankScorpio's picture

"Where were these stories in November when he was balling out? "

Words I never thought I see used in this order. At least not outside a Randall family reunion.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I find Marpag's post very persuasive. I don't take issue with the compensation we received for Randall. Sure, I wish that the high 2nd round player we got back in the trade had been a TE, WR, or CB who perhaps was unimpressive as a rookie, but Kizer it is. He looked like a top 50 player in last year's draft, probably better than that.

Adding into the equation the state of the cupboard, was Randall more valuable to us than what we received?

Full Disclosure: I would have fired MM and Capers last year. I have to wonder if we had a new HC and a new DC whether it would have been such a seemingly foregone conclusion to dump Randall. I suppose that would have depended on the personality traits of the unknown HC and DC (and if we had a new HC, it is possible that Pettine isn't the DC).

One other thing is influencing me. I once worked in a small office (under 12 people) with a person I absolutely hated. I don't know if everyone hated him, but I am sure no one liked him. The guy was insufferable. When he took vacation, work was so nice to go to. He made mistakes sometimes, and I was the one that had to fix them as often as not, but he was competent, so it never occurred to me to try to get the guy fired. Of course, I knew that the owner of that company knew about the guy's abrasive personality, so it wasn't a matter of having the tell the owner something he didn't already know. Admittedly, I didn't spend hours in the DB room with him, and I didn't have to collaborate with him. IDK.

BELIEVER's picture

What has not been mentioned is this simple trade put the defense on notice. That could be huge with how other players react. Ship him to the worst team in the NFL. Lombardi is smiling.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

They may be bad again this year, but good times are coming for the Browns. Dorsey/Wolf/Highsmith are great heads to any front office.

I'd personally bet they get their QB of the future in either pick 1 or 4 this year. They are mediocre - say 6-10 - and then NEXT year, they break out and make the playoffs.

kevgk's picture

never getting to the playoffs with Hue Jackson, or whoever terrible coach their terrible owner insists on having. There is a good chance that by the time they get a good coach, they have to pay their rookie prospects and then Dorsey's struggles with managing a cap manifest themselves

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

I agree with you about Hue. But after they miss the playoffs this year, John will be able to fire Hue and hire his own guy. Which may or may not be Mike McCarthy if things in GB don't go well..... just sayin.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Predictions

Browns will win the Super Bowl within 5 years
Maybe even 2-3 years.

kevgk's picture

thisthisthisthisthis
its easy to ship a player off AFTER signing a big name replacement, but before FA demonstrates a no BS attitude to the team

jeremyjjbrown's picture

On notice for what?

If you can't stand the Packers pass scheme and Safety group we'll trade you?

If it means not having to play with Brice and HaHa anymore I'd sign right up.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I didn't think I agreed with you Jeremy, but then I was laughing as I read your post. So at some level maybe I do.

The TKstinator's picture

I think it means adios to Hundley and that GB has a definite plan for reshaping its cornerbacks.
QB’s are by far the hardest position to forecast. Kizer has a much smaller sample size than Hundley, and was rated much higher heading into his draft class. Way too soon to condemn him for a crappy rookie year.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

I agree about QBs. Hundley is now 3rd QB or is gone. Probably the latter.

CBs? We'll see. How do they have the salary cap space to really remake the CB room? I dont' see it happening unless they create some massive cap savings through cutting one of the 4 vets or resigning ARod to a cap friendly deal.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

Ok, seriously - I don't really care - but I'd like to know who has been downvoting every single one of my posts for about 2 months. lol.

Hey AL!

Can we get a system like you had at allgpb.com where you can't vote unless you're registered and we all can see WHO is up or downvoting what? Thanks.

Nick Perry's picture

LOL....There's some serious haters here BM, many of us are having the same issues. They have the same system they had at allgbp.com on packerstalk.com.

BTW...I UPVOTED you! LOL

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

...and you got a downvote for your troubles, NP.

You see what happens when you hang around with the wrong crowd??? ;) HAHAHA!

fthisJack's picture

i'm usually right there with you, but not on this issue.

Razer's picture

I hear you. Ignore the person and rely on the interactions with those of us who care about the Packers

worztik's picture

Bear... I get down thumbs every day about 5’ after I write something! It’s a tad annoying, or at least it was initially, but, I know what I know and I trust my ability to judge talent and comment on the Pack!!! I waited 37 years for season tickets that we use and don’t sell for profit and I went through the early good years of the sixties and the not so great (at all) 70’s and 80’s so I feel I may comment here. I don’t know everything, far from it!!! But, I like what I like and I don’t mind saying it! There are a number of people on this site that talk smart in vague generalities and couldn’t find Lambeau Field with a google map!!! Ok... my rant is done for now! All I know is that most of us here love the Packers and that opinions are like sphincters... we all need to keep them tight!!!

worztik's picture

Not me Bear!!!

Jersey Al's picture

Well if you don't care, why are you asking?

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

I don't care. But if I see someone consistently voting down separate points.. either from myself or others, it might be nice to be able to ask them what they think.... Could contribute to the discussion.

worztik's picture

More negativity Bear!!! Keep it up!!!

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

lol. Use a few more exclamation points, please Worztik. ;)

worztik's picture

ON!!!!!!!!!! OK!!!!!!!!!!!

The TKstinator's picture

I look at it like this: the guys who are REALLY running the team (whereas I, myself, like to pretend to run it) know that the current roster is weak at CB and they’ve gotta do something. What exactly that is will be revealed in time.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I think the definite plan thing is a very questionable. There is no real plan. If the plan is to pay a FA CB whatever it takes, what if that FA CB just doesn't want to play in GB? Maybe they go to their next highest targeted FA CB, assuming he didn't sign with some other team while GB was still trying to get their top guy. If the plan is to sign House, we can do that right now.

GB's entire plan will be formulated during the legal tampering period.

Nick Perry's picture

I have a question... For example lets say the Packers go out and sign BOTH Trumaine Johnson and Mo Wilkerson to contracts when FA starts. By signing both they go OVER the salary cap by say $5 million. Can the Packers then make the necessary moves to get back under the cap?

OR

Do they have to have the cap space at the time of the signing?

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

The former. Reynoldo can answer more completely I'm sure. But it's a hard cap in the sense that you have to be in line at certain points of the year, but not at every point in the calendar.

Nick Perry's picture

I had a feeling it was the former too though I was hoping. I have a feeling this roster is going to go through some changes, hopefully for the better. One thing I'm sure of is they have a definite plan of attack for the CB position and it's going to START take shape in the next few days. If not then the Randall trade is totally baffling to me since they really have one starting CB.

worztik's picture

I am not a hater but, I believe if you pay it you cap it with no going back and backdating your check!!! I could be wrong but, I believe someone asked that on the Packers site a day or two ago! They better NOT BE GUESSING like we are...

stockholder's picture

I can't believe you want johnson or any free agent that wants 10 mil. plus. The stat ratio; just shows that your not getting the game changer you think they are. You Wouldn't have to let people leave GB if you don't overpay these guys. You know that they never could stand on their combine numbers! Their products of a system. Spotlight. Big money! The talent is fleeting.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

That's very true. FA's are overpriced - especially those signed in the first week. However, when you have a finite window to win with the best QB on the planet, it may not be a bad idea to push a few more chips to the center of the table without going crazy.

Besides, if Gute really wanted, he could effectively replace Jordy, Randall, or CM3 with a top tier FA at CB. They'd cost roughly the same.

Minniman's picture

There, I upvoted you Bear.

I wouldn't be .against putting a large contract in from of any target this FA - Johnson or Mo - as long as it's incentivized and isn't all loaded into signing and roster bonuses etc (all guaranteed).

Who begrudges paying a top performer?

From memory, and TGR can confirm, but Base Salary ISN'T guaranteed, meaning that a player can be cut without eating that much dead money - as will be the case with Randall, Jordy and especially CM3 this year.

Nick Perry's picture

It was an EXAMPLE...Hence..."For example"...

HankScorpio's picture

Once the new league year officially begins (next Wed, I believe), teams must be under the cap at all times---with the caveat that only the top 51 count until the regular season opens. Once the regular season starts, all active roster, practice squad and IR players count.

So the Packers could not submit a FA contract and make the room for it later. They would need to sit on the FA contract until they make the room.

All the big money in FA would go down before the draft. So there is no need to "set aside' the rookie pool money. They could go over the "veteran budget" temporarily by "borrowing" from the budget to sign the rooks. Then they can make the cap space to sign the rooks.

Nick Perry's picture

Thanks Hank..Got it.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

No. Absolutely no to the first question.
Maybe they have enough cap to sign both at the same time.

Hank's answer looks right to me.

Razer's picture

I like that I won’t have to see Randall looking around accusing others of blown coverage. He was the most immature, self-centred person on the team and we should be thankful the we got something for him. Yes it leaves us short at CB and that might mean a 2 year rebuild in the secondary. That unfortunately is the price of poor picks in past drafts.

If we can develop Kizer into a decent QB and a solid backup, he bridges us until our next gen QB is needed. Otherwise we get a 3rd rounder or trade value for him. That is significantly better than dealing with paying Randall a next contract at the end of this year. I see it as the best of a bad situation.

JohnnyLogan's picture

I LOVE this trade! First, you have only to watch video of Kiser and Hundley to see that Kiser is light years better. The kid is 21 years old and showed no fear. Stood in the pocket and didn't run 20 steps backward every time someone was within ten feet of him. Hundley is not an NFL QB. Kiser may be. That's enough for me. But there's more. Randall was the most overrated player on the team. Yes he had some picks. But he played soft, was beaten often, couldn't tackle... the ONLY reason he was highly regarded by so many was that the rest of our D was so awful. Capers was greatly responsible, as well as TT, for not recognizing that Hyde and Heyward were players, and for thinking Randall was. Hyde is slower than Randall and also was beaten at times but he was clearly a better football player. Back to the trade... we lose Hundley, Halleluyah!... we don't have to dish out money for a backup QB that would have handcuffed us on other fronts... we lose a soft no tackle CB defender... we get the equivalent of a 4th or 5th round pick, AND we move into one of the most coveted picks in the draft, the first pick in the 4th round. We can use it to pick a really good player who has inexplicably fallen, can use it to trade up into the 1st round to get one of the best CB's on the board, or trade up in the 2nd round to get a good edge rusher or TE who may have fallen. Slight added bonus is adding a couple mill in salary cap spending. Gute has earned my respect for coming out charging. There's little doubt in my mind that we'll have a better CB room this year than last once he's done. I LOVE this trade!

worztik's picture

So do I Mr. Logan!!!

Doug Niemczynski's picture

You must be employed in the packers org.
This was a bad trade. We did not lose Hundley McCarthy again reiterated that he believes in Hundley and it just wasn't his time. Oh lord.

worztik's picture

Doug... I’ve been nice with the thumbs down for you but, just when I believe you’ve changed, you let your nasty fingers run free and reinforce your stupidity!!! Just sayin...

Doug Niemczynski's picture

You have your opinion and I have mine and that is fine. I want the best for our team and I am not going to sugar coat the way i feel. I hope most of my comments are wrong for the Packers sake.

I have to be brutally honest with the way i feel
about the situation at hand.

I can only say thank you lord for getting rid of Dom Capers. If only for that reason its a winning season for the Packers!!

Doug Niemczynski's picture

I wish they had sideways thumb posts!

Doug Niemczynski's picture

How am I stupid? I think the Packers 2017 record pretty much showed the true colors without Rogers. In fact if Aaron Rodgers doesn't go down we have another year of Dom Capers. Cuz Aaron Rodgers covered up everyone's mistakes

And right now Mike McCarthy is on the hot seat!!

OrganLeroy's picture

Very well said Mr. Logan, too bad more fans can't seem to understand that perspective but are convinced they know how to handle this roster better than the professionals. We all are entitled to opinions, I take issue with the opinions that have morphed into statements of fact by the poster.

HankScorpio's picture

" the ONLY reason he was highly regarded by so many was that the rest of our D was so awful'

This needs repeating for the new members of the Damarious Randall Fan Club.

He was the best of a bad Packer CB group. That doesn't mean he was good. On his best days, he was average. Most of the time, you start rebuilding a unit by replacing the worst first. Apparently, Randall's attitude convinced the team that he needed to be gone first. Fine by me. Let's get on with the rebuild.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

No our D was not awful but CAPERS was awful.
BIG DIFFERENCE

stockholder's picture

I am thrilled to have Kizer! 6 "4"- A-Rods stats weren't the best either in 2005= 56.3% and 2006 =40%. ( Until he got plenty of prepping. ) Well done Gute. Hundley is done. This kid can run. His rushing yards and sack numbers show he was pushed out of the pocket to much. And thats the first thing the Packers must change. He must stay in the pocket. !/2 the job is done. This kids a winner. Who cares what he did in cleveland. Hundley had to go. We needed a QB and got one! Kiser may just thrive in the west coast offense. Touch Down Gute!!!

Colin_C's picture

I agree with you stockholder, though my ironic humor side finds it hilarious when you say "this kids a winner", when he literally didn't win a game last year. All kidding aside, I think he'll improve a ton over the next two years.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

He wasn't even much of a winner in College. He went something like 14-11 and that is with Notre Dame's 50% cupcake schedule.

worztik's picture

So am I Stock!!!

Community Guy's picture

Kizer is not AR12. he will not develop to that level. that said, the tape does show that Kizer still has a lot of potential. the Packers attempted to develop Hundley. probably they need to do even a little better to get Kizer to be who they want him to be. simply put: this trade pays for the Pack when Kizer develops and is developed.

jh9's picture

No doubt about it, BG has a mountain to climb. IMO, the Packers have to make a serious run at the Super Bowl this year or Aaron Rodgers will be out the door. I believe he wants to win one or two more Super Bowls more than he wants to be the highest-paid player in the NFL. He will not sit around and wait for the Packers to get their shit together.

As difficult as the task might be for BG, it’s not an impossible one. I think he’s on the right track. If he creates enough cap space to sign a high-quality free agent CB like Trumaine Johnson and Mo Wilkerson, all he needs to do is draft a talented edge rusher and solid CB to handle the slot. If he can do those things, this defense will make it easy for us to forget how bad we’ve been for the last seven years.

We all like Randall Cobb. But his contract is huge, and he is replaceable. The money saved by releasing him would pay for Johnson and we could afford Wilkerson, too.

Jordy has lost a step. It’s time to bring in another talented and fast WR. Jordy could take over Cobb’s position and become our slot receiver. Is that so bad?

I realize that none of this is an easy or a sure thing. But, in our division, the Vikings are going for it. If we don’t make aggressive moves and go for it too, DeShone Kizer will be our quarterback and then where will we be?

worztik's picture

You said everything correctly except your last comment on Kizer... give the kid a break and some time!!! Wouldn’t you want the same treatment if in his place???

jh9's picture

I did end my post with a ?

worztik's picture

Yes you did!!!

4zone's picture

We will see how much AR values another oneor two SB rings when we see his next contract.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

With what team?

Cubbygold's picture

I like your comments, but johnson seems overrated to me. Given the lack of depth at CB, id prefer they take their 12M and acquire two less hyped, but starting quality, CBs. The issue with going all in with johnson is that the team is basically screwed if he gets injured. Given that kings health is no guarantee, I'd like to see multiple viable options acquired

jh9's picture

I understand your comment, but we can't go into the season with two inexperienced outside CBs. Remember, Kevin King is essentially a rookie. If we start anyone other than the best veteran CB we can sign opposite of him, it will be a disaster.

But you're right. We do need more depth. Fortunately, this year's draft is deep at CB. We should draft one solid CB with our first pick in the 4th round. And we have something like five picks total in the 4th and 5th rounds. We may not find a starter there, but we should be able to draft some players to add depth.

dobber's picture

I tend to agree: it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of scenario to chuck so much of their available cap space into one player's (Johnson? Wilkerson?) basket. They've got to have the defensive help, and it has to be help that can contribute right away...not in 2020. Gutekunst is walking the wire in his first off-season as GM. I don't envy him.

jh9's picture

Let's hope BG is up to the task. I'd like nothing better than to look back in a few years at this time of uncertainty, after we have won at least one Super Bowl.

CheesyTex's picture

Do you think Davon House plus one free agent starting quality CB could be enough? Coupled with some luck in the draft, it could bring the unit to respectability.

jh9's picture

IMO, at this point in his career Davon House is a back-up CB at best. If we want to truly improve our passing defense, we need much better players.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I agree Cubby. I'd prefer say Breeland and Colvin to Trumaine and perhaps House/Twill. (And I am not locked in on Colvin and Breeland specifically - there are a couple others that look intriguing.) But I defer to whatever BG and the authors and regulars on this site think.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

"the Packers get a first-round talent"

Meh, the Packers got someone the Browns where stupid enough to draft there. Did you see him play at all? Kizer is something like 5-6 round talent.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Thank you.

John Kirk's picture

I'll throw some gas on the fire, but I believe Kizer was in a horrific situation so this little nugget is understandable, yet, alarming...

DeShone Kizer has an adj passer rating of 60 (100 = avg). That’s not just the worst rookie season in history on 400+ pass attempts. It’s actually the worst season in league history.

EDIT: On the flip, Mayock said this guy had the highest upside of any QB in last year's draft and he had him as his top QB, at least at certain points in March. Additionally, LT said on NFL Network that he thought Kizer was going to be better than any QB in the 2018 draft class...long term. So, obviously many feel and felt Kizer had a lot of developing left to do. His own HC, Brian Kelly, said he should've returned to school as did many others. You put a guy who isn't ready on the Browns? It's little wonder he was as bad as he was. My biggest worry is he played his worst football with games on the line in college and he didn't win a single game in CLE and they were in tight ones including against us.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

When did the folks on the comments here turn into a bunch of lemmings?

I wonder what the average count of games by Kizer have been watched by all of these Kizer supporters around here...

I'll go 1 which is the Packers game and sadly his top preformance of the year. If anybody around here didn't think Hundley was an awesome QB nobody is going to think Kizer is good either

Johnblood27's picture

I watched Kizer a lot at ND.

I am a big Golden Domer with multiple contacts on campus.

Kizer was so bad at taking care of the ball I nick-named him "The Pastry Chef" because he produced so many turnovers.

jh9's picture

LOL

John Kirk's picture

I saw Kizer quite a few times. I had Gordon in fantasy and wanted to watch him so I had to watch Kizer. He had over 400 pass attempts. That's some great experience. 2 of his last 4 games his passer rating was in the 90s. Of course, one of those was Dom's D, and then at Pittsburgh who Hundley also played well against.

Kizer was bad but you saw some great things that you didn't see from Hundley.

Jonathan Spader's picture

For example: no gum chewing.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

No more gum chewing is probably worth Randall.

Lare's picture

The one thing I take from this trade is that the Packers roster is probably going to look pretty different after the next month and a half.

And if that happens, it's a good thing.

John Kirk's picture

As we start to hear more and more about the Packers locker room, I find it interesting what a poor job Ted did bringing in the right personality fits. I used to read this goofy phrase, "Packer People", which clearly isn't and wasn't ever a thing. Ted not only couldn't draft that well he couldn't find good guys, either, which I think a lot of people assumed that he did and was part of his "charm".

Hopefully, Brian will find the right mix of talent and character that Ted did not.

This was a GREAT trade given the context that they were getting rid of Randall no matter what. To get a guy you wanted at 33 the previous year is outstanding value for a turd you were just going to flush and wash your hands and walk away from like Sitton. Ted got zip for Sitton. Brian got a potential franchise QB for Damarious plus moved up 13 spots to the top spot in Rounds 4 and 5. I'm ecstatic. This is something to build on:

https://twitter.com/The_Green_Gold/status/972582050028048389

One little issue from the article that I thumbed up, again, with calling Kevin King "solid". Where in the world are these commentaries coming from? He wasn't solid. He was non descript and not very good. A good tackler but he's here to shutdown WR's. He is not good at running with a WR down the field. I'm aghast that so many seem a bit comforted by his return next season like we have half the equation figured out. He's as big of a question mark as any guy we'd draft to play opposite him. It's even worse at CB than many view it to me.

I've been watching twitter to see if Rodgers or Kizer have commented on the trade. Neither have. Plus, Rodgers has a retweet of an Ichiro article from ESPN that might be saying something about how he's feeling about his life right now. Also, haven't seen a tweet from any Packer about Kizer, but I haven't been paying that close attention, either.

DRC was released by the Giants and I read some rumor about us maybe looking into Eli Apple. Can't imagine us looking into two headcases to replace the one headache we just traded, but we could have two NYG CB's playing for us next season.

stockholder's picture

DeShone Kizer will be our quarterback and then where will we be? Yep! (If A-Rod gets hurt! ) You just said a mouthful! You're judging this kid on the Browns. Not what Philbin is about to teach him. Not the West Coast offense. He's already seen NFL action. There is no NFL guessing now. He's got to perform and kiss Philbin's butt, if he wants to stay in the NFL. Green Bay is perfect for him. The training wheels are Off. How many other Qbs has green Bay brought in only to fail? Remember Evans etc. Bigger names and how about Flynn going to another system only to fail. Common the kid will be better than Flynn! The frosting on the cake was the draft picks. Watch and see if they don't trade them, to move up in the draft. And they don't have to waste a second round pick on a back -up. ( like Brohm) We've had failures. But 5-round talent does not start in the NFL. Production does. Don't judge this kid yet.

carlos's picture

Nice Lare and enjoyed the positive spin. It makes good entertainment for us Packer fans speculating the next moves.

carlos's picture

Nice Lare and enjoyed the positive spin. It makes good entertainment for us Packer fans speculating the next moves.

carlos's picture

Damn. Another double post.

Denise Chanterelle's picture

This is a good trade. We moved out a player who didn't want to be on the team and Hundley is now on notice. I also suspect the CB situation will be addressed shortly to the satisfaction of most here. Cheers.

dobber's picture

I fully expect that whatever changes are made at the CB position in the next couple months, most here will view it as inadequate.

Worry Bus, Inc., is now operating a fleet of air-conditioned coaches.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

I live in the deep south. We NEED AC down here. :P

dobber's picture

Been there, man. I lived in Macon for 7 yrs while teaching at Mercer.

carlos's picture

I live in the far north. On Lake Superior. Close to Green Bay. Upper Peninsula of Michigan. We’re Yoopers. We need heat.

Lare's picture

Some random thoughts-

1. It sounds like the Packers have been planning on getting rid of Randall for quite some time, I think its safe to say they have made plans on how to replace him. I expect them to act quickly once free agency starts.

2. I trust Pettine's input on players much more than I did Capers. Pettine knows defense and the players that will fit his schemes.

3. I trust Gutekunst much more than I trusted TT to make good player (and draft) decisions the last few years.

4. Although much is made about the Rodgers/Nelson/Cobb relationships, Rodgers is no dummy. He's been getting killed the last few years waiting for these slowpokes to try and get open. I'd bet he'll be thrilled to have better talent on the team and some decent WR's to throw to.

5. I know many fans hate to hear this, but the Packers need to rebuild. There's not as much talent on this team as many fans would like to think, but at the same time they can remain reasonably competitive with a few key acquisitions and because they have Rodgers. What they need is youth, speed, less expensive contracts and an upgrade in talent with competition at several key positions.

6. Just as other teams didn't judge Hayward and Hyde from their performance in GB, don't judge Kizer by his performance in Cleveland. Totally new scheme, new coaches, new situation. I can remember people pre-judging Rodgers after he was drafted and look how that turned out. Bottom line, if Kizer and Hundley don't succeed you replace them with someone with similar cap hit.

7. Although many fans like to think they know what's going on, none of us do. Regardless the loss of players like Randall, there is much more that was going on behind the scenes than any of us will ever know. I'll bet this was addition by subtraction and is a popular move with the other players.

8. I'll give the new Packers management and coordinators/coaches the benefit of the doubt until we see how things shake out this season. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure they'll have players at every position for every game.

9. We've already seen more changes in the last 2 months with this team than we've seen in the last 5 years. Win, lose or draw, it will be interesting to see how everything turns out.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Royalty Free GM's picture

Well said Lare, well said.

The TKstinator's picture

I’d say your 2 cents is worth more like seven or eight.

dobber's picture

We can buy in bulk at CHTV.

Archie's picture

This sounds like what people said when TT made all his bone-head moves over the last 5+ years. I out-drafted Ted every year sitting on my couch watching college football and reading the internet. Either you got it or you don't. Ted got lucky with one no-brainer pick (AR) and parlayed it into 10 years of killing us. The proof is in the pudding - look at our roster and our cap situation - they both suck. None of us know whether Gute is any better. As Packer fans, we can only hope.

This is a very tough trade to analyze for all the obvious reasons. personally I did not like it but I know some who did. It could pay off for both teams. Randall could turn out to be a really good free safety. Pack could hit the jackpot with Kizer. But the more likely scenario is that the trade will turn out fairly inconsequential for both sides. What we know now is that Randall is a starter and Kizer is not.

John Kirk's picture

Good stuff. ^^^^^ I especially liked point 5 and 6.

Bearmeat's Phantom Downvoter's picture

I was going to say the exact same thing.

jww061356's picture

I think Randall needed to go, and I think Kizer could be better than Hundley with the right coaching and system. I think this is a move in he right direction. We now have to almost completely revamp the secondary, and we move up n the critical 4th and Fifth rounds. I think we get one frontline CB. one depth corner, bring back what we have, and draft a corner high. We use the picks in combination with what we already have and try to get another pick or two in the Top100, where we grab an impact Edge, Impact TE, Corner, WR and OL. We slide McCray in as swing guy on the O-line. If we get Wilkerson, Trumaine Johnson, and maybe Tramon Williams, this would set us on the path being more competitive.

Lare's picture

I think we'll see Davon House re-signed. He played through injuries last year and by all accounts was a good locker room presence. Plus, he's only 28 and can be signed at a reasonable amount.

Personally I would rather not a see a Trumaine Johnson and/or Wilkerson signing if they have to break the bank to do so. They're available for a reason.

Royalty Free GM's picture

You have to pay big in this league to get impact players.
I don’t want to see anymore 7M Bennett type signings.
I would rather have one real good 14M player than two 7M Bennetts.

Archie's picture

IMHO, MM needed to go more than Randall.

dobber's picture

Closing in on the 'legal tampering period' for FAs. I, for one, am eager to find out if the Packers are going to be doing much tampering...

Lare's picture

Legal or not, I'll bet most deals were pretty well finalized at the combine.

dobber's picture

Maybe, but starting tomorrow, we'll likely hear whether the Packers are actively pursuing any of the "week 1 FAs".

Royalty Free GM's picture

C’mon, Kizer is not going to replace Rodgers even in the long run. He is just a cap wise backup plan. He will get his change when ARod turns 50 and retires ;)

You went bat crazy about this little move? :D
Oh my god, what we do now with our demolished secondary? ;)
Of course Gute has plans to upgrade our secondary and our team.
Overall this little trade move was a good one.

Trumaine & Wilkerson & Ridley
sounds better and better everyday. Let’s see if Gute has guts and skills to pull the big trigger.
Sign, cut, restructure, move up couple spots... I hope you have already sent them Packers jerseys with their name on it with a post card saying:
“From: (Next) Superbowl champions, let’s talk about number$...”

And something to remember...
“There is a tendency to stay with the players that won the championship – even if he isn’t as good as he was. And it’s the very human thing to do. However, there is no room for that type of emotion. Football is a hardheaded cold business. No matter what a player did last year, he must go if he can’t do it this year.”

fthisJack's picture

i like Johnson and Wilkerson and James! that would definitely add spark to the D. then DJ Moore in the second.

worztik's picture

Ok... I just went back and viewed Mike Mayock’s top 5 QB picks for the 2017 draft. He did 3 and here’s the top QB from each listing of his top fives:

1) Kizer

2) Kizer

3) Watson

I enjoy listening to Mike at the combine and I, and many pro teams, respect his judgement! So, for him to say that he felt Kizer was the top QB prospect in 2 of his 3 top 5 lists by position is good enough for me.

CAG123's picture

I mean we just traded a contributor and starter for the worst QB in the league last year who really knows what it means. I just hope those saying Randall needed to go don’t go switching up if he becomes a star with the Browns. Say what you want about Hundley but he at least won some games and kept the Packers afloat even if they were against the worst in the league. The Packers currently employ a guy that went 0-14 or 0-15 what is there really to be hopeful about?

OnWisconsinGoPack's picture

If Randall was truly looking at getting released, then obviously it's a great trade as we get something for nothing. We move up 13 picks in two different rounds and get another shot at QB who could be molded into a 1st round pick or strong backup. They missed on Hundley.

Although Randall was skilled, a decent slot CB, keep in mind we traded him to the team that has the staff that drafted him previously. Meaning there's a good chance they don't get the same return or a return at all from any other team.

If we put our eggs into the Trumaine Johnson basket or Malcom Butler, hopefully not the later, I'm okay with it assuming we get them here for a visit before they sign elsewhere. It may at least keep us from reaching in the draft if nothing else. Here's hoping we land one and they're Woodson 2.0

CAG123's picture

The staff that drafted has nothing to do with his performance on the field that’s a mix of coaching and the player. I never really believe these rumors of why a team did suchandsuch with a player they always seem to come out at the right time now all of a sudden the vet players wanted him gone as well yeah okay. They say he quit on the team because he sat out the last two games because of injury but then compare him to Devon House playing through injury as if Randall doesn’t have more to lose. Randall is a better player in his 3 years than House was in his 6 but guess which one they’re stuck with?

fthisJack's picture

not stuck with House...he's a FA.

OnWisconsinGoPack's picture

If Randall was truly looking at getting released, then obviously it's a great trade as we get something for nothing. We move up 13 picks in two different rounds and get another shot at QB who could be molded into a 1st round pick or strong backup. They missed on Hundley.

Although Randall was skilled, a decent slot CB, keep in mind we traded him to the team that has the staff that drafted him previously. Meaning there's a good chance they don't get the same return or a return at all from any other team.

If we put our eggs into the Trumaine Johnson basket or Malcom Butler, hopefully not the later, I'm okay with it assuming we get them here for a visit before they sign elsewhere. It may at least keep us from reaching in the draft if nothing else. Here's hoping we land one and they're Woodson 2.0

Cubbygold's picture

Terrible logic. I bet you think Joe Thomas is a poor O-lineman because his career win-loss record is so far below .500 too...

Royalty Free GM's picture

I’m so glad for Casey Hayward.
We were holding him back.
https://mobile.twitter.com/show_case29/status/972978991719215105
The ring part is wishful thinking though ;)

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

3 yrs/$36M with $20M guaranteed. Sounds like they tacked on 3 more years to his current deal.

bodei1newbie1's picture

Trumaine Johnson well good luck with that one i think the pack may be out of his price range but any way good luck i hope he signs but i really don't think they will get him what a mess ted has put the team in wow

jww061356's picture

Hopefully, we get a little leadership out of this as well in FA pool.

DD's picture

Please, Kiser? Give me a break! Kiser and Hundley are not very good. You say competition? Wow, now that's a real battle. Let's face it. If Rodgers goes down so do we. Neither QB is even an average QB. MM will develop Kiser? LMAO. Also, ever wonder why our defensive backs go to other teams and excel? Hayward signs extension with Chargers, Hyde all pro. Hello Packers!! Our problem is still with us, MM.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Insightful post as always DD. I had no idea MM was the DB coach for Hyde and Hayward. For once can you at least try to post something that's not negative and actually makes sense? On second thought keep posting garbage. At least it makes me laugh.

Chuck Farley's picture

OK so we got rid of a mal content and added a guy who couldnt read a defense if they put up signs showing where they are on the field. They already have one of those so now there is a pair.

Gut has been leaking to the gullible wisc press how the pack are going after this guy and that knowing dam well they got no money, Rogers will eat up everything and this team will be forced to rely on old has beens and late round draft picks again.

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