Packers Practice Roundup: Day 16. August 19, 2019

Packers Practice Roundup: Day 16.  August 19, 2019

Injuries, Usage, Formations, Personnel:

  • Did not practice list: Kevin King, Kabion Ento (hammy) Ka’Dar Hollman (stinger) Oren Burks (chest) Danny Vitale (calf) Jimmy Graham (finger) Jace Sternberger (concussion) Reggie Gilbert (knee) Greg Roberts, Ibraheim Campbell (PUP list).  Owczarski
  • Jimmy Graham did not need surgery on his finger and coach Matt LaFleur said he will "be all right."  Demovsky
  • Gutekunst says CB Kevin King is "getting close" to return.  Wood
  • Rodgers made it clear today he's calling the 2 min offense.  Nagler
  • Interesting: Curtis Bolton on the field as lone true ILB in 3-safety look. Doubt he’ll supplant Blane Martinez in that scheme, but shows what the Packers think of Bolton’s athleticism.  Wood
  • Total camp time: Just 30 hours, 49 minutes.  . The final public practice of training camp ends after one hour and 57 minutes with a half-speed (at most) 2-minute drill.  Demovsky
  • Gutekunst says he doesn't need to see Boyle v better comp. He's played quality opponents.  Gutekunst says it's pretty likely backup QB is on the current roster. That'd be DeShone Kizer and/or Tim Boyle, presumably. Wood

Quarterbacks and WRs:

  • Boyle: Boyle complete to Lazard over the middle.  Boyle complete to Shepherd short. Redmond jumped it & Boyle was late but Boyle threw high avoiding the pick Boyle finds Shep in the back of the end zone. Nice throw and nice catch but Shep comes down out of bounds.  Boyle finds Hall for a checkdown. Easy completion.   Boyle w/ the 2 big plays of the day to Davis & Moore. His receivers helped him out both times but he remains fearless & gives his receivers a chance.  Herman
  • Boyle clearly having the better day. Nice completion to Tonyan now.  Loney
  • Kizer:  Kizer throws behind Kumerow and he can’t hang on. That’s wide open for Kizer on a simple crosser. Kizer comes back and fires complete for a nice pickup over the middle to Kumerow.  Kizer having a rough day. Throws to McKever but Tramon is all over it. Tramon has a better chance tbh. Kizer throws low over the middle to a sliding Shep who of course makes the catch sliding between defenders.  Kizer not close on an intermediate out to MVS Kizer to Adams deep incomplete. Savage on the coverage. Prob [hit the WR] early but uncatchable.   ESB beats Jamerson for a catch for 15ish but sack by Redmond first.   Herman
  • Individuals/Misc: Huge play by J’Mon Moore on a diving touchdown catch. Beautiful, beautiful play by Moore.  Herman
  • Aaron Rodgers singled out one wide receiver for really impressing him during camp: Allen Lazard.  Schneidman [Demovsky wrote that Lazard is an NFL-caliber WR.]
  • J’Mon Moore with a tremendous, diving catch from Tim Boyle, roughly 30 yards over S Natrell Jameson. His best play of camp. Moore got up and chucked the football in excitement. Yeah, he needed that.  Wood [Same play as above – too little, too late?]
  • AR on ESB: "Almost quietly, I think EQ has had a really nice camp. I think he's been very consistent. We haven't talked about him a lot, which is actually a positive. It's almost like, 'Yeah, well, he's on the squad.' He's been that good."  Kruse
  • WR Geronimo Allison might be a fit to takeover slot reps in GB’s offense Showed up in slot on 3 different 3rd down plays vs BAL. Should've had 3 catches but last one was tipped by DL Allison lacks the long speed but has some twitch in his routes & can break a tackle for YAC.  Ben Fennell  You can watch a clip of Allison playing the slot here.
  • WR Trevor Davis making up for lost time. Caught a 5-yard pass from Kizer on 3-4. Later, ended team drill with a 40-yard bomb from Tim Boyle against Chandon Sullivan and Will Redmond, despite PI from Sullivan. When he’s been healthy, Davis has been quite good in camp.  Wood
  • Trevor Davis picked up right where he left off before his stinger. Just made a contested catch on a deep ball from Tim Boyle between a pair of DBs for a 40-yard play. It was all Davis, who adjusted to the ball and boxed out the defenders.  Demovsky
  • Third-down period starts with Rodgers converting 2-3 but Rodgers misses three third-and-longs and Kizer/Wilkins combined 0-6.  Huber
  • Play action pass. Beautiful fake. All day. No separation but Rodgers throws Kumerow open. Fantastic ball but dropped by 16.  Smoke slant from Rodgers to Adams and Adams just explodes up field. Huge gain, Rodgers through perfectly in the window and lead him in stride. Explosive play.  Pettine brings everyone. Rodgers gets it out quick and high to MVS who goes up to make the catch.  Herman

Tight Ends:

  • Rodgers slightly upset with Tonyan after a route. You hear him say “Damn it Rob, come on.”  Herman
  • Man, Robert Tonyan can really run. Just split the safeties down the seam for a deep catch from DeShone Kizer. The regular season is a different beast, but Tonyan has had a great camp.  Wood
  • Boyle to Tonyan for a big completion up the seam. This has prob been Boyle’s best day of camp so far.  Herman

Running Backs:

  • Jones big gain up the middle on an inside toss.  Herman

Defensive Backs:

  • Tony Brown has seemingly stayed ahead of Josh Jackson with Jackson returning from injury.  Josh Jackson great coverage on Allison. Herman
  • Tramon perfect coverage on MVS, Rodgers throws incomplete.  Herman
  • Jackson in coverage on Shep. Looked like good coverage incomplete but refs throw the flag.  Herman

Safety:

  • The number one thing I can say (about Savage) is that outside of his semi-missed tackle against Baltimore, I haven’t seen him make a single mistake. Doesn’t mean there haven’t been any but they’ve been rare to say the least.  Herman

Linebackers:

  • Preston beat de Beer....  Fackrell with a nice play at the line to get through his block and then jump to knock down the pass.  Pettine is bringing the heat and the offense can’t do anything. Randy Ramsey shoots through for a pressure.  Summers shoots through the gap untouched for the sack on Kizer. Poor blitz pickup.  Herman
  • Bolton all over Carson on a quick pass.  Ty Summers stuffs Darrin Hall.  Toss to Jones outside and he does a nice job to turn the corner but Blake Martinez is waiting for him. Nice play by Blake.  Herman

Kicker/STs:

Offensive/Defensive Line:

  • Bakhtiari handles Gary with ease.  Light with great protection vs. Preston.  False start Pankey.  Herman
  • Billy Turner at RT and rookie Elgton Jenkins at RG with the 1s in 11-on-11s. Bryan Bulaga participated in first six periods of practice but gets a rest now.  Now Alex Light at RT with the 1s and Turner slides back to RG.  Schneidman
  • Aaron Jones with a nice pickup on a toss right. Running behind Light/Turner.  Herman
  • Rookie Elgton Jenkins hasn't allowed a pressure over 45 pass-blocking snaps this preseason. Kruse
  • DT Tyler Lancaster is an absolute BRICK in the trenches... So difficult to move. Firing off the ball. Consistent heavy hand placement. Doesn't give ground and looks to shed! Lancaster is the backup NT/1T to Kenny Clark and there isn't anyone close to challenge...  Ben Fennell

Overall/Miscellaneous:

  • There are 2,880 players currently on NFL teams. Players that are not: Nick Perry Byron Bell Davon House Mo Wilkerson (injury) Antonio Morrison Jason Spriggs Those 6 played 1563 snaps for GB last year & would have played more if not for injuries.  Herman
  • The Packers reached an injury settlement with OLB Kendall Donnerson, a source said, so the 2018 seventh-round pick will be released from injured reserve. It means he could still play for the Packers or any other team this season once the settlement runs out.  Demovsky [GB has to wait 3 additional weeks longer than whenever the settlement runs out.  Other teams don’t have to wait.]
  • Chargers S Derwin James is scheduled to undergo foot surgery in North Carolina on Thursday, per source. A screw that James had inserted in his foot as a freshman at Florida State bent last week and doctors determined it’s best to remove it. James is expected back in 3-4 months.  Adam Shefter [Sooo, don’t draft players with pre-existing injuries?]
  • Today’s camp standouts: Trevor Davis Tim Boyle Tramon Williams Darrius Shepherd Aaron Jones Blake Martinez Alex Light.  Herman
NFL Categories: 
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Comments (75)

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wildbill's picture

August 19, 2019 at 09:20 pm

Really enjoy these practice roundups, thanks

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

August 19, 2019 at 09:21 pm

I chose to use Trevor Davis' photo at the top of this article. It was a close call. My intent was to remind fans that unless they have been to practice, they have not seen the jump that Davis has supposedly taken as a receiver. I also remembered Andy Herman mentioning how much faster Davis was as a gunner, and then noted that despite booming his punts, each with over 5 seconds of hang time (albeit offset a bit since those three punts also traveled 48, 52 and 56 yards), Baltimore's shortest punt return was 10 yards.

I at least am going to watch Trevor Davis before anointing Shepherd or Lazard.

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Swisch's picture

August 19, 2019 at 10:10 pm

I'm wondering if all three make the team -- that is Davis, Shepherd and Lazard.
If so, they seem likely to go with Davante and MVS. That's five receivers.
That would leave Kumerow, Allison, ESB, Moore and Redding fighting for one or two spots.
I hope our coaches are good talent evaluators, and discern the right guys for this season and beyond. Can they tell who among this talented group is truly the best?
What I like about Trevor Davis is his spirited effort. Didn't he come into camp a year or two ago having really worked on his return game? Now he's stepping up as a receiver.
Seems like a guy who just keeps working to get better and better.

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dobber's picture

August 20, 2019 at 07:43 am

"That would leave Kumerow, Allison, ESB, Moore and Redding fighting for one or two spots."

IMO, that's not going to happen. I think there are two locks in that group, and potentially three. At least one of Davis, Shepherd, and Lazard isn't going to make the 53. This is where BG earns his money: can he find a safe (meaning non NFCN) trading partner for one of these bodies and get some return on a guy he's likely to be forced to cut, anyway?

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

August 20, 2019 at 09:31 am

LOL. Dobber, I mentioned the possibility of trading Allison or ESB and encountered some incredulity.

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Coldworld's picture

August 20, 2019 at 11:04 am

People get blinkered. I could see, and have noted before the potential for one of Allison, Kumerow or ESB to be traded.

Good route runners with sure hands could be very desirable to certain teams in the league. Reliable, smart and in ESBs case, upside in lieu of history. Teams scout other teams. These players have overlapping skill sets. We could survive with 3 of the three, maybe even one of the three if one thinks Lazard can produce against starters.

One could argue that Davis could also be on the block with his return ability now that Shepherd has emerged.

We have a GM who is willing to deal surplus to improve. A trade or trades is certainly possible.

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sbransbottom's picture

August 20, 2019 at 02:50 pm

I definitely agree Gute is most likely looking to see what he can make happen. I see Adams, Kumerow, MVS, Davis, Allison as near locks. We need Davis for ST. He is making the 53. It will most likely be ESB that gets traded if it happens. I don't see Moore making the team or PS. Too late with too much depth and competition. Just my humble opinion. Kumerow and MVS stretch the field and Allison is going to play slot. One of the others makes PS. But what do I know

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Swisch's picture

August 20, 2019 at 03:59 pm

sbransbottom, what do most of us know?
Plus, it seems even the GMs and other experts make a fair share of mistakes.
Us ordinary observers of the NFL bounce around ideas for fun, and to learn from each other, and for camaraderie as Packers fans.
At this point, I like the idea of keeping Moore on the practice squad to continue developing toward what seems to be a high potential.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

August 20, 2019 at 04:17 pm

I have been saying I think Allison is the most likely. Just my opinion!

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Since '61's picture

August 19, 2019 at 09:31 pm

Good to see that Aaron Rodgers is back at practice. Sounds like Moore made a great catch. If he can catch consistently he might stick yet.

Sounds like Kizer had a tough day again. Getting Jones and Williams back is a big plus for the offense.

Sounds like King will be back for the opener versus Bears which is more good news.

Interesting comment about Perry, Bell, House, Morrison and Spriggs. Says that Gute made the right moves by chucking those guys. TGR, thanks for another excellent roundup, Since '61

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Turophile's picture

August 20, 2019 at 05:48 am

The biggest knock on WR Davis is that he isn't the 'shiny new toy'. Fans always tend to like like the new guys, and with Davis many people have him being supplanted by rookie Shepherd (who has played well).

While Shepherd does have good ST skills, which is exactly what you want for receivers deeper on the depth chart, Davis excels there both as a returner and a gunner. Now Davis is fit again, I think he is chosen over Shepherd.

With as good as Davis and Shepherd have played I'd actually like to keep both, but WR has a ridiculous log-jam. If only five receivers were kept, then you can put down Adams, MVS as locks. Allison is probably next best (though some would dispute that). Now it becomes difficult.

Most years keeping 4th rounder Moore would be a given, but I don't see how he makes the 53 this year, even if the Packers keep 6 WRs. That is mainly due to too many dropped balls. Kumerow, ESB, Shepherd, Lazard, they are all playing better than Moore.

The nearest I can get to predicting the final WR room is:
1) D.Adams (mostly outside), 2) MVS (outside), 3) Allison (slot), 4) J.Kumerow (mostly outside), 5) T.Davis (for his ST ability + good enough to be an option at WR), 6) ESB (for his potential, has played slot and outside). Outside the 53 on the PS are 7) Shepherd (ST + slot receiver), 8) Lazard (outside), 9) Moore (PS or cut).

I want to leave Kumerow off the final squad, but I can't. He suffers from the twin evils of age, at 27 he is older (compared to ESB, Shepherd, Lazard who are 22, 23, 23) and has rather pedestrian speed. Despite that he has made splash plays often. I'd like someone faster, someone who isn't an Allison clone, but production is king and Kumerow has it.

Although I don't envisage ESB being leveraged out of his spot on the 53, Shepherd and Lazard are both making his spot insecure. It wouldn't shock me if either beat him out, because Shepherd looks like a second T.Davis, (a real achievement as a rookie), while Lazard is even taller than ESB and has been flashing in camp and earning praise from QB1 and coaches.

Who makes the WR room depends on how the coaches project these receivers will play against starting-level DBs, how much ST usefulness plays into their choice, and whether the coaches choose potential over production. Whatever happens, there will be some tough cuts coming.
In my scenario Shepherd and Lazard make the PS, but I believe they would make most teams final 53, and it only takes one of the 31 other teams to make a move and you lose them.

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dobber's picture

August 20, 2019 at 07:52 am

"The biggest knock on WR Davis is that he isn't the 'shiny new toy'. "

Couldn't agree more, and I'm admittedly guilty of this. I'll fall into the "we know who 'X' is, and we can get an 'X' off the street any time we want" all the time. Thing is, if camp reports are really on, Davis is finally starting to show that he might be more than just 'X'--in practice. He hasn't been healthy enough to show it in games, yet, and this has been an ongoing struggle for him in his time in GB.

That said, his unavailability might land him on IR or get him cut. The Packers might try to have their cake and eat it, too, by keeping Davis and trying to sneak Shepherd onto the PS (and let's be honest, there are lots of undersized slot specialists out there). Davis is a key punt coverage guy, too. If they offer Shepherd a larger than normal contract for the PS, I think he would make it.

"Although I don't envisage ESB being leveraged out of his spot on the 53, Shepherd and Lazard are both making his spot insecure."

#12 went to bat for ESB yesterday saying he was having a great camp and doing all the right things. FWIW...

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Coldworld's picture

August 20, 2019 at 11:12 am

Davis is a player with one year left on his contract. Assume they keep him. Will he be brought back on another? I think that weighs against him alongside his injury history. Shepherd isn’t as fast in a straight line , but his ability to read a field as a rookie is exceptional.

Moreover, Shepherd hadn’t shown the nervousness that Davis has on occasion. Davis is good at punt returning once the ball is in his hand. The mental aspect is much more dubious. Shepherd seems like a natural in terms of temperament.

While I accept the out of sight, out of mind argument has some validity (especially these days where instant gratification seems to be assumed), there are other factors that lead me to feel that Shepherd is a better overall prospect.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

August 20, 2019 at 04:20 pm

CW,
Agreed!

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MarkinMadison's picture

August 20, 2019 at 08:11 am

The biggest knock on Davis is that he played in 2 games last year. This will be his 4th year in the NFL and he has 8 catches and 94 yards to his name so far for his career. It's hard to stay healthy taking hits in the NFL at 188 lbs. He might be a great special teams guy, but how much do you want to count on him being available? His ability is not the question. His durability is a legitimate concern.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

August 20, 2019 at 04:23 pm

Davis is a dissapointment as well as King when it comes to designing your body to withstand how physical the NFL is on your body. Look what Aaron Jones has been doing.

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sbransbottom's picture

August 20, 2019 at 02:54 pm

Your thought process is exactly why I say ESB goes on the trading block. Teams can only have 7 players on the practice squad correct? If that's so, that will be difficult for us to keep 2 receivers there. IDK how its going to play out but that's a really good thing. Our depth is great.

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dobber's picture

August 20, 2019 at 09:16 pm

10 players on the PS.

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Coldworld's picture

August 20, 2019 at 07:10 am

Moore makes the hard catches and has the yips on the ones where he isn’t relying on instinct alone. It’s one of the reasons why we should hold onto him. He does not have stone hands as often contended here. He just needs time to settle.

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stockholder's picture

August 20, 2019 at 10:09 am

I see Allison and Kumerow as short term answers. They have the "Hot Hands" as of NOW. MVS, St Brown are your long term answers. Davis is making the 53 regardless. With Adams, thats 6Wr. The fight is Shepard or Moore. Lazard PS. I believe if Moore can show-up the last two games. I say Allison is the most likely to be traded. Still seeing 7 Wrs.

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sbransbottom's picture

August 20, 2019 at 02:55 pm

We need someone to play the slot. Allison is a close to that fit as we have.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

August 20, 2019 at 04:29 pm

Shepard, Moore, ESB can play the slot. But as I said late last year the best player for the slot on the team is Adam's. Most athletic but also allows some of other the talented WR's on outside, particularly with speed.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

August 20, 2019 at 04:26 pm

Stock,
You just echoed my sentiments exactly. Allison and Kumerow are short term answers and not long term, which is why one or both will not be on the team via trade or cut. Allison has most potential for maybe a 5th or 6th round pick, or maybe a player exchange.

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dobber's picture

August 20, 2019 at 10:15 am

Moore had issues with drops in college, too. It was one of the knocks against him coming out. Now, that said, his volume allowed him to be a very productive college WR. I just don't think the leash will be long enough with him to find out if he's going to settle down.

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Coldworld's picture

August 20, 2019 at 11:15 am

Similar story from research. When he has to think about where he should be his catching declines. That’s what happened there too.

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Oppy's picture

August 19, 2019 at 09:32 pm

"(Boyle's) receivers helped him out both times but he remains fearless & gives his receivers a chance."

This has been my appraisal of Boyle since day 1 last year.

The no. 1 attribute that sticks out when you watch Boyle with a critical eye is that he stands tall in the pocket, unphased, and delivers the football. The game is not too big for him. He drops back and steps up with confidence. His has an NFL strong arm.

The downside has always been that he lacks NFL caliber accuracy. On most pass attempts, He throws the ball in the general vicinity of a WR- nothing more, nothing less. So many of Boyle's big plays come along with a WR making a fully laid out diving catch, "great adjustment" to the ball, etc and so forth. Still, as stated in the tweet round up.. He gives the WRs the opportunity to make a play.

Kizer scares the crap outta me. I don't trust him a bit. He's the type that moves the ball between the 20s and goes deer in the headlights when you need the points in the RZ. Boyle may be worth developing, but he's not a ready back up QB at this point.

I wish the Packers would show me they're serious about getting a Lombardi and either look for Rodgers' legitimate successor, or find a journeyman QB who has won games in the NFL and knows how to manage a game for a few weeks to keep the ship afloat if AR goes down.. I'm tired of efffing around with half-assed back ups when Rodgers gets whacked seemingly every year lately.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

August 19, 2019 at 09:45 pm

Ben Fennell wrote after Kizer's 2017 season that statistically, Kizer was an average starting NFL QB between the twenties. Poor in the red zone and when backed up.

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Old School's picture

August 19, 2019 at 10:39 pm

He does not get the ball into the end zone . We saw that last year against Detroit, and the year before when he led the lowest scoring offense in the league.

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Coldworld's picture

August 20, 2019 at 07:12 am

In all fairness that O had other issues. There is always the possibility that a player will improve. Boyle struggles in the red zone too. Most less experienced QBs do.

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Oppy's picture

August 20, 2019 at 08:05 pm

Kizer is young, but he had an entire full year of NFL starting experience. That's QB1 snap counts in game week practices, QB1 snaps under center on Sundays, playing against real NFL defenses.

What was so concerning to me was not how he fared during that rookie year of NFL starts. What was so concerning was that he was making deer-in-the-headlight, true rookie type mistakes in Packers training camp and preseason games last season- like he'd never experienced full speed NFL Football. Like he hasn't had the opportunity to get reps.

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Swisch's picture

August 19, 2019 at 10:23 pm

I like Boyle and Kizer, and think both can be solid NFL quarterbacks, possibly even starters. They're both so young!
It would be interesting to compare them to Aaron Rodgers in his second or third season.
I have this sense that potentially Boyle could actually be something special in the NFL.
So maybe I keep Boyle over Kizer, and then look for an experienced backup QB for this season.
Question is, are there any of those experienced QBs out there who would be a good fit for the Packers?
I doubt Case Keenum is available via a trade (that could include Kizer), but he's one guy I'd really like. Do the Redskins need any wide receivers?

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Matt Gonzales's picture

August 20, 2019 at 12:29 am

They need a backup QB, or two of they're dealing Keenum. If they dealt Keenum, there would be Haskins, and McCoy, who has yet to play this year and is likely to be unavailable at least the first quarter of the season.

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blacke00's picture

August 20, 2019 at 09:22 am

I agree!

All things being equal which they never are. Boyle and Kizer are equal in many regards. After 3 years Kizer is what he is and I don't see great improvement. Boyle has only 2 years in the system. I think by year 3 Boyle will supersede Kizer.

Ditto to many of your comments regarding Boyle.

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Coldworld's picture

August 20, 2019 at 11:18 am

Boyle May turn out to be the better QB, but he is not adequate yet. Do we set aside a roster spot as the third QB or do we put him on the practice squad. Tough decision, but he will not be QB 2 this year I believe.

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flackcatcher's picture

August 20, 2019 at 03:02 pm

(Sigh) In a perfect world with cap space to burn, and a extra roster spot the Packers would sign a veteran backup like.....Matt Flynn. (There, I said it. Again) But rebuilding teams sometimes have to choose their poison. Last year it was the DB group over OL. This year it may be DB over the LB. Have the Packers filled the roster with enough depth that picking a QB in next years draft is a priority. I don't know. The Packers won't know themselves until this season is over. But for now, it's Rodgers or bust.

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EddieLeeIvory's picture

August 19, 2019 at 09:38 pm

Had the Packers drafted Derwin James last year like many wanted, you can bet your bottom dollar that the foot would have had the injury early last year & he been out all year. And then whoever got Jaire instead would have gone deep into the playoffs & he made the Pro Bowl.

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PackersWinning's picture

August 19, 2019 at 09:55 pm

Good to know Gary is consistent day to day. The best goes on... Justin Harrell, Derick Sherrod, Ahmad Carroll, Jamal Reynolds and the king of bunch Big Tony. I’ve got my ”I was wrong” comment ready to go when Gary makes the Pro Bowl....in the XFL or maybe in Canada.

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Turophile's picture

August 20, 2019 at 05:53 am

Too soon, way too soon.

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porupack's picture

August 20, 2019 at 07:51 am

What exactly is the point of your negative declarations so early? Does it make you feel better to pronounce a bust before anyone else in the universe is aware he is a bust? Now that its off your chest, you ok with checking back at the end of the year, so we compare prognostications then with a bit more data?

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Coldworld's picture

August 20, 2019 at 11:20 am

The joy of being able to prognosticate like an expert while knowing no risk of being conclusively shown to be wrong for ages?

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flackcatcher's picture

August 20, 2019 at 03:11 pm

YES! (as flackcatcher rubs his hands in glee. Cue evil laughter.......:)

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GBPDAN1's picture

August 19, 2019 at 10:12 pm

I was a little concerned regarding Lancaster's bad outing against Houston. But, I'm happy to hear that he bounced back against Baltimore and now he's mentioned in this practice update that he's playing like he did at the end of last season.

If Lancaster keeps this up, I'd like to see him in place of Lowry on early run downs

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Coldworld's picture

August 20, 2019 at 07:14 am

He has looked good since. Every player has bad games. Without knowing what he was being asked to do it’s sometimes harder to judge. Pettine has made it clear that they use preseason to ask players to do things outside their established comfort zone. Could have been a factor.

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porupack's picture

August 20, 2019 at 07:54 am

>>>Pettine has made it clear that they use preseason to ask players to do things outside their established comfort zone.<<<

I had not seen this before. Its pretty good coaching if that is what he's doing. Thanks for recalling this.

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Coldworld's picture

August 20, 2019 at 11:21 am

Comments have not been in regard to Lancaster specifically, but yes, they have shown a different approach to pre season reps.

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Oppy's picture

August 20, 2019 at 08:12 pm

Lancaster and Lowry are two different types / positions.

That being said.. I don't get the Packers love of Lowry. Don't get me wrong, he's a decent player, but I don't see anything outstanding about his play.

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Pierre's picture

August 19, 2019 at 10:38 pm

Good to see Tim Boyle throwing long completions in practice today and giving his receivers a chance to make a play on the ball...which they did. He does stand in the pocket against the rush and throws some nice deep passes to his receivers. Not afraid.

He’s the QB the Packers need to keep and develop and he’s ready to back up Rodgers now. Packers do not want to lose Boyle to another team like they did Taysom Hill who is now being considered by some as the heir apparent to Drew Brees in the near future.

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croatpackfan's picture

August 20, 2019 at 04:43 am

Yeah, Tysom Hill will replace Drew Brees. That is why Saints signed Teddy Bridgewater who was playing in the preseason as first choice. Saints are making fools all of us to think how they do not consider Hill as ST player and 3rd/4th TE in their plans, but replacement for Drew Brees.

Very logical conclusion, I believe!

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Matt Gonzales's picture

August 20, 2019 at 09:21 am

Bridgewater signed a 1 year contract, and Hill is on the last year of his rookie deal. Either, or neither, could be the long term answer, but I agree Hill is probably a lifelong backup QB, but like Joe Webb his gadget play ability means he’ll consistently see the field in different formations.

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Coldworld's picture

August 20, 2019 at 11:24 am

When they were faced with Hill starting they rushed to trade a third round pick for Bridgewater and a third rounder. That said it all.

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Since &#039;61's picture

August 20, 2019 at 01:50 pm

Coldworld exactly correct. All this hype over how great Hill is a way overblown.

In two years with the Saints Hill has a 36.3 QB rating. He has attempted 7 passes and completed 3 for 64 yards with one interception.

He has caught 3 passes for a whopping 4 yards and he had 37 rush attempts for 196 yards.

The Saints have him listed on the roster as a WR/TE, not even as a backup QB. I don't see how anyone can use these results as a reason for claiming that the Packers should have kept Hill or that he would be a better backup than either Kizer or Boyle. I'm no fan of Kizer or Boyle but I couldn't justify that Hill is any better and he is probably worse than either of them.

Also he is 28 years old. I have no problem with his age if he had legitimate experience as a QB even a backup. But 7 passes attempted with 3 years in the league basically makes him a 28 year old untested rookie. Thanks, Since '61

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Since &#039;61's picture

August 20, 2019 at 01:54 pm

Pierre - Really the heir apparent to Drew Brees!!! Hill has completed 3 out of 7 passes for 64 yards, no TDs and one Interception in 2 seasons with the Saints. He has a QB rating of 36.3. The Saints list him as a WR/TE on their roster, not even as a QB. If this is the heir apparent to Drew Brees the Saints are in big trouble. Thanks, Since '61

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dobber's picture

August 20, 2019 at 04:52 pm

I seem to remember having a similar argument with Kirk last year.

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MITM's picture

August 19, 2019 at 11:44 pm

I absolutely cannot stand "toss" plays from my McCarthy play calling PTSD. Especially an inside toss.

Trevor Davis continues to be a practice all star - when he isnt hurt. As far as i'm concerned, Shepherd has his spot. It will also be a mistake to not keep Lazard as I will continue to say. Imho I really dont see the need to keep 4 tight ends at the expense of carrying 1 more talented receiver with way more upside than Marcedes Lewis.

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croatpackfan's picture

August 20, 2019 at 04:46 am

Trevor Davis is elite PR/KR and gunner in NFL. In the real game, not in the preseason or only at practice. He is guy who constantly works on himself and might be faster that MVS.

So, your logical conclusion is: I did not see Shepherd in real game but I'm sure that he is not only practice and preseason star, while Trevor Davis showed that he can play in NFL, because of that he is practice star!

NIce!

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Coldworld's picture

August 20, 2019 at 07:22 am

Actually, he is not an elite kick returner. His skill is on punts, but there always have been questions about his decision making. Given the difference between a good and average returner in terms of field position, one extra mental error far outweighs the benefit. Beware stats in isolation.

I don’t know if Shepherd is as good with the ball in hand: too small a sample, but he looks really relaxed catching under pressure. Davis has never given that impression. The last returner who did was Woodson.

While I don’t agree with those who argue for safe catching all the time, I do believe that the three essential skills for a punt returner are great hands, field awareness and a cool head. Shepherd has really stood out for those.

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croatpackfan's picture

August 20, 2019 at 08:21 am

Yeah, I remember how many was calling Trevor Davis name because he was fair-catching balls at 7 yards or 5 yards. But nobody complaint when Tramon Williams made possible opponent to touch the ball at half yard, because he was decide not to fair catch the ball at 6 yard line...

I have my opinion about all this Trevor Davis stuff. There is some players many Packers fans do not like and there is nothing those players can do against that opinion. It is how it is. Very recent example Kyler Fackrell. Another one, not so recent: AJ Hawk. And another one - Kevin King (very often you can find fans who insists on cutting King, because he is injury prone...).

Also there is some examples where players had to play on pro bowl level to change the opinion of many fans - most recent is Davante Adams. Not so recent - Mike Daniels.

And there was many players who might do whatever, fans would love them - the biggest example - Brett Favre who pissed on all of Packers fans and on organization, but there is still many fans who was very light on his mistakes. As far as I see Packers organization showed high class in
this whole case. And I believe that Brett Favre was really surprised with recognition of his importance for the franchise, no matter what he did at the end.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

August 20, 2019 at 09:56 am

"There have always been questions about Trevor's decision-making." I can't think of the name of a coach or anyone connected with the Packers who have raised any such questions.

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croatpackfan's picture

August 23, 2019 at 05:02 am

Not with coaches TGR, with fans, a lot of...

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Coldworld's picture

August 20, 2019 at 11:44 am

Tramon was once a decent returner. I don’t think anyone has suggested that he should reprise that role based upon last year.

I seem to recall considerable debate about Davis’ decision making in 2017. Coach speak seldom includes ‘yes our guy really made a bone headed decision.’

McCarthy benched Davis for a fumble during the 2016 Titans game in November. Davis returned nine punts in 2016 for 115 yards (including one return for 55 yards against Atlanta) before that but didn’t handle return duties for the remainder of the year. That represents a certain lack of confidence as I see it.

In 2018 there was a serious competition with Cobb based upon the latter’s history and reliability. Davis has some errors and some big preseason returns. Eventually, the ability with ball in hand, plus the team’s reluctance to expose Cobb to risk of injury led to Davis getting the role.

Far from a trusted decision maker, Davis has always attracted concerns on that side but the in-hand skill and lack of palatable other choices has eventually triumphed.

Shepherd may not be as good as Davis from a YPR standard. From my perspective his temperament thus far looks to be much less troubling. In the end one muff beats an extra yard or two in terms of impact.

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Oppy's picture

August 20, 2019 at 08:20 pm

There's a lot of FANS who were very concerned about Davis' decision making on fielding punts, but as both TGR and myself have attempted to share with the masses on more than a few occasions, there is a sizable amount of hard data from years of real-world punt return outcomes in the NFL that strongly suggest there's a massive difference between what fans consider conventional wisdom on what you field and what you let hit the ground as a punt returner, and what the results-based data suggests.

My final analysis after looking over the data: Great majority of the punts Davis was fielding that fans were calling questionable, the data says were the right decision

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4zone's picture

August 20, 2019 at 04:33 am

WR gonna be s tough call this year.

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croatpackfan's picture

August 20, 2019 at 04:50 am

TGR thank you for this updates. It really helps to read this article after what I read during practice on APC. It is some kind of concentrate what was written during the actual practice.

Keep up your work on articles, I find you have talent and you can your knowledge of football (especially in some areas, like Salary Cap) easily translate to us.

Thanks once again!

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RCPackerFan's picture

August 20, 2019 at 07:28 am

This WR battle is really heating up.

Adams, Allison, MVS, and Kumerow are locks IMO.

I think EQ makes it. So that is 5.

That leaves 1 to 2 spots for Davis, Shepherd, Lazard, Moore.

These next 2 games are going to be key for all of these guys. I really am not sure how it is going to turn out. But I will say I really do like Shepherd and Lazard. I think they have a real shot at making the 53.

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dobber's picture

August 20, 2019 at 07:49 am

I agree with your first 5. I think those guys are in. I all but guarantee you that one of those 9 guys is going to get hurt before the cutdown to 53. It's not bad vibes, it's just probabilities...or, perhaps, exploiting a lesser injury to keep a player they like on IR.

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RCPackerFan's picture

August 20, 2019 at 08:23 am

Yeah, this is all assuming all guys are healthy. If someone gets hurt that it changes who makes it and whatnot.

Another option is if they were to trade a WR. I haven't been paying full attention to other teams so I am not sure about their WR situations but they might be offered something for a player too.

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porupack's picture

August 20, 2019 at 08:05 am

You think Allison is better now, or has as much potential as your bubble-4 (Davis Shep, Laz, Moore)?

I like Allison. A team player. Consistent. Connects with Rodgers. Has experience (which is rare among GB WRs). But, it seems Allison is replaceable, and hovers around a "journey man" caliber. Wouldn't it be safe to pick Davis, Shepard, and release Allison? Seems both have characteristics that Allison lack. Stash Laz and Moore on the PS.

I also think if GB keeps Allison, then go with 7 WRs with the idea that you can deal one in a trade to a team that has a injury at the position.

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RCPackerFan's picture

August 20, 2019 at 08:52 am

I think Allison is underrated. Last year one of the reasons why the offense struggled was because Allison got hurt. In the first 4 games last year he had 19 catches for 289 yards, (15.2 average) and 2 TD's. If those numbers held up for a whole season he would have had 76 catches for 1156 yards and 8 TD's.
I also think Allison is a really good fit to play in the slot. To me he is a lock for the 4.

I really like Shepherd and Lazard. I think they have a bright future. I would pencil them in for the 53 but the hard part right now is Davis. Davis is an explosive PR, who is one of the top gunners. I do like Shepherd as a PR/KR. and I think Lazard might be a good gunner as well.

Right now I think they will keep the 5 I said, and I think they keep Davis and Shepherd. I think they will try to get Lazard to the PS. I just don't know if that is the right choice. But I think that is what they will do.

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Old School's picture

August 20, 2019 at 08:59 am

IMO, we should carry 5 active on gameday, one more on the 53, and either one or two more.

I’d go with Adams, Allison, MSV, Kumerow, and Davis as the return guy. Why would Gute give Allison a $2.5 million contract, complete with $750K signing bonus, just so he could keep some guy who has never caught a pass in the league? Does that really make sense? And Davis is our only proven returner.

Shepherd makes the 53.

Try to get Lazard on the Practice Squad. In reality guys, there shouldn’t be a lot of targets for WRs not named Adams.
More runs, more passes to TEs and RBs.....there’s only one ball.

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

This would mean that we’re parting company with ESB and Moore after only one year. I don’t think we could realistically expect more than a conditional 7th..

It looks very much like Josh Jones will be released. That’s a high draft pick done after two years.

BUT.....the bottom line is that our WR group, and our S group, are pretty good units. So it’s not important that these guys are being released so early. When you get guys like Tonyan and Lancaster and Kumerow that kind of takes a little pressure off the need for your draft picks to work out.

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RCPackerFan's picture

August 20, 2019 at 09:01 am

6 WR's is very realistic.

From my understanding EQ has not stood out in camp. I don't think he has struggled just hasn't stood out. But I don't know if they let him go with what he did last year.

Shepherd was getting first team reps yesterday in practice. He has definitely been a highlight of camp. He offers something that none of the other WR's offer. He is the smaller, shiftier type who is a true slot WR. They don't have a guy like him. I think that improves his chances on making it. I think he makes it on the 53. And honestly I think he is now playing for more then a spot on the 53. He is playing to earn playing time in the offense.

RIght now unless Moore steps up big time in the final 2 games I don't think he makes it. They may try to get him on the PS, but I don't see them keeping him right now.

Speaking of Josh Jones. I think they are trying to trade him or will release him. His situation is odd, and honestly kind of odd that no one is really talking about him.

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blacke00's picture

August 20, 2019 at 09:35 am

The only WR which potentially has any trade value(if any) is Allison. As I've said before he's on a one year contract. If he the does well are the Packers willing to give him big money to stay? I doubt it. Same could be said for Kumerow.

Shepard and Lazard should then the team.
The packers have to look long term especially with other player contracts coming up. What can they afford?

Also, remember this is "training camp". A lot of player's are training camp all stars. When the regular season starts they are "meh"!

Gotta look at the whole picture

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dobber's picture

August 20, 2019 at 10:12 am

"The only WR which potentially has any trade value(if any) is Allison."

I think both MVS and ESB both also have meaningful game film from a year ago that could garner some interest from a team that has had bad WR luck this preseason. After that, I think you're right in that there's little to get from that next group of WRs.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

August 20, 2019 at 10:30 am

I tend to agree with your main point. However, Kumerow is an ERFA next year, so GB has years of control over Kumerow. Only Davis and Allison will be UFAs after this year.

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PatrickGB's picture

August 20, 2019 at 11:39 am

I wonder if the new scheme would allow for keeping as many WRs as the team did last year. I foresee more RBs ( including FB), 4 TEs, and possibly one more OLman. Maybe even the team keeps an extra DB. Matt’s scheme doesn’t often line up 4 WRs. I expect at least one less spot for a WR on the final cutdown. I would not be surprised if any or all of Lazard, Sheppard and Moore are released.

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Coldworld's picture

August 20, 2019 at 11:51 am

I think Davis is a victim of injury concerns and contract reality. I think a trade is increasingly likely. I believe Shepherd will make the roster. For Lazard to do so there must be a trade I suspect. I hope Moore can be stashed on the PS. He has, absent a game for the ages, not shown himself to be someone we can rely on at this point.

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