Ranking Ted Thompson's Draft Picks 1-119

From 2005-2017 Ted Thompson made a total of 121 draft choices for the Green Bay Packers. From his first ever selection, Aaron Rodgers, until his last, Devante Mays, Thompson was widely accepted as one of the better talented evaluators of his time. So today, I take a look at how those picks are rated, from first to last. 

A few notes prior to proceeding:

  • I excluded Johnathan Franklin and Terrence Murphy due to the fact that their careers were shortened due to career ending injury
  • I basically sorted all players into four tiers:
    • Tier 1: Players who added value to the team and/or exceeded expectations
    • Tier 2: Players who had a small cup of coffee on the team and added minimal value OR talented players who were drafted by Ted but found success on other teams
    • Tier 3: Players who were quickly released or never really played
    • Tier 4: Busts – picks in the top 100(ish) in their respective drafts who never lived up to expectations

So without further ado; here is the list:

Tier 1

  1. Aaron Rodgers - (2005, pick 24) - Not a bad first pick; Rodgers is a future Hall of Famer and one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game.
  1. David Bakhtiari - (2013, pick 109) - Finding an All-Pro left tackle at pick 109 is no small feat. Bakhtiari was a major hidden gem unearthed by Thompson.
  2. Mike Daniels - (2012, pick 132) - Another mid round gem, Daniels is one of the Packers best defensive players and the heart and soul of Green Bay's defense.
  3. Nick Collins - (2005, pick 51) - Collins could have been a Hall of Famer had he stayed health, he was that good.
  4. Clay Matthews - (2009, pick 26) - Thompson's trade-up for Matthews would go on to be one of his best draft day moves. Clay's been a playmaker on defense from day one.
  1. T.J. Lang - (2009, pick 109) - Lang was a fan-favorite and steady presence across the offensive line for years.
  2. Josh Sitton - (2008), pick 135) - Sitton, like Lang and Bakhtiari really show how good Thompson was at drafting all-pro caliber linemen in the middle rounds.
  3. Jordy Nelson - (2008, pick 36) - Nelson and Rodgers together were one of the best QB-WR duos in NFL history. Nelson was a steal at pick 36.
  4. Casey Hayward - (2012, pick 62) - Hayward may be higher on this list had Green Bay kept the talented CB; Hayward has been a Pro-Bowl corner for San Diego.
  5. Kenny Clark - (2016, pick 27) - Clark began breaking out in 2017, the future is incredibly bright for the young lineman who is somehow still only 22).
  1. Greg Jennings - (2006, pick 52) - Jennings had an unceremonious departure from Green Bay and the NFL in general, but make no mistake, he was a huge part of Green Bay's Super Bowl run.
  2. Davante Adams - (2014, pick 53) - Thompson's two specialties were 2nd round wide receivers and mid-round linemen. Adams is still ascending and will be Rodgers' number one receiver going forward.
  3. Jermichael Finley - (2008, pick 91) - Finley was a major gamble coming out of college, if it weren't for Finley's injury he may have ended up even higher on this list. 
  4. Corey Linsley - (2014, pick 161) - Linsley received his contract extension this past offseason and was one of Green Bay's top performers a season ago.
  5. Randall Cobb - (2011, pick 64) - Cobb is already the fourth 2nd round receiver on this list, and one of Green Bay's best weapons out of the slot during the past decade.
  1. Bryan Bulaga - (2010, pick 23) - Bulaga has had injuries and has been inconsistent at times, but he's been a steady starter for Green Bay over the years. Green Bay's better with him in the lineup.
  2. B.J. Raji - (2009, pick 9) - Raji didn't have a great end to his career and obviously ended his career early; that said, Raji was integral during their Super Bowl run and helped Green Bay shape their 3-4 defense.
  3. James Jones - (2007, pick 78) - Jones had 51 career touchdowns, including 45 for Green Bay; he was one of Rodgers' favorite targets over the years.
  4. Aaron Jones - (2017, pick 182) - Jones still needs to prove he deserves to be in the top 20, but he's on the right track. His playmaking ability was abundantly apparent a season ago.
  5. Micah Hyde - (2013, pick 159) - Hyde's versatility and punt return ability were always on display in Green Bay; he then went on to have a breakout season in Buffalo last year.\
  1. Desmond Bishop - (2007, pick 192) - Bishop was the intimidator in the middle of the defense during his time in Green Bay; he played his best during the run to the Super Bowl.
  2. Mason Crosby - (2007, pick 193) - Not a bad career for someone picked at 193 overall in the draft. Crosby has been steady and efficient and is the best onside kicker I've ever seen.
  3. Morgan Burnett - (2010, pick 71) - Burnett was never spectacular but always solid; hopefully he doesn't follow in the footsteps of Hayward and Hyde and have his best season after leaving Green Bay.
  4. Nick Perry - (2012, pick 28) - Perry can be frustrating because his flashes of play are spectacular while his lulls seem to go on forever at times. Perry is oft-injured and inconsistent, but Green Bay's best current pass rusher.
  1. J.C. Tretter - (2013, pick 122) - Tretter is another player who struggled with injuries while in Green Bay but he was a nice starting center for Green Bay when given the opportunity. He had an up and down season in Cleveland last year.
  2. Blake Martinez - (2016, pick 131) - We started to see signs of Martinez' breakout in 2017. He's not there yet, but he continued to take steps in the right direction; 2018 could be huge for Martinez.
  3. HaHa Clinton-Dix - (2014, pick 21) - Clinton-Dix struggled last year, but he was a Pro Bowl player in 2016. The next couple years will determine where he ultimately ends up on this list.
  4. A.J. Hawk - (2006, pick 5) - At pick five, you hopefully are able to draft an absolute difference maker for your team, Hawk wasn't that, but he was consistent and had a really nice career in Green Bay.
  5. Daryn Colledge - (2006, pick 47) - Colledge was the starting guard during the Super Bowl season and was mostly average over his career in Green Bay. His play wasn't extraordinary but he was a nice pick for Thompson.
  6. Kevin King - (2017, pick 33) - There's obviously some projection with King, but he showed the ability to be a starting corner in this league. Time will tell, but the team is putting a lot of faith in King going into the 2018 season.
  1. Ty Montgomery - (2015, pick 94) - Montgomery was drafted as a receiver where he never really seemed to fit. His emergence as a running back has likely saved his career and put him in a position to succeed moving forward.
  2. James Starks - (2010, pick 193) - The former Buffalo quarterback was thrown into the fire early due to injuries and started the Super Bowl.
  3. Johnny Jolly - (2006, pick 183) - I flirted with putting Jolly higher on this list, but ultimately his off-field injuries plagued his career and knocked him down the list a bit.
  4. Jake Ryan - (2015, pick 129) - Both PFF and I had Ryan rated ahead of Martinez a season ago, but Martinez' upside is much higher.
  5. Josh Jones - (2017, pick 61) - Jones had his rookie struggles in 2017, but his potential is apparent in every game he plays; here's hoping Jones breaks out in 2018.
  1. Jamaal Williams - (2017, pick 134) - Williams got better as the season went on and looked like a starting caliber running back by the end of the season.
  2. Dean Lowry - (2016, pick 137) - Lowry is still developing but he's shown flashes of being a force. If Lowry can put it together this season he'll end up much higher on this list.
  3. Eddie Lacy - (2013, pick 61) - Lacy's career fell off track quickly, but Lacy was so fun to watch during his initial seasons in Green Bay.
  4. Davon House - (2011, pick 131) - House has had a nice little NFL career for a fourth round cornerback. It remains to be seen whether or not House will remain in Green Bay in 2018.
  5. Damarious Randall - (2015, pick 30) - Randall is a tough player to judge... he had a nice rookie year, followed by a brutal 2016, almost was released after week 4 last year, played great, then was traded.
  1. Aaron Ripkowski - (2015, pick 206) - Ripkowski had a great 2016 followed by a pretty bad 2017. Fullbacks aren't exactly in high demand so he needs to bounce back to keep his spot on the team in 2018.
  2. Brad Jones - (2009, pick 218) - Jones was never exactly a fan-favorite in Green Bay, but for a 7th round pick he had a pretty impressive career.
  3. Brandon Jackson - (2007, pick 63) - Jackson never lived up to expectations, and you could label him a bust, but he had just enough impact to keep him in tier 1 of this list.
  1. Matt Flynn - (2008, pick 209) - Not a bad career for a throw-away 7th round pick. Flynn would go on to outperform 2nd round pick Brian Brohm and even get a chance to compete as a starter in Seattle.
  2. Brady Poppinga - (2005, pick 125) - Poppinga was a nice special teams player and put together a few nice starts. He was always more of a rotational player.

Tier 2

  1. Vince Biegel - (2017, pick 108)
  2. Montravius Adams - (2017, pick 93)
  3. Will Blackmon - (2006, pick 115)
  4. Andrew Quarless - (2010, pick 154)
  5. Allen Barbre - (2007, pick 119)
  6. Breno Giacomini - (2008, pick 150)
  7. Marshall Newhouse - (2010, pick 169)
  8. Jeff Janis - (2014, pick 236)
  9. Korey Hall - (2007, pick 191)
  10. Trevor Davis - (2016, pick 163)
  11. Jarius Wynn - (2009, pick 182)
  12. Kyle Murphy - (2016, pick 200)
  13. Sam Barrington - (2013, pick 232)
  14. C.J. Wilson - (2010, pick 230)
  15. Charles Johnson - (2013, pick 216)
  16. Lawrence Guy - (2011, pick 233)
  17. DeShawn Wynn - (2007, pick 228)
  18. Tyrone Culver - (2006, pick 185)
  19. Tony Moll - (2006, pick 165)
  20. Ryan Taylor - (2011, pick 218)
  21. Dave Tollefson - (2006, pick 253)
  22. David Clowney - (2007, pick 157)
  23. Demetri Goodson - (2014, pick 197)
  24. Brett Hundley - (2015, pick 147)
  25. Quinn Johnson - (2009, pick 145)
  26. Jared Abbrederis - (2014, pick 176)
  27. Christian Ringo - (2015, pick 210)
  28. Clark Harris - (2007, pick 243)
  29. Will Whiticker - (2005, pick 246)
  30. Josh Boyd - (2013, pick 167)
  31. Nate Palmer - (2013, pick 193)
  32. Carl Bradford - (2014, pick 121)
  33. D.J. Smith - (2011, pick 186)
  34. Devante Mays - (2017, pick 238)
  35. Mike Montgomery - (2005, pick 180)
  36. Jamon Meredith - (2009, pick 162)

Tier 3

  1. DeAngelo Yancey - (2017, pick 175)
  2. Malachi Dupre - (2017, pick 247)
  3. Kofi Amichia - (2017, pick 212)
  4. Brett Swain - (2008, pick 217)
  5. Jerron McMillan - (2012, pick 133)
  6. Caleb Schlauderaff - (2011, pick 179)
  7. Junius Coston - (2005, pick 143)
  8. D.J. Williams - (2011, pick 143)
  9. Marviel Underwood - (2005, pick 115)
  10. Brandon Underwood - (2009, pick 187)
  11. Mike Hawkins - (2005, pick 167)
  12. Terrell Manning - (2012, pick 163)
  13. B.J. Coleman - (2012, pick 243)
  14. Kennard Backman - (2015, pick 213)
  15. Kevin Dorsey - (2013, pick 224)
  16. Andrew Datko - (2012, pick 241)
  17. Ricky Elmore - (2011, pick 197)
  18. Craig Bragg - (2005, pick 195)
  19. Kurt Campbell - (2005, pick 245)
  20. Ingle Martin - (2006, pick 148)

Tier 4

  1. Kyler Fackrell - (2016, pick 88) - Fackrell hasn't been quite as bad as some fans think but he's still a top 100 bust at pick 88; Green Bay definitely expected more.
  2. Mike Neal - (2010, pick 56) - Green Bay could never find a position that really fit Mike Neal; and he never really found any success after leaving Green Bay.
  3. Datone Jones - (2013, pick 26) - While Thompson had success at mid-round linemen and 2nd round receivers, he struggled with early defensive linemen; Jones being one of them.
  4. Richard Rodgers - (2014, pick 98) - Rodgers was a head scratcher as soon as he was selected; he had solid ball skills but no unique athletic traits; he was simply over-drafted.
  5. Aaron Rouse - (2007, pick 89) - It's usually a bad idea to take a tall safety who can't flip his hips; Rouse was another example of this. His pick-six of Peyton Manning was the highlight of his short career.
  6. Quinten Rollins - (2015, pick 62) - Green Bay took a gamble on a player who only had played football for one season; that gamble has yet to payoff.
  7. Jeremy Thompson - (2008, pick 102) - Green Bay traded up for Thompson and never got any return on investment; Thompson quickly found his way out of the league.
  8. Alex Green - (2011, pick 96) - When a team takes a running back in the third round, they have high expectations; Green just never panned out and was another player who was quickly out of work.
  9. Cory Rodgers - (2006, pick 104) - In hindsight this is such an odd Thompson pick; a return specialist who ended up not being very good at returning.
  10. Jason Spitz - (2006, pick 75) - Spitz wasn't horrible during his time in green bay, but at pick 75 for an interior lineman, he was definitely a bust.
  11. Derek Sherrod - (2011, pick 32) - Sherrod may be lower on this list but I give him a bit of a pass due to injuries.
  12. Justin Harrell - (2007, pick 16) - Similar to Sherrod, had it not been for injuries I would have rated him lower; he just was never able to get going and his career quickly stalled.
  13. Khyri Thornton - (2014, pick 85) - Green Bay outsmarted themselves with this pick; Thornton was never a top 100 player. They thought they found a diamond in the rough and simply misevaluated him.
  14. Pat Lee - (2008, pick 60) - Lee was a solid special teams player but he never stuck as a true corner, a bust in round 2.
  15. Abdul Hodge - (2006, pick 67) - Lots of fans had high expectations for Hodge coming out of the draft but he simply was never able to make a true impact.
  16. Jason Spriggs - (2016, pick 48) - What hurts even more is that Green Bay traded up for Spriggs; he has one more offseason to try and prove he's not the bust he currently looks like.
  17. Jerel Worthy - (2012, pick 51) - Another top 100 defensive linemen that Thompson drafted that just didn't turn out.
  18. Brian Brohm - (2008, pick 56) - You can't take a quarterback at 56 when you have Aaron Rodgers on the roster, only to have him lose his job immediately to 7th round rookie Matt Flynn. Brohm was a horrible pick.

Not Listed: Johnathan Franklin, Terrence Murphy

What do you think, anyone too high or too low? Comment below!

__________________________

Andy is a graduate of UW-Oshkosh and owns & operates the Pack-A-Day Podcast. Andy has taken multiple courses in NFL scouting and is an Editor for Packer Report. You can find him on WFRV's Green Bay Nation and every Friday on the Friday Film Room on WDUZ . Andy grew up in Green Bay and is a lifelong season ticket holder - follow him on Twitter @AndyHermanNFL!

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Comments (99)

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Lare's picture

April 03, 2018 at 07:01 pm

Hindsight is always easy to make decisions. That said, Thompson did well to keep the Packers competitive for many years. But Is being competitive every year and in the playoffs a success?

Success is in the eye of the beholder. After living through the 70's & 80's I'm glad the Packers have been a consistently winning team since then. But I will always be left with the thought that they should have won multiple Super Bowls with quarterbacks of the caliber of Favre & Rodgers.

Frankly, I think Thompson was over-rated as a GM and should have been replaced 4-5 years ago.

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ricky's picture

April 03, 2018 at 08:11 pm

You wrote: "But is being competetive every year and in the playoffs a success?" The short answer is "Yes, it is." The alternative is not acceptable to Packers fans, especially thos of us (you and I) who lived through the horrible drought (Jim del Gaizo?!?; John Hadl????!!!), the whole point is to (a) win your division (which the Packers have done on a regular basis); (b) make the playoffs (ditto), (c) get hot and make the SB and win. This is the formula for sustained success. The alternative? Be like the Rams this year- go all in, and sell out the future to try to win it all now. And if you don't, you've set yourself up for failure for years to come.

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NickPerry's picture

April 04, 2018 at 05:06 am

What the Rams are doing this season is what ANY NFL franchise would do with a QB still under a rookie contract for 3 more years. I applaud the Rams for going for it while they can. They have to try and sell season tickets and luxury box suites in that new stadium AND try to please the "Glam Crowd" who most certainly will make it fashionable to be seen at a Rams game this year.

The Rams haven't really sold out their future IMO. Suh and Talib were FA when they signed both cut by their teams. The Peters deal was a solid attempt at getting a shut-down CB who IMO is better than T Johnson who they let walk. They'll have $81 million in cap space in 2019 so how have they sold out their future?

If Thompson did ANY of these things while he was GM I have no doubt the Packers could have won more. How many times did we watch the Packers over the last several years completely ignore a [position of need like RB, S, or TE? Thompson teams won because of one player...RODGERS.

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NickPerry's picture

April 05, 2018 at 05:14 am

My mistake on Talib, I couldn't recall for sure because there were rumors he was going to be cut for cap reasons. Still, Talib for a 5th rounder? Where can I get a Talib for a 5th round pick for GB?

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Christopher Gennaro's picture

April 04, 2018 at 05:46 pm

Great post Nick, and I agree with you the Rams need to go for it now, not just because of Goff rookie deal. Unless as you said win over the glam crowd, they are in real trouble going forward.

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ricky's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:49 pm

Your comments about the Rams is logical and persuasive. Well done. The rest is something I'll respectfully disagree. The Eagles did this several years ago with the "Dream Team" that was a huge disappointment. The Vikings apparently feel they are that "one player away" (Cousins), and have bet heavily he'll lead them over the top. Of course, they did something similar when they traded for Herschel Walker. If this doesn't work, the Vikings will have to lose a lot of core players because they won't be able to fit them under the salary cap. Cousins money is fully guaranteed, so there is no way to shed that contract unless another team is foolish enough to but it from them in a trade. Enter NY Jets in two years?

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NickPerry's picture

April 05, 2018 at 05:15 am

LOL...As I was typing that comment I was HOPING for that exact result the Eagles had, especially since I'll be at the Packers / Rams game.

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John Kirk's picture

April 03, 2018 at 07:00 pm

If the 2nd best pick Ted had in his decade plus on the job was David Bakhtiari, that's pretty much all you need to know about his drafting.

Thank goodness his best was better than everyone else's best over the same time frame or we'd be struggling for .500 every year.

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Lare's picture

April 03, 2018 at 07:07 pm

True, but I think you also have to take into account the division they were playing in. For many years, the Packers were basically given a free ride into the playoffs just because the Bears, Vikings and Lions were below average.

Given the fact that they were generally beaten in the early rounds of the playoffs every year (when they faced the better teams) would seem to show that they probably weren't as good as their records indicated.

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John Kirk's picture

April 03, 2018 at 07:41 pm

I agree with you, Lare. I meant that Rodgers as his best pick was better than anyone else's best pick over the same time. Thank goodness for that one moment in time.

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GB Jacker's picture

April 04, 2018 at 03:20 am

Not sure how picking up an all-pro at a league premium position in the fourth round isn't number one on this list frankly. Considering the other top players at the position:
- Tyron Smith - Round 1
- Trent Williams - Round 1
- Joe Thomas - Round 1
- Andrew Whitworth - Round 2
- Taylor Lewan - Round 1
- Joe Staley - Round 1
- Jake Matthews - Round 1

Jason Peters - Undrafted is really the only other outlier. Kudos Ted, nice pick!

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marpag1's picture

April 04, 2018 at 03:50 am

Number one? Well, I don't think we can say it was better than the ARod selection. But other than that, Jack, you just need to learn to ignore 'He who is the latest incarnation of The Cow."

Trying to use the fourth round selection of David Bakhtiari as a SLAM against Ted Thompson is quite literally the dumbest thing that anyone will write on this board all month.

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WKUPackFan's picture

April 04, 2018 at 05:47 am

I admire your restraint marpag, especially since Cow II claimed that you "ran away" from a discussion with him.

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:32 pm

He did. That's a fact. Ask him. Once I asked him questions he said he was done and didn't want to continue. Now, all the things I asked him about have now come to pass...I asked then if he what he thought was true, then Ted should be in Indy at the combine. Not only did he not go to Indy or Mobile but Schneider cried when asked about Ted in Indy. It's borderline impossible to state today that there was or is nothing wrong with Ted. Get angry all you'd like. The only thing you have now is saying it shouldn't be talked about at all but it is true not the false many of you have tried turning that truth into.

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Oppy's picture

April 04, 2018 at 06:07 pm

He's nowhere near Cow.

C'mon guys.

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WKUPackFan's picture

April 04, 2018 at 06:27 pm

You are correct Oppy, he's worse.

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kevgk's picture

April 04, 2018 at 03:37 pm

In 6 of the last 8 seasons the packers went to the playoffs, a non-packers nfcn team has went too
This whole "easy-division" crap is just crap

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Oppy's picture

April 04, 2018 at 02:13 am

Nick Collins was TT's second best pick, IMO.

Also, David Bakhtiari really is a hell of a LT.
That's coming from a fan who less than two years ago thought LT was a position that could use upgrading. When the Packers paid him, I thought they made a mistake. David's play has proven me wrong.

If LT is one of the top three positions, David Bakhtiari is not a pick to scoff at. He keeps getting better and better. Near lock-down type protection for the league's best QB.

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:28 am

Not scoffing at him as a pick or player. I'm scoffing at him being the 2nd best player in a decade plus of drafting.

Bakhtiari is hardly a great run blocker. He protects well. Ever read any piece on teams being upset with the Packers blocking techniques? Look into it. It called into question just how good any of our lineman are at pass pro minus a technique that is questionable to opposing DL.

Bakhtiari will not go down as a Tony Boselli, Joe Thomas or Walter Jones. A very good player for sure but I don't think he's a shoo in for the HOF like our QB. The gulf between those two is huge.

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kevgk's picture

April 04, 2018 at 03:40 pm

I see a lot of downvotes because you compare Bahk to some HOFers, but youre not wrong. TT only drafted one HOFer in his entire tenure? Thats pretty disappointing

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Oppy's picture

April 04, 2018 at 04:37 pm

Please supply me with a link about this pass pro technique you're talking about. I'm fairly certain you are confusing this with the debate over zone blocking techniques like cut blocking, which is a run block technique.

Trying to ding David Bakhtiari's value because he plays in a zone blocking scheme doesn't make much sense to me. He is widely regarded as a top-tier LT over the last two years and he continues to develop.

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:29 pm

Nope. Not confusing it at all. It's very well documented. I will tell you this is no different than the Murphy hire and fire situation. I know what I'm talking about. That sounds wrong but it's true.

I believe it's referred to as the hug technique. Many teams have complained about it.

Check back...I wish I could link more than one article. There are many.

EDIT: Thanks, kevgk. It's the truth but that's not popular here.

For Oppy:. Google:. hug technique Packers...read the McGinn piece and the others. I'll link another one when I get a sec.

EDIT: Here's a link regarding Grady Jarrett's thoughts on our OL technique:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/24/falcons-grady-jarrett-pa...

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WKUPackFan's picture

April 04, 2018 at 06:43 pm

Tell us Cow II, why should we care about other teams complaining about the Packers blocking techniques? Campen developed a technique based on the NFL rules. Apparently you are not in favor of giving our line the best chance to succeed.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:14 pm

I agree. I don't care what other teams think, if the technique works and refs don't call penalties, I am all for it. Our offensive line looks like a well-coached unit to me.

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:26 pm

Thanks for the flattering moniker.

TGR... I don't care. It's great. Push the limits of the rules all day. All I said was there has been much written and said about the Packers borderline illegal technique and that's true. It calls into question how great any singular lineman is on our unit at pass pro. I don't cater my opinion to go with the Packers just because I'm a fan nor do you. My opinion is this is a lot like pick plays in a sense...they rarely ever get called and although they're considered illegal they're still used all the time and gotten away with. It also reminds me of Michael Irvin who made a career by pushing off and not having it called. I believe he didn't get called because he was a Cowboy and the NFL wanted them to be sold as the great America's team of old. I don't think it's much different than the NFL wanting Aaron Rodgers to light it up. The rules will tend to skew in the favor of great players like they did in basketball for MJ and the Bulls. Anyone who doesn't consider those kinds of factors is willfully ignorant of what goes on in major sports, imo.

Grady Jarrett, Michael Bennett, Cowboys DL and others have complained about the Packers blocking techniques. For the record, as big of a douche as Michael Bennett is it was noted he hadn't made similar complaints previously about other teams when he was shut out. Campen is a genius and had teams wanting to emulate what he taught because holding is rarely called even though the technique is basically holding. Spend a few minutes googling around and you'll see what I'm saying is true.

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Oppy's picture

April 04, 2018 at 08:22 pm

It's not letting my post my reply with the link to the Hug tech video

As far as your calling into question how good a player is because he plays with a great technique, I wonder if you mitigate how great Reggie White was as a pass rusher, seeing as a great number of his sacks came from his "club" technique, which no one knew how to stop until it became a tool in all DE's arsenals, and every OT had to deal with it week to week. Kinda the same thing as this.

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2018 at 08:31 pm

Oh, I was wondering if that parallel was going to be drawn. Good work as it is an excellent point. However, it doesn't take away what I was getting at that the way our OL plays calls into question just how great any single OL is minus that recent revelatory technique. Not much different than Alex Gibbs teaching his cut blocks in Denver. Yes, their line was dominant under him and that technique...the same players were not the same when not using that now outlawed technique that still shows up from time to time.

As of now, the Packers technique is not outlawed. I doubt it will be because it's not considered dangerous and only helps the NFL get what it wants and that's a superstar QB producing lots of offense. There's no argument Bakhtiari pass blocks with that technique very well, but I find it funny NOBODY cared to answer what kind of a run blocker he was. He's a guy who is successful executing a blocking technique that is basically legalized holding and is the ire of many DL. Some would say Bakh just grew into the position as he was not very good in the beginning. Perhaps, could it be, he looks so much better because of the hug technique? I think that's worthy of consideration. He's still not a dominant well rounded lineman...again, he's great at performing a legal holding technique in pass pro. Let's be clear about that. And...that's the 2nd best Ted pick? Yikes.

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Oppy's picture

April 05, 2018 at 03:28 pm

He's a left tackle.
They get paid first and foremost to protect the QB.
He does that as well as anyone in the league.

He's certainly a decent run blocker. And, yes, he's a dominating pass blocker.

I know you like to think people disagree with you because you aren't a homer. But this right here? You're going out of your way to snub a guy whose going on his second year as an all-pro. People are going to disagree with you because it's silly.

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WKUPackFan's picture

April 05, 2018 at 05:11 pm

Cow II wants people to disagree with his silly theories. He throws out "hot takes" fervently hoping that someone will point out his inaccuracies. He wants the argument. The accuracy of his hot takes is irrelevant to him.

He would be just as happy to assume a "homer" persona if he thought that would draw more disagreement.

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John Kirk's picture

April 05, 2018 at 06:42 pm

My accuracy is actually very good but you're too subjective to notice in your quest to demonize me. I understand Packers football and it's last several decades history very very well. I follow the NFL as much or more than anyone I've read here. I mean people here aren't even aware of the hug technique and that we were using it. I'm sure you didn't WKU, but that's okay, it's so much simpler as a poster to rail a guy who knows more than you do because you can't hang any other way. Trust me, buddy, I've met you over and over and over and I'll meet you again.

Oh, I neglected to address this...no, I would never fake a homer persona. That is not who I am. I'm not a homer. I'm rational and that causes issues. I would hope you could see that. If you were buying a car would you want to buy from a "homer" or a guy like me who would tell you the truth so that maybe you wouldn't buy but you'd be better informed? I know for me and my money give me an honest guy who isn't just going to tout all the great things. Give me some balance so I can better decide. I'm the yang to your yin. I don't care if you're a homer but you care that I'm not. We're different.

You keep bringing insults and I'll keep bringing strong opinion backed with logic and non homerism. It's an ecosystem. We have our roles.

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John Kirk's picture

April 05, 2018 at 06:45 pm

I disagree because I disagree not being a homer not withstanding. I have said that I think Bakhtiari is a very good pass blocker but I do feel he's the beneficiary of the legalized holding technique. I also think he's not a very good run blocker so I react to this over the top praise of this guy as if he's a HOF LT. That's the disconnect. Do you see the irony in your allegation? You think what you think about him because you are a homer? Fine. I'll tell you why I disagree from the non home perspective and play nice. It doesn't get returned from everyone but I do think you've been very fair with me even though I disagree with this particular charge.

You'll find if you study me honestly, I do react to gushing that is unwarranted. I take issue with that. Calling Bakhtiari the 2nd best player in Ted's era may be true, but if it is, I think that's laughable that he's the 2nd best player in 12 years of drafting. Again, fine player but not someone to get gaga over. When the Top 5 lists were being done awhile back I don't recall many posters putting Bakhtiari as our 2nd best player. Now, he's the 2nd best draftee in 12 years? Perhaps, I'm wrong about that. I'll get to googling...

EDIT: My memory failed me in this rare instance... Bakh was #2 on most lists and even my own but I put a qualifier on my 2nd place ranking of him saying I almost went CLark because of Bakh's average run blocking. Consistent. I don't type to wrangle. I type my perspective just like you. It's funny how my perspective is slammed here. It just has to be some agenda or trolling because it doesn't compute with you? No. It's genuine and logic based.

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The TKstinator's picture

April 05, 2018 at 06:29 pm

I wish they’d teach Spriggs the hug technique.

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John Kirk's picture

April 05, 2018 at 06:48 pm

Great stuff, TK! He feels it's wrong to hold even though Campen tells him it's "legal". :)

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Oppy's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:57 pm

Your linked article doesn't call out a "technique" used by the packers at all, it's a player claiming the refs let the Packers get away with holding, and that they didn't during this game, and that's why the Falcons won. This is also in the three paragraph article you linked to:

"The Packers averaged six penalties for 52 yards a game in the regular season and were called for six penalties for 63 yards against the Falcons, so it’s not like the officials were unusually hard on Green Bay in the NFC Championship Game."

I will look for more evidence, as you requested. But this article did nothing to bolster your statement.

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2018 at 08:02 pm

I know it doesn't. I asked you to google: hug technique Packers

I'd assumed you did that so you'd already be familiar with what I was referring to.

My posting of the Grady commentary was to further back up the claims of what was said in the "hug technique" articles. There are a lot of them out there on the Packers tactics. I used Jarrett to show this isn't some wild accusation...it's based off the hug technique teaching that has drawn ire and copy from teams. Jarrett speaking to this after destroying us in Atlanta can't be written off as sour grapes or excuse making. Weird that he'd bring up how the Packers OL get away with holding after they shellacked us in the NFC Championship game. Not something he'd be talking about unless there was something there in that kind of context.

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Michael Hughes's picture

April 04, 2018 at 03:14 am

Eh ?

Getting a franchise LT argued by some to be the best in the league in the 4th round ?????

Short of hitting on a franchise QB (which is covered by number 1) , draft home runs dont get much better than that.

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HankScorpio's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:47 am

Exactly. LT is a marquee position. Bakh is not just good, he's All-Pro caliber. That's a big jump up from Pro Bowl caliber. That's the best of the best.

There are plenty of things to discuss about this list. Citing Bakh at #2 as an indicator of overall weakness is foolish, IMO.

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EddieLeeIvory's picture

April 03, 2018 at 07:13 pm

Jennings below Kenny Clark is incorrect unless you're psychic.
And he should be above Hayward.

Matthews HAS to be #2. He's so unappreciated by much of Cheeseville.

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marpag1's picture

April 04, 2018 at 01:54 am

Virtually everybody except Aaron Rodgers is unappreciated in Cheeseville. And now some brilliant folks are saying that we need to dump Rodgers and rebuild.

The astroturf is always greener on the other side of the division.

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Oppy's picture

April 04, 2018 at 02:18 am

Nick Collins was a once-in-a-decade type talent at Safety. His range and instincts were off the charts. Reed, Polamalu, Collins. But that range really set Nick apart.

Clay Matthews has been a great player, but he's nowhere near as special at his position as Collins was at his.

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HankScorpio's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:52 am

Nick Collins joins Tim Lewis in the All-Time "what could have been" list for the Packers. Sterling Sharpe was another but he got quite a few years in before his injury. It still makes me sad that all 3 of those guys had their careers cut short.

Jermichael Finley in another guy in that picture although he was not nearly as dominant at his position as those other 3.

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dobber's picture

April 04, 2018 at 09:48 am

I've always argued that Sterling Sharpe's injury was one of the best things to happen for Favre's career. It also led to the emergence of Edgar Bennett and then Dorsey Levens in the backfield. Whether A--->B or whether it was the natural evolution based on the RBs and available talent is up for debate.

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Oppy's picture

April 04, 2018 at 04:47 pm

Dobber,

This is a beautiful parallel to my thoughts on what I believe may have been a contributing factor in the Packers decision to let Jordy Nelson go now instead of keeping him on the roster, even at an affordable, team and cap friendly pricetag.

His presence on the field is such a security blanket for Rodgers that it may be stifling the development of other players- and the offense as a whole.

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Oppy's picture

April 05, 2018 at 03:34 pm

It would have depended on if Jordy decided to actually pick up his game and play through the whistle or not.

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Fire_Gute's picture

April 03, 2018 at 07:14 pm

Did think there was any way Cobb should be 15th, then I looked at the rest of the list. Sadly, he's probably about in the right spot. And Mike Neal never found any success after he left because no one ever signed him. It kinda baffles me who he pissed off. Datone was with 4 teams last year and he got cut after the Vikings gave him a 4 year deal,and Neal couldn't even get a tryout. And Brandon Jackson needs to be like number 100. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Lots of guys we were excited about for a season or two.

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Oppy's picture

April 04, 2018 at 02:22 am

Mike Neal had (perhaps HAS) a lingering PED connection hanging over his head.

You may remember a scandal that broke- a bunch of Packers were interviewed (including Peppers and Matthews, neither of which seemed too happy about being asked to talk about something they said they had nothing to do with). Mike Neal became a strong person of interest in the entire case. I believe it went beyond the Packers' locker room and across the league.

He must have been in really hot water- no one across the league would touch him. The NFL got really quiet about that particular case, too...

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Fire_Gute's picture

April 04, 2018 at 06:38 am

I remember the story. It was pretty much debunked as far as I remember. The story was broke by a terrorist organization masquerading as a news station, AL Jezerra. They didn't do sports, had no connections in the industry, and closed their doors in America like a week after the story broke. The main source of information, Charlie Sly, admitted he made the whole thing up. I also think it came out around the Super Bowl, the terrorists way of trying to throw some bull at our game. That being said, he was a powerlifter and so was his dad. Powerlifting and cycling are about the 2 dirtiest sports their are.

Neal was the classic TT square peg/ round hole pick. He had 19 sacks in 6 years. That's 3.2 a year. I don't care if he's a DE playing OLB or whatever he was, that's not 2nd rd pick production. 5 sacks out of a second round pass rusher should be a down year or a rookie year, not a career year.

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Oppy's picture

April 04, 2018 at 05:19 pm

Fox News, Jim Nantz and Mike Ditka all threw out the allegations, but it seems the rest of the press who actually looked into the connections and claims did not. The dots all seem to connect the way they were portrayed by the Al-Jazeera piece. Charlie Sly is definitely a liar; but his recanting was actually more fraudulent than his statements he now claims were not true (for instance, saying he wasn't a pharmacist.. but there's a license in his name.. etc. etc. )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Side:_Secrets_of_the_Sports_Dopers

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Fire_Gute's picture

April 05, 2018 at 01:46 am

If there was a shred of truth to the story, there's no way that Matthews, peppers and Harrison all sat down with Goodell and no one got suspended, even for a game. And they were threatened with suspension if they didn't cooperate. The fact that AL Jezerra closed their doors right after the story only makes me feel stronger. None of the baseball players got suspended either.

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Oppy's picture

April 05, 2018 at 04:08 pm

Teargarden got thumped for an 80 game suspension.

As it turns out, independent investigation showed Al-Jazeera's story, and specifically, Sly's hidden camera statements (which he 'recanted') all seem to actually have logical connection and held up to scrutiny by and independent reporter from the New York Times. He wrote an article about his findings. (sorry, won't let me post links now.)

On the previous link to the wikipedia entry, read and follow links under "Reactions" and "Further Investigations".

The NFL probably wants the whole thing to go away because they can't afford a PED scandal.. mostly because so many football players in the league use PEDs. They have no real authority to force the players to cooperate (although they tried really hard) and, as I stated, my guess is they would rather pretend the problem doesn't exist.

I'm not saying all these guys were guilty. I am saying, anyone sweeping the al-jazeera story under the rug is being willfully ignorant IMO. There's too much corroboration. Smoke, Fire, yadda yadda yadda.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

April 04, 2018 at 03:20 am

I'd probably put Neal in Tier One, but towards the bottom of that Tier. He did become a competent starter. He was drafted #56. He added value to the team. He did have 4 to 5 sacks in each of his last 4 seasons. He spent 2 years playing the wrong position. Not a good draft pick, but far from a bust.

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nostradanus's picture

April 03, 2018 at 07:21 pm

Thompson's record of hits in the draft, I am guessing would be in GM's top ten for the past decade. The old white hair was pretty crafty and he was also a bit of a miser in free agency, but usually chose wisely. Playoffs 8 out of 9 years, three Championship games and a Super Bowl win. I'll be happy with that if Herr Gute can duplicate or beat that.
Thanks for a great decade Ted!
Good Luck Herr Gute!
Go Pack!

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flackcatcher's picture

April 03, 2018 at 07:33 pm

Agree. Fair assessment. Thompson will look better as we get farther away from his tenure. Will always be burdened with 2014 NFL championship game with actions of a coach and team on the field.

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John Kirk's picture

April 03, 2018 at 08:17 pm

I always felt the exact opposite. I think Ted will be viewed as the guy who squandered the career of the GOAT the more we look back on it.

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flackcatcher's picture

April 03, 2018 at 10:20 pm

BS John. (Sorry to be blunt) NFC had 5 teams every year that the Packers had to get though. That the Packers were deep in the playoffs pretty much though Thompson's tenure speaks volumes about his stewardship of the team. Two years, only two were they out of the hunt. 2008, and last year. By comparison New England has had only two teams challenge team in the past decade. (Steelers and Chiefs. And no I don't count the Ravens who dismantled their their team for a second tier QB.) By any measure Thompson was a successful GM in this league. We are not judging coaching or team play here. The question is, did Ted Thompson set the table to make the Green Bay Packers a very successful football team over the last decade. The answer is a resounding YES!

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Fire_Gute's picture

April 03, 2018 at 11:46 pm

I agree 100 percent John. If we pull off a super bowl in the next two or 3 years it will really make him look worse. For as good as it was the first couple of years, it's been equally awful the last few if not worse.
We were always building for the future. This is the future and it doesn't look real good. Not one pro bowler out of this group that has a lot of money wrapped up into it.
It should be impossible to spend this many draft picks on one part of the team and have it suck so bad. Yes I get that Hyde and Hayward did good with a better system. But so many high misses, Jones, Neal, Rollins, Worthy. Guys who couldn't play elsewhere either. I said before that I know all GMs miss in the draft, but they either get players from free agency or trades or turn into the Browns and Jets.
It's no coincidence that this season is the one that pushed TT out. The season where 12 truly showed how great he is, how bad this team is, and why TT and MM are overrated as can possibly be.

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JohnnyLogan's picture

April 04, 2018 at 01:12 pm

That's not what to strive for with an All-World QB

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Denver's picture

April 03, 2018 at 07:53 pm

Couldn't help myself and went straight to the bottom of the list...yikes!
I always wondered who scouted Cory Rodgers. Tough to be a returner when you can't even catch the punt....

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4thand1's picture

April 03, 2018 at 08:34 pm

Who is this Aaron Rodgers guy? Brad Jones is to high.

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stockholder's picture

April 03, 2018 at 09:33 pm

I think I could move a lot of those players around. Eye is in the beholder. {In Ted we Trust. It wasn't just a phrase} TT didn't care what we thought back then. We knew he could do better. He had problems and not enough problem solvers. He should have done better.

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dobber's picture

April 03, 2018 at 09:53 pm

There are too many players high on the list with two zeroes in the year of their selection. Tells you how the Packers got to where they are now.

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HankScorpio's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:34 am

Comment of the thread for me, anyways.

TT delivered a SB win. I don't want to get into a big long bitch-fest over him because of that. Whatever the issues may or may not be, it's all water under the bridge now.

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Minniman's picture

April 03, 2018 at 11:18 pm

I'll be interested to see how those mid round O-line picks pan out from here on.

The jury for me is out as to whether TT is a master O-line talent evaluator or if James Campen is a master O-line coach (or both)?

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4thand1's picture

April 03, 2018 at 11:35 pm

We've had a pretty good run. Here's to Gute, change and moving on. We have a few more years of great QB play, all we need is a few pieces to the puzzle.

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packerfan9507's picture

February 13, 2019 at 01:51 am

Go Pack

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croatpackfan's picture

April 04, 2018 at 02:13 am

You put 37.8% of TT picks in tier 1. and 68.1% in first 2 tiers.

I think that is pretty good if not excellent result for one GM.

I will agree that TT has flows. Everybody has. But, regarding draft, I think TT was more than very good...

But, that is my opinion, I know many would not like...

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NickPerry's picture

April 04, 2018 at 05:50 am

How can you say that? With the exception of about 15 players this is a list of JAGS or something even worse! Your undying fondness and support of Ted Thompson even after last year when the WHOLE WORLD got to see just how ill-prepared this team was to play without Rodgers is baffling.

He was put in the role he now is to save face. ANY other organization with a owner would have fired his ass 3 or 4 years ago. The writer was so desperate for "Tier 1 Players" he's listing guys that played less than a half of season. HOW can you call them a Tier 1 player?

LOL....Gimmie a break...

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WKUPackFan's picture

April 04, 2018 at 06:06 am

It is interesting that you chose to attack croat instead of any of the other posters pointing out that TT, in fact, had many successful draft selections.

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NickPerry's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:01 am

Attack??? I don't "Attack" people on this site, never have never will. I merely asked a simple question...How can he continue to support a GM who 95% of the media, fans, and so called "Experts" have now admitted he stayed on about 3 or 4 years too long.

Success is really a matter of opinion. I happen to think he had maybe 15 - 20 rock solid picks and I think including King, Jones, Williams, and Josh Jones as Tier 1 picks is a bit premature to say the least. I mean when 3 of those four have played in less than 10 games how can you call them successful yet? Clearly the author is reaching but it all comes down to opinion. Mine is Thompson was a putz who rode ONE players jock-strap to 13 seasons as GM in GB.

Lets agree to disagree... I think Thompson LIVED of his very first pick and if he hadn't drafted Rodgers would have been fired in less than 5 seasons. I mean the 2 seasons Rodgers has been hurt they were LUCKY in 2013 to squeak in at 8-7-1, another season where Thompson didn't have the Packers prepared in the event of a Rodgers injury. The ONLY thing that saved him was when his stubborn ass FINALLY brought back Flynn to salvage the season until the Rodgers to Cobb miracle in Chicago on 4th and 8. Then last season they did the EXACT same thing. NO back-up QB who was ready to step in. Christ they've even admitted it. How sad.

In a what have you done for me lately league Thompson hasn't done diddly.

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WKUPackFan's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:45 am

"Your undying fondness and support of Ted Thompson....LOL....Gimmie a break" - is an attack. You are literally laughing in ridicule of croat.

You did not answer the question of why you singled out croat.

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croatpackfan's picture

April 04, 2018 at 06:13 am

Nick, that is your opinion.

I still think that Mark Murphy diagnosed well what became the main problems with Packers football - lack of inside comunication. I think that falls pretty heavy on TT back. When you have lack of communicatiion isnide the company the most responsible for that is the the most responsible position - in this case GM.

But, whatever you may have against TT, it is not possible that someone built championship team (and TT did it) and be assessed as failure.

As I already mention: "I will agree that TT has flows." And I believe that change at GM position is good for Packers. Again by my opinion (based on several articles wrote from people I learned they have quality info about situation inside Packers organization), that "step down" or change allowed Mike McCarthy to make liftover on D and on O.

I think we should try to be more rationale in asessments of the former leadership. That is why I think this article is perfect for discussion. Andrew nailed it. We can discuss who is miss and who is JAG or who is bust. Who deserve to be in that top tier. But lets try to do that with some dignity...

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NickPerry's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:11 am

Hmmmm..Interesting... I didn't think I was being undignified but okay.

What I have against Thompson is he's had a HOF QB and now Rodgers as his ONLY QB's in his time in GB and still managed to make it to one SB. He allowed Capers to stay when McCarthy wouldn't fire him. He refused to make trades and be active in FA. He had 5 or the 6 numbers for the Winning lottery ticket and still refused to play.

I come with facts Croat and please don't question my dignity. If you felt attacked I apologize but after reading my comment to you I see no where in the comment where you would feel attacked as WKU suggested. I asked a simple question and asked how you can continue to support a man who more and more people have questioned.

I'm still waiting for the facts by the way, at least ones which if Rodgers wasn't on this squad where they'd have a snowballs chance in hell of even making the playoffs the last few years.

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croatpackfan's picture

April 05, 2018 at 02:12 am

NIck, I should be more clear. When I wrote "dignity" remark I ment all of us, not you personally... I appologize for this misunderstanding...

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worztik's picture

April 04, 2018 at 09:54 am

Nick, Your opinions are right on!!! What bothers me here is how WKU has recently appeared here after a long and well received Hiatus and, once again, attempts to stir up a hornets nest by defending posters that don’t need defending! If Nick and Croat are having a “thing” where they have different opinions, so be it!!! You need to stay out of it WKU... I thought your only purpose in life was to disrespect John Kirk for his OPINIONS, as well. Stay out of places you’re not wanted... I profile you as a mad, black women with identity issues that is just very unhappy with her life... then again, you could be a mad, white woman with identity issues that is just very unhappy with her life!!! Either way, you do not post like a man... you post like the angry chick that can’t roll with the cool girls!!! Just sayin’... keep outta other people’s posts!!!!!

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Savage57's picture

April 04, 2018 at 08:02 am

Croat, I don't always agree with your positions or how you see things, but I'll offer this:

I've paid attention to your commentary over the years and have watched as your command of your second language has grown. Just wanted to toss that ouy there as a prop to you.

If I tried to post something in Croatian, people would either be peeing their pants while laughing or trying to find out where I live.

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croatpackfan's picture

April 04, 2018 at 08:58 am

Thank you. That means a lot to me because I try to be better in English ..

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worztik's picture

April 04, 2018 at 10:01 am

Croat, Savage57 hit the nail on the head! Your English as a second language is admirable... you post and make less errors than some of us geezers here! Keep learning and enjoy the ride on the GREEN BAY PACKERS’ train... yer OK, buddy!!!

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blue eyes's picture

April 04, 2018 at 04:02 pm

The negative phrase "he's a Jag" has lost its meaning. They're a pretty damn good team now.

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DD's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:52 am

Single picks, some good. But overall team building, NO.

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Michael Hughes's picture

April 04, 2018 at 03:17 am

Nit picking but Spitz wasnt a bust.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

April 04, 2018 at 03:45 am

Josh Jones probably should be close to last in Tier One. Certainly was a disappointing season. Not at all clear that he has a position he can play. He was my draft crush and is loaded with talent, but outside of one game, production was extremely limited.

There probably should be a tier for "To Be Determined."

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marpag1's picture

April 04, 2018 at 03:49 am

Thumbs up, primarily for the last statement.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

April 04, 2018 at 09:48 am

I am still really high on Josh Jones, but really his grade is TBD. Other TBD:

Biegel
M Adams
Trevor Davis (arguably I suppose)
Kyle Murphy (arguably)
Spriggs (wouldn't be the 1st good player to take 3 yrs)
Davante Mays

3rd Tier:
Amichia
Yancey

Bust Tier:
Fackrell (again, wouldn't be the 1st guy to need 3 years)

Now that I am looking at this some more, Janis as a 7th rounder provided 4 years with a noticeable contribution on STs. Probably belongs in Tier One, though again near the bottom. I debated whether Rollins is a bust, but so far he is, and his injury doesn't make me optimistic. Questionable still. I am grading on a curve here.

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dobber's picture

April 04, 2018 at 09:56 am

I honestly think Fackrell is another case of a defensive player that hasn't been used effectively. I think some saw him as the heir apparent to CMIII when he was drafted based on his athleticism and an ability to play on the other side of the LOS in college. He's not (at least to this point) been physical enough to play on the edge regularly in a 3-4. I would argue that he's a WLB in an even front or an ILB in an odd front. I wouldn't be surprised--if he makes the roster in September--if that's how he's used. Otherwise, he's just a core ST player, and a bust in rd. 3.

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sonomaca's picture

April 04, 2018 at 10:36 am

I don’t think draft picks lower than round 4 should be given the “bust” designation. You really can’t expect anything from low draft picks.

BTW: don’t agree Fackrell is a bust. He contributed in 2017. Spriggs isn’t a busy just yet. He might be playing out of position. He’s a TE.

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marpag1's picture

April 04, 2018 at 12:21 pm

It's just my dumb pet peeve, TGR, but personally I've never had much time for these sorts of rudderless arguments. I understand that rudderless arguments are pretty much what being a fan on a fan board is all about, but some of the arguments are more rudderless than others.

I guess what I mean by rudderless is that people toss out vague, ill-defined terms, descriptions and cliches, and then argue, often comically, about which players do or do not fit their meaningless descriptions. We all know the list by now. Is Player X to be included in the list of ... "franchise QBs, elite players, difference makers, shutdown and/or lock down corners, guys who tilt the field, guys who make everybody better, blue chippers, transcendent players, studs, busts, JAGs, journeymen, etc. etc. etc.

Of course everyone will bitch, "How can you say that Cam Newton is elite?!?!? Geez, are you an idiot??" But no one will actually define what elite means. People yammer on about "difference makers," apparently not considering the fact that bad players make a difference as much as good players do.

This article is pretty tame by those standards, but the "tiers" idea is almost guaranteed to be dubious. Tier 4 are "busts." Got it. I understand that Tier 2 is defined as those players who "had a small cup of coffee on the team" ... so, uh.... that's a step towards clarity, I guess.

Like I said, just a dumb pet peeve.

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bodei1newbie1's picture

April 04, 2018 at 04:54 am

they should have gotten rid of ted years ago now it's going to be a up hill battle to get the packers right again

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Coldworld's picture

April 04, 2018 at 06:28 am

Some busts are inevitable. Overall, TT did very well in the first half of his reign. The second half saw a gradual tail off accelerate into a nose dive. His last draft may possibly prove to have been better but I see no definitive proof.

I have to suspect that this decline indicates a GM who was not as acute in selecting the people he began to delegate to. If so, that is on Mark Murphy for not noticing. Sometimes it seems, GMs remain for the proverbial year or two too long, not just aging stars.

I do think that the loss of Collins was a major misfortune. He was entering his prime and would have been, I think, clearly the best player drafted by Ted not named AR. That is no insult to Matthews, who has been great without consistent support for most of his career.

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DD's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:50 am

Some very good picks as individuals, but never built a total solid unit during any year since 2010. Will it change now? Had to break tradition.

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RCPackerFan's picture

April 04, 2018 at 07:55 am

I like the tiers. That really helps distinguish the players who played at higher levels to lower.

I like Rodgers being #1 and Brohm being #119.

In between honestly we could debate on who goes where.
IMO, Mathews would be #2, Collins #3, Bakhtiari #4, Jennings #5, Daniels #6, Sitton/Lang #7/8, Nelson #9

The hard part in doing these types of rankings is where do you rank players 3 years or younger? Until we see their whole careers its tough.

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Razer's picture

April 04, 2018 at 09:34 am

For my part, I am glad that Ted Thompson came to and led the Packer organization. He pulled us out of the Mike Sherman death spiral and put us on a good path. I am also glad that Ted stepped aside and this team made both coaching and org changes. Regardless where you put these draft picks, we needed to address the disconnect between scouting, player acquisition and coaching. Gutekunst needs to finish the job that Thompson started.

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Oppy's picture

April 04, 2018 at 05:43 pm

The biggest issue I had with Lacy -was- his spin move.

It's almost like Eddie never fully accepted that his body changed. He still saw himself as a 210 lbs, slashing type back, as opposed to the big bodied 230,240,250, 2xx? lbs back he became.

He could have been much more effective and useful to the team if he played the battering, rumbling, bruising back that punished defenders down in and down out, and occasionally reminded would-be tacklers that he could still spin out of a tackle or cut back quickly.

Instead, he always tried to spin. Always tried to juke. Even head up on a cornerback. I wish he would have played the bull first, ballerina second... I will say, it looked like he finally "got it" his final year- he was barrelling through guys. Then the injury. And gone.

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Point-Packer's picture

April 05, 2018 at 02:22 pm

Totally agree with this. Lacy was always tagged as a "power back", but in reality he played like a "scat back" in a Natrone Means body. Never that good in short yardage situations, a fact often overlooked.

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Hawg Hanner's picture

April 05, 2018 at 11:14 am

Where in the world did the conception that Ted Thompson was a good judge of talent. When we get to the 30's on this list we are already looking at just adequate players. And this list goes back to the start!
Ted Thompson should just go away lucky he lasted as long as he did. I wouldn't ask that guy what time it was, he'd probably be off on that.

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Ustabeayooper's picture

April 05, 2018 at 02:07 pm

You can criticize TT's failure to use free agency to better the team but his drafting was pretty good. The results speak for themselves. To be competitive for a SB for the better part of a decade in the super competitive NFC will probably not be duplicated. Let's see what other teams can match his record. Let's face it. Packer fans have been spoiled. I hope Gutey can continue this success. Living through the 70's and 80's gives one a different perspective.

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Point-Packer's picture

April 05, 2018 at 02:19 pm

Disagree. You take #12 out of the equation, a pick that was the purest definition of a no-brainer, then Ted looks pretty average. Lots of high draft picks to guys that were out of the league in less than three years and head scratching reaches and positional picks. No one in their right mind drafts Brohm at 56. Richard Rodgers in the 3rd? Could have gotten him in the 5th (or later). Spriggs in the 2nd - after trading up? Guy was a project that you could have drafted in the 4th (or even 5th some say). He didn't draft a punter in the 1st round, but he had some equivalents. Packers thin depth at multiple positions right now is a direct consequence of some really poor drafting from TT. TT was average (at best) in the draft.

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Oppy's picture

April 05, 2018 at 04:14 pm

I would like to see comparative lists of draft picks over the last 12 years by a number of different GM's.

I have a feeling fans might not have a very solid handle on how draft pick success over a long term usually breaks down.

I also have a feeling the Packers under TT did just fine when comparing to the league draft "success rate" over the long term- even with all of the misses on the defensive side of the draft over the last many years.

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Point-Packer's picture

April 05, 2018 at 07:20 pm

That may be true on the front end of TT's career as GB GM, but the second half of his tenure I would be surprised if his cumulative drafts were in the top 16 in the league. 2015 is one of the worst GB drafts I have ever seen.

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Oppy's picture

April 09, 2018 at 12:43 am

not looking at year by year- assessing by total volume of work.

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