Addressing the IDL Position is Once Again a Need for Packers
The IDL position is one that the Green Bay Packers haven't typically invested heavily in, but they should consider changing that this offseason.
By Paul_Bretl
"Get Kenny Clark some help!"
A phrase uttered by many Green Bay Packers fans in recent years. However, for the most part, the interior defensive line position is one that the Packers have not invested heavily in--whether that be through free agency or the draft.
In recent drafts, Green Bay has spent two fifth-round picks on Kingsley Keke and TJ Slaton. Keke was released late last season while we saw flashes from Slaton--although at this point, it remains to be seen how heavily he can be relied upon. Meanwhile, in free agency, outside of some practice squad additions or those fighting for a roster spot, the Packers have not really addressed this position.
As we look ahead to the 2022 season, the only interior defenders under contract at the moment are Kenny Clark, Dean Lowry, Jack Heflin, and Slaton. Obviously, from a sheer numbers standpoint, Green Bay has to add to their roster, but unlike in years past, they should also consider investing more premium capital into the position as well.
In terms of yards per carry allowed, the 4.7 yards that Green Bay gave up in 2021 was actually more than the 4.5 they allowed in 2020. By Football Outsiders run-DVOA metric, the Packers ranked 28th this past season while finishing 18th in 2020.
Now, I will say that I do believe that Clark did receive more help in 2021, with Lowry is coming off a career season as a pass-rusher, setting career highs in both pressures and sacks, according to PFF. Despite what those specific stats say, opponents also didn't control games on the ground as often last season either--in fact; the Packers didn't allow their first 100-yard rusher until they faced Cleveland in Week 16.
It's also important to note that with Joe Barry's defensive system, which relies heavily upon lightboxes and is built around taking away the pass first, the Packers' run defense may never truly be a dominant unit. And there were a few metrics such as PFF's grading system and ESPN's run-stop win rate that did show the Packer run defense improving last season.
However, you get the idea; there is still certainly room for improvement, and if this defense is going to take a step forward, an improved run defense unit is one major way that they can go about doing so.
I know Lowry is a potential cut candidate to save cap space, but I just don't see that happening. For starters, this is not a position that Green Bay can afford to lose a key contributor at--who is going to take Lowry's 700-plus snaps next season? Also, a lot of Lowry's contributions aren't going to show up on the stat sheet with the double-teams he occupies and the space he eats up.
Slaton and Heflin could certainly be in-line for larger roles in 2022, but relying heavily on a second-year fifth-round pick and a UDFA comes with obvious risks.
Who knows how much cap space Green Bay will have to work with in free agency, which makes the draft the most likely avenue for the Packers to find some additional help--that is, if they are willing to invest an early-round pick into the position.
From Kyle Crabbs of The Draft Network, some of the early round names to keep your eyes on include Jordan Davis, DeMarvin Leal, Devonte Wyatt, Phidarian Mathis, Perrion Winfrey, and Travis Jones.
It certainly feels like the interior defensive line position is one we discuss every offseason as a position of need. But in 2022, that feels especially true. Not only are the Green Bay Packers in search of high-end talent who can contribute right away, but they also need to fill out a depleted interior defensive line room.
We know they will accomplish the latter, but what about that high-end talent?
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__________________________
Born and raised in Green Bay, WI and I still call it home. After my family, watching the Packers, sharing my opinions on the team through my writing and interacting with other fans is my greatest passion. You can find me on Twitter at @Paul_Bretl.
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Comments (55)
SteveMiller22
February 21, 2022 at 11:11 am
Devonte Wyatt no matter what.
LLCHESTY
February 21, 2022 at 11:44 am
Much as I like Wyatt I think it's a tough choice between him and Perrion Winfrey if both are available at 28. Winfrey had a great week at the Senior Bowl and has more pass rushing upside.
John Ridgeway and Neil Farrell Jr are two guys that will probably go in the 4th round that can play 3-4 DE. Either one would be a good replacement for Lowry. Farrell was the American team DL player of the week at the Senior Bowl like Winfrey for the National team.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 11:49 am
We probably need 2 if we are serious, but the past suggests we keep Lowry I fear.
Alberta_Packer
February 21, 2022 at 12:43 pm
Lowry by default more than by merit. Ouch!
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2022 at 06:50 pm
Trade him, or he takes a pay cut.
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2022 at 07:04 pm
Winfrey has the NFL body and wingspan to go five tech. A second round target for both guys. Watched Wyatt in the big games three years running as he moves along the los with dexterity. I like Wyatt also. I would take Wyatt, a hustle guy, a smart guy who played against the best. I have to view more film of Winfrey.
LLCHESTY
February 21, 2022 at 10:15 pm
No way either of them last past the 40th pick. After the combine I think they're both in the 1st round. Winfrey didn't have the best Senior year but they moved him around quite a bit and asked him to two gap which is definitely a waste of his talents. Some scouts said he had the best Senior Bowl as a D lineman since Aaron Donald.
Leatherhead
February 22, 2022 at 12:57 pm
I love the naive assumption that we can draft a guy on Day 3 who will be better than a guy who never gets hurt, who has started 100 games as a pro, who has been our second best defensive lineman during a 39-10 stretch.
Gee
February 22, 2022 at 03:14 pm
Record a side, I think its native to think they could not have found a better option.
LLCHESTY
February 21, 2022 at 12:04 pm
Slaton showed some promise, he got a good push on a lot of his snaps and I thought he showed some very good lateral mobility on a few outside runs. But he stayed tied up with his blocker way too often and has to get better at hand fighting. Hit, stack and shed should be his mantra this offseason.
If Lowry is let go this would be my ideal IDL draft scenario.
1st round-Winfrey or Wyatt. Both can play 5T and then move inside to 3T in sub packages.
4th round-John Ridgeway or Neil Farrell Jr. Lowry replacements with more upside. Farrell's athleticism really shows when you watch him and he could end up being a 3rd rounder.
7th round-Noah Ellis or Marquand McCall. Lancaster replacements. Both are NTs with the length to take some snaps at 5T. Noah Ellis has some good genes, his dad Luther played DT for 10 years in the NFL and was Noah's coach at Idaho.
stockholder
February 21, 2022 at 12:17 pm
Winfrey is the better choice. DeMarvin Leal is going to fall. Neil Ferrel is a nice choice Later.
stockholder
February 21, 2022 at 12:12 pm
We needed to replace KeKE. Lowry is staying. If BPA is a DL. I Suggest they take him. Because no WR is going to make Rodgers happy.
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2022 at 07:02 pm
Drake London from USC if he stays at the back end. I would move into the second round for another two as they need to bring in volume. WR , DL, TE, OLB, ILB, S CB the usual suspects.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 22, 2022 at 08:54 am
Assuming BPA I have maintained all along the Pack needs a stud DL in Rd 1. One who can disrupt an offense.
A WR and/or TE can be had in Rd 2, however a trade up early in Rd 2 may be necessary to get a top player at this position as they always go quickly with a big run early Rd 2. ALWAYS!
Leatherhead
February 21, 2022 at 12:25 pm
We do like to complain about our defensive line.
😎 Clark, Lowry, Lancaster and Keke were the defensive line during this 39-10 stretch. Keke is gone. Slaton has been added.
😎This defensive line stomped the 49ers in our playoff loss. The previous season, it held the Bucs to 65 yards on the ground. Over the last three years, the defense has been above average in points allowed.
Some people are slow to grasp this, but we want teams to run the ball on us, which won’t happen if we can just stuff the run. Why do we want teams to run on us? Because a good rusher averages 5.0 yards per attempt, and an average passer averages 7.0 yards per attempt.
7.0 > 5.0. It’s not more complicated than that. So citing the run defense stats doesn’t seem to take that into account.
😎. Most of the time, we only play two DL, and one of them is Kenny Clark. So when you only have two DL on the field , and half of them are monsters, how bad can your line be?
For the record, I’d like to add a guy like Wyatt. It would strengthen an already good line. and improve the depth.
egbertsouse
February 21, 2022 at 02:00 pm
So, if we let them run on us it will take them 20% longer to score which will increase their time of possession and give our offense 20% less time with the ball. That's some airtight Mike Pettine logic right there.
dblbogey
February 21, 2022 at 04:01 pm
I was thinking Ray Rhodes.
Leatherhead
February 21, 2022 at 08:41 pm
Assuming that the offense never stops themself with a penalty, then r an incomplete, or a missed block, or a …….
It takes several successful runs to equal one big chunk play.
Leatherhead
February 22, 2022 at 10:32 am
You’d rather give up 300 in the air than 100 on the ground. Makes sense, I suppose.
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2022 at 07:56 pm
How did that work out on 3rd and 8, crunch time in the fourth quarter and Deebo Samuel running through a gap as big as Toby's hind end? Wyatt is the best DT in this draft. Barry likes three down linemen, I prefer four.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 22, 2022 at 02:13 am
This seems eminently logical.
I suppose "want them to run" is not wrong and might be true. I think Barry just doesn't want to commit more than 2 true defensive linemen, but it would be great if those two on their own account could shut down interior runs. I suppose if teams could not run on GB, they might choose to attack the secondary by passing more.
I am comfortable with Alexander, Stokes, Savage (pretty much) and Amos. GB does need to find a 5th and 6th DB and a couple of ILBs if they let Campbell walk.
Leatherhead
February 22, 2022 at 01:07 pm
TGR, it's beyond logcia.l. It's the way these guys think.
The goal is always to limit the points. In 49 regular season games, we've held the opposition to under 24 thirty five times. That's like about 70% (all stats subject to bourbon-induced inaccuracy).
The coaches know that "chunk plays" put points on the board. Chunk plays are usually passes. It takes quite a few runs to equal one chunk play.
We drafted Alexander in the first. We drafted Stokes in the first. We traded up to take Savage in the first. We made a big FA move to get Amos. We brought in two high dollar edge rushers, and drafted another high in the first round. Meanwhile, we've drafted Slaten and had a rent-a-backer in the middle. So do you think the organization is more concerned with pass defense or run defense?
Obviously, they understand that defense in the NFL is pass defense. So the first step in pass defense is to encourage them not to pass. These people who want us to stuff the run so that teams will throw 45 passes a game don't understand that.
Do you remember back in 2004? We had a pretty good run defense going with Gravy Jackson, and we were playing in Indianapolis. Manning came out and threw like 30 passes in the first half, and they ran about 5 times and they beat us.
This is a league where 2/3 of passes are completed, and the average completion is about 10 yards. You have to deal with that.....it's a helluva lot more important than stuffing the run.
beerandbrats
February 22, 2022 at 11:24 am
I really like your argument about defending the run vs the pass. Do we prioritize stopping the run or stopping the pass? Do we want to give up 5 yards or 7 yards on average? That really got me thinking about our defensive philosophy!
Leatherhead
February 22, 2022 at 03:38 pm
It's those chunk plays that you have to eliminate.
5 yards average. First off, we're below that so even at the average, it's still 3rd and 1. And averages don't really work like that, and at some point in the drive you're going to need a play that's longer than 5 yards. Penalties, missed assignments, bad passes, drops, etc.all stop drives.
IMO, short-yardage is when you'd like to be able to stuff the run. The rest of the time, it's better to let them run it into the line for couple of yards than it is to give them a shot at a chunk play. Isn't it?
So a team takes over on the 25, grinds out some first downs, but takes a holding penalty and now it's second and 15 at midfield. Your run defense isn't important at all anymore......it's your pass defense, and that's where we spend our resources. So how much did those rushing yards help on that drive? Not at all, in terms of points.
You get maybe 10 or 11 drives in a game.....less if you run a lot. You run maybe 65 plays. So how many plays is an average drive? Not that many. And if they want to use some of those plays to run it into the line, that's fine by me.
More food for thought,packmann. Careful, it's dark over on this side.
LLCHESTY
February 23, 2022 at 01:38 am
I think really good DCs focus on taking away what the offense does best. It's not about stop this or that, it's about forcing teams away from their top options.
Alberta_Packer
February 21, 2022 at 01:43 pm
No doubt there is a great need to fortify the IDL position. Unfortunately, unlike O-linemen, the Packers have not been good at drafting D-linemen - with the 3 notable exceptions of B.J. Raji, Kenny Clark and Mike Daniels, in the last 13 years. Meanwhile, notable draft failures includes Jerel Worthy, Datone Jones, Montravious Adams and most recently Keke Kingsley. Also Justin Harrell (2007) tops the failures list. In addition, their free agent signings have been no hell. So unless Gutekunst gets much better at drafting and signing free agent D-linemen - we may very well be having this same discussion a year from now.
LLCHESTY
February 21, 2022 at 10:17 pm
It's been the same every year since Daniels left.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 22, 2022 at 02:13 am
It's been the same every year since Cullen Jenkins left.
Coldworld
February 22, 2022 at 09:06 am
They got into a habit of going for fast twitch, smaller types, most particularly those thought of as disruptors who could get into the backfield rather than being overly stout.
Other than Jenkins (who probably started it) and Daniels, that’s proved time and again to be a mistake. It is possible that Slaton marked a departure from that. One can hope.
jannesbjornson
February 22, 2022 at 12:53 pm
Don't get me started....
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 22, 2022 at 09:32 am
How many DL has Gutey drafted in the 3 years running the show? Plus, in what round did he draft them?
I do not believe there is a bigger need on the team right now than DL. Not just a run stopper but someone who has some pass rush. Yes, depending on whether the Smiths are resigned OLB might become the biggest need. Both DL and OLB talent needed.
ImaPayne2
February 21, 2022 at 12:45 pm
I know the pack wont go to a 4-3 and use atypical defensive linemen who would fill this void. Thus they need a run stopper in the middle.
My take is simple. I dont think Thompson or Gutt pay a lot of attention to intellegence andor speed when drafting.
They look at people who can play more then one position in a lot of cases thus, IMO this team lacks speed and has big problems playing speed teams.
Our linebackers are slow of foot and cannot drop back and cover tight ends very well. Our pass rushers are not that much better. Brady got most of his passes off against us with little of no rush in his face.
Even our receivers are so so in the speed department and out secondary has some guys with only avg speed.
frankthefork
February 21, 2022 at 12:57 pm
No need to argue. A solid foundation is the building block to greater things...and more rings!
egbertsouse
February 21, 2022 at 02:03 pm
We all know that Gutey is not going to draft any IDL in the higher rounds. He's going to go with his usual 5'10", 180 lb. cornerbacks and safeties. He'll worry about DL in Rounds 5-7.
dblbogey
February 21, 2022 at 04:06 pm
We've been a bit unlucky, having 2-3 good ILB taken just before our pick in the last few years. Vita Vea was also taken one or two picks before us. That would have been nice to team with Clark. But, we got Rashan instead so it's all good.
dobber
February 22, 2022 at 08:34 am
You mean the all-pro Alexander and the all-rookie team Stokes (6'1", 195)?
Yeah, drafting guys who can run and cover sucks.
Guam
February 21, 2022 at 02:41 pm
And how many years in a row have we had this conversation about IDL?
Leatherhead
February 21, 2022 at 03:52 pm
Ever since Gilbert got old.
packerbackerjim
February 22, 2022 at 07:57 am
Cullen Jenkins was the one DL they let get away for no apparent reason.
LLCHESTY
February 21, 2022 at 10:34 pm
Well they waived Daniels before camp in 2019. I thought they needed another DE or 3T before that but that's when "well, they'll have to draft a DT high now" talk started. Then there was the NFCCG that year and it seemed beyond doubt.
Coldworld
February 22, 2022 at 09:09 am
Pettine didn’t like to play big men. He’d just let them sit on the bench despite them being effective when they did get snaps. Barry seems to be different.
ricky
February 21, 2022 at 03:15 pm
If you switched the position to ILB, you'd be able to write the same article, just change the names. This has been commented on for years. And every off-season, we once again get the same articles: will this be the year the Packers spend an early round pick on ILB/DT/WR? And they don't. However, it seems that losing a divisional round game to an inferior team due in large part to poor ST's work finally caught their attention. Now, if only whoever swung that two-by-four into the head of the mule making these decisions, perhaps they could address another area of need. Personally, I'm not holding my breath.
Lphill
February 21, 2022 at 03:51 pm
Jack Heflin showed promise and the Packers signed him back after releasing him , he’s a good size around 300lbs.
dblbogey
February 21, 2022 at 04:07 pm
Same size as my mother in law, but she has no lateral quickness.
Alberta_Packer
February 21, 2022 at 04:45 pm
That does not necessarily disqualify her as Lancaster and Lowry both lack lateral quickness.
Lphill
February 21, 2022 at 04:25 pm
You saw enough of him to write him off?
dobber
February 22, 2022 at 08:35 am
The Packers apparently had no problem exposing him by leaving him on the PS and cutting him.
Coldworld
February 22, 2022 at 09:13 am
Weight room time needed and lack of profile? He’s a classic candidate for risking exposure really. They did bring him back in a futures deal, but that could be because Anderson or another declined. TBD I suppose, but it’s doubtful that he’s considered a building block that can rely on at this point.
jannesbjornson
February 22, 2022 at 01:02 pm
They still show Anderson on the roster. I would keep him over Heflin.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 22, 2022 at 02:16 am
Several replies came to mind, but this is a PG site.
dobber
February 22, 2022 at 08:35 am
WINNER!!!
beerandbrats
February 21, 2022 at 11:47 pm
Trade AR12 to Washington for Chase Young, 2021 defensive rookie of the year. Then draft the best IDL with Washington's number 11 pick. The Packers would arguably have the best 4 man front in the NFL, with 3 out of 4 on rookie contracts.
Chase Young, Jordan Davis, Kenny Clark, Rashan Gary.
Turophile
February 22, 2022 at 05:54 am
Drafting a defensive lineman would be very nice. I like Perrion Winfrey (Oklahoma). 6'4", just over 300lb, with a wingspan of over 85". He has a quick, fast-twitch get-off and the strength to be a menace on the line. After a good combine he should be good value at #28.
The biggest problem with doing that, is the likely need for high quality players at other positions, like Edge, WR, TE.
My guess is that if Adams is retained, Edge is the first round pick, if not, then it's the unusual choice of a WR in round one.
stockholder
February 22, 2022 at 04:52 pm
I think you want a guy that makes the quickest impact. Winfrey can fit anywhere.
stockholder
February 22, 2022 at 04:57 pm
I'm going for Travis Jones DL. Cinn. Rd 1 pick #28. He gets off blocks. Is bigger, and just as fast. And was constantly Double Teamed.