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Negative Narratives Piling Up for Packers

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Negative Narratives Piling Up for Packers

The Green Bay Packers lost more than a game Thursday night against the Seattle Seahawks.  Tight end Jimmy Graham and defensive lineman Mike Daniels both suffered injuries that will keep them out at least a few games.

It's always a physical match up between the Packers and Seahawks and, much like the last time the Packers were in Seattle, this one seemed like another knockout punch.

Green Bay has six games left this season and essentially need to win them all for any hope of a postseason.  With road games at Minnesota and Chicago standing in the way, that's no small task.

Over the past nearly three decades, we've become wired to talk Packers playoff chances.  This season, however, we may be fooling ourselves to bother that that line of thinking.

The Packers have disappointed themselves and their supporters numerous times this season and continue to find new ways to do it.  Rumblings about the job security of head coach Mike McCarthy are as loud as can be.  Concern over the play of quarterback Aaron Rodgers have many throwing their arms up.

The narratives are adding up.  Most are not positive.  So how bad is it in Green Bay right now?  Let's examine a few of the things commonly heard around league circles regarding the Packers.

Mike McCarty is Gone After This Season

Last season, coming off of an NFC championship appearance, the Packers were 4-1 before Aaron Rodgers was injured and missed half of the season.  

As expected, the team didn't fare well with Brett Hundley leading the offense and Green Bay missed the postseason.  McCarthy got a pass because he didn't have his ace - Aaron Rodgers.

As early as late 2017, there was talk about McCarthy's job security and the common thought was that if the team was middling or worse with Rodgers, McCarthy would be in trouble.

A year later and with Rodgers having started every game, the Packers are 4-5-1.  They've lost all five road games and have played, at times, some very uninspiring football.

McCarthy has been through this before during his 13 year tenure in Green Bay but in looking at the demeanor of the players during games and hearing McCarthy provide no answers when asked about his team, this year feels different.

That's exactly what veteran receiver Randall Cobb said recently.  Acknowledging the 2016 run of eight straight wins, including two playoff games, Cobb said that this season just doesn't have the same feel to it.  In that same interview, he twice said "it's not fun".

McCarthy isn't and never has been the rah-rah type of coach.  Fiery speeches in the locker room aren't his style.  He gets fired up and emotional at times, but his approach with the team is one of an even keel.  His goal is to protect his locker room from the outside noise.

At this point, McCarty seems to be single handedly guarding the door while the mob coming at him grows increasingly bigger.  The writing seems to be on the wall and it doesn't appear that this season is going to produce anything magical.

A playoff appearance at the very least was likely needed to save McCarthy's job.  With Rodgers running the show, the expectation likely grew to a deep playoff run.  The Packers still have to line up for the final six games but the odds of achieving either of those two goals is lofty.

Only the players in the 

McCarthy is likely in his swan song as Packers head coach and Rodgers will get his third head coach in 2019.

Aaron Rodgers is Declining

Rodgers has been at the center of the debate about McCarthy's future with the Packers.  It's been a tough season for Rodgers and he certainly hasn't played well for stretches of time.  Some of those very long stretches.

Rodgers' knee injury in week one is still pointed to as a reason for some of those struggles but seemingly week after week, Aaron is missing open receivers and costing his team drives.

There could be many reasons why this is happening at such a rate: vision issues, which we don't know of.  Frustration with the offense and McCarthy, certainly possible and it's leading Rodgers' mind to wander away from the basics of the offense.  Or, maybe time is finally taking its toll on Rodgers.

If I showed you Rodgers' stat line from the Seattle game beforehand, you would have assumed that the Packers likely win that game, probably easily.  They should have.  But Rodgers, once again, missed some throws and chose to dance around under pressure and take a bad sack instead of protecting the down and distance.

The awareness of the game situation looks bad on Rodgers at times and it's not something we're used to.  A look at the tape shows that sometimes it's the call, other times it's just him.  Was that tendency to cave the reason that McCarthy chose to punt on fourth down late in the Seattle game?  Very plausible.

This is just a rough season for the Packers.  Rodgers has to improve his overall game management but from a pure talent standpoint, I don't think we've arrived at any "Father Time" discussions.  Not yet.

With an offseason to heal and what should be a new offense next season, let's see what Rodgers can do.  He's had his injuries along the way but he still has the arm talent.  We saw it twice this past week.  For the first time since 2006, a quarterback (Rodgers) threw a ball at least 50 yards in the air.  

It hasn't been Rodgers' best season but a decline in skills isn't likely the reason.

This Packers Team is Too Talented to Underachieve

Many will say that a team is what their record says they are.  The Packers are a sub .500 team right now.

Coming into this season, the offense had most of its offensive line returning, a stable of rookie receivers with potential, Jimmy Graham added at tight end and Aaron Jones healthy and ready to ride.

On the defensive side, they had Mike Pettine as new defensive coordinator, young cornerbacks Jaire Alexander and Josh Jackson added to the mix with veteran Tramon Williams and Kevin King.  Kenny Clark and Mike Daniels made up the formidable front and Kentrell Brice had another year of experience next to Ha Ha Clinton-Dix at safety.

How things can change in just two months.

The Packers managed to stay healthy through the first eight games but didn't get the elevated play from Brice like they had hoped.  Daniels has been quiet this season and is now hurt and will miss a few weeks.  King is once again a week to week guess as to whether or not he plays.

Guys like Alexander, Clark and linebacker Blake Martinez have been solid for the defense.  And that defense is faring well, statistically.  They've been a bright spot this season.  Creating pressure from everywhere and keeping opposing offenses on their heels.

So how are the Packers losing this many games?

Talent is another way to say "potential ceiling".  If players don't reach that ceiling or come close to it, that talent never equates and we have to reset the talent level that we first thought we had.

Injuries have forced some role players to have to play regularly: Raven Greene, Robert Tonyan, Montravious Adams, for example.  But the reality is that the Packers may just not have the level of talent that we thought they did.

40 times and how high a player can jump are great but those aren't things that a lot of players do in an actual game.  It's about how they play when the pads go on and the lights shine bright.

In the example of the Packers outside linebackers, they've been virtually a zero so far this season.  Clay Matthews finally got out of the officials' spotlight but has been very average.  Nick Perry has been a total bust this season and is now on the shelf with an injury.  Kyler Fackrell, of all guys, has stepped up and played well above his head.  Speaking of a talent debate, is Fackrell actually more talented than we previously thought?

This is always going to be a healthy debate: how talented are these Packers, really?  Right now, they're good enough to have won four games in 10 tries.  


Those are just a few of the bigger narratives thrown around about the Packers.  Add yours in below and chime in with your thoughts on where this team stands, Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers.


Jason is a freelance writer on staff since 2012 and also co-hosts Pulse of the Pack podcast.  You can follow him on Twitter here

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (116) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Lphill's picture

McCarthy did not have Hundley prepared for last season , another reason he should have already been gone but I guess they wanted to replace Capers first now it’s time for a new HC .

lebowski's picture

One of the biggest narratives on McCarthy is he's average and Rodgers carries this team, and last year was his chance to change that perspective. He failed miserably.

LeotisHarris's picture

Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

dblbogey's picture

Went right over their heads, Lebowski.

The TKstinator's picture

The dudes don’t abide?

LeotisHarris's picture

I figured the 4 down votes were either from Nihilists, or guys from Two Rivers.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

I'll be pretty interested to see how Hundley does in the Seahawks offense when he gets a chance to play. Then we'll get to see if Carroll wanted him for more than just his gum chewing accumen.

GBPDAN1's picture

We need a lot to happen this off session. I think BG will come through and we will field a very good team next year and we will have an easier schedule outside the division

dobber's picture

Very little of the schedule (2 games) is actually dictated by where they finish in the standings, and because the Packers finish 3rd (which is where they finished last year) doesn't guarantee they won't get an Atlanta or Philly on their schedule who might just be having down years. This year's schedule (NFC West, AFC East) out of division hasn't turned out to be that awful daunting.

Handsback's picture

New Orleans had a streak of of 7-9 seasons. They didn't fire their coach, trade Brees, or get a new GM....they just kept drafting better players and now may have the best team in the NFL. I keep going back to two issues, first is why do Rodger's contract with two years remaining esp. after coming off an injury. Second, if you read about the offense put in this year you would think they they got no input from Rodgers. The special teams play and defense aren't why the Packer's have a losing record. The defense is playing well in spots and the special teams aren't very special, but the losing record is due to Green Bay's offense.

Rodgers isn't playing like he has in the past. He's a better than average QB, but not in any elite category. Did MM and Philbin draw up a new offense that showcased Rodger's talent, but he can't work it this year? You know they didn't put in a new playbook w/o Rodger's OK or at least take into consideration his skill set. So let's say Green Bay says goodbye to MM...who is the new coach? Do you want a first time HC? Or do you wait for more talent to arrive and see if the team can become like the Saints under Payton? I don't know the answer. I'm the kind of guy that would rather zig when everyone else is zagging. In other words, I would go after a defensive HC verses another offensive guy. I don't know what the Packers will do, but pulling the trigger on a new coach is very risky when you have a QB with a limited number of years left to play.

GoPackGo99's picture

Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy were both hired at the same time. Both have a Super Bowl win under their belts. The difference is:

Brees v Rogers- both top notch QB's
Thomas v Adams- both true #1 WR's
NO RB's v Jones/Williams- Advantage NO- BUT they use those backs in the passing game and find innovative ways to get them touches. Mike does not.
Both D's show flashes, but largely average

Sean's offense has evolved to match todays NFL. Mike's offense is stuck in 2011.

Remember when the announcer quotes were all around stopping our quick passing game and slants. Yeah. I do, back in 2011. Now, we are ALL Go routes on 2nd and 2 and 3rd and 2. We forgot RB was an actual position that can elevate stress on a struggling QB and move the chains.

McCarthy, your timer has popped, game over.

Gort's picture

There is no " i " in elevate.

LeotisHarris's picture

True, and there also is no "I" in pad level.

The TKstinator's picture

How about “paid” level?

JimR_in_SoCal's picture

I’m currently watching my iPad level.

Gort's picture

I think there is a "level" app for your iPad.

dobber's picture

"Sean's offense has evolved to match todays NFL."

Two other possible ways to say this...
1. Payton's offense has evolved to fit his personnel
2. Payton's offense has evolved and is currently defining today's NFL

Let's not lose track of the fact that New Orleans has had a top 10--if not top 5--offense most years that Brees has been their QB. They've pretty much always been good. Now that they're winning, people are trying to figure out why, and it's a copycat league...

Rebecca's picture

“elevate stress” probably not what you meant
alleviate stress should work instead

flackcatcher's picture

Brees also changed his play style, he became more of a system QB. in other words, he adapted his style and is a far more disciplined QB than he was over the past couple of years. This is the year that age and ego have finally caught up to Rodgers. Can Rodgers change like Brady and Brees have done successfully. In the past he has done so, his play in 2014 with a bad hamstring driving that Packer team to the NFC champ was some of the best quarterback play in a decade. So it comes down to doing it. What Rodgers can do is become more a system quarterback, and let his play makers make plays, it not to late to do that. Overall I agree. Though it may not look like, this is a team with a high upside with the ability to do a quick turnaround. Everything is in place for this team front office wise. This team will rise or fall on Aaron Rodgers. It's what he wanted, now he got it.

Mojo's picture

In response to flackcatcher's comment, I couldn't agree more. I watched part of NO's game yesterday and marveled how decisive and quick Brees was throwing the ball. Also noticed how often he takes the snap from under center creating the possibility of play action. Three-or-four step drops, he quickly goes through progressions and then zip - off the ball goes. Sometimes will throw into tight spots, others times he'll try to feather a pass down the sideline.

He's an example of what havoc a veteran QB can create he plays within the system taking what the play was designed for. From what I've heard a necessity in Paytons offense.

An article from SI earlier this year discussed with some offensive coaches what make up high level QB traits: "...After the requisites of arm talent, football IQ and leadership, there are three characteristics of top-level quarterbacking, all of which Brees has in abundance.
The first is the ability to play within the pocket. Brees’s pocket mobility and awareness is as refined as anyone’s, which is how he has learned to create vision lanes for himself that overcome his 6’0” stature.

" The second top-level quarterbacking characteristic is the ability to work smoothly through all of your reads. New Orleans runs a pure progression-read scheme, meaning Brees’s reads are always 1-2-3-4-5. (He’s famous for taking mental reps all the way through Read 5 on every snap in practice, regardless of when the ball is thrown.) Progression passing tends to be a simpler approach. Naturally, many QBs who do it are “see it” guys, meaning they must see a read show open before pulling the trigger. Brees, with his trove of wisdom, has long been the rare anticipatory progression passer. He can anticipate and target certain progressions without confirming that they’re open."

"The third characteristic of top-level quarterbacking is the ability to manipulate defenders with your eyes and mechanics."

I think Rodgers does the third one well, but does not stay in the pocket enough or go through his progressions as he should and between that and running around alot misses open receivers. Plus, he doesn't throw open as much as he should. He needs to trust his receivers more and not just wait until they're obviously open.

This is why I cut MM some slack. If he had a QB like Brees who works within the system much more than a freelancer like Rodgers, then we wouldn't being seeing open receivers constantly bypassed, the sacks and missed opportunities.

MM's inability to reign in Rodgers is going to ultimately get him fired more than scheme and playcalling.

Da Streetz's picture

Lmmmffaoooo. An when Rodgers was killling it all u haters where swinging from his nuts. Its 4he play calling. We have a great rb why has the best ypa in the N.F.L. USE HIM. U CANT RUN PLAYACTION IF U NEVER RUN THE BALL. RODGERS IS THROWING THE BALL 2AY TOO MUCH. USE 5HE RUN TO SET UP THE PASS

Mojo's picture

No one one knows who's responsible for the play-calling. With broad ability to audible out just about any situation, I have no idea if it's MM's offense or Rodgers.

With the amount of passes to runs (around 7 to 3 against Seattle) and how often the play clock is at or near zero on the snap, I get the feeling ARod is circumventing much of MM's scheme.

Don't know for sure, but until someone lists each play, what was supposed to happen and what ended up happening, I can't say one way or another who's at fault when the offense sputters so often.

I just know that the coach and QB in NO are on the same page this year.

packergal's picture


Recently, I heard a caller lament the lack of respect Brees has received from ESPN and other media that "worship AROD" and refuse to recognize Brees performance as superior to ARODS over their respective careers.

The caller claimed that AROD was running on a "post Favre" reputation; his only redeeming quality was limiting INTs and his record was horrid compared to Brees and even to Brady.....

So just for fun, I looked up the records of all 3 players:

The AROD record: 64-16 at H and 43-44 A (away)
The Brady record: 133-24 at H and 97-44 A (away)
The Brees record: 87-48 at H and 71-65 A (away)

LeotisHarris's picture

There are those ::COUGH:: Aaron Nagler ::COUGH:: who say QB wins/losses is not a statistic.

Given these records, can we still be mad about TT drafting King instead of Watt? How about the whole Tony Mandarich - Barry Sanders draft?

And, what the hell is that thing on DooBeez' face?

stockholder's picture

Yes - Lets say they get rid of MM. Gute just made a mistake in drafting. Why? He drafted Burks for the defense that hasn't changed. Positional player! But who keeps coaching Bust? We changed the secondary all around because of BUSTs. Change === Thats been the success. How many times do you want that changed? Ok it's the pass Rush. Really? Where are the pass rushers? They have a committee. An old Capers defense driven by a new coach. No one dominates! You now opened the door for bad drafting. Arron isn't happy with the Wrs. Arron isn't happy with the OL. A_Rod just isn't happy. You need to fire / sell everyone now. Top to Bottom. How close are we? This is what MM has had to deal with this year. Gute is trying to form the old into new. All to please A-Rod. Has A-Rod earned his money? Yes on TV Commercials. But the whispers in the NFL are A_rod is done. This season is on A-Rod. And he's Nuked MM. Two head coaches and they failed. You have had the best coaching in the NFL. It didn't work because a QB doesn't want it to work. A QB that is old and stale. I see new Wrs with promise, I see Arron Jones and new RBs. Didn't TT bring in RBs to late? I now see an old QB that just is not going to take this team anywhere. You guys wanted him paid. What a mistake.

mnklitzke's picture

I think you have bummed your head if you think Rodgers is done. Fresh play caller that actually schemes to his players strength not the other way around. Do you think Fackerall is really just turned around his game or has Pettine put him in the best position to succeed? I think the Latter. So if we can get someone new and fresh in I think things will be fine. Rodgers game needs to change a bit as he is getting older but we need to be the ball out of his hands faster so he doesn't get killed every game. We don't need to go for the kill shot all the time. Move the chains.

The TKstinator's picture

@stock: Incoherent much?

stockholder's picture

No- it's never easy going against the grain. Still you need salt and sugar to make bread.

The TKstinator's picture

And a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down.

(Unless you’re diabetic.)

Gman1976's picture

I love the analogy between the Packers and the Saints, but to say that the special teams aren't why the Packers have a losing record is wrong. The many missed field goals, running out of the end zone and fumbling (when the returner was told to down it in the end zone), the massive amount of penalties (especially those that negate long gains), and the growing pains of a good young punter have been difference makers. The offensive play calling by our HC & play making by our injured QB have not been up to par do cry out for changes for a new HC/offensive coordinator since there is a definite lack of creativity, lack of using a very good RB, and a lack of in-game strategy changes when thing are going wrong. After a long pattern of mediocrity, it's time to change the offensive play calling one way or another and take advantage of the talent that we do have.

dblbogey's picture

I agree with you on the new Rodgers contract. Had him under contract for 2 more years at around $23 million per, then could have franchised him for 2 more at less than we'll end up paying him. At that point, he'd hitting 39 years old. Rodgers doesn't move around nearly as well as he did just 2 years ago, and it's just going to get worse. His movement was a big part of his game. I'd trade him straight up for Trubisky right now, but the Bears would never do it.

dobber's picture

"Negative narratives piling up..."

Then start presenting us with more POSITIVE narratives... ;)

LeotisHarris's picture

I like to think we're stacking negatives.

The TKstinator's picture

Subtraction by...subtraction?

dblbogey's picture

It's all pad level, man.

The TKstinator's picture

I bow to your wisdom, sir.

EddieLeeIvory's picture

U see the innovative offenses in Kansas City, LA Rams, Chicago...... the Packers have had a WR who actually played some QB in college, in the SEC as a matter of fact. Randall Cobb can throw the all, and he's very intelligent.
How often has Old School Mike utilized that weapon? In goal-to-go situations, it could help a lot.

True, Cobb misses 30% of games due to always being hurt.

Brees #2 WR is a rookie from Central Florida. His best RB is a quick little guy who can run great routes. Very similar to Aaron Jones.

Rodgers almost refuses to throw to Jones. So many times at Seattle, Jones was wide open out of the backfield.... but #12 keeps holding it waiting for Adams to beat the double team. And by that time, the other WRs route is done & they have to improvise. Then Rodgers gets sacked even tho the OL did fine.

Rinse & repeat.

Brees, Brady, Goff, Wilson, Mahomes, Luck are all better than Rodgers this year.

Gort's picture

Great minds think alike!
I was typing as you were posting.

Barazinho's picture

Yup, he's forcing the ball into Adams, and even said as much after the LA or Miami game. How easy for is it for teams to defend Adams on a 3rd and 3 when they know the ball is going to him.

JimR_in_SoCal's picture

Rodgers needs a coach to fix him. MM and his offensive staff don’t appear to be up to the task. The front office needs to fix this. I hope they’re up to the task.

Rebecca's picture

Rodgers doesn’t appear to listen or care about coach talk.

No one can fix anyone else.
Rodgers will change if and when he wants to.

He’s working on his first $300,000,000 in total compensation over his long and illustrious Packers career. That is power.

He’s worth a hell of a lot more to this team than McCarthy.

dobber's picture

He needs a coach that can convince him (or con him) that the coach's ideas are really ARod's ideas.

The TKstinator's picture

So, the QB is the head and the HC is the neck? And the neck can turn the head any way it wants?

LeotisHarris's picture

**mind blown** Is this like the tail wagging the dog, expect on steroids with lasers?

What if the QB wants (or has) a little head?

The TKstinator's picture

Exactly, as well as nearly plagiarized from Big Fat Greek Wedding.

As for wanting vs. having, that struggle has plagued mankind since the single celled creature first emerged from the primordial ooze.

(Gotta have that ooze!)

Gort's picture

There is no guarantee of success with a new HC, but if you want a preview of what's coming under another year of MM, just look at the bottle of shampoo:
Lather, rinse, repeat.

JimR_in_SoCal's picture


A Pickled Packer's picture

It may be that Pettine was hired to replace McCarthy if this season worked. I agree that maybe it's time to get a defensive head coach. Look at Chicago this year, looks like their defense is going to win the division for them and take them into the playoffs and maybe even all the way. Defense wins championships and is the main reason we haven't returned to the SB. We need a defense, Aaron is still the man and can work these difficulties he's having this year.

As a side bar, this morning I saw a news article that made my jaw drop. Have been thinking about McCarthy going to the Browns, then I read this...George Bush is being interviewed for the HC job, I'm only half it is...

Gort's picture

2018 defense is not anywhere close to the problem that the 2012 to 2017 defenses were.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Chicago didn't hire a defensive HV they hired Nagy an OC from KC. Their defense improved dramatically because they landed Mack. The Lions brought in a DC "genius" how is their defense looking? Pettine has been great as a DC bring in an offensive minded HC who runs an offense that works in 2019.

dobber's picture

In a league tilted toward the offensive side of the ball, I would certainly think that you'd want an offensive-minded HC.

I agree, in this case: Chicago was #10 in total defense in 2017...they're #3 now. In 2017 they were #30 in total offense...they're #16 now. All the parts fit together, but I would argue that change from pathetic to average is more significant than the change from good to really good.

Matt Patricia was a flashy hire for Detroit because he comes from riding BBs coattails, but it's been shown again and again that BBs proteges can't get it done. Detroit's defense is marginally better than is was a year ago (they can rush the passer now, at least), and their offense took a major step backwards (even though they've found a run game).

jeremyjjbrown's picture

The Bears hit on their defensive draft picks as well.

LambeauPlain's picture

Pettine will NOT be the Packer new HC.

1. There is no guarantee a new HC would retain him or bring in his own guy.

2. Pettine has forcefully stated he will NEVER be an NFL HC again.

Pettine is a great coordinator who is not a good HC. Wade Phillips is another example. Bill Belichick has seen numerous coordinators go on to HC stints and fail miserably.

pacman's picture

I caught the last qtr of the Min-Chi game. Down 2 TD's and against a very strong pass rush, Cousins went with short routes and slants, got the ball out quickly and scored 2 td's in about 6 min. Even if AR isn't as elite as he was, he can certainly learn how to throw a short pass again (and not throw it into the dirt!!!). Seriously - he needs more practice on these.

I am certainly not for getting rid of Rodgers, but if they can't sit him (and MM?) down and show them those drives and make them understand what it takes to score, then it's Favre prima-dona time again and I say EXTREMELY RELUCTANTLY - trade him now, buy 2 more crushing D lineman/edge guys and find another QB. I believe team has shown enough talent to go deep into playoffs if not held back by MM/AR.

dobber's picture

"Cousins went with short routes and slants, got the ball out quickly and scored 2 td's in about 6 min. "

Isnt't that how the Packers came back to beat the Bears week 1?

Gort's picture

Yeah, and it hasn't happened nearly enough since then.
Refer to the game changing play of the week article from the Seattle game.

flackcatcher's picture

As tgr explained, the time to trade Rodgers was before he signed his new contract. The Cap hit alone would crush this team if the Packers traded Rodgers. Too late now, we're struck with him for the near future.'s picture

journalists in green bay never get the reality as it is.
ted thompson and mccarthy failed to build a competitive defense since 2011, it is 8 years in a row.
thompson roster got worse and worse especially after seattle collapse (was he already sick?).
those guys failed their strategic approach because they decided to win just with the offense, that killed them.
but mark murphy was sleeping for 8 years.
now we are late. luckily gutekunst started well with a good draft and next year we have plenty of picks and cap space. but this time packers organization can not fail any off season move.

ILPackerBacker's picture


In Green bay? Who did you have in mind? Since Curly L started bribing the press/gazette with 400 free tickets per game in return for only positive coverage there has not been a journalist in green bay althought Bob McGinn was worth discussion. Certainly the hacks at espn and packer news are worthy of scorn and the effort of repeating their prior columns to them.

Now you can read on espn that ted "MIGHT" have overstayed but until he was gone he was the best ever. Now the 1265 fingers has pointed a different way and espn leads the suck ups in a new direction.

Tom S gets to talk to Butler, how can anyone walk away from LeRoy being dumber about football then he started? Tom S an inspiration to the lazy and uninformed around the world.'s picture

to continue to point to aaron rodgers is absolutely crazy.
rodgers is playing great football considering he was injured for 7/8 games and nver practiced. and considering the horrible play calling.
and he still has great numbers on 10 games.
if you still point to deserve bortles or anything like that in green bay.

pacman's picture

Who else do you blame for him holding the ball so long, missing numerous short throws (dirt or behind) and not taking short dump offs to move the chains? You do what you need to do to win, not make amazing throws and lose.'s picture

if he has great numbers it means he makes 4 great shots and 1 bad as tom brady payton manning andrew luck. look just at the 1 he fails.
because journalists are pointing to him because it is easy....because they do not want people say the problem are mark murphy mike mccarthy.
because they protected them for 8 years! all journalists and analysts in green bay faile

pacman's picture

You didn't answer the question.

I've been on the fire MM for years. But AR is not blameless. And he is not making 80% of his throws (4 great, 1 bad). He's completing a low for his career this year. He is still good. But something is definitely off.

dobber's picture

60% is the new 80%...

Which means Drew Brees is completing 108% of his passes.

The TKstinator's picture

Pulling out that Willy Wonka math!

dobber's picture

Oompa Loompa doompadee doo,
I've got some real fuzzy math for you, too!

ILPackerBacker's picture

Blaming Rodgers has become fashionable, just as lazy reporters refuse tape or to listen because they want to 'trend' and be the first with some 'discovery'

This is the same as simple minds raving about the OL based on stats (conclusions) without examining the facts that led to the conclusions... the simple truth has been Rodgers has the best footwork in nfl history for moving himself and putting his blockers back in front of defenders who have beaten the blocker.

Yet facts are not cool and don't trend. So while Rodgers and Adams describe success against soft zone coverage, as MM did again after seattle the mindless say adams was beating single coverage and needed the ball....the look at pictures that show receivers 'open' after the ball has gone and defenders reacted to that.

If only the problem was Rodgers.

Go listen to Zook then stop wondering why game in and game out the rest of the team has to overcome the special teams under performance.

Ask why Jones can get 11 touches in the first half where we lead and it does not look like a death march and only 6 none on short yardage/conversion plays.

It is coaching. Play calling, bad packages and bad design. It is not on Rodgers for failing to have a 3rd eye .

edp1959's picture


Da Streetz's picture


The TKstinator's picture

“Takin’ it to Da Streetz”
—-Doobie Brothers

Razer's picture

My disappointment with McCarthy comes from the chronic and persistent problems with this team. Special teams has been a weakness for half a dozen years and his buddy ST coaches are still around.

Our offense has enough talent to be tops in the league but still flounders in mediocrity. We haven't been able to develop a run game since Ahman Greene. We had 3 talented RBs to start the year and the best we can do is 13 carries a game. This is a coaching/game planning issue. We have some good TEs but tight end play is marginal at best.

But the real waste is our championship QB. I don't care if he is changing the play at the LOS or not. The offensive design is not working and is a decade old. Bringing back Joe Philbin to turn back the hands of time and setting up layers of coaches has been McCarthy's answer to making this a modern offense.

Sorry but the negativity is based on the results OR the lack thereof.

dobber's picture

" The offensive design is not working and is a decade old. "

There are plenty of things that NFL teams are doing now that the Packers are not, but people regularly point to alignments and motion. #12 has always said that he doesn't like presnap do you force him to do something he doesn't like or do you take that out of the equation?

Doug Niemczynski's picture

uhhh...I thought my English was bad.

Since '61's picture

Jason I agree with your take on the Packers so far this season. The key point in your article is about the actual talent level on the Packers.

If we look objectively at the offense we have an HOF level Qb who has played below that level for much of the season. Injuries have been a factor but it appears that Rodgers play is off for other reasons, at least some of which were covered on the article.

We have one legit WR and that is Adams. Rodgers misses Cobb at least and maybe Geronimo as well. Graham is too slow and now he is out as well. The OL has Bak and Linsley but our guards are serviceable at best and allow too much inside pressure too often.

Jones and Williams are good backs but Seattle took Jones away in the second half and he wasn't able to break out once Seattle keyed on him. As for Rodgers throwing to him maybe Jones drops passes in practice or maybe Rodgers just isn't seeing him, in any case Rodgers or MM needs to answer and/or address the check downs. The bottom line is that even with Jones the Packers running game and receiving corps other than Adams doesn't scare anyone.

On defense we have Clark, Alexander and Martinez. After that our players are average at best or often injured. Daniels is a good player but like Rodgers he is having a sub-par season for him and now he's injured as well. Fackrell is playing well and maybe that will continue. Pettine has the defense playing better than Capers but they are still surrendering 24 points a game and that is too many. Many here commented during the preseason that if Pettine's defense could hold opponents to under 20 points per game the packers would win most of their games. That hasn't happened.

Special teams have been even worse than usual. Missed FGs, a blocked punt, no return game without Trevor Davis, Monty's stupid return and fumble and worst of all stupid, terrible penalties negating good returns and leaving the offense with poor field position.

Then throw in a few bad calls by the officials and here we are below .500.

The bottom line is that while Gute is moving in the right direction this team needs better players at numerous positions and better depth as well.

We can change the HC and we can blame Rodgers but the reality is the talent is just not there yet. We have at least another season, maybe 2 to get there. Until then patience. Thanks, Since '61

LambeauPlain's picture

Seattle didn't take AJ away...MM did! He ran him what, 3 times in the 2nd half?

Jones racked up 100 yards in the first half running but especially in the screen game and short passes. MM is soft and now seems to have feet of clay. He's not able to feel the game and unwilling to put his foot on the gas pedal and force Defenses to stop what is working.

He seems to think his O linemen are better at pass vs run blocking. They aren't. And the stats prove it.

When they run they move the chains and score points. Play action makes Rodgers life so much easier as the D has to respect the run and more receivers come free.

When they pass so much they too often go 3 and out and wear down their D as #12 runs around during deep developing pass plays, makes a bad throw, throws it away or gets sacked.

The O is soft, like their coach....the overpaid offensive coordinator Mike McCarthy.

croatpackfan's picture

Can you please gave us argument for your claims that Mike McCarthy, or Aaron rodgers decide not to use Aaron Jones.

Otherwise, you are just a little liar!

LeotisHarris's picture

"otherwise, you are just a little liar," he exclaimed.

Just a little liar? JUST? Oh, sweet baby Jeebus that opens the door to the lexicon of bearing false witness.

Perhaps you may want to pump the brakes a bit, and suggest your fellow fan here is a fibber. Maybe he's a simple trickster, or a con artist. He could be a misleader. If you suspect him to be a falsifier or a perjurer, you could up the ante and call him a big fat liar. It's your call, big guy.

Whichever language you choose; little liar, big fat liar or somewhere in between, be prepared to be called a big poopy butt, or sneaky little dink in return. You can't call someone just a little liar and expect to get away with it. That aggression will not stand, man!

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Do you think the lack of use is on Zook? By process of elimination, it has to be either MM or AR. Only recently has Aaron Jones gotten a lot of snaps. AR can't hand off or pass the ball to Aaron Jones if Jones is on the bench. And snaps are MM's sole decision. It may be that AR ignores Jones on passing plays or audibles out of running plays more than MM intends, but the snaps are pretty definitive: the lack of use of Aaron Jones primarily rests on MM's shoulders.

flackcatcher's picture

tgr, three factors limiting Jones use. Injuries in beginning of season, limiting practice time. Being a dope head. Dumb, stupid, enough said. Rodgers leg injury. McCarthy(as he stated in his presser) had to scrap whole sections of the playbook due to Rodgers mobility issues. My guess is a lot of that were the RPO rollout and option game using Jones and Monty. Finally, Rodgers pass first rather than handing the rock to Jones on RPO. Packers like most, is not all NFL offenses runs the run pass option in over 50% of their run plays, reducing the chances of Jones getting the ball by 30%(rough guess based on touches during games). Strictly based on game flow, I point more to Rodgers than McCarthy on Jones lack of rushing attempts. But as you point out, McCarthy is the head coach, and he should be game planning for that.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I buy a decent amount of your argument. Those things could have influenced things.

LambeauPlain's picture

Coming into their 50th game on Sunday in MN, the Packers under MM are 24-24-1.

Since the start of the 2017 season, the Packers are just 11-14-1, including an 8-8-1 mark with Rodgers under center.

The trend is not MMs friend with a future HOF QB under center. Gute is a performance and numbers guy and he sees it too.

Even if the Pack squeezes into the Playoffs, unless they get to the SB, MM is gone.

ILPackerBacker's picture

Since61 you might have overlooked that we got the ball to start the 2nd half.

Jones was not shut down, he had an 18 yard carry on called back for an inconsequential penality on ESB. This led to Jones not seeing the ball and rodgers forcing 3 throws to Adams and a punt. That was on the coaching staff and player groups, not Rodgers and not the seattle D.

Jones has 4 carries for 13 yards outside the 5 for 31 without the penalty, that is not success by the defense that is consistent with Jones all year.

Jones did not get a 3rd down carry, but Rodgers got a multitude of sacks trying to force deep passes on short yardage situations, primarily to adams against A ZONE not man to man.

don't credit seattle for taking jones away, they did not
don't pretend MM does not during his entire career take the packer RB out of games, he does

make MM accountable for the terrible set of third down calls but mostly acknowledge that running Jones probably would have changed the outcome leaving aside the fact a possible run WOULD have slowed down the seattle DL which the packer OL was not able to do.

Since '61's picture

While I agree that Jones is under utilized and I have posted that many times during this season I have yet to see a defense that adjusts to the need for stopping Jones until the 2nd half in Seattle.

In any case what we'll never know completely is if Aaron is changing run plays to pass plays at the LOS. We can claim that MM abandons the run but we don't that for sure.

Besides, Jones was not the point of my post. My point was that our level of talent throughout the 53 man roster is not as good as we hoped it would be and now we have additional issues of veterans like Rodgers, CM3, and Daniels not playing very well, young players making mistakes and taking bad penalties and some very bad officiating against us. This season is not on one player or on the coach. It is a combination of factors which is a reflection of the talent on the team and the coaching staff. Thanks, Since '61

stockholder's picture

It's on Arron Rodgers. No one else to look at, when everybody knew.( if A-Rod got hurt the Pack was done. ) To change the offense you get a new QB. NOT HAPPENING! Next Gute will tip his draft by not resigning CM3. The Burks pick is a bust. So IF Pet is staying. The packers must draft this way. 1. White- ILB. [email protected] Sweat -OLB. [email protected] Bush OLB. This must happen after loosing Mack.

Rebecca's picture

I think I know what you’re trying to say and I agree. A little punctuation and a complete thought occasionally would help the reader understand your writing.

LeotisHarris's picture

Rebecca, you should copyright these two sentences before CHTV adopts it as the tagline for this board.

Tarynfor12's picture

These articles pointing out this problem and that problem and who is more the blame than who are now meaningless.

The constant talk of the same issues that,for many more than myself, are issues that have been an issue for much longer and had been visible though unwillingly accepted.

Rodgers has gone from...My favorite receiver is the one that's favorite receiver is Adams and I need to throw to him.

The Rodgers ' trust ' factor, which was a cause for some players demise in GB, but that trust needs to be a two way street and Rodgers has shown now it's his street or no street at all.

The lack of use with Jones is, IMO, more about Rodgers and his one way street than MM's and doing what's best for the team. The ' In Rodgers We Trust ' needs to be toned down somewhat or called out as the problem.

The FO and many fans and writers have simply ignored the bad drafts, the bad signings, a FA market of top talent that has no interest in coming to GB and though the nightlife is used as excuse, the fact is most don't want their careers tossed aside via's all about Rodgers and inadequate coaching.

Unless and until a drastic change occurs, the talent and ability of the writers here will fall by the wayside as like our Packers that once had such achievable goals that are now just mediocre participation goals,

Da Streetz's picture

This aint the 80s when green bay was where your coach said i will trade you to green bay. Ppl want to come here an play. Tt wouldn't pay FA AN DRAFTED LIKE A SPECIAL EDUCATION STUDENT. NOW THE NEW GM ISN'T AFRAID TO BRING WHAT THE TEAM NEEDS IN.

LeotisHarris's picture

You raised an interesting point about the FA market, Taryn. Ron Wolf was crowned king for signing those vets who made GB a desirable place to play. Those vets in turn created a culture of winning on and off the field. We've watched that erode over the years, and we're to the point now where after seeing how vets like Sitton, Lang, Nelson, and others were treated players are more likely to leave, and others hesitant to sign. Lang played hurt, and delayed surgery to finish the season. He wanted to finish his career in Green Bay. Jordy was low-balled. Sitton cut.

I also think there's truth to the "it's all about Aaron" factor. Right now I don't see him making those around him better. He's not throwing guys open. I have no idea what the locker room climate is like, but I have to wonder if he's still the QB his teammates will truly follow. Butler said of Favre, as long as I saw Brett suiting up, I knew we had a chance to win. 12 has played hurt, no doubt. ::shrug::

Rick F's picture

I said this before MM and 12 are going to have it out one of these days. The most important player on the roster doesn’t respect the coach and the coach doesn’t take 12 to task on not taking check downs to keep drives going. They are both to blame both 12 missing throws and refusing to throw the underneath stuff or blaming it on them not being on the same page is both their faults. Bree’s threw to a rookie wide out a ton yesterday and said after the game he and Payton sit in the WRs room and explain coverages and play design and what spots to attack and when to look for the ball. Brees also said the offense runs thru what is dictated and he takes what is given. 12 won’t throw 9 3 yard throws right now. MM doesn’t say a word after wide open guys stand there and don’t get it thrown to them. Then they don’t talk after every possession and that is a problem. Seattle they both pouted and didn’t say a thing to each other. New coach and reign in 12 to be a team guy again get back to being a great team again.

buddrow53's picture

I agree, some of the play calls make me cringe, but at the end of the day a lot of receivers are open and do not get the pass. AR looks to Adams way too long.

QBs are paid to move the offense, get wrs involved spread the field and score in the red zone.

It seems there is a disconnect and it needs corrected in Minn. Sunday.

Moving the chains and scoring also helps the defense , keeps them rested and pumped especially in the 4th quarter.


packergal's picture

Note to stockholder--
• I finally get it: "is arron your tongue in cheek way of emphasizing "error-on" a/k/a AROD.

• Yes, AROD is guilty of playing poorly but as I have posted many times MM is equally culpable for reasons that many, including me, have repeated here-- ad infinitum. Finally, just curiously, in a prior post, you made an absurd argument that one should only “judge MM on home record and not on away record” (paraphrasing)? Can you shed light on this illogical argument with supportive data on game planning, play calling and etc. between the two records?

Note to Taryn—
• Good points overall on what is really plaguing the 2018 GBP: historic bad drafts, bad signings, bad coaching, inability to draw TOP FA to compete in AROD/ blind worship culture etc.
• You are correct—Muddied FO organization, poor decision making by leadership, poor coaching, and poor on-field play are all contributors to this very poor season.

UGH--from deep in BEARS worship territory.

stockholder's picture

I can tell you to click at the top of the schedule. Every Home game was a Win. Every game away was a loss. (Not counting Pre season) A-Rods the QB. He hasn't won on the road.( He's played poorly on the road.) MM has a winning record this year at Home. Nobody wants to play badly at Home!!! If you want to change this offense, you Dump A-Rod. We know that won't happen. A-Rod won't change like Brez. If they wanted to change direction of the team. MM should have been Fired! That was not the thinking and MM hired new. The person to Blame is A-Rod. The person to Fire is Murphy. Why? Murphy is afraid of the media mess. TT should not have been allowed to be retained. Gute should of had control like TT. Now that MM has hired new coaches and been working with Gute. Why Fire MM, because this team can't get it done on the road? MM is answering any questions behind closed doors. I'm against change after MM was allowed to bring in new coaching. Gute drafted two cbs. Why didn't he pertect A-Rod first? The OL was bad. Draft offense for him. And keep signing defense. If Gute is in control, he had to like MMs offensive mind. A-Rod is driving that wedge between Gute and MM. Complaining about the play -Book after a win is BS. Holding onto the ball. Fumbles. All putting pressure on the coaching, players, Gute. A-Rod is not getting it done on the road! And the feeling is different because of it.

packergal's picture


I know how to read the W/L schedule and its results.

I am asking you why you believe that:
W at home = MM great coaching
L on the road = AROD poor performance.

Just because?

Demon's picture

Ty Montgomery was canned for making a bad decision and costing the Pack an opportunity to beat the Rams.

MM made an equally bad decision by punting on 4th and 2 costing the Pack an opportunity to win in Seattle. How come he gets to keep his job?

All the MM supporters answer me this..... arent you tired of seeing the same thing? The team coming out of training camp and fall on their face. More awful special tems performances courtesy of his old pal Zook. Terrible utilization of the roster (Jones among others) awful game planning and game management.

If MM is retained, next year will be more of what we have been seeing the last 8 years. I cant be the only one here who believes the Pack has underachieved over that period.

Chuck the dope MM and lets start over!

TheBigCheeze's picture

"Or, maybe time is finally taking its toll on Rodgers."......not buying it......Brees is 39+ and playing some of his best's about coaching, or lack thereof......#HIREMIKEHOLMGREN.....NOW!!!!

Da Streetz's picture

Facts. All these ppl saying ar12 don't have it anymore. Time is catching up to him...... WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. LIKE THE MAN WHO POSTED THELIS SAID BREES IS 39. RODGERS HAS WAY MORE YEARS LEFT BEFORE TIME IS A FACTOR

Old School's picture

Has Beers had two serious injuries in the last two years??

Just because a few QBs have success at 39 doesn't mean Rodgers will.

Old School's picture

Has Brees had two serious injuries in the last two years??

Just because a few QBs have success at 39 doesn't mean Rodgers will.

Johnblood27's picture

looking below the surface another level, I see Frank Cigneti.

another qb coach that leaves zero positive impact on the QB performance.

MM is the HEAD coach, not the qb coach.

If AR seems disinterested and pouty, look no further than yet another MM cronies on the coaching payroll.

Think back to Favre and Holmgren. MH made the decisions, yes, but the b and oc had a lot of influence getting Favre to understand what was expected of him.

lots of great coaches took on that task. AR got retread cronies. He doesn't respect them and rightfully so.

AR needs an entire new coaching circle around him.
QB coach

Old School's picture

Fackrell is better than a lot of people thought. He's a tall dude who moves well and stays healthy.

The Aaron Rodgers who finished the 2016 season is now 35 and has had two significant injuries. He's still a very good QB, but he's not a Pro Bowler this year.

The list of QBs who have won a SuperBowl at his age is pretty short. IMO, the percentage move is to trade Rodgers.

JimR_in_SoCal's picture

QUOTE by Old School: “IMO, the percentage move is to trade Rodgers.”

Really, regardless of the cap consequences? The Packers can win it all without Rodgers playing at a Pro Bowl level. It just takes great coaching and above average roster talent. And a bit of luck, such as few key player injuries.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Defense - I do think Mike Petine has done a good job. On a scale of 1-10. I give him a 7.
If we had 1 pure pass rusher DE/LB and more help at DT. I think I would give him an 8+.

Special Team- I give a 6. This was supposed to be a 10 with Trevor Davis a top 10 punt returner. Mason Crosby Veteran Kicker and new JK Scott who was booting the ball 50+ yards with great hang time. What the heck happened?

Offense I give a 6.5. Solid TEs that were never used properly. Rodgers just not up to par. Took too long to use A.Jones. Play calling could have better. Cobb to fragile.
Can't believe G.Allison got hurt. Both probably won't be on team. Either will Hendricks. Would have liked to see J. Kumerow play. Need another 3rd back.

Don't feel like Ty Montgomery was used properly at all. But, still needed a lot of work picking up the blitz. Anyways, he's gone.

Head Coaching - Give MM a 4.

GM - Gute - I honestly dont know. But he is better than Thompson. I will give him 7.5 for right now as this whole team had me dumb founded.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Let's see:
Brett Favre threw for the most yards, had a lot of interceptions and forced throws, found anyone who could get open and tough as nails and pretty good passer rating. 2 Super Bowl Appearances. One Super Bowl win. Hall of Famer.. 3x Consecutive MVP.

Aaron Rodgers - Will throw for a ton of yards. Least amount of interceptions. Diva player, butt still tough. Hall of Famer.
Highest passer rating for QB also MVP.

One Super Bowl appearance. One Super Bowl Victory.

So, we have the best of both worlds no matter which one you pick and yet results are the same. Lack of SuperBowl wins.

2 since 1992.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Maybe its that new girlfriend if Rodgers.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Momentum is huge and when Rodgers has thrown the ball around 40x out of bounds this season thus far that kills you!! I mean they all line up ...their blocking. ..running....moving around. .scrambling...wasting tons of energy and lost time on the clock and what do we do? Well, let's throw the ball out of bounds.

If Rodgers does not throw the ball out of bounds those 40x well maybe we are then at the top of the division 7-3.

Something STINKS on offense.

Lare's picture

Lots of fans with lots of opinions of what's to blame for the Packers losing season. Let's look at the stats.

The Packers have the 8th ranked offense in the NFL with the 5th ranked QB. The Packers also have the 12th ranked defense in the NFL. Not anything here that should be leading to a losing record.

Then, the Packers have the 25th ranked special teams and the 24th ranked field goal kicker. Ding, ding, ding!!!! we have a winner.

Rick F's picture

Stats are on thing. Lets talk about Seattle quick it is all about in game adjustments. 2nd half 6 carries for Jones that is a mistake. Why the packers have the lead and were not able to keep the clock running. 3 rd down was a mess and don’t take the easy throws. MM doesn’t coach up 12 and tell him to keep drives alive and take a check down. Seattle rushes 4 lineman the whole 2nd half and we don’t change it to 2 tight ends and build a 7 man line to run the football or max protect and take shots to 17 down the field. 5:03 - 4:20 was the amount of time the last drive and was in hurry up mode and all they need is a first down. They are in great shape but the Qb forces a ball and a bad throw on 3rd, MM knows the defense is beat to hell and has played almost twice the snaps the offense has and tells the media the numbers said to punt. If 12 is so great why the hell isn’t he getting a chance with that situation you are aware of.This relationship is past the point of no return. MM has protected 12 and he still takes jabs at MM and he doesn’t set 12 in his place. Everyone needs coaching. If you are all in on winning, everyone does what is needed.

Lare's picture

Yada, yada, yada. Crosby makes a field goal and it's a whole new game.

Special teams- missed kicks, dumb penalties, turnovers, squib punts, missed blocks every single game.

Let Aaron and Mike bicker and have their little mistakes. Give the Packers an above average special teams and they're 7-3 right now.

Rick F's picture

7-3 with a better special teams. That is funny with this under preforming offense. You know that they aren’t that good and to say that is not rational. Thanks for the good laugh.

Gort's picture

Watching Rams and Chiefs on MNF. Both teams aggressively attack the defense. They rarely let the playclock get below 5 and often snap with 10 or more remaining. They don't wait for the defense to rest or get set. If they audible to different play, it seems to happen quickly. The pace is just way different than GB's offense. Looks like a diffrent game.

bodei1newbie1's picture

well i have to say one thing aaron get your head out of your butt and play ball so you don't have jordy and your old qb coach so what it's time to move on why don't you take the younger receivers a side and help them out instead of whining about it to me your no goat until you can fix things

The TKstinator's picture

The old “one sentence rule” rears its head again!

Gort's picture

No capital at the beginning and no period at the end. Not a real sentence, but it is a lot of words and most of them are spelled write.

Chuck Farley's picture

Maybe a do over is needed for this team. Time to rebuild if it were and analyse who to get rid of and who not to.
I know they are worried a rebuild may destroy the last years of Rodgers but this team is short of a dumpster fire and needs not just fresh blood but some low first round picks and second round picks with talent.

We can all name a lot of players the team could lose and not miss a beat. Time the org does too.

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"The Bears still suck!"
"I firmly believe that any man’s finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle – victorious."
"A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall. "