Got to watch him and he would have tore these defenses up in todays NFL

Croat, I did watch Bart Starr play and he was a great QB but he didn't have the talent that Aaron Rodgers brings to the field. He didn't have the arm strength and he didn't have the mobility that Rodgers has or the ability to throw on the run. The is not a knock on Starr it's just the truth.

Also and more importantly Bart played with 11 other HOF players on his team. Rodgers played with one so far, specifically Charles Woodson. If we put Aaron Rodgers on the field with 11 NFL HOFers how well would you think he would do. If we put Rodgers, Favre, Brady, Montana, Unitas and numerous other HOF QBs on the Lombardi Packers they might have never lost a game. Lombardi said that himself about Sonny Jurgenson when he went to coach the Redskins in 1969.

You take your bias against Rodgers as the reason to knock his play on the field. That is simply not fair. This will be my 61st season as a Green Bay Packers fan. So, I've seen them all and I love my Lombardi Packers as much as any fan. They are the reason I became a Packers fan and remained a Packers fan through all of the dark years during the 70s and 80s. As a long distance fan I could have switched allegiance at any time to the numerous bandwagons which evolved for the Cowboys, Steelers, Raiders, 49ers, and a few other front runners over this years. But I didn't. I stayed with the Packers because loyalty counts for me.

I'm not knocking Starr when I post that Rodgers is the more talented player. That's just reality. How can you say that a player you never watched play is better than any other player. What is your point of comparison? The five championships is 7 seasons. Yes, that's great achievement. But it is not Starr's achievement alone. it is and was the team's achievement and they get there with almost any of the great NFL HOF QBs because the team was that good and yet you diminish that team by posting the Starr was the reason winning those championships. The Lombardi defense held their playoff opponents to 9.7 points per game. Are you really going to make the point that Aaron Rodgers would not have a better playoff record if he played with a defense that held opponents to 9.7 points per game? If yes, that's absolutely ridiculous. Are you aware of the Packers record in games where Starr was injured and did not play? Look it up. You will find that it is a lot better than the Packers record without Rodgers. Why? Because the Lombardi Packers were a better team!!! OH and yes they had those 11 other HOFers on the team besides Starr.

Your opinion about Starr is fine. You are entitled to your own opinion. We are all entitled to our own opinions but we are not entitled to our own facts. And BTW, Bart Starr is one of my all time favorite Packers, more so than Rodgers. However, I can still be fair and honest with myself, Rodgers is a better player and I have watched them both play for the Packers. Thanks, Since '61

Mega Ditto.

Swisch’s comments actually diminish the Lombardi Packers and the other players who played for the Packers during the Lombardi years.

Starr played with 11 other HOF players. How do you think Rodgers would do with 11 other HOF players on his team? How many playoff games would Rodgers win if his defense allowed an average of 9.7 points per playoff game? Yes Starr was a great QB and yes he was a true gentleman but points win football games whether you are a true gentleman or not.
The other Lombardi Packers also had character maybe that is why won. Maybe there were other great leaders in the team like Hornung, Nitschke, Willie Davis, Forrest Gregg and Herb Adderly.

But for Swisch it’s all about Starr. That’s fine, Bart is one of my all time favorite Packers as well, more so than Rodgers. That doesn’t make Bart a better player than Rodgers. Bart never had the arm strength that Rodgers has and he never had the ability to extend plays and throw with deadly accuracy on the run. That’s not a knock on Starr it’s just an observation of the truth. Opinions are fine but for me I need to be honest with myself and fair about players. So when I see a better player I prefer to recognize that they are better than another player even one of my favorites like Starr.

Hornung was my first favorite Packer and is still one of my top favorites along with Starr and Nitschke. Yet when Gale Sayers came along it was obvious, at least to me, that he was a better HB and player than Hornung. Paul is still my favorite but I have no problem admitting that Sayers was better. Even though like most Packer fans I hate the Bears.

The point is that we watch sports to see what we have never seen before and what we may never see again. Just like we’ll never see another Sayers or Secretariat in horse racing, or Mickey Mantle is baseball, I doubt we’ll ever see another Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay. At least I doubt if I’ll last long enough for that. Thanks, Since ‘61

That would be one way of looking at it.

As I recall, Bart was given the HC job pretty much by acclaim. Nobody in the state was saying "No. He's not qualified. He has no experience". Nobody said that, but Bart himself was candid about it years later when he said he wished he'd had an opportunity to learn for a few seasons.

In any event, he inherited a really big bag of hot garbage. A bad team with a losing record and no real talent. AND, thanks to the Hadl trade, no premium draft picks, either. This was in the era before free agency so you were kind of limited in options to improving your roster.

He unloaded Hadl and traded for Dickey, who was our QB for about 8 or 9 years, but he was injured quite a bit because he was playing before the era of protected QBs. We got Lofton. We got Coffman and Jefferson. We drafted Ellis and Ivery.

In the end, we never got above 8-8 and his last season was 8-8. In a later interview, Bart said that he wasn't prepared to be a HC and made some early missteps, but he felt that he had grown a lot as a coach and that we were right on the threshhold. He was replaced by another Lombari era guy, Forrest Gregg, who went 8-8.

I'm not sure where you get the "completely ignored" people, but I suspect it has something to do with some draft mistakes. Sometimes, leaders listen to the people around them and then make their own decision, and sometimes that's unpopular, and sometimes that's incorrect, but it's part of the job.

So you're saying that the guy who was voted as the best player in football for the past two years has wanted to be paid like the best player in football for the past two years? Goodness, how mortifying.

You think Rodgers disrespects coaches? Ray Nitscke once got busted for breaking team rules by drinking. John Maxymuk, the author of “Packers by the Numbers" explains: "When he was spotted by Lombardi violating one of the coach’s rules by having a drink at the bar late in the 1960 season, Nitschke made no pretense of hiding but instead sent the coaches a round of drinks. Lombardi was furious and wanted to cut him on the spot, but defensive coach Phil Bengston calmed him down, since the team was short on healthy linebackers. Lombardi left it up to a vote of the team and Nitschke prevailed unanimously with that electorate."

Oh, but Rodgers is the one who defies authority? I mean after all, Rodgers talks about what he thinks is best for the team and such? Calls his own audibles now and then? Oh, the horror.

Lombardi's Packers had character, I guess? Ok, how are you defining "character?" Do you mean character as in, "Max McGee was quite a character! I don't think Aaron Rodgers would stay out till 6:30 am on the morning of the super bowl getting drunk with two flight attendants like Max did."

Is that what you mean by "character?"

Did Hornung show a lot of character when he was suspended for the entire 1963 season?

Did Vince Lombardi himself not go behind the back of the team and negotiate his own departure to Washington while he was still under contract in Green Bay, all without informing the Packers executive committee? Is that the "character" that is lacking in ARod?

Do I really need to enumerate how many of Lombardi's players were drunken, chain-smoking, womanizing frat-boys who seemed a little bit more concerned about their playboy lifestyle than they were about the team? Do you know anything about those players?

But it's Rodgers lacks commitment to winning. Righty-o. I guess people will see whatever they want to see.

LOL.

"Bart Starr won five championships in the 1960s"

No, the Green Bay Packers, with their 12 HOF players, and a coach many consider the greatest of all time, won five championships in the 1960s. Your continued assertion (obsession) that it was all Starr and his "character" that won all those rings, completely disrespects the memories of all those other great players.

Maybe it's time to take the damn blinders off.

Swisch, there is no way you can explain what is looks like anything, if thoise are blind or blinded. Tom Brady is not as "clever" as Aaron Charles Rodgers nor he posses that unbeliveable talent for football, but still have how mony SB won? Wow, how is that possible?

What people do not want to understand is that all the actions Aaron Rodgers did related to the Packers are so humiliating to Packers that it is hard to accept that.

OK. Aaron Charles Rodgers get the right to be consulted of his opinion when team prepares offensive plans for every game, he get the right to be consulted when team wants to hire some players, when it is draft time to whome team will drafted, which player will play and which one will not, which game he will play and which game he will not, when team deciding which players will be active foir game day and which will not, what is the best for his health and what not, and so on and so on.

OK. And than he is talking about accountabilty. MLF smoked his claim of his field vision and knowledge what defenses will do. So he gave him the right to change the called play by his assumption what will opponent D do.

We have very good evidence, 2 times in the row how his vision of the field, progression and knowldege what will defense do produced. 1 time it was NFCCG vs Bucs and secon time it was divisional game vs 49ers. Wow, how succeful he was in his oponent D assesment and his progression and his vision. OK, I know, I'm wrong. He is the missunderstood genius. His genius vision was missunderstood by Packers offense and opponent D. They did not left Davante Adams alone. Shame of them. Genius idea was that he will not throw to wide open Allen Lazard, but to triple covered Davante Adams, because nobody will expect that. WHat can go wrong?

I'll ask what kind of education Aaron Charles Rodgers has to be GM, HC and OC? Or at least player evaluator. As far as I informed, MLF was first assistent coach, than position coach, then QB coach, offensive coordinator and he was educated to become HC as he was right hand of his former HC. Also, how many times Aaron Charles Rodgers spent in studying young players through their high school and college career? You know how good evaluator he is? Where is Kumerow now, Where he is playing? The player, Mr ACR, aka DIva insisted to be on the roster, because he is top player. For which franchize Kumerow plays today? Can you tell me that?

What kind of medical education has Aaron Charles Rodgers? Obviously high medical education so he can decide what is the best for his health with no consulting physician or experts in the field. Oh, very, very clever...

He will not throw the ball to the young player, because that player may not catch his throw. He will rather throw ball away. What is the difference. Both plays ends as incomplitions. Oh, i forgot, that ball to young player can be intercepted and that would really have impact on his stats, almost perfect.

Again, it is personal opinion on any of the posters how they want to see ACR. I have no problem with that. I'm just sorry that, by this discussion looks like many do not see how someones character can influence ongroup of the people that are working together on the same goal...

By my opinion Aaron Charles Rodgers is self self sufficient, only loves himself (that he found again last summer, using some phycodelic drugs - that much of his medical expertize) and he will do everything to convince others he is guilty for nothing. His eloquence and intellingence helps him a lot in amanipulation with others. Do you ever ask yourself why Aaron Charles Rodgers does not have stady realtionship with women or men, whatever is his preference. He had admirers he is calling friends...

So Swisch, do not discuss with admirers, as any argument does not have influence on them...

I just hope his phycodelic drug helps him to follow what is agreed to be done...

Unfortunately Mike Holmgren is the last great Packer Coach and he abandoned GB. If ML ever gets there AR will not be. ML has so far proven to me he has not learned from his mistakes against better coaching nor does he have a steady rotation of more than 2-RB's which he has shut down the run game 2x in the playoffs because he did not use his alternate RB enough throughout the year to feel comfortable with him in the game. Love is young and moldable. GB does not need a league MVP to win a championship. They need a QB to play within the system and use the run and pass game to move the chains get close to the end zone and score points.

Nicest compliment I've had in some time, LH, thanks. If I were able to watch the Packers on TV with other people, I'd enjoy your company. I'm pretty much not fit for human consumption during games.

Multiple incidents of closed-head trauma probably can't be ruled out as a cause. I cannot blame drugs or television for my idiosyncrasies; no place for either in my world. Like you, I workout and read, and putz around here some. Besides that, there's still some daily work to be done, and dogs to be tended. Life is good.