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Marcedes Lewis opens up on disconnect between Aaron Rodgers, Mike McCarthy

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Marcedes Lewis opens up on disconnect between Aaron Rodgers, Mike McCarthy

-- 2018 just so happened to mark the tipping point in a long-running relationship that has seen its fair share of well-documented feuds.

It's unclear where that tipping point came for Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers and his former head coach of 13 seasons, Mike McCarthy. It has, however, become evident over the years that Rodgers had no problem taking subtle jabs at McCarthy during his press conferences that have only helped further drive home the notion that the two butted heads more than they got along.

Any relationship will come with disagreements, and according to Rodgers, it's the natural way of things -- and he's right. But for a tandem who has reached the pinnacle of the football world and yet to repeat their success in eight years, are those disagreements really worth it?

Some of the tension between the two spilled out in the form of blatant insubordination last season, according to veteran tight end Marcedes Lewis.

"All of that stuff that happened towards the end in Green Bay all came from the top," Lewis said on Yahoo Sports' "Mostly Football" show on Thursday. I felt like Aaron had his own set of things that he wanted to do, and obviously, McCarthy had his things that he wanted to do.

"I think there was a little dysfunction."

Lewis' 13th NFL season and first in Green Bay was underwhelming, and that's putting it lightly. He was targeted just four times, catching three passes for 39 yards and was almost rarely utilized as an asset in formulating blocking assignments, which was a strength of his during his 12 seasons with the Jacksonville Jaguars.

He was one of the several free agents signed by the Packers this past offseason and is set to be a free agent in the spring.

A "little dysfunction" isn't much of a meaningful keyword considering McCarthy was relieved of his duties as head coach on Dec. 2. It's fair to say Lewis was downplaying much of the commotion in that department.

One instance, in particular, was something that Lewis had never seen in his vast playing career.

"One time I really saw it for the first time, we were in the huddle, and I guess McCarthy called in a play. Aaron was like, 'Nah," Lewis said. Lewis recounted Rodgers' immediate dismissal of McCarthy's play selection, brief protection adjustments and then a 40-yard completion, leaving the 34-year-old tight end stunned.

"I'm like, 'What's really going on here?'"

Of every throw from Rodgers that went over 40 yards in 2018, Lewis was only on the field for three of them. Of those three, a 3rd-and-9 completion to Davante Adams was the only play in which Rodgers seemed to scramble before the snap to make any last-minute adjustments, as Lewis referenced.

Rodgers' brilliance and otherworldly expertise in playing his position not only helps make the Packers' coaching job an attractive one, but it further reinforces the concept of getting the new coach to mesh with his quarterback.

Rodgers may want to do one thing on the field that goes against his coach's wishes. It's up to the newest duo -- whoever the other half may be -- to meet at a crossroads and draw a line at a point where both parties will be satisfied. That was seemingly something Rodgers and McCarthy failed to do over the latter stretch of his tenure with the team.

The Packers will fly to New England on Friday to meet with offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels and linebackers coach Brian Flores. They'll be in New Orleans on Saturday to speak with tight ends coach Dan Campbell and offensive coordinator Pete Carmichael Jr., and Tennesee on Sunday to meet with Titans offensive coordinator Matt LaFleur.


Zachary Jacobson is a staff writer/reporter for Cheesehead TV. He's the voice of The Leap on iTunes and can be heard on The Scoop KLGR 1490 AM every Saturday morning. He's also a contributor on the Pack-A-Day Podcast. He can be found on Twitter via @ZachAJacobson or contacted through email at [email protected].

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (185) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

HankScorpio's picture

That is not a pawsitive development. Many of us knew that the relationship between MM & Rodgers had broken down. It's not hard to draw that conclusion after the 2018 season.

And many of us are fearful of the warning signs that Rodgers is becoming a Favre-like diva. This seems to provide some more evidence pointing in that direction.

I go back to around 2003-04 (ish). I recall an article in the J/S talking about Tom Rossley, who was the OC at the time. He made a film cut-up of Favre's picks to show that most came when he went over the middle deep into a play. The obvious point was to stop going over the middle in scramble mode. Favre allegedly watched the film and quipped something like wondering when they would watch film of all his TDs. That was the first moment when I knew there was real trouble with him. This article reminds me of that one.

cuervo's picture

Agree about the Diva comment. Unfortunately we are experiencing groundhog day with another talented QB in GB that seems to think they are bigger than the team. Unfortunate to see Rodgers turn into an unlikeable diva as Farve did.
Regardless of who the new coach is, if this continues in any form next year, the Packers should jettison Rodgers and start over.

mnklitzke's picture

Problem is there are people (my wife and mother in law) who feel ol Brent did nothing wrong and he was simply the best ever. That people need to gravel at his feet because he brought the Packers back to greatness. I remind them that Brent was a bigger diva then Rodgers (for now seeing Brent had his own locker room) that it wasn't just Brent that brought the packers back to glory. Never forget that we had one of the greatest of all time at DE with Reggie White leading the defense.

cuervo's picture

You're speaking to the choir........ Farve turned into a total ass, and Rodgers is looking like he learned how from 'ole #4.

kevgk's picture

Holy crap! Farve?!?! Brent?!? on a packers forum? who are you people????

The TKstinator's picture

The first is probably an honest mistake, the second is likely an intentional toss of shade.

Vrog's picture

Surely you remember the "We'll Never Forget You Brent" placard?

The TKstinator's picture

I do, but I don’t think kev does.

Community Guy's picture

the timing of this story is impeccable as the Packers' management is about to meet with a bevy of coaching candidates.

i am only partly joking when i ask: "can the Packers just let Aaron be the offensive coordinator?"

Rebecca's picture

"Bevy" reporting in. Do we or can we have a "plethora"?

The TKstinator's picture

Again, I regret I only have one “like” to give!

John Kirk's picture

Cornucopia of coaching candidates.

Handsback's picture

If MM called for a long drive it was to chew up the clock and give the defense a rest. The coach is the conductor trying to play a magnificent symphony, which is to win the game. The QB is an instrument. An instrument can never be the conductor because the outcome will be pretty pathetic and will look like the Packer's season.
Now a solution, which I have wondered about for some time, is to have Rodgers call the plays like the QBs did in the 60s-70s. It would add a different dimension to the offense....speed and make him responsible for bonehead plays. This would never work league wide, except for a few very bright QBs like Rodgers, Brady, Brees, and Rivers.

So in lieu of the above mentioned scenario; the new HC will have to use a very firm hand on him, or give him freewill to change plays and make something happen. The second option is what I imagine has happened at Pittsburg with Roethlisberger.

Minniman's picture

The investment in Rodgers (time and money) suggest that while left field, this idea has some merit.

It's often been lamented why the Rodgers-led Packers can play a 2-minute drill so well, but struggle to move the chains during the long stretches of the game.

There's probably room to give Rodgers free reign in stretches of a game, but I'd need more convincing that he could call plays for the whole game (*being polite here*), especially for 16 (or 19-20) weeks, without the added attention to game planning affecting other parts of his game (like throwing mechanics etc).

Community Guy's picture

i appreciate your response. i still think i was mostly joking; however, the part about the Packers' so invested in Rodgers means that he has a lot of power within the organization. trying a heavy hand approach to working with Rodgers could really backfire.. especially given that Rodgers is self-aware of how smart he is.

presumably, the Packers will have a new HC and OC this year. the power dynamics between the new play caller and Rodgers is likely going to have to be something of an artistic dance. there is going to have to be real mutual respect. perhaps the unique partnership which has already formed between Mark Murphy and Brian Gutekunst can be something of a model for QB1 and the new coach?

Bearmeat's picture

Wanna see Reason 1A GB sucked this year? Right here.

Is ARod QB1 or DBag1? Cause if I had a Teaching Assistant who pulled this garbage, he'd have a 1-way ticket to dropping out ASAP. I don't care how good he is. If you can't be a team player and listen to authority, you can't be effective and efficient. And I know that because at times I'm tempted to usurp my boss' authority when he makes silly decisions too. You. Just. Can't. Do. That. No one wins.

If ARod wants to be his own OC, then he needs to retire and do that. Coaches coach. Players play. Do. Your. Own. Dang. Job.

This is NOT good for the coaching search. Although it's quite likely that all NFL insiders knew this shit was already happening.


dobber's picture

"This is NOT good for the coaching search. Although it's quite likely that all NFL insiders knew this shit was already happening."

Yeah, these guys talk to each other, both on and off the record. I don't think there are many surprises in the coaching community regarding this kind of behavior by high-profile players in the league.

egbertsouse's picture

Yeah, and if the university just gave your TA $100 mil guaranteed, I’ll give you 3 guesses on who’d be out the door first. And the first 2 don’t count.

Minniman's picture

Yes, linking in Bearmeat's comment above, you can't make someone the highest paid player of all time at the most critical position on the team, and not be (verbally or non-verbally) saying "we trust you implicitly".... although I'm not going to diminish Bear's point that it's a team sport (insert cliche here).

In light of Marcedes Lewis' comments, perhaps reigning Rodgers back in is the most important KPI for the new HC - and to that end why McDaniels makes sense (not sure, just throwing it out there).

Bearmeat's picture

First of all, my university doesn't have the cash to hand out 100m. lol. And second, if they did, it would be to some assistant vice provost of diversity or something like that. Not a Teaching Assistant/Grunt. LOL.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

And here I thought you were going to write that $100M is like loose change in your pocket to you.

Gort's picture

Chief of the PC Police (and I don't mean personal computer) maybe.

Packers0808's picture

It seems as if the wrong guy was given the one way ticket out the door! Rodgers has been a problem for quite a while it appears!

Bearmeat's picture

No. If they wanted to dump ARod, they needed to trade him before 2017 for the 3 CLE 1st round picks... that would have been ballsy as hell... but it was the only reasonable return from shipping him they could have ever gotten.

Think of this - how good would P. Mahomes, M. Garrett and Chubb look in green and gold right now? And what would be our future for the next 5 years vs. just having Mr. Diva? What shape would our salary cap be in? Just sayin.

dobber's picture

I find myself asking why Cleveland (or as others now view the Raiders' draft capital) would do this? Trade for a high-profile guy, feed him a chunk of your cap (he wasn't signed yet), but deal away your ability to put cheap, impact players around him. OTOH, they had a lot of cap space, so maybe they would be able to buy the roster he needed to be successful.

Bearmeat's picture

Because ARod had just "run the table." His value had never been higher and he was a "sure thing." Unlike any draft pick. Plus the $$$ that ARod would have e made a team like CLE in Jersey sales, tickets, commercials etc.... Haslam would have made it happen if GB would have been selling. I'm sure.

Of course there is a great deal of post-dicting in my point above too. It would not have been CLE that was excoriated for making a deal like this, it would have been GB - especially if they had missed on one of the players.

Minniman's picture

It's funny, I remember a funny quote in the lead up to the 2017 draft - with the Johnny Manziel flame-out still fresh - "don't unnecessarily over-complicate this Cleveland, just pick Garrett and be done with it"

Old School's picture

If your point is that Aaron Rodgers value to the organization was at its highest at the end of 2016, I agree.

There were some brave souls who pointed that out and got hated on.

But the extension, to me, is a clear sign that Gutekunst wants to win with Rodgers. If he's successful, he can engineer the post-Rodgers transition. If he's not, there'll be a new GM doing the transitioning.

And winning next year, with Rodgers (no, I don't think we're going to miss the playoffs 3 straight years) had to include resolving the McCarthy/Rodgers relationship. Resolved.

Now, if only there were a person available who got along with Rodgers, who had already been an HC, who was familiar to Gutekunst and Murphy, and who had lots of offensive cred? And maybe another guy to run the defense?

No, that would have been too much planning.

rstain99's picture

Sorry but TT would have drafted some constantly injured long CB from the PAC 10 instead of stud D lineman or LB who could play both rusher or coverage LB. Sorry off injured Nick Perry aint the answer. GB still has 3-4 yr window with AR to make things happen hoping here they get right guy AR is
also to blame on this problem he has to believe in the coach and lead this group will be shame if never get back to SB. All they need is top 10 defense and ball control on offense they are doing it in Indy, Houston, Baltimore this is a proven philosophy.

Jonathan Spader's picture

"Think of this - how good would P. Mahomes, M. Garrett and Chubb look in green and gold right now?"

Sounds like you would have liked for Dorsey to be the Packers GM Bearmeat. I know I wanted that even though I've been happy with Gute. Wonder if KC is kicking themselves now for firing him unceremoniously in June.

Bearmeat's picture

No they're not. Reid made a power grab and said "Dorsey or me" and Hunt fired Dorsey. KC is better right now than they've been in 25 years. They'll choke in January - Reid always does. But right now, they're happy.

John Kirk's picture

Who on this forum said we should do just that? I did. The downvotes came out en masse. I was a huge proponent of dealing him to CLE.

I was so against the extension it was unreal.

You can ignore me again, but I'm telling you this team is headed toward being the Browns and the Browns the Packers. We had a chance to reverse that a little bit with the trade but we didn't.

dobber's picture

There were several people who did, but why would Cleveland do it?

They had a plan: intentionally built up significant draft capital and cap space. Why would they deviate from that plan to get a 3-4 season rental in #12, when they could potentially have 6-8 years of success?

The idea was intriguing, yes. But it was more thought experiment than anything else. Cleveland had to want to do it, too, and it's hard to imagine why they would.

John Kirk's picture

Yes, others championed it. There were also others who were adamantly opposed to the extension. I was right there front and center in both camps.

Why would Cleveland do it? How many quarterbacks have the Browns been through since they came back to Cleveland? Isn't it 40 something?

What would make them think they'd get it right this time after all the past failures. Instead of gambling on the draft they had a sure fire first ballot Hall of Famer instead.

Wasn't a thought experiment to me. I really wanted to do it. Desperately. I couldn't stand Rodgers. He's not likable whatsoever.

The only reason now in retrospect why Cleveland wouldn't do it, is because he wouldn't listen to coaching, but who should've been listening to Hue?

This should've happened in hindsight. The extension shouldn't have been given in hindsight, either. You have people on here who say these things and they just get hammered for saying them but they're the ones with vision who see beyond what's fed to them by the media.

If you can't see it now how dire this situation is in this organization you will never see it. I hope you like losing seasons because that's what's on the docket.

Until Murphy and Brian go, it won't get better short of a hail mary of a head coach hire.

Minniman's picture

A good point Dobber.

I'd have thought that a team like Jacksonville would be the more likely to do a trade like that for the primary piece that they are missing.

I personally don't see Rodgers going anywhere until there's at least a viable replacement on the roster. Ditching Hundley and trading a former first round pick for Kizer seems to indicate that GB are getting more and more aggressive in that draft and develop a QB mindset - and while he possibly\probably isn't the long term answer, the increasing focus seems to be there (bit of a shame about Taysom Hill)

Oppy's picture

With Elliot Wolf, Alonzo Highsmith both entrenched in Cleveland, my guess is that they already knew the dirty laundry that comes with Rodgers and may not have had any intention of dealing away picks for a guy with limited mileage left and a ton of baggage.

John Kirk's picture

Very well could be. I'd love to know if we ever even had talks regarding Rodgers since we were already talking about Damarious and Kizer.

If this is correct, then our organization looks even stupider for hitching their wagon to a man with so much baggage. Why the extension? Why?

Man, these are the darkest times since the early 90's and I honestly feel it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Rak47's picture

Well if Mahomes keeps playing this well just think 3 years down the road when he signs the first 40+ million a year contract, ouch! Chiefs are going to have to let some players walk out the door that should probably be retained.

Irish_Cheesehead's picture

OK, so how the heck does Packers0808's comment have 2.5 likes and 1.5 dislikes? Can you give 1/2 a like??? If so, can I give 1/2 like for the old Rodgers and 1/2 dislike for the current Rodgers? :)

Packers0808's picture

Irish I'm smiling here wondering the same thing? I must be special! Hahaha!

Skip greenBayless's picture

Agree Packers0808. I wanted to desperately trade Rodgers for maximum picks to some sucker team. Oakland made a sucker deal with Carson Palmer a few years ago so it's logical to assume they could do it again with Rodgers. They were our only shot with huge draft capital but we blew it with the contract extension. Dorsey and Wolf are too smart to bring him to Cleveland. They both will have a great legacy by building a team the hard and honest way mostly thru the draft and smart decision making. Oakland was our one and only shot to help sustain winning in Green Bay for the next decade. Now we are potentially screwed depending on the decisions made in the next few months. Nobody will trade for this guy and we are stuck with Diva Las Rodgers running this team. The Lewis interview is also very untimely for the Packers. Will this info influence a Josh McDaniels or any other coach from taking the job? I don't know how it helps.


PatrickGB's picture

Well maybe that call sucked. And if it did then Rodgers was correct in calling a different one. If not then the next coach simply has to call plays to Rodgers strength or have some more plays in line with what Aaron can play with.
It all sounds overblown to me.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Or maybe Rodgers should be benched for overriding the coach until he learns to be a team player and not try to take on everything himself. Do you really think MM didn't call more run plays that Rodgers checked out of?

Years ago I saw a cat take a running leap at a staircase and it got about halfway up the side of the wall and hung their claws embedded in the wall. I asked my Mom "What the hell was that?" She responded "the cat doesn't know it's fat". I don't think Rodgers has accepted the fact that he's been beat to hell and as phenomenal as he is he's lost some of his amazing arm strength.

He tries to do too much which resulted in a record amount of throw aways. Rodgers needs to swallow his pride and allow a HC like McDaniels to make the game easier for him and play to his strengths. MM wasn't getting it done and Philbin wasn't the solution.

Rak47's picture

I wonder about that JS after reading what Lewis had to say. My question is, if McCarthy couldn't command his respect then who can? And is it reasonable to expect someone to come in and bring Rodgers under thumb? I posted some weeks ago I thought DeFilippo would be the Packers choice if they wanted an offensive minded coach. And if they go offensive minded I still think they may go his way. But I'm starting to lean in the direction of a defensive minded coach as a possibility. Someone like Pettine who will oversee the team as a whole while help strengthening the defense, and can also bring in a creative OC with little or no ego to clash with Rodgers. An OC who can sit down with Rodgers and intellectually earn his respect while crafting a game plan that Rodgers can execute on the field while calling his own plays at the line. That might be exactly what's needed to keep Rodgers happy and playing well while also keeping up with team needs overall. So far I believe Pettine is the only defensive coach to be interviewed to this point, so if they go defense there's a good chance we already have our HC in house.

Jonathan Spader's picture

If they go defensive HC they could do a lot worse than Pettine but then who is your DC? Pettine? Someone else? Who comes in to be OC? Are they a puppet for Rodgers who controls the offense like Since 61' suggests? The reason I want McDaniels as the HC isn't because I think he's a great guy. I think he's a better OC than HC and I'm hoping I'm wrong. MM was ungodly stubborn and you could see the frustration on Rodgers face.

Al posted a video of how hard the offense was to execute under MM. I feel like Josh can simplify things for Rodgers and help him utilize Jones, Adams, & company. He's done a lot more with less. I don't think Josh would ever leave NE for less than a HC job why the hell would he? Kraft can pay him more than the Packers ever could. In 2018 I hoped Philbin was the answer he showed me he's still a great guy but no longer an elite OC.

If Pettine is your HC how do you entice an elite OC to come to GB or do you cave and make Rodgers your OC/QB?

4zone's picture

I am beginning to think it is time to draft our next QB. AR is becoming unstable and a new coach will probably exacerbate the problem sooner or later. I think a genuine option at backup, obviously being groomed for the future, will give AR notice that no other message can. He is here to play FOR Green Bay, not coach them. A new HC will probably change our offense substantially which will set AR back as far as scheme knowledge is concerned. Hopefully, this makes him less apt to 'override' his HC's/OC's play calling decisions

Jonathan Spader's picture

Would you take Lock at #12 if he's on the board? I wonder what a new HC/OC can do with Kizer. The kid has a fantastic arm and makes poor decisions. I want to see what we have in Boyle against more than 4th stringers in preseason. Callahan is now a Buc.

Packerpasty's picture

there are many guys with fantastic arms who never will be a quality QB;,not even a good back up...Kizer is one of those...hang your hat on him and you'll be looking at a few wins a year at most...fantastic arm..."Uncle Rico"...

Jonathan Spader's picture

Based off of what pastry? His performance in Cleaveland when he was 19? His preseason performance in GB? Him stepping in for Rodgers in the Chi game? So far what we've seen from Kizer has been flashes of arm talent along with poor decision making. The NFL is played at a different speed.

I feel that Kizer has the athletic attributes to be an NFL QB. I don't think he's anywhere near his ceiling and Rodgers took a long time to get where he's at. Kizer is in a fantastic spot he gets to sit being one of the best QBs ever. It's too soon to give up on the kid. I don't think he'll succeed Rodgers but he could be developed for a trade if coaches properly.

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

Completely agree with you! Kizer just turned 22 years of age. Even now he is about 2 years younger than the average age of incoming NFL rookies. I believe we wont know how good Kizer can become for another 4 years when he is around 26. Kizer most likely will be in the league for over 10 years.

Oppy's picture

Kizer has always been a guy who makes some nice throws that show that NFL type arm, but he turns around and makes ridiculously poor choices that result in picks.

Pick Machine in college due to horrendous judgement.
Have seen the same from his career so far.

Kizer is the epitome of a coach killer. Shows just enough to entice you into believing the potential, but he breaks your back with the mental laspes and poor throws that kill drives and lose games.

John Kirk's picture

Sounds like you're describing Brett Favre...

Favre thew 16 picks in his final two seasons (22 games) and 34 picks in 44 career games...or an average of .77 per game.

Kizer threw 19 picks in 25 games or .76 per game.

When it came to TD passes, Kizer threw 47 in 25 games and Brett 52 in 44 games.

147.7 to 116.6 passer rating.

Of course, Favre was at Southern Miss and Kizer at ND, but I can see why they'd want to give him time to develop.

I think he can be QB1 in time. Not dogmatic about that but think the tools are definitely there. Not sure the head is...yet.

Skip greenBayless's picture

" I want to see what we have in Boyle against more than 4th stringers in preseason."

Most here (except for a few "haters") wanted to see Boyle get some quality reps. This is only a guess but I think Rodgers really really fears Tim Boyle more than Kizer. He made the call to play those last two meaningless games to prevent Boyle from ever seeing the field. He probably knew once people saw Boyle play and dominate just as he did in the preseason that people would probably feel much better about the future at the qb position. Rodgers doesn't want that. He's all about himself and protecting his turf as long as possible. Favre did the same thing with Rodgers doing everything he could to never sit out a game. As long as Rodgers is here, Boyle will never see the field of play. He fears Boyle and frankly I don't blame him.

John Kirk's picture

Aaron Rodgers feared Boyle getting on the field? That is one I've not heard.

Kizer was the one who would get on the field not Boyle. You're not resting your QB1 and trotting out QB3...QB2 goes next.

NitschkeFan's picture

With the new contract people should get used to the fact that AR will be the Packers QB for many more years. His contract is "untradeable" unless he plays like an MVP, in which case you wouldn't want to trade him.

Too many silly posts with hypothetical trades that no other team is going to make at this point in time. Maybe before that contract, not anymore.

Mojo's picture

Nitschke you hit the nail on the head. Rodgers is going to be a Packer for the duration of his contract, unless he forces a trade or hangs em up. Consider the evidence - the Packer brass recently made him the highest paid player in the history of the league and fired the HC in part because it was obvious they weren't working very well together anymore.

The Packers organization relishes having one of the most recognizable athletes on the planet, if not just for marketing purposes alone. Earlier this season the GOAT conversation was splashed all over the Pack - Patriots matchup. The organization WANTS Rodgers on the team.

So fans should get used to the idea and the Pack should try to improve the team any way possible with the thought in mind of making ARod play better. I appreciate Rodgers talent, but I'm far from a sycophant.

There's a lot to consider in the criticism of Rodgers recent play. I have a hunch some of what he did this year was in hopes of getting his coach fired. Strangely, since MM was fired, he appears more open to questioning, talkative and upbeat. I was half expecting him to do cartwheels in the locker room. But that's another story.

I support the G on the helmet, not just any one player, coach or front-office type. Felt that way through the Favre era and feel the same way now.

ARods not going anywhere, so Pack must try their best to make it work and bring back the Lombardi. That's the reality of the situation.

lecko's picture

Sory but you are WAAAY overreacting how much NFL athletes are recognizable outside US. Ask a random person on a street in Beijig, Tokio, London, Berlin and show them pictures of Messi , Ronaldo, Lebron and Rodgers. I bet Rodgers does get very little percentage of recognition, while Ronaldo and Messi are good bet.

pacman's picture

Bad example when the Rodger's play works. And this is just one example. Without knowing the whole of the story, we cannot judge between AR and MM. How many times have we seen stupid play calling in the last couple years? Odds are, those run plays like Jones in the end zone came from MM and Rodgers just sometimes feels like he has to take control. Hey, that's leadership - right? Go beat the Jets (barely and needlessly) and risk GB's $100M investment!?

If this was going on a long time, then it goes back to management for not fixing earlier. MM is out either for bad play calling / game management or not being able to control AR (and not firing Capers and Zook!).

So it is all a mess in GB. No wonder the season was a disaster.

egbertsouse's picture

They are committed to AR, they have dumped too much money into him at this point. I thought they should have waited until after the season but the toothpaste is out of the tube at this point.

egbertsouse's picture

Ignore the last “at this point.” Thanks.

Gort's picture

You can edit your own comments.

packergal's picture

"...Cause if I had a Teaching Assistant who pulled this garbage, he'd have a 1-way ticket to dropping out ASAP. I don't care how good he is..."

So... before they signed AROD to his giant contract, did Gute Murphy know about this issue and choose to move forward anyway and disregard its impact on team culture?

Or...did they recognize the MM/AROD disfunction and opt for plan B--to move on from MM and select a HC that will command greater respect from AROD?

Few fans believed Greg Jennings. Even fewer fans believed Winston Moss. And now Mercedes Lewis, who has literally no dog in this hunt, is likely quite believable.

So...does this alter any reader's opinion about which HC candidate will be selected to change the culture and AROD play?

Jonathan Spader's picture

I think part of it is the source packergal. Both Jennings and Moss come across as pricks. Makes it hard for fans to listen to what they say. Mercedes Lewis seems to have 0 skin in the game and seems like a nice guy. You're also now hearing yet another player say the same thing. If you hear something once it's an opinion, twice pay attention, three or more times there's probably some truth there.

As for which HC I would like to see in GB it just confirms for me that it's McDaniels job to lose. Really creative playcaller and was able to handle Brady's ego. Sure he struggled as a HC/GM in Denver 9 years ago. But he wouldn't be the GM in GB and hopefully he's matured in 9 years I know I have. As for the Colts incident if he hadn't pulled that stunt GB never would have had a shot at him in 2019.

Old School's picture

A good question about Gute/Murphy knowing about the dysfunctional relationship.

Gute gets hired. Two experienced HCs are brought on board. Rodgers is given a big contract extension. What do you think the plan is? Or are you one of the people here who don't think there is a plan?

I think the plan is to ride Rodgers for another couple of seasons, and that Philbin and Pettine will be part of that ride.

Since '61's picture

If the new HC wants to keep them. Many candidates will want to hire their own coordinators. If they find out that they can't during the interview process they may walk away. Thanks, Since '61

fthisJack's picture

Murphy should have canned MM after last year, hired a new coach and let him pick his staff. the piecemeal approach was a bad idea. now, I would expect the new head coach to add his own assistants. I think any candidate has to be given that option or he will go somewhere else or stay put until something better comes along.

Skip greenBayless's picture

" Even fewer fans believed Winston Moss"

I was the ONLY one here who stood by Winston Moss and his brave and courageous comments. Yeah, I took the hits but what's new. I did so not because I'm a tiny part African American but because I loved his honesty. He put attention to a major problem and knew it would cost him his job. This wasn't Jim Jones telling everyone else to drink the kool-aid. Winston Moss made a tweet than took a drink knowing his fate was sealed. He's not looking that crazy now is he.

Lare's picture

So you're applauding Moss for criticizing the fans? That is what he said he was doing in an interview later that week-

"The tweet was directed at the Green Bay fans," Moss said Sunday on Fox's NFL pregame show. "It was not directed at anybody within the Packer organization, coach [Mike] McCarthy, Joe Philbin, Aaron Rodgers. The Packer Nation has a high standard. We developed and created a high standard, and this season has been somewhat disappointing. So I tried to give direction, I tried to give purpose and I tried to enlighten to say the least and give my opinion. So much for how that worked out."

Skip greenBayless's picture

I love how you put your own words into this. You said "so you're applauding Moss for CRITICIZING the fans. I don't see anywhere in there where he said he was "criticizing" the fans. He simply was saying he was informing the fans at who was actually coaching the team and that was Aaron Rodgers. How is telling the truth and informing people like you Lare criticizing you the fan? He's a hero and should get an award for his bravery and honesty. Instead he was fired. Quit trying to spin this Lare.

Lare's picture

"He simply was saying he was informing the fans at who was actually coaching the team and that was Aaron Rodgers."

Where did he say that?

His tweet was "Ponder this... what Championship teams have are great leadership! Period! It’s not the offensive guru trend, it’s not the safe trend. Find somebody that is going to hold #12 and everybody in this building to a #LombardiStandard! Period!

What is he trying to "enlighten" fans of?

Skip greenBayless's picture

Lare, look it up. Why should I do your homework? Get it done!!

John Kirk's picture


Just go to YouTube and add this...


He will then reiterate he was "joking"and letting off steam.

He'll talk about his tweet on holding Rodgers accountable.

Also, claims no rift with MM and AR. Clearly, the guy knows he ain't getting another job after his meltdown. So, now he tries minimizing all sorts of things.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Moss' explanation was simply absurd. No one could parse his tweet to mean what Moss said it meant.

Lare's picture

That was pretty much my point.

Oppy's picture

I don't know what anyone else is saying he meant, but to me, it's clear:

"The next coach you bring in doesn't have to be an offensive guru, or a status quo coach.. Someone has to come in here and hold this runaway diva accountable."

Lare's picture

But isn't that more of a criticism of McCarthy than it was of Rodgers?

Oppy's picture

You can look at it that way if you wanted to somehow absolve Rodgers of any accountability for his own actions and demeanor, however I don't think it's quite that cut and dry.

Skip greenBayless's picture

It's not the truth if Lare refuses to believe it.

Opposite George

Samson's picture

AR must be the "only QB in the NFL" to change a play that his coach has called! -- Gimme a break. -- It happens on many occurances in many, many games all across the NFL.

Here's food for thought. --- AR sure won a lot of games for the Pack with his "maverick attitude" in spite of his inept HC.

Packerpasty's picture

yup...if this last year was all his fault, then all those wins must have been his doings too...cant have it both ways, and one thing for sure, us people here on this blog have no clue what went on, who did what, we know none of it...pretty sure management knows a tiny bit more than us...everyone will be back on the QB12 bandwagon if the Pack gets back to playoffs...big "if" with this crappy roster though...oh, thats AR's fault too...

Since '61's picture

Exactly correct. See my post below, let Rodgers all the plays, give him the offense. Controversy over play calling will be over. Thanks, Since '61

Old School's picture

In over 50 years of playing, coaching, and officiating I have found that it works best if players play, coaches coach, and officials officiate.

In this specific situation, given that Rodgers is a skilled and savvy player, you’re obviously hoping for a productive partnership with the coach.

Packers0808's picture

Then why hire a coach? Employ Rodgers as the old days player/coach!

Bert's picture

The controversy over play calling will be over as long as AR accepts both responsibility for the play calling and accountability for the results. I'm not sure he is willing or able to do both.

cuervo's picture

"AR must be the "only QB in the NFL" to change a play that his coach has called! -- Gimme a break. -- It happens on many occurances in many, many games all across the NFL."

Not according to Mercedes Lewis who in his 13 years hasn't ever seen it happen. Sorry, but I'll take his word over your opinion.

Skip greenBayless's picture

I agree cuervo. Samsons a blubbering idiot who hates MM at all costs. Mercedes Lewis is a highly intelligent person. I heard him speak many times. This guy could run for President he's that well spoken and articulate. His words really carry the most weight to date. The guy has no reason to make this stuff up. He was only here a year.

Samson's picture

I don't hate MM. -- I actually believe he's a fine, honorable person. -- He's just not a very good NFL HC. --- This will be proven in his next HC job. --- His only hope of success will be if he falls into another HOF QB to lead his new team.

edp1959's picture

I can make the same assumption, Dash is a blubbering idiot based on the useless dribble he spouts here everyday because he hates Rodgers. Well, that was easy and refreshing.

LeotisHarris's picture

edp1959, Riprock invented the God Shamgod crossover (which is far from useless!), so please show some respect if you're going to bring that kind of drivel in here.

Lare's picture

If the SI article earlier in the season is to be believed, the main cause of the friction between McCarthy & Rodgers this season was because they would all watch film throughout the week picking plays they felt would be effective and deciding on those that wouldn't. Then when it came to the final install meeting McCarthy would skip it, so the rest of the offensive staff along with Rodgers would set the plays for the game. Then during the game McCarthy would ignore what everyone else decided and call plays that everyone had decided wouldn't work.

I'm not saying that Rodgers handled everything well this season, but it sounds like him being frustrated was somewhat justified.

Since '61's picture

Excellent point Lare!!! Thanks, Since '61

Oppy's picture

This is grossly inaccurate. MM didn't "ignore" what everyone else decided, or call plays that "everyone had decided wouldn't work". Bad memory or personal bias, you've filled in a lot of blanks with your own details. The article says that MM would change things during the Saturday walkthroughs, which is strange, because it also says Rodgers and MM would meet on saturdays to discuss as well.

Here is the passage directly from the article:

"On Saturdays before games, McCarthy and Rodgers go over which plays Rodgers likes and wants to keep and which plays he wants cut from the game plan. Though the two meet individually three to four times each week during the season, a source close to the quarterback says that, because McCarthy has other duties as the head coach, he misses several offensive install meetings or quarterback meetings, a source of frustration for Rodgers because McCarthy will add or change plays during the Saturday walkthroughs that mess with the established flow of the game plan."

Skip greenBayless's picture

"Bad memory or personal bias, you've filled in a lot of blanks with your own details. "

I see Lare did the same to you Oppy. He seems to have a hablt of making up his own versions of a story than changing words to fit his narrative. He just did the same damn thing to me regarding Winston Moss. Lare I am guessing probably works for CNN. Lyin' Lare is FAKE NEWS!! There, I said it!!


Oppy's picture

Let me add my own bias in on this:

What the "Source close to the QB" really means is that Aaron Rodgers didn't like the coaches final decisions on the gameplan, so he would sulk about it and change the coaches' plays during the games anyways, then do things like insinuate It's the HC's fault they didn't run the ball more, because the HC calls the plays, not the QB.

4thand10's picture

Who did Lewis have for great QBs exactly? Gabbert? We were all familiar with MMs coaching... the ill planned timeouts, the poorly timed challenges, the ridiculous let’s kick a 60 yard field goal rather than pinning a team deep, passing the ball EVERY TIME on 3rd n 1 or 3rd n 2 .....that’s all MM. Either way...we will find out when a new coach comes in. Whom to believe? Jennings, Lewis, MM? Evidence can go all ways and sideways. But there is plenty of evidence on MM and TEd. For all anyone knows...Rodgers could have been the one holding it together. Who knows? The one knows.

Old School's picture

This is why the Packers will hire an experienced NFL head coach who already has a positive relationship with Rodgers, not some college guy .

Old School's picture

This is why the Packers will hire an experienced NFL head coach who already has a positive relationship with Rodgers, not some college guy .

Skip greenBayless's picture

I have to say Old School this latest bombshell by Mercedes Lewis certainly puts your Philbin theory back into play. It didn't look good yesterday but I would say this helps. Probably down to one nice guy (Philbin) vs. one a-hole (McDaniels). Which coaching style is better for Rodgers and for the overall team? Christ, this is Brett Favre all over again. It's amazing what is transpiring.

Samson's picture

Old School & Dash -- two of a kind.
Talking all the time & saying very little.

Old School's picture

And Samson, bringing no football observations or insights but just cluttering up the thread with personal insults.

Old School's picture

And Samson, bringing no football observations or insights but just cluttering up the thread with personal insults.

Skip greenBayless's picture

So true Old School. You are one of the top five reads here with your superior football knowledge. The past week I've been attacked by Lare, Fastmoving and now this little kid Samson. I think it's all personal with these people due to their political views. Fastmoving actually attacked me for branding and making Kumerow famous world wide. Can you believe it Old School? I am noticing the same treatment with you, Taryn and especially Kirk. Kirk is really bringing some much needed extra strength input here as of late and getting brutally attacked. For what? honesty? I just wish some of these jealous people here would appreciate the diverse opinions and incredible skill sets some of us bring here.

Old School's picture

Disagreeing is different than personally attacking. I don't mind the former.....let's argue about it. But there's no reason to insult people. It doesn't improve the discussion.

John Kirk's picture

What a great thing it was to extend him. Worst decision made by this org in awhile and there's been many.

As soon as I read Lewis' comment I knew he was talking about Seattle because Rodgers was bombing plays all night and finally completed one.

I was going nuts on Twitter about Rodgders continually throwing deep that game. It made no sense. We'd have 3rd and 8 or whatever and he'd be firing it way down field.

Given that stupid extension and this is how he carried himself. What a punk. An absolute punk.

The Jason La Canfora stories about him that I heard that weren't flattering about him personally tanking to get McCarthy fired now make sense. I already believed it, but this just is confirmation bias.

McDaniels deserves Rodgers and vice-versa. Two jackasses.

Things have gone fantasticly since Murphy became micro manager.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Why is Kirk getting a single dislike for this comment. It's all true.

packergal's picture


I agree with you on JK and not sure why dislikes are given when he posts true statements.

Also, JK deserves a like for remembering Taco Wallace, (below post) who gets a giant dislike!

Skip greenBayless's picture

Yeah, I read that and was impressed packergal. Taco Wallace. He probably got a dislike from some young college noneducated kid who thinks Kirk is a racist. Kirks been on fire lately. I'm really enjoying reading what he has to say.


Rebecca's picture

I love seeing a gentleman having the back of another fine gentleman! Cheers to you, Dash.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Thank you Rebecca. Kirk doesn't deserve all these dislikes for his incredible content. All I can conclude based on my own experience is people probably agree with him but they hate his tone. Sounds similar to someone else I shall not name. Cue Fastmoving and Lare in 3,2,1.

4thand10's picture

What did Cousins do in Min? Vikings fans should be really disappointed...they were what? 2 games ahead of GB when everybody had them pegged for s Super Bowl? Look at the Saints....Brees had a couple of bad years in a row with Payton...and now they have home field. There was nothing wrong with signing Rodgers. The same arguement could be made that MM should have been gone in 2015. Sticking with Capers, slocom , zookeeper et al. Pin it on Rodgers ...that’s fine, no QB is perfect...but Cousins had double the talent on that Vikings team and the Pack legitimately beat them minus the shit calls...

John Kirk's picture

Minnesota is almost as big of a mess as Green Bay. I'm stunned Zimmer didn't get fired.

He hired John DeFilippo and then decides after Week 14 he and DeFilippo have philosophical differences?

This should've been figured out before he decided to hire him. Now, they've said DeFilippo defied him and had to be fired, but Zimmer looks really, really, really bad. WEAK.

If Zimmer wanted an OC who was going to run the ball, that's who he shoudl've hired. Not come to a guy who wanted to sling it around and then tell him he needed to run it more. Total idiocy.

I once foolishly believed Zimmer was a great coach. We're VERY fortunate with their talent he's their general. That team not making the playoffs is a disgrace.

If I was Vikings GM/Owner whomever...Zimmer is gone without question.

They paid 84 mil for the missing piece and miss the playoffs after NFC Championship game. Deliciously delightful but tempered by the Packers own mess which is worse.

Skip greenBayless's picture

lol... 4th and 10 I was talking about John Kirk not Kirk Cousins.. You are probably effing with me but if not it's hilarious.


RCPackerFan's picture

My question is how long has this been going on?
Was it just this year. Has it been going on for years?

Regardless, hopefully Rodgers buys into the new HC and OC. If he doesn't there could be more problems.

We really need a new Head Coach that can do for Rodgers what McCarthy did for Favre when he first came back. He needs that guy to come in and fix him.

Not saying there is a lot wrong with Rodgers, but there definitely was a cloud over Rodgers all year. What it was from, I have no clue. Regardless Rodgers needs a new voice to come in and get him to buy into what the new offense wants to do.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Why is everyone saying MM came in and fixed Farve? The Packers didn't win a SB with Farve & MM. I want the next HC to come in and take GB to a SB appearance while we have Rodgers under contract.

cuervo's picture

"Why is everyone saying MM came in and fixed Farve? The Packers didn't win a SB with Farve & MM"

Well, they might have if Farve wouldn't have blown another big game with his untimely interception in OT .

John Kirk's picture

"Fixed" Favre is just a lazy narrative that feeds into the larger point one tries convincing themselves of that Mike McCarthy was a great HC.

Aaron Rodgers apparently didn't think much of MM. If insano in the membraino Winston Moss is correct, we're not even really sure what kind of coach Mike McCarthy is other than a neutered one.

fthisJack's picture

I think the cloud was MM. Rodgers accuracy was abysmal all year until MM was fired and then wallah! Rodgers looked more like Rodgers.

RCPackerFan's picture

Do you not remember what Favre was like before McCarthy and what he was like after McCarthy?

Favre did what he wanted and was spoiled the few years before McCarthy came. Sherman let him get away with a lot of stuff. McCarthy came and reined him in.

The next HC HAS to get Rodgers play up to his abilities and to buy into what the coach wants him to do. How many times did we see Rodgers hold the ball on plays that were open. Those plays need to end. If he is supposed to hit the slant pass and its open, he has to throw it.

I agree that the next coach has to be the guy to take them to the Super Bowl. We have probably 5 years or so left of Rodgers. They have to do everything possible to get there with him. That means Rodgers has to buy into what they want to do.

John Kirk's picture

You might want to take a look at his numbers. He had one horrific season...the last one with Sherman where guys like Taco Wallace were on the roster. His passer rating was virtually exactly the same last year Sherman, first year MM.

Go look for yourself at Favre's career stats. An incredibly lazy narrative saying McCarthy "fixed" Favre. It's honestly laughable in full context of the situation in Sherman's last season. Ted gave him a roster to force him out. Favre, of course, is not to have a great season with an F level roster.

There was no fixing by McCarthy. Look at the numbers the final 3 years of Sherman and the numbers under McCarthy.

You think he "fixed" him because we went from 4-12 to the NFC Championship in 2 years but there's so much missing context in between those two events and surrounding the years before Sherman's finale.

Jonathan Spader's picture


I do not remember Farve before Rodgers. I was born and raised in AK. I became a Packer fan when I moved to WI right as MM took over as HC. That's why I'm genuinely asking what Favre was like prior to MM and why you think he was "fixed" with no SB ring with Favre + MM. In my eyes I saw Favre making poor decisions with amazing arm strength and pinpoint accuracy. It led to breathtaking throws along with heartbreaking ones. He would never lead the league in throwaways like Rodgers but has the all time lead for interceptions. I remember Favre saying you miss 100% of the throws you never attempt.

John Kirk's picture

There is no answer forthcoming. There was no "fixing"'s just a phrase that gained acceptance because it went unchallenged.

It is not true.

Old School's picture

Brett Favre was an exceptionally good QB from good as any at any time. From 1998, over the last 10 years of his time with Green Bay, he was a good QB when he protected the ball. Unfortunately...…….

Over the last 10 years in Green Bay, he was kind of exalted beyond what he was actually doing. He had a superpowered arm that could throw a pork chop past a hungry hound dog, but he tried to force stuff that wasn't there sometimes and it hurt bad in the playoffs.

Anyway, one of the things that he said during his lengthy holdout following the 2005 debacle (36 freakin' turnovers by Favre) was "What are they going to do...cut me?" It kind of underscored the "bigger-than-the-team" hubris.

Did McCarthy "resurrect" Favre? Well, we still missed the playoffs in 2006 and Favre had a passer rating on the season of 72.9 and had as many interceptions as TDs.

The next year, 2007, Favre was better. It was his last season in Green Bay. It ended like so many seasons had....with a Favre interception.

Resurrect? No. He provided some accountability. We did have an alternative on the bench.

Overall, I'd still take Starr, and then Rodgers, before Favre. And that's jut the ones I've seen. Nobody could lead a team in the clutch like Bart Starr, and Rodgers just is so careful with the ball and so good at improvising.

John Kirk's picture

"We have a good relationship built on mutual respect."

Remember that lie of a line? Yeah, I don't listen to him and he doesn't listen to me.

Magic've made a mess of things and you're the one holding the broom and Brian the dustpan? Oh, boy.

Lare's picture

You're going to be really pissed if Murphy & Gutekunst hire a new HC that makes the Packers a winning team aren't you?

Since '61's picture

I have posted numerous times that Rodgers should be allowed to call the plays. Why? because some QBs, no all, have a better feel for the game and for the flow of the game on the field then a coach on the sidelines or up in the booth. Starr called his own plays, Unitas, Montana and many of the other great QBs.

Some guys can't do it but others can. Heck Don Shula sent in the FG unit one time and Unitas asked them "what the heck are you doing here?" " Coach wants to kick an FG." "Get the hell out of here," Unitas replied.
"We're going to make a first down and then we're going to score a TD." Sure enough, the Colts made a first down and went on to score a game winning TD.

Imagine what this blog would like if that ever happened with Rodgers. The smartest thing a new HC might do is just give Rodgers the offense. Ends the play calling debate and the dysfunction on offense from day one.

MM calling the plays was just an ego thing on his part. He liked the chess match as he would say during his pressers. The problem was he often misplayed the match and often at crucial times.

If you are going to put the whole game and season on Rodgers anyway then let him call his own plays. I've never liked the 10 or 15 scripted plays to start a game anyway. Who knows how many of them Rodgers has checked out of over the years.

This is not Rodgers being a diva, this is Rodgers being a good football player and a great QB who has a better feel for what is going on with his players, his opponent and the flow of the game than his coaches have.

First fix the OL, then get at least one more quality NFL WR and an actual athletic NFL TE. Plus a bruising bell weather type of RB. Then give Rodgers the offense and let him play. Everyone here wants more aggressive play calling, well Rodgers is the guy. What is the worst that could happen? 6-9-1 again? We did it with MM we can do it without him, but more than likely we'll improve. Thanks, Since '61

John Kirk's picture

The Unitas thing is fantastic IF it works. What Rodgers did, didn't.

Aaron had an abysmal season. You want to be a player-coach then you better get it right.

Winston Moss: ‘Rodgers has been the head coach for the past nine years’

So, in essence, Rodgers should've been fired not McCarthy. Aaron was the de facto play caller.

Those who railed McCarthy for his playcalling need to just transfer their comments over to Aaron Rodgers. Will they? No.

You pay a guy the richest contract in NFL history and that's what you got for it in 2018. Look at what we got from Jimmy Graham. That's a boatload of cash for 6-9-1

Packers are truly on their way to being the Browns and the Browns the Packers. This org is a shell of what it once was. The effects of the erosion are now being noticed for those who are looking.

No way Magic Mark turns it around when he's the reason we're in the ditch.

Since '61's picture

John - I agree with you on Murphy. But why not let Rodgers call the plays?
Peyton Manning did it with the Colts and Broncos.

With a new HC/OC a new offense will be installed hopefully with input from Rodgers. Then let Rodgers run it. The OC or HC can always send in a play if necessary or if they notice defensive adjustments from the booth.

If you let Rodgers call the plays the Packers will have a better tempo and maybe not need to consistently waste time outs like they do. Also, we may not need to run the play clock down to the last second on every play. It could work out for the better. There are no rules that say that the HC or the OC needs to call the plays.

It's difficult to fault Rodgers play calling when the example given results in a 40+ yard gain. Besides we don't know how many plays Rodgers has changed over the years anyway. If we give him the offense we'll know who is calling the plays. It simplifies everything. It's not a matter of who calls the plays it's a matter of execution once the play is called.

The Packers are paying Rodgers a ton of money and putting the season on his shoulders anyway. Giving him the play calling just adds to him earning the money. Remember the video on Al showed on us on Wednesday where the point was that the plays calls result in Rodgers needing to make difficult throws to make a first down when the Packers had been running the ball effectively? Play calling is a process and it's time to simplify the process and make it easier for this offense to move the chains. We just need to add a few key pieces on offense and defense and we can get there. Thanks, Since '61

John Kirk's picture

I don't care who calls plays as long as they work. The play Marcedes is apparently referencing is ONE completed 40 yard pass in a game that featured multiple attempts at a deep shot to Adams at Seattle. If my memory is correct on the research I did on that play at the time, that's only Adams FOURTH catch of that distance in his career. It's incredibly low percentage and Adams is the wrong guy to be throwing deep shots to.

This really is Favre redeux. Like Favre, the organization enabled him and he had to go. I think Rodgers is worse and more of a monster. I don't think people who read my stuff understand what a huge fan of Aaron Rodgers I used to be. I can't stand him now. Same thing happened with Favre. There's reasons for this. I would love to have the respect for Rodgers I once had but it's not possible. That guy is about as unlikable as Josh Rosen at this stage. I don't think there's a bigger phony in the NFL than him.

Our QB is a trainwreck. Our FO is a trainwreck. Our roster is awful.

I'm literally bracing for the HC announcement that will send me off into the ether. This once proud organization has eroded to the point of it no longer being recognizable. The org you once thought you knew does not exist. It is gone. It truly is and I feel sorry for all the rabid downvoters of my posts that it's the truth and they can't or choose not to see it.

fthisJack's picture

Kirk....this is Spock. i'm going to beam you up before you are sucked into the ether and can no longer fix the Green Bay Packers.

John Kirk's picture

Oh, I thought this was Spock on the forum?

I can't fix a sandwich so how am I going to "fix" the Packers?

BTW, until Magic Mark goes, it's not fixable.

pacman's picture

That's why I called for AR to call the plays after MM was fired. It was an opportunity to let him put up or shut up. For all we know he did. Maybe Philbin was just 'recommending' things on the headset.

But a QB play caller will too likely call pass play. So either way, there has to be agreed upon control, limits, etc. I don't know how a QB play caller manages player changes between plays. There has to be very good coordination between QB, HC and OC. I would like to know the % of time that AR talks to the OC/HC when on the sidelines vs other top qb's. Most of the time we see pictures of him sitting on bench. He should be looking that he last set of downs.

packerbackerjim's picture

I still have a hard time with GB getting a delay of game AFTER a timeout. Never would have happened if Rodgers had complete autonomy.

NitschkeFan's picture

There is some truth to your statement but I assume you also agree that with the new contract people should get used to the fact that AR will be the Packers QB for many more years. His contract is "untradeable" (at least for any real value in return) unless he plays like an MVP, in which case you wouldn't want to trade him.

Demon's picture

Exactly 61! I remember reading that in SB XXXI that early in the game Rison told Favre in the huddle " any time you need it, I can beat this guy deep" I doubt he told Holmgren that on the sidelines.

John Kirk's picture

I doubt that he didn't.

Since '61's picture

It doesn't matter, Favre called an audible (a perfect example of a QB knowing when to call the right play) on that play and he and Rison hit it perfectly. Again it doesn't matter who called the play it was the execution starting with the OL, the QB, the WR running the route and the catch that made the play work. Thanks, Since '61

Bure9620's picture

This does not look good. This WILL deter some coaches, not all.

stockholder's picture

Insubordination? I stuck up for MM! I said don't sign Rodgers extension. Rodgers has shown his true colors. MM/We dumped his friends. Nelson was their union rep. Its now obvious why Dix and Monty left. It's now obvious why Rodgers held onto the ball. GOING LONG for STATS. It's now obvious why Crosby didn't care, if he missed field Goals. Yes MM lost control to Rodgers. And then his job. It's time to replace some veterans. It's no longer about winning. It's about stealing money. And the biggest thief is Rodgers. You won't be able to draft the next QB till Rodgers is gone. He'll only poison him. The packers now must sign Phibin. You have to give the baby what he wants. And keep this franchise reputation clean. Rodgers now deserves all the pressure anyone can give him. Lets keep this defensive staff intact. I only hope Philbin cares enough to agree to Rodgers terms. Because I sure don't. The new coach will have to bench Rodgers. Insubordination should never be tolerated.

Lare's picture

I haven't seen this much melodrama since I walked through the living room while my wife was watching a soap opera.

Skip greenBayless's picture

As usual an excellent read stockholder.


Bert's picture

Interesting. Do MM and Gute hire a guy that can coach Aaron or a guy that Aaron can coach?

Since '61's picture

When you pay a player as much as the Packers are paying Aaron Rodgers you have basically made the guy a partner in running the team or at least the offense, like it or not. The smartest thing the HC can do is let Rodgers run the offense on the field. Simplify the process and end the play calling controversies. Thanks, Since '61

NitschkeFan's picture

Agree 100%. Too late to cry about the contract. AR is now, and will be for the next few years, running the team. Make the offense around him as good as it can be.

stockholder's picture

I agree with being stuck with Rodgers etc. But not the Offense now. It's all about the defense now. The first three picks should be defense. Any rookie is not going to be ready on the OL. Don't sign Mathews, Cobb, or renew any TE. Draft your Defense now! Sign Collins S and Preston smith LB. Draft accordingly. BPA on defense. Even if it's White. The bears did not draft around their QB. They went defense up the middle. And the packers are to weak up the middle.

John Kirk's picture

Any rookie is not going to be ready on the OL? Do you recall Quenton Nelson and Mike McGlinchey from this draft?

You want to draft defense which has been overwhelmingly drafted in Ted's tenure and continued under Brian with picks 1-2 and 3 all on defense last year?

BEST player available. Not NEED. Need drafting has destroyed this team. It's always said it's not need it's BPA but that's a total lie.

Josh Jackson should've never been drafted nor Oren Burks. Two NEED picks. Before you can't wait to tell me how highly touted Josh Jackson was, he fell for a reason just like Jerrell Worthy.

All I know is Brian isn't likely to get it right. 3 wastes of money in FA. Brutal contract extension for Rodgers (I realize that one has Magic Mark all over it) Josh, Jackson, Oren Burks, J'Mon Moore, Cole Madison, J.K. Scott, Kendall Donnerson and Hunter Bradley. Those are some dreadful picks. Alexander looks like another one of those roid warriors who'll be hurt all the time. MVS and ESB nice value picks.

Ted-light at GM and Magic Mark at CEO...and a media who was so clueless they need national outlets to report stories they should've been all over.

stockholder's picture

McGilnchey was a blue chip. Williams will also start in this years draft. If the packers get a Blue chip player that can start from day one you pick him. Done! But thats not how this years draft reads. First you draft defense again because of Rodgers!! The talent on the offensive side, is the OL, later in this draft. Draft Offense "only" after pick 3!!! Because of Nice Value! And Rodgers. IF RODGERS GETS HURT THERE WILL BE NO DEVELOPMENT. Example: TTs- Adams, and Williams Rbs. MVS, St. Brown, and Moore. I was against Burks, and the trade up, it cost them another OL and Thomas a TE. (Still time is required with later picks. ) The scouting reports are correct coming out. Not all can blanket cover. Gute can't make a Jones mistake again. I would not draft defense after 3 this year. Their just to slow! The defense can still win ball games if Rodgers goes down. The defense is needed until Rodgers does what he's Told. Don't waste anymore picks because Rodgers wants stats, and veterans, over Rookies. It will be a waste of money and they will not develop. This defense must be built for a super-bowl. It doesn't have the personal. Draft hitters? I want tacklers that take the right angle and stop people.

John Kirk's picture

What? Are you paying attention? There's a bevy of OL who will likely go in the Top 25 picks. Multiple OTs and a G.

You NEVER go into a draft saying I have to draft "x" position. That leads to reaching and dismissing a much better prospect at another position. The down the road accumulation of that is players of less ability at ALL positions. Draft BPA and net effect is best possible player at all positions. Obviously, process might be sound but reality much different but you don't go NEED drafing that is a MAJOR reason this team is headed toward being the old Browns.

I'm good with an OL up high. I'm good with WR. I'm good with QB. I'm good with most positions.

stockholder's picture

Top 25. Only 1 will start. Never = correct. BPA doesn't work later= Scheme does. /// Browns. No - This team lost players and had to draft to fill the hole. John John John. A qb with Rodgers now. Roll the dice with Kizer. But = You never know with a QB . (Joe Montana!).

fastmoving's picture

if you give the O to AR, he only needs Adams to go deep every play. No RBs, not Rookie WRs and the rest 9 guys can block.

And Im sure he would prefer to be the CEO and GM too. If he not already is……

I like AR a lot, but he is still just a part of the team. A 20% part, but still just a part. And there is no way around that he really did not play that well. No matter how you look at it. He did less with more, even some find reasons to blame it on everyone else besides him.

And AR never took criticism very well…….

Since '61's picture

That is just about where we are at now given the level of talent on the offense after Adams. Thanks, Since '61

Jonathan Spader's picture

How did that work out for Hundley fast moving? Seen that movie, the ending sucked.

fastmoving's picture

yeah he sucked, even he was just 2% of the team, but you dont want to compare AR with BH????? There are maybe 50 QBs out there who are better than BH.....

Jonathan Spader's picture

There are 1000s who are worse, what's your point? I'm saying an offense that revolves around 1 player combination can only take you so far. Look at Dalton and Green. GB needs to spread the ball around to be successful.

Tundraboy's picture

Sometimes I feel like we're the only team that would sign a free agent tight end, accomplished veteran no less, and use them so sparingly. Four targets ? Really, after the season that he had with Jacksonville? Not even using him to block while Bulaga recovered?

I sure hope things are different next year. Please!!

Rebecca's picture

And now Mercedes Lewis reveals who's really in charge at Lambeau, and he is not going anywhere soon. We all know it's Mr.Rodgers' neighborhood and whomever is picked as head coach needs to be approved by Sir Aaron GOAT Rodgers. That is ALL!


Community Guy's picture

i see that this comment got down-voted.. hmm. i think a whole lot of people are kind of stuck on a rigid chain-of-command, "do your job/stay within your role" mentality. yeah, maybe football has some parallels with war. on the other hand, maybe intelligent, well-meaning people can collectively agree to work things out, regardless of their titles.

there is one thing i definitely do not like about Rodgers: he chastises his WR corps publicly. those guys' livelihoods are dependent on the QB getting them the ball. if Rodgers doesn't want to follow chain-of-command, then he should not expect "his" WRs to play to his command either. there is a word.. i think it is.. hypocrisy.

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

OMG.... the sky is falling!

Come on...Rodgers is not a diva! Guy plays injured and a team player.

The is absolutely no doubt after 13 years experience and lining up under center reading the defense Rodgers is in a better position to make play calling adjustments. MM had no creativity and was not a very good play caller anyway. How many examples do we need. MM was an average coach benefiting from 2 extraordinary QB's, and he sounds like he is getting ready to benefit from another star QB with Cle or Jets. If MM was a great coach he wouldn't have fought the play changes by Rodgers and would have focused more on managing the team. Plus, focusing more on the defense and special teams where extra attention was needed for years.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I keep thinking about seeing AR watch a play on a tablet where he missed a wide open receiver in the end zone, and then throw the tablet to the ground.

There are certainly benefits to being on the field, but I think there are benefits to being up in the box and on the sidelines.

lou's picture

People forget that the McCarthy - Rodgers duo functioned really well until Tom Clements was dismissed with no good reason as the Associate Head Coach Offense (basically to promote Edgar Bennet to OC). The most pressing QB issue is a "real backup QB", Kizer made Hundley look like Joe Montana in the preseason. How many games did Rodgers play relatively injury free in the last 2 seasons and he is now 35. The Packers need a veteran backup because based on past injury and age factors that backup will need to probably play 3-5 games a season going forward. They should have kept Flynn at the Vets minimum the last several years, I don't care how young Kizer is, as Bob McGinn notes he will throw 2-3 beach balls for picks every game (fortunately in the final game one was dropped in the breadbasket of a CB but the other intercepted.

Coach JV's picture

I see a lot of blame being thrown at Rodgers. I see a lot of people calling him a diva and such (which might be coming true).

The problem here is that I see a lot of the same names dogging him here who also dog MM on his play calling... so which is it?

AR? MM? Both?

One thing I do know for sure is that my girlfriend, who doesn't watch football (except occasionally with me on prime time) was able to correctly forecast a pass or a run just by the way they lined up. That - my friends - is STALE.

From what I see, we had a coach who became dull and predictable and his ego was too big to see it.
I also see that we have a QB who is getting too big for his britches... and his ego is too big to see it.

We NEEDED two losing seasons in a row in order to bring this to light. Like it or not, we did.

I have faith that we will find the right "Mastermind and Play caller" to get us back on track on the field and in the locker room.

And as far as Marcedes Lewis is concerned, is lack of usage as a blocker this season - particularly when our OL sucked - is evidence that we didn't have the right "Mastermind and Play caller" in place.

If we get that done, "Winning" will take care of the locker room.

Just observations from a Pack fan since Majik and Sharpe hooked up on their first TD pass.

Let the thumbs now drop... :-)

Lare's picture

Nice post Coach.

Coach JV's picture

Thank you!

LeotisHarris's picture

Well said, Coach! Thumbs up on the post, and your girlfriend.

Curious, once the ball was snapped did she have any thoughts on our pad level, or how each athlete who'd earned the right to compete fared in his individual battle at the point of attack? Ever hear her mumbling in her sleep about stacking successes?

Keep an eye on her. It could be she has The Gift, you know, just like Riprock, but only with real-world powers.

Coach JV's picture

Hehehe... no comments on pad level, but she did comment a few times on why they didn't give 33 the ball on most of those runs. "He's fast and bounces off guys like a pinball" she would say.'s picture

just 1 thing.
rodgers had a top10 defense 1 time.
he won the SB.
end of the story.
failure is all on ted&mike

edp1959's picture


Since '61's picture

Nice job,BYU. I've been posting the same since 2012. Case closed. Thanks, Since '61

Rebecca's picture

Oooo...edging closer to the truth! Defense, Defense, defense.

Oppy's picture

Except that in 2009 the Packers were #7 in total points.
Side note, they also just missed the top ten in 2012 (#11) and 2015 (#12) for total points.

But, I generally agree that Defense had been the missing component.

4thand10's picture

Even with that top defense ...Big Ben threw for 450 yards. In 2013, Capers style 3-4 was already out of date and getting abused by a college wildcat play and a wildcat style QB. The Ravens are running that same style wildcat offense right now... It usually catches the league off guard for about 7 games, it’s not sustainable and the the good coaches catch it and see it happening....MM didn’t and never did.

marpag1's picture

I dunno. Honestly, I don't put a lot of stock in it... even if it's completely true. Aside from an occasional Larry Fitzgerald or Drew Brees who are generally regarded as nice guys, a whole lot of the NFL's best players will become petulant divas when the team starts losing or even when little things don't go their way.

What happens to Tom Brady when it becomes clear that Bill Bellichick likes Jimmy Garrapolo more than he likes Tom Brady's personal trainer? People were actually speculating that Bellichick might be out of New England. And that happens even when New England is winning SBs every other year. Roethlesberger feels compelled to throw a hissy fit when the team that gave him cool toys like Antonio Brown and LeVeon Bell has the audacity to draft a backup QB in the third round. (Oh, and Antonio Brown has always been petulant A-hole too, but none of that really comes to light until the wheels fall off, as they now have in Pittsburgh). Nobody really liked Phillip Rivers - ever - he's been considered a cocky, first class jerk pretty much from day one. Cam Newton won an MVP and just about got lynched by his own team... all during the same season. People put up with it and swept it under the rug until after they lost a superbowl in which Cam Newton jumped away from a fumble as if it were a pile of toxic waste... and then threw his team under the bus. Russell Wilson may be the most despised man in the Seattle locker room, but everything was cool until he threw that awful INT in the superbowl.

Everybody hated Dan Marino. Elway stomped his feet and pouted so he wouldn't have to bear the indignity of playing for the team that drafted him. Eli Manning and his daddy did the same.

Heck, Favre demanded that he needed to have his own personal locker room, and nobody even knew about it until after he had clearly lost his game and made a laughingstock out of the GB organization. In reality, Favre turned out to be one of the biggest divas in the entire history of the NFL.

Heck of a lot of hall of famers in that list of divas.

Give everybody a fresh start and win a few games in a row, and nobody's going to bitch anymore about ARod being a diva.

Since '61's picture

Marpag - well said as usual. Thanks, Since ‘61

Lare's picture

Gets my vote for Post of the Year, and we're only 4 days in.

Nicely done.

John Kirk's picture

The moral of this post is:

Even if Aaron is a total jackass, it's okay because other people are jackasses too?

4thand10's picture

Nobody knows who that is ....MM, Rodgers...?? A lot of top paid good QBs have missed the plane ride this year ( Super Bowl) . Are they bad QBs? Or is it just a cycle teams go through? AR....even in a bad year...was still PFFs top 5. Anyone’s top 5. As many throw always...still an 87% completion percentage. How many rookies did we see quit on routes when things broke down. How many themes did we see Graham run a route and the just stand there...not coming back to the QB? Would you rather have Cousins, Stafford or turdbuskut for a QB? I’d still take Rodgers. The rest of the NFC north has not capitalized on 2 down Packers seasons. Manning came back, Favre came back, Brees came back...and Rodgers will come back. The people who are screaming diva have not been blessed with 25 yrs of good QB play.I Keep hopealive with a new coach, some personnel changes , player changes. Should the Vikings trade Cousins? Maybe go back to Christian Ponder? have AR, you keep him, put good players around him and hope for the best. He’s on contract anyway.

John Kirk's picture

PFF is a J O K E. BTW, Rodgers is their 6th rated QB.

This mythical proprietary grading system PFF uses. What is it? Who is doing it? Reasearch their origin. It's gained traction because Collinsworth bought in and it's promoted on SNF. T.J. Lang thinks real highly of them and went on to say fellow players think it's a joke.

Lamar Jackson is their 31st ranked guy. Guess who has the best QB rating in the 4th quarter? Not Drew Brees, or Pat Mahomes...Lamar Jackson. I'm not championing Jackson just showing extremes in stats depending on what's being measured.

Anyone with eyes saw Rodgers wasn't very good this year and sometimes downright bad. Why this need to justify him when he wasn't good? It won't kill you to admit it and you're not less of a fan for telling the truth. I'd rather be an honest fan who tells the truth than the alternative.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Where's Bart Starr's name on the list of Diva's above. Oh that's right he's not a Diva. You know there was a time early in Rodgers' career where it was kind of refreshing to have another Bart Starr on this team again. With him signing this contract and all the commercials and the stories of him fighting with family members and getting head coaches fired it really makes you wonder just who this guy really is. I have a feeling he's not any where near the sqeaky clean image that Hollywood and million dollar companies like State Farm want you to believe. The problem is if you speak out against "the image" you will pay an awful steep price.


Jordan Rodgers
Mrs. Rodgers
Fred Rogers
Greg Jennings and sister
Jermichael Finley
Winston Moss
Michael McCarthy
others pending

LeotisHarris's picture

Image is a powerful thing, and sometimes legends get a pass. Say for example there was a good Chiristian man, a man who always made a public point to stand for conservative values, even campaigned in Milwaukee for Mitt Romney for President, then had no qualms traveling to Mexico to receive stem cell transplants (cells from a donated fetus) not available in the United States.

I'm sure Bart Starr and Aaron Rodgers have done more good with their fame, and their financial resources than you and I could ever hope to do, Dash. Speaking truth to wealth and power always has serious consequences, and there are skeletons in every closet.

Help me, though. I don't recall Fred Rogers speaking out against Aaron. Did Fred throw 12 under the bus for his treatment of Daniel Tiger?

Oppy's picture

....hey guys just popped on here haven't looked at the news lately anything new going on?


Swisch's picture

The key is that if Aaron Rodgers is a diva, he doesn't have to continue being so.
The ideal new coach would be personable enough to persuade Rodgers to accept coaching, but also have the guts to bench him if he doesn't.
The front office has to be solidly behind the coach.
I'm all for the Packers going half way to please Aaron, but after that point I'd sit him down, and then try to trade him for a first-rounder, a third-rounder, and a veteran offensive lineman.
Even if I couldn't trade him, I'd sit him indefinitely. Aaron, I'm a big fan of yours, but of the Packers more.

AgrippaLII's picture

You call plays to don't call plays to not lose. Seems to me AR gets that...MM never did!

Gman1976's picture

Rodgers had 25 TDS and 2 interceptions during the season. Think about that. He had 25 TDS and 2 interceptions during a down year for him and the Pack. Think about that. And many of you want to trade him?!!! You got to be kidding me.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Aaron Rodgers shattered the record for throwaways in 2018. With that you can throw away your TD to Int ratio along with the 2018 because Aaron sure did. Here's hoping a new HC and more experienced WRs help Aaron have a better 2019.

Ryan B Dub's picture

Accidental double post. Go Pack Go!

Ryan B Dub's picture

The whole narrative that Rogers is a diva is odd. How do you act in every situation? Some people aren’t the same person with every type of person they work with. Some people are. The game of football has some leasurly games, and at times they are absolute chaos. I’d lend the last few years of the Packers has seen a downward dip of talent on offensive line, wide receiver, and running back which seems to have stabilized more. Where did coaching establish playcalling to go along with the active players in the game? Who would use a tight end with a broken thumb over a blocking tight end who can catch all while the offensive line was riddled with holes? Rogers has a lot to be angry about. He is in charge of executing the plays. MM was obsessed with winning one on one battles. That line needed a lot of help. MM didn’t call enough run plays. Not enough quick passing. Where was the slant route, and how long did we go with out using a screen play? 2019 might not be perfect, but I Hope perfection doesn’t kill great.

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"A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall. "
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"I firmly believe that any man’s finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle – victorious."