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What Are the Packers Communicating?

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What Are the Packers Communicating?

Green Bay Packers organized team activities wrapped up at the end of last week and the team won't reconvene until training camp in July.  Hence, this commences a long period of time with no new football activity.

Beyond the coveted updates on the rookies that the team will count on and updates on Aaron Rodgers and his speculated contract talks, the coaches spoke with the media.

By now, most of us have seen or heard the interaction between the local media and Packers Assistant Head Coach/Linebackers Coach Winston Moss.  While there isn't much to glean from an assistant coach following a practice with no pads or hitting, Moss's demeanor was odd.

Whether he was having fun with the media or if there is some other issue that we're not aware of, it at least raises the question about what the Packers are trying to communicate.

Some fans couldn't care less and don't give a you-know-what about what coaches say, including Head Coach Mike McCarthy.  They just want the Packers to win games.  Others are interested in what is going on with the team beyond the product on the field.

If we're being honest, there's not much that Moss is ever going to share with us that's going to come up at most dinner tables in Green Bay.  But is this how the Packers want to be communicating with the outside world?

Teams and players can say what they want.  I'm not questioning free speech.  And each team has its own set of standards when it comes to players and coaches addressing the media.  But the optics still communicate and the takeaway to some is the wonderment of why this Packers coach is being so curt with the media.

To be fair, Moss is the only coach who has approached his interaction with the media in that manner.  Defensive Pass Game Coordinator/Cornerbacks Coach Joe Whitt, for example, was very engaging and forthcoming when he had his time at the podium.  So Moss is hardly the standard.

It still leads me to question why the Packers are allowing this attitude to be displayed and represent them.  Our answer will likely come the next time Moss speaks to the media.  If he's back to his usual forthcoming self, this was all just a weird one-off.  If he's still grouchy and apathetic, then the Packers clearly are letting these coaches be what they want in front of the microphone.

Do you care if Packers players and coaches are difficult or negative with the media or is it a "much ado about nothing" scenario for you?

-- Jason is a freelance writer and has been on staff since 2012.  You can follow him on Twitter here

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (84) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Donster's picture

After watching the video, it seems Winston Moss wasn't to happy about something. He seemed like he had just come back from a royal butt chewing. Or he hates the media (can't blame him).

Personally, I don't mind the way he is responding to the media in the video. I'm sure he has a lot better things to do. At least he isn't sugar coating everything and throwing out a cliche contest like McPuffy.

The TKstinator's picture

I bet Vince Lombardi was surly on occasion.

Tundraboy's picture

Sure bet on that. Different world.

Turophile's picture

Two truly dreadful press conferences. I cannot see Moss as part of the Packers in 2019. I think with that attitude he'd be already gone now, if it weren't so awkward to repace a coach at this time of year - that's best done at the end of the season when there are plenty of other viable choices.

McCarthy has said himself that THE MOST IMPORTANT ability a coach needs is to be a good teacher. To be a good teacher you must be a good communicator, which is where Moss is failing so badly at the moment.

With the Packers swapping Randall away because of his attitude, it would send a terrible message to all the players if a coach can be like that, and not suffer any consequence.

I'm certain some posters here will think his attitude in front of the cameras is of no consequence. I happen to be in the camp of posters that thinks it does matter.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Moss went too far. Way too far. I'm no fan of reporters, but for crimoney's sake, they're just doing their job.

I would have dismissed Moss immediately, since this was the 2nd occurrence. I don't care what time of year it is. Honestly, I think he's just mad he didn't get more consideration for DC.

Fire him. Now.

zoellner25's picture

I think Moss knows his time is nearly up in GB.

kevgk's picture

Oh come on man, he wasn't very helpful in a press conference about OTAs and youre ready to damn him as a poor teacher? I'm happy people like you aren't calling the shots.

Turophile's picture

kevgk. I guess we can put you firmly in the camp of 'it doesn't matter', then. I'm also happy not to have you as a boss, if you dismiss that kind of behaviour as nothing.

I still roll with him not being a part of the team in the 2019 season. We will see who gets it right, if both our memories hold up a year from now.

nostradanus's picture

I didn't like the way Moss represented himself and the Green Bay Packers. From his body language to his short one line answers and his apparent stare down with reporters. This is a PR driven business especially in the small town of Green Bay. If the fans are in a feel good, happy happy mood with the team they purchase more products and spend more money. In Wisconsin fans feel like they are a part of the Packers which leads to feel good which equals REVENUE. Moss acted like an A..hole and really hasn't done a great job developing players under his command in my opinion. Big Mike should have a hard discussion with Moss and remind him that his job is on the line. Moss was extremely un-proffesional and should apologize publicly, but he won't.

Turophile's picture

If i was a reporter in that room, I'd arrange it with everyone to wait until Moss walks to the podium, then every reporter walks out. It not only sends a message to Moss (who probably won't care), but more importantly to McCarthy. You lose nothing by walking out, since Moss won't communicate anyway.

stockholder's picture

Moss sees change. He's on the hot seat. TT got him LBs, and most failed. The revolving door has been at LB. Peppers came in and played better than Hawk. Think about that. A DL guy that was considered over the hill, playing better than a top ten pick. And so it goes on. Why do are LBs keep failing. He's lived off Mathews. Moss should have been fired.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Yeah, I've always liked Moss, but this was unreal. I would have fired him.

dobber's picture

"Peppers came in and played better than Hawk. Think about that. "

A future HOF player--drafted second overall--outplayed AJ Hawk? Hmmm...(scratches head).

It would be more meaningful if they had similar roles in the defense.

stockholder's picture

You seem to miss the point. Like always. They were LBs. They moved Hawk outside to inside. Peppers didn't have experience at LB. And yet he made more of an impact at the OLB POSITION, then even PERRY. How many LBs or FreeAgents did MOSS Recommended they Keep. Also why did Datone Jones Fail? It's the coaching!! Not similar Roles! The need for pass Rushers is Moss' downfall. Why did all TTs draft picks fail? Where is the depth? The 3- "FOUR" -4 is on Moss. Mathews had a Bitch about depth. Ok your comment suggest any hall of fame player gives Moss an excuse. Moss is using his bully attitude to Keep his job. I'm sure you both have the same thing in common.

stockholder's picture

Dobber has had positive symptoms of schizophrenia.

Since '61's picture

Stockholder in all the years that I have been posting here and at Jersey Al's ALLGBP, Dobber has consistently been one of the best posters here and his posts like the one above, are usually spot on. Possibly check your definition of schizophrenia.

Peppers is a legit HOFer while Hawk was an inconsistent player between very average and occasionally good. Thanks, Since '61

stockholder's picture

Poking Back. Dob just has trouble with me. Example: Hawk was a Top 10 pick. A proven college LB! It was up to Moss to make him that packer HOFer. It was up to Moss to make draft picks,= starters. It was up to Moss to Keep the stable ready. He was Capers 2nd. What did we get? Dobs argument was different positions. But Moss is a LB COACH. Moss had players with PROMISE. A Different position is the Offensive Line. But Look how James Campen gets his players moving around on that line. He has produced results with less. Bahk, Linsey, Trotter, etc. were all late picks. Campen found replacements. WHY Didn't MOSS? Moss has failed the Packers Badly. His rampage with reporters is the biggest insight. It's shown how he has worked with his assistants, colleges, and his players. The revolving door was empty after the starters were out.

dobber's picture

Withdrawn.

realitybytez's picture

"Bahk, Linsey, Trotter, etc. were all late picks."

who are those people?

i get that this isn't a spelling contest, but it's hard to take someone seriously when they can't even spell one out of three players on their home team correctly.

Jason Perone's picture

You can diagnose that from a blog post? C'mon Stock ;)

dobber's picture

Yes we have...

croatpackfan's picture

I'm glad I'm able to discuss with all of you dobber(s)...

Oppy's picture

With all due respect stockholder, you seem to miss the point.

AJ Hawk was drafted as a 4-3 Will under Bob Sanders, and was converted to a 3-4 Mac when Dom came in (two completely different roles that require to completely different body types and skill sets, Hawk did what he had to do and made it work). Julius Peppers has played DE in 4-3 as well as OLB in 3-4 over the years, and filled that hybrid role in GB when not strictly playing OLB (elephant). Hawk and Peppers have never played the same positions in Green Bay, or anywhere else in the NFL. You're actually making a comparison that makes no sense.

Just a little aside, AJ Hawk generally played his position responsibilities at a high level during his time in Green Bay.

GBPDAN1's picture

Looks like he took a course in the Mike Ditka/ Bill Parcells school of media abuse

LeagueObsrvr's picture

Maybe the media's treament of HHCD has him feeling a bit salty. If that's the case, I don't blame him...

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

With HHCD's comments, I think the media has gone too easy on him. Indicating you'd set your sick godmother aside and come to camp if there was money in it? Unbelievable.

Combined with HHCD's appalling, protect-my-body-at-the-expense-of-the-team play last season, this might be the most selfish non-Martellus Bennett player we've seen here in decades.

kevgk's picture

Where is this spite coming from? Contrived controversy? For a down year he still had a good statline for a safety.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Spite? Why read excess emotions into my comments? I'm simply analyzing his conduct in light of his statements, and it paints a bad picture.

I've never had anything against HHCD, but I certainly oppose his recent comments, greatly diminished play last year, and act of blaming everyone else for it. My goodness, I would hope anyone would see a real lack of character in this young man.

My analysis--and that of a recent article (no, I'm not looking it up for you)--concludes this is a very selfish player who will likely leave after this season...and for many, not be missed.

That's not spite. It's honesty.

kevgk's picture

I would sure like to see these comments and blame you strongly oppose.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

I normally don't care if a coach strokes the media's delicate sensibilities, but Moss's behavior was just bizarre. Too bizarre. I honestly think the team should have fired him.

Archie's picture

I have been down on Winston Moss as a coach for a long time. Why would somebody who has failed at everything he has touched for more than a decade feel entitled to act like that? Makes no sense.

Archie's Packer Hit List:

1 - MM
2 - WM
3 - HHCD

They would all be additions by subtraction.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Agreed.

Tarynfor12's picture

The questions were ridiculous....Moss is trying hard to not give praise about players that haven't done anything since the end of last season. What are the jumps in a players play supposed to be based on?..No pads,no hitting?.

People get pissed when smoke is blown up their arse and get pissed when it isn't.

zoellner25's picture

questions were not ridiculous. Asking a coach what improvements his players have made? Asking a coach what he likes about his players? Come on man. He behaved like a spoiled teenage brat in that presser.

Jason Perone's picture

Moss CAME TO the podium with an attitude problem, it had nothing to do with the questioning.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

A-freaking-men, Jason. This weirdness was thoroughly unprovoked.

Oppy's picture

Well, unprovoked inside the confines of the Presser room during the press conference. These guys all have 24 hour lives and things occur outside of the press conference. We have no idea if it was unprovoked or not. I would guess something provoked this, regardless of if the reaction could be considered acceptable or rational.. most likely there was a stimulus that led to Moss's behavior.

High on my list of guesses is Jason Wilde's reports that the Packers were probably going to fire Winston Moss. I would also suspect that the potential that Wilde either badgered Moss for comment about supposed inevitable termination, or perhaps on the other end of the spectrum, not even bothering to talk to Moss before running those articles, could be an agitation to a guy. Again, just random guessing and examples of things that could be the source provocation.

Maybe the beat writers call Moss "Stinky Trousers" when they don't think he can hear them. We may never know.

kevgk's picture

You can tell its peak offseason and outrage culture is at its highest. People will rightfully forget this in a week.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

On the contrary, I predict reporters will be buzzing about it the next time Moss approaches a podium. Any bets on which of us is right?

And how about you relax the extreme depictions of those disagreeing with you here, 'kay.? We'll let you know when we're full of "spite" and "outrage." We'll make sure you're the first one we tell.

Spock's picture

It was strange, but who knows how his day went prior to this 'incident'. Maybe the reporter who asked the question has been a pain in the butt to Moss, maybe Moss dropped his favorite coffee cup and broke it and then his dog bit him; who knows? :) I will give him the benefit of the doubt that this is an "one off". If he continues to be 'weird' then that's another story. Personally, as long as the players he coaches do well I don't give a rats arse how he responds t the media.

Lare's picture

This was the second interview that week that Moss acted this way. IMO, he's out of line.

Moss is acting like an immature teenager and should be held accountable by the organization.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Absolutely. Any of us would be fired.

No matter what nice-speak and happy-face Moss and the team usher out next time around, there is no way this guy isn't a full-blown cancer behind the scenes. No way.

Lare's picture

The point is, the media is just doing their jobs to get information to us fans. And ultimately, it's us fans who are paying for the team and media salaries. How many of us scan the various Packers-related news sites every day to see if there is anything new of interest?

Whether Moss likes the news media or not, it's part of his job to be available occasionally to answer questions on the area he is coaching. If he can't handle that in a mature manner (and he isn't), then he needs to find another line of work.

Lare's picture

Yes, or Cracker Jacks.

4thand1's picture

Looks like all the added year round football has gotten to Moss. Some guys just can't handle it. Maybe with Capers things were good enough but not with Pettine. Pettine will hold everyone accountable, I don't think ol Dom was much of a motivator. There's a new sheriff in town and the deputies better shape up. Either that or he's just nuts.

Since '61's picture

All we can do here is speculate on the reasons for Moss' press conference behavior. There are as many possible reasons for it as there are posters on this blog.

It could be a personal issue, a health issue, a team/job related issue or just simply an "I want to get this press conference over with and get out of here issue". We will probably never know.

I will say that Moss would have been better served to cancel the conference than to present himself as he did. IMO coaches and players are forced to meet with the press far too often and realistically they should not be expected to be on their best behavior every time out.

I always remind my associates and myself before a meeting with our clients to remember that we don't know what type of meeting or what type of day these people have had before they meet with us, so be prepared to tread lightly as their focus may be in a different place. For me the earlier the meeting or call the better.

In fairness to reporters they have a job to do on a very tight schedule so they don't have the luxury to tread lightly.

For whatever reason it was obvious to me that Moss did not want to be there at that time. He was forcing it and the press conference was over when the reporter asked what they (the reporters) could do to make it go a little better and after a delay Moss replied "I don't know how to help you." They should have called it a day right then and there.

For now, let it be until training camp. Thanks, Since '61

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

It was his 2nd occurrence, it was ridiculously hostile, it was unprovoked, and it was completely unlike anything we've seen before.

He should be fired immediately, as any of us would be. This guy has now made himself "the story"--a needless, selfish, nasty distraction.

I believe it's likely he's upset over not being seriously considered for DC, and I think it's clear now why he wasn't considered, and I think if we have any standards left--not a certainty in NFL circles--he should be dismissed ASAP.

WKUPackFan's picture

Exactly what type of distraction has Moss caused, and who of importance is distracted? This incident happened last week. It had, at most, a 24 hour shelf life. Other than this article and the comments thereto, no one else is talking about it, or even thinking about it. None of the players are talking about it, and it is almost a certainty that none of them care.

Thinking that this incident is a distraction is purely a "you problem". Just because you have a problem with it does not mean that anyone of importance to the team feels the same way.

penorton's picture

I know that the first time it happened I thought it was "odd" but wrote it off to having a bad day.

When it happened the next time he spoke to the media, to me, it suggested either an issue with the media or within the coaching staff.

I could care less if Moss has an issue with the media but I would hope he could be professional in dealing with them.

I think the chance that it could be an issue within the coaching staff is why people care about it which seems like a normal reaction for a fan to have.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

You're kidding, right? Look WKU, I know you're desperate to attack anything I write, but this is stretching it.

This was a national story, not a 24 hour story. It has been mentioned in lots of articles, not one. And as for the players, they would be insane to bring it up--surely you know that.

As for the distraction, this has already spanned two interviews, multiple articles, and national attention--yes, it's a distraction. It's a story. It's something reporters will be discussing heavily under their breaths the next time Moss is introduced. And regardless of the happy face Moss and the team will put on this when they come back for camp, there is no way Moss hasn't become a full-blown cancer behind the scenes. You don't act that way unless you're at the center of major in-house dysfunction--not in public, not twice.

Next time you find you must attack me, try something a little less obvious, 'kay? That was weak.

WKUPackFan's picture

The key word in your reply is "was". It was a story for very brief time last week. Now it is not.

As for it being a national story, a review of the Packers specific stories on PFT reveals no posting of this incident. Perhaps it was mentioned on ESPN or the NFL network, perhaps not. Nevertheless, it is no longer being mentioned by anyone of national appeal (not that such discussion would constitute a distraction to team in any event).

The bottom line is that the incident was not a distraction, and is not a continuing distraction, to anyone associated with the team.

Lare's picture

"The bottom line is that the incident was not a distraction, and is not a continuing distraction, to anyone associated with the team."

That is an opinion, we have no way of knowing if it is a fact.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Oh, I'm about 99.9% sure it is not a fact. Does anyone really believe the team officials are fine and dandy with this? Anyone besides WKU, that is?

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Dude, I live in Denver, and it was a big story here. It was in the news, and they were talking about it all over sports talk.

Give it up, 'kay? You said 24 hours. You were wrong--by a lot. And if you think team officials aren't upset about Moss's behavior, then you're kidding yourself.

WKUPackFan's picture

I stand by the 24 hour shelf life, and the fact that there is no mention of it on PFT indicates that it was not a national story. Without knowing the date and origin (local or national) of the alleged Denver sports radio shows, it is difficult to pinpoint the reason for the incident being discussed. Most likely it was a weekend filler subject.

Let us not be distracted from your main point, which was that the incident was/is a distraction. You are confusing distraction from a fan's perception as opposed to a what constitutes a distraction to the team. Fans see distractions in all types of things that have no effect on the team. There is no conspiracy theory behind the scenes problem with the organization indicated by this incident.

Lare's picture

Once again, you're stating your opinion as fact. We have no way of knowing what is actually going on behind closed doors at 1265 Lambeau Ave.

Personally, I would disagree with you and I would bet that Moss's behavior in the interviews was definitely addressed by the Packers as it reflects badly on the organization.

WKUPackFan's picture

I did not state an opinion as to whether the incident was addressed or not at 1265. Most likely it was discussed and everyone then moved on.

The question is whether the incident constitutes a continuing distraction within the organization. We can disagree as to whether it does, but it is difficult to imagine that, six weeks from now when training camp starts, anyone will care about or even remember it.

Since '61's picture

ALP - I was unaware that there was a previous incident. Also, I will be the first to admit that I have not been a big fan of Moss or the job he has done for the Packers. I posted above that he could have canceled the press conference rather than present himself the way he did.

Having said that it seems reasonable to me that the Packers would at least know the reason for Moss' behavior before firing him. And for all we know maybe the Packers have considered firing him or maybe they understand why Moss behaved as he did. We'll probably never know.

I do know that organizational change works for some and not for others. I thought that it was a little strange that Moss and Whitt were kept when the Packers made the change at DC. I don't if Pettine chose to keep Moss and Pettine on his own or if he was told they were being retained by the team. In any case it's up to the Packers, specifically Pettine and MM to straighten this out before Moss embarrasses the team. As for now I'm thinking that "this too shall pass" and we're good until TC.

If this were the NY media it would be par for the course and considered perfectly normal as relationships between the press and players/coaches here go from bad to worse day by day. But apparently for the snowflake press in Green Bay it's a big deal. Like I said, Let it Be. Thanks, Since '61

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

I think it's all a mess, '61. We have a GM who can't fire his coach or negotiate contracts, as all three players report to the Team President. We have a defensive coach who was considered for DC, then kept--and like you say, who knows if Pettine really wanted it? Who can tell anything with this mess?

Bottom line, Moss's behavior, especially with two occurrences, would get you, me, and quite nearly everyone posting on this thread, fired. The word I keep coming up with is "bizarre."

I think Pettine will improve things, since it would be impossible not to improve on McCapers. But this is a mess, '61. And this guy really should have been dismissed after this fiasco, regardless of what communications had occurred behind the scenes.

And by the way, it's pretty hard for me to say this, as, unlike many here, I've always liked Moss.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Thanks, Jon. Tough to say if Wilde had any inside read on the situation, but Moss's antics certainly create doubt about his retention being unanimous.

I don't know, but it just seems Murphy has blown up the normal chains of command and catered to egos. I think maybe a head or two should roll, then Gute should be given a real grownup's GM job.

At any rate, don't anyone tell me the smiles and happy faces we'll see at the next camp are legit. No one's dumb enough to buy that.

WKUPackFan's picture

Wilde just conducted an in-depth interview with Pettine that was published in the Wisconsin State Journal yesterday. They went so far as to discuss Pettine's lake trip with his family.

You know what was not even mentioned in that interview? You guessed it, anything about Moss. If Wilde is so bottom hurt about Moss's conduct, if Moss's conduct is such a continuing "distraction", would not Wilde have at least asked Moss's immediate boss about the incident?

Since '61's picture

Jonathan - I read the same article back in January which is why I didn't think that Pettine wanted Moss on his staff and it's possible that MM and/or Gute wanted to retain Moss. Unless this story develops further we'll probably never find out. In any case I hope this is resolved by TC.

Since '61's picture

ALP, whether we define this as a mess, a distraction, a blip, 2 bad days or whatever it can't be allowed to continue and must be resolved by TC.
If it's allowed to go on it will become a problem/distraction for the team. Without further information we can only hope for the best.
Thanks, Since '61

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

All will appear well by TC, but only a complete fool would believe it is.

Seriously, '61, think about the people you know who repeatedly melted down in front of others--especially in an official capacity. Were their issues ever minor blips?

Always remember, when someone stands at that podium, we're seeing the tip, not the iceberg.

Zero chance this is a minor blip. None.

Tundraboy's picture

Structure is a bit of a mess and self inflicted, but I'm looking at it as positive, constructive turmoil. Let it all come to a head this year, where the carry over coaches now finally have to put up or shut up Not a fan of trying to integrate with a new DC on the fly, but by season end we will know clearly who has to go.

Oppy's picture

You are constantly comparing other people's jobs in professional sports to how "Any of us" would be treated in our workplaces over this off season.

Andrew, that's not how the world works. Different industries, different jobs, hell, even different people working under the same roof.. all have different job expectations, different work cultures and norms, varying levels of what they can and can't get away with.

If I had a beer with my lunch and my boss caught wind of it, I would lose my job in a heart beat. Meanwhile, the bartender who served me that beer is playing bar dice with the patrons and having the occasional shot of whiskey, and his boss walks by and says hi, not a care in the world. The bartender across the street constantly has to tell his patrons, sorry, I can't drink on the job, boss's rules. Oh, the outside sales rep who keeps a desk right next to mine? He turns in his bar tab from today's lunch with clients directly to my boss, who doesn't fire him, but rather apologizes he couldn't make it and asks if they still had the seasonal brew on tap.

Outside of federal or state mandates on workplace practices, how the NFL or the Packers handle the actions or inaction of their employees has nothing to do with how any of our employers handle any of us in our workplace.

carlbs's picture

This guy is the *associate head coach*? That's a disgrace. Put your big girl panties on.

Kudos to the reporter who very politely asked him at :40 "Dude, what is it with the temperamental teenager routine?"

White _tornado's picture

I havent seen the video Honestly i could care less. Im sk fed up with watered down "coach speak" id rather they didnt say anything.

" i have a lot of confidence in Bret Hundley, we will just have to work on our pad level, we will get it fixed" blah blah blah

The best interview ever was when Jim Mora was asked about his Saints making the playoffs! "Playoffs? Are you kidding me?"

At least he was honest

BradHTX's picture

"Playoffs? Don't talk to me about - playoffs? You kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game!"

Greatest quote by a coach in the history of the game. Followed closely by: "What the hell's going on out here?"

dobber's picture

THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!!!

Oppy's picture

Wow, Brad, you dodged a bullet there.

Dobber let you off the hook.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Moss was a defensive quality control coach for NO in 2000 and then was promoted to LB coach from 2001 to 2005 at the same time McCarthy was the offensive coordinator for New Orleans.

Moss has been a buddy of MM's for the last 18 years. I suspect that it would take a lot to dislodge him from the staff.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Any coach who would keep Capers will keep anyone.

Another reason we need a GM with true GM authority.

BradHTX's picture

We do. The current power structure is a mess and everyone knows it. But, GMs don't hire/fire assistant coaches. Head coaches do that. And as TGR pointed out, Moss is McCarthy's friend, and it takes many years of catastrophic levels of ineptitude for McCarthy to fire a friend (see Slocum, Shawn).

A coupl'a weird and rude pressers? Pfft. "Have a great weekend, Winny, see ya next week."

Oppy's picture

This is not just about friendship.

The whole reason Moss was given title of "associate head coach" all those years ago, is because it effectively gave MM and the Packers the ability to block Winston Moss from interviewing for any coaching jobs short of Head Coaching positions.

As I understand it, NFL teams can not thwart the upward mobility and advancement of coaches. A coach under contract is free and able to interview for a position with any other team, provided the position is an upward promotion from his current position: An offensive quality control coach could not interview with another team for offensive QC or defensive QC for intstance, but he could interview (and potentially take) a assistant coaching position with another team... By making Moss "associate head coach", the Packers have had the ability to block Winston Moss from interviewing for any position except a Head Coaching job. The Packers have actively blocked Moss from interviewing for D-CO jobs in the past. I believe that now that he interviewed internally for a D-Co position and did not win the job, the Packers may have to allow Winston to interview elsewhere for DC jobs regardless (but I am not positive).

At any rate.. Usually not great for friendship maintenance when your buddy asks (more than once) if he can interview for a different job he really wants, where he'll have an opportunity to grow, and you tell him "No. you're staying put right here."

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

That probably was the reason for the new title. But it shouldn't ruffle the friendship much because GB, like most teams, doesn't allow coaches to interview for other positions, period. And if GB can't prevent it outright, GB makes their assistants wait until after the playoffs end to interview, giving other candidates from non-playoff teams a leg up.

[Note the rules changed in 2008 IIRC. Back then teams had to allow coaches still under contract to interview for positions that were a clear upgrade, but not for lateral moves. That led to teams creating fancy but meaningless titles like Associate Head Coach. Teams usually put position and Coordinators on two-year deals, and at the end of year one of the deal, they offer a one-year extension. Eg, MM turned down the extra guaranteed year in 2004 while he was coordinator which allowed him to move laterally to SF for the 2005 season. SF had to name him HC or let him interview for HC positions under the rules in place at the time.]

The point is that only 4 coaches in GB have left for better jobs since 2005.
OC Jagodzinski left to become HC of Boston College. WR coach Jimmy Robinson left to be Assoc. HC and WR coach in Dallas despite having a year left on his contract and Philbin became HC of Miami. McAdoo let his contract expire so he could leave to be OC for NYG. That's all I can find. And under the rules in force for Philbin at least teams can't block assistants from interviewing for an HC position. Robinson was 58 years old, and wanted to coach for his great friend, Haslett, in Dallas. He only coached for 2 years and then was replaced by Derek Dooley, with Robinson being kicked upstairs as an offensive consultant for Dallas.

Edgar Bennett, Campen, Clements, Moss, McAdoo, Perry, Whitt all have been denied permission to interview for other positions, some multiple times under the new rules. And if GB was still in the playoffs, GB made the coaches wait to interview. Only Robinson had a year left on his contract and still was allowed to interview/leave. Asst. Coaches almost always have guaranteed contracts, so not extending is a big deal for them. Perry interviewed for a DC job in Philly in 2011, but I don't know if he was under contract. I am sure I have missed some examples both ways.

If Moss wanted to leave, the accepted way is to play out one's contract. Moss would have to expect MM to make an exception for him, which would be a big ask.

Oppy's picture

I was unaware the rules had changed. Did they change in 2008, or was that just a reference to the last time you know of that teams couldn't block interviews for higher positions?

kevgk's picture

I love how worked up people are getting as if they think anything will come from this.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Nothing will, in the public eye. Moss will be told he absolutely must rein it in, and everyone else will publicly treat it as a minor thing.

But the major discontent behind the scenes producing such vehemence in Moss? No way that's getting fixed. What we see at the podium is always just the tip, never the iceberg.

Moss is a full-blown cancer now, and I would dismiss him immediately. But they won't. It will all be kept hush-hush, and they'll try to work it out. But odds are high Moss is gone at season's end.

WKUPackFan's picture

Let us examine your opinion that Moss should be fired immediately for this incident, as well as your corresponding theory that anyone doing the same in other organizations would be fired immediately.

The first issue is that professional sports teams are vastly dissimilar to other organizations or businesses. Mistakenly thinking that professional sports teams are just like other businesses leads to all types of inaccurate opinions. Also, professional coaches, especially football coaches, are frequently gruff with the media. No one ever considers such gruffness to be a problem.

To address the second issue, let us hypothetically accept your opinion that the Packers are like any other corporation. That would make MM the CEO or corporate President in this situation, and Moss the Chief Operating Officer or a Vice-President of Operations. Very few corporations are going to have the knee-jerk reaction of firing a valuable, high level officer over this type of incident. Instead, in a competent corporation the PR office will work with the individual, and back-channel communications will occur with the reporter (if needed) to insure no lingering resentment exists.

Again, this incident does not indicate some dysfunction within the organization. The incident occurred, now it is over. It really is not a big deal.

dWs's picture

OMG...Listen to all the whiners. No wonder these coaches act the way they do sometimes. Get over it already.

LambeauPlain's picture

Moss is one of the least effective position coaches on the Packers based on the performance of his guys during his tenure. LBs have been notoriously the weakest position on the team.

The last few years, he has been devoting his time to OLBs, not ILBs. Guess what? The ILBs have improved as the OLBs with 2 #1s, underperform.

Why MM thinks this surley, poor communicator is deserving to be an “associate HC” is an enigma, wrapped in a shroud, surrounded by a mystery.

It is no surprise Moss has been shut out in all his job interviews to become a HC or DC.

I think he is all hot and bothered because Pettine is the the new Defensive Sheriff in town, not him. And perhaps Moss knows his days as MM “Teacher’s Pet” will soon be over when Pettine assumes total control.

Lare's picture

I agree.

WKUPackFan's picture

Now who is stating their opinion as fact? Where are the facts to support the speculation that Moss is "all hot and bothered" about not being the DC?

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