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Panthers 31 Packers 24: Game Balls & Lame Calls

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Panthers 31 Packers 24: Game Balls & Lame Calls

The Green Bay Packers made it interesting with the return of Aaron Rodgers and a late onside kick recovery to give them new life.  But the magic ran out there as a Geronimo Allison fumble gave away the game and any realistic chance the Packers had to win this game and extend the season.

On to the day's best and worst.

Game Balls

Davante Adams

Returned after suffering an early injury and caught the Packers' first touchdown of the game.  He's the team's best pass catcher regardless of who's at quarterback.

During an interception return, Adams was leveled by Panthers linebacker Thomas Davis, Sr.  The hit was egregious and dirty.  Adams needs to have his head on a swivel during plays like that one but how many shots does he need to take this year?  It's the second time Adams has taken an unnecessary hit to the head.  And he got back up both times. 

Unfortunately after getting up this time, Adams was not able to return to play play after the Davis hit and his absence was felt on offense.  It was a microcosm of this season for the Packers: key guys out time after time.

Justin Vogel

Vogel only punted twice but he pinned Carolina deep in their own territory with a kick that was downed at the five-yard line.  At that point there was enough time for Carolina to conceivably score before half and were also set to get the ball to start the second half as well.  That was probably his best kick of the year.

Kenny Clark

The defensive tackles don't get a lot of love in the stat column.  It's just not the nature of their job in this defense.  Clark managed the only sack and added in eight tackles as well.  He's improved a lot this season and will continue to team up with Mike Daniels and make the middle of the Green Bay defense a barren wasteland for opponents.

Randall Cobb

A team-high seven catches and a touchdown.  We may not get to see another performance like that from Cobb in a Packers uniform so I'm taking the opportunity to recognize it and the seven seasons he's spent in Green Bay.

Richard Rodgers

Rodgers stepped up at the end of the game when the offense needed it.  His touchdown catch brought the Packers within one score and for a moment, Rodgers made us all forget that clown that was brought in during the offseason.  

Aaron Rodgers

Rodgers wasn't great on this day but I am crediting him for his efforts to be out there in the first place.  I don't think many of us who wanted the Packers to win and maximize what they could from this season would have minded some rust from #12.  He wasn't other-worldly in this game but his mere presence gave more anticipation and hope for this season.  

Lame Calls

Dom Capers

Time to hit the road, Ernest Dominic Capers.  

I started lobbying for the removal of Capers after the playoff loss to Arizona in 2015.  Here we are two seasons later and his defense is on embarrassing display once again.  Tight end Greg Olsen: nine catches, 116 yards and one touchdown catch in which not a single Packers defender was on the TV screen.  Only one word to describe that: pathetic.

Capers came in with his usual, predictable and antiquated zone coverage scheme and expected guys like Jermaine Whitehead, Josh Hawkins and Josh Jones to play it well.  And the result was the same as it has been in every season-ending loss: failure.

I'm not wasting any more words on Capers, it's time to go.

Geronimo Allison

I don't care how good of a play the defender made to knock the ball out after his catch late in the fourth quarter.  You can't fumble the ball there.  Season-ending fumble is an automatic lame call.

Thomas Davis, Sr.

Forget all of the accolades he's received on and off the field and how much respect he garners.  His blindside of Adams on the interception return was dirty and disgusting.  I don't buy Davis hanging his head in remorse after the play.  I also don't buy that the NFL is trying to protect players if Davis was allowed to return after that.  They might as well just own that they don't really care and deal with that backlash instead of that which comes from lying to fans and players.

2017 Season

It came to an end in Carolina and you can cling to the mathematical scenarios that keep hope alive for the Packers but I'm calling it a year.  After what I saw from the defense and knowing which guys they have and who they don't have for the rest of the way, it's easier for this guy to move on now.

When's baseball?

-------------------

Jason is a freelance writer on staff since 2012 and also co-hosts Pulse of the Pack podcast.  You can follow him on Twitter here

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (103) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

sheppercheeser's picture

I'm of the opinion that when an offending player knocks an opposing player out of the game, said-offender should be out just as many plays, just as many games as the opposing player has to endure.

GBPDAN1's picture

I agree, sheppercheeser. Especially we the refs throw a flag, which means it wasn't clean

Bearmeat's picture

SEASON LONG GAME BALLS: (in no particular order)

1. Blake Martinez - Solid improvement

2. Damarious Randall - Solid improvement. Now grow up off the field.

3. Jahri Evans - Great signing for the money. I wouldn't mind seeing him on another 1 year next year.

4. Davante Adams - Must sign. Deserves every penny he gets.

5. Kenny Clark and Dean Lowry - Excellent year 2 improvements. Looking forward to a solid DL for years.

6. Justin Vogel - Nice to have a good and young punter.

7. David Bakhtiari - When you got healthy, you balled out.

8. Lane Taylor/Corey Linsley - Solid. Unspectacular. But got the job done.

9. Morgan Burnett - You'll be gone after this year, but you did a great job in green and gold.

SEASON LONG LAME CALLS: (in no particular order)

1. Ted Thompson - When your high defensive draft picks suck or are injured year after year, that's on personnel too. Oh, and Marty B is a loser. THE DOOR, SIR.

2. Mike McCarthy - When you have Zeus at QB and you manage to lose what will probably be 9 games because your defense STILL sucks, for going on 8 years straight, you get a lame call.

3. DOM EFFING CAPERS - THE DOOR, SIR.

4. Nick Perry - You really sucked down the stretch because you got hurt again. I'm willing to give you one more year to stay healthy. After that, it's time to cut bait.

5. Clay Matthews the Third - The door, sir.

6. HaHa Clinton Dix - Either you had an undisclosed injury all year, or you just really regressed. I'm guessing the latter. You get 1 more year to figure it out too.

7. INJURIES - I HATE INJURIES

8. Randall Cobb - Love ya Randall, but you cant outrace LBs anymore. You were never fast, and your explosiveness is now gone. You're good on rub routes and scramble drills and that's it.

9. Jordy Nelson - No wheels left. Great Packer. One of my faves. Thanks for the memories. But it's time to cut that salary or move on.

10. Bryan Bulaga - Love ya Bryan, but you have no knees left. See #8 and 9. Ditto.

Nick Perry's picture

Excellent points on the few bright spots BM. IMO the Packers should switch to a 4-3 defense simply because of the few decent players they have on defense. A D-Line of Lowry, Daniels, Clark, and Perry would actually be a pretty decent D-Line and Martinez and Ryan a good start at LB.

Bearmeat's picture

The DL would be ok, but neither of our current ILBs has the coverage range for a 43 defense. It would be awful. We need 225-235 OLBs and a 245ish MLB in a 43.

J Jones might be able to be WOLB. But that's the only fit we'd have.

stockholder's picture

Correct Bear.

Bearmeat's picture

Actually, now that I think about it, it might be easier to get a SOLB and a WOLB than it would two separate 34 OLBs... which is what we need.

But still, not ideal. Our two young ILBs are ascending players. Why ditch them and the pure NT we have? Doesn't make sense. We are stuck with the 34 for a while.

stockholder's picture

Yep. But I think they should. Jones to OLB like Brian urlacker? Or keep him at Safety? CB= Randall must stay at CB . He's not smart enough to play Safety either. ILB= None are long term. So Take the Best A Player. Next trade 2 and 3 pick to go back in the 1st and get the Second BPA.

Razer's picture

Josh Jones doesn't know his role or assignments in this defense. Either he is dumb or confused

TXCHEESE's picture

Uhm...he's a rookie, that has been moved around due to injuries. Has he missed assignments? Yes, but he's a player and will be so much better in year 2.

RCPackerFan's picture

Capers actually has ran the 4-3 a quite a bit this year.

Honestly, I think the 3-4 is fine. Most of the best defenses run a 3-4. I just think the sub packages need work. Playing nickel with 2 DL series after series and expecting them to be great at stopping the run, is just stupid.
IMO, they should have used a 3-3 look more then a 2-4. Used Lowry, Clark, Daniels and Perry as the OLB. Then had Mathews and Martinez as the ILB's. It essentially would be a 4-2 look.

They need a new D Coordinator.

RCPackerFan's picture

Touching on your points.

1 - YES! Martinez was a stud this year and deserves pro bowl votes.
2 - Randall has been very good since getting benched.
3 - Evans was good the first part of the year though has dropped off since. I think he will retire. I don't think they will bring him back.
4-9 - Agreed on everything.

Lame calls -

1,3 - IMO Both need to go. But my question with this is do both need to go? Is it scheme or players? I think Capers needs to go first. I think Thompson has given Capers enough talent, but he doesn't know how to use it. Capers is trying to take square pegs and fit them in round holes. But then again perhaps Thompson has given him to many square pegs, when he need to give more round pegs.
Which is it? I say a little of both.

2 - McCarthy is to loyal at times. He has been to loyal with Capers. Hopefully he realizes this is it and needs a restart.

5 - I disagree. He has been the only pass rushing threat basically all season. While he has lost a step, and isn't the guy he used to be, he still has value. I also think with a different coordinator they may find a better role for him.

6 - Clinton-Dix did regress, but a lot of it is on Capers too. Having him dropping 35+ yards off the LOS down after down. How do you expect a guy to be a play maker doing that?

8,9 - While I would like to see them return, they have to upgrade the WR corps. They need bigger, faster guys. Thompson may need to look at the 1st/2nd rounds to draft a guy.

7 - Each and every year the injuries end our season. This year was the one to Rodgers. We deserve a year without injuries.

stockholder's picture

Capers should go. And take Moss with him. Just because Martinez had a good year. The rest of the Lbs have not. Someone needs to shake these guys up. The coaches have done what Capers wanted. My bet is TT is not going to break away from the 3-4-4. He will hire another 3-4-4 guy first. It would cost him to many picks to go to the 9 man front. But he should.!! I also want Jones @ LB. (The bears moved Brian Urlacker years ago.) Move Jones to LB. Or get that kid to play safety right. Put Perry back on the Line. This defense needs more pass rush. And someone needs to be more creative than capers moving Mathews and Perry around.

RCPackerFan's picture

Well the coaches hiring is on MM, not TT. I think the 3-4 is fine. But they need one that is more aggressive and one that changes their looks up more. I know their personalities don't match but I think a coordinator like Rex Ryan would get a lot more out of what they have.

I agree about Jones at ILB. There are a ton of guys like him playing ILB. Buchanan from Arizona is a perfect example.

I think Capers kind of screwed Jones this year. He had him playing ILB a lot, then had him at Safety most of the rest of the year. Well decide, if he is an ILB then play him there. if he is a S then play him there. Asking a Rookie to do both is a lot.

Completely agree about need someone more creative in moving Mathews around.

fthisJack's picture

agree with just about everything except Burnett. if resigning is not too costly....keep him. he is great in the box and would be better if it wasn't for Capers bizarro defensive schemes. we can't be letting a key piece of the secondary get away again this year like Hyde and Heyward!

al bundy's picture

Wow too bad they can't show the door to the guys you mentioned Ted only gets so many shitty late round picks to screw up. Wow he sure knows how to pick bums.

Nick Perry's picture

Game Balls...Randall...I've been super critical of this kid and called him a bust earlier in the year. Randall's play the last 3 or 4 games have given be some hope the Packers have at least one guy who can play CB next season.

Rodgers...I REFUSE to place blame on a man who normally carries at least 50 of the 53 man roster to victory. He was OUT 8 weeks yet people are ready to hang this loss completely on him. He was the only reason they weren't blown out! He's also the reason they were even 4-1 when he was injured.

Jordy Nelson...I know he didn't do anything yesterday to justify a game ball. But this one is for the years of outstanding play. I have a horrible feeling Nelson is much closer to the end than I thought he perhaps was. Lets hope that's not the case.

Lame Calls.....Mike McCarthy.... Ran Aaron Jones twice in the 2nd quarter I believe it was for 43 yards and Jones got one more carry the rest of the way. I'm now convinced McCarthy could have Walter Payton in the backfield and he still run 10 times. He CAN'T help himself. Doe he even KNOW how to use TO effectively??

HHCD...On the Butt Cheek TD HHCD was in a position to at least TRY to knock the ball away. The replays all show him standing over the WR looking at him and doing nothing. Maybe a dive at the receiver to try a jar the ball lose, something. This has become the standard for HHCD it seems this season. I guess the bogus Pro Bowl nod after last season went to his head. Hey Dix, EVERYBODY makes the Pro Bowl nowadays, it's not a big deal anymore.

Capers...Just the mention of his name upsets me because we should have stopped mentioning him in 2012 or the very least after 2014.

Thompson....For another season without a SB and a team that hasn't seemed this far away since 2005. This team is severely lacking talent. Other than a handful of players a complete reboot is necessary.

Bearmeat's picture

NP,

Did you read this? Devastating. And accurate. TT and Dom need to GO.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/12/17/silverstein...

Nick Perry's picture

Thanks BM..Just read it now after you shared the link. At least Silverstein finally said SOMETHING. That's half the problem with the Packers "Beat Writers", they NEVER corner McCarthy or Thompson at the podium and ask the simple question what the hell is going on here? Why is Capers still here? And Ted, why oh why do you continue to leave the one of the two best QB EVER without a defense and now a offense that's close to needing a complete overhaul?

rdent's picture

On offense I think GB will be o.k. at RB (barring injury) but it has become painfully obvious the days of Cobb and Nelson have passed and they are STILL lacking at TE. On defense, ugh! the list is extensive. Don't be surprised to see TT let Morgan Burnett walk in the HOPE Josh Jones vastly improves next season. At the other Saftey position I have seen enough of that joke appropriately nicknamed HaHa. Add to that holes at CB and OLB it appears this is a team in decline and in need of a rebuild on both sides of the ball. TT should have never let it get to this point and the next GM is going to have his work cut out for him. Thank you TT.

rdent's picture

Bearmeat, that article nailed it on the head!

Wenis's picture

Nice article. Part of the problem with beat writers cornering the coaching staff is McCarthy believes he is beyond reproach and based on past interviews does not take any kind of criticism well at all.

Bearmeat's picture

Very true.

cuervo's picture

"McCarthy believes he is beyond reproach "

So do quite a few posters on this site.

HankScorpio's picture

"Part of the problem with beat writers cornering the coaching staff is McCarthy believes he is beyond reproach and based on past interviews does not take any kind of criticism well at all."

I'm not so sure about that. A HC that projects doubt about himself won't be a HC for long.

Tundraboy's picture

 "I'm now convinced McCarthy could have Walter Payton in the backfield and he still run 10 times. He CAN'T help himself."

Perfect NP. MM is an idiot when it comes to using RBs. He is getting worse too.

ollie418's picture

Fire Capers please!

RCPackerFan's picture

Adding my thoughts to your list.

Game Balls:

Adams - Have to feel for this guy. This is the 2nd time in the same season he was knocked out on a dirty cheap shot. And the guy that hit him, stayed in the game. Complete BS.
He is our true number 1 WR and I really wonder how the game plays out had he not gotten knocked out. Just think on that final drive Allison is the one that fumbled. On a play that Adams likely catches that.

Vogel - They finally have a real punter with Vogel. Great pick up!

Clark - He has been great all year. But now he is making impact plays with sacks. Honestly this is probably Thompsons best draft pick since Mathews.

Cobb - He showed what a good QB could do for him. while he wasn't perfect he showed that he can make plays. That TD catch was crazy good. Had Rodgers not been off target on a few others he would have had an even bigger day.

Rodgers - He had 3 Interceptions. The one to Nelson was on 3rd down and essentially was a punt. I think the first one was more of a bad decision. But he did have guys open, but probably didn't have enough strength to get it to them. Even after the 3 Interceptions, he had the ball and a chance to tie it up. Unfortunately Allison couldn't hang onto the ball to see some magic.

Lame Calls:

Capers - He is a great defensive mind. He knows the game inside and out. But he simply is out of tune in what is going on with the team. He has become extremely predictable, and offenses know exactly what to look for and his tendency's. He can't make adjustments during the game to save anything. The Panthers WR's had no impact on the game, yet he couldn't figure out how to stop McCaffrey and Olson in the passing game.
Its time for a new D coordinator.

One name that would be interesting. Marvin Lewis. Would he take a DC job? McCarthy has always been very respectful talked very highly of Lewis.

Allison - Perhaps the fact he barely has played all season? I don't know. Regardless he fumbled away the season.

Davis - He should be suspended. The NFL needs to adapt the college Targeting Rule. There is no excuse for that crap, and he should have been ejected from the game. I don't care if he felt remorseful or not. That shits not right. I would have loved to have seen one of the Packers go back and do the same thing to him.

2017 season - In all honesty this season was lost on the Anthony Barr hit. If Rodgers doesn't get hurt we are fighting for the #1 seed and looking for home field advantage.
Hopefully they can take the higher draft picks and get 2-4 playmakers.
Hopefully the rookies this year take a Kenny Clark/Blake Martinez 2nd year jump. I hope King, Jones, Adams and Biegel all take huge leaps next year. Williams and Jones become dynamite RB's for them too. Hopefully Clark can get some playing time and prove his value.
While the 2017 season was lost, I hope we take this time to get rejuvenated and come out with fire for 2018.

cuervo's picture

"One name that would be interesting. Marvin Lewis. Would he take a DC job? McCarthy has always been very respectful talked very highly of Lewis."

Ummmm...no, not in a million years. He's looking for a front office gig after generally sucking for 15 years in Cincy. How he kept his job all these years is one of the great secrets of the NFL....he must have pictures of someone.

Razer's picture

True enough. I don't get how people think Marv Lewis would jump at the opportunity to become a DC - particularly on this team. He's tarnished his career enough.

RCPackerFan's picture

I don't know if he would or not.

I think he would be good at it though.

How has he tarnished his career? He has been a good coach. He never has had a great QB.
He has been a well respected head coach for a long time. If he wants a D Coordinator job, I think he could get one.

Bearmeat's picture

He also runs a 43. That's not a match.

RCPackerFan's picture

lol, most people here are asking for them to switch to a 4-3.

Razer's picture

No doubt he could get a DC job. After 15 years of HC and great earnings, why would he want to take marching orders from MM? WHY?

As for his career, I will use my own math. His teams have folded down the stretch with precision. His defenses have led the goon parade for at least a decade. He's had 15 years of average results. If I am characterizing his coaching of the Bengals, I see an undisciplined team that inevitably melts down with selfish behavior. Perhaps tarnish is a strong word - but no thanks.

RCPackerFan's picture

He may look to just specialize in a one thing. A lot of head coaches go back to being coordinators. They get to focus purely on what they are great at.

Slim11's picture

He might consider it and consider coming to GB. Despite all the faults of Murphy and Thompson in recent years, the Cincinnati front office is substantially worse. Mike Brown, and his family, are the Bengals' front office for the most part.

I've often wondered how he'd do as a HC (or DC) after he gets away from Mike Brown. Locally, there's word that the Bengals want to hire Hue Jackson if Cleveland and new GM John Dorsey fire him.

RCPackerFan's picture

Yeah, i agree about the front office. They definitely are a lot worse.

I could see that. Though I heard that Jackson wasn't going to get fired before they hired Dorsey. So we will see.

He may like to come to Green Bay knowing he has 12 on the other side of the ball. Never know.

freddisch's picture

Replacing one incompetent DC ,Capers, with another incompetent HC, Lewis???

RCPackerFan's picture

As a Head coach, he was average. He is a really good coach. He is a guy a lot of players like to play for. I think he would make for a really good D Coordinator I think he would be good. I know he is looking for a front office job, but he maybe would consider a d coordinator job.

carusotrap's picture

Same way Capers kept his job.

Bearmeat's picture

Yes, RC, this season was lost on the ARod hit. But that hit only exposed the issues that would have come to light with this team. And the 2016 team. And the 2015 team. And the 2014 team. And and and...

The point is, that when your QB in the modern NFL plays PERFECT, you can beat anyone, anywhere. But our DEFENSE has not given Rodgers enough space to be HUMAN for what is going on 7 years now.

This is not a super bowl caliber team and it never was. The only super bowl caliber team we've had (read "defense") was in 2014, and that team screwed the pooch in Seattle.

I knew this day was coming. I thought it would come yesterday. But, as Silverstein said, if it didn't come yesterday, it would have come against Minny or Detroit, or in the playoffs on the road. Rodgers just masked the issues. He didn't make them go away.

RCPackerFan's picture

It exposed issues, but honestly we knew what the issues were already. We knew our Defense wasn't great. That wasn't news.
And yes Rodgers did cover up a lot of issues.

Honestly the time without Rodgers to me exposed the WR's and TE's more then anything. They weren't nearly as good without Rodgers. Adams was the lone guy to consistently get open. Now the other guys could get open and Hundley missed them when they were open, but Nelson has really fallen. He now should be our 3-4th WR.

Yesterday when Rodgers threw 3 Interceptions the defense gave up 1 TD during that stretch. The defense actually helped keep them in the game during that stretch.
The offense had 4 turnovers. You can't have 4 turnovers and expect to win games. Up until that 4th one they actually had a chance to tie up the game.

The team needs some 'juice'. They need more speed and play makers. They need a big play WR. They need 1-2 play makers on defense.

To me they need to take this time and rejuvenate the team. Add more talent. I don't think they are that far off. Not as far off as most want to believe right now.

Bearmeat's picture

I disagree. I think they're a descending team. The WRs are going to continue to get worse and we don't have the draft capital to boost up the WRs, TEs, CBs AND OLBs. We have to pick 1 or 2 of the areas and hope the others can hold on. Unless TT jumps the shark and trades away draft picks for some serious current players (Like a Von Miller). In other words, only if TT retires. lol.

And yes, fire Dom. I won't be excited about this team going into 2018 regardless of the draft and free agency unless Dom is gone.

RCPackerFan's picture

I disagree. They are not a descending team. It only feels that way because the offense played half the year without their best player.
Their OL is good, their RB's are really good. They have options at WR. They just need to add to it. Perhaps Clark is ready to take a step?
They need to add to the TE group too.
They need 2 players on defense and a new coordinator.

We have a lot of draft picks this year. From what I have seen we should have a 1st, 2nd, 2-3rds, 4th, and 3-5ths or something like that.

They got Aaron Jones, Corey Linsley, Trevor Davis in the 5th round. They can find 5th round players to help.

yeah, they need to go with a new direction at D coordinator and add to the the players on there. Free agents too. Not just draft picks.

Razer's picture

... I think they're a descending team. The WRs are going to continue to get worse and we don't have the draft capital to boost up the WRs, TEs, CBs AND OLBs ...

Given our method of development, I would agree that we have too many areas of weakness to be considered ascending. If we crush the next two drafts, we still need young guys to develop 2-3 years. In the meantime, we need to address coaching issues on this team. Too many gaps.

dobber's picture

...and yet New Orleans seems to have done it in one off-season.

Bearmeat's picture

Yes they did. But NO also missed the playoffs every year since 2011 I think. They were 7-9 or 8-8 with an awful defense ALL THE TIME.

But, to their credit, they've been doing anything and everything they could to improve. I think TT is a much better talent evaluator than Loomis, but he hasn't done EVERYTHING he could. N.O. has fired like 4 defensive coordinators since 2011 and has cut multiple players. They've burned that unit to the ground more often than not in every January. They've used free agency, trades, moved up the board, down the board... etc... In short, they held people accountable, immediately, for the teams performance.

Then they got lucky and hit it out of the park on defense in this year's draft.

That's what it would take for GB to be a super bowl champ again. Maybe not quite that much because ARod is better than Brees. But something on that scale.

And THAT will never happen with TT. Which is why I want TT gone.

RCPackerFan's picture

I agree/disagree...

The last 3 drafts Thompson has really brought in some good players.

2015 - Randall, Ryan (a good 2 down RB)
2016 - Clark, Martinez, Lowry. Fackrell has played better lately.
2017 - King, Jones, Adams and Biegel. We have no idea how any of them will end up and this year all of them but Jones has had injuries but there is promise with them.

I think Thompson has done a pretty good job especially in the last 2 drafts. Clark and Martinez are 2 studs! Lowry is solid, Randall has really been good since coming back from his benching. The rookies have shown a ton of promise.

Razer's picture

New Orleans and Philly with a quick turn around after Chip Kelly. It can be done but you need leadership that will make bold moves and think outside the box. Do we have that in Green Bay?

RCPackerFan's picture

I look at our young players and say we are at worst staying the same. But likely ascending. We have a really good nucleus of young players. The last couple of drafts have brought a good group of players in.

Offense, with Williams, Jones our RB's are really good. Perhaps a guy like Clark could emerge at WR. His size and basketball background alone offers them something they don't have.

On Defense they have Clark, Lowry, Martinez, Randall, Jones, King, Biegel, Adams as young players to build around. Now we don't know how Biegel and Adams are now, but they are young players hoping to emerge next year. That is a pretty good nucleus of players to build around. All of which should improve.

dobber's picture

"The WRs are going to continue to get worse and we don't have the draft capital to boost up the WRs, TEs, CBs AND OLBs. We have to pick 1 or 2 of the areas and hope the others can hold on."

You, sir, have just defined exactly how the modern salary cap leads to very mediocre football.

Bearmeat's picture

Yep. The Seahawks are learning that too.

If/When the Vikes lock up Keenum, they'll learn it. I hope they do max out his dollars actually. He's going to regress BIG TIME.

dobber's picture

I have an evil little chuckle that wells up every time I think of them paying big bucks to Keenum. They've backed themselves into that corner.

carusotrap's picture

We all drank the kool-aid on this team this year. And then the house of cards came tumbling down.

Clean out the defensive staff and let a new staff decide what they've got and how to use them.

Tarynfor12's picture

" We all drank the kool-aid on this team this year. "

Not only have I never drank it, I have endured insults to get many to stop drinking it.

Razer's picture

Tough game to watch particularly since much of the damage was self induced. While most of you are ripping on Capers, I can't say that the defense gave this game away. They played tough in the end and gave us several chances to win it. Unfortunately, boneheaded plays by Josh Jones, no pass rush and HHCD doing his best wooden Indian impression didn't help.

Let's be honest Aaron Rodgers didn't play well. Applaud his bravery but he under threw most routes and missed a ton. Call it rust or whatever but three killer picks is not good football.

Mike McCarthy needs to be kicked in the ass for not leaning on a run game that could have made Rodgers so much more effective. And, we could run the ball on these guys. just ask Aaron Jones. We lost this game because we played a stupid game against a team that made us play.

Game Balls:
Richard Rodgers
O-line
Blake Martinez
D Randall

Lame Calls:
Mike McCarthy
Aaron Rodgers
Josh Jones
HHCD

BTW - does Jordy Nelson still play on the team?

RCPackerFan's picture

While the players weren't great. The defense has way to many miscommunication's and having to call time outs due to not enough players on the field. All that crap is on the defensive coordinator. Players will make mistakes. But some of that is on the coaches. They have to make sure players know their assignments.

I can't blame McCarthy for the lack of runs. Rodgers is up at the LOS changing plays. There was a number of RPO's that we have no idea how many times he changed the play.

Jordy has really lost a step. While I think he should remain on the team, he is that old reliable veteran, they need younger better options.

Razer's picture

...I can't blame McCarthy for the lack of runs. Rodgers is up at the LOS changing plays. There was a number of RPO's that we have no idea how many times he changed the play...

Well then double bad on Rodgers for sabotaging his own offense. Not sure why he would do that but you are suggesting that he has been undercutting the run game in favor of the pass.

RCPackerFan's picture

I really have no idea how many times he threw the ball on a called run play. That is a question only he and McCarthy can answer.

We saw a number of times Rodgers threw on a clear running play.

I have seen a number of people blaming McCarthy for that. In reality we don't know who is more to blame.

Razer's picture

...I really have no idea how many times he threw the ball on a called run play...

In response to my comment you state that Rodgers is at the LOS changing the calls - now - you have no idea how many times this happened. Listen, I generally like your comments because they are balanced and thoughtful. It is apparent that you walk the top of the fence with ease.

Why don't you let the numbers tell the story here. We passed 45 times and ran 19 times, including Rodgers scrambling, which might mean we planned run under 15 times. Half the times when we ran we stacked the backfield with a half and fullback. I am not going to guess at peoples intention but this team doesn't know what to do with a decent run game when it has one. If that is on MM or Rodgers or both, then shame or double shame

RCPackerFan's picture

See, that simply isn't true.
Rodgers admitted it himself that he changed plays to throw more based on what the defense looked like.

Its easy to look at the numbers and assume stuff, but watching it you could see a quite a few times he threw the ball when the OL was drive blocking. Also you could see Rodgers doing a ton of work at the LOS. Who knows how many times he audibled to something different. Rodgers has that freedom to do it.

Regardless they did need to run the ball more. I just don't know who can be blamed for not doing it. Its unfair to blame McCarthy all the way if he calls the run and Rodgers changes it.

badaxed's picture

There are 19 coaches on the current packer coaching roster to coach 53 players. That's like one coach for a little over 2 players.

The 1967 packers had only 7 coaches. Evidently more coaches do not equate to better coaching.

Time for better coaching and less coaches. Too many cooks spoil the pot.

Handsback's picture

It's hard to have a blitzing pressure defense when you don't have the bodies to do it. DC is sitting in a boat barely able to pressure the passer and trying to cover with 3rd string CBs.
In reality all of the NFL teams have key guys gone, just not as many as Green Bay. Who takes over for Capers? That would seem to be the number one issue with MM and TT. If they aren't better than Capers, why bother. The players are not changing so his replacement had better be good.
As hard and frustrating as it is....finding those guys aren't easy and obviously finding the right players aren't easy either.

carusotrap's picture

"Who takes over for Capers" is the reason for keeping him? Please.

Your argument is that every team has guys gone. Exactly. And every team but 2 or 3 is better than the Packers. That is precisely the argument for "letting him retire." Now.

dobber's picture

I like how you put "letting him retire" in quotes.

The bottom line is that a new perspective and some (maybe not all) new position coaches should shake things up and perhaps help some players who are either mis-cast or not coached to their strengths to get better. Sometimes a change in assignments makes all the difference...and usually better players do, too. Frankly, shaking up the staff around those players usually sends the message that job security is a myth...even for the players.

Look at James Campen. Many of us were willing to show him the door several years ago. His name is about the last one we hear anymore when we talk about underachieving units or players. Is it because he's gotten better? Perhaps. He's had better players to work with, too, and has been given the benefit of the doubt in scraping together an OL this season.

egbertsouse's picture

I agree with all the lame calls but would add Nick Perry, another one of TTS expensive bench riders.

I read a comment in another fan site that said that Dom Capers would be DC for life and after he died, Zombie Dom would take over. I tend to agree.

Flow49's picture

Capers D has always been predicated on pressure and turnovers. He hasn’t been able to do either the past couple years and for the past 7 he’s at least been bad at one or the other. Think it’s time for a new younger voice for the players to listen to. Doesn’t have to be a huge name just a smart guy with fresh ideas. Capers has had a great coaching career at this time he just doesn’t have any answers left. Thank you for your service Capers but it’s time to go.

I’m Luke warm on TT, he’s had some good to great draft picks and he’s had some head scratchers. I’m not sure I’d call for his firing but I wouldn’t lose sleep if he was.

I would keep MM, the offense is fine he just need to pay more attention to the Defense. Think he can still be an effective leader.

Hire a new training staff, broken bones and concussions are unavoidable. Soft tissue injuries at the rate we get them seem preventable.

Since '61's picture

First - a Game Ball to Bearmeat for providing the link to the Silverstein article. The article just reinforced what many of us have been posting the past 7 seasons here.
No defense, and TT leaving gaps on the roster not only during the season but in some cases for many seasons and allowing opponents to expose those weaknesses in the playoffs.

Yesterday's Game Balls go to Adams, Cobb and Kenny Clark.

Lame Calls: Allison, Clinton - Dix who appears like he is playing with an undiagnosed concussion all season, Spriggs,
Capers for creating the "We make it easy defense".
TT for his recreation of the 70s-80s Packers.

As for Rodgers he made some nice throws and of course he had 3 bad under throws resulting in picks. Rust or a not fully healed shoulder? Although he looked fine on his throws to R. Rodgers late in the game. Which, BTW why weren't we doing that earlier in the game?

As for the use of Aaron Jones, I think that may be on Rodgers more than MM. Rodgers commented after the game the defense dictated how much the Packers ran the ball yesterday. Remember Rodgers calls the play at the LOS and even then he often has an RPO post-snap. This tells me that Rodgers was reading adjustments made by the Panthers to stop the run plays Jones had been successful on.

Strategically I think the Packers made 3 mistakes yesterday. 1. They should have played more no huddle. 2. They should have had more of a quick passing game and included screens and passes to their RBs. 3. They allowed their defense to get on the field. Always the killer. Pitchers and catchers 2/15/18.
Thanks, Since '61

Tarynfor12's picture

I've been screaming what Tom Silverstein wrote for years.

dobber's picture

Perhaps, but you've written it in such an unnecessarily convoluted way that none of us really wanted to go to the effort to figure it out.

RCPackerFan's picture

I'd just say that most of us needed an encyclopedia, dictionary and a doctorate degree to understand half of it...

dobber's picture

I DO have a doctorate...

RCPackerFan's picture

And do you understand it?

I only have a Bachelors degree and half the time I feel like I'm trying to break the code in figuring it out. I kind of feel like Nicholas Cage in National Treasure trying to solve the clues...

Bearmeat's picture

I have a doctorate too, and I have a hard time understanding half of what Taryn writes.

Tundraboy's picture

Great point I find my Jesuit education, including lots of Shakespeare helps but it is difficult to translate. Reminds me of Eugene on Walking Dead. I enjoy the challenge but sometimes I need Plain Language.

Tarynfor12's picture

True understanding of any point being made can be incredibly difficult if one begins with total premeditated denial of what is/has been written is likely to be true. Thus the false head scratching of bewilderment ensues, which many have mastered as seen in their comments. But we play the game.

RCPackerFan's picture

In English?

Tarynfor12's picture

See...the game continues.

dobber's picture

You're the only one playing it anymore, Taryn.

Bearmeat's picture

Taryn,

My .02 here - Shorten your sentences and use smaller words. Most of your sentences contain 3 clauses and are run-ons. You don't need to impress people with your vocabulary. If you can't get your meaning across with a simple word, THEN use big or complicated words. The way you're writing currently just sounds like you're trying to impress people, and it doesn't work.

Then past that, if you want to be accepted, try listening to others points - which are often valid. You have good points yourself. It's ok to agree to disagree.

Hell, I disagree with RC all the time and we still get along. It's not RC's fault that he's wrong so often. I guess I just don't blame him that his football worldview is tainted by unicorn kisses and Disney movies. :P

RCPackerFan's picture

LMAO... Nicely done.

But again as you are pretty much all the time, WRONG.

We do get along.
To be fair though I have to take into consideration that you're likely sitting in your chocolate castle wearing the aluminum foil hat, afraid to go outside...
I am pretty thoughtful that way...

https://media.giphy.com/media/YeN24tKqpVst2/giphy.gif

Bearmeat's picture

LOL!

Thanks. That is officially the first time I've smiled since yesterday. Watching GB get eliminated sure sucks, doesn't it?

RCPackerFan's picture

lol, its fun.

This is a weird feeling. Getting eliminated for the first time in what 9-10 years?

At least we can have a little fun the day after.

Razer's picture

I kinda like the challenge of deciphering Tarynfor12's posts. As long as people aren't disrespectful, I'll search for the meaning.

Bearmeat's picture

Yeah. But that's the thing. She IS disrespectful and she gets defensive when challenged. It's not worth engaging her, so I've pretty much stopped. I did that with Cow from about 2013 on, and I was much happier at CHTV once I made that decision.

There's one other poster who I do that to as well, with similar results. However, I'm not sure if that poster is actually difficult to deal with, or has a translation problem because english is his 2nd language.

Tarynfor12's picture

I have never been disrespectful unless disrespected first.

Bearmeat's picture

Sigh....

I tried.

Razer's picture

That was easy to understand. See people are listening and trying :o)

Since '61's picture

Taryn for sure you have. My concern is that nothing will change yet again this offseason and 2018 will be the 8th repeat of the existing scenario. All I can say is hold on as long as you can. You be you. Thanks, Since '61

Tarynfor12's picture

Thank you Since 61'......It does appear more often than usual that parroting is becoming a normal ideology among a majority of the few that comment here at all. It would seem that each in question, names need not be mentioned, endeavor to caress each one's patronage, via agreement (real or fake ) for need to have that security in the comment section when being antagonistic, no matter how off base in regard to the Packers and me.

I stand vigil in my claims of the Packers failings and of each player(s) I have defended or attack and have when proven wrong conceded such,but as in regard to my assumed anti Packer beliefs of those few, I have been proven correct again for the vast majority of my claims.

I await the comments claiming again that I have written again in a unreadable language. Perhaps to some,yes, but at least I'm consistent...unlike the Packers and...well...you know who you are.

croatpackfan's picture

Well I see here one unanimous call to replace Dom Capers.

I heard during the game that Marvin Lewis agreed to go from Bengals HC position...

What do you think about him as new DC? I know he has reputationof very good defensive mind...

Thank you on your thoughts...

RCPackerFan's picture

Croat - I brought it up in my post above that I think he would be a good defensive Coordinator.
Lets not forget he was the D Coordinator to possibly the best Defense of all times. The 2000 Baltimore Ravens. Yes the players were great, but he was the guy that created the scheme for those guys.

Some guys are simply not great head coaches but are a great coordinator. Lewis maybe one of those guys?

Since '61's picture

Croat - Marvin Lewis is looking for a front office position. Also, he is a 4-3 guy. I think he is a good coach but the Packers are not the right fit for him at this point. Thanks, Since '61

croatpackfan's picture

Thanks to both on your thoughts...

croatpackfan's picture

I'm disgusted with gloving over Tom Silverstein article.

Well, no matter if he is right or not (I do not read Tom Silverstein enough to know if he is plausible in his observation - I will take he is!), but can you honestly answer me few questions? Let's go:

1. Who was calling Mike McCarthy's name because he is not using Gernimo Allison more?

2. Who was glowing when TT sign Bennett (I know I was)?

3. Who was always supporting Jordy even when he was not playing well?

4. When Randall Cobb was signed to the existing contract who was glad? Who was approving what TT did with that signing?

5. Who was calling TT to cut Davante Adams?

6. Who was calling TT for picking Damarious Randall as well as who demanding cut for him and Quinten Rollins?

7. Now, UDFA guys are not good at all, but who was the one who was rooting for Donatello Brown and Lenzy Pipkins to play over Damarious Randall?

8. Who was all in to sign Davon House, CB who can play only one type of D, for other types he is not useful?

9. I know some people here was rooting for signing Darrelle Revis, what KC did. How that turns for them (team was 5-0, today, 8-6 - so after fast start they were 3-6 - Darrelle Revis helped them much, I'm sure)...

10. Aaron Rodgers said by himself that he was playing way under his standards - he played awful... I agree that Panthers are very good team. Why anyone thinks that any team would survive 4 TO against them? Hell, Vikings lost from same team (only 1 TO) at the same place, almost on the same manner and with the same result. How good is Vikings D?

Now, I know that many will put dislake on this post. But be man and answer those questions honestly. Not to me, to yourself. And after that if you have guts to spit on other people, please, feel free...

Tundraboy's picture

Maybe it will be Karmalike this week playing the Vikings. I got to think that this sieve defense finally stands up and starts giving out some retribution for all the hits like on Devante, and Rodgers of course Enough Mamby-Pamby. Time the Packers wake up and realize they are the GREEN BAY PACKERS, for Christ's sake.

Razer's picture

Hear, hear. Let's lay a blowout beating on these jackasses.

Bearmeat's picture

Only if we're still eligible for the playoffs by Sunday night. Which will be almost assuredly not. Otherwise, I want to see young guys. I want to get Capers fired, so I'd like to give up a LOT of points.

Then we'll beat them next year. They're the Vikings. They'll find a way to screw themselves over in the playoffs anyway.

RCPackerFan's picture

Man, I hate having to correct your stuff all the time....

You will have to excuse my friend... He is a little slow....

The Packers game is *Saturday night...

Tundraboy's picture

Retribution and losing wouldnt be the end of the world for me,especially if it leads to some real changes.

4zone's picture

Na, too busy making commercials to play football anymore.

Pack66's picture

BWAAAH HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAA BWAAAAHHHH AHAHAH

AROD SUCKS...3 PICKS...FIRE TT...

4 > 12

You aholes were less kind to FAVRE when he was here and he had to do it with MUCH LESS TALENT.....

THE CHICKENS ARE COMIN' HOME TO ROOST...

Karma's a BITCH, ain't it...??

BWAAAH HAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA

4zone's picture

Alright everyone. You want Capers gone, so who do you have in mind to replace him with? (Not that I don't agree he needs to retire). Who'd you think can turn this mess around?

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