The Lass Word: Revelations From the Darkness
The truth is out there.
By KenLass
Now that the Super Bowl is over, Aaron Rodgers is reportedly headed into his four day darkness retreat. The experience is designed to provide sensory deprivation, which, we are told, can result in enhanced vision, insight and even hallucination. Rodgers is hoping for revelations about what he should do about his future, and what will increase his happiness.
When he emerges from this exploration into his reality, perhaps these are a few of the insights that will be revealed to him:
You have nothing more to prove here.
Your legend in the annals of the Green and Gold is secure. You are the all time franchise leader in touchdown passes, completion percentage and quarterback rating. You have won a Super Bowl. You have been voted the most valuable player in the National Football League four times. You have been a Super Bowl MVP. You have been the author of more iconic moments in Packer history than anyone else in recent memory. There is nothing you can do to become more acknowledged and more appreciated as a great player by Green Bay fans.
It is not in your best interest to stay in Green Bay.
The Packers are not going to win the Super Bowl next year. And you will get the blame. It won’t matter that management made an all out commitment to run it back by dishing out huge contracts to players, including you, who are under performing. It won’t matter that coaches who should be fired are being retained. The team is in for a few years of mediocrity until they can work their way out from under salary cap commitments and dead money that restricts them from acquiring enough talent to be a legitimate contender.
Because of your stature, you will take most all of the heat for this, deserved or not. Your legacy and image here can only be harmed. It would be a shame if your era here ends with hard feelings and an ugly separation, similar to when Brett Favre left.
Your best chance for glory lies somewhere else.
If winning another Super Bowl is what will truly make you happy, your best opportunity is with another team that is built for more immediate success. The Jets have a top five defense and some young, dynamic offensive skill position players. The Dolphins have an attack loaded with stars. The Raiders could reunite you with Davante Adams, who helped you to a series of NFC championship games. If you just want a change of scenery, the Titans, Niners, Saints, Commanders and Patriots would all love to have you and would make you the toast of the town.
If you do stay, you have to be all in.
This is a young offense that will likely get even younger. They need your presence at all voluntary workouts, building timing and chemistry, providing leadership and modeling what it looks like to practice and focus in this league. And you must realize that, in order for a young receiver, such as Samori Toure, to develop and improve, you must actually throw him the ball. Yes, they will run the wrong route and drop a few easy throws, but so do all young pass catchers.
You must be willing to actually run Matt LaFleur’s offense, and stop thinking you have a better idea, or that you must carry the team by yourself. Give the check down receivers a chance, throw the ball away, follow the script.
The front office wants to move on.
Publicly, the Packers must express support for you and claim they want you to stay. They must do this to retain whatever trade value you still might have. But almost daily there are national beat writers who claim they have learned the team is ready to move on. Sometimes you can dismiss such reports as bogus click bait. But the sheer volume of them indicates that where there is smoke, there is fire. Surely you must know that at least some of these reports are being leaked by the front office. It's their way of sending code to the other teams to let them know they are open to trade offers.
You, of all people, would know that sitting on the sidelines for three years is long enough, and the Packers must find out now if Jordan Love is the future. They can't do that if you stay. Because of the way your contract is laid out, they can't cut you, or trade you to a team for whom you don't want to play. But they are hoping you tell them you are open to playing somewhere else. They know the current window has expired.
Aaron, this is your inner voice speaking. Packer Nation loves you and always will, but it’s time to energize and excite another fan base. Peyton Manning did it in Denver. Tom Brady did it in Tampa Bay. It’s your turn. Time to turn the lights back on and proceed with your life.
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__________________________
Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.
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Comments (204)
Packer_Fan
February 13, 2023 at 06:32 am
Yup. Pretty much agree. Ok to move on.
Bitternotsour
February 13, 2023 at 12:41 pm
Remember everyone having a cow last week because we didn't re-sign MVS for 10M plus per season. Take a look at his stat line from yesterday. Zero catches. 1 target (where he ran a bad route). 10 mil.
I bet they cut him.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 13, 2023 at 01:46 pm
They still owe him some guaranteed money so they'll probly keep him for 1 more year. Point taken tho.
Packerpasty
February 13, 2023 at 05:30 pm
as soon as I saw that route run I thought, " I've seen that somewhere from him before"...
NickPerry
February 13, 2023 at 06:37 am
"This is a young offense that will likely get even younger. They need your presence at all voluntary workouts, building timing and chemistry, providing leadership and modeling what it looks like to practice and focus in this league. And you must realize that, in order for a young receiver, such as Samori Toure, to develop and improve, you must actually throw him the ball. Yes, they will run the wrong route and drop a few easy throws, but so do all young pass catchers.
You must be willing to actually run Matt LaFleur’s offense, and stop thinking you have a better idea, or that you must carry the team by yourself. Give the check down receivers a chance, throw the ball away, follow the script."
WOW... I can't think of a better few paragraphs that sum up Rodgers approach to Quarterbacking the Green Bay Packers the last few seasons especially. Mahomes, Brees, Manning, all the great ones have invited young players to join them for a few weeks at some spot and practice, getting to know each other prior to the start of TC and OTAs. No coaches, no refs, just the WR's, TE's, and ANYONE else who cared to join them to get a head start. Rodgers has never done anything like this. The arrogance in which Rodgers views OTAs is sickening IMO. These sessions aren't even meant to to get better, not really, but BUILD a chemistry and relationship with these youngsters, but Rodgers wants no part of them. Instead he'd rather give them a death stare when they do something wrong or ignore them for WEEKS which we've all seen for years.
Come out of the "Darkness" Aaron and take the out the Packers have afforded you. I will ALWAYS appreciate Aaron Rodgers the QB. You've given me countless moments of happiness watching your greatness. But ALL good things come to an end and the Packers aren't ready to compete for a SB. Not in 2023 and probably 2024. You could go to the Jets and win. Robert Saleh is a hell of a HC. He's built a defense ready to win NOW. He's got some excellent young weapons on offense. If it's a SB you want you need to leave.
BradHTX
February 13, 2023 at 07:28 am
You’ve nailed it as usual, NP (and Ken, as well). As a player Rodgers is (or was) beyond compare for his physical skills. As a tactician on the field, he is (again, or was) brilliant. But as a leader of men, he is sorely lacking.
And that more than anything is why his tenure in Green Bay will end with only one ring, and he will be remembered as a gifted player who sadly never reached his full potential with this team. Not all of that is on him; the team didn’t always give him all the help it could have. Sometimes other players’ mistakes doomed the team’s chances. Coaches and coordinators could have been changed sooner. But he is absolutely complicit in his single ring, for his practice decisions and his play on the field when it mattered most.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 07:33 am
"But as a leader of men, he is sorely lacking."
Just curious, in what ways is he lacking?
croatpackfan
February 13, 2023 at 07:50 am
On several points. I chose to give you 2.
1. Ignoring young players and rookies when they join the team. Expecting from young persons to knows immediatelly all what he learned by years of playing at highest level.
2. Publicly trashing players for theirs and his mistakes, not doing that in private conversation. Helping young players by advice and by pointing what they did wrong and how to overcome mistakes and do the right things next time.
If you'll mention that 2nd one is not his job, I'm giving you immediate answer - that is how true lider of the team should do. To every player, not just to ones he likes.
BradHTX
February 13, 2023 at 08:02 am
Exactly.
My wife for many years supported the CIO of an international firm who was a terrific leader. She was actively engaged in her people’s professional development. She was very tough (but fair) on them in private. In meetings outside her department, she had their back: she took full responsibility for everything, including mistakes they had made, and then she addressed them in private, in a way that encouraged their corrective action rather than humiliating them.
In other words, she was pretty much the polar opposite of the way Rodgers has conducted himself for about a decade now.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 13, 2023 at 01:49 pm
That sounds like leadership to me.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 08:10 am
1. Who has he ignored?
2. Who has he publicly trashed? Do we know if he talked to those players behind the scenes?
jurp
February 13, 2023 at 09:34 am
Who has he ignored? What, you haven't been watching the Packers for the last three years (or more)? EVERY YOUNG WIDE RECEIVER. You know, the guys he claims he needs to "trust" before he'll throw them the ball? Yeah, those guys.
croatpackfan
February 13, 2023 at 10:03 am
jurp, I gave up to give arguments. When someone has preconceived notion, no arguments matters.
Watson drop the ball on the first pass in his career as pro, and was targeted not once in that game. Than, luckily for him, he got injury. Toure scored TD on single pass and never ever be targeted again till the end of the season where he had few targets, but not on spot (I'm talking about ACR targets!). How many times he targeted Doubs? Very rarely, because he dropped few passes, what was not always on Doubs. How many times ACR targeted Deguara? Jordan Love targeted him and he caught all of the throws to him, turn downfield and pick some YAC. Never from ACR. He avoid OTAS, minicamp and other activities where he may help youngster to overcome fear of playing with Packers "legend" and play more smoothly when season started.
Remember that on PMS Pat or someone else from the crew asked ACR about Romeo Doubs comment that he never hanging out with them after the game or in free time. They expected and wish that. ACR said that he has nothing to talk with them as he is 40 and they are to young for him. What about to talk with his teammates about football? Oh, he didn't even have one thought about that possibility. They did not expect him to teach them about purpose of life or how wonderful is tea from ayahuasca, or to explain them astrological charts or to call them to join him in dark room for 4 days or about colon cleansing. They wanted to talk with him about football. How I know that? They want to be better, they are killing themselves in practices and trying to achieve status of very good to excellent players. Maybe some 18 years pro can help them in that? No, he has nothing to say to them.
ACR said that he is always on organized team meetings and dinners/meals. Wow. How good he is. He is not having lunch or dinner by himself...
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 10:31 am
I'm legitimately asking questions. I'm not arguing. Just asking questions.
Not to disparage you, but what you said "Watson drop the ball on the first pass in his career as pro, and was targeted not once in that game", well actually he was targeted 4 times in that game. He caught 2 passes.
Doubs was targeted 67 times on the year, and he missed 4 games. (basically 5 because he got hurt on the first play of the Lions game).
The WR's targeted them most were Lazard with 100. Jones 72, Tonyan with 67, Doubs with 67, Watson with 65, Cobb with 50.
So let me ask how did he not target Watson and Doubs?
croatpackfan
February 13, 2023 at 10:38 am
How many times did he targeted Toure? After he scored TD?
And what about Doubs remark mentioned on PMS?
Is he really so good with his young WR?
He is targeting guys when he has no other option, not because he is willing to do. Last 2 seasons, especially last one, at the snap he is decide to which player he is willing to throw and than he is focused on that player (Watson, Lazard, Cobb, Jones etc) until it is to late, when that player is not open to change the target, than it come sack or unprecise pass, or pass out the field. Go, watch again Packers games from the last season. You ask yourself why the offense is not effective? Because opponent DCs noticed his behavior and almost always take away that primary target. Not to mention of his stubbornness to throw in the middle of the field. It makes opponent D easier to defend against him. What else you want me to say. Go, and watch the games again and again. You'll find your answers... Yes there was some drops from players on his passes, but 2/3rd of his passes was not on necessary spot. It is on him!
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 11:10 am
Maybe he didn't target Toure because maybe Toure wasn't running the right routes. That was talked about during the season.
Here is the other thing. We can talk about targets and whatnot. But until we know what the play call was, what the routes were supposed to be ran, what the routes ran actually were, what the progressions were of those routes, if there were options in the routes ran and if they were ran correctly, we don't know anything. Sorry but its easy to criticize, but we don't know crap.
The remarks Doubs made? Are you referring to when Doubs said the he didn't hang out with Rodgers away from Lambeau? My question to this is how many times did Tom Brady have his rookie WR's over to his house? How many times did Brett Favre have Greg Jennings over at his house when Greg was a rookie? For whatever reason everyone wants to just attack Rodgers for everything even though he isn't much different then other QB's of his age.
Rodgers is no different then most QB's. When the game is on the line you go with who you trust the most. its just the way it is. And lets not forget that one of the guys he tried targeting was Davante Adams. The best WR in the league.
MainePackFan
February 13, 2023 at 11:45 am
I do agree with this quote by croat:
"jurp, I gave up to give arguments. When someone has preconceived notion, no arguments matters."
Hard to disagree with that. We see it every day on both sides of the argument, though I'm pretty sure that self revelation was not croat's intention :)
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 11:59 am
lol fair point.
I try to at least back up what I say with stats and facts. Sometimes I say what I feel, but I try to be realistic about stuff I say.
MainePackFan
February 13, 2023 at 12:14 pm
I do too, and I always at least try to read posts with an open mind. Unfortunately, I'm guilty of not always accomplishing that endeavor :)
croatpackfan
February 13, 2023 at 03:02 pm
And maybe Toure run right routes, but ACR had not and have not "trust" in him. Is that possibility.
But your conclusion is that Toure did not run right routes. Wow. It must not be ACR. He is without any flow. He is so nice that he is the best person in the whole universe.
Thank you. Your arguments are that someone had to be guilty, not ACR. Are you try to find did Toure runs wrong routes, or your presumption is that ACR is mistake free and somebody else must be wrong.
Sorry, by lot if indicators from past important games shows that ACR always plays the worst way possible in very important games. Even when he was QB of the TEAM THAT WON SB he played probably the worst game of the season, better to say he played second worst game of the season (the worst game of the season came at Chicago in NFCCG that season).
2014 vs Seattle he got 7 TO from D and ST in Seattle territory. He had badly injured Shermann on the CB but never tried in second half to target receiver on Sherman side. He scored 1 TD. All other points came from FGs. More to say they got 16:0 result in the 1st half, still the ofense leading by ACR put only 3 FGs for the whole 2nd half.
I hope that you remember last 2 NFCCG Packers lost. I both ACR played not good, And do not forget lost at Atlanta vs Falcons. He has 1-4 record in NFCCG in his career.
Was that losses all on team? While Bostick made idiotic play that allows Seattle to go to over time, that game should not be even close if ACR played well. Sh*t, he threw INT from 12 yards out of red zone.
Same last season in divisional round. Many blamed ST for that 9ers TD. But who dig the special team deep in their red zone? ACR.
So stop finding excuses for ACR through "team did not help him". He was and is the guy who never helped team in important games and he is paid as one who can win alone.
rememberWhitehurst
February 13, 2023 at 12:59 pm
Samari Toure played 112 snaps from scrimmage all year...6 1/2 per game. How many targets do you want him to get in his 6 1/2 snaps? Doubs was targeted on 12.7% of his snaps, more than Lazard or Aaron Jones, and just behind Randall Cobb's 13.5%.
Packerpasty
February 13, 2023 at 05:35 pm
ah come on...Toure was not good, didn't run the routes correctly, just didn't have it..the WR corp played "ok" this past season, often times no one was open...but I guess that does not matter, its all AR's fault...I hope he goes somewhere so we don't have to listen to this bullshit again next year...you guys will dump on Gutes and Love if he doesn't play like an all pro..
croatpackfan
February 13, 2023 at 03:06 pm
And maybe Toure run right routes, but ACR had not and have not "trust" in him. Is that pissibility.
But your conclusion is that Toure did not run right routes. Wow. It must not be ACR. He is without any flow. He is so nice that he is the best person in the whole universe.
Thank you. Your arguments are that someone had to be guilty, not ACR. Are you try to find did Toure runs wrong routes, or your presumption is that ACR is mistake free and somebody else must be wrong.
Sorry, by lot if indicators from past important games shows that ACR always plays the worst way possible in very important games. Even when he was QB of the TEAM THAT WON SB he played probably the worst game of the season, better to say he played second worst game of the season (the worst game of the season came at Chicago in NFCCG that season).
2014 vs Seattle he got 7 TO from D and ST in Seattle territory. He had badly injured Shermann on the CB but never tried in second half to target receiver on Sherman side. He scored 1 TD. All other points came from FGs. More to say they got 16:0 result in the 1st half, still the ofense leading by ACR put only 3 FGs for the whole 2nd half.
I hope that you remember last 2 NFCCG Packers lost. I both ACR played not good, And do not forget lost at Atlanta vs Falcons. He has 1-4 record in NFCCG in his career.
Was that losses all on team? While Bostick made idiotic play that allows Seattle to go to over time, that game should not be even close if ACR played well. Sh*t, he threw INT from 12 yards out of red zone.
Same last season in divisional round. Many blamed ST for that 9ers TD. But who dig the special team deep in their red zone? ACR.
So stop finding excuses for ACR through "team did not help him". He was and is the guy who never helped team in important games and he is paid as one who can win alone.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 10:15 am
Ignored in what way? On the field? Off the field where?
I'm asking questions.
Weird to say that he ignored the young WR's when the very first play of the season went to his Rookie WR.
Watson and Doubs had very good rookie years. I don't think he ignored them too much.
dobber
February 13, 2023 at 10:20 am
Yeah, but he didn't start feeding the ball to Watson until Watkins was cut and Doubs/Cobb were both hurt.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 10:36 am
That is the narrative isn't it.
rememberWhitehurst
February 13, 2023 at 01:04 pm
Which just happens to coincide with when Watson started to actually get healthy and get snaps, and with when he was getting a better grasp of the offense after coming from a very limited college scheme.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 13, 2023 at 02:07 pm
RC, here's a story from 2018. During the game vs the Patriots that year, there was a play where Mccarthy told EQ to run a route a certain way right before he went onto the field. In the huddle, Rodgers told him to do something different. Fearing the wrath of his head coach more (as it should be) he did what Mccarthy told him to. Rodgers didnt throw him to another time the rest of the game despite being open a handful of times in a game they probably should have won. And thats just one example of many. See Jermichael Finley, Greg Jennings, Christian Watson, etc. for further details. Rodgers takes his teammates' mistakes or perceived slights personally and punishes them like the child that he is. That is the complete opposite of leadership. I really dont understand how people choose to be oblivious to this stuff. Its the game within the game and hes awful at it. Nobody whos serious about winning behaves like that. Besides the lack of leadership, its a flat out lack of professionalism. Would any of us get away with the shit he does at our jobs? Nope. But because he has the golden arm he should be treated differently? That enablist mindset is exactly how this monster was created. As long as he produced people ignored it. Well that bill came due some time ago and this team continues to pay dearly for it. There was a time where people were shamed by society for acting like clowns. Now theyre celebrated.
Leatherhead
February 13, 2023 at 02:54 pm
When has he led us to victory in a big game?
mrtundra
February 13, 2023 at 08:03 am
On the money NP! I also feel that Rodgers not participating in voluntary workouts was BS, on Rodgers' part. How can he expect to have any kind of chemistry, with rookies, when he doesn't want to be at the workouts where they learn the offense? Love was not afraid to throw to his rookie WRs. He did throw a TD pass to Toure, as well. I think Love would do just fine as our starting QB. It's time to move on. Thanks for all the great memories, Aaron Rodgers. We'll always appreciate how great you were, leading the Packers, but it is time to move on.
Savage57
February 13, 2023 at 06:41 am
This article should have found its way to Murphykunst's desk a year ago.
mnbadger
February 13, 2023 at 12:23 pm
. . . perhaps two years ago, before the new contract.
Ken, this is the best article of yours that I've seen, thank you.
GPG!
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 13, 2023 at 02:09 pm
I can tell you Murphy received a most angry email from me this time last year. Of course he didnt publish it to his Murphy Takes 5 fluff operation.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 14, 2023 at 05:16 am
LOL. Well, after he redacted out the expletives, would there have been anything left to publish?
stockholder
February 13, 2023 at 06:49 am
Rodgers doesn’t have anything more to prove here.
He’s been Great.
Which is why I still want him back
Because: The Packers aren’t going to win the super-Bowl?
Thats just plain negative thinking. Loser talk.
And if we're going to Lose.
Its the blame game that separates.
No FA or money is going to change that.
So that can’t be part of the argument.
And Time heals all wounds.
But my biggest anger is comparing our
Present roster. To those others.
It’s not Rodgers Fault. He didn’t draft Love.
And shouldn’t the FO blame themselves for that.
I saw QBs that could run last night.
And if Love is the future. We're headed for Hell.
You can’t point the finger at Rodgers!!
Only to get people off managements back.
You go with what you have. And pray!
Energizing another fan base isn’t a given.
Brett Favre never won a Super Bowl after
He left.
If I’m Rodgers I’d tell you right out.
Go blow smoke up, some other ass.
A contract is a contract.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 07:54 am
“I saw QBs that could run last night.
And if Love is the future. We're headed for Hell.”
You do know that Love can run? In any case, Etling can if that’s your benchmark.
Last night I saw two offenses that were much more inventive and varied than LaFleur’s. It’s by no means all on Rodgers, but it seems you also saw that the ability to improvise and pace at which it occurred surpassed Rodgers. Indeed it reminded me of him a decade ago.
The biggest take away for me was how stale LaFleur’s offensive design has become in comparison and the difference in how both teams used their pieces and not just stars. The second take away was how much Rodgers has slowed comparatively to the current elite and to his prior years.
I don’t know about the Eagles, but Kansas look like they have a shot to keep this running. To get to their level we need a new coach and new blood and all the bumps on that road.
mnbadger
February 13, 2023 at 12:25 pm
KC also had a sure tackling defense. They played really well just to hold the eagles to 35. JB defenseless would have been a turnstile.
GPG!
mrtundra
February 13, 2023 at 08:24 am
If Rodgers stays in GB, we can expect the same kind of season we had this past season. Maybe, and I mean maybe, we get to .500. If we should happen to out perform my expectations, we most likely will be one and done, if we make the playoffs. We have talent on this team, but that talent resides in the players and not in the coaches. Tell me that Barry will change his attitude about our defense playing soft coverage on 3rd and short. Tell me Rodgers follows MLF's game plan, without changing the play. Tell me Rodgers' accuracy improves so much, that he can actually hit a receiver, in stride, for a big gain, instead of throwing the ball to a wide open defender. If Rodgers stays, nothing will change for this team. It's time for Love to be our QB. He's had several years behind Rodgers and has played well, when he had to come into the game. Sure, there will be some rough spots, but we have those now, with the almighty Rodgers, as our QB. As far as Brett Favre goes, he only won one Super Bowl as a Packer. He threw away the 2nd Super Bowl he was in, versus Denver, IMO, on purpose, to give Elway a ring. Favre was past his prime when he went to Minnesota, but he wasn't done throwing interceptions, as he showed vikings fans. From Favre to Rodgers and now from Rodgers to Love. Let's move on to Love. It's time.
Oppy
February 13, 2023 at 08:57 am
"A contract is a contract."
There's been nothing reported that either Rodgers or the Packers have made any overtures that would constitute breach of contract. at all. zero. zilch.
If you don't like that NFL contracts aren't protected, you should probably bring it up with the NFLPA, who negotiate the terms their contracts are subject to.
Side note, you're saying this team's talent pales in comparison to years past, so it's not Rodgers' "fault". Well, who's fault was it when Rodgers had those more talented rosters? Let me guess.. anybody but Rodgers.
So if the Packers couldn't win more SB's with more talented rosters built around AR's much smaller contract (as a percentage of total salary cap), what makes you think we can win a SB with an older, diminishing Rodgers with a much larger contract that will prevent building a similar or stronger roster around him?
dobber
February 13, 2023 at 10:05 am
Remember that in this bizarro reality, the contract is only a contract when it comes to a few specific contractees....
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 10:35 am
A contract is a sieve. It established only what is written expressly and not incorporated by its acknowledgment of the CBA and relevant law. If it’s not in there it doesn’t exist. The parties are free to agree to as many protections as they wish to. Each comes at a price in reality, but no contractee who has negotiating power (both here did) can complain if they did not agree to protect themselves against foreseeable circumstances, such as a trade or underperformance against expectations.
I suppose they could fire their lawyers for malpractice (incompetence) or their lead negotiators. Other than that they got what they bargained for freely and here equally, and the consequences fall on them if they did so incompetently. I think both sides may have cause to reproach themselves on this one. Ball and Murphy should be on the hot seat and potentially Rodgers Agent as well.
jurp
February 13, 2023 at 09:41 am
Well, after a spate of relatively readable posts, we now have a Bonkers Scale 9 to deal with. i won't bother dissecting this one because others have weighed in already and really, why bother? But I will address this one little point:
"The Packers aren’t going to win the super-Bowl?
Thats just plain negative thinking. Loser talk."
No, that's REALITY talk, not loser talk,
stock, you remind me of a guy on my freshman year dorm floor a lifetime ago. His name was Chuck and if his team screwed up and the network showed a replay of the screw-up, he always yelled at the replay, trying to get the outcome to be different: "No, don't throw it to the cornerback this time!"
You really need to accept that at some point the Packers will have a non-white quarterback.
croatpackfan
February 13, 2023 at 10:12 am
Oh, thank you jurp. I have revelation. I'm not racist, I never thought about that aspect. Now I understand why stockholder is so against Jordan Love.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 11:01 am
Stockholders motivations are idiosyncratic to a degree that I think it’s impossible to determine them. As such, I think it is not appropriate to brand him a racist. However eclectic, he’s free to express himself and remain free of such allegations that unless he makes a clearly racial statement. I have not seen one I think rises to that from him. Unless others have, I think we should move on rapidly.
jont
February 13, 2023 at 11:55 am
"You really need to accept that at some point the Packers will have a non-white quarterback"
Will you ever let this go?
You are the only person on this site who sees a black man when looking at Jordan Love. Everyone here except you sees a Green Bay Packer, and everyone here-- even those who think Rodgers still has it-- would absolutely love it to see Jordan Love succeed.
Oppy
February 13, 2023 at 03:15 pm
Wouldn't that be a great world to live in, but unfortunately, that's not reality.
I don't think stockholder has made any comments that would suggest his seemingly anti-Love stance has anything to do with race, but it would be wildly disingenuous to make a claim that there is not a percentage of football fans who are indeed racists, as silly and profoundly sad as that is to say in 2023.
jont
February 14, 2023 at 03:08 pm
👍
No doubt. Not a perfect world, but maybe the 30 or 40 of us here can play nice.
13TimeChamps
February 14, 2023 at 03:21 pm
There is another poster on here...WildBill I think? but not sure.
Anyway, whoever it is, he keeps posting Love=Kizer 2.0 and not in complimentary way. I've asked him several times what, other than the color of their skin, makes him think of Deshone Kizer when he thinks of Jordan Love. Still waiting for an answer, but he continues to post it.
HawkPacker
February 13, 2023 at 10:34 am
'It’s not Rodgers Fault. He didn’t draft Love.
And shouldn’t the FO blame themselves for that.'
It kind of is Rodgers' fault that they drafted Love. If he wouldn't have played like dog shit the two previous years, they may have drafted a receiver or someone else and not Love.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 13, 2023 at 02:14 pm
His decline in play wasnt the only reason they drafted Love. He was pulling the same passive aggressive nonsense back then, just not as publicly. Front office has been walking on eggshells with him for nearly a decade. Drafting Love was likely a relief for them and it showed with Gute and Lafleur's gigantic smiles the moment Love was announced as their pick.
stockholder
February 13, 2023 at 11:04 am
Ok =- Here's your Reply.
CW- 1. QBs that run. - Pocket awareness?
KC couldn't stop the Hurt QB sneaks.Or Runs!
McHomes is faster and throws on the "run".
Your just going to get a pocket passer Hurt now.
Next: mr-a
Rodgers vs Love
BETTER YET= EXPERIENCE VS YOUTH
Oh let's forget about the thumb injury.
And the play-off run. It’s Not Time.
It’s you thinking the grass is greener on the side.
That You have another MVP in the wings.
Next:O-Y
The contract is a bargain in good Faith.
Rodgers WORD is better than managements Lies.
Nothing was said about a breach.
Next: j-p
Your Assumptions are Bonkers.
The Reality = Assumptions by the author and yours.
Next: HP
Wrong. Speculation equals one thing.
Failure in the draft!
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 11:17 am
Your answers are the written equivalent of an MC Escher landscape.
stockholder
February 13, 2023 at 11:36 am
Really? -
I wanted to keep to the article and not the super-bowl.
But Hurts did pass for over 300 yds last night.
The Defense of Philly didn't stop KC.
It's always been said, Defense wins championships.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 06:30 pm
Neither D really stopped anyone, though Burton had a heck of a game for the Chiefs. Ultimately a fumble and a horribly low hangtime line drive punt that gave the opportunity for a critical return were probably the biggest differences.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 13, 2023 at 02:11 pm
Its not loser talk, its reality. You're welcome to join us anytime.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 06:54 am
Maybe he will come out realizing a few other things as well.
- This offense is about to explode with Watson and Doubs going into year 2.
Watson is a star in the making. His size and speed are very rare. His ability to just out run people makes him special. His size makes him special. After missing the majority of training camp and then missing some time in the season, once he got going, it was hard to stop him.
Doubs was emerging as our number 1 WR until he got hurt. He is poised for a breakout year 2 along with Watson.
Also, the OL should be returning to its better version. Jones is a stud in the backfield. They just need another TE and WR and the offense will be great!
- While a loud selection of Packer fans want Rodgers gone, there is still a selection of fans that wants Rodgers back.
Everything in headlines and articles talks about Rodgers needs to leave or should leave or will be leaving. There aren't a lot of articles that talk about him coming back. Yet there are people that want him to come back. Some fans want to see Rodgers retire as a Packer. Some want to see him finish what he started in GB. Some want to see him go out like John Elway.
- Chip on the shoulder gets bigger.
That chip on Rodgers shoulder has always been pretty big. He has talked about that for a long time. All of these articles and people telling Rodgers that he shouldn't be in GB can only add to that chip. The question is what chip on his shoulder will be better. The one wanting to come back to piss people off more, or to go to another team, and lead them to a super bowl. Regardless of where Rodgers plays, hopefully it leads him to a super bowl.
Savage57
February 13, 2023 at 07:54 am
The problem with Rodgers in the nadir of his career is his primary focus has become him, not the team.
He's more interested in spirituality, books, media presence, MVP awards and amateur golf trophies than he is Lombardi's. I don't begrudge him any of that, but that's not what he's being paid extremely handsomely to do.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 08:08 am
Have to always love it when a football player has a life outside of football, that is always brought up when its a down year or the team doesn't win the Super Bowl.
Its like when media starts reporting that Rodgers is dating some girl and the team loses, fans lose their shit and blame said girl, for distracting Rodgers and whatnot.
dobber
February 13, 2023 at 09:27 am
Yeah, in this case, I don't have a problem with many of those things. Many NFL players appear in golf pro-ams or fishing/hunting shows or playing Jeopardy! or any number of those kinds of public things in the off-season. Good for them, and I hope they have a great time. Many of them are super active in charities (and ARod has his, too) or other philanthropic ventures--in many cases, that's where the pro-am/Jeopardy! money goes. Even better!
As for the spirituality thing, I have 8 brothers and sisters, and the variability in what people subscribe to and believe in for that limited data set when we had similar upbringings tells you that we should be more tolerant of others and their "wacky shit". It makes it easy to poke at them, but it tells you that we're all wired differently--and in 12's case, it's **mostly** harmless.
...until you get to his predilections with regard to the team and team-building (lack of participation in off-season activities, for example; trolling mamagement; etc.). I couldn't agree more with this article. It hits home with where the Packers are and where 12 needs to be WRT a return or moving on. Pretty objectively stated. Thanks, Ken.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 11:04 am
I agree with this wholeheartedly
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 11:05 am
Duplicate-unintended emphasis.
Ferrari-Driver
February 13, 2023 at 06:09 pm
dobber, well stated.
Packerpasty
February 13, 2023 at 05:40 pm
exactly..Brady has admitted that he has no life after football and he says he'll have a rough go of it for awhile..football ruined his marriage and now he will be up in the booth I bet he will not be good up there but everyone will adore him...
Tundraboy
February 13, 2023 at 11:37 am
Can't disagree. And playing for a coach he doesn't really respect or feel he needs to is toxic.
Contrast of Reid/ Mahomes versus MLF and Rodgers couldn't be greater.
jannesbjornson
February 13, 2023 at 02:37 pm
What would the Reid/Trubitsky combo look like? The Bears should receive a SB ring for blowing the draft pick on Mitch.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 06:24 pm
I want to say: short lived. Though in truth I wonder what Trubisky might have been had he landed there.
jannesbjornson
February 13, 2023 at 07:55 pm
He probably would have kept Smith.
BA4Packers
February 13, 2023 at 08:17 am
I vote Rodgers gets traded but I also believe that if he stays there is a path for team to make run in the playoffs…be it a narrow path.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 08:40 am
Thats fair.
I don't think the path is that narrow honestly. The OL will be better. Watson and Doubs will be better. We have the RB's. We just need a few more receiving options that can make a difference. WR and TE need some attention.
For example if we could add another field stretching WR, to go with Watson, our offense instantly looks different. Look at the difference Watson made once he came on. That changed our offense. We get another guy with deep speed, it will really open up our offense. Also it will mean we will always have a field stretcher on the field.
Oppy
February 13, 2023 at 08:59 am
The argument that everyone around Rodgers will be better is great, but nobody seems to be concerned with Rodgers being better.
For three quarters in the 2021 NFC Championship game, Rodgers needed to be better.
Do you think Rodgers will be better each year? Or do you think the most we can really hope for is Rodgers doesn't deteriorate?
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 09:13 am
It’s also misleading. If we lose talent to manage our cap then that weighs against improvement. Developing players don’t always do so or do not do so smoothly: for every up there may be a down. Typically, 3 years development is cited before the peak years start. And then there is depth: in a highly cap constrained environment, depth tends to get thinner not deeper.
History would suggest that, the cast around Rodgers will be a little better or a little worse next year—maybe Watson or someone tips the balance by really standing out as a star, if they remain healthy, but that’s not a probability.
This team has all the hallmarks of one that should be looking to 2024 and 2025 and needs to have cap to fill the inevitable holes through injury or drop off on top of that or to go get a premium difference maker to get you over the hump.
That is not happening with Rodgers contract and the reality is that Rodgers level of play is at best similar to that of the last couple of years, if we are optimistic, to last year if only mildly so, or gradually declines just as others start to peak. The worst case is injury. His contract will be guaranteed for that next year I believe.
For all the wishful thinking, the assumption that we will be noticeably better is not inevitable or likely to be of a particularly noticeable magnitude and will come at a cost of extended impotence in FA.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 09:31 am
"That is not happening with Rodgers contract and the reality is that Rodgers level of play is at best similar to that of the last couple of years,"
You mean when he was MVP 2 years in a row?
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 09:33 am
Did it happen then? Was our roster then weaker than now? Were we less well off for cap flexibility? Is Rodgers still 37?
This kind of comment essentially speaks to me of the sterility of the ground you are trying to nurture seeds of hope from. It sounds good, reassuring, but there nothing to sustain it.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 10:11 am
Ok, so we might as well strip him of the MVP award then. Wow. this is nuts.
Packerpasty
February 13, 2023 at 05:48 pm
thats because the hatred runs so deep that it does seem like this whole site is "nuts"...
dobber
February 13, 2023 at 09:36 am
Arguably two of the weakest MVP fields in recent memory.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 09:48 am
Definitely in 2021. The first one was legitimate, though it didn’t carry us to the real objective even then.
dobber
February 13, 2023 at 10:06 am
Granted.
croatpackfan
February 13, 2023 at 03:16 pm
Coldworld, Davante Adams did all dirty job for him. He is incredible receiver. He has enormous catching radius. Lot of bad throws Davante made look like throws on target. He was very often in need to slow to wait for the pass or to extend unbeliveaby to catch overthrown passes.
I agree with you that those 2 MVPs are the weakest one I know. But, to be honest I seriously following football for 15 years. So, there might be also weaker ones before me joined to follow NFL.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 10:12 am
So we should strip him of the awards?
Since you and Coldworld are saying its meaningless, might as well say just strip him of the award.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 10:25 am
What the hell does an MVP have to do with our performance next season anyway? We didn’t win a championship in those seasons and we can’t turn the clock back and replay them. You are missing the point. If we couldn’t win when he was MVP and had a better roster that actually argues against your whole. The fact that he was MVP is no argument for 2023 anyway.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 10:46 am
You said his play at best is at the level of the last few years. He won the MVP 2 years in a row. That is the point I brought up. His level of play was that he won 2 mvp's in a row.
I don't get what we are arguing about.
crayzpackfan
February 13, 2023 at 01:09 pm
Good post Coldworld. Seriously though, my main reason last year for moving on was to make the rebuild that much easier by gaining players and picks. This year? Jesus! I just want GB to get their SC down by releasing Rodgers. They're paying for a 15 year aged cheddar while getting back a can of Easy Cheese and a box Wheat Thins. The finding of reality in the FO truly needs discovery. Mark Murphy has left a larger gap between GB and the rest of the league than the gap in his teeth.
Leatherhead
February 13, 2023 at 09:48 am
Oppy....Rodgers isn't going to be here. Relax. And we are going to be better next year.
Oppy
February 13, 2023 at 03:24 pm
As i've stated prior, Leatherhead, I'd love to believe that's true, but then, all the writing was on the wall for the Packers to move on from Rodgers before the 2021 season got underway.. and then the shit show just got worse.
Until the Packers FO do the deed, I won't put any faith that they'll show the fortitude to pull the trigger in the possible face of a PR back lash due to a vindictive Rodgers and a collective NFL media that simply couldn't fathom how any team could possibly want to move on from a HoF QB before -he- wants to go.
MainePackFan
February 13, 2023 at 09:13 am
"The OL will be better."
This is the biggest reason why I think the Packers offense will improve dramatically in 2023. The addition of another field stretching WR and a solid TE are needed but that only helps if the OL returns to a preinjury level of consistency and continuity . If Bahk and Jenkins are back to full strength and Myers can make the jump in year 3, with some combination of Runyan, Yosh or Tom, I think we have the makings of a very solid OL.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 10:09 am
I agree. I could see them looking to replace Runyan, although he is a solid starter. RT is the biggest question. But I feel like Tom could be our starting RT. Also Caleb Jones and/or Walker should be considered as possible options at RT as well.
Once they made the switch on the OL and Bakhtiari was back, the OL settled in really well. With him and Jenkins another year from the significant injuries, they will be even better.
jannesbjornson
February 13, 2023 at 10:30 am
Draft the RT.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 11:21 am
I don't think we have to draft the RT. Maybe they will, but I really like Tom as the first option for RT.
Thats just my opinion though.
stockholder
February 13, 2023 at 12:10 pm
IMO - You're right.
If the re-build has started. RT works.
Wolf said CBs and Ots.
Think what happened when they drafted Bulaga.
jannesbjornson
February 13, 2023 at 02:58 pm
The OTs have to be blue chips. The big money goes to the QBs. They have to be shielded. The inside of the O line is on LaFleur's lack of an inside power running game. The inside zones are crashed by the opponents stunt schemes. I'm now leaning Schmitz somewhere in Rd two.
MainePackFan
February 13, 2023 at 10:35 am
I'm hoping Sean Rhyan doesn't turn out to be a bust. I really thought they had something with him.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 10:51 am
He’s obviously got some maturing to do. I wonder now if the reason for his invisibility was in part due to the team knowing what was in the works or similar immaturity in his approach to the league. It’s on him to show he gets it and belongs now, since he was not cut it looks like they have some hope—though that could yet happen. I’d see him as an extra draft pick this year but one with a lower draft round status in terms of inside track. If I were him I’d be killing it in the off season training program once it starts.
MainePackFan
February 13, 2023 at 11:26 am
"If I were him I’d be killing it in the off season training program once it starts."
If he isn't, that will tell us what we have unfortunately. NFL= Not For Long for a reason.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 11:22 am
Hopefully not. Hopefully his rookie year will be a learning step for him. Sometimes players need that coming into the league.
MainePackFan
February 13, 2023 at 11:31 am
Hopefully the immaturity shown by he and Quay has been addressed by the veterans in their respective rooms. Things are generally forgotten when young players learn from their mistakes.
jannesbjornson
February 13, 2023 at 11:42 am
The wrong picks.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 06:19 pm
Favre came back pretty well, fortunately with us. They wouldn’t be the first NFL players that turned themselves around. No guarantees but not yet the wrong picks.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 13, 2023 at 02:16 pm
None of that guarantees that Rodgers will be better, and if hes not, none of it will matter cuz this team wont go anywhere.
dobber
February 13, 2023 at 09:34 am
I tend to agree that the path is there, but it requires significant improvement from many of the guys already in the room, probably an impact rookie or over-his-head year from a dustbin free agent or two, and for some coaches to change their stripes. While players--especially young ones--might make a significant leap, philosophical or strategic changes from established coaches are hard.
They'll likely need a quick return from 52 and remarkable team health on its two-deep, too.
The path might be there, but you're right: there's not much room to stray.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 09:50 am
It is unlikely that Gary will be at his best next year. History suggests that at his position it will be 2024 before he’s truly back to where he was physically. I hope he can beat the ACL curve, but that’s one of the worst positions to be hopeful of that for.
dobber
February 13, 2023 at 10:12 am
Yup...and that's part of the point. Every team has a path to the title...but the number and likelihood of "things that need to go right" that need to be invoked in order for that team to get there tells you how far away said team really is.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 10:28 am
This path is so narrow as to be illusory. No need to hint. It’s better to just be forthright. Unless that is, one has an Infinite Improbability Drive hanging around.
fastmoving
February 13, 2023 at 03:21 pm
AR is the worst leader you can find. Never made someone better, besides his inner circle. Never saw a top QB who refused to use his weapons because of trust issues. We all know its just a code that he wants only throw to his buddies.
The eyerolling, the drama gesture. The worst boddy speaking. Throwing all other under the bus since 10 years. Stange guy with no social skills. A crazy chemtrailer who ask Rogan how he should drink his urin. And some idiots believe him if he tells them how smart he is.
Never saw I guy who was less PACKER PEOPLE than the flaterather. Can let the kids watch prime time loooosers like him.
I said it since 10 years, he gets 20% of the SC and plays like 5%, maybe. And complains all the time.
And there is so fact or statistic who does not back it up. Just a greeeeeeedy wannabe who looks like 60 years....
Packerpasty
February 13, 2023 at 05:41 pm
you must have not ever watched Saint Brady berate his receivers, his coaches, he threw more tantrum than any QB in the last ten years...
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 06:40 pm
I can’t work out whether I’m happy not to read about Brady the player or unhappy he’s going to be on my TV being paid to inform. I actually find Romo ok but still.
fastmoving
February 13, 2023 at 03:34 pm
The players would be the most pissed of if he comes back, easy to see if you watch the games.
The ship on his shoulder fairy tail is gone since 2011. Thats why he was always bad when its counted most, besides the magic run. End even bacj then he was outen worldly in Atlanta and the rest he was pretty good but the team was even better.
But you can be sure, no one takes this crazy egonmaniac. So he will here for you, taking way too much money and making the Packers unwatchable.
AR is a weak chemtrailer who is afraid of education and science who hates to work hard and helping others.
It was always this way but some wont just see the reallity
Packerpasty
February 13, 2023 at 05:49 pm
you have no friggin clue...you know what these players are thinking? No you don't know shit..
Johnblood27
February 13, 2023 at 07:27 am
Hey Ken, nice channeling Mike Holmgren... "Reggie, this is God, come to Green Bay..."
1) Rodgers DOES have something left to prove in Green Bay. He needs to prove he is not a one shot wonder or as Ron Wolf famously said "a fart in the wind" If SB championships are the goal he has plenty left to prove right there in little ol' Green Bay Wisconsin.
2) It IS in his best interests to stay in GB. His fame and notoriety will not be greater than where he has provided the most benefit to the local football club and community. Ignoring the "not a vacation spot" comment, He has spread some shallow roots in GB, as much as he can with his particular personality and background, he is not a local kid, that's obvious.
3) His best chance for glory may lie elsewhere, but it most likely lies in GB. Year to year fluctuation in NFL team performance has become the standard, see Rams, LA. What your type of AR-centric introspection provides is a clear view of managements failures to deliver Championship performance. It takes a team to win and it takes a team to lose, one individual very, very seldom makes the absolute difference. Only by inspiring OTHERS to be their absolute best can an individual truly be the difference between a Championship and not quite a championship. It still takes a TEAM. So...
4) AR needs to be All-In for the TEAM if he is to stay in GB and pursue a Championship. That is the only investment that will pay dividends. But... this is absolutely true no matter what color jersey he wears. The Familiar Green and Gold is better than most.
5) The front office wants to move on... I believe that the front office wants their nuts back. If moving on is the only way that they get them back, they are ready to do so. A conciliatory attitude by AR regarding his contract, his friends on the team, his attitude towards team function attendance, his attitude towards young players, etc on and on... would allow the front office to regain some of their own pride and then perhaps they can do their jobs unobstructed by the vicissitudes of AR's sometimes childish whims.
I have taken the position that it is time (as of last year) to cut ties with AR. I propose scenarios above where he stays and succeeds. I do not believe that the scenarios I propose are realistic. It is time for AR to move on because I am a Green Bay Packer fan and for the best interests of my favorite team I cannot see AR becoming a Team-first kind of leader, which it will take for this team to succeed moving forward.
Bitternotsour
February 13, 2023 at 12:56 pm
there is also the likelihood that Aaron Rodgers is no longer the best quarterback on the roster. Speaking from experience, age will humble you.
egbertsouse
February 13, 2023 at 07:36 am
There is nothing in his contract preventing a trade if Murphy has the will to do it and they are willing to take a cap hit. Only his own fear of irritating Rodgers and wussy tendencies keep him from doing it. They have a number of older, declining players they could trade or cut to deal with his enormous cap hit. Will they stink? Sure, but they will be forced to begin the rebuild that is long overdue.
jurp
February 13, 2023 at 09:47 am
This supposed fear of Rodgers retiring if he's traded to the "wrong" team is BS now, thanks to Brady. As others have said, there's no way in hell that Rodgers will share the HoF induction stage with a more successful QB than he is.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 09:58 am
If Rodgers retires to avoid a trade, that’s actually favorable to us if it’s soon. The contract has an out if he chooses to retire.
Post trade is more complicated. That would have implications for his signing bonus potentially, as well as the post retirement guarantees. Sure, that would be a battle, and we’d hurt for it because we’d have to count the hit until we won the challenge, but we would win if he chose not to play. He’d hurt too, potentially losing money currently already paid. It’s not quite as simple for him as I understand it.
If I was nefarious in Ball’s position, I think I could construct terms with a cap rich team that would effectively function as a means to make signing him for him to refuse to play attractive and yet less onerous to us than being forced to keep him given the contract in place. It’s certainly not impossible to immunize another party as I read the CBA.. Probably would be a team in a mess now too. Rodgers isn’t in as strong a position as some think, unless he truly knows we lack the spine and is willing to bet on it.
Packerpasty
February 13, 2023 at 05:51 pm
Rodgers will not go to a team he doesn't want to go to...they can't just say we are trading you to the Colts and off he goes...the Packers will get nothing if they aren't smart and send him where he will go...
Turophile
February 13, 2023 at 07:39 am
While Rodgers has a say in his future (to some degree all players have that, but top players have more), I think it is really up to the Packers to decide in which direction they want to move for 2023 and communicate that. If they really want Rodgers to stay, they should have given him a clear sign of that. Quite possibly that communication is either already happening, or has happened. While that communication would hopefully never reach the press, each side knows what the other is thinking.
Same applies if they want to move him on. Whichever way it goes it is (or should be) the Packers decision on what they want first, with what Rodgers wants being his decision, AFTER knowing where the team wants to be.
If there is a disconnect between the two then they will have to dance it out (sorry, talk it out).
PS The "if he stays he has to be all-in" comment is a sort of coded message meaning if you stay in Green Bay you should be there in OTAs and minicamp training with the young receivers - and also you should implement La Fleur's gameplan reasonably faithfully (not absolutely, a QB should be able to make adjustments, but on the whole faithfully).
Packers0808
February 13, 2023 at 07:41 am
So Groundhog Day should be Thursday or Friday?
croatpackfan
February 13, 2023 at 07:56 am
You hope...
BirdDogUni
February 13, 2023 at 09:02 am
21 Feb '23 - PMS?
BruceC1960
February 13, 2023 at 09:32 am
If 12 sees his shadow, do we have 2 more years of him in Green Bay?
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 08:05 am
Watching that game just reinforced the gap between our current capabilities and those two teams. It’s one game certainly, but if anyone can watch that and truly believe that we are on their level in terms of caching or overall on field talent then I only wish I had your glasses.
Since'61
February 13, 2023 at 08:18 am
Andy Reid changed his offense during the halftime and all he did was add motion in the second half. The Eagles defense was totally unprepared for the Chiefs motion and as a result the Chiefs scored on every possession in the 2nd half. Plus the punt return by Toney was a huge play in the game. Thanks, Since '61
jannesbjornson
February 13, 2023 at 09:22 am
Veach made the trade for Toney @ the deadline. Picked up a disgruntled, former #one pick, WR for a #3 and #6. Toney stated, "The Chiefs
environment is just life changing." Conclusion: Every play matters. The punt return changed the course of the Game.
Since'61
February 13, 2023 at 09:52 am
Agree jannes. Thanks, Since '61
jannesbjornson
February 13, 2023 at 10:41 am
All in all, a pretty exciting Game. Neither team slowed down. A bad break on Hurt's fumble.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 13, 2023 at 02:25 pm
Oh settle down. Toney didnt do anything special beyond the punt return, which wouldnt have happened in GB anyways cuz he wouldnt have been returning over Nixon. So lets break down what he did on offense. He ran a couple whip routes with presnap motion that caused all kinds of miscommunications for the eagles and ultimately left Toney completely uncovered. Its actually a concept Packers used to use reguoarly around the goalline before Rodgers beat the presnap motuons out of Lafleur's playbook. All 300 pounds of Eddie Lacy couldve made those plays. Thats how open they were. Andy Reid made those plays happen, not Toney. Toney is just a guy in a sea of other just a guys. 7 catches for 50 yds and a td TOTAL in 3 playoff games.
jannesbjornson
February 13, 2023 at 08:20 pm
Not so. There is a discussion about their Film Study on SI and Peter King's interview with Andy. They were setting those plays up during practice. What does Toney have to do with Green Bay? The Chiefs saw where his talent fit their scheme and Veach dealt for him. Three playoff games is about right for a guy drafted in 2021.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 08:37 am
So I was hoping we were going to have this talk today vs another article about Rodgers needing to leave.
So lets talk about the differences between the teams we saw last night and our Packers.
The most notable differences that I saw.
Chiefs offense -
TE - While I believe Kelce is the best TE in the league right now, the Packers have probably one of the worst groups in the league. Tonyan has a bit of Kelce in him, but that was pre injury. Packers need to upgrade the TE!
WR - One of the biggest differences I saw was the Chiefs have some quick twitch type of WR's. On 2 of the TD's the WR ran in made a sharp cut back and was wide open for TD's. I don't see any Packers WR really able to make that move.
Eagles offense -
The OL. They have a terrific OL. Arguably the best in the NFL. The Packers with Bakthiari and Jenkins healthy, is not that far away from being one of the top tier OL's. Myers needs to take a step. And they need to figure out the right side more. But the Left side with our guys healthy is not that far off.
TE - Same with Chiefs, Goedert just made plays when they needed it. He made some big time catches. Packers miss that player right now.
I don't think we are that far away. I know that's a crime to say on this website. But its what I believe. The biggest things we need is better TE's. We need some more WR options, and some guys who can be a quick twitch/change of direction types that can create space.
BruceC1960
February 13, 2023 at 09:35 am
How about the QB sneak with Jalen Hurts and that o-line surge? Yikes.
dobber
February 13, 2023 at 09:49 am
That looked like stuff you only see in grainy black-and-white reel footage.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 10:50 am
Yeah I don't think you will find many QB's that can do that. That was impressive.
BruceC1960
February 13, 2023 at 11:54 am
Gotta think you want Jalen Hurts with you in the foxhole.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 12:04 pm
No doubt. I don't recall seeing a modern day QB that could do what he did.
The one question I will have for him though, is how long of a career will he have if he keeps doing those types of things.
Oppy
February 13, 2023 at 03:32 pm
This. That's always the bugaboo with the tough-as-nails, running QB.
The hits stack up and eventually you see the injuries and wear and tear take a toll- either critical missed games or severely shortened careers.
There are exceptions, but not many.
If you feature a bruising, running QB, you better have a real solid investment in a back up plan.
BirdDogUni
February 13, 2023 at 09:37 am
"I don't see any Packers WR really able to make that move."
Bo Melton? I know we haven't "seen" him do it yet, but I think he can and will...
Our OL could be very good, but we need some guys to step up or draft a RT early.
The biggest thing we need to be able to do is make some stops on defense. Philly didn't stop the Chiefs one time in the 2nd half. Not once.
Our Safety position is a mess, so we need to sort it out and we probably need at least one more OLBer to step up or draft one high to get our pass rush up to snuff.
Yes, we need a decent TE, but we also need our MVP QB to actually utilize the middle of the field. We need him to quit with the hero ball unless the guy is wide open and take what the defense gives him. Hit the open WR/RB/TE instead of throwing into double coverage.
IDK what the Packers and AR12 will decide, but if they do run it back, we're going to need find a way to play complete games, keep AR12 clean, and be able to make stops on defense.
There has been a lot of negativity the last few months and the Packers deserved most of it, whether it be the Hero Ball, the defense, Joe Barry, or stale offensive schemes.
There has to be some seriously positive changes if the Packers run it back. It is possible, if not likely.
We did score 33 points on the Eagles.
We scored 41 and kicked the absolute Dog Shit out of the mini viks...
We have some really nice pieces and if we run it back, we'll need a few more, plus some magic to actually make a run, but it is not impossible.
Whatever happens, I just hope it is for the overall health of the Packers and not because of egos clashing.
"We're not idiots." Prove it to me Mark Murphy.
Prove it...
MainePackFan
February 13, 2023 at 09:56 am
Good post Bird. It would be difficult to disagree with anything you wrote. I'm also curious to see what we have with Melton.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 10:18 am
It’s a Cobb move of several years ago. That’s a problem. Melton, Doubs and Toure have the potential to make a move like that. All are very agile. Melton is the most obvious pure slot of the three. I’d also add Goodson as potentially another. We had potential tools available (I discount Melton as a late arrival) but never tried them in those types of position.
Melton had some drops issues and an injury in camp for Seattle, but I’m excited to see if he can step up and give us a true slot if he adds some upper body strength. He’s also great at option plays—no issues with lower body power and the ball in hand. He could also be viable return depth. He lost out to some other interesting prospects in Seattle, but he’s a great extra draft pick for us in effect.
MainePackFan
February 13, 2023 at 10:26 am
Agreed. I also concur that Goodson has the potential to contribute.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 11:26 am
I was pushing for Goodson all year. I thought he brought some of Tyler Ervin to the offense that could have really helped the offense.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 11:40 am
We talk about Jones’ ability as a catcher. Goodson seems to be a far more natural receiver to me. He may not be Jones as a pure running back, but his speed and agility with those hands ought to be something a coach could weaponize in the slot/option/RB space.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 12:06 pm
Absolutely. That is exactly what I was pulling for him to be on the 53. I thought he could have added to the offense. Especially if he was paired with Jones in the backfield.
Hopefully he has a good offseason and can contribute next year!
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 10:54 am
Yeah Melton might be able to? He has speed for sure. I don't know about his change of direction ability, just cuz we haven't seen him.
Leatherhead
February 13, 2023 at 11:55 am
"":"The biggest thing we need to be able to do is make some stops on defense. Philly didn't stop the Chiefs one time in the 2nd half. Not once."""
KC had the #1 offense in the league. Scoring, yards, first downs.....the whole enchilada. Nobody did a very good job of stopping them. That's the NFL today....put an offense on the field that can execute and score quite a few points. I mean, Philadelphia scored 35 and lost.
Philadelphia had a good defense, but they gave up 30 or more 5 times last year. KC's defense was very similar to ours. The people who pound their fist on the bar and talk about how the Packer defense is no good and we'll never win unless it's Top 3 or whatever need to explain to me how the 16th ranked defense (AVERAGE) won the Super Bowl.'
'
It's about scoring points. The Chiefs scored 17 once, and every other game was 20 or more. They scored 30 or more half the time. The Packers scored less than 20 EIGHT times, and went over 30 THREE times. In the Super Bowl, they had 3 penalties for 15 yards, no turnovers, two punts and one missed FG. That is an offense that is executing. Mahomes threw SIX incompletions and did not have a turnover and finished with a passer rating of 131.8. Rodgers had three games with a passer rating of 100 or better.
If we want to score more points, and we do, we'll need better quarterbacking and better blocking. I think both are doable.
Fix the offense. Change the QB, improve the line. As you noted, we have some very good pieces.
Bitternotsour
February 13, 2023 at 01:04 pm
we don't have the coach. the offense, and the offensive coordinator, and the head coach have all proven to be at best suspect.
it's no coincidence the offense fell apart with Getsy and Hackett departing.
dobber
February 13, 2023 at 01:26 pm
The offense we saw this year was pretty much the same one we saw most of 2021 minus Adams.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 06:59 pm
Minus the guy 80% of it was built around per LaFleur. Oh to have a real coach and offensive mind.
jannesbjornson
February 13, 2023 at 09:38 am
He wanted Walker @ #22 instead of Watson. The two picks should have gone to the offense with a chance at Skyy Moore or Pierce, then snag an OT. Just a better personnel dept in KC. They always ran a quick twitch offense as Andy Reid understood the evolution of the Game. Skyy Moore fit the spot for Hill. We saw Pacheco star for Rutgers vs Badger. A 7th rd guy as the starting RB. He brings in pass rush with Karlaftis and Leo Chenal. McDuffie starts as a CB and Jalen Watson see the field as a nickel. KC has the two best coaches in pro football running the show. A young and fast team. Reload, not rebuild.
davekenya
February 13, 2023 at 11:50 am
Agreed. KC's ongoing success is more due to Reid's creativity on offense (and Spagnuolo's creativity on defense for that matter) than due to how wonderful Mahomes is. That is why they were able to re-load on offense after losing Hill. While Mahomes is very talented no doubt, a number of QBs would be as successful and love to be running that offense...it wasn't Mahomes confusing Philly's defense and doing things to create these wide open receivers, it was the play calling
dobber
February 13, 2023 at 09:48 am
TE--if you read Kelce's scouting reports, he came out of college as an established blocker and as a receiver who'd just had his best (senior) year, but didn't have a long history as a pass-catcher. He's not stopwatch fast, but carries his timed speed onto the field. Ultra-competitive, a tireless worker, and used to his strengths. People keep saying, "we need a Kelce in GB," but I would argue it doesn't need to be a TE.
"On 2 of the TD's the WR ran in made a sharp cut back and was wide open for TD's. I don't see any Packers WR really able to make that move."
Why does it need to be a WR? Why not a shifty RB or a TE? AJones can do that. Pass-catchers and playmakers--evolve with the talent you have--not rigid position typecasting.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 11:02 am
And we don't need to draft a TE in the first round. I actually prefer waiting until the 2nd or so if we can. The first round TE's haven't really paned out in the league.
It doesn't have to be a WR, but it helps having those guys. You need guys on the outside that can create space. We need more speed at TE. But you won't find many quick twitch type of TE's. Much easier to find that kind of WR.
RB's sure, you can find those guys as well. I think they have one of them in Tyler Goodson. But he didn't play this year. They might find one in the draft.
But speaking of WR's and what we know for GB. We have Watson and Doubs for sure. After that a lot of questions. They need more speed for sure. Watching the Chiefs game last night they ran that one play 2 times for TD's. Once to Toney the other to Moore. I was watching that play and thinking, I just don't know if we have anyone to run that route. I want a guy that could run that route.
Leatherhead
February 13, 2023 at 11:34 am
Philadelphia scored 477 points this year, we scored 370. If we would use their short yardage play, we'd have stayed on the field more and scored more points.
As a passer, Hurts isn't an improvement on Rodgers. 22 TDs, a 101.5 passer rating. Rodgers had 26 and a 91.1.
But those 760 yards Hurts got on the ground helped a lot. 13 TDs. Numerous first downs.
I know that for many people it's always about another WR, a faster WR, more WRs. This is despite the fact that our #2 WR is only going to get targeted a couple of times a game.
We could get a TE, but there's no guarantee he'll be a big improvement on Tonyans 53 catches last year.
There is only one ball. 65 snaps. 40 of those are going to the RBs. We want to feed Watson. So all other receivers....Doubs, Toure,Melton, The New Guy, Tonyan, Lewis, Deguara, the New Guy.... are sharing about 17 targets.
Change the QB, improve the line. If that's all we do, we'll be better next year.
jannesbjornson
February 13, 2023 at 12:01 pm
Philly dumped their mistake, Reagor and he sits on the purple bench. They Drafted a fast WR in the '21 draft with a # one pick, Devonta Smith. Not satisfied with the depth chart, they traded for another WR, AJ Brown during the draft giving the #18 to Tennessee for Burks. They had Goedert on board for the TE spot . KC drafted Skyy Moore #54, they hauled in three Veteran WRs in the off-season , including MVS, Schuster-Smith and the trade for Toney, a guy who does not fair catch punts and turned the course of the Game , yesterday. Hurts is a danger running the ball, but he's a QB first. He was stripped of the rock and KC scored a gimme TD.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 12:12 pm
Great points brought up.
I think we need more speed options at WR. Watson is a stud! But he is our only true field stretcher. You need more then 1. They can change the offense. Look at the impact that Watson gave the offense once he came on against Dallas. It changed the offense.
Its not necessarily about the targets they get, but its about the presence they bring. Just knowing that they can take one deep any time makes the DB's play deeper. It makes Safety's play deeper. Gives you more room to work underneath.
We lack the TE production in the redzone. That is where we lack the most. In 2020 Tonyan had 11 TD catches. This year he had 2. In 2020 he had 586 yards on 52 catches. This year Tonyan had 470 on 53. We just lacked that explosiveness from the TE. And the run after the catch ability. We need to improve that position!
Regardless of who the QB is they need more help at both positions.
Leatherhead
February 13, 2023 at 09:08 am
Last year, the Eagles finished 9-8 and lost in the first round.
So, they fired the coach, and all the assistants, and all the front office personnel. But of course, they fell short of the "ultimate victory", so it all means nothing.
Yeah, that's a bunch of bullshit, but people say it here all the time.
What did Philadelphia do to get from 9-8 to the Super Bowl? Well, they didn't burn it down and start over. They built on what they had. Just like we're g oing to do.
What you saw in those two teams is a top notch QB at the peak of his skills leading his team to the endzone, over and over again.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 09:43 am
They didn’t burn it down. They did gamble everything adding FA talent around a young corps and cutting bait at QB. It almost worked. Now though, we will need to wait and see what that means for next year. It could have been a brief peak not sustainable.
Leatherhead
February 13, 2023 at 09:46 am
So why all the calls here for burning it down? Fire everyone, that's basically what I've been reading since the season started, isn't it.?
Our situation is not nearly as bad as some people are painting it.
dobber
February 13, 2023 at 10:10 am
This would be a good place to dust off the "guy at the end of the bar" comments. I miss those...even though they were often aimed at me! ;)
Leatherhead
February 13, 2023 at 11:19 am
I never, never thought you were the guy at the end of the bar. Other people, oh yes. But I've been advised by the Propriety Police that I shouldn't say things like that, and I'm trying really hard not to trigger him.
But yeah, the burn it down crowd at the end of the bar has gone through several pitchers this year.
13TimeChamps
February 13, 2023 at 01:20 pm
So they advised you to act like an adult. Good advice.
I hope this doesn't trigger you.
(Just to clarify, I'm not the drunk at the end of the bar, I'm the nitwit who's mentally ill).
dobber
February 13, 2023 at 01:29 pm
"I never, never thought you were the guy at the end of the bar. "
I wore a big hat.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 06:53 pm
If that was all you were wearing you really spent too long in there, no matter how big it was.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 11:31 am
Our situation is also not as similar to that of the eagles going in to last season. Each is different. Not least the age and contract profiles at that time.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 11:50 am
"Our situation is not nearly as bad as some people are painting it."
This is what I have been trying to say but most on here argue with me and tell me I'm wrong.
Leatherhead
February 13, 2023 at 12:05 pm
I agree with you on that RC. But you think we can get this done with Rodgers, and I do not.
RCPackerFan
February 13, 2023 at 12:31 pm
That's fair. I do believe we can. I don't view Rodgers as being done like many think. Sure he isn't the runner that he used to be, but he has great pocket awareness, and his arm hasn't dropped off significantly. I see what happened this year. He had a lot of new coaches, had a new WR corp, the OL was a mess and he had a broken thumb on his throwing hand. I look to next year and the WR's he will have a better feel for. They will have more confidence in what they are doing. The OL will be improved, so I see this offense becoming much better.
And for the record I'm not saying we can't with Love. When i talk about Love it comes from not knowing what he can do. I felt better about Rodgers when he was becoming the starter then I do Love right now. But I feel much better about Love this offseason then last years.
I feel good about our future.
4thand10
February 13, 2023 at 08:18 am
Good letter, hope management reads it.
Since'61
February 13, 2023 at 08:32 am
I agree with everything in Ken's article. But I am concerned over his last point about the NFL beat writers articles that it's time for Rodgers to leave Green Bay.
Personally I believe that Rodgers should retire because as Ken correctly points out there is nothing left for him to prove in Green Bay or anywhere for that matter. But I'm concerned that he will put the chip on his shoulders and remain in Green Bay just to try and prove the media talking heads wrong. That will turn out badly for him and the Packers. The Packers are not ready to win an SB with or without Rodgers. Rodgers will get blamed going forward if he remains and the Packers don't win. The Packers need to move on from Rodgers, clear out their salary cap and build around Love or another QB. Rodgers remaining in Green Bay will prevent that from happening for another season or two.
This is why the Packers FO should be dictating what will happen this offseason rather than waiting for Rodgers to tell them what to do. How long will the FO wait on Rodgers decision. What if Rodgers doesn't decide until May or June? What if Rodgers keeps going in and out of the darkness? What if Rodgers declines a trade? This is why management needs to act in these situations. Waiting and hoping is not a plan and it usually ends badly and everyone wondering what if?
The continued lack of decisions from the FO seeds a terrible message to the players and the fans. Thanks, Since '61
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 08:59 am
It is inevitable that the motivations of any player (or employee) and team will not entirely coincide. The Packers must look to the future if the franchise and Rodgers to the rest of his life. The Packers FO is paid to safeguard the interests of the organization. That can never honestly be achieved by ceding decision making to any player, since by doing so, it is alowing his somewhat different interests to subsume those of the team. Again, a classic sign of leadership failure that one looks for in troubled organizations.
Coldworld
February 13, 2023 at 08:59 am
Duplicate deleted
fair_weather
February 13, 2023 at 08:35 am
I’ve been saying number two for a while now. The only thing the Packers offer him right now is a fat paycheck. There’s no way this team is ready to compete.
LeotisHarris
February 13, 2023 at 08:39 am
I'm pretty sure Aaron will see his shadow after they roll away the stone.
Oppy
February 13, 2023 at 09:02 am
Aaron Rodgers is no Jesus. :)
HarryHodag
February 13, 2023 at 09:03 am
I agree 100% with Ken. Best thing you've written that I've seen. AR can be a hero somewhere else then retire.
The Packers will not win the Super Bowl next year. They likely won't even win the division next year. But I have a sense that the offense will be better with Rodgers gone. The key example is Seattle where Geno Smith proved he could be a good QB by following what the coaching staff wanted, unlike another prima donna in Russell Wilson. I'm also intrigued by Jordan Love's mobility.
Rodgers always was praised for his intelligence. We'll see how smart he is after four days in darkness. Maybe a light will go on.
mbpacker
February 13, 2023 at 09:31 am
Ken- Excellent article and I agree 100% on your views of the matter. I don't like that one player has so much power in an organization. Rogers was enabled to do so and now we have reached this point. It's like being stuck in quicksand, the more you struggle the deeper you sink. Let's hope that 12 throws a nice spiral life-line, and just retires or agrees to be traded. GPG!
pantz_bURp
February 13, 2023 at 09:41 am
Like with anything, compromise is an integral part of moving forward.
One example: as an organization, the Packers can help #12 find himself. In turn #12 can help the Packers by finding the open receiver. See, things don't have to get personal or complicated or even ugly.
That was easy.
Hey barkeep, pass me down a pickled egg and a bag of Funyuns when you have a moment...thanks. ✌️👍👌
GPG!
LambeauPlain
February 13, 2023 at 10:04 am
Rodgers is getting weirder and goofier as his QB skills decline....and more blatantly narcissistic.
If you are going into 4 days of darkness...just do it in private and spare us your cringeworthy details.
Really makes one wonder what the man does when no one is watching or getting plastered with his shallow narcissism. SMH.
dobber
February 13, 2023 at 10:17 am
"Rodgers is getting weirder and goofier as his QB skills decline....and more blatantly narcissistic."
I don't know about that. He might have always been this guy, but had better handlers and didn't have the regular platforms to display it. If he's weird, but it still turns into strong on-field performances and wins, I don't really care. Hell, the NFL is a copycat league---if it's turning into wins, half the league might start having required "tea retreats" to the Caribbean. But if it's weird, divisive, and isn't moving the team forward?
Oppy
February 13, 2023 at 03:38 pm
Oh, he's always been this guy. Ted knew. "...he's a complicated fella."
croatpackfan
February 14, 2023 at 03:55 am
Scouts reports are telling. They warned teams that the main problem with ACR is his "cockiness", nicer word for narcissist who claim that he can not be wrong ever. That was why ACR fall so down at the 2005 draft. But Ted had the way with him, no one else...
Barnacle
February 13, 2023 at 11:26 am
Lambeau
Spot on! Narsistic Personality Disorder is AR’s mental disorder.
Tekraut17
February 13, 2023 at 10:40 am
Absolutely cracks me up when I read these posts about how terrible the Packer's coaches are and that they need to be fired ASAP. Reminds me of when Andy Reid was in Philly and their fanbase were dogging him about how he couldn't win the big one....It takes more than just a good coach, good QB, good defense...It's a product of the whole and then sprinkle in some luck/good calls/good bounces/few injuries and you have a chance at winning a Superbowl.
13TimeChamps
February 13, 2023 at 11:22 am
I'm not sure how long you've been on this site, but a warning. Saying anything positive about the Packers FO and/or coaches will get you figuratively tarred and feathered. Doom and gloom is the popular theme in here. Lose 2 games in a row for the first time in 4 years? Fire everybody and clean house. McCarthy was clueless, LaFleur is an idiot, and Murphy is the devil.
So just disregard all those winning seasons over the past 20 years or so. The 70's/80's are right around the corner because of one 8-9 season.
Packerpasty
February 13, 2023 at 05:46 pm
oh yah, and don't forget saying anything positive about AR...hahaha...this site is something else..be very curious on who most of these people will turn on next when AR moves on...
Swisch
February 13, 2023 at 10:44 am
When we reach above ourselves we grow; otherwise, we shrivel in self-centeredness.
davekenya
February 13, 2023 at 11:37 am
Great article in summarizing clearly and broadly what the major themes are in AR staying and going - a good primer for anyone to 'get up to speed' if they aren't there already!
My 10000 foot aerial view of AR and his status as a Packer would also include this:
While much maligned for his playoff failures, it is worth noting his career playoff qbr is 5th all time. While other qb rating measures may differ slightly (if you found/applied them), they'd likely tell a similar story. So...as an individual performing in playoff games, he's done very well and his body of work covers many years (no small sample size error). To me, it HAS to indicate GB's failure to win multiple super bowls on other factors -- coaching, supporting cast, etc. While AR's not been perfect, he's certainly, on average been performing 'good enough' to get GB to the promised land.
One recent example (yes, cherry-picking a bit) but to make a point: AR vs TB and Brady a couple years ago. GB lost and we bemoaned AR's performance. Yet, his stat line was FAR superior to Brady head to head. TB won despite Brady; GB lost despite AR.
P.S. This list makes me appreciate Bart Starr even more -- #2 overall in an era before the 'Brady Rule' was instituted in 2009 and when QB protection only consisted of telling a single qb to be careful when fooling around at a stripper bar.
Rank Player Rate Years Tm
1 Patrick Mahomes 107.4 2017-2022 kan
2 Bart Starr+ 104.8 1956-1971 gnb
3 Kurt Warner+ 102.8 1998-2009 2TM
4 Matt Ryan 100.8 2008-2022 atl
5 Aaron Rodgers 100.1 2005-2022 gnb
6 Josh Allen 99.6 2018-2022 buf
7 Matthew Stafford 99.0 2009-2022 2TM
8 Nick Foles 98.8 2012-2022 phi
9 Alex Smith 97.4 2005-2020 2TM
10 Drew Brees 97.1 2001-2020 2TM
11 Joe Montana+ 95.6 1979-1994 2TM
12 Russell Wilson 95.3 2012-2022 sea
13 Mark Sanchez 94.3 2009-2018 nyj
14 Joe Burrow 93.8 2020-2022 cin
15 Kirk Cousins 93.7 2012-2022 2TM
16 Ken Anderson 93.5 1971-1986 cin
17 Tony Romo 93.0 2004-2016 dal
18 Dak Prescott 92.3 2016-2022 dal
19 Joe Theismann 91.4 1974-1985 was
20 Tom Brady 89.8 2000-2022 2TM
21 Joe Flacco 88.6 2008-2022 rav
22 Troy Aikman+ 88.3 1989-2000 dal
23 Cam Newton 87.7 2011-2021 car
24 Eli Manning 87.4 2004-2019 nyg
Peyton Manning+ 87.4 1998-2015 2TM
13TimeChamps
February 13, 2023 at 11:46 am
Numbers 20,22,24,24 pretty much proves how useless QBR can be. All of those QB's have much lower QBR than Rodgers, but have won, I believe, 11 SB's between them. Stats only tell part of the story.
Oppy
February 13, 2023 at 03:51 pm
This right here.
QBR rewards efficiency, as well as throwing away the ball.
What it fails to encompass is overall decision making and it cannot weight real-world success or failure with any real context.
Tony Romo at #17 all time post season QBR.. what more can a guy say?
davekenya
February 13, 2023 at 05:31 pm
...and also 'winning' doesn't necessarily equate with how great the QB factored into that success. Jim Kelly never won a superbowl, but Doug Williams did -- who's the better qb? Peyton Manning had a passer rating of 56.6 with 141 yards in Super Bowl 50 win versus the Panthers. Sometimes teams win or lose despite the individual qb performance -- which was the thesis of my original post.
croatpackfan
February 14, 2023 at 04:00 am
But none of them (except Mahomes) have/had salary of +50 mill $ per season!
Tundraboy
February 13, 2023 at 11:48 am
We can talk all day about this one. . Nice work
Since'61
February 13, 2023 at 12:16 pm
davekenya - just to clarify, Bart Starr's post season QBR is 104.8. His career QBR is 80.5. Starr played behind the best OL of all time. He also played in 9m post season games.
I t makes it difficult to compare with players like Rodgers, Favre, Brady, Montana, Peyton Manning and many from this era who have played at least twice as many games as Starr in their careers. Thanks, Since '61
davekenya
February 13, 2023 at 05:26 pm
You are right. So much factors in to an individual QB's 'performance'. Just looking at sample size, probably #1 Mahomes and #6 Allen could be dropped from this list. But...there's also OL quality, receiver quality (chicken/egg -- does WR make the QB look better than he actually is or vice-versa or a combo?). But...you have to start with some metric to evaluate effectiveness, right? And then carefully add on other factors objectively.
With Starr, the hash marks were wider than now (where they're even with the goal posts). When the ball was spotted on a hash mark, the defense could use the 'narrow' side of the field as, in essence, an extra defender (WR had less room to run a route). And...offenses had to 'waste a down' to 'center' the ball on 3rd down so a field goal attempt would be set up nearer the middle of the field. Teams today don't have to worry about that as the ball is placed on either (narrower) hash mark and field goal attempts are easier. More QBs today play in enclosed fields - does that advantage them more than the defense or vice-versa? On and on it goes. It's definitely harder to compare eras...but I would say it was 'harder' to be a great QB in past eras than today where rule changes favor higher scoring and thus QB ratings. (Some of these rules, BTW, came into play when the short-lived WFL formed. The NFL was worried about losing viewership to the more open, exciting-to-watch WFL...so out came new rules favoring offenses and scoring).
Packers1985
February 13, 2023 at 03:50 pm
Yes Rodgers failures in playoffs not entirely his fault, it's combination of multiple things be it the coaches to multiple phases(offense and st's or defense or st's)of ball sucking together. We have seen multiple teams won in the playoffs even when the Qb played okish for example the Brady led Pats won against Rams in a low scoring game in sb 2019 and also sb 2015 Peyton has been literally given Sb by his defense alone. But for Packers the curse always has been if one phase of football plays bad the other phase of it sucks too. When ever our defense played good our offense and ST's didn't show up and when offense played good the defense and St's didn't show up. To win a SB it's the whole team that need to step up including the coaches etc not just one player.
You can clearly see that from KC yesterday almost very body stepped up when needed be it their RB, Returner or LB , Juju , Tooney in the second half. The coaches too made significant changes in the second half.
stockholder
February 13, 2023 at 12:39 pm
THE FRONT OFFICE WANTS YOU TO MOVE ON?
Then pay him and cut him.
The rats will leave a sinking ship.
Bitternotsour
February 13, 2023 at 01:15 pm
or conversely, fleece the jets or another team into sacrificing draft picks and rebuild that which has been sacrificed for this narcissistic d-bag and his outrageous salary.
why are you concerned over AR getting paid?
Oppy
February 13, 2023 at 03:53 pm
I hate to be the one to break this to you..
But, uh, have you heard a number of the recent interviews with Packers players about Love?
They sound pretty jazzed to play with the kid if he gets his shot.
My guess: Rodgers' "leadership by stink-eye" has worn pretty thin amongst the ranks. Teammates are ready for change.
Packerpasty
February 13, 2023 at 05:54 pm
it doesn't sound jazzed to me, sounds like what your supposed to say about a teammate...and thats all it sounds like...dont invent shit..
Oppy
February 14, 2023 at 04:55 pm
John Kuhn just literally commented this morning on the 97.3 broadcast specifically that the talk surrounding Jordan love coming from his teammates doesn’t sound like the run of the mill “‘prop up your teammate and tow the company line’ support. He specifically said this sounds like real excitement to play with love. The other guys agreed whole heartedly.
Don’t just make shit up, Patsy.
This team believes in Love’s talent and is ready for change.
croatpackfan
February 14, 2023 at 04:04 am
So, stockholder, you'll leave the ship finally? That will release a lot of pressure to ship who might continue to sail after that...
Rebecca
February 13, 2023 at 02:42 pm
Imagine the nail biting and teeth grinding at 1265. I would like to see the head coach and defensive coordinator traded. If Rodgers is traded I hope he wins a Super Bowl. If he isn’t traded and stays I hope he wins a Super Bowl this season. But we all know that it takes a team effort to win the trophy.
Packerpasty
February 13, 2023 at 05:29 pm
How about them Eagles!! Taking the clock down to 1/2 seconds almost every play, even getting a penalty, throwing deep "hero ball" passes...looked very familiar..
croatpackfan
February 14, 2023 at 04:05 am
Yea! Especially was familiar with those QB deep runs and TDs by QB running. It reminds me on one QB, but it is not...
Bitternotsour
February 14, 2023 at 08:41 am
add in a critical turnover, and you might be onto something. oh wait, that offense ran the ball thru the qb, and made 1st down after 1st down on 4th and short.
it's one thing when you run the clock down and you're ahead, quite another when you trail...
PackerGravy
February 15, 2023 at 06:13 am
The young fellas can’t relate to the Rodg, time for 12 to move along and let the Love light show
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 15, 2023 at 03:17 pm
Awesome Lass! Well done!