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Confessions of a Polluted Mindset: A Packers Brain Drain

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Confessions of a Polluted Mindset: A Packers Brain Drain

Gute: True or false: If Ted were still GM, the Packers call up one of their practice squad CBs to replace House instead of signing Breeland.

Defense: Gave up 323 yds in first half,  63 yds in the second half. Do we applaud the adjustments or lament the terrible start?

 

Aaron Jones: Everybody, and  I mean everyone, everywhere except Freakin' Mike McCarthy can see Aaron Jones can be a difference-maker for this offense. But why help out the gimpy quarterback? Nope, he starts off as RB #3. 

Lance Kendricks: dropper of passes at critical times...

Gilbert / Fackrell: Reggie Gilbert saw 24 snaps in last week's game. Kyler Fackrell had 23 snaps. Anyone else think this ratio is way different than what it should be?

NFL: What the NFL is trying to make pass rushers do is just physically impossible. How do you tackle someone without landing on them? Miami DL William Hayes tried - he's now out for the season with a torn ACL.

McCarthy: After kind of defending last week MM's strategy of calling timeouts on defense before the half to try to get the ball back in Rodgers' hands, he passed up the textbook situation in which to do so. With Washington on the 3 yard line, he chooses not to save clock, letting it wind down to 28 seconds as Washington takes two plays to score. Huh?

I'll just leave this here:

__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (116) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

PAPackerbacker's picture

My point exactly. MM needs to use the talent he has to start the game off quickly. Why abandon the run when it is producing great results? And why wait so long to use that talent? Playing 30 minutes of football is not going to win games in the NFL. MM and his game management forces the Packers to become one dimensional and then play catch up in the second half. Go to what works early in the game, not late in the game, and stick with it throughout the entire 60 minutes, not just the last 30 minutes.

GBPDAN1's picture

And all this leads to my ' aggravation of a frustrated mind'

Donster's picture

MM always abandons the run no matter what. Though he brags up his RB's at the press conferences. You have a bad offensive line, a QB playing on one leg, but you continue to depend on that QB to win your games for you. I guess that shows what little talent the rest of the team possesses, or the short mindedness of MM. Or both. MM needs to be fired. If they lose the next three games, he should be canned. Let Philbin take over for the rest of the season.

Spud Rapids's picture

Can we please stop with the McCarthy abandons the run.... You all forget that Rodgers has 100% autonomy to check out of plays. More likely scenario: McCarthy abandons what works because you all think he is an idiot.... or.... Rodgers checks into passing plays where he see a matchup or defense he likes. I'm going with #2. We know Rodgers has a propensity to hold onto the ball and try to make things happen yet everyone blames McCarthy for long developing routes. Let's be honest and start to push some blame on Rodgers as well. He is equally at fault if not more a fault for all we know.

ShanghaiKid's picture

I’m with you Spud. Rodgers needs to start shouldering some of the blame as well. Packers fans need to wake up and realize that Rodgers has full autonomy and control at the line. There’s no doubt he’s great and makes plays nobody else in the league ever has or probably will, but that doesn’t make him perfect.

Royalty Free GM's picture

Yes, why can injured Rodgers not just play sixteen perfect games! Let’s blame him.

Why can’t he just use our deep threats we don’t have.

Royalty Free GM's picture

We have already seen how sad this team is without Aaron Rodgers.

But we haven’t have privilege to see how great this team would be without Mike McCarthy.

Everybody else has already been hurt in this team! Why, oh why MM can not strain his eyes etc and transferred to PUP or CUP list?

croatpackfan's picture

I have 2 pretty solid (I think) observation.

1. As far as I understand, suspended player do not have right to practice with team (or?) and Aaron Jones came back from pretty severe hamstring injury. It looks to me like clever thing to gave him only limited number of snaps. Idea is to prevent hamstring injury. if you put the player in situation to go from zero to light speed in a second that may occur easily!

2. Reggie had 24 snaps and Washington were playing rushing game when he was in. Why? Because he is liability in rushing game. He did not keep the edge well. Sorry, but try to watch again and you'll find out. Fackrell is somewhat better in that, but in the last game not much better...

Otherwise, article is OK. But I disagree with your remark regarding MM & TO. Thank God he wasn't call them. Smith would score another TD how Packers played that 1st half...

Jersey Al's picture

Croat,

Aaron Jones returned to practice on Aug 12th. So he had 3 full weeks of practice with the team, then another two weeks of working out on his own and then another week of practice with the team. McCarthy declared Jones fully healthy and "looking real good" during this past week's practices. McCarthy's decision had nothing to do with health - all about a player "having to earn his opportunities."

I don't know that I've seen a player worse at holding the edge than Fackrell.

Tundraboy's picture

Exactly. MM is as much of a problem each week as the solution. I honestly cannot think of, or remember a single game where his coaching was the reason we won since '11.

Spud Rapids's picture

Well that's cause you wouldn't know if a win was because of McCarthy or not... how could you possibly know? You base the coaching on outcomes and cannot objectively look at whether or not the scheme worked. You could have the perfect play called but if players don't execute it won't mean jack squat.

Tundraboy's picture

No I dont base it simply on outcomes. I watch the games and MM is holding this team back more often than not.

Nick Perry's picture

Well wouldn't the players ability to execute the play fall on the coaching staff? Look McCarthy has had his day in the sun but for YEARS now we've watched McCarthy get out-coached time and again when it matters most (Playoffs).

Just look at how long he kept Capers. That SCREAMS MORON. The bottom line is McCarthy hasn't made too many game winning decisions in his entire career instead he's gotten more credit than really deserved because of TWO HOF QB's.

Tundraboy's picture

Stop it in NP you're starting to make too much sense. God forbid anyone criticizes fearless leader MM. I know I'm testier than normal but I'm just so frustrated. We added these players to fill the holes that we all knew needed filling last year, or at least most of them, players like Lewis,even bench players like Tonyan, had to be improvements over what we had before with RRod etc. Isn't it better to find out and get them real NFL game experience. And yet we're holding them back and playing jags like Fackrell and Kendricks. More than Gilbert and Lewis? Will we have to wait till the 7th 8th 10th game or more to even start playing some of the wide receivers we drafted.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

On the Game Changing Play article, after reviewing the highlight clip included in the article, I noted Gilbert crash down hard inside on 2 running plays. Peterson gained 21 yards on those two. I found 3 plays where Fackrell was put on the ground and Peterson ran for 61 yards or so on those three plays. That's around 85 of Peterson's 120 yard rushing day.

Interestingly enough, Jack Wepfer suggested that Gilbert might have been supposed to crash down hard on the first run. Maybe so, but I'm pretty sure Andy Herman warned us in a film review that Gilbert's habit of crashing hard inside carried some risk of allowing gashing runs. IDK, maybe Mr. Wepfer is right.

I think GB allowing 4.7 yard/carry isn't on the DL, it is on the OLBs and safeties. Brice missed Peterson 4 yards downfield and Peterson broke off a 41 yard gain.

dobber's picture

So what you're saying is that Reggie Gilbert = Jayrone Elliott 2.0?

croatpackfan's picture

Al, I do not try to correct you. That is my observation and I may be wrong. But, as we can see from how bad starters play on offense, it is not same effort to play at practoce or when you practice by yourself, and playing the NFL game.

I also enjoy how Aaron Jones plays and I think he should be consider as starter. However, Aaron Jones is not the best at picking blitzes, or in pass protection, so, when Packers will play to catch the opponent, I do not expect much of Aaron Jones there...

Regarding holding the edge, I have to admit I did not pay much attention on Fackrell. But I was intrigued with Raggie Gilbert and when he was in the game I tried to pay attention. It was not good, but to be honest noone were good vs Washington. Also, I believe that Clay and Nick hold the edge very well. Well Clay do that when he recognize the running play.

And, if I'm wrong and that will help Packers I will be more than happy to be wrong....

Jersey Al's picture

For sure, the amount of yards Peterson gained bouncing runs outside will tell you no one did a good job holding the edge.

Johnblood27's picture

see Biegel, Vince

dobber's picture

That's because Fackrell doesn't belong on the edge in a 3-4. On early downs, he would be suited for Ryan's old role in the middle, or maybe Martinez's role. He might be able to occupy lead blockers to free up other players to make tackles, but he's probably best-suited to flow with the play. Even then, he's probably not athletic enough and would leave us wanting more. I think he's really a weak-side OLB in an even front...but even then? Not fast enough.

Community Guy's picture

1. i see McCarthy's RBBC approach as a long-term approach for the season/post-season. yes, Aaron Jones is a valuable asset; however, there is a lot of football left, and, it would be great to keep all 3 of the runners healthy and fresh during the entire season. the Washington game was not the NFC Championship.
2. i feel that neither Gilbert nor Fackrell is the answer to the Packers EDGE needs. the reality is that both Gilbert and Fackrell will need to play for the Packers this year to keep a somewhat healthy and rested rotation. [and, we can all agree that Khalil Mack would have been a nice addition to that rotation, but, just maybe, would have been too expensive for the organization.]

RCPackerFan's picture

Gutekunst is no Ted Thompson!

There is no way thompson goes and signs Breeland when there is a need at CB. He would have brought up one of his own off his PS.

Speaking of CB look at the difference a year makes.
Last year in our CB's were Damarious Randall, Quinten Rollins, Davon House, Kevin King, Josh Hawkins, Lenzy Pipkins, Donatello Brown, LaDarius Gunter.

Comparing that to this year, we have 1 player left on the roster with King. Now we have Breeland, Williams, Alexander and Jackson. Much better!

Just going out and getting a guy of Breelands caliber this late is impressive. It may take a bit of time for him to get up to speed but he should help a lot as the season goes on.

Jonathan Spader's picture

TT might have signed a FA CB instead of promoting off the practice squad. The problem is it would have been Lenzy Pipkins or Gunther instead of Breeland.

RCPackerFan's picture

Exactly. It wouldn't be a player the caliber of Breeland.
This could be a huge signing!

dobber's picture

I think it's remarkable that a player like Breeland was still on the market at this point.

RCPackerFan's picture

The Saints were interested in him and were going to bring him in. I don't think he was going to last much longer.

Oppy's picture

It is my understanding it was his major infection of a wound and his resultant inability to pass a physical that has kept him out of contract until now.

4thand10's picture

I agree....the secondary was a dumpster fire before. Even though this secondary has made some mistakes the arrow is pointing up for this unit. The only thing that would have been better is keeping Burnette and ditching HaHa. Burnette seemed to be more of a leader and definitely tackles better. I’m secretly hoping Josh Jones pulls it together. If Whitehead played in HaHa s place....I wouldn’t lose sleep. After last year and now this year...I just don’t see it in HaHa right now.

dobber's picture

For a guy who has a chance to earn some money and security--despite the lax market for safeties--HHCD has done little to show he cares.

4thand1's picture

What's with these Alabama guys and not playing hard, Lacy now Ha Ha? My scouts should look for players who don't tend to take plays off.

Jonathan Spader's picture

4thand1 JK Scott is playing hard. Lacy played hard he just also ate hard.

4thand1's picture

JS no disrespect but punting will never be considered playing hard,lol. Lacy and haha seemed to play hard the first 2 years and disappeared.

Rossonero's picture

Lacy was actually averaging a career high 5.1 YPC in 2016 before he went on IR. Contrary to popular belief, Lacy was in shape in 2016. It was 2015 when he was overweight.

Oppy's picture

No, he was not in shape in 2016. It was the first year he started running his size instead of playing like a scat back though, and he was gaining yards running behind his pads for a change.

Yes, he played great while healthy. No question, but often ignored. However, it was his weight issue that made a routine ankle injury an insurmountable obstacle to ever getting back to healthy and back on the field.

Rossonero's picture

"First year he started running his size?" Huh? Lacy ran with a bruising style ever since his rookie year. I don't know where that observation is coming from. Even McCarthy said years ago that "Lacy doesn't waste steps."

I love how everyone becomes a doctor with Lacy's injury. "He was fat in 2015, therefore in 2016, that's why he got hurt." Wrong. You do realize that he had two screws, wires and a plate surgically implanted into his ankle. You call that a "routine" ankle injury? Yeah right!

More evidence Lacy was in great shape going into 2016 after finishing P90X:
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2016/5/10/11648900/packers-90-man-ros...

Oppy's picture

Written in MAY.
It was well noted that Lacy looked to be playing at closer to 250 by the time he was injured.

And, YES, Lacy was gaining weight from the moment he entered the NFL, and, YES, he was CONSTANTLY still trying to spin move and Juke even DB's in the hole instead of dropping the shoulder and running through them. Many of us who watch the games listened politely while people talked about his "bruising" style, looking at his body but not his play. He always played to cut, juke, and spin first, contact only as a last resort. The problem was, he wasn't the 230 lbs Back who was nimble for his size that he was at Alabama anymore. He had become the 245, 250 rumbling RB who should have been wearing down defenders by punishing them for the extra yard. Instead he still thought he could evade them.. even when it was a small defender.

I'm sorry, Rossonero, but Lacy did not play the position to his body until his final season, and yes, his weight did contribute to his inability to recover. IIRC, he attempted to return after the initial injury, and re-injured the ankle.

There's a reason why the Packers cut ties after what was a promising start in 2016. It's because Lacy was eating himself out of being a viable NFL RB.

Rossonero's picture

Oppy,
You do realize that from 2013-2016 Lacy ranked 4th in the NFL in broken tackles per PFF? And that includes his shortened 2016 season.

Sure, he did a spin move maybe once a game, if even that. But to paint him as a guy dancing away and scurrying out of bounds is factually incorrect.

Secondly, you say he "always" tried to evade contact. Nobody "always" does anything. If he was constantly dodging people, then why did he break so many tackles?

Yes, of course he got up to 250 lbs. in the pros. Everyone gains weight after college. He did and he was the bruiser we hadn't had in decades.

The way our fan base chewed him up and cast him aside was utterly disgraceful. This was the best RB we've had since John Brockington in 1971 and all I heard was fat jokes and giggling. Unreal and talk about ungrateful.

Of course, we haven't had a 1,000 yard rusher since he left. What a surprise.

I've already stated my position on his gruesome injury. Nothing about it was routine. Yes, he rushed back to play too soon and made it worse. Lots of players play too soon.

Diagnosing people from a distance (even if you're a doctor), is not realistic or fair to the player, but go ahead and pass judgment if you want.

Regarding your last comment about cutting ties, you forget that the Packers made a similar offer to Lacy that the Seahawks did. They did not outright reject him and not offer anything. The Packers still had interest and rightfully so.

Oppy's picture

I never made fat jokes about lacy, and i never discounted his production or his contributions to the Packers.

Should you choose to do so, go back to articles here on CHTV from 2016 about lacy and read my comments. I was one of the few vocally pointing out he was having a great season before his injury.

Lacy didn't go down easily, that's true. But he consistently sought to avoid contact. One of Eddy's glaring weaknesses was his goal line performance- noteably because he tried to juke, spin, and dance in the hole more often that getting behind his pads, hitting the crease hard, and bulling his way for a two yard TD. Perhaps we have differing opinions of what a bruising, physical back plays like. Compare the style of Jerome Bettis, Marshawn Lynch, or even a young AP to Eddy Lacy, and I think the difference is clear.

Rossonero's picture

I'm glad you were a supporter of Eddie Lacy in 2016 and not part of the peanut gallery.

I already demonstrated with PFF's stats that Lacy ranked 4th in the NFL in broken tackles behind only Marshawn Lynch, Demarco Murray and LeSean McCoy. That's elite company, is it not?

Since you claimed his goal line performance was bad (an opinion, not a fact), I went back and looked at Lacy's stats for rushing attempts inside the 5:

2013: 9 TDs out of 13 attempts
2014: 5 TDs out of 10 attempts
2015: 3 TDs out of 7 attempts
2016: 0 TDs out of 3 attempts

Total: 17 TDs out of 33 attempts, 52% success rate

The 52% success rate is more than acceptable and on par with elite RBs. Some examples from 2016:

LeGarrette Blount had 12 TDs on 24 attempts inside the 5, 50% success rate

David Johnson had 12 TDs on 22 attempts, 55% success rate

In 2015, AP was 4 of 14 (29%) inside the 5 and
Devonta Freeman was 5 for 11 (45%) inside the 5.

In 2014, Marshawn Lynch was 6 for 14 (43%) inside the 5.

In 2014, LeSean McCoy was 3 for 9 (33%) inside the 5.

If you don't like how Lacy runs aesthetically, that's fine, but the data over the years shows clearly -- and beyond any doubt -- that he performed at an elite level breaking tackles and inside the 5 yard line.

Oppy's picture

Rossonero,

I appreciate your fact based response and I can not contest real data.
I will admit I'm surprised his TD percentage inside the 5 is that high, my memory has his failing more than he actually did. Can you get his splits for inside two yards? At any rate, i still contend that throughout Lacie's career, and indeed, as it progressed through the years, he left many yards on the field because he often sought to out-maneuver faster defenders (and failed) when he certainly had the size and strength to run through them.

It is also telling that his numbers steadily dropped each year of his career.

Rossonero's picture

Oppy,
You're welcome. Thanks for being receptive to the data. Inside the 5 splits are the closest thing I could find.

I'm no psychologist, but in my undergrad days, I learned that our perceptions influence our memories. And if you perceive Eddie Lacy in a negative way, then you're more likely to also remember him in a negative way.

One could argue that 2016's data could be thrown out because the numbers, at face value, do not represent a whole season's worth of attempts. I probably should've had an asterisk next to it.

As for why his attempts went down, there are any number of reasons for why that could be. His attempts slightly decreased in 2014, but he still had a terrific year.

We can't draw conclusions merely from attempts alone. 2015 saw a rash of injuries on the offensive line -- it's plausible that the Packers had more confidence in Rodgers throwing it rather than handing off to an overweight Lacy.

Oppy's picture

more than simply attempts inside the 5, but production as a whole.

I would also note that overall i have never thought of Lacy negatively- simply thought he would have been even more productive and useful to the offense as a whole if he played more to his size first, agility second. Particularly as each year passed and he put on more weight.

Rossonero's picture

Well, back to back 1,000+ yard seasons in 2013 and 2014 was outstanding production. Enough to be named Offensive Rookie of the Year too.

I'm not sure what sort of numbers you'd be expecting, but he was incredibly useful. In 2013 when Rodgers went down, he was Flynn's best friend and a huge reason we were able to squeak into the playoffs later on.

2015 his production obviously was not good enough. 2016 is a small sample size, but he was averaging 5.1 YPC.

Is there data to show he was steadily gaining weight each year? I don't recall McCarthy complaining about that -- just 2015 only.

Arthur Jackson's picture

You may have had some good points but best running back since Brockington blew the deal. Ahman Green was the best.

Oppy's picture

double post deleted

Community Guy's picture

there is a theory that Saban gets the most out of the 'bama guys and that they begin to burn out as they enter their NFL careers.

Minniman's picture

I too have seen this trend and posted a couple of months ago that if GB want to continue to draft Alabama players, then they need to resolve what it is that Saban does that they do not - although this isn't limited to GB.

The exception to this being Landon Collins for the Giants who is still excelling (albeit with injuries at the moment).

RCPackerFan's picture

Currently from last year only 1 CB is left on the roster. That is just crazy.

I do want to see Jones play. I'm not sure he is the centerfielder we need, but I want to see him play.

Community Guy's picture

excellent observation RCPacker.. that is a big turnover from last year!

flackcatcher's picture

Turnover of the secondary, no choice. This was a group who could not stay on the field. Not sure that keeping HHCD as key for rebuild was right move, but salary cap made that the only real possible move preseason. There are questions about Breeland quickness on field. But that is a function of the front office idiots who love the measurable, rather than look at how he has play the position.

Royalty Free GM's picture

There is no way TT would have brought FA Charles Woodson. No way.

Really, what big successful moves have Gute done so far?
None. Zero.

He got Kizer!! Genius!!

So far he has blown Ridley, Trumaine, Mack...

Our WRs are soooo slow.
Our corners lack of talent veteran leadership.
We have no pass rush.

Gute: Let’s not fix these things...

Royalty Free GM's picture

There is no way TT would have brought FA Charles Woodson. No way.

Really, what big successful moves have Gute done so far?
None. Zero.

He got Kizer!! Genius!!

So far he has blown Ridley, Trumaine, Mack...

Our WRs are soooo slow.
Our corners lack of talent veteran leadership.
We have no pass rush.

Gute: Let’s not fix these things...

Jonathan Spader's picture

For our corners not having CB veteran leadership what do you call Tramon Williams?

For Gute he just signed Breeland, in the off season he signed Graham and Wilkerson.

For our WRs Adams has been borderline unstoppable. Allison has been a model of consistency. Cobb looked great against Chicago and awful against Washington. We have plenty of speed in rookie WRs who just need experience.

RCPackerFan's picture

Aaron Jones -

The guy is Special! We saw that on his very first run.

I do think part of the reason he wasn't used more was because he missed most of camp with a hamstring injury. And then he was suspended for 2 games. The smart idea is to ease him back into the game. As Nagler always says, there's a lotta ball left.

I thought McCarthy explained fairly well why he didn't call timeouts at the end of the half. He had Bulaga out and then McCray was also hurt. He didn't know what he had for OL. I can't argue with him there.
That being said, IMO he should have still used 1 timeout. Give Rodgers a chance. Its all he needs.

Speaking of the OL, they are already saying Bell will be the starter. If Bulaga cant go the Right side is going to be weak. I hope they start Lewis!
Lewis deserves a lot more playing time and Kendricks deserves a lot less. In all honesty I would even play Tonyan more. While Kendricks drop was one of the many missed opportunities in the game, that drop essentially sealed the game. Had he hung on they had plenty of time and would have had the ball at the 50. Who knows what happens after that.
The way Tonyan was catching the ball in the preseason, I give him a chance!

dobber's picture

To be honest, I'm not sure that Bell is much of a step down from McCray. Don't get me wrong: I appreciated McCray for what he did a year ago, but we're not seeing him stabilizing that RG spot. He's consistently the weak link. If this were an OL full of all-pro's, it would be a different matter. Here's hoping Bell or Patrick is at least an incremental step up, but RG is a problem--in my mind--on par with S and OLB...especially with Bulaga hurting.

splitpea1's picture

We need to use one of our top three or four picks to reinforce the right side of the line. That's where that extra pick may come in handy. With such an expensive QB, the we definitely want to plug any potential leaks up front.

RCPackerFan's picture

If I had my choice right now of what I hope they get with the 2 1st round picks next year, it is Safety and OLB.
They need more pass rush and need more help on the back end of the defense.

RCPackerFan's picture

McCray hasn't played that great, but I thought he was 'ok' and has improved.
Bell I don't think is much worse. So I don't think we will see much of a drop off.
The biggest issue is if Bulaga can't play.

I hope they use Lewis more, and not just in protection. Use him in the passing game too.

ArlenWilliams's picture

Just let things develop and R - E - L - A - X.

4thand1's picture

E-L-A-X this team is scaring the shit out of me.

Skip greenBayless's picture

E-X-L-A-X

4thand1's picture

oops I f up when I'm pissed. E-X-L-A-X

Bedrock's picture

And yet the play calling was actually really good against Washington. What lacked was execution. Rodgers was off and didn’t look for guys; he looked to get rid of the ball quickly. I don’t fault MM play calling this time. He was aggressive, which is usually the complaint most have against him. He tried to get the lead early.

However....
If we would run the ball more, the OL could be the aggressors and put a little hurt on the DL. It would help our D. It would protect A-Rod, etc.
The decision to not have Jones in there more is pass protection.

Jersey Al's picture

Rodgers himself said this week that more of a running game would help him out, especially with making play-action more effective. Duh. Who knew?

RCPackerFan's picture

My question with that is how many called running plays did Rodgers check out of?

That is the hard part about blaming play calling is we don't know what the original play that was called vs what actually gets ran.

We can blame who is on the field. I agree Jones needed more touches. Which he will get as the season goes on.

4thand10's picture

Running game keeps the opposing offense off the field, it rests the defense, it can soften the other teams rush...it does ALOT. However, playing 14 to 17 points down before the first quarter is even over with in 2 of the last 3 games it didn’t appear that was a choice. But given the fact of how quickly Rodgers can score, I agree that they could have continued running for a bit longer, or tried more screens on some of the crucial blitzes.

Spud Rapids's picture

RC this is exactly what I've been saying! We point fingers at McCarthy for lack of run game but how often is Rodgers checking out to pass plays where he likes the matchup? We have no idea and we should equally place blame on both of them.

RCPackerFan's picture

I do find it funny whenever a play doesn't work, its usually the play callers fault (McCarthy).
When it works, its what a great play by the players.

We just simply don't have access to what play call is coming into the huddle and what is actually ran.

Zach Kruse yesterday posted a lot of gifs of plays ran. And the WR's/TE's were getting open. Rodgers either didn't see them, or simply held the ball to long or the pass rush got to him. Schematically though there were a lot of opportunities there for them.
For that I think the play caller/play designer did a good enough job to win the game.
They simply didn't execute.

Oppy's picture

RC, that’s par for the course over the years. There’s WRs open.. but people can’t bring themselves to see Rodgers isn’t flawless.

Jersey Al's picture

Well, I would find it a curious juxtaposition for Rodgers to be checking out of running plays and then comment during the week that more of a running game would help him.

RCPackerFan's picture

Doesn't he have the option to check to running plays though? And they talk about the RPO plays they run.

Of course it doesn't help that in the game they ended up falling behind early.

I just see so many blaming McCarthy for play calling. When in reality Rodgers should share some of the blame for that IMO because I have no idea how many plays that are being called in are being run.

Oppy's picture

Let’s just say that I think Rodgers knows how to feed the media the words he wants to portray things in a certain way.

4thand1's picture

What do juxtaposition mean?

Rebecca's picture

Many of these posters are speculating that Rodgers checks out of running plays since he is in charge with full autonomy. What’s the truth here? Have any of the sports writers asked either Rodgers or McCarthy what the deal is with so few running plays? Obviously they’ve fallen into deep hole in the first half of 2 out of 3 games. Still, I don’t think running the ball was in much of the game plan against the Redskins, but sucking for 1/2 of the game on offense and 1/2 on the defense seems to be part of the plan. Just Kidding!

Minniman's picture

Between your comment Rebecca re the journo's not asking MM and Rodgers what's going on and Oppy's comment re Rodgers playing the media by judicious drip-feeding comments is the real question - just who is calling the shots.

I'm starting to form the opinion that MM is actually well and truly on the hot seat - it was well commented last year that changing GM, DC, OC AND HC was probably too big a change.... but with some of the play calling becoming questionable to even average fans and Rodgers starting to publicly distance himself from it, I wonder if the end of season positioning has already started?

Note: This isn't me jumping on the fire MM bandwagon, just looking at the pieces (perhaps prematurely and incorrectly)...... after all it's one thing to fire someone, but their replacement has to be an upgrade.

flackcatcher's picture

This is a transition year for the entire organization. Who will be Packer President after Murphy still is an open question (Murphy's contact ends this year). IAMGUTE has a one year with an extension, but that is the executive committee call, not the Packer President at the moment. And McCarthy's contract extension ends this year. I suspect many of the decisions regarding the Packer President position and GM spot have already been made by the executive committee. The only call left is the head coach, and that won't be made until after the season. Packers have too much respect for MM to dump him in mid season.

Minniman's picture

for sure, the Packers are definitely not a fire mid-season type of organization and MM is a known and (still?) respected quantity inside of the organization. I'm just saying that in his 13 year tenure at GB, the extension past this year is the least certain that it's been in that time; and I'm also wondering if Rodgers' positioning is actually supporting that.

Tundraboy's picture

Guess it's a matter of the timing of the running play and which running play. Perhaps,it could be Rodgers snarky way of throwing a dig at McCarthy for stopping and starting with Monty, Jones or whoever.

Three and Out's picture

I'm not someone who wants someone to lose their job, but McCarthy's time has to be winding down. Being here for as long as he has been has made him comfortable and the results of that are showing every week.

RCPackerFan's picture

What is McCarthy doing that is showing each week?

I have seen numerous people calling for McCarthy's head. While some are warranted what specifically from the Redskins game should McCarthy be fired for?

For Cobb, Kendricks dropping 3rd and 4th down passes? For Rodgers missing open WR's?

Sure we can be upset about not playing Jones or Lewis enough. I agree with those.

True or false, the Packers game plan was good enough to win the game, but the players simply didn't execute well enough?

dobber's picture

He also wasn't responsible for those PI calls in the first quarter that helped the Redskins jump out to that early lead. Some of those were atrocious.

RCPackerFan's picture

Right.

They had what 4 holding calls? 1 took away what would have been a first and goal at the 5 when Rodgers ran up the middle to get the first down.
I don't remember the others. I know one took away a first down by Montgomery who ran his ass off to get the first down. The other 2?

Johnblood27's picture

Hey trees, here is the forest...

MM gave the team a full practice day OFF this week.

With the reduced practice time due to CBA rules, that is incredibly STOOPID!!!

That is what happened this week that MM is most to blame for.

He didnt play the starters at all during exhibition season, then he gives everyone a full practice off when the team was looking disjointed and inconsistent.

He just plain needs to go.

Im not saying he is a bad coach, he is just no longer a fit for winning football with this group of players in this location.

His time has come and gone, it is the other MM's time to make a move or his time will be up as well.

Minniman's picture

dobber, i would think that indirectly poor technique causing transgression penalties does ultimately fall back on the coaching staff.

dobber's picture

Perhaps the position coaches, but not MM, per se. Yes, the buck stops with him.

JohnnyLogan's picture

Seems like an annual problem for the offense is Rodgers holding the ball too long, then he settles down as the year goes on. This team will get better but isn't a SB team as long as the glaring deficiencies aren't corrected; pass rush, safety and OL depth... and GM. i have been writing it every day and every weekend it becomes more obvious, Gute failed his first big test. Mack has reshaped the NL Central. If the Bears every get a QB they're the best in the division. It was a unique opportunity to get a likely future Hall of Famer and he could have trumped the Bears by offering his two firsts and adding a second. The Bears two firsts figured to be better than ours but they only added a third and got back a second. Easy offer to beat and Gute flinched. It was revealing as to his TT training, but more importantly, an opportunity he may never get again. Huge fail.

4thand10's picture

Are you kidding me? The Bad news bears are not going to a Super Bowl even with Mack. Book it. The money, the picks given up and the contracts with Perry and Clay wouldn’t allow it. Mack would have been great in GB, I’m in full agreement on that but that price tag.....So Mack plugs 1 of 5 holes on this team....the money and the picks would not be there to fill the other 4. Chicago won’t even have the money to sign a QB they have so many FAs they are paying.

Next year alone we’re looking at at least 2picks going to edge, 1 DL , 1 or 2 OL and possible WR. Your not going to fill all those with 5ths.

JohnnyLogan's picture

Same silly song every year 4thand10, we've got all these draft picks to fill our holes so no trading them away, they're too valuable. That mindset didn't work for TT and it won't work now. Think you'll get someone like Mack with the 25th pick in the draft? Or even if you pair up your two first rounders to move up to 10, maybe, maybe you'll get someone as good. Unlikely but could be. But that mean you've used up both #1s. You may have a pretty good player, but for the cost of an additional 2nd rounder, you KNOW you have a great player. I don't give a damn about the Bears. I care that this team, even if it makes the playoffs, can't get far because the D is still awful without a legitimate pass rusher. It's negating the good job Gute did in drafting those CB's. None of you may agree with me but this will hurt the Pack for years. It also showed that Gute not only missed an opportunity but is likely to miss more because, like TT, he's only willing to go so far. I say it again, he flinched and it was a huge fail.

Lare's picture

Gutekunst's future as a GM will be decided on how he does next offseason. IMO, he gets a pass this offseason because he only got to work with what Ted Thompson left him, which wasn't much. But next offseason he'll have quite a bit of cap space and draft picks to work with if he cuts some of the over-the-hill non-productive players on this roster (i.e. Bulaga, HHCD, Matthews, Kendricks, Cobb, Perry, Montgomery). In that case, he can be fairly active on the free agent market and finally fill some of the glaring holes on this roster.

Unfortunately, if Murphy had replaced Thompson two years ago we'd probably be enjoying a rebuilt and competitive Packers team right now. Instead we'll have to wait another year or two before that can happen.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Maybe make Gute's 2nd big test open book?

JohnnyLogan's picture

What would that book say about trading for Mack depends on who wrote it. If it was TT, then Gute passed the test. If it was Wolf then he failed.

Since '61's picture

Al - first off, it's true TT never signs Breeland but instead promotes a UDFA off the practice squad. Fortunately TT has been moved aside.

Gilbert should have 3-4 times as many snaps as Fackrell. I would only use Fackrell in an emergency or to give another OLB a one or 2 play breather at the most.

Jones needs more touches. I realize that Williams is in there for pass pro but having Williams in there enables Aaron to check out of run plays to pass plays far too often. If jones were on the field maybe AR would actually give him the ball more often.

Play Lewis instead of Kendricks. I don't know what we are waiting for.

Except for the last quarter of the Bears game and part of the Vikings game the Packers just are not playing aggressively as a team. I'm not talking about play calling I'm talking about physically and mentally. They just have not played with much confidence and they are not attacking on offense or defense. I was expecting Pettine to instill a aggressive, take no prisoners, sense of urgency in the defense and it has yet to happen. They have started the Bears and Redskins games very flat. This needs to change NOW.

Yes, the defense played better in the 2nd half against the Redskins but it was too little too late and the Redskins went very conservative in the 2nd half. They actually helped the Packers defense out, but it worked for them.

As for the roughing the passer calls, they have ruined 2 of the Packers games and at least several others around the league. Will the league correct this? Who knows?

Speaking for myself they have made the games unwatchable and they aren't protecting anyone. They are actually creating more opportunities for injuries to the QBs and the defenders. While the equipment could stand to be improved, especially the head gear, the equipment is designed to absorb the hits that are currently being flagged. When you force "abnormal" movements or hits the equipment will not protect the players properly. Can these people really be this stupid??? Regrettably they have demonstrated repeatedly how stupid they are. Thanks, Since '61

Jonathan Spader's picture

The drawback to all of this roughing the passer penalties is if I was an NFL player and I knew I'd get a flag/fine no matter what I did I'd at least make it count. Trying to make the game safer in this fashion could easily make it more dangerous if they continue to frustrate player like CM3.

dobber's picture

The issue for CMIII now: he's going to be viewed--unreasonably so, I would assert--as a problem child by the league because he can't play within those rules. Refs keep an eye on players like that. I don't know if I'd "make it count" in that it opens you up to fines. The players who are getting in trouble are players who get free runs on the QB. Maybe the 'new sack' is holding the QB up and waiting for the in-the-grasp whistle. Maybe it's twisting and falling on your back or side with the QB on top. Who knows...but it's making the current generation of players think rather than just play.

mnklitzke's picture

Why no love for Lewis? let the big boy chip with the tackle. Dude is 6'6" and can catch. Why not give him the nod over sir drops a lot, kneeling protester Kendricks.

4thand10's picture

I’ve been saying this for 3 games.

Johnblood27's picture

Why in the F did Sir-Drops-A-Lot (absolutely great nickname for Lance, BTW, mad props!) even make this roster?

Tonyan looked Waaaay better and with Graham and Lewis we do NOT need a token "veteran" presence at the position.

Kendricks mailed it in last year, just like Jordy (see where that got him?) and HaHa (who should be DFA'ed in MLB jargon).

Hard decisions for big boys. 1265 has only children currently making decisions I guess. Maybe thats what we should expect with Howdy-Doodie as the CIC.

Nuff said...

Lare's picture

I know I'm in the minority, but I do think there are ways for defensive players to neutralize the QB and not be penalized. It's called "in the grasp". We used to see it frequently but then defensive players evolved into hitting the QB every chance they could so I can't remember the last time I've seen it called.

Granted, it's difficult for players going at full speed to rein themselves in but if that's what they have to do to not hurt their team then they need to try something. You see players do it all the time when they avoid hitting a QB after he's released the ball.

Many players (both defensive and running backs) have learned this year to not lead with their helmets and incur a penalty. There have also been numerous other rule changes players have adapted to. So why is it so impossible for certain defensive players like Matthews to figure out some way to neutralize a QB without being flagged?

Jonathan Spader's picture

Lare, we've already seen the problem with your in the grasp solution when Mike Daniels hugged Cousins. He had him pinned up with the ball in his hands and the play should have been whistled dead. Instead Cousins threw the ball for a gain. In the grasp only works if the refs do their job and so far this season I have no confidence in their ability to do so.

pacman's picture

How many times have we seen the Pack play bad first half? Too many! Why can't they correct 'it' immediately rather than wait for half time? We have a new O and D coach and we get the same things.

Not sure why we brought back Philbin after flaming out in Miami. Even though AR has a bum knee, with the addition of Graham and 3 good WR's, we should have a better clicking offense than we have seen.

Pettine is probably getting nervous.

Is it time yet to start calling to get rid of MM now and show that there is some responsibility? Seems a bit crazy but I'm just tired of the same outcomes.

nostradanus's picture

The Pack always seems to start games slow and try to play catch up late.

Solution: let Rodgers call the plays and just go no-huddle, quick pass the whole game.
It seems that is all that ever works, just do it already.

Or just play catch up every game, Big Mike is going to stubborn himself out of a job one day.

Community Guy's picture

in each game, there is a chess match going on between offensive and defensive play-callers.. i am heartened that the Packers improved in both the Bears and Washington games.. it concerns me that, with the officials' help, the Packers lost the 4th quarter v. the Vikings.

Lare's picture

In an interview years ago, Holmgren said he ran a certain number of scripted plays at the beginning of every game ( I think he said 15) so that he could identify the defensive formations and how the defense was going to set up and play each offensive formation & play. He would then adjust the play calling until halftime to try and counteract what the defense was doing. They then would re-evaluate at halftime and make any needed adjustments then for the second half.

I'm not sure if that is how McCarthy runs things, but I imagine most teams do something similar.

Johnblood27's picture

Enough already with the schemes and adjustments.

How about some accountability for EXECUTION!!

Every coach-team runs scheme and makes adjustments.

Messages get stale (see MM impact)

Time to place a boot firmly in the asses of those expected to perform.

MM needed to get the team better prepared in pre-season. He did not. I dont want to hear injury risk, just stop already. play the damn game aggressively and you dont get hurt.

The players have carried over the "QUIT" present throughout the roster from the great Hundley debacle. His poor play influence is still being felt in ripples through the roster. Not every player, but enough to make a difference and pollute the remaining players.

Big changes are needed. The whole off season and exhibition season everything was "under wraps". Well... Im still waiting...

Nothing has changed.

A few faces. That means nothing. Attitude (from leadership) is completely lacking.

From Management... nothing
From Coaches... nothing
From Players... Even less, they do not seem to think that winning matters. It is just an ephemeral concept that gets stumbled upon randomly.

The NFL has gone to hell. Im done with it. The CBA amd workplace control in the hands of the players began the downfall of product quality.

The league office and their overbearing control of the product finished it off.

This is a crap product and should be scrapped.

4thand1's picture

Bench Kendricks, Fackrell they've both had time and aren't producing. The only way Gilbert will improve is more snaps in real time. He may give a big run or two but if he comes up with a sack or forced fumble it's worth it. MM is notorious for not playing young guys even when his vets who know the system suck. Our elephant of shitty safety play is back in the room. They seriously need to cut ties with Perry, Fackrell, Kendricks,pick up the phone and make a deal for Earl Thomas.

LambeauPlain's picture

Sacking the QB isn't allowed anymore. A sack = 15 gain by the opposing offense.

Lare's picture

We don't have to worry about guys like Perry & Fackrell getting roughing the passer penalties, they never get any sacks in the first place.

Oppy's picture

Perry had more sacks per snap in 2017 than Khalil Mack, among other notable pass rushers.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packers-17-washington-31-game-balls-lame-c...

Rossonero's picture

McCarthy is digging his own grave via his same old stubbornness.

Aaron Jones is playing well? Give him limited touches!

Fackrell is playing bad? Give him MORE touches!

A hobbled Rodgers says he needs help via the running game? Call more pass plays!

We've fallen behind by big margins early on in 2 of 3 games? Let's keep droning on and on about preparation at the podium!

Kentrell Brice is lost in the sauce? Keep putting him out there anyway!

The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result.

Whether you like it or not, the head coach is responsible for whatever the team does or fails to do. That's leadership 101.

Mike McCarthy won't be coaching in Green Bay at season's end if the team keeps playing like this and he keeps making bad decisions.

Demon's picture

Just what is it MM is good at?
Game planning? No
Calling plays? No
Clock management? No
Motivating the team? No
Hiring coaches? No
Evaluating coaches? No
Utilizing the given talent? No
Public speaking? Hell no

Oppy's picture

It's definitely a case where he got handed a head coaching job in the NFL right out of high school because he's the owner's nephew.

Demon's picture

You might be onto something

Bert's picture

Gets good distance throwing the challenge flag? Yes.

4thand1's picture

Gute has to finish gutting.

A Pickled Packer's picture

I take no solace in the way the defense played in the second half, big deal and so what, the other team was content just to kill the clock and made it easy. and I take no comfort in watching Pettine up in the booth looking like Dom Capers. I bet those are still the same head phones. Doesn't a coach belong near his men. After 3 games we are near the bottom stopping the run. Some one needs to get in somebody's face, who better than your coach. Since Pettine will remain in the booth, maybe they got hand signals for that.

4thand1's picture

Maybe MM should charge the players like a raging bull.

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