I just read that Bryce Young had not thrown a TD pass in his last 4 games. But against our defense he throws 2 TDs, get 300 yards passing, and almost completes a comeback win. We probably won't make the playoffs, (even though we have had a better than expected year), and we are just making our draft picks lower with any wins at this point. Fire Barry and let someone else lead the defense. It couldn't be worse than it is now, and just like the players, this coaching staff needs evaluating too.

At least you now see some symptoms but still lost in the trees trying to find the woods.

So you would like to change offenses when Love and skill players are peaking in a year or two? It isn’t relevant that the surprise in 2019 was Rodgers visibly improving his technique and the fact that was Rodgers doing not the team. That was not expected, that and a good run of close results inflated that record except against one particular team of course where we made the same mistakes the second time with the same outcome.

You credit LaFleur for developing Love, not Clements, whom LaFleur didn’t hire. You cite issues at Coordinator but fail to tie them to the exit each year. You praise his analytic approach but miss the fact that he’s unable to learn lessons when playing teams twice in a season?

You mentioned how insipid the O design was last year but omit Rodgers frustration with the 4 ypa D and omit his impact on the mild improvement. You don’t really talk about the O Line coaching despite referencing it as a Long standing problem.

Even still hanging in to those 4 wins where the D helped us last year, but against Os that, In hindsight, we’re very poor or hobbled. Now we might squeak in after a gift of a schedule and despite Barry, but are we good? We have potential but still carrying anchors among the coaches not merely D.

Sorry, you are not seeing the patterns or context. Analytics without the macro analysis, just the micro usually ends in error. This isn’t changing, he’s not growing, don’t waste this team on trying to excuse the unchanging.

LaFleur hasn’t improved in any of the areas you listed in 5 years. That’s longer than most head coach tenures. Too long for this kind of change avoidance. Change now, it will only get worse with delay and more harmful to the young talent.

LaFleur is an empty huckster who got very lucky. He might be a decent OC. See through the talk or expect mediocrity or worse. Every season excuses only to repeat the failings.

Yes change is not guaranteed to bring success, but believing that the unchanging will somehow produce better results in hires or season outcomes is virtually guaranteed not to. Hindsight suggests LaFleur wasted Rodgers and Adams more than it seemed at the time, not the reverse. Let’s not excuse him wasting Love and co.

Should he no have been on the hot seat for keeping Mo Drayton when the entire football world knew after week 4, 2021 that he was a liability? We have been here before with Pettine, Mennenga and Drayton.
Should he have not been on the hot seat for his inconsistency on offense last year.. ( no excuses Flacco, Minshew, etc have done more with less)
Does he not stick with players that don’t play winning football?
It’s year five, too many convenient excuses.
Is it such a stretch to imagine a staff is out there that would demand accountability, mistake free play and a tough ,aggressive culture.
I think when you carefully consider the last 5 years you will see at the biggest moments MLF has not produced. Now even his press conferences are embarrassing. They may even destroy next years unity if he keeps throwing players under the bus.
McCarthy did this and was fired in season, and he had a ring. MLF has been given enough rope, and we’ve heard enough excuses.
Move on, let’s be a hard hitting, smart, aggressive team in 2024 and take back the central.
Like the saying.. if someone shows you who they are, believe them… well has MLF shown who he is in 86 games??

I’m suspecting LaFluer is pissed about the Ds performance. I also suspect that Mark and Gutey handle the coordinators contracts…just like the coaching contracts. If this is Barry’s last year in the contract…it will be his last year in GB. I think that even if LaFluer wanted to fire Barry…he can’t because Gutey and Murphy control that. Look at how long Capers was retained. If Pettines contract wasn’t renewed , Barry’s is definitely not gettting renewed. There’s probably dirty details in the contracts for early terminations etc… But I think LaFluer, although he has some input…I dont t think he can fire anyone. Mccarthy probably wanted Capers gone….but again, it was most likely a contract situation that only upper management has control over. Clements is stable in a QB room, but he was terrible as an OC. Anyone know how long LaFluers contract is for? But I don’t believe for one second that LaFluer has the authority to hire and fire anyone.

I don't think MLF has the authority to fire Barry, same thing with Drayton who cost the Packers, now its Barry costing the Packers what could have been an incredible first season for Love.

Absolutely, MLF should be on the hot seat! He is simply not a credible leader anymore. Accordingly, listening to this podcast is not needed.

Let's face it- LaFleur continues to be a HC due to the Peter Principle. He is in a position that is far above his abilities. He is an OC, not a HC. It's no surprise with such a lack of management skills that his hires fall under the same heading.

Worse yet, he is a bad team leader under pressure. And he is wilting under that pressure now. When the going gets tough, LaFleur tends to play the blame game. Unfortunately, he tends to direct the blame away from the true and obvious culprits - himself and his coaching staff.

So while fans have tended to take their frustrations out on Barry (me included), his continued employment is just a symptom of bad leadership from our HC. Pure and simple.

The Packers deserve a better HC. GPG

Interesting question that has several layers to it.
So are my positives on MLF:
1. His overall W,L record is impressive. Including 17-2 in December. Now, you can say that he has benefited from having AR at QB which carries some weight. But ultimately wins and losses are the name of the game in this business. And he is attached to that record as HC
2. How much influence has MLF had in the development of JLove. Hard to say but he is an offensive minded coach and this was the most important issue was to see if J Love is the next "guy". It appears he has shown tremendous growth. And so, again this has happened under the watch of MLF
3. MLFs connection with J Love. The QB/ Head Coach relationship is VITAL to a teams success. We don't need more proof than the Holgren/ Farve connection. Does MLF have that with Love ? If yes, than it's hard to make a case to move on from him.

Ok. Now some concerns:
1 From time to time we see some really good offensive play calling. The Lions and Chiefs games stand out as the most recent. However, there are games where the usage of Aaron Jones seems to be an issue. This all or none approach to his usage is frustrating to say the least.
2. This blind loyalty to Joe Barry is completely maddening!!! You can make an argument that he is prioritizing friendship over winning. THAT is a problem and it may have cost this teams chances of a post season appearance and possibly losing the locker room. And if he has lost the locker room over this issue then maybe this team needs a new voice and direction.
Tough call here but I think MLF returns and Barry will be gone after the season ends.
Maybe J Love can overcome his opponents AND Joe Barry and lead this team to the playoffs.

Having read all your ideas I agree with the problems stated but lets focus on the cause of those problems. I say its simple, what LeFleur does is based on how the team practices. For example, Taylor has been on the team three years. I say when LeFleur takes Jones out because he is tired and goes to a passing attack and doesnt just bring in Taylor (Dillon is hurt now) its because Taylor doesnt get to practice. he watches practice and knows the plays but Jones and Dillon get all the time.
Kraft, he wasnt playing either until injuries. I say that was because he was made third string and didnt get to practice but learned the plays watching.
LeFleur has a simplfied scheme: screens left and right, an end around, short passes over the middle and to the out and run game up the middle. This way the O line knows how to block on a limited number of plays they do making practice easier.
This also makes the packers easier to defend. Maybe thats why they think the defense is better then it is because the defenders know what is coming from the formation and look better in practice then in reality.

Thus Lefluer is not a great or even a good coach he is a manager with limited abilities to make game time changes when they are needed because they only practice so much and only some players know how to execute.

This seems to be an uber-cautious rationale for retaining MLF; like oh, no, Jordan Love and the offense will fall flat on their faces if we bring in a new head coach. I don't think that would be the case at all. It should also be noted that MLF has had lapses in play-calling at times--like abandoning the run game too early after it's been working; predictable red-zone approaches, and lack of adjustments.

I don't trust MLF to knock it out of the park or whatever with the DC decision. Number one, he has a poor track record with his hires and has displayed an almost legendary stubbornness in sticking with them through their demonstrated deficiencies. Number two, what kind of defense are we looking for here? This is a complex topic that involves other aspects of the organization, but to make a long story short, we need something a whole lot different than we're doing now. Does MLF want generally the same schemes but just a little less passive? Maybe a little more creative, but the same underlying finesse approach? Does he want someone familiar that he can be pals with or will he allow himself to be challenged with a results-based, no-nonsense individual that will change the culture?...This is a big, big decision, and whether MLF is up to the task is questionable at best.

You can say that the current Packer team has met expectations with the W-L record at the beginning of the season, which is fine, but exceeding them would be better. Conservatively speaking, this coaching staff has probably cost us two wins. I would think that the stronger possibility of reaching the playoffs would carry a little more weight here.

In my mind, MLF has served as a useful bridge between the Rodgers and Love era. But I think we're going to need to do some upgrading across a few areas if we're to become a serious Super Bowl contender again.

Andy, a question for you:

not that it would happen, but if MLF were the playcalling OC under a new HC, wouldn't that give JL10 the continuity he needs?