Ridiculous
Now do some shows that make sense.
KEEP FIRE Gutekunst - The Case For and Against Keeping Brian Gutekunst
KEEP TRADE Jordan Love - The Case For and Against Keeping Jordan Love.

Without Matt Lafleur's play calling all of Jordan Love's ugly warts - which we all have seen several times at the biggest moments in games - would have been obvious, not just apparent.

No head coach - no matter how good the defense is and no matter how many Micah Parsons, Christian Watsons, Josh Jacobs, Tucker Krafts, Romeo Doubs, Jayden Reeds, Matthew Goldens, Xavier McKinney - is going to win a Super Bowl with Jordan Love at QB and more importantly Brian Gutekunst at general manager.

The Packers are blessed to have Matt Lafleur at coach - his players all love him - listen to Micah Parsons who said he would not have come to Green Bay if Lafleur was not coach. Listen to the other Packer players comments on this since the NFL and Packer GM sent out their propagandists to put this sensationalist nonsense to draw in more viewers and commenters.

The Packers players all love Lafleur - including poor inept Jordan Love. Lafleur has covered for Jordan's ineptitude so many times during interviews, which of course is critical. There is no need for a coach to publicly criticize his players and if they do it should be constructive criticism for the purpose of bringing the players mistakes to the players attention and motivating the player. I am sure Lafleur has done that behind closed doors with Jordan.

Lafleur is not at all the problem.

In Lafleur’s first 3 years with Rodgers as starting QB, Rodgers was 34 wins and 12 losses where Rodgers dropped back to pass more than the Packers ran – that is a 73.9% winning percentage.

In Lafleur’s first 3 years with Jordan as starting QB, Jordan is now 11 wins 19 losses and 1 tie in games where Jordan drops back to pass more than the Packers run - that is a ABSYMAL 37.1% winning percentage!!!

The NFL is still a passing league you cannot be a Super Bowl contender with a quarterback who after 3 years has an ABSYMAL 37.1% winning percentage when the team passes more than it runs in games!!!

Lafleur – a very very smart and aware coach – recognized that Rodgers passing accuracy, arm strength, ability to think and quickly process the field, and agility in the pocket and pocket awareness made passing a winning formula with Rodgers as starer so the Packers passed more than they ran in 46 of the 53 games - that is 86.8% - that Rodgers started under Lafleur in Rodgers first 3 years with Lafleur.

Lafleur – a very very smart and aware coach – recognized that Love had poor passing accuracy, weaker arm strength than Rodgers, an inability to think and quickly process the field, and a lack of agility in the pocket and pocket awareness made passing a losing proposition with Jordan as starter so the Packers have passed more than they ran in just 31 of the 52 games – that is 59.6% - that Jordan has started under Lafleur in Jordan’s first 3 years with Lafleur.

Lafleur's record now after 3 years - 52 games - with Jordan as the starter- OVERALL - whether passes exceed runs or runs exceed passes - is 28 wins 23 losses and 1 tie - 54.8% winning percentage.

Lafleur after 3 years - 53 games - with Rodgers as the starter was 41 wins 12 losses - a winning percentage of 77.4%.

Overall 77.4% winning record with Rodgers after 3 years compared to 54.8% overall winning percentage with 3 years of Jordan starting!!

AND JORDAN HAD A TOP 10 Packer Defense in 2 of the 3 years and this year's 11th ranked defense was in the top 10 through week 16 of 18. The Rams allowed only 20 and 19 points in week 17 and 18 relative to the Packers 41 and 16 points allowed after which the Rams overtook the Packers for the 10th position. Rodgers had a top 10 defense just 3 times in his 15 years as a Packer starter.

And Gutekunst has bent over backwards to gift Jordan with 1st 2nd and 3rd round draft choices on wide receivers - including the 1st receiver in Golden drafted in the first round since Javon Walker in 2002 - tight ends, running back, and offensive lineman.

And then Gutekunst way over pays for a great pass rusher in Micah Parsons because Gutekunst knows Jordan cannot carry the Packers as Rodgers did for 15 years with mediocre and poor defenses.

Jordan is our Carson Wentz.

Malik Willis is our Jalen Hurts.

Trade Jordan like Howie Roseman traded Carson Wentz.

Keep Malik Willis!

Fire Gutekunst!

Credit to Andy Herman.

Until just a few days ago, Andy bristled at criticism directed at MLF and made it clear that he considered fans who questioned MLF's coaching greatness to be, at best, misguided.

Indeed, after particularly rough parts of the 2025 season (like the loss to Cleveland followed by the tie in Dallas and the back to back losses at Lambeau to Carolina and Philly) he and Nagler during their regular weekly get togethers repeatedly scoffed at Packer fans who suggested MLF might not deserve a contract extension to coach the Packers for 3, 4, or even more years into the future.

Now, with yet another disastrous one and done playoff appearance and a 9-8-1 overall record in the books, Andy is at least willing to objectively discusses the cons of allowing MLF the highly-paid privilege of continuing to coach our favorite football team.

Thanks Andy, it takes a big person to concede, however tacitly, that fans who previously concluded that MLF is not a coach who will ever lead the Pack to a Super Bowl may not have been wrong after all.

fire mlf

All off-season, I naively thought Ed Policy was busy meeting with NFL execs, retired coaches, other experts to compile a list of the best GM/HC candidates. I based my belief on his statement that he did not want a lame duck/GM/HC and wasn't automatically renewing both contracts.

I don't think he ever met with anyone in the NFL. He is President in name only and is a 'rubber-stamper' for the one actually in charge. All of these modest talents, Gute, MLF, Policy were put in place years ago (2018) under a fraudulent power grab and will remain for 4 more years-that is what is undermining this team.

We all know that MLF is likely incapable of in-game adjustments, though he may try -he just doesn't seem to have the aptitude to respond to a clever DC. mid-game.Does Ed Policy really care? I doubt it. We know LF wants to continue to design and call plays and he has resisted help from a more qualified assistant/partner, so...
unless Policy steps in and requires LF to change-(hire a good OC, pay more attention to ST's, etc.) there will be tactical losses beginning in the second half of 70% of games. The games will be hard to watch, the score will be too close against lesser teams.

Don't expect more than 'above average'

Culture or execution? Keep or fire?

I don't know. With the cast of coaches and players, something is a miss. I am not sure what it is or if this is today's version of the NFL.

Keep or Fire? Lets do a little of both: some coaches and some players. I just want to Keep the Fires burning to the point we can friggin' win the games we are supposed to win and not collapse under pressure when the lights are brightest.

There is that saying, better to get rid of a player a year to soon than a year to late (or something like that). Does the same apply to coaches? It's obviously above my pay grade.

Pantz "2 centz" Burp

What former and current players say should be irrelevant. For one, they're not going to diss their boss, and two, players are naturally going to be resistant to change unless the situation is a total disaster.

Not to worry: If a new head coach is hired and he leads the players to greater heights and career success, they'll love him even more.

First lets get serious and talk money. Money rules the NFL. The packers dont include a coachs salary into the cap but they still have operating expenses to deal with and a small market. They may not be able to offer a coach a top competitive salary as a bigger market team like say Dallas.
Thus, the real issue with LeFleur, he should come cheaper then others because of his loss record in the playoffs. To let him go your looking at a coach who will want top dollar. Your not getting a Hairball on the cheap or any other HC on the prowl right now cheaply so the answer is "LeFluer isnt going anywhere".

Fire, This is a poorly coached, low football IQ team.

Can we talk about defenders catching a 4th down interception and costing the team 27 yards? Inexcusable? How does that happen in a playoff game. And then they did it a SECOND TIME!?!? Low IQ.

Also, I'm sick of hearing how great Hafley is. He's just okay.

Constantly bringing up Matt Lafleur's win % Is pure propaganda! His post Aaron Rodgers Win Loss % Isn't that Impressive and to constantly try to convince people that Matt Lafleur Is a great coach based on his number of wins In the NFL Is total nonsense! It's time the Packers move on from the over rated Matt Lafleur.

The amount of contortions some people are going through to excuse what even they can’t accept is, honestly, staggering.

If it isn’t and hasn’t been working for several seasons it’s broken. If it’s been failing across significantly changing rosters, it’s very likely not the rosters alone. If it’s failing for similar reasons, then it’s not a learning curve but a ceiling.

If it’s broken and we don’t fix it, it’s going to stay broken. It will stay broken even if one closes one’s eyes and insists that it isn’t. How do you know? When you open them and find nothing has changed but season has passed.

There is an old saying that one can’t honestly claim to make the same mistake twice, once you know the result.

Why? By the second and subsequent times one makes it the result is known. It’s therefore not a mistake, but a choice to end up with that outcome.

It's very difficult for fans to finally accept the truth about their team because it would mean either sticking one's head in the sand (the most common) and praying for an annual miracle or it would entail disengagement which seems to be heavily judged as being a quitter or a fair-weather fan, etc.
Loyalty to a team seems primal and tribal for many. I also see signs of not wishing to look a bit deeper as to the Packer's under-lying power structure and how it undermines the team.

I will miss the team but I see 4 more years of continued mismanagement and dishonesty from the top-down which makes it easier to cut ties. I cannot accept that I will invest hours per week in this current enterprise. (It wasn't always this bad) I will try to follow Hafley but I pray he doesn't choose the Cardinals or Titans-lol.

He needs to go. Tough situation for him, but he'd be better off somewhere else and subsequently, so would this team.

I keep hearing "Nobody knows Ed Policy." I certainly don't, but someone ought to. Tell me if he avoids confrontation or not. If he does, he's the worst type of leader you can possibly have, and MLF stays.

I've read a lot of comments/reasons for moving on from MLF and the case they make is incredibly strong. Should be common sense actually. Not the "Who else is there, we need stability, he's a nice guy," etc. B.S.

If they keep him, a big reason will be because they think the fan base will forget about this again and still show up. Donate a lot of their time and money for tickets, concessions, clothing, accessories, STOCK, etc. and be given a substandard product by an organization that seems to pretend to give a damn about winning. A lot of them with a block of cheese stuck on their heads.

If the possibility of trading MLF truly exists, could they trade him to the Texans for their defense?

Here's hoping common sense is just that this time around.

After Mike Whale yesterday I'm better adjusted to GB trying to bring back LeFailure and for a couple reasons, even though it should be recognized that to date, he really has failed.

1) it's legitimately possible they can't agree on a contract.

2) he started as HC younger than the typical 7 year HC window without a SB. Not sure if this means he's likely to keep improving? He'd certainly need to.

3) he doesn't seem to have lost the roster. Quay Walker maybe? These are still very young men and I hope 1 comment won't determine a career, especially if he (or any player) follows up with walking it back, saying it was rash or ill advised, etc.

My main hesitation remains, how does any HC come back after this?!? Which is not a claim that I factually know he can't, only that I don't see it. Not with realistic expectation of fixing everything that's broken, I mean. The biggest single issue here is my #2 above, holding his feet to the fire with specific steps to fix known problems looks awfully like being on the hot seat, and I see no indication that his ego could tolerate that instead of just going elsewhere. Ditto with the necessary admission that he's failed so far. It's no fun being in a work environment with a figurative gun held to your head, and apparently he NEEDS to commit to concrete steps to make sure that difficult game situations including clock management and coach's challenges while play calling is still critical are handled well without fail. I think he's painted himself into a corner with this in that he can maybe handle two of these at the same time (or maybe not) but certainly no more than that and since he hasn't delegated any of these responsibilities in 7 years to ensure it's not a problem he's not going to do so of his own accord.

I don't see a reason to think Ed Policy will be so assertive, nor do I think that would work. Which suggests to me the failure would only continue.

Even though Hafley is a complete unknown as NFL HC he's humble enough to recognize what he can't do, and turned the culture around on his side of the ball. Keeping him greatly reduces the risk of a MLF-less 2026. I also am not sold on the idea that MLF and JL10 are a great tandem, if only because MLF obviously enjoys calling plays for #2 more. This might always cap the ceiling of this duo.(?) Ditto the combination of MLF and Gutey, something's out of sync between who Gutey acquires vs how they're developed, evaluated, and utilized. These are 2 key situations that need to be improved if keeping MLF is to lead to greater success. Pretty sure HC Hafley could at least take a step in the right direction with both those problems, too.

Losing Hafley while keeping MLF would suck. Keeping both? Might not be bad, but LOTS of lingering problems would need to be effectively addressed and I just don't see why that's likely after 7 years of one HC.

Why is this deal taking so long, should be pretty simple one way or the other…

Packers vs Bears. Last 50 years

I can see why Ben wants a rivalry.

Packer vs bears last 5 through 50 years …

5 years. Packers. 8-3

10.years Packers 17-4

15 years Packers 25-6

20 years packers 31-11

25 years Packers 38-14

30 years Packers 45-16

35 years Packers 51-20

40 years Packers 53-28

45 years Packers 57-32

50 years Packers 59-40

The past 4 games. Packers 1-3. And shouldn’t have lost either

Special team failures on last 3 losses

He didn’t do anything to win those. We choked the chicken on those.

Special teams should be special….Its a stock and the stock hasn’t risen over time in Green Bay

It needs to rise and get higher on the dowjones ……………

How does a stock rise. New ideas. New strategies. New functionality. New. Fundamentally sound. Etc. etc

It’s sad. The 49 ers game the last two games vs bears come down to a bad stock

Keep Hafley.

Firstly, great podcast.

Anyone listening to this has to come away saying fire MLF/Choker. And btw, you missed a key reason - how many games under MLF/Choker have the Packers played a full 60 minutes of good football? There is just something wrong with his prep of the team. His record with Rodgers doesn't count AT ALL, only with Love. Love is not a HOF qb (yet) even though his numbers looked good this year. So keeping MLF/Choker is keeping mediocrity. Unfortunately, that is the Packers MO as of late. A BIG part of that is MLF/Choker himself and his past coaches. Spirit of Lombardi is gone.

The only valid reason IMO to keep him is that the next guy might be worse. Terrible way to run any business.

So where does that leave us. I can't judge if Hafley is ready to be head coach but it seems to be a given that he will be. So I would offer it to him.

Worse case, if Hafley doesn't want it, you structure a contract with increasing salary based on performance. And first year has to be at least 1 playoff win and a close 2nd game. (being gracious here) with no obvious team blunders like a blocked kick or muffed on-side kick. MLF/Choker can add some outs like only if Love and Parsons plays 98% of snaps. Sounds almost baby-ish but doesn't the current scenario demand it. At the end of the day, Packers have to have something in there about performance. Will MLF/Choker agree? If he thinks he could for sure do it, it shouldn't be a problem. If he is insulted by it, you have to let him walk. Otherwise, what's the point of the negotiation.

I'm pretty tired of seeing a team either wait until the half to start playing or start well and completely fall apart. Too many 3 n-outs in succession without adjustments. Keeping lesser assistants who will never move on or up in any other team. (ML Issues)

Trying to field a team without a quality starting DL...DE....CB's...OL....WR 1 (GUTE Issues)

AR did not have ANY of these issues in his MVP runs Minus a #2 WR....When ML had a loaded team...he looked pretty good...not so much now.....but the changes are Huge now.... Gute needs to Draft a lot better or start sniping other teams talent at a high clip or it won't matter who the coach is, but the players as assembled don't have the killer instinct to win most games that are a tough fight, much less a Championship.