What's The Holdup On The Aaron Rodgers Trade?
The Jets want to trade for Aaron Rodgers. The Packers want to trade Rodgers to the Jets. Why is this taking so long?
By BruceIrons
There's a lot of theories on why the Packers and Jets - specifically Brain Gutekunst and Joe Douglas - haven't finished the deal.
Is it an alpha male stubbornness contest?
I don't think so, these guys are professionals.
Is it a case of two guys who are used to getting their way?
Maybe. Last year Gutenkunst shipped a receiver nearing 30, who wanted the biggest receiver contract in NFL history, and only had one trade destination, and managed to get 1st and 2nd round picks in return.
If you think that's a heist, Joe Douglas shipped Jamal Adams, a safety with two career interceptions, to Seattke and got 2 first rounders in return!
It could be that these guys both see themselves as master negotiators and don't want to get outmatched.
Those are all possibilities, but the more I thought about it, the more i wondered if there was something else.
The whole situation just seems so bizarre, and everyone is talking about leverage and negotiating tactics and all kinds of things that don't seem to totally make sense.
What if there was another factor?
You know those movies where a character acts odd because someone else is forcing them to?
What if the, when the Jets flew out to meet Aaron Rodgers, they had to make some promises to get the the 40 year old who said he was 90% sure he would retire to come back and play?
What if they had to promise to sign Allen Lazard? What if they had to promise to sign another free agent wide receiver like Mecole Hardman? What if they had to promise some other things...
You know, there was a lot of talk over the last couple of decades about how the Packers never took a wide receiver in the 1st round. What if the Jets had to promise Rodgers they would take a receiver with the 13th overall pick?
Rodgers said for years that he wanted more weapons. Plenty of people think that meant 1st round receivers.
And Rodger reportedly gave them a wish list of sorts for what he wanted.
Could the Jets have guaranteed him a receiver (or maybe a tackle or some other piece that would help the offense) at 13?
I think they might have.
If they did, what does that mean for negotiations?
It means the Jets really won't budge in their reported demand to keep the 13 overall pick.
They probably wouldn't be too keen on swapping 13 for 15 as part of a deal, either (at least not without Rodgers's permission to do it).
Rodgers, who said he was 90% sure he was retired, might not be interested in playing if he doesn't get all the things he wanted.
That would mean the Packers would have to budge off wanting the 13th overall pick to make this work.
That could push negotiations past the draft.
Maybe that means the Jets would be willing to give up a 1st round pick in 2024 as part of the deal, when Rodgers might not even be back (and would care less) and the Jets would expect to have a much less valuable 1st round pick.
Or maybe Rodgers does plan on playing at least two seasons, in which case, he might have some demands on how New York uses their 2024 1st round pick.
Maybe the Jets have been looking at stockpiling multiple 2nd round picks to appease the Packers without giving up the 1st round picks that Rodgers has already spoken for.
That's a lot of maybes.
We'll likely never know the whole story, but the idea that Rodgers has a say on how the Jets use the 13th overall pick would go a long way in explaining why it is taking so long to get a deal done when both teams have publicly stated they want to get a deal done.
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
__________________________
Bruce Irons has played, coached, and studied football for decades. Best-selling author of books such as A Fan's Guide To Understanding The NFL Draft, A Fan's Guide To Understanding The NFL Salary Cap, and A Fan's Guide To NFL Free Agency Hits And Misses, Bruce contributes to CheeseHeadTV and PackersForTheWin.com.
Follow Bruce Irons on Twitter at @BruceIronsNFL.
__________________________
Comments (210)
Savage57
March 31, 2023 at 06:19 am
So what you're saying is maybe Aaron Rodgers is holding the Packers hostage to his demands in order for him to decide to play?
Again.
NickPerry
March 31, 2023 at 06:20 am
"We'll likely never know the whole story, but the idea that Rodgers has a say on how the Jets use the 13th overall pick would go a long way in explaining why it is taking so long to get a deal done when both teams have publicly stated they want to get a deal done."
If that was REALLY the case, then Douglas is not nearly as sharp as I thought he was. I mean he's built a pretty damn good team up over there with the exception of the QB position. BUT, to promise a man like Aaron Rodgers ANYTHING, when you know the moment you do anything he doesn't like or feels he was wronged Rodgers will PUBLICALLY roast your ass.
God luck Mr. Douglas.
TKWorldWide
March 31, 2023 at 07:27 am
Some (not me) love the smell of roasted ass in the morning.
jannesbjornson
March 31, 2023 at 08:06 am
Zach Wilson as the #2 overall pick of the 2021 draft. He was Douglas' guy, he whiffed bigtime and reveals the lack of acumen this guy brings to the negotiating table. The Holdup on this deal is the Money transfer.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 11:31 am
Has Douglas really even built that great of a team? He struck gold on one draft class in which he had 2 top 10 picks, another 1st rounder, and a high 2nd rounder. He whiffed on Zack Wilson, whiffed on Elijah Moore, whiffed on Denzel Mims, etc. I could strike gold with 4 top 40 picks in a loaded draft class lol.
LLCHESTY
March 31, 2023 at 06:40 am
Yawn.
LeotisHarris
March 31, 2023 at 08:35 am
We're almost there. Just a little bit longer. Do you want to play the license plate game?
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 12:04 pm
Slugbug!
dobber
March 31, 2023 at 10:17 am
Well articulated!
Bitternotsour
March 31, 2023 at 01:33 pm
These articles are beginning to take on the character of conversations between bong hits. Like, "what if like Aaron Rodgers made the Jets promise to buy him a time machine" that probably explains why the Jets aren't doing a deal yet.
Conversely, maybe this was the first article on Cheesehead TV written by ChatGPT. Prompt "write an article about the delayed trade between Green Bay and NYJ at the level of a jr. high student newspaper, with conjecture over why a trade hasn't been consumated"
I have an idea, what if the Packers own an asset, and they have a value on that asset, and the suiter hasn't met the sales price?
stockholder
March 31, 2023 at 07:04 am
There will be Fall out.
The minute he is traded.
We're talking the greatest Packer ever.
A Legend. A Hall of Fame player.
And Legends are not made over night.
Truth- ????
His attacks were against the Administration.
And they pushed right Back.
With cheap unprofessional comments.
Meant to question his integrity. Respect.
History- ????
The other greats that left. Who got used up.
And they never wavered in praise for GB either.
Why- ????
Trading a great for peanuts,
is the bottom Line.
Everyone knows Rodgers still can play.
But nobody knows if Love can.
So let's just forget who's at fault.
The message is their still idiots.
Savage57
March 31, 2023 at 07:19 am
They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go.
The franchise has survived the departure of Lambeau, Hutson, Isbell, Starr, Lombardi, Lofton, Favre before him because no man is bigger than the franchise, your disturbingly zealous fanboy allegiance and truly bizarre syntax notwithstanding.
stockholder
March 31, 2023 at 07:26 am
This isn't about Surviving.
It's about Power.
Savage57
March 31, 2023 at 07:44 am
This is about whatever you imagine it to be.
Since'61
March 31, 2023 at 09:22 am
Savage57 - at this point it's about clicks. And the longer it goes on the more clicks there will be. Thanks, Since '61
MainePackFan
March 31, 2023 at 11:30 am
True Since'61. I guess if it works, why change it. Quite simple actually. Just write an article blaming Aaron Rodgers for everything, based completely on subjective thought, and off you go. Easy- peasy : )
Since'61
March 31, 2023 at 04:15 pm
MainePackFan - the problem is that it is too easy to assign blame and guilt. Both are 2 sides of the same emotion but neither solves anything or provides any solutions.
I have yet to see one article about everything that Rodgers has done for the Packers, their fans and the organization during his career in Green Bay. Just think what the last 15 years in Green Bay would have been like without Aaron Rodgers. Which QB would the team have preferred to have besides Rodgers over the last 15 seasons. Brady, Brees, Rothelsberger and both Mannings are out of the equation because their careers were already committed to their teams before Rodgers was a starting QB in Green Bay. Who would that leave in Green Bay from 2008 to 2022?
I give MLF credit for his comment during the owners meetings that Rodgers level of play has meant a lot to his coaches, and team mates. He made their careers for the most part including MLF. Where would they be without the play of Aaron Rodgers?
I firmly believe that it is time for the Packers to move on but to treat arguably the team's greatest player as a criminal on his way out the door is in and of itself a crime. I wish Rodgers well in whatever he chooses next. I have advocated that his best move would be retirement and I still hope that is what he chooses to do.
Thanks, Since '61
MainePackFan
March 31, 2023 at 07:20 pm
Great post Since'61. MLF spoke the truth. He and Gute have made a ton of money because of Rodgers. It would be interesting to see what history would say if Brian Gutekunst hadn't been the GM in 2020. Regardless, now he owns it. Hopefully he got it right.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 07:46 am
If you think a team's power should rest in one player rather than the team's management, then you literally have no idea what you're talking about.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 08:14 am
The team's management would have been long fired if not for Rodgers.
Rodgers led the team to more years of playoffs (11), more NFC Championship games (5), and more playoff games (21) than any of the other 200+ QBs that occupied the other NFC teams rosters during Rodgers 15 years as a starter and he did this:
Despite Packers never having drafted a receiver, tight end or running back in the first round in Aaron Rodgers 18 years as a Packer;
And despite the Packers only having spent 2 first round draft picks (Sherrod & Bulaga) on the offensive line in Aaron Rodgers 18 years as a Packer;
And despite the Packers having used their first draft picks on defense in 14 of the 17 years since Aaron Rodger was drafted in 2002 and despite the Packers STILL never having a top ranked defense and a top 10 ranked defense only 3 times in Aaron Rodgers 15 years as a starter;
In Aaron Rodgers 15 years as the Packers' starting QB the Packers played in 21 post season games, more than any of the other 15 NFC teams during that 15 year time span, all of those teams rotating through multiple QBs during those 15 years.
As far as the Tom Brady comparisons, from the time that Aaron Rodgers became a starter in 2008, Tom Brady had the higher ranked defense supporting him 14 of the 15 years - all but 3 of those years Brady had a top 10 ranked defense behind him, Aaron has a top 10 ranked defense only 3 of the 15 years.
Defensive Ranking
Year NE/TB GB
2008 8 22
2009 5 7
2010 8 2
2011 15 19
2012 9 11
2013 10 24
2014 8 13
2015 10 12
2016 1 21
2017 5 26
2018 7 22
2019 1 9
2020 8 13
2021 5 13
2022 13 17
jannesbjornson
March 31, 2023 at 08:29 am
Not to mention the Top-Ranked Special Teams units directed by Big Bad Bill. His Sp Teams units essentially, Won two SBs for the Pats. Three Phases of Football wins the Big Game.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 12:06 pm
Rodgers wouldve never been a Packer in the first place if not for management but lets just ignore that little piece of information.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 08:00 am
Yep, after Starr, 23 years and just 2 of those 23 years in the playoffs. Lots of losing seasons, but I was watching an cheering at every game.
jannesbjornson
March 31, 2023 at 08:17 am
They had real cheerleaders at the time, the frizbee dogs and the Packer Band. The Tailgate Zone was the six block area, not a sledding hill and some speculators renting party houses...
LeotisHarris
March 31, 2023 at 03:26 pm
The Packer Band still plays in my head on every kickoff at Lambeau.
SteveJHarris
March 31, 2023 at 08:18 am
Greatest ever???!!!
Packers0808
March 31, 2023 at 08:36 am
In my book maybe 7 rank of 10. Why his crybaby piss poor attitude. Never really a Packer he was Aaron Rodgers first!
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 07:40 am
"We're talking the greatest Packer ever."
No, even close to being remotely true. If you actually think this, then you know absolutely no Packers history, which would surprise me because I'm pretty sure you approaching or over 80. Two names for you: Don Hutson. Bart Starr.
"A Legend. A Hall of Fame player."
A legend? In his own mind perhaps (and yours, obviously). A HoFer? Yes, duh. Nobody will dispute this.
"And Legends are not made over night.
Truth- ????"
Word salad. I'd like 1000 Island with mine, thanks.
"His attacks were against the Administration."
Yes they were, and with "cheap unprofessional comments." Evidence? His pre-draft day 2021 rant.
"And they pushed right Back.
With cheap unprofessional comments.
Meant to question his integrity. Respect."
No, no they didn't. What world are you living in? This isn't remotely true. Yeah, they so disrespected him that they gave him the keys to the car and let him drive it into the telephone pole of an 8-9 season.
"History- ????
The other greats that left. Who got used up.
And they never wavered in praise for GB either.
Why- ????"
They don't get 'used up', they age out of the league. Their praise was at least genuine. Evidence? Donald Driver. Le Roy Butler. I'll bet you $1000 that Rodgers never ever shows up for an Alumni Day in Lambeau.
"Trading a great for peanuts,
is the bottom Line."
That's because Murphy gave Rodgers a beyond-stupid contract. This is not Rodgers' fault. Sometimes, when you ask for the moon some idiot actually gives it to you.
"Everyone knows Rodgers still can play."
Wrong. Everyone ASSUMES Rodgers can still play. No one actually knows this.
"But nobody knows if Love can."
Wrong again. The coaching staff and GM (and by extension, Murphy via Scooter) know that Love can play. We can ASSUME that they also know that Love will not be playing at an HoF level this season. But we can also ASSUME that Rodgers won't be either (if he had remained with GB, at least), based on his average performance last season.
"So let's just forget who's at fault.
The message is their still idiots."
When one writes about a group of people being "idiots", one should at least spell "they're" correctly or one risks looking like... well, I think you get the message.
I almost forgot... I got the Bonkers Scale fixed. This missive is a strong 9.25747355 on the Scale.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 08:26 am
Wake up to reality.
Rodgers won 2 of the 3 passer rating titles - finishing ahead of all 31 other NFL starting QBs. Mahomes, Brady, Burrow, Herbert, Tua, and on and on.
Rodgers won 2 of the last 3 MVPs.
The last 4 seasons the Packers were 13-3, 13-3, and 13-4 and 3-1 when Aaron broke this thumb last year.
The NFL in Passer Rating, as you know measures 4 variables - 1) Touchdown passes per pass attempt, 2) completion percentage, 3) yards per pass attempt and 4) interception percentage. Aaron's passer rating after 4 games last year was 97.5% which would have placed him 8th out of 32 starting QBS at the end of the season.
And if you take out just 1 drop - for instance the 75 yard dropped touchdown pass against Minnesota on opening day and record it as a touchdown pass - his passer rating through those 4 games would have been 102.99 - that would have placed Aaron in a tie for 4th with Garoppolo - 4th out of 32 starting QBs - trailing only Brock Purdy (107.3), Tua (105.5) and Mahomes (105.2) at the end of the season. Aaron last year had to deal with 41 drops vs. only 15 drops in 2021. And if you look at Davante Adams catch percenage last year with Derek Carr - it was 55.6% vs. 72.8% with Aaron in 2021 and 77.2% in 2020. This shows how management can kill a team by ripping away its future NFL Hall of Fame Receiver and ripping away the Packers all time greatest quarterback.
The Packers have lost very little from the 2021-22 season - other than receivers, which was simply a consequence of the way Packer management tried to play hard ball with Davante Adams, not because of money or salary cap, as Davante's offer from the Raiders was less than the Packers offer.
The Packers keep Rodgers as the starter and they would likely be in the playoffs each year 2023-24, 2024-2025, 2025-2026 and 2026-2027 until the end of Aaron's 4 year contract at which point he would retire with no cap hit to the Packers.
As good as the current 2023-24 Packer team is, with Jordan Love as Packer starting quarterback - just based on observations to date and facts with regard to Jordan - it is hard to see the Packers making the playoffs more than once over those same 4 years.
Jordan (NFL draft pick #26, 2020) in 2019-2020 his last year in college football at Utah State, led all of college football in interceptions with 17. Led all of college football in interceptions!!! - not only the FBS where you find Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc. but also the smaller school FCS where you find Trey Lance and our Christian Watson.
You do not find any of the top quarterbacks drafted in the NFL on this list of interception leaders.
You find find the top quarterbacks drafted in the NFL normally among the leaders in touchdown passes.
And in Jordan's (pick #26, 2020) last year, 2019-2020, the leader in touchdown passes for all of college football was Joe Burrow (pick #1, 2020) who threw 60 touchdown passes and Justin Fields (pick #11, 2021) who threw 41 touchdown passes and Sam Howell (pick #144, 2022) who threw 38 touchdown passes and Trevor Lawrence (pick #1, 2021) who threw 36 touchdown passes and Tua Tagovailoa (pick #5, 2020) who threw 33 touchdown passes and Jalen Hurts (pick #53, 2020) who threw 32 touchdown passes and Justin Herbert (pick #6, 2020) who threw 32 touchdown passes and Sam Ehlinger (pick 218, 2021) who threw 32 touchdown passes and Trey Lance (pick #3, 2021) who threw 28 touchdown passes.
Jordan threw just 20 touchdown passes vs. Jordan's all of college football leading 17 interceptions. By comparison, Trey Lance threw ZERO interceptions while throwing those 28 touchdown passes.
So I do have a fear from watching Jordan in the exhibition games and the Chief games - where the Chiefs knew a week in advance Jordan was starting and prepared - and past history - and the Lions and Eagles games too that ball protection is going to be a problem. We just were treated to the all time greatest when it comes to ball protection in Aaron. We were spoiled.
Jordan played just 2 full years a starter at Utah State - Jordan's year leading all of College football in interceptions was his last year in college football before the Packers drafted him. Drafted him before Jalen Hurts.
Jordan's college career career at Utah State- include:
a blow out 42 to 6 loss to Joe Burrow and LSU when Jordan threw 3 picks and Joe Burrow 5 TDs,
a loss to Josh Allen and Wyoming when Jordan threw 3 picks,
a loss to 22nd ranked Boise State and Brett Rypien (Super Bowl QB Mark Rypien's nephew) when Jordan was outplayed,
a loss to 11th ranked Michigan State when Jordan threw 2 picks and was out played by future Giants and Patriots undrafted Brian Lewerke
and Jodan's last game in the Frisco Bowl with the pick and loss to Kent State and Dustin Crum - undrafted QB signed by the Chiefs and now in the CFL.
Jordan looks better than his first exhibition games - all of which a group of Packer fans and I watch together - and we all agree that Jordan certainly is better than the disaster of Brett Hundley, 5th round 2015 Packer draft choice, that kept us out of the playoffs when Aaron went down in 2017.
But there is no reason to replace Aaron Rodgers with Jordan Love at this point, never mind trading Rodgers.
If you have a subscription to NFL Plus, watch the Chiefs (2021), Lions (2021) and Eagles (2022) using All 22/Coaches Film and you will see just what I and all my fellow Packer fans that watch with me see.
I think the 2023-2024 team is as good or better than the 13-4 2021-22 team - with the exception of Management's terrible mistake with Davante and now any loss of Aaron Rodgers. Losing Lazard was another mistake, but this Packer 2023-24 team with a good use of the 15th and 45th pick should go 13-4 again with Rodgers.
I think with Love 9-8 is possible, but as I wrote earlier I doubt we will be in the playoffs more than 1 in the next 4 years,
Whereas Rodgers in 2008 was 6th out of 32 starters in passer rating and threw 28 touchdowns and 13 interceptions and for over 4,000 yards in 16 games we shall see what Jordan does in 17 games. Should be much easier for Jordan as QBs are more protected than they were in 2008.
Packers0808
March 31, 2023 at 08:41 am
Attitude and team player go further any day before stats except for HOF!
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 09:26 am
The Packer players have all come out in support of Rodgers. They all speak about how Aaron was always there to help them and stick for them.
https://zonecoverage.com/2023/packers/christian-watson-speaks-out-on-aar...
Christian Watson Speaks Out On Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love
It is just the Church ladies that have issue with Aaron.
And Management boy - Packer management boy also has a problem with Aaron.
Jordan had a great attitude while he led all of college football in interceptions. But attitude might not be enough if that continues.
jont
March 31, 2023 at 03:57 pm
Thanks, StarrtoRodgers, I hadn't seen the Watson comments, and it's great to get facts straight from the player involved.
coolhand
March 31, 2023 at 09:32 am
The last 4 seasons the Packers were 13-3, 13-3, and 13-4 and 3-1 when Aaron broke this thumb last year.
And how did he look in those three wins? So we beat da bears, then barely beat Tampa, and barely beat the Pats with a 3rd string qb. And how was he doing against the Giants? That was one real disaster of a second half and tried a last ditch hail mary at the end when he broke his thumb. He should have sat out after that and let the thumb heal. Then there was the pathetic performance against the Jets, and then the Lions.
To me, after watching AR for his entire career, he looked lazy and disinterested even after getting that obscene contract.
mnbadger
March 31, 2023 at 12:56 pm
totally agree coolhand. Disinterested was a new thing after the contract. Lazy started during the last years of big Mike.
Never talks to coaches or teammates on the sidelines - totally disinterested in finding ways to make the offense better during the game.
Sad. I'll bet he's a very lonely individual.
I thank him for the excitement he brought us over the years but wish him the best in the future, whether with the jets, retirement, any other team or if necessary the bench.
I'm ready to move on.
GPG
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 01:20 pm
After the Giants came Aaron had the 8th best passer rating - of 32 starting QBs - and if that passer rating was adjusted by just 1 play - the Watson drop in game 1 - Rodgers passer rating would have been 4th in the NFL.
The Packers dropped 41 passes this past year - Doubs the most with 9 on 67 targets.
The Packers dropped 15 passes in 2021-22 - Adams the most with 3 on 167 targets.
golfpacker1
March 31, 2023 at 09:25 am
What did the Green Bay Packers achieve? Did they win Super Bowls? That is the objective for the TEAM. I am sure the Packers don't start every season with the #1 goal being our QB has to lead the league in stats. Stats are great but Rodgers has failed to complete the goal but once and in the NFL you are judged by Super Bowls won, especially QBs.
The contract last year never should have happened because it was a ticking time bomb. FO gave in to the foot stomping player and now they are paying the price. The sh$t hit the fan sooner than they anticipated but it was just a matter of time for Rodgers to hold the Packers hostage again.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 09:41 am
Hey Golfpacker, how many NFC quarterbacks have led their teams to more Super Bowl wins than Aaron during his 15 years as a Packer starter?
ZERO.
And there have been over 200 quarterbacks over those 15 years on NFC rosters. They all had the chance and none succeeded.
And to even have a chance to win a Super Bowl, you have to get into the playoffs.
How many NFC quarterbacks among those 200+ during Aaron's time as a starter led their teams to more years in the playoffs than Rodgers 11?
ZERO.
And I watched the Packers miss the playoffs for 21 of 23 years from 1968 to 1991.
Where were you then?
Were you COMPLAINING then too or not yet born?
The Rodgers 5 yr contract (4 remaining years) is no "ticking time bomb".
Rodgers' - passer rating champ & MVP 2 of the last 3 years - cap hit if he plays for the Packers is $31.6 in 2023 and $40.6 in 2024 - reasonable relative to any star QB. For 2023 the cap hits for other QBs are Mahomes is 39.6., Tannehill 36.6, Jackson 32.4, Goff 30.9 etc. - The Giants w Daniel Jones, with 36 more starts than Jordan Love, did not exercise their 5th yr option on Jones but did just sign Jones to a $160 M 4 yr contract with $80 dead cap/guaranteed $.
The Packers currently have $22.8 M in cap space (1st 51 players, $13.7 M counting all players) and the Jets currently have less than half that much cap space with $9.8 (1st 51 players, $1.3 M counting all players.
Next year the dead cap of $16.9 M for such void year hits for players as Amos, Lowry, Reed (who should have been extended & resigned) Tonyan (who should have been extended & resigned), Cobb (who should have been resigned & extended), Lewis (who should have been resigned & extended) and others will be gone and the current $224.8 M salary cap will increase as it usually does by about 10% of $22.5 M - that alone will provide the Packers with about $40 M + the current $22.8 M for a total of $62.8 M in Cap space for 2024 to deal with Aaron's $9 M cap hit increase and other veteran extensions or 2nd contracts for rookies coming off their first 4 or 5 years (1st rounders if 5th yr option was exercised in lieu of new contract), should Aaron not renegotiate his $47 M option payment for 2024 or other players not convert their salaries to signing bonuses or simply take salary cuts like many do - Aaron Jones this year, Randall Cobb last year, etc..
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 09:57 am
This is bizarre logic. Neither Rodgers nor the Packers are moving backwards through time. You may as well argue that we resurrect Starr or reactivate Favre. Rodgers past is as as unreachable as theirs. It’s the now and near future that matters. Right now Mahommes is the king. Rodgers wasn’t even the best QB in a deprived NFC last year by any rating service. He wasn’t close. That’s your present, or as near as one can get to it.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 12:44 pm
Rodgers was Passer Rating leader and MVP 2 out of the last 3 yeas not Mahomes.
And if not for the broken thumb in game 5 he would have been there again despite Mahomes - Rodgers receiver - having to depend on MVS to squeak by the Bengals. and despite the loss of a Hall of Fame bound receiver Davante due to Packer Management ego driven hardball.
The "deprived" NFC came within seconds of beating the AFC's best team - with questionable calls in the Chiefs favor.
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 03:53 pm
History, always history, or a version of it. The one place we can’t live is the past. It has gone. It is over. We lost even then anyway. The song remains the same for you. Our Miss Haversham reborn.
greengold
March 31, 2023 at 06:56 pm
I was not about to invoke the ghost of Miss Haversham. Not even close, but, there it is… juicily pointed.
Jilted AF.
croatpackfan
March 31, 2023 at 10:03 am
"Hey Golfpacker, how many NFC quarterbacks have led their teams to more Super Bowl wins than Aaron during his 15 years as a Packer starter?
ZERO."
Khm, khm. Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes. Eli Manning. Payton Manning.
"How many NFC quarterbacks among those 200+ during Aaron's time as a starter led their teams to more years in the playoffs than Rodgers 11?
ZERO."
Khm, khm. Tom Brady. 15 times...
And one question for you!
HOW MANY SB APPEARANCE HAVE ACR DURING HIS 15 SEASONS AS STARTER?
ZERO. Except when he won the only!
Like Tom Brady, Payton Manning, Eli Manning, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Russel Wilson, Ben Roethlisberger, Patrick Mahomes, and I might forget one... Those QBs were in at least 2 SB and some in more than 2!
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 01:09 pm
Apparently you don't read .
I asked what NFC team and QB during Rodgers 15 years a starter won more Super Bowls than the Packers and Rodgers.
The answer is STILL NONE.
Eli led the Giants to one Superbowl victory during Rodgers 15 years a starter - not more than Rodgers.
Wilson won 1 super bowl, not more than Rodgers.
Peyton Manning did not play in the NFC and during Rodgers 15 years as a starter Peyton led the Broncos to 1 super bowl win - not more than Rodgers. And Manning that year had the 4th best defense in the NFL that year and the Broncos won despite Manning.
Rothlisberger is the AFC, not NFC and he too won "only" 1 superbowl during Rodgers 15 year as a starter and the Packers and Rodgers defeated the Steeler and Rothlesbger in that Super Bow..
The fact is that the trade of Rodgers is ignorant and emotion based as is the replacement of Rodgers with a QB that led all of college football - big and small - in his final year in college in interceptions while Rodgers was coming off 2 year in a row of just 2 and 4 interceptions - lowest interception %s in the league - and a 13-3 season and loss in the NFC Conference Championship where he threw for over 320 yards and 2 touchdowns but the Packer lost because they allowed 220 yards rushing to Mostert and nearly 300 yards rushing to the 49ers as team.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 12:17 pm
This isnt the own you think it is. Rodgers has failed to get back to a superbowl despite NOT playing in the same conference as Brady, Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, or Mahomes. Instead, hes gotten outplayed by the likes of Colin Kaepernick (twice), Eli Manning, Jimmy G (twice, and old balls Brady despite the defense picking him off 3 times. Rodgers has played in a mostly soft conference his entire career and hasnt made a super bowl in 13 years. Has it all been his fault? No. But you cant point to a single playoff loss where he absolutely balled out and the defense just pissed it away. Id probly give him a pass for 2015 but thats it. He sucked in all the same games the defense sucked. 178 yds 1 td and 2 ints vs Seahawks in 2014, shutout in the first half of both the 2016 and 2019 NFC Championship Games, complete no-show im the 4th qtr vs the Bucs in 2020, no-show in the entire 2nd half vs 49ers last year. Hell even in 2009 he threw a pick to start the game, missed a wide open greg jennings on what wouldve been a walk in game winning td, then fumbled the game away the very next play. He has contributed to every playoff loss they've had sanz 2015. Facts dont care about your hurty butt.
greengold
March 31, 2023 at 12:30 pm
Salami... salami... BALONEY, comin' in HOT!!!!
Well said.
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 03:56 pm
Ouch. Scorched earth impressively there
greengold
March 31, 2023 at 04:05 pm
That BALONEY's lookin' pretty good today.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 04:56 pm
You still have not answered my questions.
During Rodgers 15 year NFC career, which NFC QB led his team to more super bowl wins than Aaron Rodgers 1.
During those 15 years, which NFC QB led his team to more years in the playoffs 11.
During those 15 years, which NFC QB led his team to more NFC championship games, 5.
During those 15 years, which NFC QB led his team to more playoff game appearances, 21.
Brady played with a higher ranked defense 14 of those 15 years and top 10 ranked defense 12 of those 15 years - Aaron top 10 ranked defense only 3 times.
Brady played in the worst division in football for a good part of his career - Jets, Dolphins, Bills were all terrible
As for the January 24, 2021 Tampa Bay game, once again the defense came to Brady's aid as Bucs caused Aaron Jones to fumble and given Brady the ball at the Green Bay 8 yard line . Brady threw 3 interceptions on the 3 consecutive possessions in the 3rd quarter - in Bucs territory - and was thoroughly outplayed by Rodgers who led 90, 69, 75 and 68 yard scoring drives - - 33 of 48 for 346 yards, 3 touchdowns and 1 interception to Brady's 20 of 36, for 280 yards 3 Tds and 3 interceptions. scoring on short fied 8 and 51 yards and the fluke last half mental coaching lapse by the Packers.
The Coaching miscue with 8 seconds left in the half - not playing a prevent defense and leaving Kevin King alone on an island also contributed to the loss - again Brady had the 8th ranked defense behind and Rodgers the 13th.
Packers Management should have signed Kaeppernick in 2017 when Aaron went down and the Packers would have made the playoffs then too - i instead they went along with the colluding 31 Billionaires.
Rodgers can't play special teams and defense - it is much easier to win when the defense doesn't put you behind and the defense and special teams gets you decent field position.
You can look at all those games and see that the defense and special teams did Green Bay and Rodgers no favor Not true for Brady.
If the emotion based ignorant trade goes through let's see if Jordan matches Aaron's 2008 performance in 2023 while Rodgers leads the Jets to the playoffs each of the remaining 4 yeas of his contract. I hope so, I hope that they both lead their teams to the Super Bowl and the Packers win.
4thand10
March 31, 2023 at 08:52 pm
Jordan will beat Rodgers first performance of a 6-10 season. Book it
MainePackFan
March 31, 2023 at 02:19 pm
You make a lot of good points Starr. The majority of commenters in here do not like Rodgers. They object to the word "hater" so we'll go with vehemently dislike.
Defending Rodgers in here makes you a sycophant in the eyes of some- as if you can't make a case for him and still accept his faults. The same people that will call you a sycophant and an idolizer lack the self awareness to reflect on their own sycophantic point of view.
The fact that Aaron Rodgers is a HOF QB is not up for debate. Even the "vehemently dislikers" will not disagree with that fact. However, your stats mean nothing to them.
They are of the opinion that Rodgers the man does not live up to Rodgers the HOF QB. Frankly, much of that can be attributed to AR himself. Though I appreciate his "newfound" openness, it does not come without repercussions. Strong opinions will breed strong disagreement in every facet of life.
This "divorce" started when the Packers started "seeing other people" in the 2020 draft :) It happens, that's life in the NFL . It was for Brett Favre, and it may be someday for Jordan Love. We should hope that's the case. because that would mean Jordan is a future HOF QB.
That said, it's time to move on. The FO has made their decision. I accept and trust that decision. I will root for Jordan Love the same as I did for Aaron Rodgers when he replaced Favre.
I will say one last thing. I see no reason for anymore Rodgers bashing articles. What's the point? We all know how everyone in here stands. Can we all just accept that Aaron Rodgers has been a fantastic QB for the Packers but the time has come to move on.
To CHTV. Please stop inviting people to defend what other people find indefensible. It's divisive and unnecessary. This is a great site and we would all keep coming here without the clickbait. Report the facts and let sleeping dogs lie.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 04:40 pm
"I will say one last thing. I see no reason for anymore Rodgers bashing articles. What's the point? We all know how everyone in here stands. Can we all just accept that Aaron Rodgers has been a fantastic QB for the Packers but the time has come to move on.
To CHTV. Please stop inviting people to defend what other people find indefensible. It's divisive and unnecessary. This is a great site and we would all keep coming here without the clickbait. Report the facts and let sleeping dogs lie."
Mail this to the mods.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 04:36 pm
Lots of words to say that Rodgers has had some very good years - BUT HE CANNOT WIN THE BIG GAMES. I personally don't give a shit how many MVPs a player has because they mean nothing to the TEAM. Passer rating? Great, if the team wins a championship or at the very least doesn't break out hearts every effing year for nearly half a decade.
"The Packers keep Rodgers as the starter and they would likely be in the playoffs"
This conjecture is absolute bullshit - how in hell could the Packers field a competitive team with Rodgers' contract?
Rodgers is a great passer, with (when younger) fantastic accuracy. He can probably thank Clements for some of this. He has not been a LEADER for a very long time now.
Nice cherry-picking of Love's stats - you conveniently forget his previous season. You also don't mention the positive effect Clements has already HAD on Love's play, as evidenced by Love's play against the Eagles. If you don't want to watch Jordan Love quarterback the Packers, then I suggest you find something else to do on Sundays this fall.
"But there is no reason to replace Aaron Rodgers with Jordan Love at this point, never mind trading Rodgers."
Hellllooooo! Big fucking contract in the room! Sheesh, you fanboys are exhausting. Have fun as a Jets fan.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 05:21 pm
Clements was brought back at Rodgers recommendation. - as Rodgers is the most intelligent football mind in the room.
Wake up and do a little math.
The Rodgers 5 yr contract (4 remaining years) is no "ticking time bomb".
Rodgers' - passer rating champ & MVP 2 of the last 3 years - cap hit if he plays for the Packers is $31.6 in 2023 and $40.6 in 2024 - reasonable relative to any star QB. For 2023 the cap hits for other QBs are Mahomes is 39.6., Tannehill 36.6, Jackson 32.4, Goff 30.9 etc. - The Giants w Daniel Jones, with 36 more starts than Jordan Love, did not exercise their 5th yr option on Jones but did just sign Jones to a $160 M 4 yr contract with $80 dead cap/guaranteed $.
The Packers currently have $22.8 M in cap space (1st 51 players, $13.7 M counting all players) and the Jets currently have less than half that much cap space with $9.8 (1st 51 players, $1.3 M counting all players.
Next year the dead cap of $16.9 M for such void year hits for players as Amos, Lowry, Reed (who should have been extended & resigned) Tonyan (who should have been extended & resigned), Cobb (who should have been resigned & extended), Lewis (who should have been resigned & extended) and others will be gone and the current $224.8 M salary cap will increase as it usually does by about 10% of $22.5 M - that alone will provide the Packers with about $40 M + the current $22.8 M for a total of $62.8 M in Cap space for 2024 to deal with Aaron's $9 M cap hit increase and other veteran extensions or 2nd contracts for rookies coming off their first 4 or 5 years (1st rounders if 5th yr option was exercised in lieu of new contract), should Aaron not renegotiate his $47 M option payment for 2024 or other players not convert their salaries to signing bonuses or simply take salary cuts like many do - Aaron Jones this year, Randall Cobb last year, etc..
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 11:32 am
None of that will happen. The "backlash" will be you and a few other Rodgers Forever loyalists lashing out on the interwebs. The rest of us will continue enjoying Green Bay Packer football.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 01:14 pm
After the Packers miss the playoffs 3 years in a row, the spoiled "only" won 1 Super Bowl crowd will have long departed while those of us who watched each week though 23 year in which the Packers only made the playoffs 2 years will still be here.
Meanwhile, the Jets will be in the playoffs for the remaining 4 years of Aaron's contract and the Jets fans will be happier than they have ever been, even if the Jets do not win a single Super Bowl.
dekan51
March 31, 2023 at 02:20 pm
were you happy the GBP let BF go in order to start AR? if so, then be happy the Pack are letting AR go in order to start JL. if not, you were wrong then, and you'll be wrong now....
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 02:46 pm
Favre had turned into an interception machine after Holmgren was not there to restrain him. Rodgers played in and won big games against #1 USC and other teams and then in college - as now - was the polar opposite to Favre when it came to valuing and protecting the football. Jordan - nice kid as he is - was all of College Footballs interception leader and he has shown the same tendency in the Kansas City and Detroit games where he was blitzed and pressured. The Philly game Philly was in a prevent defense and showed no pressure and Love's passes - with the 1 sideline incompletion to Aaron Jones (drop by Jones from my perspective) - were all short - 50+ yards after the catch by Watson. Another throw to Lazard was behind Lazard. Rodgers of 2023 is not Favre of 2008. And Love of 2023 is not Rodgers of 2008. That is all clear.
That said, I thought that Packers management should been straight with Favre in March of 2008, just as the Packers management should have been straight with Rodgers from January 8th though March 8th - the 8 short weeks that Rodgers was allowed to rellax. I listened to all of the press conferences of Brian on January 17th and at the NFL combine in late February and at the Owners meeting and Aaron on January 8 after the Lions game and on Pat McAfee. Listened to all of them. Clearly the equivocation in on Brian's side. Aaron is straight and to the points and answers questions specifically and directly.
Back in 2008, I wanted Aaron Rodgers to be given a chance to compete for the starting position with Favre. I thought that was the appropriate way to handle it.
And I think that it is the appropriate to handle it now as well.
The Packers can afford both players.
Study the cap. I have
And the Jets stole Favre back in 2008 as well - the trade compensation was embarrassing, as it is now for Rodgers.
But then as now, the 31 colluding Billionaire NFL owners - who share television revenue equally - knew that the trade was going to generate enormous interest in the world's largest television market, so that trade was pushed through .
LeotisHarris
March 31, 2023 at 03:40 pm
"...knew that the trade was going to generate enormous interest in the world's largest television market, so that trade was pushed through."
The largest television market in the Unites States. Unless Rodgers is being traded to China or India?
barutanseijin
March 31, 2023 at 05:11 pm
As if you were the only person here who went through all that. You aren’t.
On top of that, having experienced the Packers’ lost decades doesn’t make Rodgers look better. The Big Rodgers Contract was the kind of mistake that the 1970s team made.
Oppy
March 31, 2023 at 12:55 pm
Some people are incapable of learning lessons from history.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 04:41 pm
If you pay attention to history then life is too easy. It's more fun to metaphorically walk into the same walls that people have walked into before you. /sarc
ricky
March 31, 2023 at 07:04 am
There are several other possibilities. First, is that Gutekunst knows he made a mistake not trading Rodgers to Denver for (probably) multiple picks and players. If he doesn't at least get a first for Rodgers, the fan base will be outraged. This is very unlikely, though. He's going to be 40 years old, and is openly planning to retire soon, and carries a big cap hit. If the Packers could get a guaranteed second, and a conditional third or fourth that could be upgraded, depending on performance, that would be more reasonable. (I can already hear all the "down votes" being chosen with that statement).
Second, if Rodgers is traded, the Packers will immediately be facing a $40.3 million dead cap hit. If he is traded post June 1, which would obviously be after the draft, the Packers could split that hit over two years. This year, it would be $15.8 million. An additional $24.5 million would be added next season. So, if the Jets wanted to make such a trade, they could draft players of need for the Packers, and include them in a Rodgers trade. There could also be conditional draft picks, or a conditional draft pick involved.
There is a precedent for this situation. That is, the Packers trading Favre to the Jets. Here are the details of that transaction:
The New York Jets acquire Brett Favre. The Packers get a fourth round pick if Brett plays under 50 percent of the snaps in 2008.
If Favre plays over 50 percent of the snaps it becomes a third round pick. If Favre plays 70 percent of the snaps and makes the playoffs it becomes a second round pick. If the Favre plays 80 percent of the snaps and the Jets make the Super Bowl it becomes a first round pick.
However, there is one more clause. If Favre is traded to the Vikings, the Jets owe the Packers three first round picks
I expect something similar to occur in this situation.
NickPerry
March 31, 2023 at 07:16 am
"There are several other possibilities. First, is that Gutekunst knows he made a mistake not trading Rodgers to Denver for (probably) multiple picks and players. If he doesn't at least get a first for Rodgers, the fan base will be outraged."
I'm ALREADY pissed off Ricky but it's NOT at Gutekunst...It's at Mark Murphy. I have no doubt it was Mark "We're not Idiots" Murphy who ultimately made the call keep Rodgers, give him a ridiculous contract, and now instructed Gute to trade Rodgers.
You have to remember Murphy wanted to become the Jerry Jones of the Packers once Ted Thompson was gone. I think Gutekunst SHOWED the direction he wanted to take the team when he drafted Love and Dillon. IMO this was all Mark Murphy.
Until Murphy is gone and the GM is given the same power Wolf and Thompson had, I'll be concerned what Murphy might do or say next.
stockholder
March 31, 2023 at 07:22 am
Put the blame where it belongs NP.
Gutey drafted Love!
NickPerry
March 31, 2023 at 07:36 am
Yes he did, and I agree they probably should have used it in a weapon for Rodgers. But Gutekunst was operating on what he saw out of Rodgers during the previous two or three seasons and you have to agree, Rodgers DIDN'T look like Rodgers anymore.
Yes, Gute drafted Rodgers but like TT he saw what he thought was a declining superstar QB and drafted for the future on a guy he really liked.
Let me also say you have NO IDEA if Love sucks. Just like I have NO IDEA if Love will be great or even good. But you have to LET IT PLAY OUT. This time was coming no matter what.
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 09:07 am
Well said NP. There are so many questions to be asked about how we got to this point, but there is no way we wouldn’t have different QB drafted by now had we not taken Love.
It’s at least as plausible that the biggest reason for the failures is the coaching. It’s certainly an open question as to who thought Rodgers plus that roster last year made any sense or was ever likely to have a dramatically different outcome or that our cap position would be any better this coming season?
So many questions and many not really attributable to Gute. There’s been so much argument over whether Rodgers had been an obstacle to LaFleur or overly influential. Well, now we and he get to find out. Love isn’t even the most telling question this year in my mind.
stockholder
March 31, 2023 at 10:01 am
Gutey is to blame.
Understand this: Robin Yount.
Robin retired a Brewer.
Al Kaline retired a Tiger. Etc.
Both Legends in a game that their
clubs kept forever immortalized.
WHY IS THAT?
Because they understood greatness.
Something a classy organization
does to say, " Thank You".
Using them up isn't appreciation.
Using them for ones own Gaines;
was Gute's motive.
Why can't others see the difference;
instead of Hate, is beyond me.
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 10:20 am
If Gute had the power you see in him, we might all be better off. Even if that wasn’t true, we’d at least know who called the shots. Murphy is the boss, Murphy stripped the GM job and became TT, writing that any CEO would want the final decisions as he carried the final responsibility on the Packers own website.
Gute picked Love, do you really think Murphy wasn’t on board with that because, unlike LaFleur, he didn’t dance a jig on camera at the pick? Do you really think any rational team management would not have picked a serious QB to develop behind Rodgers by now even if they hadn’t that year? Rodgers floated the retirement option originally. No sane leadership ignores that.
Love being picked is just an excuse for you not to face up to the end of Rodgers inevitably approaching. Just as you admit that TTs pick of Rodgers was from 2005 to 2009 for you. The thing is, you repeat so loud and often and some will remember. Your problem is change and emotional attachment, Gute is the personified excuse you demonize as a means to avoid facing that.
I know you won’t answer logically, or truly consider, but maybe somewhere in there something sticks in your id and helps you get past this, for your sake particularly, but also for ours. The scale of threats and venom isn’t healthy.
NickPerry
March 31, 2023 at 11:05 am
"Gute picked Love, do you really think Murphy wasn’t on board with that because, unlike LaFleur, he didn’t dance a jig on camera at the pick? Do you really think any rational team management would not have picked a serious QB to develop behind Rodgers by now even if they hadn’t that year? Rodgers floated the retirement option originally. No sane leadership ignores that."
AWESOME!!! Just awesome!
golfpacker1
April 01, 2023 at 10:41 am
How long ago was that? Very rarely do players play their whole career with the same team anymore. Salary caps work in the NFL. Al Kaline? Really?
greengold
March 31, 2023 at 10:26 am
2018 & 2019 were back to back the worst QBR #s ever in Rodgers' career, trending downward from 58.0 to 52.6, the last with a #9 ranked Defense giving him more opportunities.
It was without question the right time to take our QB of the future to begin a new era under a new offensive minded HC. A perfect fit for his system too, in Jordan Love. Strongest arm in that 2020 QB draft class.
stockholder
March 31, 2023 at 10:36 am
Blame the roster first!
Amos, The Smiths and Turner changed it.
The Defensive Coordinators changed.
Rodgers still wanted Jordy Nelson.
Rodgers wasn't wrong.
He was forced to throw to Adams.
And don't forget James Jones came back.
Showing the lack of weapons.
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 04:02 pm
Jones came back in 2015. So?
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:01 pm
Dude, if you could see all of us just pitying you at this point...
BirdDogUni
March 31, 2023 at 10:02 pm
I don't pity him, I pity his family and friends if he has any.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 07:52 am
There is no blame to assign here - in fact, that was a gutsy praise-worthy move as Gutekunst was building for a Rodgers-less future that, based on AR's play the previous two season, looked to be coming fairly soon.
Without Love ready to go right now, we'd be hamstrung with Rodgers and a roster full of both an aging core AND a bunch of draft picks and UDFAs, with either our best players cut or traded to squeeze AR's huge contract under the cap OR with a future so badly mortgaged we'd soon become the Lions of the NFC for the rest of the decade. Top that off with a Rodgers retirement in 2025, at which point we'd become the Cleveland Browns, searching the wasteland of retreads for a David Whitehurst-level starting quarterback and staring into the abyss of futility because Rodgers wouldn't allow Gutekunst to draft another possible starting QB.
Gutekunst rightly got a contract extension. Don't like it? Follow your hero to New York.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 08:45 am
"Based on AR's play the previous 2 seasons"
What are you talking about?
Take a reality pill.
Rodgers led the league with the lowest interception percentage in both of those previous seasons 2019 and 2018 - just 2 interceptions in 2018 and 4 in 2019.
In fact from 2018 through 2021 - 4 complete seasons - Aaron threw a total of just 15 interceptions.
So Brian drafts the QB - Jordan (NFL draft pick #26, 2020) that in 2019-2020 his last year in college football at Utah State, led all of college football in interceptions with 17. Led all of college football in interceptions!!! - not only the FBS where you find Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc. but also the smaller school FCS where you find Trey Lance and our Christian Watson.
You do not find any of the top quarterbacks drafted in the NFL on this list of interception leaders.
You find find the top quarterbacks drafted in the NFL normally among the leaders in touchdown passes.
And in Jordan's (pick #26, 2020) last year, 2019-2020, the leader in touchdown passes for all of college football was Joe Burrow (pick #1, 2020) who threw 60 touchdown passes and Justin Fields (pick #11, 2021) who threw 41 touchdown passes and Sam Howell (pick #144, 2022) who threw 38 touchdown passes and Trevor Lawrence (pick #1, 2021) who threw 36 touchdown passes and Tua Tagovailoa (pick #5, 2020) who threw 33 touchdown passes and Jalen Hurts (pick #53, 2020) who threw 32 touchdown passes and Justin Herbert (pick #6, 2020) who threw 32 touchdown passes and Sam Ehlinger (pick 218, 2021) who threw 32 touchdown passes and Trey Lance (pick #3, 2021) who threw 28 touchdown passes.
Jordan threw just 20 touchdown passes vs. Jordan's all of college football leading 17 interceptions. By comparison, Trey Lance threw ZERO interceptions while throwing those 28 touchdown passes.
So I do have a fear from watching Jordan in the exhibition games and the Chief games - where the Chiefs knew a week in advance Jordan was starting and prepared - and past history - and the Lions and Eagles games too that ball protection is going to be a problem. We just were treated to the all time greatest when it comes to ball protection in Aaron. We were spoiled.
Jordan played just 2 full years a starter at Utah State - Jordan's year leading all of College football in interceptions was his last year in college football before the Packers drafted him. Drafted him before Jalen Hurts.
Jordan's college career career at Utah State- include:
a blow out 42 to 6 loss to Joe Burrow and LSU when Jordan threw 3 picks and Joe Burrow 5 TDs,
a loss to Josh Allen and Wyoming when Jordan threw 3 picks,
a loss to 22nd ranked Boise State and Brett Rypien (Super Bowl QB Mark Rypien's nephew) when Jordan was outplayed,
a loss to 11th ranked Michigan State when Jordan threw 2 picks and was out played by future Giants and Patriots undrafted Brian Lewerke
and Jodan's last game in the Frisco Bowl with the pick and loss to Kent State and Dustin Crum - undrafted QB signed by the Chiefs and now in the CFL.
Jordan looks better than his first exhibition games - all of which a group of Packer fans and I watch together - and we all agree that Jordan certainly is better than the disaster of Brett Hundley, 5th round 2015 Packer draft choice, that kept us out of the playoffs when Aaron went down in 2017.
But there is no reason to replace Aaron Rodgers with Jordan Love at this point, never mind trading Rodgers.
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 10:34 am
Did you actually watch Rodgers play from the point he was drafted to at least the 2007 Dallas game? Are you even aware if the changes in his technique, in his ability to read? Do you even acknowledge how much progression Rodgers made? If you don’t, then he has, often over his career, most recently last year when praising Clements. Yet you spend paragraphs writing off Love to defend a guy who probably has his career to thank for exactly what you deny is possible and a forgone conclusion for Love.
Ridiculous.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:03 pm
He's not even original - he just copies and pastes the same word salad across the thread.
Leatherhead
March 31, 2023 at 05:59 pm
The 10 points in the playoff loss, at home, was historically bad, and when your franchise goes back 100 years and includes 65 games…..
He then returned for the 2022 season and had his worst season, which concluded by a very weak performance, at home, in a must win game against the worst defense in the league.
THAT is the relevant history at this point. The rest is Word Salad.
greengold
March 31, 2023 at 09:35 am
Gutekunst did the right thing in 2020 taking Jordan Love, trading just a R4 to go up and get him, the strongest arm in his draft class.
Your boy was laying eggs all over the fucking place.
In 2019, the season prior to drafting Love, Rodgers' QBR dropped to his lowest rate ever, 52.5, just a tick below his previous low, set the year before in 2018, of 58.0.
Cut the crap. Two years in a row the Packers didn't even reach the playoffs. 2018. 2019. The result was the Packers took their next Franchise QB1.
RCPackerFan
March 31, 2023 at 10:00 am
If Love turns out to be the next Rodgers (Favre to Rodgers transition), and plays very well this was a homerun pick.
If Love is average at best and is Mitch Trubisky, or Drew Lock, then it was a horrible pick. Since the pick it created turmoil and forced their Hall of Fame QB to be pissed off at the organization and add a lot more stress.
greengold
March 31, 2023 at 10:12 am
Of course, but, the fact remains there was a 2 years consecutive decline in AR’s effectiveness as a QB warranting the selection of Jordan Love.
Significant decline, the worst numbers in his career. And, he had the #9 ranked defense providing him plenty of opportunities in 2019.
RCPackerFan
March 31, 2023 at 11:27 am
The fact that they used a 4th round pick to move up to get Love, when they possibly could have stayed where they were, or possibly could have taken Hurts instead, means that this all rides on how good Love is. If Love is good, then none of that matters. But if he isn't good it was a failure of a pick. The 4th round pick who cares. The player that was picked with the pick they gave up was Bryce Hopkins TE to the Rams.
2019 wasn't as bad as you are saying it was. He threw for 4002 yards 25 TD's and 4 Int's. He had a rating of 95.4. But take into account that he had this receiving crew that year. Adams, MVS, Allison, Kumerow, Lazard, Shepherd, Davis.
His top WR was Adams. He had 83 receptions for 997 yards in 12 games. His next leading WR was Aaron Jones who aught 49 catches for 474 yards. His next best target was Jamaal Williams who had 39 catches for 253 yards. One less catch then Williams was Jimmy Graham with 38 catches for 447 yards. His next leading WR was Lazard with 35 catches for 477 yards, followed by Allison with 34 catches 287 yards. And finally MVS had 26 catches for 452 yards.
The receiving options he had were not great. When your 2nd, 3rd and 4th leading receivers aren't actual receivers, there is a problem.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 31, 2023 at 01:07 pm
THIS.
AR was still ranked in the top 10 players in the NFL in 2018 and 2019. His receivers in 2019 were Adams (obviously very good but one guy can get taken away by a good defense), Lazard who had played exactly one snap in the NFL prior to that year, a 5th round rookie in MVS, a nobody named Geronimo Allison who has only managed to play 47 snaps since 2019, and an over the hill Jimmy Graham who probably was average minus. He did have some young RBs in Aaron Jones and Jamaal Williams. He had a pretty good OL and managed to elevate this group to 15th in points scored. No wonder he was ranked in the top 10.
Love was a bad pick. He was a project. GB was never going to get more than one cheap season out of him as a starter. GB had one foot in the present win now and one foot in the future and never figured that out.
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 05:40 pm
Love was insurance. They rated him as a prospect, he came within reach. I’m sure that they knew that they’d have to get a true QB soon. Rodgers was coming off 2 down years and had questions over his durability and had started to muse openly about life and future. They possibly felt that they could not wait as a result.
I suspect that they viewed Love as on a faster development track before CVID and the very odd decision not to have him even throw in the scout team after the lack of a true preseason. Then Ridgers hit an MVP and held their feet to the fire.
Looking back, 2020 was a high point for roster, offense and seeininh coherence of picks and usage. Since then the apparent conflicts have become more obvious and the offense ever less impressive and the cap ever more oppressive, resulting in youth and hood not like replenishment. Even before that extension last year everything pointed to a plan to move in and coffers and contracts support that. Love starting last year would have fit nicely with that. He may not have been great but the team would be healthily set otherwise.
Then, suddenly we threw the kitchen sink if not just money but leverage at Rodgers despite the cap and roster. The result was predicted by a number of us, both on field and off. We passed up a golden opportunity to pick up picks and get healthy for a season of pointlessly negative, ineffectual offense, more weird coaching and personnel usage and excuses apparently for an outcome that most independents saw as likely.
At some point Murphy oversaw a catastrophic mistake—one we can now only partially undo—that we are a year later hoping and praying will at least be mitigated via trade. Absent that, the Love pick made a great deal of sense (though I swore loud and kanf king when it was made). If Love proves good, no one will worry about how many cheap years. If Love wasn’t picked it would be A. N. Other and maybe no Watson or some other pick.
Love was insurance, but insurance someone or some people bottled out of using when the time came and took a ridiculously unrealistic direction that they now already clearly regret. Hubris or cowardice or both: certainly incompetence. My personal guess is it wasn’t Gute’s wish, since his actions consistently pointed in a different direction. However, thanks to Murphy, they’re no way to be certain. Murphy therefore needs to pay the price—something he used as justification—that he would be the one judged by the outcome of what the franchise did after he took control and gutted the GM role.
Love may be a good, bad, or mediocre QB. That none of us know as yet. He was not however a bad pick as you claim. He was a pick that had to be made. His pick was an opportunity cost that could have fallen in another year, but it was going to fall. The bad in this is how the subsequent years were handled and, in particular the handling of Rodgers. Murphy has a lot to answer for over both Favre at the beginning, his failed self promotion and his subsequent handling of Rodgers.
There lies the villain, direct, vicarious or both. Let’s stop with the pretense all was rosy it that Rodgers wasn’t openly discussed as being in decline and let’s stall excusing last year. There is no excuse for that. This franchise wasted Rodgers, facilitated his worst tendencies and finally mortgaged itself for a year of predictable futility and lingering future payment for that.
barutanseijin
March 31, 2023 at 05:33 pm
The Hall of Fame QB wasn’t going to play forever. When are you allowed to pick a QB?
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 10:12 am
The Packers didn't make the playoffs in 2019?
I guess you need the reality pill too - - another Management Plant, management boy II.
Either that or you are ever younger than I thought and just started following the Packers in 2020.
The Packers were not only in the playoffs in 2019 - they were 13-3 in 2019 and went to the NFC championship game and Aaron threw 2 touchdowns and for 326 yards, , but Aaron doesn't play defense and couldn't stop Mostert from running for 220 yards and the 49ers 285 yards.
Rodgers also had the lowest interception percentage in the league in 2018 and 2019
So what does Brian do?
Trades the Packers 30th pick and the 136th pick for all of College football - large and small school - interception leader for the 2019-20 season.
And Brian - young and trying to make his mark and follow in the footsteps of his mentors Wolf and Thompson with the Favre trad and Rodgers pick - doesn't even both to talk to Rodgers and get his point of view.
Crappy management and communication skills, but Brian is still in his job because Rodgers has excelled despite any poor drafting.
As for the QBR rating - no one knows how it is calculated - including you - and no one gives it any credibility. It is meaningless.
Nonetheless Rodgers also led the NFL in QBR 2 out of the last 3 season.
greengold
March 31, 2023 at 10:31 am
I worked very hard to forget that our Packers did not show up in 2019, along with Aaron Rodgers, who 3 & outted our dreams into oblivion.
Excuse the F outta me.
You wanna hang your hat on AR gaming the system, throwing only to veteran WRs wide open to pad his stats, go right ahead... or, I mean, you can knock that off, please. FFS.
During that entire stretch, GB had at the very least 2 powerhouse RBs, and they somehow failed to get the touches. Hmmm... I wonder why???
Maybe somebody out of spite declared his #1 goal each of those years was to win the MVP?
No?
LOL. What a joke.
LLCHESTY
March 31, 2023 at 05:34 pm
You pay attention to QBR? 🤣
dekan51
March 31, 2023 at 02:23 pm
did you say the same thing when the Pack drafted AR? i think you'll change your mind in a couple years, as everyone did in AR's 2nd year...
jannesbjornson
March 31, 2023 at 08:22 am
If he would have started Love last season, he would be in the unemployment line this week. The Denver deal would never have matched the Seattle haul, but it would have helped fill the cupboards. No guarantee with the brain trusts who run the NFL. The Purple passed on Rodgers and selected Two absolute Busts with their two first round picks.
dekan51
March 31, 2023 at 02:29 pm
AR's 1st season he went 6-10, and this coming off a 13-3 team that made it to the NFCCG. Did the FO all get canned? Nope. And this coach and FO wouldn't have been canned if JL played this past season, and wont get canned if Love doesnt play well this coming year either....
jannesbjornson
March 31, 2023 at 02:58 pm
The defense gave up five leads after he put them out front in the fourth quarter.
barutanseijin
April 01, 2023 at 07:06 am
Who cares if he goes to the Vikings? I felt that way about Favre, too. If you think you can win more with the new guy, go with the new guy and let the chips fall where they may.
I think i’d enjoy seeing the Former Packer QB playing in Lambeau vs Love and the Packers. I can see him throwing 4 straight incompletes to a triple covered JJ with the Vikings #2 TE standing alone in the end zone. Vikings lose.
ReaganRulz
March 31, 2023 at 07:07 am
The option of Rodgers retiring is pretty slim based on his reputation of proving everybody wrong who doubted him. It’s human nature, but Rodger’s takes it to a whole new level. He’s gotta be eager to take the Jets deep into the playoffs or SB just to spite the Packer’s Front Office and all of the people that he feels slighted him.
Yes, more “what if’s” but if you follow Rodger’s history, this is the most likely outcome.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 07:55 am
I'm confident that he'll take the Jets to the playoffs. I'm also confident he'll shit the bed yet again when he gets them there.
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 09:21 am
He should get the Jets well into the playoffs with their personnel group heading into the draft. Absent a very bad draft or personnel moves, as long as he stays healthy a failure to do so would probably mean the end of his career. In Green Bay, the upside would be squeaking in and then a repeat no cap off season next year.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 11:53 am
I really dont understand all the hype over the jets. They hit on one draft class. The rest of their notable players are quinnen williams and their middle linebacker whos name escapes me. Their team really isnt that stacked. Oline is terrible, Breece Hall is recovering from a torn acl, they already traded elijah moore. So theyll have Rodgers, Garrett Williams, Allen Lazard, and possibly a 31 year old OBJ? Im not impressed in the least. Rodgers will be running for his life and pointing fingers in every direction. I put the over/under on how many games it takes him to publicly trash Robert Saleh at 7 games.
Bitternotsour
March 31, 2023 at 01:42 pm
yes Jurp, but if you put on your 2007 glasses, you'll see that he's ageless, and timeless, and his skills haven't diminished one iota. he is brian boitano.
barutanseijin
April 01, 2023 at 07:25 am
No doubt he would show up small in a playoff game, as he has tended to do since the Super Bowl. However, i’m not so sure about him even getting the Jets to the playoffs. He didn’t get the Packers there this past season and it was his shitty performances in the Detroit games that doomed the Packers. He’ll be a year older and a year flabbier after an offseason working his jawbone on sports gossip shows and sitting in the dark. He’ll also have tougher competition in the division and in the conference for wild card spots.
croatpackfan
March 31, 2023 at 07:08 am
To be honest, I listened of different "experts" on this subject, and after Brian Gutekunst said that 1st pick is not ultimate request I tend to agree on one opinion. That the main problem is conditional 2nd round pick in 2024. If ACR will not fulfill their expectation they wants Packers 2nd rounder in 2025 as value return.
Somewhat that looks logical to me. And I understand why Packers are not willing to do that. That will be same as Brian Gutekunst guarantee ACR will play at certain level, or that he will play in 2024 season, or that Jets' roster will play good enough to achieve certain goal, or that there will be no injuries from important players etc.
Every transaction or deal is risky, so Jets need to accept there is no guarantee that this trade will be sure thing. So, gentlemen, take a risk and close the deal!
RCPackerFan
March 31, 2023 at 07:10 am
Lots and Lots of Maybe's.
Maybe they are working on trading players as a part of this trade and they have to rework some contracts?
Maybe some of this has to do with Rodgers contract, and they are trying to work on how much GB is taking on vs how much the Jets take on with it.
It has been talked about enough that the Jets are possibly looking to trade away Corey Davis. Well there is no way GB is going to want his current salary. So maybe they are reworking his contract to make the trade work?
It was reported before that the Packers were seeking 2 first round picks. Maybe they are still asking for that and the Jets just don't want to give away that much without something back. But maybe the Packers now have backed off a bit. Gutey said he doesn't need a 1st round pick. Maybe they said ok, keep the 13th pick but give us the 2-2nd round picks and the 2nd next year which can become a 1st. But maybe the Jets don't want to give that much up.
Lots of Maybes and IF's. Hopefully they will just get this deal done so we can move on.
jannesbjornson
March 31, 2023 at 08:53 am
Question mark and the mysteriums...
Packers2020
March 31, 2023 at 09:11 am
It's a beautiful mystery......
coolhand
March 31, 2023 at 10:01 am
If I was Gutey and the Jets offered the 2 seconds this year, I would take it and close the deal.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 07:16 am
Probably because the trade of Rodgers is an ignorant emotion and ego driven trade that makes no sense for the Packers.
Rodgers' - passer rating champ & MVP 2 of the last 3 years - cap hit if he plays for the Packers is $31.6 in 2023 and $40.6 in 2024 - reasonable relative to any star QB. For 2023 the cap hits for other QBs are Mahomes is 39.6., Tannehill 36.6, Jackson 32.4, Goff 30.9 etc. - The Giants w Daniel Jones, with 36 more starts than Jordan Love, did not exercise their 5th yr option on Jones but did just sign Jones to a $160 M 4 yr contract with $80 dead cap/guaranteed $.
The Packers currently have $22.8 M in cap space (1st 51 players, $13.7 M counting all players) and the Jets currently have less than half that much cap space with $9.8 (1st 51 players, $1.3 M counting all players.
Next year the dead cap of $16.9 M for such void year hits for players as Amos, Lowry, Reed (who should have been extended & resigned) Tonyan (who should have been extended & resigned), Cobb (who should have been resigned & extended), Lewis (who should have been resigned & extended) and others will be gone and the current $224.8 M salary cap will increase as it usually does by about 10% of $25 M - that alone will provide the Packers with about $42 M in Cap space for 2024 to deal with Aaron's $9 M cap hit increase, should Aaron not renegotiate his $47 M option payment for 2024.
Aaron - just 1 year removed from consecutive passer rating titles (the most objective measure of QB performance), placing him in front of the other 31 other starting quarterbacks, Mahomes, Brady, Burrow, Allen, Herbert, etc. etc. - will play out the 4 remaining years of his contract & his team will be in the playoffs those 4 years.
As for Jordan, the only data points we have is that he led all of College football in interceptions in his 2nd and last year as a starter and in the only game that he has started in the NFL - giving the opponent (Chiefs) a week to game plan - he was blitzed over and over (18 times) and despite 9 men rushing him, he could not hit the consequently open receivers - generated just 7 points and had a 69.5 passer rating.
Packers are 1 year removed from 13-3, 13-3, and 13-4 seasons and with a competent Management and QB should be in the playoffs in 2023-24.
Jets GM Joe Douglas drafted Zach Wilson 2nd overall in the 2021 draft & watched the Jets trade for & draft QB Sam Darnold 3rd overall in 2018. Douglas then traded Sam Darnold, & benched Wilson, after Douglas had given up on the two 23 year olds after 38 starts for Darnold and 22 for Wilson.
The Jets were originally so high on Darnold that they traded 4 high picks to get Darnold - their 6th overall pick in 2018, 2018 37th overall pick, 2018 49th overall pick and their 2019 2nd round pick (which would be 34th overall).
1) Given that the Packers think so highly of Jordan Love that they are willing to give way the QB that won the passer rating title over 31 other starting QBs 2 of the last 3 years and is a 4 time MVP, wouldn't the Jets think the same & drop the idea of Aaron as their QB in an instant & jump at a Packer offer of young 24 yr old Jordan Love?
2) With Jordan so highly thought of, would the Jets give the Packers a Russell Wilson like package in return?:
Russell Wilson was traded for 7 players - the 9th (2022), 5th (2023), 40th (2022), 37th (2023) picks in the NFL Draft - all unconditional draft picks - & a young solid starting tight end (Noah Fant, the 20th pick in the 2019 draft) & a starting defensive end (Shelby Harris) & quarterback Drew Lock (2nd round 42nd overall pick in the 2019 draft - 6 players who will be Seattle starters and 2 of which (5th and 9th pick) will probably be all pros and a backup or possible starting QB in young Lock.
If no, why not?
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 07:56 am
Please stop posting the same thing on every thread. We get it. You're a fanboy who's a terrible analyst.
Guam
March 31, 2023 at 08:23 am
Thank you Jurp. I wrote a similar comment and then stopped short of posting it. I try to stay positive on this site and not get into flame wars. However repetitive posting of the same comment adds nothing of value to the discussion.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 08:51 am
And you are Packer Management's plant.
Management's boy.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 08:53 am
And you are Management's plant.
Management Boy.
Or you just can't handle the facts.
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 09:15 am
If you actually read other comments by that poster, you’d know that that is about as far from likely as anything can be.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 05:29 pm
Management Plant and Management's Boy - how much do they pay you to post here?
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 08:53 am
The trade of Rodgers is overdue. The only certainties are that his career is nearing its end, that our roster, coaching and cap aren’t going to give him enough at this point in his career and aren’t as good as ones that did not in the recent past. The window is closed. The past is not relevant the present and future are. No emotion is needed.
Whether this trade goes through or not the fact is that Rodgers isn’t coming back. So we may as well accept it, albeit a year later than made sense for both the team and the player. Rodgers should be better than Love this year. Favre was better than him in 2008 and maybe 2009. The Packers roster is about that far out from being ready to compete meaningfully if we are lucky. Just a Union only rational through a nostalgic sepia haze.
As to this article, it’s nearest thing to click bait I’ve seen on CHTV. I don’t use that term glibly (admittedly a tad broadly). Nothing to tell and nothing to say, but clearly stirring some deeply held pain on the part of some. The best comment here remains Chesty’s “yawn” in one sense, but perhaps it’s necessary to call time on baiting the suffering. Some things might be better not written. In my view this is one example.
I would have written nothing more here than the above paragraph were it not for the degree of fantacist offal poured out above. This article is a big step into the pit of nastiness that took over during the Favre transition.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:09 pm
You know, "Fantasist Offal" would be a great name for a metal band. As would "Slime Flux" (an actual bacterial disease of trees). We should trademark these! :)
Untylu1968
March 31, 2023 at 11:34 am
He couldn't even beat a Wilson quarterbacked team at home last year! He lost his desire to play in Green Bay, and chose to move on, packers fans need to do the same.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 01:40 pm
The Packers played that game without Watson and Watkins and the Jets blocked a punt and returned it for a TD and the Packers started Royce Newman and consequently the Jets were all over Rodgers, yet still Rodgers completed 28 of 45 asses for 248 yards and a TD and non interceptions while Zach Wilson threw for 110 yards.
It is easy to see why the Jets want Rodgers.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:10 pm
Who won? The Jets. It's easy to see why we no longer need an over-priced diva QB.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 11:46 am
Tl;dr
LLCHESTY
March 31, 2023 at 05:39 pm
You sir are the Tolstoy of Packer commenters. Quite the collection you have on here today.
SwedeBayPacker
March 31, 2023 at 07:24 am
Yeah, well maybe the Packers aren't thrilled about the low-ball garbage offer they received.
A first and second round pick, and a conditional 2025 second round pick. LMAO.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 31, 2023 at 07:35 am
I think 1 person can make a deal with another person reasonably well.
1 group often needs a deadline to make a deal with another group of people.
IDK.
RCPackerFan
March 31, 2023 at 07:43 am
Also, some people tend to panic. The longer something lasts, the more some people panic and do irrational things.
TKWorldWide
March 31, 2023 at 07:49 am
See “Johnson, Woody”.
RCPackerFan
March 31, 2023 at 07:58 am
What a name right.
Bitternotsour
March 31, 2023 at 01:49 pm
Inheritor rich boy. Never done a thing in his life but be rich. Wait him out. He'll pay whatever he has to pay.
Also too, there's a benefit to the NFL that this lasts until the last second of the Jets being on the clock at the draft. Drama, drama, drama. The stage is set, it's Aaron Rodgers in the green room all over again.
This is the narrative the NFL network and ESPN need. Sit back and relax. Everything is going according to plan.
jannesbjornson
March 31, 2023 at 08:37 am
Bring the Tiger to the Mountain. If the Jets falter, someone else will step up to the altar.
Bitternotsour
March 31, 2023 at 02:37 pm
yes, but will it be Elin Nordgren with a 9 iron in her hands?
LLCHESTY
March 31, 2023 at 05:41 pm
I meant to check in on her and see is she needs anything. Like a man.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 07:58 am
In any negotiation, the person who speaks first usually loses. So, maybe Gutekunst is keeping mum until Woody opens his mouth.
jannesbjornson
March 31, 2023 at 03:08 pm
He already gave up the one pick leverage from the Jets 2023 position when he yapped this past week in the desert. Murphy was showing the Fear at the Girl's B-Ball Tourney.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:11 pm
Well, Murphy may not be the brightest CEO in the world. Neither is Woody, for that matter.
Guam
March 31, 2023 at 08:17 am
Excellent point TGR.
The idea Rodgers is driving this negotiation is a bit of a reach, imho. Having been part of many negotiations, your idea that trying to get two committees to agree on anything is far more likely. And we know that the Packers are doing this by committee - Murphy would not allow this trade to happen without being involved in the negotiations. And I can't see Woody Johnson as uninvolved either - he was part of the group that flew to California to meet with Rodgers. This could take awhile........
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 09:45 am
Deals require patience. So many things going on behind the scenes that distract or play into it for reasons not obvious even within each party. It will either get done or it won’t.
So step back and look at it in context. Love is, if healthy, starting for the Packers. Rodgers will not be in Green Bay. We are already bearing a major cap penalty as a result of what we agreed to last year. The variable 9 million will hurt, but it won’t make a material difference. We are already in primarily draft and develop circumstances. The picks we may get seem likely to be limited this year as well. Nice but again not likely material changes to our prospects this year and we seem likely to add picks next year.
In reality, we have already put ourselves in a position this year that won’t change much for this year. Whether Rodgers is traded to the Jets, to another team or retires, the short term path is the same. The seismic event has already happened. The team had irrevocably moved on from Rodgers. The trade is an admittedly high visibility aftershock, nothing more.
“Iacta alea est,” as Caesar reportedly said as he ordered his troops across the Rubicon: “the die is cast,” everything else is now set on a course that cannot be reversed. That has already happened, only the details of our future path may vary, but the direction is irretrievably set.
Oppy
March 31, 2023 at 01:00 pm
Did you really have to go there and invoke the rubicon reference?
Ugh.
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 04:10 pm
Yes, because it’s as near to inescapable fate set in motion as anything I could conjure without putting references to sharp objects into play. Given some of the sentiments expressed and the manner of that expression, I felt it wise to refrain from such devices.
jannesbjornson
March 31, 2023 at 08:55 am
No sign of synergetics on display....
TKWorldWide
March 31, 2023 at 07:48 am
First off, you did a GREAT job coaching the Buccaneers to that Super Bowl win!
Second, I’d be shocked if AR and the NYJ didn’t discuss how much longer AR intends to play.
Third, if they did, I doubt Douglas would reveal that.
But Woody might!
I think he’s GB’s ace in the hole.
greengold
March 31, 2023 at 08:27 am
Absolutely. “Thank God for Woody Johnson,” should be a Green & Gold bumper sticker.
Carry the G.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 11:44 am
Woody loves our sloppy seconds lol
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:14 pm
It would be even nicer if Bill O'Brien were Woody's GM, but we can't have everything now, can we?
Leatherhead
March 31, 2023 at 07:53 am
From the Jets perspective, and from the Packers perspective, it's better if this deal doesn't go through before the draft, or the June 1 deadline. From the Jets perspective, it's better because they don't have to give up anything in the draft, and they're trying to get to the Super Bowl, and they have a use for their high picks.
From the Packers, it's better financially if the trade takes place after June 1.
So the hold up is that neither party has an incentive to get this done before then.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 31, 2023 at 08:34 am
This seems true and correct.
One small caveat: I like that 42nd pick. This draft might be light at the top but the depth in the 25th to 50th prospects is good. A second round pick in the 2024 draft acquired from the Jets might be pick 58. I am not a draftnik, but the 2024 draft would have to be really deep for that not to be a consideration.
The Jets have a floor. Even if AR gets hurt, they went 7-10 with Wilson and others at QB. I think it is unlikely to get a bonanza (i.e., a really high pick) if AR gets hurt. If the Jets use 13, 42 and 43 for their own team, at least one of those picks should on average really help their team in 2023.
I have been suggesting a 2nd in 2023 and a conditional 2nd in 2024 that has fairly lenient terms before it becomes a first. Probably just that AR is on the roster at the time of the 2024 draft, maybe some modest snap count qualifiers. If GB gets more, great. Those terms seem extremely reasonable to me, and indeed I can make a case for the notion that GB should get more. [Of course, I like that pick 42, but every packer fan likes pick 13 better. Maybe a swap at least in addition to a 2nd and a conditional one.]
The Jets lost 10 games last year. In those 10 games, the Jets offense scored 9, 12, 17, 3, 22, 12, 17, 3, 6, and 6. That's like 12 points per game scored in their losses. Their QBs had a passer rating of 75.0, with Wilson at 72 and Flacco at 75. There should be enough motivation on each side to get a deal done.
Leatherhead
March 31, 2023 at 08:48 am
I’m thinking the deal will involve players, not picks. Zach Wilson as our backup. Jeremy Ruckert. Corey Davis. M
Thegreatreynoldo
March 31, 2023 at 09:13 am
I think we've talked about Ruckert. He is an interesting prospect who was sidelined by injury and so ended up playing just 46 snaps.
I suppose Corey Davis' $10.5M base salary salary could be accommodated on yet another max void year restructure to push his cap number down to just about $3M. Even that would be tough for GB but doable. Davis always is a bit of a tease as his ability never seemed to match his production. Checking, it seems like his efficiency, particularly his catch percentage, took a jump when Ryan Tannenhill became his QB. Prior to that he had CLE QB and after TN he had Jets QBs.
I like Ruckert as a dual threat TE who could become a quality TE though probably not an elite one. The Jets have two TEs who belong in the NFL ahead of him. I don't think Jermaine Johnson is on the table. By which I mean he would not be if I were Joe Douglas.
Leatherhead
March 31, 2023 at 11:34 am
I'm just spitballing here, and I'm not really very familiar with who the Jets have that we could use, but I know we're going to have to suit up 45 guys and we might get a couple of them if this deal doesn't get done before draft day.
By my count, we need an OL,at least one more WR, at least one more TE, a backup QB, a safety, an edge. That's six guys. If we could fill a couple of spots in the trade, we could fill the others with high draft picks and use Day 3 to populate the PS.
I wasn't aware that Davis was such a cap hit. He's 28 already, and this is the last year of his contract. They have a S named Chuck Clark who is in the last year of his deal, and he's affordable. Probably a better option than Davis.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 31, 2023 at 01:34 pm
The Jets just traded a 7th to acquire FS Clark who comes with a $4.14M cap number. Clark asked for a trade after Baltimore signed FS to a 5 year, $70M contract and drafted S Kyle Hamilton with the 14th pick in the 2022 draft.
Many of us thought Gute was asleep at the switch. He had solid green grades of 66, 66, 68, and 72.9 the last four seasons. Not elite but proven over time. There were comments on CHTV and APC. After all, GB has 4 seventh round picks. He is 28. Lots of ways to knock that cap number down instead of reaching for a FS or waiting for and hoping Battle is still there in the 3rd, and I don't remember thinking that Battle is a prototypical FS as opposed to a SS.
LLCHESTY
March 31, 2023 at 05:52 pm
Last year Battle played 196 box snaps and 574 deep. Over the last 3 years at Alabama he had over 1350 deep snaps. I think I'd feel better with him deep than Savage at this point.
Leatherhead is wrong about them needing a safety. They need two. The best thing they can do is play Savage a lot in the slot, hope he does well and get some kind of comp pick for him.
BirdDogUni
March 31, 2023 at 03:22 pm
God, I hope not. That would be a terrible result, IMO.
Leatherhead
March 31, 2023 at 04:44 pm
We traded Favre for a Day Two pick that we packaged with some others to move up and get Matthews. If we could get Ruckert and Wilson, that would be two guys we'd dress out and they'd both have an upside. If we got a pick in the 2024 draft, assuming Rodgers keeps playing, then I'd definitely consider that as getting more than we did last time.
We're not getting #13. If the trade doesn't happen until after June 1 (which would be better for the Packers) we'll get NOTHING in the draft this year. But we're doing this trade to clear the way for Love and to improve our financial situation a little, so getting a couple of guys that can dress out at backup QB and TE would be a bonus.
Ruckert and Wilson, or Nothing? And I'm not saying either of these guys is ever going to be more than a JAG, but I think they both have that potential.
jannesbjornson
March 31, 2023 at 03:13 pm
Don't they have to exercise Love's fifth year option in May,2023?
BirdDogUni
March 31, 2023 at 03:28 pm
$20,272,000.00 Fully Guaranteed. Decision by: 3 May 23
https://www.bleachernation.com/nfl/2023/02/09/whos-eligible-for-a-fifth-...
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 09:11 am
The Packers do not have financial problems.
Rodgers' - passer rating champ & MVP 2 of the last 3 years - cap hit if he plays for the Packers is $31.6 in 2023 and $40.6 in 2024 - reasonable relative to any star QB. For 2023 the cap hits for other QBs are Mahomes is 39.6., Tannehill 36.6, Jackson 32.4, Goff 30.9 etc. - The Giants w Daniel Jones, with 36 more starts than Jordan Love, did not exercise their 5th yr option on Jones but did just sign Jones to a $160 M 4 yr contract with $80 dead cap/guaranteed $.
The Packers currently have $22.8 M in cap space (1st 51 players, $13.7 M counting all players) and the Jets currently have less than half that much cap space with $9.8 (1st 51 players, $1.3 M counting all players.
Next year the dead cap of $16.9 M for such void year hits for players as Amos, Lowry, Reed (who should have been extended & resigned) Tonyan (who should have been extended & resigned), Cobb (who should have been resigned & extended), Lewis (who should have been resigned & extended) and others will be gone and the current $224.8 M salary cap will increase as it usually does by about 10% of $22.5 M - that alone will provide the Packers with about $40 M in incremental Cap space for 2024 - on top of the $22.8 M they have currently - to deal with Aaron's $9 M cap hit increase, should Aaron not renegotiate his $47 M option payment for 2024 & other Packer veterans or Packers coming off rookie contracts that they wish to renew. And that $40M + current $22.5 or 62.5 in cap space for 2024 - is not counting other players restructuring their contracts by converting salary to signing bonus or taking salary cuts next year.
Aaron - just 1 year removed from consecutive passer rating titles (the most objective measure of QB performance), placing him in front of the other 31 other starting quarterbacks, Mahomes, Brady, Burrow, Allen, Herbert, etc. etc. - will play out the 4 remaining years of his contract & his team will be in the playoffs those 4 years.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 31, 2023 at 09:17 am
Gute is just a tightwad, I guess.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 10:19 am
Yes, it certainly seems so.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:22 pm
You must've lived in Cleveland as a child.
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 10:43 am
Now that’s bottom line cutting to the quick. TGR. Cookie
LLCHESTY
March 31, 2023 at 05:55 pm
Sarcasm might not have been Tolstoy's strong suit either!
Leatherhead
March 31, 2023 at 06:36 pm
Well, that's one possibility, I suppose.
Sschind
April 15, 2023 at 09:38 am
I'd rather have the second round pick this year and not have any Rodgers money on the books next year. It seems likely that the Jets 2nd rounder next year will be lower than this year. A 2nd rounder this year gives Jordan love one more potential cog in his wheel to succeed in his first year as a starter.
Lphill
March 31, 2023 at 07:54 am
nothing but speculation ,when will it end?
BirdDogUni
March 31, 2023 at 03:34 pm
When the Jets decide to step up and compensate the Packers for a 4-time MVP, Super Bowl Champion, Super Bowl MVP...
Jets need to corner AR12 and get a 2 or 3 year commitment to them.
BirdDogUni
March 31, 2023 at 10:11 pm
I see my two biggest fans are still around.
mrtundra
March 31, 2023 at 07:59 am
Kinda weird that Rodgers wanted more targets/weapons as part of his demands, when in the last few games he played, he could not hit the targets he had. He'd either miss them, not see them or throw to the defender covering his target. Also, too many targets, not getting open, may have been the reason he held onto the ball too long, in some of those sacks he took. Other times it may have been looking at only one target and waiting for him to get open, instead of throwing to the target(s) that were actually open. Rodgers accuracy took a hit this past season, too. Don't know if all of that can be blamed on his thumb, but that is the convenient excuse, and the truth is a bad thumb would cause those throws to be off target. Let's get this deal done, so we all can move on. I want that 13th pick and a second round pick, plus maybe, a player from the Jets, or some combination thereof. I will be forever grateful for what Aaron Rodgers did for the Green Bay Packers, but it's time for Jordan Love to take the helm and lead this team. GO PACK, GO!!!
coolhand
March 31, 2023 at 10:06 am
And he missed the biggest and most open target all season in Bahk in Detroit
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 10:27 am
And in the season ender in Detroit the Packers had 5 drops - most drops of any of the 17 games.
The Bak miss and the Watson opening day drop and the Jones fumble in the season ending Lions game, were 3 of many disappointing performances.
Especially disturbing was watching Isaiah Buggs manhandle Josh Myers at the goal line and throughout the final Lions game and that position is a real weakness with Myers. If anyone has NFL Plus watch the games again with Coaches Film/All 22 and Myers especially in the final game on Buggs.
Lions resigned Buggs right away when free agency opened March 13th.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:23 pm
Are you stockholder's son, with better English skills? Asking for a friend.
Leatherhead
March 31, 2023 at 06:39 pm
Why do you think we had more 'drops' that game? Any idea? All the receivers played crappy on the same day? And I guess there was an excuse for every other crappy offensive outing.
Your apologism for Rodgers is actually fascinating, in a clinical sort of way.
And of course, the beauty of it is that you'll be gone when Rodgers is.
greengold
March 31, 2023 at 08:03 am
PR Strategery.
RCPackerFan
March 31, 2023 at 08:13 am
What if the NFL told them to hold off on making this trade official to keep bringing more attention to the league?
greengold
March 31, 2023 at 08:51 am
Good morning, RC!
Yeah. That's what I'm talkin' about!
It's not a stretch to think this deal is done, and they're using this these next 27 days for maximum PR impact for Goodell's announcement of the trade either during or immediately preceding the 2023 NFL Draft Day 1 festivities.
There's a lot of canned responses: "The two sides are still working on it... dealing in good faith... have yet to finalize terms... the two sides are still far apart... the Jets are unwilling to give up the #13 pick..."
They can pretty much say whatever they want to take the fan bases of both teams, and the NFL in general, on a roller coaster ride of emotions until we're all left trying to catch our breath, dying for the draft to begin.
Think about this: they may stretch the storyline in these next 3-4 weeks to NYJ and GBP being at an impasse, and they throw Roger Goodell some fluffs as a mediator who helps bring the deal home for draft day.
Goodell becomes a hero. Woody becomes a hero. Murphy becomes a hero. THAT's what they're doing. Stretching this out for maximum impact in viewership & online engagements. Expansion of fan base = expansion of revenues.
I mean... that stuff happens. This is big business, under a monster microscope, with all eyes looking in daily, hourly for some, to see what they do.
The impact alone, should the deal involve a multitude of players and picks could be history in the making.
Maybe a 5 player deal, where GB walks away with WR Denzel Mims, an NYJ draft bust... (Christian Watson already has far superior #s in just 14 games played vs. Mims' 3 year totals). He'll have zero dead cap impact on NYJ, unlike QB Zach Wilson, who carries a $9.56M dead cap hit, which the Jets cannot afford with all the players they will have coming in.
I suspect GB will essentially air drop the 4-Time MVP and 3/5 of a starting Offensive Line into NY (Bak deal will be separate and cannot be completed until June 2nd, 2023). The Packers, meanwhile should wind up with a parade of picks that could extend out for years... it's possible. Just a guess.
The NFL will make certain that - everybody - is watching.
It's a total PR WIN-WIN for Woody Johnson, for Mark Murphy - both of whom have been suffering for years with significant negativity from their fan bases. It's a PR WIN for the NFL, as you mentioned, in terms of attracting viewership & ratings they can sell to future advertisers, plus the $$$ in merchandising & revenue sharing, and the worldwide expansion of their reach.
Add to that, the benefit both teams realize themselves, in getting exactly what they want, when they need it. NYJ becomes immediate contenders for the Super Bowl, while the Packers have their fiscal cap future remedied, with extra draft picks to build the new era of this historic team, the Green Bay Packers.
Everybody wins.
RCPackerFan
March 31, 2023 at 09:52 am
Morning Greengold.
It really wouldn't put it past me. There have been so many that have said that the deal is basically done, or that that it won't take much to finalize it. So perhaps the deal is done, they are just trying to drum up as much news about it as possible.
The NFL is all about keeping their name going during the lulls in the offseason. End of March/Early April, there isn't much that is being talked about, especially with the start of MLB starting up. After the first couple of weeks of free agency, it slows down, until mid to End of April its all about the draft.
Lets face it, Rodgers draws a lot of reactions. This trade will be big time news. It wouldn't surprise me if the NFL wanted to prolong this news as long as possible, and basically told the teams to milk this out.
The deal will be done, its just a matter of time when we find out.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 11:42 am
Its a decent thought but I doubt the NFL sees one of its biggest stars going back and forth with one of its biggest franchises as a good thing. Sure theres the old saying that theres no such thing as bad press, but having a player openly trash a franchise is on the edge.
T7Steve
March 31, 2023 at 08:19 am
"Rodgers said for years that he wanted more weapons. Plenty of people think that meant 1st round receivers."
How many receivers does he need, to not pass to?
If they started their conversation with promises to Rodgers, didn't they make Rodgers promise to play more than one season?
Still think Rodgers would feel disrespected if the Jets didn't think he was worth at least a 1st or two.
coolhand
March 31, 2023 at 10:17 am
He wants Lazard in NY but he didn't want to throw him the ball against SF in the playoffs
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:26 pm
That was then, this is now. No Davantae in NY, doncha know.
marpag1
March 31, 2023 at 08:57 am
Good Lord... I'm going on a darkness retreat....
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 04:15 pm
Just stay here. Lots of darkness to spare.
pantz_bURp
March 31, 2023 at 08:57 am
Screw it, I am going to watch The Big Lebowski.
Too many similarities to ignore. 😁
PearlyBakerBest
March 31, 2023 at 05:50 pm
8 year olds, dude.
LLCHESTY
March 31, 2023 at 05:58 pm
So classic. In about due for a rewatch.
https://youtu.be/YPfdSu6wO08
ChuckCecilsBloodyNose
March 31, 2023 at 09:05 am
Trade him after June 1st for a 2024 1st round pick with no restrictions on it and Jermaine Johnson II.
vin0770
March 31, 2023 at 09:40 am
I don’t think the Jets can get AR to commit to two years…that would be totally un-AR…stumbling point.
OR
Deal done on second day of draft, One of Jets second round picks comes this year one next year regardless if AR committed or not.
OR
Deal done after draft so each look over each others new stuff and package new players and picks.
OR
Deal done in June more friendly for Pack and it’s all about future picks.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 11:38 am
Of course he wont commit to 2 years. That would preempt his annual waffling next offseason and we know he loves his waffling. He'll probly play another 3 or 4 years but hes gonna milk every last second of attention he can along the way.
golfpacker1
March 31, 2023 at 09:44 am
Starr, why don't you stop hijacking ever topic that is being discussed here with your creepy man crush for Rodgers love fest. Take it to the I love Rodgers forum instead, Oh yeah there isn't one. You are the only one who thinks everybody hates Rodgers. NO WE DON'T!! The Packers fans and management are just done with his holding the Packers hostage act and want to get on with running a successful business. In the end its not about Aaron Rodgers, its about the Green Bay Packers TEAM and their success.
This thread is about what might be holding the trade up, not Aaron Rodgers interception stats.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 10:37 am
Hey Management Boy, how much do you get paid to wash Management's dirty laundry and kiss their butts all day. You are no fan, you don't even know the Packers made the playoffs in 2019.
"Holding hostage" - stop parroting the Billionaire Owners paid talking heads and their need to create controversy and hysteria for ratings and go join the church ladies and watch some soap operas instead of football - they are the only ones that care about Rodgers personal life and month or so away from football.
Bitternotsour
March 31, 2023 at 02:28 pm
Dude, the pay is spectacular. aAll of us, the acolytes of management, are knocking down 6 figures posting slander about AR. I wish you'd quit attacking us for trying to make an honest living. On the flipside, your constant repetitive posts are like gold for us, we get to comment over you, highlight your idiocy, mock you relentlessly, honestly, it's the highlight of my job.
We normally meet on Tuesdays to do strategy for the week, prior to Al posting Polluted Mindset. Then, it's off to the races. BTW - the barbecues at the Gutekunst's are incredible. He has a kegorator! His wife is awesome. Anyways thanks, I guess.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:29 pm
You only get six figures? Dude, you need a new agent. And oh my, Gute's beer choices are fucking AWESOME! Dude knows his suds, that's for sure!
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 11:04 am
As to what is holding the trade up, as I said the trade of Rodgers to begin with is the dumbest trade and PR move the Packers have made of all time and all the PR wizardry in the world will not be able to overcome the backlash that awaits,
This trade will be remembered as worse for the Packers - worse than General Manager and Head Coach Dan Devine's trade for John Hadl, "and a one and two and a one two, three of October 1974.
And it won't take long.
Poor Devine took a lot of abuse. He broke his leg on the sideline in his first game ad Packer Coach when a Giant ran into him. Led the Packers - with the help of Starr as QB coach - and good defense - to one of the 2 playoff appearance between 1968 and 1991 and just couldn't make it work with Scott Hunter, Jerry Tagge, Jim Del Gaizo at QB and then Hadl .
Now we have 2023's ego driven, emotion based ignorant trade of the longest tenured Packers and 2 of the last 3 year passer rating champ - probably would have won again if not for the broken thumb and being sabotaged with loss of his 2 top receivers.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 11:39 am
Cryyyyyy haaaaaarder.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:31 pm
"longest tenured Packers and 2 of the last 3 year passer rating champ - probably would have won again if not for the broken thumb and being sabotaged with loss of his 2 top receivers."
Dude, you SURE you're not stockholder's more literate son? Daughter? Niece or nephew?
I ask because the Bonkers Scale lit up like a fucking Christmas Tree when I fed it this post. It shook and shuddered but thankfully didn't break - it maxed out at 12 (yes, it goes past ten. Nigel Tufnel's not wrong).
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 05:38 pm
Management's Boy how much they paying you to show limited football and general knowledge. Dude. :>) - isn't their an 8th grade exam you need to be prepping for? I knew it you were young by the "only" won one superbowl, but you are probably even younger than I thought.
Grow up.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 06:04 pm
I'm sixty-three and remember the AFL-NFL Championship Games 1 and 2, as well as the "dark years". I lived and breathed Packers for almost my entire life and have forgotten more football than you can even imagine.
Ad hominem attacks are a sign of a loser.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 06:20 pm
Ad hominem attacks are a sign of a loser.
If that is true you are quite a loser
Swisch
March 31, 2023 at 10:35 am
What if Aaron Rodgers is being as arrogantly domineering with the Jets as he has seemed to be with the Packers?
Then, it would be urgent for the Packers to get rid of the headache of Rodgers as soon as possible with certainty, so that he definitely becomes the problem of the Jets.
A second-round pick this year, a conditional second-round pick next year, and perhaps a player from the Jets.
Do the deal today.
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 11:21 am
it would be urgent for the Packers to get rid of the headache of Rodgers as soon as possible with certainty
Lafleur doesn't think so and he has to deal with this abortion:
Lafleur on Love:
"It's going to be a different role for him certainly and I think we all have to kind of temper our expectations with him, for him. It is just different when you are going into a game vs. when you are starting a game and it is going to be a process, but it is going to be, you know it is going to be exciting for him, for us. I don't think any quarterback can truly do it on their own in this league so it is going to be everybody rallying around him and trying to play at the best of their ability so he could go out there and perform as good as he possibly can."
"Certainly we are fooling ourselves if we think he is going to go out there and perform at a level of the like at which Aaron Rodgers does. I mean this guy is a once in a life time, generational talent."
Lafleur on Rodgers at Owners meeting (Sports Illustrated Bill Huber):
Excerpt:
Then, LaFleur hit on the crux of the matter.
“He’s done so much for myself, my family, our coaches’ families, so many people within the organization, other players,” LaFleur continued. “A lot of people have been rewarded, quite frankly, because of his ability to go out there and play and play at such a high level.”
LaFleur is right.
It’s more than that, though. Much more.
It’s what LaFleur said.
Would LaFleur be the fourth-longest-tenured coach in the NFC if not for Rodgers? Would he and Gutekunst be working under contract extensions?
Would Nathaniel Hackett have become the head coach of the Denver Broncos if not for Rodgers?
Would Luke Getsy have become the offensive coordinator of the Chicago Bears if not for Rodgers?
Would Mike McCarthy have lasted more than a decade if not for Rodgers?
Would Joe Philbin and Ben McAdoo have gotten head coaching opportunities if not for Rodgers?
Would a pantheon of front-office members have moved onto bigger and better opportunities if not for Rodgers?
Would Allen Lazard and Marquez Valdes-Scantling have earned free-agent paydays averaging $11 million and $10 million per year, respectively, if not for Rodgers?
Would Mark Murphy, who took over as team president late in 2007, remain on the job if not for Rodgers?
Would there be the 24/7 ATM that is Lambeau Field available to fund all sorts of facilities improvements if not for Rodgers?
Would there have been two successful stock sales if not for Rodgers?
Would the Packers – the smallest-market team in the NFL – rank regularly in the top 10 in the NFL in revenue if not for Rodgers?
Would those small-market Packers rank 24th in Forbes’ annual ranking of the most valuable sports teams in the world if not for Rodgers?
Packers fans are spoiled. That’s not a criticism. To go from Favre to Rodgers, a couple generations of Packers fans have no idea what it’s like to cheer for a losing team. No idea what it’s like to wake up on Sunday and hope the game is at least a little close in the fourth quarter. No idea what it’s like to start a season without real championship aspirations.
Jordan Love could be a legitimate NFL starting quarterback and still not be able to hold a candle to Rodgers. The New York Giants, for instance, just signed their quarterback, Daniel Jones, to a four-year contract worth $160 million. For what? Is he really good enough to get them to a Super Bowl? Maybe not but they’d really have no hope without him.
A new world awaits in Green Bay
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 11:36 am
Oh man not expecting a 1st year starter to play like a hall of famer right out of the gate is textbook evidence that he sucks. Why are you even here? Dont you have some book club recommendations to read?
StarrtoRodgers
March 31, 2023 at 12:24 pm
Just expect Jordan to play as well in 2023 as Rodgers did in 2008.
Jordan's had 3 years to develop - same as Rodgers when he started in 2008 - and should be expected to perform just as well as Rodgers did in 2008 - and it should be easier on Jordan as QBs are more protected now than in 2008.
Packers were 3 and 1 before Rodgers broke his thumb year and 13-3, 13-3 and 13-4 the 3 years prior and unless Packer management continues to rip the team apart the Packer 2023-24 team will be better than the 2021-22 Packer team every where other than maybe receiver and tight end depending on how 2022's and 2-023's draft picks wok out.
Whereas Rodgers in 2008 was 6th out of 32 starters in passer rating and threw 28 touchdowns and 13 interceptions and for over 4,000 yards in 16 games we shall see what Jordan does in 17 games. Should be much easier for Jordan as QBs are more protected than they were in 2008. Packers defense in 2007 was ranked6th and gave up 291 points and in 2008 the Packers defense was ranked 22nd and gave up 380 points
Aaron as the true Packer fan will remember opened 2008 and his career as Packer starter with an 18 for 22 , 1 Td, 0 Int, 115.5 passer rating Packer 24-19 win at Lambeau vs. the Vikings and followed it with a 3 Td 0 Int 117 passer rating 48-25 Packer victory in Detroit. Aaron then severely injured his right throwing shoulder against Tampa in Tampa and he was limited in practice the next month, but still played through it.
Disrespecting Davante before the 2021 season after 7 years of loyal service by not signing him to a long term contract then trying to franchise him - and put him at risk of injury in his prime earning years - and then watching Davante - out of anger - sign with the Raiders for less money - clearly signaled MVS and Lazard and others that they were not valued by the Packers, but Rodgers has trained the new rookies - Watson, Doubs. and Toure -and with the 2 1st round picks used on Jaxon Smith-Njigba and Darnell Washngton and hopefully Cobb and Lewis back for team morale and veteran leadership - if mgmt hasn't alienated them too by their treatment of Adams, Valdez Scantling, Lazard, Rodgers, MVS, Tonyan, Barnes, Jarran Reed, and others - Love has a good crew around him - capable of going to the Super Bowl this year were Rodgers at the helm.
Expectations should be for Love to perform as well as Rodgers in 2008 - here are some of the details:
He finished the season with 4,038 passing yards, becoming only the second quarterback in NFL history to surpass 4,000 yards in the same season in which he made his first career start. Kurt Warner (4,353) was the first to accomplish the feat in 1999.
Rodgers is the fourth player in club history to surpass the 4,000-yard mark, joining Lynn Dickey (1), Brett Favre (5) and Don Majkowski (1).
Four times Rodgers went over 300 yards passing. He also tossed three touchdown passes in four games.
Rodgers' 28 touchdown passes were tops among first-year starters and marked the first time since Daunte Culpepper (33) in 2000 that a first-year starter threw for 25-plus touchdowns.
The California product took care of the ball as well, throwing 13 interceptions in 536 attempts, 2.42% of his throws. It was the lowest percentage by a Packers quarterback in over a decade (Favre, 1996, 2.39%).
And perhaps most importantly in Green Bay, Rodgers started all 16 games in 2008, fighting through a serious shoulder injury suffered in Week 4 at Tampa that kept him out of practice for one month.
Proving he is among the NFL's top quarterbacks will take years of consistent play, but there is no doubt the 25-year-old Rodgers is off to a great start. A look at where his 2008 totals ranked in the NFL:
Statistic: 2008 total (NFL Rank)
Passing Yards: 4,038 (4)
Completions: 341 (7)
Completion %: 65.6 (10)
Touchdowns: 28 (4)
QB Rating: 93.8 (6)
20-plus yd. completions:48 (5T)
40-plus yd. completions:16 (1T)
Third-down QB rating:105.8 (3)
First downs passing:182 (9T)
Coldworld
March 31, 2023 at 04:20 pm
I never thought I’d see SH surpassed, but you’ve more than achieved it. This is well into the terrain where medical personnel are the only appropriate readers. This constant repetition of the same mantras is manic.
Im no longer engaging. It’s not funny, ha ha or peculiar, it’s downright disturbing.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:33 pm
He's a helluva a lot wordier, too. I'm already nostalgic for stockholder, even though he's still with us.
At least sh has value with his draft posts.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 04:26 pm
Tl;dr
Swisch
March 31, 2023 at 12:02 pm
I've been a huge fan of Aaron Rodgers over the years, but he seems to have diminished in character along the way to an arrogant and domineering self-absorption.
Due to his decline, he has become the fault around which the Packers crack and crumble under pressure -- as evidenced by the three crushing defeats at Lambeau Field to end the last three season in heartbreak.
I still root for him to turn things around in becoming a man of humility who is a leader of men. It seems that enabling the worst of him will only harm him further; and only honest caring will bring out the best in him.
Sad to say, Rodgers is no Starr when it comes to the integrity it takes to lead a team to the top.
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:34 pm
Well said, Swisch.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 11:34 am
Now that this team is finally returning to sanity, I have decided to change my handle in honor of old man Vic. He taught us well, only he didnt say baloney.
croatpackfan
March 31, 2023 at 12:36 pm
And do you remember that vision of whistle of the train in distance that coming noiser and noiser while train entering the station. I like that description of the playing with cap money kicking it to the future.
And I can remember when he, to the horror of many Packers fans told us that if he need to pick one QB who will take to manage come back in the game he would pick Tom Brady. Now I understand why...
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 31, 2023 at 04:25 pm
I remember that metaphor well and it was spot on. Damn I miss his blogs. He was 100% right about Rodgers/Brady too. Thats what I respected most about Vic. He did his job but he didnt bite his tongue for anybody. He said what he meant and he meant what he said.
701Packer
March 31, 2023 at 12:53 pm
Lazard is on the roster, potentially so will Cobb & OBJ... They already have Wilson and Hardman, and all of a sudden Aaron is gonna throw to a rookie?
Right...
jurp
March 31, 2023 at 05:35 pm
Sure he'll throw to the rookie - as soon as he can trust him
golfpacker1
April 01, 2023 at 11:46 am
Hello, Mangement Boy here. Or am I Fanboy? I can't remember so I better take a memory enhancing pill.
I had a couple questions for someone who won't quote me Rodgers stats for the last 15 years. I am already aware he was a great NFL QB. I have a TV.
Would the Jets really trade Zach Wilson at this point? I would be shocked if they have given up on him already if only for the loot they gave up to draft him. And they have to realize the most they get out of Rodgers is 3 or 4 years. More likely 2 years. I would think they are hoping that playing behind Rodgers gives Wilson a chance to reach his potential. They too will have the big 5th year decision to make. I don't see us trading for as we don't have the money to sign him anyway.
Not that it makes or breaks this trade, I think a for sure player coming back to Green Bay is Denzel Mims. his name has been in more mock trades for awhile. He is just a throw in because the Jets are ready to move on from him. Why would you say no to taking him. The Packers loved him 3 years ago in the draft. He is healthy and fresh at this point because the Jets have underused him. He still has untapped potential and is 6'3 215 lbs. and ran 4.3 at combine. He is 24 years old and a potential star. The few passes they have thrown him he has averaged 15 YPC. I would take him in a heartbeat over Corey Davis who we can't afford and has also done nothing with the Jets. The pattern is the Jets have sucked at QB and WRs have paid the price. They must have thrown everything to Garret Wilson for him to get 1000 yards last year. Mims is cheap, fits our WR criteria, and we need receivers. say yes to Mims. Mims = Quentin Johnson and we still have #15 for a TE, Edge, OT or a trade back for more picks and players.
Why do you think the Jets wouldn't just try to strike a deal with the Ravens for Lamar Jackson. They still have to give up a lot for him. They will have to pay him a lot too. But he his younger, fresher and arguably better than Rodgers at this point. And I don't hear that he is a major pain in the ass either. I don't want the Jets to do this, but I could see the Jets offering Wilson and a 2024 1st for Jackson. That would be fair compensation and would get rid of Wilson too. I don't want this to happen, but it would make sense if it did.
I think this trade is taking longer because neither team wants to give too much or receive too little. Even though both teams would like it to be done so they can get on with business. If it was possible, Green Bays best trade date would be June 1 to save money on the cap. But that screws them for extra picks in this draft. The Jets say they are in no hurry and could wait indefinitely too even though they need Rodgers in camp ASAP.
Both teams are probably in real life wanting it done now even though neither wants to admit it.
I would love for 1st round picks, plural to be in the trade but I think we will get at the most both 2023 2nd rounders, a 2024 conditional 2nd rounder and some players. It's nowhere near what last year's trade would have gotten us but would be decent at this point. We could still be creative by trading back if possible, to later in 1st round, and even trade back from #43 to later in 2nd. This would give us valuable extra picks in early rounds, and we could fill almost all of the holes in this year's draft. It would seem like we got more for Rodgers too. I would be fine with this if it went down this way. Sorry but this ended up being as longs as one of Starrs posts.
StarrtoRodgers
April 02, 2023 at 10:28 am
Former Packers John Kuhn and Mark Tauscher weigh on Packer Management poor treatment of Packer players - Jordy Nelson and Davante Adams - and how this effected Aaron Rodgers and Packer fans voice their feelings on the rumored Rodgers trade to the Jets:
John Kuhn Thinks Davante Adams Trade Caused Collapse For Rodgers And Green Bay
John Kuhn excerpt #1:
John Kuhn is perfect as a talking head. He doesn’t buy into the national dramatics but isn’t scared to speak the what he believes is the truth about his favorite team. The former Green Bay legend and host of the popular Nine 2 Noon radio program laid out an interesting belief when reacting to the comments out of this week’s owners meetings.
“If you could go back in time and do this trade, and I have maintained this, I think that the Davante Adams trade last year threw both the Packers Aaron Rodgers for a loop. The Packers may have made the trade last year for Aaron Rodgers. They may have made that trade if Davante Adams was not a part of the team when they did the deal with Aaron Rodgers.
I think that was the card that caused this whole house of cards to fall apart last year.”
John Kuhn excerpt #2:
Earlier in the week while reacting to the Brian Gutekunst’s comments Kuhn weighed in on leverage and the Packers timeline for a deal.
“It is going to be wild to see exactly when this trade takes place and for what assets. Because I feel the Jets have the leverage pre-draft. I feel, now this is just the way I feel, if the Packers make a trade before this year’s draft, they’re going to get less in compensation for Aaron Rodgers. It will be a tell-tale sign that they just want this whole saga to be behind them
“If they make this trade after the draft and before June 1, it tells me ‘Hey, they were ready to put this whole thing behind them, but they wanted still to get the best assets that they possibly could.’ And if they let this thing play out into the summer months, that means Brian Gutekunst was playing absolute hardball with the Jets, trying to put them between a rock and a hard place.”
Mark Tauscher excerpt #1:
Mark Tauscher recently went on record stating he believes things fell apart when Rodgers saw the way the organization treated Jordy Nelson on the way out the door.
“How the Jordy Nelson release was handled completely changed Aaron’s outlook on the organization and drafting Jordan Love was the dagger to the relationship that never ever recovered and [led] to the ‘lost’ season of 2022.”
Rodgers was famously disappointed in the move. It would be the first of many that would make the future Hall of Famer feel that way. A pattern that would lead Rodgers to become outspoken about his involvement in personnel. Tauscher might not be too far off base given Jordy’s original comments at the time.
“I met with Brian and had a discussion because I had to get a feel for not just the pay cut but what their plans were going forward,” Nelson said. “After that meeting, there wasn’t, I don’t think, much desire there. I think the hurt part was, to be honest, was the unwillingness to try to make it work”
Packer fans:
Had Rodgers been traded last off-season it’s easy to believe the Packers would have received the Russell Wilson type haul so many fans are yearning for.
And there is no reason that in 2023 the Packers should not STILL receive a "Russell Wilson type haul so many fans are yearning for":
Russell Wilson was traded for 7 players - the 9th (2022), 5th (2023), 40th (2022), 37th (2023) picks in the NFL Draft - all unconditional draft picks - & a young solid starting tight end (Noah Fant, the 20th pick in the 2019 draft) & a starting defensive end (Shelby Harris) & quarterback Drew Lock (2nd round 42nd overall pick in the 2019 draft - 6 players who will be Seattle starters and 2 of which (5th and 9th pick) will probably be all pros and a backup or possible starting QB in young Lock.