Packers' Edge Rushers Are Poised to Create One of the NFL's Most Dominant Groups
The Green Bay Packers have a clear model to define positional value and, besides quarterback, it’s evident that general manager Brian Gutekunst thinks edge defender is the most premium position in football. Since he took over in 2018, he has used two first-round picks at the position, getting Rashan Gary and Lukas Van Ness, and also added two high-priced free agents in Preston Smith and Za’Darius Smith. Other minor investments add up, and the Packers enter the 2023 season with which may be the best edge depth in the entire league.
Right now, the Packers have Rashan Gary, Preston Smith, Lukas Van Ness, and Kingsley Enagbare as locks to make the 53-man roster. That, per se, is a pretty strong group. But they also have veteran Justin Hollins, who was claimed off waivers from the Los Angeles Rams during last season, and Brenton Cox, who’s a talented priority undrafted free agent. They fight for the fifth spot, and don’t be surprised if the Packers keep six edges for the first time since 2016.
The chance to do multiple alignments is a big factor for the Packers. Lukas Van Ness, for example, played more as an interior defender in college. He'll be primarily an outside linebacker for the Packers, but he may be kicked inside on obvious passing downs to play alongside Gary and Preston. Even the two interior defensive linemen drafted, Colby Wooden and Karl Brooks, and off-ball linebacker Quay Walker could all be used as situational edge rushers too.
"Versatility is one [box to check]," said Brian Gutekunst about what they look for in edge rushers. "Because when you're a little lighter, it's tougher to go inside. Of course, setting edges on first and second downs is important to us. I think it's just how we want to be built. His [Van Ness'] versatility jumps out, but also the explosive nature in which he rushes the passer."
One year ago, the Packers' situation at edge defender wasn't nearly as impressive. Za'Darius Smith had been released, and beyond Gary and Preston, the best alternatives were Jonathan Garvin and La'Darius Hamilton. They are still part of the 90-man roster, but it's unlikely that they will be a part of the rotation moving forward — they are currently options seven and eight on the team.
The 90-man roster still has undrafted rookie Keshawn Banks, who fights for a spot on the practice squad, and international pathway player Kenneth Odumegwu, who will most likely be on an extra PS spot.
It's still unknown if Rashan Gary will be healthy enough to start the season, while he still recovers from an ACL injury. But even if he doesn't, the Packers are much more well equipped to replace him than they were last year. And when Gary is finally back at 100%, the Packers have a legitimate chance to be one of the best edge groups in the NFL. Considering how valuable the Packers think edge rusher is, it's absolutely not a coincidence.
Photo: Wm. Glasheen/USA TODAY NETWORK-Wisconsin / USA TODAY NETWORK
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Wendell Ferreira covers the Green Bay Packers for Zone Coverage and Cheesehead TV. He is a Brazilian journalist with over a decade of experience covering the NFL, soccer, NBA, and MMA. Follow him on twitter at @wendellfp
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Comments (55)
LambeauPlain
June 13, 2023 at 11:38 am
Wendell, I thought Van Ness only played about a third of his snaps inside at Iowa (and he wasn't nearly as productive inside as on the edge).
I don't expect too much inside play for Hercules as a rookie Packer with Brooks and Wooden better prepared to play there and need the snaps.
I expect he will get some looks inside, but he needs most of his work on the edge as a rookie.
If Lukas can develop another pass rush move beyond his bull rush...watch out! If he doesn't, NFL O linemen will neutralize him very quickly.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
June 13, 2023 at 12:40 pm
Van Ness' own personal coach said Van Ness playing inside is playing him out of position. I dont think we'll see very much of him there.
dobber
June 13, 2023 at 01:52 pm
I think the Packers are better equipped to run more stunts and be a little more creative up front.
Leatherhead
June 13, 2023 at 06:30 pm
How would you feel about him starting at DE in the 3-4 base?
greengold
June 13, 2023 at 11:42 am
Amen.
T7Steve
June 13, 2023 at 12:00 pm
Who would have thought a dominant group on edge? Wow! Just another to add to the wait and see list.
mnbadger
June 13, 2023 at 12:12 pm
I think the premise of the article is optimistic and potentially viewed through very rosy glasses.
Without too much effort, I can think of 5 or 6 current teams with more proven talent and production at the edge.
I remain optimistic that the group will be as good and deeper than we've had as long as I've been watching and I got to see Dave Robinson at his best.
GPG!
NickPerry
June 14, 2023 at 05:28 am
Nice...That play in IIRC the 1666/67 Championship game (The one before Ice Bowl) where he rushed and got to Don Meredith and Meredith threw up a duck Tom Brown intercepted is one of my favorite plays that I actually can remember watching on TV with my Dad.
Robinson would say later say Lombardi gave him a negative 1 or 2 on the play because he didn't do what he was supposed to do on the called defensive play call. Never mind he caused the interception in the first place and would have had a sack had Dandy Don not thrown the duck up.
One of the greatest Packers EVER!
BuckyBadger
June 13, 2023 at 12:34 pm
They could have a very good group this year or they might struggle mightily. Can't expect Van Ness to come in and be a stud right away. Since Gary will probably miss the 1st six games on IR Van Ness might have to see more of the field and struggles are to be expected. He was drafted on his potential more than being a polished prospect ready to contribute right away. Smith isn't getting any younger. Held up well last year but can't expect that forever. Enagbare is just another guy who doesn't worry any average starting tackle.
The hope is Gary and Van Ness become a 1-2 punch but to expect that in 2023 after Gary coming back from a serious injury and Van Ness still a rotational player in college I wouldn't expect that until mid to late 2024 and 2025.
T7Steve
June 13, 2023 at 12:38 pm
I think Enagbare graded out well against the run last season. So there's that.
dobber
June 13, 2023 at 01:51 pm
He apparently looked like a different player in OTAs, but maybe they just didn't recognize him without pads.
crayzpackfan
June 13, 2023 at 01:37 pm
Bucky
"Van Ness still a rotational player in college I wouldn't expect that until mid to late 2024 and 2025."
He played the second most snaps on the entire defense last year. I'd hardly call that a rotational player. The only reason he wasn't listed as a starter is Iowa starts their seniors out of respect.
Oppy
June 13, 2023 at 04:39 pm
Beat me to it. :)
BuckyBadger
June 14, 2023 at 01:09 am
This is what Packer fans are saying. If he was a dominate player he would have started as college football is much like the pros. If they aren't playing the best they will lose them to the transfer portal. I am not saying he won't be a great player but to think he will just jump into the NFL after not starting at Iowa and playing the 2nd most stats you are dreaming.
Oppy
June 14, 2023 at 02:48 am
"Starting" doesn't hold any real weight.
"Starting" technically means exactly that- you are the player who took the field for the very first offensive or defensive snap of the game at a given position. Nothing more, nothing less.
"The Iowa coaches reward seniority, so John Waggoner and Joe Evans started at defensive end last season, but Van Ness had more defensive snaps than either and led the Hawkeyes in tackles for loss and sacks."
He was a consensus 1st round selection, typically forecasted to go mid-to-late 1st round. One scout said he thought Van Ness might have had potential to go top 3 pick overall if he would have stuck around Iowa for his senior year before entering the draft.
I don't think he's going to light the world on fire his rookie season, but I don't think it's valid to claim because he wasn't 'starting' he must not be -that- good.
NickPerry
June 14, 2023 at 05:30 am
"They could have a very good group this year or they might struggle mightily. Can't expect Van Ness to come in and be a stud right away."
I think Van Ness will be the DROY and I'm sticking to it!
greengold
June 14, 2023 at 05:56 am
I’d be ALL-IN on that one, Nick.
Still can’t believe we got him at #13. If Gutekunst hadn’t snagged Van Ness there, he’d be a Patriot, and Broderick Jones a Jet.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
June 13, 2023 at 12:44 pm
Not related to Wendell's article, but I really feel the need to share. If anyone's looking for some wonderful Packers content, check out Bootleg Football Podcast's Packers episode on Youtube that just aired today. 1 hr and 20 minutes of incredible insight about our beloved team and football in general. Its well worth your time.
greengold
June 13, 2023 at 01:05 pm
Cool, BTSH! Thanks for the heads-up!
T7Steve
June 13, 2023 at 01:40 pm
Speaking of unrelated, has anyone seen anything or any posts from TGR lately?
Maybe he's on break but I miss his content and views.
greengold
June 13, 2023 at 01:52 pm
No, and I’m hoping he’s alright and just taking a break!
Thegreatreynoldo
June 14, 2023 at 05:24 am
That's very kind of you.
I've been sick with the flu for some time. Still am, a little. Now the internet at work has been funky for a while now and was down completely for 4 days, just came back up Tuesday. Yeah, I work pretty much alone so I can come in while still under the weather, a very, very, mixed bag, that. On the other hand, I write my many of my comments and some of my articles while at work (shhh!). And the work internet has lately been unaccommodating about accessing some sites, including CHTV, and for some reason wouldn't let me log in. Trying to resolve these things, but first I just need to feel 100% again.
T7Steve
June 14, 2023 at 07:24 am
Thanks TGR. Hope you get feeling better and your computer fixed. I'd miss your snap counts, but you have time to get that stuff done.
I wouldn't be here if I wasn't at work. In my case it means everything is ok because I'm the QC manager.
greengold
June 14, 2023 at 03:54 pm
I love that Brett Kollmann had to pour a double before talking about the Packers.
Qoojo
June 13, 2023 at 12:50 pm
It's nice to be optimistic, but I remember all the hype for the defense last year. First, Gary will be injured starting the season, and that only leaves Smith as the known guy. Van Ness is a rookie and is unproven. Preseason will show if any of the young guys actually made a leap.
Additionally, the defense is too passive under Barry. Just look at the Vikings game last year where the defense basically flipped Barry off, players dictated the game plan, then got some claws and attitude. Barry is such an idiot that I feel like he would have Reggie White covering TEs to fool the offense.
Since'61
June 13, 2023 at 01:04 pm
Qoojo the hype and propaganda train is running until August 29th. At that point the train stops and everyone gets off. The cuts go home and the remaining 53 plus the PS get on the reality train. Until the reality train arrives at the Packers week 1 destination the hype train is taking us on a journey through Fantasy football Land.
Thanks, Since '61
greengold
June 13, 2023 at 01:12 pm
Lolz.
This article by Wendell does fit the kind of positive, quality programming I like to allow into my home…
😉
Oppy
June 13, 2023 at 04:47 pm
I don't recall watching Barry drop a DE into coverage, but I get it, like the majority of Packers fans, you don't like Barry.
Leatherhead
June 13, 2023 at 05:07 pm
Hold on a second pardner......
1) Everything I've heard/read says that Gary will be ready to play. He might not be 100% the guy he was, but he'll still be pretty good.d
2) Smith is a known guy. So is Garvin, after two years. So is Enagbare.
3) The "too passive" defense was 6th in pressures, 4th in interceptions, 1st in least YAC, and gave up fewer points than KC. In fact, it gave up the fewest points in the division, and fewer than most of the teams in the NFC.
Qoojo
June 13, 2023 at 06:27 pm
That conveniently leaves out run stats which they ranked in the 20s. Points-wise they were in the middle of the nfl.
Packers had 126 pressures. Gary accounted for 81 of them and Smith had 19. The pressures stat just shows how awesome Gary is, and why he is so important.
Additionally, if a team absolutely sucks at one phase like running, and competent in the other phase, guess which one is going to be exploited by a competent coach?
So they absolutely were passive in my opinion. Just re-watch the Vikings game in GB again and see what they can actually do.
The secondary has so much invested in it. Put those guys on an island and live with the occasional big play.
Leatherhead
June 13, 2023 at 06:33 pm
5<7,
greengold
June 13, 2023 at 07:25 pm
Fyi, just saw a bit of film on Gary hitting the sled in OTAs with the positional guys indoors, not off to the side, and daYYUM! He looked good. You wouldn’t know in that simple drill about his knee surgery. He destroyed that sled like he always did.
One of the fringe benefits living in the homeland again. Local coverage. Just thought I’d share. Stokes looked to be moving better than I thought he would too.
It’s not much, but a little window into something positive there.
Since'61
June 13, 2023 at 09:32 pm
I'm figuring on Gary being ready to go 100% after the Packers bye week. If that happens few have Gary for 12 games. That would be huge for the Packers defense for 2023. We'll see. Thanks, Since '61
Thegreatreynoldo
June 14, 2023 at 05:50 am
Yeah, I watched Bakh and Jenkins doing work on the sidelines last year. They looked very good, but neither ended up being ready. Both could have gone on PUP for 4 games. Bahk missed the first two weeks, played 35 snaps in week three and a full game in week four, during which he looked like himself, so I suppose. Jenkins missed week one but played way below his normal quality for a few weeks.
I kind of learned my lesson. But it is better to see them out there and looking free and natural than not, and sometimes players do return early and play well immediately. I saw a video clip of Stokes in the middle of the field with I think Rasul while they did some kind of little dance rather than an exercise. Stokes was jumping up and down on both legs a bit, so another good sign.
greengold
June 14, 2023 at 07:23 am
Absolutely, TGR.
I was merely happy to see how well both players appeared to be moving. As you alluded to, it’s better than the inverse. Personally, I don’t want either of them starting the season Game 1.
I’d much rather they both start out on the PUP, with ample recovery time to provide optimal healing and return to quality strength/speed.
Coldworld
June 14, 2023 at 09:58 am
Sideline rehab work is specifically tailored to things that minimize the stress on the injuries, for obvious reasons. Yes it’s better than being in a boot or the like, or just jogging, but it’s does not mean much other than that.
Oppy
June 13, 2023 at 05:01 pm
Gary is a beast when healthy. Preston is a plus player when he remembers to play disciplined and keeps his edge integrity.
Enagbare hasn't shown to be anything beyond a project at this point. I personally don't see him having the bend, agility, or C.O.D skills to become a fearsome all-around edge defender, but his length and toughness looks like he could become a very good edge setter who gets occasional coverage sacks when QBs get squeezed and try to escape the pocket- he's got long, long arms and strong hands.
Lukas Van Ness is a one trick pony in terms of pass rush skills at this point in his career. His speed to power rush is pretty damn impressive. Needs to learn a ton about hand fighting and set up. That takes a couple seasons, but he'll be getting a decent number of reps as a rook due to Gary's early season absence.
If Lukas develops, this could be a dominant group between himself, Gary, and Smith. Thing is, when Lukas is likely to come into his own (if he pans out), I can't imagine Preston Smith is still in green bay. That makes it a 2 man group, which is great when they're on the field together, but between injuries and catching a breather, sometimes 2 isn't enough. Not that you need a star backup, but at least two sound fill in guys at OLB need to back two legitimate studs to start talking about a dominant force.
Leatherhead
June 13, 2023 at 05:14 pm
Oppy, I'd encourage you to take another look at Enagbare.
He didn't miss a game last year. From the middle of the season on, he was on the field for around half the defensive plays. That's a helluva lot of snaps for a project. That's more like a guy who was drafted, made the 53 man roster, was on the active gameday roster, and who the coaches trusted on the field. I think he had a pretty good season for a rookie.
I'm also going to have to disagree that Van Ness is a one trick pony, because one of his big selling points is his versatility. I think you'll see him lining up at spots other than OLB for us this year.
greengold
June 13, 2023 at 07:46 pm
Andy Herman did a nice piece yesterday on positional reviews. When he hit the EDGE group, he raved about Van Ness in every aspect. His recognition to hold the point, or to know when not to in beating Yosh to what would have been a sack on Love.
He mentioned Enagbare too, saying there was no way Kingsley would make the same kind of play the Van Ness had, but that he was doing well opposite Preston with the 1s.
It wasn’t an indictment on Enagbare at all as communicated, rather super high praise for Van Ness’ abilities displayed.
Van Ness was fast, powerful, aware and adjusts, according to Herman. Said both LVN & Musgrave continue living rent free in his head throughout OTAs, Nos. 1 & 2, in that order.
Enagbare is a player I have high hopes for too.
Oppy
June 13, 2023 at 11:48 pm
Enagbare was on the field because Gary was not, not because he's a star player- he's just better than the rest of the depth. Number of snaps is good for growth but not necessarily and indicator of talent or performance- someone's got to get in there.
The article is about a dominant edge rush group. Van Ness's versatility is ability to play inside and out. That is not the same as being versatile rusher off the edge. He has a limited skill set as an outside rusher- which, again, was the scope of the article.
greengold
June 14, 2023 at 04:06 am
True. Enagbare has been touted as possibly being better inside. 6-5 260 35” arms, 83 5/8” wingspan - HUGE! Kingsley has time to find his role, but I felt he played pretty well last year. Maybe OLB group’s #5 or 6…?
Smith, Gary, Van Ness, Hollins?
Lost in this entire discussion is the 6-5 248 OLB Justin Hollins. He’s gotten more starter reps in OTAs opposite Smith (per Andy Herman) than any of our pass rushers. He did have some sneaky good production in just 6 games played with the Packers last year after coming over from the Rams.
6 games, 2.5 sacks, 9 tackles, 3 TFL, 4 QB hits, 3 run stuffs
We all probably sense Lukas Van Ness will likely jump to our #1 pass rush specialist before too long.
Oppy
June 14, 2023 at 06:10 am
I don't have that sense at all, and don't know why anyone would. He hasn't played a snap of preseason football, much less regular season NFL football yet.
I'm all for optimism, but the NFL is littered with short career wash-outs whose production on the field didn't live up to the projection on paper.
Thegreatreynoldo
June 14, 2023 at 06:06 am
Enagbare looked rather nondescript for the first five weeks of last season, but after that he had some highs and just a couple of lows.
Definitely things to like about Enagbare, including a 3.1% missed tackle rate and his motor. He did manage 12 pressures in just 465 snaps. [Preston had 27 pressures in 825 snaps - all stats PFR.] Enagbare might not look to have the twitch one looks for, but work on technique, hone your strengths while working on any possible weaknesses. He has a place in the NFL at least.
WD
June 16, 2023 at 06:52 am
It is not even preseason yet and people are assuming Gary will miss the first 6 games of the season. Maybe someone should ask his doctors? A little more optimism please.
BAMABADGER
June 13, 2023 at 09:22 pm
Anointing this edge group as a best in class group is premature. They could be very good. However, Gary needs to comeback strong and early in the season. Van Ness needs playing like a Bosa out of the gate. It can be done 🤞 GPG!
SicSemperTyrannis
June 13, 2023 at 11:46 pm
I feel vindicated! Before the draft I was thinking that a monster edge rush could be just what we need. And Gutey emphasized that with more than just Luke Ness Monster :)
I don't know that I'm ready to predict we'll be #1 anything in the league this year, but it's fun to think about the potential these yutes have ...
Oppy
June 14, 2023 at 12:18 am
Side note: Anyone else been getting threat detection hits from their antivirus software when logging into CHTV lately?
Just started seeing this over the last two weeks. Had a very obtrusive pop up tonight that didn't seem legit at all.
greengold
June 14, 2023 at 03:46 am
Never here, Oppy, using Apple products exclusively.
PackEyedOptimist
June 14, 2023 at 05:27 am
YES (and WOW)
It has been happening to me the past few weeks on both my Microsoft laptop and my Apple I-Phone, and ONLY when I'm on Cheesehead TV. Sometimes it forces me to log off as well.
Ironically, It just happened again NOW while I was typing this response, so this is my retyping of it!
VERY annoying!
Thegreatreynoldo
June 14, 2023 at 06:08 am
Me too, but my work internet was messing up for other sites as well, including OTC and numerous others.
CentralPA_PackFan
June 14, 2023 at 08:45 am
Same here. It made CHTV unreadable for me a few days ago, since it kept popping up every 30 seconds or so. Thankfully, I haven't seen it at all the last two days, so I'm hoping it's history at this point.
CentralPA_PackFan
June 14, 2023 at 09:18 am
Oops, spoke too soon, it just came back. Damn!
Lphill
June 14, 2023 at 08:42 am
Cox may be the Packers diamond in the rough , he is a talent I think he makes the cut.
T7Steve
June 14, 2023 at 10:39 am
I hope you're right. Don't know what kind of attitude or personal thing led to his problems, but I hope coaching in the NFL can point it in the right direction.
Might be the steal of the draft if they can put a harness on him.
ImaPayne2
June 14, 2023 at 11:12 am
Gary is in a quadmire. I've had him doing a Perry since day one, playing it big in his contract year and saying adios GB, I want the benjamins. Gary's play blew up in his face with that injury and I'm guessing him and his agent are wondering what game plan b is.
I think the pass rush will be adequate but lets stop the dominant crap. They arent that talented. They arent that quick