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Will the Packers Grant Josh Jones’ Request for a Trade?

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Will the Packers Grant Josh Jones’ Request for a Trade?

As you’ve likely already heard, Packers safety and former second-round pick Josh Jones has reportedly asked the Packers for a trade.

The third-year player has largely been a disappointment given where he was drafted, and was one of the final selections by former general manager Ted Thompson that has earned a fair amount of criticism.

Jones was expected by many (myself included) to make a big leap in 2018 after he flashed some signs of playmaking ability in his rookie year, but that never happened. Instead, he struggled to get playing time over the ineffective-at-best Kentrell Brice, and when he did see the field was a liability in coverage.

Jones’s strengths have largely been when he plays closer to the line of scrimmage and stays out of coverage, which is why some had thought perhaps he could make a transition to playing more of a linebacker role on the interior alongside Blake Martinez, in rotation with Oren Burks.

But it seems as though a year of getting passed up for Brice, followed by the Packers going out and getting Adrian Amos in free agency and drafting Darnell Savage, has left Jones unhappy with his position on the team.

Jones would be a solid bet to make the final 53 for the Packers and contribute to the team on a rotational basis, so in that sense the Packers might not necessarily be inclined to let him go. But at the same time, is there really any benefit in keeping a depth player around who’s not going to get a second contract and apparently no longer wants to be with the team in the first place?

If Jones wants out, then the Packers don’t really have a whole lot of incentive to keep him around. If he’d shown more on tape, then maybe we’d have a different scenario here. But then again, if he’d shown more on tape, he might not be in this situation on the roster to begin with.

The only question is whether there’s a team desperate enough at safety that they’re going to offer any kind of asset to give up for a player who has largely disappointed on the field in his first two seasons. They’re going to need to be convinced that they’ll be able to get more out of his potential than the Packers have if they’re even going to give up a late-round selection.

The Packers have time and leverage here. They don’t need to make any immediate decisions, and they wouldn’t be taking a massive hit by releasing him if that’s what they choose to do.

Some will debate the precedent the team would set by “giving in to his demands,” but I don’t see it that way. Instead, I think of it like this—if a middling football player wants off your team, is it really worth putting up a fight based on principle? Cut your losses and work with the guys that are actually interested in competing for a spot and contributing to the team.

 

__________________________

Tim Backes is a lifelong Packer fan and a contributor to CheeseheadTV. Follow him on Twitter @timbackes for his Packer takes, random musings and Untappd beer check-ins.

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (119) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Bert's picture

I don't see making a fuss over Jones. He's really not worth the distraction. If Gute can even get a late round draft pick just cut the losses and move on.

TheVOR's picture

You hit on it. He's requesting a trade? What trade? The dude has done NOTHING that would make a team want to trade for him? There is ZERO meaningful film that would have anyone trade anything! If we even got a 6th or 7th round pick out of him, it would be a miracle!

We'd need to find another team in a similar position and maybe you could swap out disheartened football players in a trade, but I wouldn't see anyone giving up a pick for someone who "WILL SURELY BE RELEASED"??

Wow, another disappointing 1-2 punch from the Thompson era.. Back to back DB busts in 2 drafts! Wow!

TheVOR's picture

Grant his agent permission to go find him a home! Bet he can't!!

4thand10's picture

In all fairness, he started off with Capers, had half assed Ha Ha as a coworker. Pettine probably figured he wasn’t fast enough and played him more box Safety /LB ...but he is not exactly built like a linebacker. In general, safeties who play LB for most of the snaps have relatively short careers . I’m not a big fan of undersized linebackers let alone safety conversion to one. A current example...Barr and Mack are still playing and have some years left. Shazier Will probably never play again.

I get the concept of it and “ todays nfl” type hype and by all means run a Safety blitz once in awhile..but , making a bread and butter linebacker out of a Safety...I don’t like it. Because if you use a player like that as an expected rotational piece..what happens when you can get your D off the field? Or the other team is running plays and not substituting ? An undersized, fatigued out of position player is stuck out there is what happens...

Or I could be totally off base and he just doesn’t like Green Bay. I trust Pettine more than I ever trusted Capers so I doubt he ( Jones) is suddenly going to be a pro bowler for some other team.

jannes bjornson's picture

J Jones has 4.4 speed. He just cannot recognize and react to the offensive schemes. When he does show up he whiffs on the tackles. Cannot maintain coverage .

carlos's picture

Another dumb move on his part.

Coldworld's picture

I hope not. Terrible precedent. Rookie contract player who has not been able to establish himself as even a primary back up despite second round status forces his way out of GB.

As for him, how will it look to another GM playing hardball as an unproven player who doesn’t want to fight for the position he looks to have the best chance of succeeding in (and I emphasize chance). Clearly has delusions of importance. Has very poor tape in space. Why take that risk at the cost of a draft pick? Most likely only a malcontent swap or contingent pick.

I believe the team needs to not give in and move on as if he will not return. Precedent like this is important. As for the player, he could have just as likely taken the door out of the NFL as to another team.

GBPDAN1's picture

I agree, terrible precedence by bending to his demands. Make him prove himself in camp/preseason this year, then decide what to do with him. ( I feel bad for BG that he has to keep cleaning up the massive roster mess that TT left him)

jannes bjornson's picture

He's already proven he cannot play safety and accumulates penalties on sp teams. If a guy doesn't want to play for you, cut bait. Save 850K on the cap.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

I wouldn't trade him. If he causes a distration in the locker room like Randall and Monty then I would IR him so he was away from team activities. It's time to lay down some order.

Rak47's picture

Gute should tell him " sure, we'll trade you as soon as you refund all the money we wasted on you and a second round pick" until then go have a seat on the end of the bench you're are now our ST gunner and will be til we release you in 2021.

jannes bjornson's picture

At least relinquish ( re-pay) the signing bonus for 2020 and we will part ways.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

The counter is that Capers completely misused and overwhelmed Josh Jones in 2017. The decision to move him from ILB to safety in 2018 might be dumb as a rock.

The example is Randall, who was a safety in college but was forced to play CB in GB. We didn't get his signing bonus back when we traded him, and for good reason: now that he played safety, he is a perfectly capable NFL player.

porupack's picture

Tell him honest and transparently, GB will grant his wish if GB receives a 4th rounder, and if so, that proves someone can get more out of his potential than GB thus far.

See if any team wants him for 4th rounder, then do it.

Also tell him, If no takers, then he has to earn (play and provide) at least a 4th round value, otherwise, no deal.

This gives both sides a fair value as well as a fair, incentivized exit for someone (JJones) who might want out of GB, and both sides can part amicably.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Trade him. Get something for him. He sucks.

IceBowl's picture

Doug,

If he sucks, what can you get for him?

jannes bjornson's picture

Cap space.

Coldworld's picture

Not worth the precedent for the future. Can’t have a player in his position pulling this kind of rubbish.

Old School's picture

How much cap space do you free up when you cut a guy on his rookie deal, and how much of that space will you need to use on his replacement?

jannes bjornson's picture

His replacement is already on the team. The Cap savings can be carried forward or used on a veteran FA if they want to pick a guy up off the street
at the Safety, WR or ILB positions during camp or to fill an injury during the season.

Irish_Cheesehead's picture

I'd pounce on the deal if someone offers a 4th. I just don't see a team that would be interested. Not a whole lot of positive tape on Jones to seal the deal.

IceBowl's picture

In Guty I trust.

But what do you do with a player that is afraid of competition at his position? A real team player wants to do what is best for the team. And why would a team want to invest in such an attitude/player? (not much trade value if you ask me - physical traits are great, but if you don't want to compete?)

I think, do what is financially best for the Pack, but still keeping the upper hand so as not to make this type of thing commonplace or a players option while under contract. And get some of his signing bonus back to honor his request. Put him on the did not report list when attendance is mandatory.

Dzehren's picture

Jones would get maybe a 6th or 7th round pick. Keep him in GB. Packers hold all the cards. rookie contract with upside due to his athletic profile. I’d rather have Jones than a 6th rounder.

kevgk's picture

I agree, teams turn down trade requests all the time. Theres a chance he can tone down the penalties and be a rotational dime backer. He can probably blitz well, he'll probably be decent in zone coverage in the box. If we ship him off and there are injuries at ILB or SS (god forbid), it'll be a tough spot for the team. That chance is better than what a 6th rounder would net.
That being said, if an offer for a 5th comes through, take the deal. Maybe he'll flash in preseason and bait some team that has safety injuries. Or if he does suck and trade deadline rolls around, take any guaranteed pick.

Old School's picture

Slavery is illegal. You cannot force somebody to work for you. If he doesn't want to be in Green Bay, we have little choice except to trade him for what we can get and move on.

He can simply claim a back injury and get paid for doing nothing, like Mike McKenzie did. The belief that the Packers hold all the cards is an illusion.

Tarynfor12's picture

" The belief that the Packers hold all the cards is an illusion."

This runs deep in fans of GB but known more in recent years as delusional or blind optimism in regard to players.

IceBowl's picture

Tarynfor12,

I am wondering what cards J Jones has besides not playing?

And if he just quits now, he is basically done in the NFL. (although, with his $4 mil+)

Old School's picture

Ice Bowl....I know the question wasn't directed at me, but let me answer.

This is based on the Mike McKenzie experience, as well as other players on other teams across the league. All Jones has to do is report and have a mysterious "tightness in the lower back". At that point, the Packers are on the hook and have to pay him.

Some teams, when dealing with players who don't want to be there, have resorted to "locking them out" and denying them access to the facilities so that they can't claim they got injured at the workplace.

The unfortunate, but inarguable, central fact is that the Packers cannot force him to play for them. Their best recourse is to trade him for whatever they can get......and that won't be much....and move forward without the distraction.

Coldworld's picture

Lol, he has to practice to get a Football injury and the money is nothing next to the precedent. Let him sweat, see if he holds his stance through mandatory mini-camp and preseason. Put him on the no show list. What little value he had has taken a big hit with this news. We aren’t getting anything of note for him.

Old School's picture

Do you even remember Mike McKenzie or Javon Walker?

Agree that we'll be lucky to get anything for him, but we can't force him to play for us.

Coldworld's picture

Yes. I also remember that they were proven players. Completely different contractual, cost and value proposition.

Rak47's picture

Do you remeber Al Davis and Marcus Allen? Park Jones ass at the end of the bench and play him on ST and as an emergency backup only. If he pulls the fake injury crap waive him with an injury designation. He won't be able to sign with anyone I believe for a while and his value which is not much anyway would plummet, He'd be lucky to get a minimum deal for a tryout and his lack of heart and unwillingness to compete is going to have him out of the NFL sooner than later.

Old School's picture

And if he shows up for the first OTA/minicamp, and gets a mysterious tightness in his lower back, what's your next move?

Coldworld's picture

Lol, at his cost I don’t really care. Principle for a rookie contract player who is only harming himself. Hold your nerve and let him sweat.

Rak47's picture

My next move when the media asks me about Jones "mysterious injury" is to tell them it is more serious than we thought and I hope it's not career threatening because I've seen this lower back tightness before and it usually ends up going to surgery, followed by diminished play. I play the game right along with Jones til he's injured so bad no one even wants to look at him. He's not Antonio Brown, he's not anyone any GM would bring in and deal with his shananagans, if he tries to reverse course and act like it wasn't so bad afterall. Because if he does that, he's fronted out on his fake injury and turns off probably most if not every GM out there. Jones has Zero leverage.

fthisJack's picture

Jones has zero. if he doesn't play for the Packers, he doesn't play for anyone until traded or released.

IceBowl's picture

Old School,

I agree, you cannot force someone to work for you, but being under contract is not slavery.

Old School's picture

It's an exaggeration. Under slavery, you could force somebody to work for you. Not so with a contract.

As a school teacher, I signed a contract every year. If I quit, I could not sign a contract with another school district within a certain distance (I think it was 125 miles) unless the original district released me.

But they couldn't force me to stay and work. I could quit and do something else, or work as a non-contract teacher. Or I could show up, do a crappy job, and wait for the two or three month period of time it would take them to be able to fire me, and then resign before the school board took action.

If Jones doesn't want to be in Green Bay, the only real option is to trade him for whatever we can get.....which won't be much....and move on without the distraction. There's a lot of people here expressing a lot of opinions, but this is the bottom line.

IceBowl's picture

Old School,

As I said, I agree with you. "You cannot make someone work for you."

But, unlike you as a govt. employee, or even many private sector jobs, J Jones will end his career in the NFL if he does not report and sits two years (very specialized skill set) . So, I hope his talents will provide him a career change as yours did. And sure, he can fake an injury, but will that do him any good? Not if he wants to continue playing ball.

I don't like the distraction/cancer either. If HE had not killed his value, maybe a viable trade could have been worked out. Who wants someone who doesn't want to compete?

I hope this is a young man that can confer with his agent and family/friends to rethink his decision.

Think Big's picture

I have to say that if you are a school teacher.....this is an example of what is wrong with our kids today. to much playing the victim (did you really equate slavery with Josh Jones & his contract or demand for a trade)!

All I see from your posts are the sky is falling or glass is half empty. As for Josh Jones, he has no leverage, none.

Rossonero's picture

Being under contract in the NFL is not slavery. If he doesn't want to play, then he can sit out and not get paid.

The Packers have all the choices in the world:
- listen to offers and see who's interested
- refuse low ball offers and have him report to the team
- communicate his possible role on the team, which I have a feeling has not been done since the NFL draft otherwise he wouldn't be doing this

Old School's picture

What if he gets a mysterious injury?

fthisJack's picture

he's not at OTA's so who gives a shit if he gets a mysterious injury?

PackfanNY's picture

Wrong. He signed a contract and joined a union. The team is playing by the rules that have been collectively bargained. He doesn’t want to play he doesn’t show up. He is not forced to do anything.
Of course, the team doesn’t have to pay him either.

Irish_Cheesehead's picture

I don't disagree that it may be in the Packers best interest to just cut ties with Jones, but it's hardly slavery when someone voluntarily signs a contract.

Ccscooter's picture

Slavery?!?’ Are you KIDDING ME!!?!?! Josh Jones signed a $4.23 million dollar contract of his OWN FREE WILL in 2017, received a signing bonus of $1.2 million, and is being paid $850k this year. That is an absurd and ridiculous comparison.... a contract is a contract - otherwise, why have any rules?!?!

Since '61's picture

I would trade him and Kizer for a backup QB who can at least complete a pass or maybe the combination of Jones and Kizer can get us a 4th rounder.

Continue to clear out the bottom of the roster and guys like Kizer who can’t play. Thanks, Since ‘61

Old School's picture

Getting rid of guys is fine, but they have to be replaced with better players. With the draft and FA behind us, that's not going to be a piece of cake.

ILPackerBacker's picture

It's almost like dreaming the Nick Collins dream without any understanding of how long it took him, or the current jail bird yet formerly highly effective S, to actually become effective.

sam1's picture

Seems like the only time you heard this guys name was a Special Teams Penalty! Guy must have some kind of ego telling him he is good like some one else I can think of in higher office!

Handsback's picture

Why? Trade for what? Unless the whole league wants him, I doubt Gutsy could get anymore than 2-UDFAs.

optimisticfan's picture

There is a lot of the behind the scenes we probably don’t know about this yet.

My guess is he saw that he would be a backup/fill-in S and thinks he could play more somewhere else and not miss out on the chance to “make it” in the NFL (though his play hasn’t proven that). Or that the coaches told him they wanted to try him out at ILB/ ranging box 3rd safety and he balked as he thinks he can do more. Seems he could have an inflated sense of his abilities and opportunities. The safety market is buyer friendly (lot of supply, Tre Boston etc).

This sounds like a young man making a bad decision that could sink his career with the Packers or lead to him falling out of the NFL soon. Skipping OTAs and making this public was his sin. But I don’t know yet if he is quitting on the team.

With that in mind I think fans need to R-E-L-A-X and stop posting inflammatory F U comments his way. It doesn’t sound yet that this relationship is unrepairable. If there is no market to trade him he may be able to come back around and still compete for and with his teammates.

For now the Packers could try to reason with him on how he could fit into their scheme. And if the relationship goes sour then try to trade him in a packaged deal with Spriggs? to the Texans? or with Kizer to try to get more in return for the sum of both of them.

Turophile's picture

Your reply fits your handle...............nice.

Too many fu type comments, when there is too little information on the details. Let it all play out for a few days and maybe we hear more.

fthisJack's picture

the guy is already way behind the curve and now sitting out OTA's is just plain stupid? who does he think he is demanding a trade when his value is zero?

4thand1's picture

The off season sucks

CAG123's picture

Wow the comments thrown at this man shows a lack of character most of you are saying he doesn’t have. From a small snippet of a story we don’t know the entirety of he’s suddenly dumb, lazy, has a huge ego, a cancer etc. like I said before most of you saw him as another bad TT pick and the odd man out so why the hell are you complaining that he wants to be traded? Some of you guys are coming off as the type of people who doesn’t want a particular item until someone else wants it. I’ve seen quite a few comments suggesting they trade him anyway so why all the fuss now?

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

I sure hope the Pack and him have been taking about this behind the scenes for weeks vs him simply saying he wants a trade.

How many on here would willingly trade Jones and Kizer in a packaged deal to Dorsey/Browns for Randall now?

MarkinMadison's picture

If they were doing that he wouldn’t have gone public. Going public undercuts the Packers’ ability to bargain. It was a dumb move by any measure.

Old School's picture

Jones is maybe worth a 7th to somebody. I'd been stunned if anybody traded for Kizer.

The draft is over. Free Agency has largely run it's course. We need a backup QB and a backup safety.

sonomaca's picture

Rumor is Jones for Ethan Pocic. Two underperforming malcontents.

Lare's picture

That would seem to make sense. Two players who no longer fit in the scheme/system they're in.

Coldworld's picture

Malcontent for malcontent is perhaps the best scenario now but one had better have a clear view of whether the incoming player is going to be worth acquiring in terms of play and attitude. Otherwise cut works just fine, but not at this point. He is the one with the most to lose. This is not a starter we were relying on.

4thand10's picture

I don’t know much about this business side of football. But what happens if GB does nothing? , in other words doesn’t release him or trade him? Does that mean he sits out of football for a year until his rookie contract is up? Do we get a comp pick in that situation since essentially he’s not playing ? How does this work?

greengold's picture

If Gutey can get anything for him in trade, that would be a win. Would not be surprised to see him cut.

Old School's picture

Entirely possible. The only reason a team would trade for him is to keep him off the waiver wire, and all they'd need to give is a 7th rounder.

What's Kentrell Brice doing these days?

Coldworld's picture

Fortunately he signed a one year deal with Tampa Bay. Jones not being able to beat out Brice whom they declined to tender just emphasizes his lack of relevance to the future at safety in GB.

Jermaine Whitehead, probably better at safety than either last year, is with the Browns.

MarkinMadison's picture

Jones has been a disappointment, but his major problem is his brain. Someone will take a chance on his freak athletic skills, but you can’t fix stupid. The Packers need the depth. He still needs to prove he can play. If he had any guts he’d just go out as a savvy third year player and take Savage’s job away faster than you could say rookie. Instead he wants to run away from his problem.

sonomaca's picture

If you can get a 6th for Kizer, take it. Apparently, the best you’re getting for Jones is conditional 7th.

Rossonero's picture

I smell a sense of entitlement from Josh Jones.

Why?

He made the comment in 2018 about "you spent a 2nd round pick on me and I'm just sitting on the bench," or something to that effect.

Now, to be fair, McCarthy admitted after the 2017 season that the team "threw too much at Josh Jones" and it basically was information overload for him.

Then, he gets hurt in 2018 and couldn't beat out KENTRELL FREAKING BRICE for a starting safety spot?? His confidence is obviously so low that he doesn't even want to TRY to compete for a starting safety spot, he just wants out. But in 2018, he just looked lost playing deep safety. Too many mental mistakes. He's clearly better closer to the line of scrimmage, so I hope Pettine can leverage his strengths since we now have two capable safeties.

The Packers can obviously listen to offers, but trading Jones away for a late rounder is a horrific waste of a 2nd round pick.

As far as I'm concerned, Jones is under contract. He signed his contract, and just because he feels entitled to starting is NOT a good reason to give into his demands.

If I were Matt LaFleur, I'd have Mike Pettine pick up the phone and call Josh Jones to talk him off the ledge. I get the feeling that the moment Darnell Savage was drafted, Josh Jones was probably swearing on his couch, and has realized that he'll be confined to the bench.

I'm sure the Packers have some sort of plans for Jones, but has anything been communicated? We may never know until Jones backs down on his request.

Coldworld's picture

Good comment. I agree if not already attempted

Old School's picture

I'm wondering if getting Mike Tyson might have been the straw that broke Josh Jones back. You say, Rossonero, that you're sure the Packers had plans for him. I'm not so sure.t

When the offseason began, Josh Jones was at the top of the safety list. Then we didn't resign Brice. Jones had to figure he was in it. He was working hard and hearing the right things blah blah blah.

Then...we acquire Amos. Then we draft a starting safety. You realize you're looking at being #3 or #4. Then we get Tyson and a few days later we start hearing about all this stuff.

MAYBE.....Jones isn't a big piece of what the Packers are doing, and he might be cut before the season starts. Maybe Jones is coming to the realization that his chances might be better somewhere else if he can get there ahead of time. So yeah, I don't have a problem with him going somewhere else if that's the way he feels. Go out and get somebody who wants to be here.

Coldworld's picture

He is a high draft rookie. No business whining about additional draft picks let alone FAs. If he had established himself there wouldn’t be a conversation, or does this suggest he would be holding out for money instead?

Play better, get snaps, make plays, force your way onto a team, cash in. Maybe we should shut him in a room with Hollman and let him learn what life is about. Nothing is given for long in the NFL.

fthisJack's picture

with his shit attitude, he won't cut it anywhere. he obviously doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to work his ass off to get what he wants. he'll be out the league in 2 years.....maybe 1.

Rossonero's picture

Oldschool: Well, yes. There is a plan for Jones....not as a starting safety, but they had to have an idea of using him somehow.

Sometimes guys throw tantrums in the off-season only to report later once financial penalties hit. At the end of the day, these guys are professionals.

Jones has an attitude no doubt. If he's still bitching midseason, then he'll be dealt at the trade deadline. I feel like Damarious Randall and Haha Clinton-Dix were bad influences on him though. Both ex-Packers copped an attitude and started chirping to the media to cause distractions.

jannes bjornson's picture

So, let's move all the malcontent out. Nobody left in the secondary from the Atlanta debacle.

Rossonero's picture

Josh Jones wasn't on the team during the loss to Atlanta. That was the 2016 NFC championship and he was drafted in spring 2017.

stockholder's picture

Regardless of whether or not Jones has a over inflated opinion of himself. Jones will earn a base salary of $849,856, while carrying a cap hit of $1,154,567 and a dead cap value of $609,424. He very well could have been casualty in 2019. By demanding a trade he puts it on the packers, and not his play. I can't see the packers paying him now. It's now just a waiting game until Gute cuts him. Jones is an injury, waiting to happen now. Something the packers won't want any part of. The writing is on the wall that Jones will get his demand.

IceBowl's picture

stockholder'

Is that how it works if J Jones doesn't report? I don't know. But it doesn't seem like "it is on the packers" as you say.

But I do know L Bell didn't report last year and lost some $14 mil. in salary.

Old School's picture

If Jones doesn't report, then that's fine by Green Bay. The problem is that Jones might report. And immediately develop a tightness in his hammy, or lower back. Or he might just show up and play crappy through OTAs and minicamps. Eventually, you have to cut him, or keep him around on some list so he can be a distraction with a bad attitude.

The best move by the Packers is to resolve this as quickly as possible. IF they can get anything for him, great. If not, give him his release. The season is approaching and there's no reason to have a guy who doesn't want to be there on the mission.

As regards to that Bell/Pittsburgh thing.....who benefited from that? Were the Steelers better? (Answer=No). Was Bell better off without all that money ?

IceBowl's picture

Old School,

I am really not trying to argue with you, and as I have said, I mostly agree with you. I just see different outcomes. You see a cancer, I see an example to the team.

You say ....... "As regards to that Bell/Pittsburgh thing.....who benefited from that? Were the Steelers better? (Answer=No). Was Bell better off without all that money ?"

I will say the Steelers benefited from the L Bell situation. Not in wins or losses. That cost them losses.

The organization/team benefited. I highly doubt a 3rd year Steeler, under contract, is going to be asking for a trade. :-)

Old School's picture

Well, I think you send a lot of messages when you do something like that, whether you're the Steelers or Bell.

But the message you're NOT sending is "I'm focused on accomplishing the mission". Is our mission winning the division? (Yes). Is our mission dependent on Josh Jones? (No). Would we rather focus our time and energy on the mission or on sending a message? (Duh).

Jones doesn't want to be here. The team has let other safeties go (Burnett, Dix, Whitehead, Brice and then signed a FA to start, spent a firt round pick on a starter, and just brought another guy in (Tyson). Maybe the team has other plans, Jones realizes that, and wants to go somewhere else where he can try again. It's not going to happen here, we can't force it to happen here, and the sooner all parties move on the better.

Coldworld's picture

As I understand it, the basic situation is as follows.

There's a $70,000 fine for skipping a mandatory minicamp. There's s penalty up to $30,000 s team can assess the player for every missed day of training camp. They can also dock each guy the equivalent of a game check -- 1/17th of his salary -- for missing a preseason contest. And if an under-contract player doesn't report by Aug. 5, he loses an accrued season. He can be fined if not present at mandatory camp, but these OTAs are voluntary.

If he is cut he gets nothing. He has no further guaranteed money. If he is traded he gets to keep his current deal: about 850k this year and a a little over a million next year. As a comparison, Ibrahim Campbell signed for $705k last year.

The thing about Jones is that the longer he is unsigned the less time he has to show that he can contribute to any team and has grown from last year.

He can show up and feign injury. His problem is that’s just another knock on a record already containing questionable play and now potential to be a troublemaker. Should he do that, the worst outcome for the Packers would be to cut him and take an injury settlement, should that happen the settlement would likely go to arbitration, but any passing of a physical would cap the applicable period. He would not be present if physically unable to perform.

Thus he is unlikely to get anything like his full salary if released on health grounds and couldn’t play without further diminishing it. Moreover, he would have to negotiate a new contract, which I can’t believe would match his current deal.

Overall, he has little to no leverage unless the Packers really saw him as an important part of their plans, which I doubt. Perhaps he will see sense, perhaps he just needs some love or perhaps he is a misguided individual who thinks the Packers are the reason he is not starting at safety (or has a group around him telling him that).

Either way, he is hurting himself more than the Packers. The roster is now packed with athleticism in short area coverage types and we have players who are no worse in space if not considerably better among our DB depth.

jannes bjornson's picture

As was pointed out to me, previously, He still carries the 304K prorated bonus against the Cap in 2019 and 2020. As your case of pressure with patience is valid in the sense he has limited to zero leverage if he doesn't report by the opening of the regular season. His agent will have to sniff out a deal or he sits all year. LeFleur's point of view is" Do I want a distraction?" as he tries to mold the team into a harmonious Unit. Gutekunst doesn't want to eat the Cap hit, but in the end, its a write-off for the accountants.

flackcatcher's picture

I wonder how much of this is his agent's doing. NFL teams got video on him, they know his value. I saw him more as a in line SS/hybrid type, but with most of the secondary gutted by injuries in the second half of the season, I thought he was playing bit out of position. Just too early for this. Strange.

Ryan B Dub's picture

Any chance we Trade Josh Jones, and Jimmy Graham for a seventh round pick? Any way to write in that the new team has to pay the dead money on Graham’s contract? 7th round pick is better than what the two have brought.

4thand1's picture

Not GM material ^^^^^^^^^

Slim11's picture

Had a soldier with a similar attitude when I was a company commander during my National Guard career. He had an overrated sense of his role in the unit and decided to go AWOL...a lot!

My predecessor put up with it. I didn’t. I insisted he do the job he signed up to do as a soldier. He tried to transfer to an Air Force Reserve unit in the area and I tried to help him.

Following his initial request for transfer, I caught him lying to me. Now, all bets were off. His request for transfer became a discharge action with a permanent ban to re-enlistment. He was less than two years from retirement.

Josh Jones is that soldier. He thinks he’s better, and more important, than he really is. His frustration is understandable but he has no one to blame other than himself. That’s evident by running away from the challenge posed by Savage and Amos.

There’s a reserve-did not report list for this reason. I have no sympathy for his predicament. It’s of his own choosing.

Old School's picture

So what if he reports and then feigns injury? What if he starts lying about you to the media? What if he's just a malcontent PITA?

Jones can just show up and be crappy and negative until the Packers finally have to cut him.

The Packers can be dicks. Jones could be a dick. Who benefits from any of that? Cut the dude loose for whatever you can get in return, and if you can't get anything in return, chalk it up to addition by subtraction. Find a replacement safety. Move forward.

IceBowl's picture

Old school,

You keep saying the same thing in different words. And I agree.

YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM PLAY. (The NBA proves that)

No one can. But for the Pack, it is not that simple. They have to have a posture to build a team using their precious draft picks + expensive FA's + UDFA to build their BEST roster for today and into the future. I don't think giving a player (any player) roster decisions will ever be in the best interest of the Pack. (lack of GM's knowledge and expertise)

He signed, took his money, and then opened his mouth creating all kinds of negatives for both he and the Pack.

I do not think he needs to be rewarded for his decisions and lack of effort. Condoning/acquiescing to such demands cannot give the Pack a positive appearance. (next Bleacher report story? LOL)

Coldworld's picture

And he can’t play for 2 years if we don’t let him.

The worst outcome of a feigned injury is an arbitrated partial season payout. Team doctors pass him fit, his doctors object: arbitrated period of injury concluded. That’s it. I wouldn’t care if it was the whole season. His salty is minor, what he is trying to pull is unheard of under the current CBA for an unproven rookie deal player. To let him get away with it would not be good for the Packers or the NFL.

The most likely outcome is that he caves. Reality is that will still likely count against him here and elsewhere. If he doesn’t, we move in and he gets fined up the wazoo or cut and having to argue against medical assessments under the current circumstances and then try to renegotiate a contract a fraction of what he is now on.

fthisJack's picture

Jones is playing it like he has the nuts but the Packers know he has Jack high garbage. call his bluff. he ain't going anywhere unless the Packers say so.

Slim11's picture

If he reports and feigns injury, he is digging a deeper hole. He’s developing a reputation no player wants to have and no team wants to deal with.

So far as I can tell, he’s on his way off the team and, maybe, the NFL. He might wind up in the XFL or an indoor league.

Old School's picture

In regards to the question in the title, the final answer is.....

Yes. Because he doesn't want to be there. Fine. Jones can pretend injury or be a distraction and nobody benefits from that. The Packers surely don't need to have somebody on the mission that doesn't want to be there.

Best case scenario for the Packers is a trade that lands them a pick in next year's draft, or maybe a player we think we can use, even if it's a swap of malcontents.

So....who are the safety backups? I thought Jones would be one but wasn't sure of the other. Now I don't have any idea, really. Raven Greene? Some UDFA? Tramon? Campbell? Tyson?

Maybe it was getting Tyson that was the straw that broke Jones' back. Jones doesn't think he's part of the plan for this season....and maybe he's right..... and he'd rather sign up with somebody else where things might be different.

My main concern is the team on the field, and I don't think we're losing that much and we'll be able to replace him. It would have been nice if things had worked out differently. I do agree with the opinion that has been expressed here that he might be a better fit as a weakside LB in a 4-3 alignment, like the guy in Arizona was.

As always, it is what it is. The team will move forward.

IceBowl's picture

Bottom line,

J Jones doesn't want to be a Packer!! OK, his decision.

But also, he doesn't want to compete!! He doesn't want to fight for his job!! He doesn't believe in himself!!

All the NFL is watching the same thing. Would you pay to bring him in to your team?? Let alone offer something for him??

As I said earlier, I hope he has an agent and family/friends that can talk this very talented young man to rethink this position. The Pack can use his skills if he gets a "want to."

Old School's picture

So we agree, then, Ice Bowl.

He doesn't want to be here, we don't want a guy like this around. Trade him for what we can get....which won't be much.....and if we can't trade him, then cut him and move on.

Whatever "skills" he might have.....I could give a crap. I wouldn't run a lemonade stand with somebody who didn't want to be there.

Coldworld's picture

No, As I read it, Ice Bowl correctly says we should not reward him. You say we should give him what he wants. Those are diametrically opposite positions.

Again, unless Jones is not realistically replaceable he has zero value now other than the fraction of his salary he might be able to get from injury arbitration, if he can get that.

Irish_Cheesehead's picture

Trade him to da Bears!

IceBowl's picture

Irish_Cheesehead,

Good idea. We can get HaHa.

Ha ha!

Coldworld's picture

No No!

fthisJack's picture

HaHa will pay dividends for us with da Bears! Rodgers will eat his lunch!~

dobber's picture

Sadly, I think HHCD will look more than passable playing behind that front 7. He won't be an all-pro, but I don't think he'll be the liability he was in GB.

mrtundra's picture

I'd bet that HHCD will give up on plays in Chicago, just like he did in GB. ARod should target whomever HHCD is covering, all game long! Whether it is Davante, GMO, ESB, MVS, Kumerow, or whomever, ARod can have a lot of success against Chicago going after HHCD's assignment.

IceBowl's picture

I would think HaHa will want to play "lights out" against the Pack. Proving them wrong.

And yes, ARod knows his tendencies and weaknesses and how to exploit him.

Mojo's picture

If I were Josh Jones and my real intent was to get out of GB, I would not let it be known outside the GB brass that I want to be traded.

The reason; my marketability immediately goes down when an outside teams is aware of the discord between the player and his team. This makes it LESS likely a deal can get done because the organization interested in acquiring is going to low-ball as much as possible now that they know GB feels they need to deal. If GB tries to get anywhere near where Jones was drafted if could delay things.

Jones would be better going to his position coach with the trade demand and having him move up the chain without making it public. Both he and GB would benefit and I think a deal gets done, in private, quicker.

Now all of this could be a way for Jones to get the coaches attention about his role and PT. Maybe he figures he has nothing to lose. If they trade him, fine he goes to a team you'd assume will use him more. If not he plays it out and either gets cut or in a couple years becomes a FA.

At least now he knows they know how dissatisfied he is with his sitch in GB.

Which leads to a really good topic. Does a team ever benefit from forcing a player to stay with them, even though he doesn't want to be there?

IceBowl's picture

Mojo,

You say ... "Now all of this could be a way for Jones to get the coaches attention about his role and PT."

If anyone on the Packers gave Jones, or anyone, playing time for this kind of nonsense, I would lose faith in 1265. And they would end up being a losing organization. It's gotta run from the top down, not the reverse.

I don't think it benefits anyone to "force" a player to be with the team.

I also doesn't benefit the team/organization to allow a player under contract to dictate his options. Bad Business!!

Coldworld's picture

Very well put Ice Bowl.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

In case your upset that this is the Packers big problem

bleacherreport dot com minnesota-vikings-are-desperate-to-escape-the-nfls-worst-quarterback-trap

IceBowl's picture

Don't care much for the bleacher report reporting.

Every one of us can say "someone said." Means nothing.

ReaganRulz's picture

Have him audition during pre-season with the hopes that he performs and somebody will give us a decent future draft pick. If he plays great, then maybe it will be the motivation that he needs to stay with the Packers.

cheesycowboy's picture

OTAs are voluntary so no big deal at this point. The players participating are fighting for a roster spot on this team, not concerned with outside drama.
The coaching staff is concerned with putting the best 53 man roster together over the course of the next 3 months with the players available.
Jones is under contract for two more years and if this strategy is coming from his agent, Jones needs a new agent or more intestinal fortitude for the game.
Randall gone. Dix gone. Tramon to safety sends a message that there were malcontents in the secondary.
The Packers organization holds the key to Jones' future. Let's see what happens when mini camp opens. Thanks

Old School's picture

I love the mindset among some of you that we'll either FORCE Jones to play for us OR we'll try to ruin him to the maximum extent of our capabilities.

That's leadership. That's a winning attitude.

dobber's picture

IMO the problem is how Jones is handling this. We would hope that he's had numerous sit-downs with coaches and with BG behind closed doors, but still came to work--lunchpail in hand--and did his job. That doesn't seem to be the case. Since we've heard little else, it seems that his first step is to put this out in the media and try to strong-arm the team. He played his case shortly out of TC last year, then got a chance to play due to the HHCD trade and Brice injuries and was a liability on-field.

I think most of us would agree that his best recourse is to come to camp, earn a significant role, and play himself into a position of value. What we perceive is someone who wants something for nothing...which doesn't play well with most people.

dobber's picture

There are only a small number of ways this can go. JSOnline had a piece from OTAs this morning where they ask TWill about this and he basically shrugged it off and said that Jones isn't helping himself. He does say that Jones shouldn't bring his problems into the locker room.

jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/21/packers-safety-josh-jones-skipping-otas-wants-traded/3750962002/

In the end, I think he's likely got people whispering in his ears who are not giving him good advice. He got a lot of snaps last season and the team promptly buried him on the S depth chart this off-season: what message is he getting from the team? Either, 1) you aren't currently good enough--in which case his staying away from the team during OTAs hurts him significantly. or 2) we don't want you to play S. Maybe that means ST until he grows as a player. Maybe it means they want him to play primarily at ILB...and he doesn't want to.

Old School's picture

Dobber....have you ever had a job where you felt your boss didn’t much like you and there wasn’t much of a future for you?

I think Jones has seen Amos and Savage join the team and he realizes they’re the starters. He also sees guys like Tyson being brought in and he comes to the conclusion that a fresh start with another team would be better for him.

We don’t really need Jones and I’m sure he’ll be traded or released shortly.

IceBowl's picture

Old School,

You say ......"I think Jones has seen Amos and Savage join the team and he realizes they’re the starters. He also sees guys like Tyson being brought in and he comes to the conclusion that a fresh start with another team would be better for him."

..."better for him." Since when do professional athletes have the option of not playing their best, not trying their best, and honoring their contract (if they have one), honoring their team or honoring their sport . All pro athletes. Who expects not to face competition?? Who doesn't want to be #1, the best?? Quitters, in my opinion. Those that do not have "heart" for their sport anymore.

And if they decide to "give up'" they are the ones hurting themselves. They are the ones letting others take their spot or #1 (or 2,3,4) ranking.

I say Jones still has time to reconsider this choice and his profession. If he doesn't, I don't think his heart is in it. And then he is done in football.

Old School's picture

Ice Bowl......I don't see any positives for the organization in trying to force Jones to play for us when he doesn't want to.

And I don't blame Jones for wanting to go somewhere else if he doesn't think it's going to work out for him here.

Turn the page. Trade him if possible, release him if not. Get another safety in FA. Move on without the distraction.

IceBowl's picture

Old School,

Come on guy. I have posted positives for the org. above. Apparently you dismiss them. OK, your opinion.

J Jones is just shooting himself in the foot. Who does J Jones hurt by not reporting? J Jones the most!! What is his fastest way to a trade?? Reporting and showing his talents and "heart." At least show something the Pack can trade.

And what does "wanting to go" have anything to do with his contract, or pro sports. The "want to" he (all of them) needs is to get better than the next guy. Maybe the next CBA will include trade demand clauses, but not yet.

Wouldn't it have been something if, last year, D Adams (anyone) saw all the new WR's brought in and decided to take his ball and go home?? Deciding he "wanted to go" somewhere else because he didn't think it's going to work out for him here.

Old School's picture

OK, you've convinced me Ice Bowl. The best thing for the Packers to do is to force Jones to stay here and play for a team he doesn't want to be with.

IceBowl's picture

From Packers.com

"....Secondary coach Jason Simmons

(on the opportunity Raven Greene has at safety)

"He has the same one everybody else has. I can’t say one guy has more of a chance than anybody else if what I’m preaching is competitiveness, and people are competing for jobs."...."

This is what the Packers are telling the players in camp. Everyone has the same chance. Apparently J Jones doesn't hear this.

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