It's Time To Question the Packers Roster-Building Priorities

The Packers must invest more in the offense

The Green Bay Packers can't blame their defense for the 20-16 loss to the Detroit Lions on Sunday Night Football that eliminated them from the playoffs. Allowing 20 points to the best offense in football since week 10 is more than justifiable. The offense and the lack of offensive talent are the reasons why they lost, and that's a consequence of how this roster has been built.

Since taking over as the general manager in 2018, Brian Gutekunst has made seven first-round picks. Six of them are defensive players, and the other is backup quarterback Jordan Love. Even if you fairly consider wide receiver Christian Watson a high investment in the offense through the draft, it's clear that Gutekunst's philosophy prioritizes the defense. His logic is that the defense needs personnel talent, and the offense could function at a high level because of Aaron Rodgers and a good system. That's not how the NFL works nowadays.

Even if a team spends high draft capital and free agency money on the defense, it's really difficult to assure that the unit will be dominant. Considering how volatile defensive football inherently is, several factors must be positively aligned at the same time for a defense to carry a team. It includes coaching, scheme, health, fit, player development timeline. If it's hard to be good, imagine how hard it is to keep being good.

You could find one or two defenses around the NFL that have been consistently dominant throughout the last half decade (San Francisco 49ers, New Orleans Saints), but they are what they are: exceptions. And even those defenses couldn't translate their success in the playoffs against top offenses.

The future in Green Bay is a complete uncertainty. Aaron Rodgers has to decide his future, Gutekunst has to decide what to do if Rodgers wants to keep playing and what to do with Jordan Love. That sequence of decisions will determine several other moves. Do they keep David Bakhtiari and Aaron Jones? Do they re-sign Allen Lazard and Robert Tonyan?

Those are all fair questions to ask in the next few months. However, they are secondary.

The most important thing for the Packers moving forward is understanding that the offense must be a priority. It is more valuable and more sustainable. If there is an easy path, it's impossible to understand why a team would philosophically choose the harder one.

That's what the Packers have done, though, and it cost them a season when Aaron Rodgers is approaching the final acts of his Hall of Fame career.

Decisions

Matt LaFleur said after the game that he wants Aaron Rodgers back for the 2023 season. That would be financially costly for the Packers, not only because of Rodgers' contract itself, but also because the team would be more inclined to keep their veterans.

Running back Aaron Jones' cap hit jumps from $ 5.9 million to $ 20 million. Left tackle David Bakhtiari's one jumps from $ 13.4 million to $ 29 million. Allen Lazard, Randall Cobb, Robert Tonyan, and Marcedes Lewis are free agents. Even if the Packers are able to restructure or extend deals to make them manageable for the next season, there is a point where it harms the team's future flexibility. And that's for a version of the team that hasn't justified such a vote of confidence.

"Probably a couple players away,” Aaron Rodgers said after the Lions game when asked what he thought about the roster. “Could be guys that develop into those players. I think we're really close, but a couple players away."

The Packers must do in the 2023 offseason a realistic evaluation that they should already have done in 2022. If the team doesn't have a real shot to be better than it was in 2020 and 2021, is it worth it to keep trying with the same roster-building logic and the same core pieces?

Even if the answer is no, a total rebuild isn't necessary. The Packers have good young building blocks, and the second half of this season served to give them playing time and experience.
No attribute is more important for an NFL general manager than the ability to identify where a team is in the roster-building process. Brian Gutekunst can't be wrong again in 2023.

Photo: Dan Powers/USA TODAY NETWORK-Wisconsin / USA TODAY NETWORK

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Wendell Ferreira covers the Green Bay Packers for Zone Coverage and Cheesehead TV. He is a Brazilian journalist with over a decade of experience covering the NFL, soccer, NBA, and MMA. Follow him on twitter at @wendellfp  

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10 points
 

Comments (217)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:07 am

Last offseason decision seriously damaged the Packer organization when they could have fleeced the Denver Broncos for players and draft picks. Could the Packer front office screw it up a 2nd time this offseason? Please...tell me it isn't possible!

Yes, I believe the Packers need a legitimate TE to go along with Tonyan (who I hope is resigned) in order for the Packers to be effective in the red zone. Many now want Notre Dame's TE, Michael Mayer in round 1. Think about it.....the Broncos drafted TE, Noah Fant in the 1st round in 2020 who is 6'5" and runs the 40 in 4.5. The Packers could have had Fant along with two first-round picks, two second-round picks, a fifth-round pick, QB Drew Lock, and defensive lineman Shelby Harris. Plus, the Packers this coming draft would still have that #1 first round pick in 2023 to use to strengthen another position like the DL, OL, or Safety. The failure of Murphy and company decision last season will hang around Lambeau for many years to come. Any objective Packer fan who has watched Rodgers play all year has to agree with me that the last offseason decision was a horrible one and it will sorely affect the team for many years to come.

The other downside to not making the trade last offseason is we now will have to look forward to seeing Jordan Love get much needed game experience in 2023 that he should have received in 2022. Talk about taking multiple steps backwards for the organization with that one major offseason decision.

The Packer's more than anything need the front office to make good decisions. Will this offseason be the start or will they continue to compound one bad decision after another?

33 points
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dobber's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:15 am

"The Packers could have had Fant along with two first-round picks, two second-round picks, a fifth-round pick, QB Drew Lock, and defensive lineman Shelby Harris. "

I agree with the sentiment of moving on rather than reinvesting in a declining commodity, but I am puzzled as to why we keep assuming that the Broncos would have given the Packers the same trade package they gave to Seattle--for a younger QB who (at the time) would afford them a broader window and hadn't had as many media missteps in his recent history? Still, I'd have been very happy just with the pick package even if they didn't get any of the players.

11 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:27 am

Dobber,
I have read multiple times the Broncos first choice was Rodgers. Instead one might ask....might they have even gotten a little more?

10 points
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dobber's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:38 pm

Can't disagree with you...

4 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:00 pm

Thanks Dob!

1 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:57 pm

Yes, but we also have to ask ourselves how different the Broncos' season might have been had they had Rodgers instead of Wilson. For one, they probably could have had at least a couple more wins.

2 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

January 09, 2023 at 05:27 pm

Dobber, I think its a pretty safe assumption Packers wouldve got at least an equal trade package from the Broncos, if not a bigger one. They waited till Rodgers announced his return to GB before trading for Russell Wilson. That tells me Rodgers was their #1 choice and its not a stretch to assume they wouldve traded as much or more for their first choice.

1 points
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gmeyers1's picture

January 09, 2023 at 07:44 pm

In a reverse kind of way, it reminds me of the John Hadl trade.

1 points
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Packers2020's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:43 am

I cannot disagree with anything you have said.

Having said that, these are the players we should keep IMHO:

Aaron Jones- Restructure or do whatever you have to. We have no replacement and Dillion is not the same. Jones makes this Offense much harder to defend.

Tonyan- We do not have anyone else. But draft a TE.

Lazard- As long as he is cheap. He is a solid blocker and is fairly reliable catching the football. Draft another WR high in the draft.

Yosh Nijman- I want to say no but who do you have if you do not keep him. As long as he does not cost an arm and a leg. Draft a LT also.

Nixon- He is a game changer on ST's

Justin Hollins- For depth, I liked what he did since we picked him up. 2.5 or 3 sacks and ok against the run.

I would not keep:

Bak
Amos
Lowry
Cobb
Lewis
Crosby
Reed

I would draft high a LT, WR, or TE. We also need Safety, DL, and depth at CB.

1 points
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Hematite's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:37 pm

According to an article from "Packers Talk", Lazard said that last night was his last game as a Green Bay Packer.

5 points
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4thand10's picture

January 09, 2023 at 01:52 pm

I agree but i would not keep Jones… They kept the wrong guy. Williams should have been kept. I’ll get hate for it, but big games against tougher D fronts he disappears. Nothing is Dillons fault. He gets the tough yards and shouldn’t be ran out of a shotgun all the time. It also was not his fault they handed it to Lazard on 3rd and short, 4th and short or Rodgers throwing at his feet. If Dillon was behind Deguara for at least 45% of the snaps, that Detroit front would have been worn down real quick.

4 points
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fthisJack's picture

January 10, 2023 at 08:53 am

Got to disagree. The Lions have a very good OL so it's expected that Williams looks good. Have you really watched Jones and all the extra yards he makes after contact. Maybe you should be looking at the OL and questioning their ability to run block for him against better defenses. I agree they should have kept Williams but not at the expense of losing Jones.

1 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:01 pm

Jones is 28 years old. Fumbling has become an issue. It isn't practical to retain him, especially since we need the cap relief. I would keep Lewis over Tonyan, because Lewis would be cheaper and his off-the-field leadership is very important. We can draft another TE as well.

Nijman won't cost much. 4.6m tender. Agree with everything else. I can see Crosby and Cobb retiring.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

January 09, 2023 at 09:35 pm

Refi Bhak, draft another OT with a high pick, which should have been done in '22. Walker can replace Nijman as the backup. Newman? Time for a reality check for quite a few fans. Gutedkunst is a liability in the personnel dept.

-2 points
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croatpackfan's picture

January 10, 2023 at 02:57 am

If they will draft another OT, I would prefer not earlier or later than at 4th round...

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

January 10, 2023 at 08:42 am

First or second.

-1 points
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croatpackfan's picture

January 10, 2023 at 10:10 am

Zach Tom, David Bakhtiari, Josh Sitton...

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

January 10, 2023 at 11:28 am

Two picked by Ted. If you want a robust and talented Offensive Line you have to secure the top talent in the higher rounds , just like Philly and the rest. How did Newman and Hanson work out? Rhyan is a question mark.
If they had a competent scouting dept, they would have selected Trey Smith before Andy Reid snagged him with a six pick. He was ALL SEC ,then a heart condition threatened his future. He returned to form and KC took an Informed risk. His father is Trey,Sr. a former NFL player. At #15 or preferably, a trade down, there should be Broderick Jones, who dominated last night , Mayer, Uzomah, Bergerson and Schmitz in the second. If they keep taking finesse guys for wide-zone, they will get bull rushed as they were Sunday night.

0 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

January 09, 2023 at 05:35 pm

I love Jones but hes always banged up and the fumbles in big spots have absolutely killed this team. He plays an easily replacable position and should be replaced imo. They should really only have 2 goals at this point: 1) find a way to move on from Rodgers so Love can play and 2) move on from other expensive veterans so they can get the cap right and be spenders in 2024 when the salary caps will explode. Nothing else matters right now. Long term approach only at this point. Sorry Jonesey, but the youth movement has to begin.

3 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

January 10, 2023 at 03:49 am

Cap:

+6M: Bakh
+10M: Jones
$16M

-$4.6M: Yosh:
-$3.2M: Nixon
-$3.5M: Tonyan
-$4M: Lazard
-0.4M: Hollins
$-15.7M

Need $42M more.

0 points
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MDPackfan's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:06 am

I said the same thing all season. Love could have won 9 games and made the playoffs with this team. Rodgers played beloa avergae. The team had to win games that were harder because of him and his arrogance. Hopefully we can trade him post 6/1 for a Vet Defensive player and 2024 draft picks. Im thinking trade with the Colts for Buckner and a 1st and 3rd, and 4th in 2024 might work.

11 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:02 pm

Colts would never do that. I think Rodgers may retire, based on what he said.

0 points
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croatpackfan's picture

January 09, 2023 at 04:04 pm

Well, his statement that Packers need only few players does not bring that retirement decision as real.

He playing with the retirement idea for some time. And coming back. This story starts to smell a lot as Favre story was. Just with one interesting and significant difference - Packers do not have GM with Ted Thompson balls, talent and knowledge. Mark Murphy is IDIOT. And that is the main problem with Packers.

Aaron Rodgers keeps all the keys and number combinations of this franchise. That is the fact.

2 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

January 09, 2023 at 05:36 pm

PC500, never underestimate Jim Irsay's cocaine addiction.

4 points
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Since'61's picture

January 09, 2023 at 08:29 pm

Cookie for RTS! Thanks, Since '61

1 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:54 am

Dark days a coming!

April 27th for the 2023 draft is going to be a looooong time from now. Hang in there everybody as these next several months will test all of us hard core Packer fans. The big question is what is going to happen this offseason? This will be front & center here at CCTV possibly all the way up to June 1st.

6 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

January 09, 2023 at 09:47 pm

Life rolls on, get better. Win the Big Game. The Evidence File tells us to separate from the Silage committee, or continue suffering. Trade some of these players for picks, including his #1 from 2022. A.Jones has proven he is not the bell cow and you cannot put it on the ground when moving into scoring position. Not for 20M in 2023.

0 points
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4thand10's picture

January 09, 2023 at 01:39 pm

Couldn’t agree with you more KTSOY.

3 points
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Matric1's picture

January 09, 2023 at 01:54 pm

I agree with what you are saying.i definitely our G.M. have run his course...Plus we have to find a new play caller...our coach has to turn it over to a innovater...I have said for the last 10 years we had the best Q.B. and did not give him the best .weapons... now it may be to late..

4 points
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Minniman's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:07 pm

I'd argue that the market (number of suitors) for trading Rodgers has grown considerably this coming year over last year.

A number of teams who were still evaluating their QB's decided to pull the pin.

As Dobber posted, it takes 2 to tango, so while the draft pick haul may not be as large as it potentially could have last year (emphasis on potentially), the cap freedom would be welcome (assuming that he restructures).

I really see the stars aligning to send Rodgers to LV. They're a "big market" team that is under-performing relative to talent. Trading Carr would take their cap space up to about $60M. McDaniels isn't geared to coach a rookie QB through their growing pains (he runs a complex system that requires veterans).

-3 points
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jurp's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:58 pm

Carr for AR, straight up? Hell no.

4 points
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Coldworld's picture

January 09, 2023 at 04:03 pm

Not with Carr’s contract. The issue is freeing the books now. After listening to Rodgers, it’s evens he saves us from ourselves, but if he doesn’t then it’s find a taker and don’t worry what we get. That ship sailed.

2 points
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Minniman's picture

January 10, 2023 at 02:42 am

When I get motivated I'll compile a more detailed list in a post of teams that hate their current QB situation.

Off the top of my head, NYJ, NYG, Indy, NOLA, Car, LV, ATL, WAS, HOU are 100% in the market for a new QB.

Then there's Cousins who's brittle, Tua in MIA who's regrettably a head knock or 2 away from forced retirement. SEA who's running Geno Smith!!! Ryan Tannerhill in TEN who no longer has Derrick Henry to hide behind. Mac Jones in NE who's clearly not Brady 2.0.

As a bonus, I'll add in PIT, who have a better roster than this year showed, and like NE, Kenny Picket is not Big Ben 2.0.... and Tomlinson and Belichick would know how to control and get the best out of Rodgers.

So that's 15 or 16 teams for whom Rodgers is a bona fide upgrade to their current situation.

Next step is to correlate this with Salary Cap space.... but I think that the market for Rodgers is stronger than you think CW...... Personally, I think that Rodgers has a couple of decent years left in him in the NFL.

.... sadly, he's just stale now in GB and needs a change of scenery to get the best out of himself for the remainder of his career (as painful as that is to write).

0 points
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Minniman's picture

January 10, 2023 at 02:17 am

Channeling my inner Jim Mora here....

Carr? Don't talk about—Carr?! You kidding me? Carr?!

He can go to NYJ, NOLA or Indy for my money!

No, I was just thinking about a team that would be tempted to trade a reasonable number of picks to get Rodgers.

As I mentioned above, there's a number of teams who've given a rookie or journeyman a couple of years and its clearly not working out.

I can just see that <sadly> Rodgers is stale now at GB at both parties need a change to get the best out of the next couple of years.

0 points
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Packers1985's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:44 pm

I 100% agree with the sentiment. But i doubt that the broncos would've given that much for an Aging Qb like rodgers with max of 3yrs of service. I think they panicked based on rodgers decision to stay with Packers and also Wilson is younger qb with atleast 5 years of service so the broncos gave out that many picks.

Other than that yes we would've definitely gotten bunch of top 50 or 90 picks and would've been in a better shape in terms of cap as well as the roster talent.

3 points
3
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Coldworld's picture

January 09, 2023 at 04:05 pm

They hired Hackett. I think you are wrong, but I’ve no proof. Wilson came with a number of question marks over his play Rodgers didn’t have. I think it’s highly likely they offered similar, and that’s a vast amount more than we get now, if anything.

1 points
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Minniman's picture

January 10, 2023 at 02:52 am

"Wilson came with a number of question marks over his play Rodgers didn’t have"

I know that I'm stating the obvious here, but run-heavy QB's have a lower life expectancy in the NFL. I see Josh Allen hastening his demise with the hits he's lining up for. Lamar Jackson is now entering that phase where his decisions are haunting him.

Re Rodgers, I think that the cap space is equally as important now as a 1st round pick or 2. There's a couple of players that need to be retained that Love will need around him.

-1 points
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Packerpasty's picture

January 10, 2023 at 12:45 pm

Allen can't possibly keep up with all the hits he takes running the ball...soon or later he will be injured and miss lots of time....count on that, I don't care how big he is...

0 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

January 09, 2023 at 05:30 pm

Knock, its not too late to go after Fant. Hes gonna want a nice contract and the seahawks barely use him. Gute should offer a 3rd rounder since he always misses with those picks anyways. Wouldnt be mad if they even offered a 2nd rounder. Fant is a specimen with sticky hands and has become a pretty good blocker. Checks all the boxes. Watson, Doubs, and Fant would be a hell of a 1-2-3 punch for Love to grow with.

3 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 09, 2023 at 06:03 pm

Return to Sanity,
Boy I had a draft crush on Fant coming out of Iowa for the 2020 draft and if he was available for a 3rd rounder, or even a 2nd rounder I'd nab him. That would be getting value! The other thing is you hear over and over the TE position is one of the most difficult positions to learn taking several years to develop. Hell, Fant is ready to go vs drafting a TE who might not contribute much for a few years. The Vikings got Hockensen for very little, so you are probably right about Fant and what it might take. Personally, I'd rather pick up a top WR in round 1 breaking from my normal get a big body for offense, or defense in round 1.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

January 09, 2023 at 09:53 pm

There are prospects in the second rd of the '23 draft comparable, or better. He was moved for a reason.

2 points
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Ima Payne's picture

January 09, 2023 at 06:06 pm

Ya you cant tell me had we shuttered Rodgers to Denver and all those picks that this team wouldnt be where they are today with Love.
Better yet what if we ended up say 7 and 10. Look at the picks this year to fill those holes and what we would have going into next year.
My difference is I wanted him gone two years ago while his value was high for higher picks.
There is no way this team can avoid a rebuild. Gutt cant draft enough players to turn this around when you have talent going out the door who are trained and ready to contribute to other teams.

3 points
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13TimeChamps's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:19 am

Regarding the above photo:

Quay Walker seriously needs to grow up...fast. The officials now have a "book" on him, so to speak. His reputation will precede him every game next year until he cleans up his act. There will be no "benefit of the doubt" on close plays. And he has no one to blame but himself. Those were really bad penalties. Two ejections in one season is almost unheard of.

It's a shame because he has the look of a really good player. I hope he figures it out.

17 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:31 am

I agree!

I also think Quay plays with a lot of intensity and is wound up tight. Each of those two penalties were little pushes after a play & he reacts. While dumb reactionary moves I do not think he is a cheap shot guy like Suh. He will learn and mature but I do think he is susceptible to a smart veteran player taking advantage of him in key moments next year. They will test him for sure!

10 points
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2
13TimeChamps's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:44 am

He seemed truly apologetic after both incidents, so that's at least encouraging. Maybe he needs a veteran player to take him under his wing next year. He's only 22 so he has time to figure it out, but there will be a very short leash from the officials next year.

7 points
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dblbogey's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:28 pm

He did step up and take responsibility for his action with no excuses. That's rare these days. He was having an excellent game, which is encouraging.

6 points
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Guam's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:38 am

That is a really good point 13TC. He will have a bullseye on him next year.

And what knucklehead downvoted you for that comment? It was pretty factual.

5 points
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13TimeChamps's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:56 am

Anonymous downvotes without even an attempt at a reasonable rebuttal aren't worth being concerned about. I don't even pay attention to them to be honest.

3 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

January 10, 2023 at 03:52 am

I only worry about downvotes if I don't have enough of them.

0 points
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greengold's picture

January 10, 2023 at 09:47 am

Didn't want you to worry...

L
O
L
!!!

Rock ON, TGR!

0 points
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MainePackFan's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:42 am

13, you're right, He's very immature even for a 22 year old. Too bad, because his play on the field has improved dramatically as the year went on. I thought Walker played a great game up until that completely bonehead penalty.

Wyatt concerns me a little too. He's older, and if I'm not mistaken, it was him that chest bumped the guy after Walker pushed him.

1 points
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Philarod's picture

January 09, 2023 at 01:44 pm

Agreed.
And while he's a promising player, I hope he'll be suspended for several games to start the season next year. What he did last night just can't happen.

-2 points
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Ima Payne's picture

January 09, 2023 at 01:57 pm

Most web sites are calling for the Pack to cut him. He has worn out his welcome as an NFl player. I agree. Its painful but you need to send a message this wont be tolerated. He made a fool out of the packer team and shamed the fans.
In the past Ted wouldnt take bad boys with reputations and kept them off the team.
LeFleurs little or were sorry he shouldnt do that aint cutting it. It shows lack of back bone. Lack of respect for the game.

-10 points
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jurp's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:00 pm

Cutting him would be idiotic, so I expect the team to actually do it.

He'll be signed by the Texans or Bears as soon as the metaphorical ink has dried on the paperwork.

0 points
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2
Coldworld's picture

January 09, 2023 at 07:00 pm

He’s not Suh. He’s not the QB who took out the defender from behind away from play. He didn’t set out to possibly end a career or cause serious injury. He committed a boneheaded thing but hardly a physically damaging one. Get over it and hopefully he’s got the message. On a well run team he would have after the last one and we would have yanked him before NY did if he didn’t.

2 points
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bjkdad44's picture

January 09, 2023 at 08:49 pm

Shamed the fans?…. Sooooo what????

0 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

January 10, 2023 at 04:06 am

You are not a packer fan. Of course you want GB to cut its first round pick.

This isn't that big of a deal. It was dumb.

2 points
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Ima Payne's picture

January 09, 2023 at 06:08 pm

I would hope the team fires him. Send a message to the fans, the league and the viewers that the packers org does not tolerate this and this was a second occurance.
Ya we give up a one but look at the what we gain in respect from the above mentioned. Sometimes its got to be more then just football.

-2 points
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Tundraboy's picture

January 09, 2023 at 07:59 pm

"Sometimes its got to be more then just football."

I agree but sadly that ship sailed years ago. And with this team the failure of the coaches getting in his face and literally yanking him and Douglas off the field was a greater embarrassment.

This coach is not representative of what the Packers stand for unless it's Disney running the show.

3 points
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Since&#039;61's picture

January 09, 2023 at 08:35 pm

Good and accurate comment Tundraboy. The coaches should have pulled him off the field as soon as it happened. Had the coaches stepped in and sat him it may have saved him from being disqualified.

MLF claims that it is not up to his standards but he left him out there until he was ejected. What was MLF waiting for. Terrible job. Thanks, Since '61

4 points
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Tundraboy's picture

January 10, 2023 at 05:12 pm

Thanks 62 This team needs a kick in the ass and MLF is not the guy. His big game track record itself is an embarrassment.

2 points
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bjkdad44's picture

January 09, 2023 at 08:47 pm

They should use the soccer rule… red card means you sit out next game… would be a deterrent… imho

0 points
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BAMABADGER's picture

January 09, 2023 at 09:50 pm

That is an excellent idea.

1 points
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SinceLombardi's picture

January 09, 2023 at 09:31 pm

He’s an ignorant hothead . He embarrassed the entire franchise and it’s fans TWICE. Send Walker and LaFluer packing. Take Murphy and Gutekunst with you.
To say this team has good building blocks is a joke.
None on the O- line that gets caved against physical fronts —- as we saw again last night.
Defensively? Our number one pick COULD NOT BEAT OUT DEAN LOWRY. … Alexander, our best player is good not great. The safeties suck.. so do the corners . Campbell is a journeyman.
Watson is a good talent with questions about his hands and injury history. Doubs looks average. Not much I see to count on considering the competition.
But the worst part is the same two idiots will be picking and coaching them in 2023

-2 points
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Guam's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:20 am

While the author has a fair point, I am pretty sure he isn't aiming high enough in the organization when it comes to football philosophy. There certainly appears to be a schism between Murphy and Gutekunst as to the direction of the team. Gute's drafting clearly indicated a youth movement (including at QB) with an eye to the post Rodgers era. I have to assume the two were talking and Murphy at least tacitly if not overtly approved of this direction. Then Murphy reversed course when he resigned Rodgers to his latest contract. Murphy put the Packers in serious cap jeopardy when he did so, gambling that a last dance shot at a Super Bowl was worth it.

We all know how that turned out. The front office schism needs to get healed quickly and a direction for the team determined. A team can not be successful when it is moving in two opposing directions.

18 points
18
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:18 pm

I think that the "schism" was and is the single greatest detriment for the team going forward. I highly doubt that Murphy will feel any contrition for his part in this season long debacle. So the Board of Directors are on the clock - time for them to prove their worth. Otherwise we will be looking at variations of the same theme for years to come.

7 points
7
0
Guam's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:36 pm

If Murphy isn't second guessing himself after this season, he is an idiot. I didn't like his rationale when he signed Rodgers, but there was some logic to it. That logic is gone now. Time to move on and even Murphy should be able to see that.

3 points
3
0
croatpackfan's picture

January 09, 2023 at 04:12 pm

Guam you are irreparable optimist. Idiot will always be idiot!

4 points
4
0
Guam's picture

January 09, 2023 at 04:58 pm

All too true Croat.....:)

1 points
1
0
Tundraboy's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:31 pm

God lets hope so!

0 points
0
0
BAMABADGER's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:25 pm

Board of Directors?? The Packer Executive Board consists of Mark Murphy, 4 bank execs, the COE of Ariens (mowers/snow blowers), and a retired army officer. None understand a football organization. Murphy leads them wherever he wants. Of bigger concern is the number 43 which is the total number of active Packer Board Members. Of those, only 3; Johnnie Gray, George Koones, and Dexter McNabb understand football/football operations. Why in the hell do you need 43 board members? They should have a financial person to question/influence growth of Murphy's Packers Disneyland and spending, and keep 4 - 5 Packer/NFL alumni that have been successful in business after their football career. I believe change would occur in a timely, positive manner. Murphy should not have a vote except for a tie breaking executive business decisions. GPG!!!
.

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:22 am

LaFleur saying he wants Rodgers back tells you everything that's wrong with this team.

I think the Packers need to cut the head off the snake. That would include Mark Murphy, Matt LaFleur & Aaron Rodgers.

I'm on the fence with Gutekunst. Wonder how he would have handled things had he not had Murphy turning screws 3 years ago when AR's trade value was at its highest.

Might be best to give it all over to Sean Payton...

In BG's defense, there have been gaffes in drafting, FA, etc, but, very few. All the while hog tied by the monster money demanded by AR & friends.

Keep Lazard. Exceptional blocker. Trade AR if possible, jettison Bak, Cobb, Jones, and pound the draft in the trenches.

It's time the Packers board of directors get fucking busy to save the team.

21 points
27
6
OrganLeroy's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:36 am

While I think MLF needs to move on Sean Payton is not coming to Green Bay under any circumstances so better get that nonsense out of your head.

10 points
10
0
Packerpasty's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:52 am

rumors that Mike Vrabel in Tenn gonna get axed..dont know why that would happen but I like that guy

7 points
8
1
greengold's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:10 am

I really like Vrabel as a HC prospect in GB too. TEN would be foolish to let him walk. He'd be an enormous upgrade in GB, from what Ive seen.

4 points
5
1
barutanseijin's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:13 pm

Vrabel talks tough but his crew sailed right out of playoff contention, just like MLF’s.

0 points
2
2
PackyCheese500's picture

January 09, 2023 at 04:24 pm

Yes, but they were starting practice squad players on all levels of their defense and o-line. When their defense was healthy, they were among the best in the league.

That is also what happens when you trade AJ Brown, which Vrabel didn't have a say in, according to my knowledge

Plus, their OC, Todd Downing, is a terrible offensive coordinator.

If he gets fired from the Titans, the Packers would be foolish not to hire him as their next HC. A Dan Campbell-esque guy like him is exactly what this team needs.

0 points
1
1
Guam's picture

January 09, 2023 at 05:00 pm

And they were also without their starting QB (Tannehill injured).

0 points
0
0
Since&#039;61's picture

January 09, 2023 at 08:38 pm

GG I agree but unfortunately I don't think that Vrable or Payton are coming to Green Bay. Management just won't make the moves. I doubt that they will even move on Barry but we'll see. Thanks, Since '61

3 points
3
0
greengold's picture

January 10, 2023 at 09:54 am

Hence, we need to cut the head off the snake via the Packers Board of Directors. Otherwise, we ride out Rogers' destructive contract, continuing the Packers' downward spiral.

2 points
2
0
JohnnyLogan's picture

January 09, 2023 at 06:50 pm

Why is anyone discussing head coach hire? MLF isn't going anywhere. And according to MLF, neither is Barry. Unfortunately, in both cases.

4 points
4
0
JohnnyLogan's picture

January 09, 2023 at 06:50 pm

Why is anyone discussing head coach hire? MLF isn't going anywhere. And according to MLF, neither is Barry. Unfortunately, in both cases.

0 points
0
0
greengold's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:52 am

Payton wanted the job before the McCarthy hiring. I'm not saying it's going to happen now, but, he's a HC I would trust to steward the Packers back to playing Championship football again.

I know of his West Coast infatuations now, but... it wouldn't take much to get back to legit contention with the right experience at HC. Add to that this storied franchise in need of the proper guidance to winning SBs, and that impact upon a top HC looking to secure his career swan song.

2 points
4
2
Since&#039;61's picture

January 09, 2023 at 08:41 pm

I'm not sure that I want an HC who supported headhunting opposing players is a coach that I would want in Green Bay. I realize that Payton paid his dues but I would prefer others before Payton. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:10 pm

Try to bribe Kirby Smart .

2 points
2
0
PackyCheese500's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:59 pm

Payton is good, but my problem with him is that the Packers would need to give up a first round pick and more to get him from NO.

2 points
2
0
LambeauPlain's picture

January 10, 2023 at 09:00 am

I would consider Payton as a candidate to replace Howdy Doody Murphy.

0 points
0
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:38 am

I have been a big supporter of Gutey ever since he took over and the team went from two below 500 seasons to three seasons with 13 victories. Every year, he beats the bushes and comes up with FA's like Rasul, Smith, Campbell, Ford, Nixon, etc.

Rodgers has complained through proxies about Gutey not involving him in decisions. I believe whatever is going on with the Packer front office is above Gutey's pay grade and he is tip toeing the organization line when it comes to Rodgers. While I do not know anymore than anyone else I have some confidence Gutey if allowed would have made that trade last offseason.

15 points
15
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:33 pm

I would also like to see Gutekunst released from the overbearance of Murphy and the self-importance of Rodgers. So hoping for an act of divine (Board of Directors) intervention.

8 points
8
0
coolhand's picture

January 10, 2023 at 03:40 pm

Rodgers complaining about NOT being involved in personnel decisions would be, for me, THE main reason to trade him. I hated his hissy fit on draft day 2 years ago, but wanting to be involved in player decisions is going too far.

-1 points
0
1
dobber's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:07 am

"LaFleur saying he wants Rodgers back tells you everything that's wrong with this team."

It's not his decision--any HC would be a spectator on this kind of dialogue--and he needs to keep the door open on that working environment.

What else is he going to say?

9 points
12
3
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:03 pm

"What else is he going to say?"

Until AR retires in a cooperative manner, they damn well better say nice things about him in public. It makes sense if they do want to trade him, as well. The team can do very little without his cooperation. They can't trade him, can't cut him, and can easily get put in a box with an ill-timed retirement.

7 points
9
2
Coldworld's picture

January 09, 2023 at 01:29 pm

For which situation Murphy is solely responsible and, for that, should be moved on as having entered into a ludicrous agreement surrendering that level of control in a situation that, if not expected by him, should have been eminently foreseeable.

9 points
9
0
Johnblood27's picture

January 09, 2023 at 01:45 pm

100 thumbs up.

When the Team President gets involved in Football Operations other than hiring a GM he is creating a management nightmare of mixed signals and lack of accountability down the chain of command.

Murphy has repeated the same mistakes of Packer presidents past of getting his nose into Football Operations instead of only focusing on the financial future of the team. He should go kneel before Bob Harlan, ask forgiveness and then ask for advice on how to fix his hugely damaging mistakes.

7 points
7
0
4thand10's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:03 pm

Make him the highest paid back up in history. With the tea drinking and antics and not showing up in an off-season with new WRs… I would have just benched him. My job be damned.

2 points
3
1
greengold's picture

January 10, 2023 at 10:22 am

Oh, how I would have loved to see that kind of commitment to winning. I mean, what we had materialize in front of our 2022 eyes was the 'LaFleur Bends Knee to Nowhere Man," tact for a 4th predictably lost season in a row.

Not talking about W-L records, but, rather, Championship level football in the Green & Gold.

("It's been 87 years," gif enters the chat...)

0 points
0
0
croatpackfan's picture

January 09, 2023 at 04:21 pm

TGR, he might have his mouth shut on that issue!

Sometimes is better not to talk to much. And, if Packers will trade ACR, what kind of relation MLF can built with Jordan Love? He clearly said that he want somebody else.

I'll release MLF at the moment ACR is not on the team any more, even if that will be the only mistake/fault he is done. Much more easily knowing how bad HC he is.

0 points
0
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:30 pm

Whatever success LaFleur has gained - has been primarily due to his relationship with Rodgers. Without Rodgers, LaFleur becomes fully exposed - which does not augur well for any future successes. If nothing else, it is entirely in his self interest to remain as Rodgers valet.

4 points
5
1
jurp's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:06 pm

I love the comparison to a "valet"; extremely apt, and I can actually visualize MLF bringing AR a cup of tea (ayahuasca maybe?) and saying "Will there be anything else, sir?"

4 points
4
0
Heyward's picture

January 09, 2023 at 06:29 pm

Being Rodgers' valet already got LaFleur an extension probably worth $30M.

4 points
4
0
greengold's picture

January 10, 2023 at 06:31 am

True. It’s just the fact he’s repeating what I believe to be a lie. And, of course it’s PR - but, what is that saying?

It’s all a farce. Just like this 2022 season was a farce.

Everyone around the country can see that clearly.

My point is, that’s how totally fucked we are. And, who put us there?

Mark Murphy.

2 points
2
0
HarryHodag's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:22 am

Cutting the head off the snake might well mean all you have is a dead snake.

But it's clear that changes need to be made.

The worst thing that can happen is for the Board of Directors to get involved in anything other than supervising Murphy. There is documented evidence of 20 years of Packers dismal performance when the Board was actively involved in the day-to-day.

9 points
10
1
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:47 pm

No responsible Board should be involved in day-to-day decision making. Also I'll add no President should either - that being the responsibility of the General Manager and other Managers. However, Murphy has clearly inserted himself in the daily football operations - despite not being qualified to do so - which the Board of Directors has permitted - thus being complicit by their inaction.

10 points
10
0
jurp's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:07 pm

The BoD has only to get involved in one thing - FIRING MURPHY!

6 points
6
0
Leatherhead's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:22 pm

"""LaFleur saying he wants Rodgers back tells you everything that's wrong with this team. """

You've got to quit believing what people say. There's no benefit to LaFleur, or anybody, saying "We don't want him back." People say things all the time that aren't true. Stop believing them, and instead, think about the reasons why what they said is probably not true.

Gutenkunst, Murphy, and LaFleur are all under contract for next year. In fact, Gutekunst signed an extension right before the season. Most of our defense will return. A small improvement in our offense would have made us 10-7 this year. IMO, no need for a house cleaning. Put Love at QB, where we've been preparing him for three years. Strengthen the line, as you said. Get one more receiving target, either at TE or WR, and draft a replacement for Jones.

We should try to keep Lazard. Rodgers will be traded. We do not appear to benefit financially from trading Bakhtiari. Cobb is no more than our #6 guy next year, trading Jones would give us $10 million in cap relief.

0 points
3
3
jurp's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:09 pm

Rodgers will be traded only if Murphy ALLOWS him to be traded, and if Rodgers is okay with the trade partner.

Don't kid yourself. Unless Murphy retires or is (hah!) fired, or if the trader partner is LV, Rodgers will be back.

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

January 10, 2023 at 07:49 am

No. I wasn’t thinking in such base terms, my friend..! Thanks, tho.

The whole point is, “Here we are again, playing - this - PR game, which as everyone knows, is a lie.”

Seen many comments chiding the mention of a trade. Yeah, that’s preposterous too, but, we’ve all seen that one team/HC who thinks, “I can fix him.” Eh, it’s a possibility, just like getting hit by lightning.

Mark Murphy has turned all of this into one massive farce. I’ve been consistent with my statements over the last two days on this. Matt LaFleur running this same, exact, tired garbage out to the media, for a 3rd year in a row, says it all.

The BoD better get their freakin’ poop in a group. Tout de suite.

At least Ted Thompson held to the maxim and knew to get rid of players a year early, rather than a year too late.

Gutekunst knew this too, but Mark Murphy is a fucking dipshit, and forced his own will upon the situation, which could sink the Packers - if - the Board of Directors fails to act.

1 points
1
0
Since&#039;61's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:45 pm

Greengold!!! It’s good to see you back here at CHTV. I hope that all is well with you. I’m looking forward to reading more posts regularly from you.
Thanks, Since ‘61

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

January 10, 2023 at 06:44 am

Great seeing all of my friends here too, Sincey!

Yeah, it’s been such a predictable shit show, that I thought, “what is there, really, to talk about?”

Lol.

Reminds me of my nephew when he was little. Went to visit his grandma In Florida with his mom, sister, and all his aunts/girl cousins for a week. After his return, I asked, “so, what did you do down there?”

His reply: “I stalled.”

Omg. Yeah. That’s what we’re doing as Packer fans until we are out from under AR’s horrific contract, he retires, suffers a career ending injury, or is traded... we are stalling.

2 points
2
0
Since&#039;61's picture

January 10, 2023 at 09:13 am

Agree GG. When I was in the service we called a total mess like this a "cluster fxxk." 2023 off season should be interesting. In the past I would have said it can't get any worse but we now know that it actually can get worse. Stay well. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

January 10, 2023 at 10:10 am

Exactly. We all saw it the moment AR signed the recent extensions. Plural. We're in the death spiral phase we all foresaw. years ago.

There are just a few actions available as options to circumvent this. One is Aaron Rodgers actually retiring. Two, the Packers trading AR, however unlikely that may be. Three, the Packers Board of Directors forces Murphy out, allowing Gutekunst to work whatever magic he can.

Shocking that Bob Harlan's successful "hands off" legacy regarding Football Operations could be lost on Murphy, unless one considers the rampant narcissism running wild at 1265... sadly, unchecked.

0 points
0
0
Since&#039;61's picture

January 10, 2023 at 10:17 pm

Personally I'm hoping that Rodgers choose to retire. First it is time and second while he can still play effectively he can't carry the team any longer or overcome the numerous other weaknesses on team starting with some of the coaching decisions or lack of decisions. Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:34 am

The roster was built for Love, cap shedding and the future. Murphy chose otherwise. He should be the target not Gute, who may yet have pulled off a great draft. The sad fact is that the ensuing season reached a predictable outcome and also highlighted the inadequacies of the coaching staff further. The organization needs to move on, but Gute is the pillar least central to that.

15 points
19
4
greengold's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:44 am

Agree 100%. We did see this coming. Years ago. Mark Murphy has been an utter disaster in terms of vision for winning Championships.

LaFleur stating he wants AR back next year points more to his already apparent lack of control as HC. Was that PR speak? It might have been...

7 points
10
3
Ima Payne's picture

January 09, 2023 at 01:54 pm

Gutt may be the worst GM in football. Stokes was too stupid to learn to play corner. Gary, was a two choice who Gutt waisted a 12 pick on. Amari was a three pick, again not smart enough to learn Cobb's job as slant receiver. Walker a one pick struggled all year at line backer and Wyatt is a god awful over weight slob they couldnt let play until the very end of the season.
Gutt made terrible picks all along not taking into consideration the interllegence of these guys.

-7 points
2
9
jurp's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:10 pm

Bullshit

7 points
7
0
Lphill's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:34 am

imagine if Rodgers had a Kelce or Kittle.

3 points
8
5
Packerpasty's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:54 am

Packers got Tonyan, who looks slow as molasses....huge upgrade needed at TE

6 points
7
1
dobber's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:08 am

This team hasn't known how to feature a TE for ages.

10 points
10
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:33 pm

Although there was a glimpse of what was possible before Tonyan tore his acl.

4 points
4
0
harleycops's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:16 am

Imagine if the Packers had a Mahommes or Allen.

3 points
6
3
Philarod's picture

January 09, 2023 at 01:52 pm

Until this season (age or an off-year due to several factors?) I would take Rodgers over either of them. He was back-to-back MVP the last couple years preceding this, and without anyone with the speed of Tyreek Hill or anywhere near the guts and savvy of Jason Kelce.
I don't see Allen...yet...in the class of Mahomes or Rodgers (pre-2022 anyway).

2 points
3
1
JohnnyLogan's picture

January 09, 2023 at 07:01 pm

Mahomes and Allen are young. When they're done they'll both be considered better than Rodgers each with more SB rings. Rodgers may not have had Tyreek Hill but he had Davante and there was a period when he had Jordy, Jennings, Driver, Jones, Finley, Cobb... that ain't chopped liver.

0 points
1
1
NitschkeFan's picture

January 09, 2023 at 07:32 pm

Mahomes and Allen are young and look like they will have long great careers. But....

lets look back to when Rodgers had just finished his 4th season as a starter - the team had just gone 15-1 after having won the SB the prior season. He was about to be awarded his 1st MVP for that season. At that point in time it looked like the Packers were going to win a half dozen Super Bowl's in Rodgers time.

He certainly followed those seasons with many excellent years and won many games and many more awards. But who would have thought he would not even appear in another SB?

So far Josh Allen has zero SB's, and zero MVP's. I expect him to get both in the near future but who knows?

Mahomes has 1 SB so far and 1 MVP (maybe win his 2nd for this season?). I expect him to get more of both also, but predicting the next 10 years is really not that easy.

I'm an old guy and I know the rules have changed so that Offence is much more important that it used to be. But most multi-Championship winning QB's had a top 10 Defense during their championship runs. Will the Bill's and Chief's be able to consistently put together a top 10 D if their QB's take up a huge chunk of the salary cap?

2 points
3
1
croatpackfan's picture

January 10, 2023 at 05:31 pm

"lets look back to when Rodgers had just finished his 4th season as a starter - the team had just gone 15-1 after having won the SB the prior season."

And than laid the rotten egg in the divisional round....

0 points
0
0
NitschkeFan's picture

January 10, 2023 at 06:23 pm

Croat, that is exactly my point. At the end of week 16 when he stood 15-1 after winning the SB and putting together a fantastic season (QB Rating 122 !!!). Did you predict he would "lay an egg"? None of us predicted that.

So my response to the guy who wrote so assuredly that Allen and Mahomes will have greater careers that Rodgers was essentially pointing that out. Everything can look fantastic today but predicting the next 10 years of Mahomes or Allen's career is just guesswork.

0 points
0
0
croatpackfan's picture

January 11, 2023 at 05:12 am

I agree with you NitschkeFan. Nobody knows what future will bring to anyone. All you can do is to prepare yourself for unimaginable and develop your capability to wrestle with difficulties.

First step in that preparation is to be introduced to yourself truthfully. To understand own motives and own weaknesses and to find the way to overcome them. The main problem is that history tells us about how different people solving same situation. The path to that is very different, but one thing is common to specific type of personality.

If you are not sure in yourself and your capabilities, you will find the way to cover your insecurity in your self. Especially if you are very talented in some fields of human activities. You develops your Ego to the enormous proportions, to the level that you have few friends only (mostly the ones that are complete persons very sure what they are) and lot of others who are afraid of yourself.

That insecurity or doubts in yourself will be exposed from time to time, despite you are trying to hide, through your acts. And that would be exposed almost exclusively on the most important moments and on the largest stage for you. And, you'll fail.

First time I noted that exposure for ACR was at one moment during that 2011 campaign - loss to lowly Kansas City Chiefs (at the time). They had 0 victories and it was 13th week of the season. Many predicted they will repeat famous 0-16 record Lions "achieved". ACR made so many mistake in that game and played awful. Everybody asked what is going on. I'm certain now what was that. He was afraid of the loss vs lowest team on his path to "perfect" season. And that fear blocked his talent and his intellect, so his body was not properly responding.

After that game, and when questioning what happened were diminish quickly, ACR was back to his expected self and win out the rest of the games.

As first seed, Packers rested additional week. That week again rise the fear of inadequacy in ACR. And that fear was hard to control. Why? Because you do not know from where it comes and you can not believe it comes from yourself. Giants came to Lambeau Field and the rest is known history. I strongly suppose ACR was happy that everybody blamed bad D (what was one of the reason why Packers lost that game!) and rare were talking about his performance.

That kind of performances you can find in the clutch moments of many games Packers played. Sometimes he had excuse for bad performance (injuries!), some time his team mates saved him from himself, but when it comes to his hands to deliver, he rarely does.

I want to mention Seattle debacle as the clear show of both side bad QBing. Packers D made one mistake and ST made 2 mistakes. ACR had one INT and Russel Wilson had 5 (4 in the first half) INT. Packers got the ball inside the red zone 4 times (3 times on INT and 1 time on fumble (Seattle ST fumble!). So 4 times you got the ball on 1st and goal situation and what was produced? 3 FG and one TD! ONE f*cking TD. Again small at the ultimate finish.

Some other losses I will not elaborate as only or prevalent his mistakes. Next season loss in playoff was prevalent on injury front. As it was 2015 and 2016 seasons was ridiculously complicated with many injuries that it is miracle Packers came that high they did. But it also give you the confirmation what I told you. ACR knew that nobody can blame him for losses, so he played not good, but excellent football.

Unfortunately, that is what it is. If there is a little bit more brain in Mark Murphy, he will trade ACR or push him to retirement. Maybe Jordan Love will be new "Scott Tolzien", but as well he can be the One 3rd time in the row. At this moment nobody knows...

0 points
0
0
Packers1985's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:26 pm

It would still be same as they would be under lafluer not their respective HC's. AndyReid took them to playoffs even with out Mahomes.

3 points
3
0
Point-Packer's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:47 am

I'm imagining them running the down the middle of the field wide open with their hands in the air and Rodgers lobbing it up to a well covered (insert WR here) down the sideline. Ball is either intercepted or it lands five yards out of bounce. Can't tell, its a bit foggy out.

10 points
10
0
Philarod's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:01 pm

I think you're overlooking how horrible TE play has been during the Rodgers era.
Finley had tools, but was inconsistent.
Jared Cook - for about 6 games - actually gave the team a lift (and he and Rodgers had good chemistry) and we let him go. He wasn't Gronk, Kelce or Kittle or even Mark Andrews or TJ Hockenson, but I think we should've found a way to keep him. (I don't recall the circumstances.)

Jimmy Graham looked over the hill, and didn't click here and M Bennett didn't even try.
Rodgers made Tonyan look like a borderline Pro Bowler two years ago, but injuries have taken away any relative burst he had

Who else was here? Richard Rodgers caught the Hail Mary, and he had good hands. He was also ponderously slow and broke about 2 tackles per year, if that.

It's just been a terrible group.

6 points
7
1
BirdDogUni's picture

January 10, 2023 at 07:29 am

"It's just been a terrible group."

Might be the understatement of the Century...

We had Quarless at TE on a winning Super Bowl team. That, in and of itself was a minor miracle. SMH

3 points
3
0
Ima Payne's picture

January 09, 2023 at 01:49 pm

They would be staying on the line and blocking to help the piss poor pass protection. I from the school if you have great run blockers, they aint so great pass blockers, not enough time any more to practice both with the new contracts.
This is a run first team and they practice mostly run blocking and they keep the te's on the line to help not catch passes.

2 points
2
0
Guam's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:35 am

The Packers not only have a talent issue on offense, but they have an attitude issue and a play calling issue. The O-line has played soft for most of LaFleur's tenure, allowing too much pressure on passing downs and too little movement in run blocking. The O-line has demonstrably folded in the last two NFCCG's and the play-in game against Detroit. The play calling has been questionable (bordering on the idiotic going for it on fourth and one in your own territory and then running sidewise) and the in-game adjustments non- existent.

The defense has been undisciplined with serious and persistent communication issues in the secondary; ridiculous unsportsmanlike conduct penalties when the team's season hangs in the balance; and consistent soft play against the run by the defensive line.

I would like to see a clean sweep of the coaching staff (with the possible exception of BIsaccia) this offseason. The Packers aren't going to get better until they are pushed into being a tougher, more disciplined team. And MLF and his guys aren't going to get that done.

25 points
25
0
wildbill's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:41 am

100% in agreement but sadly MLF, and maybe Barry, aren’t going anywhere. Management hates to admit to their mistakes

10 points
10
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:06 pm

You are probably right. I don't see Murphy wanting to pay-out the early termination of contracts - despite the optics.

4 points
4
0
Coldworld's picture

January 09, 2023 at 04:11 pm

More because he chose LaFleur and agreed to the ludicrous contract for Rodgers. He’s the culprit, if he accepts either is wrong then he’s the one who should go first. He should, but that would require a board he nominated for 20 plus years to actually do some thing: a massive conflict of interest.

2 points
2
0
Packers2020's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:50 am

ML and Gute are not going anywhere until Murphy is forced to retire at the end of 2024.

He just extended them until 2025.

4 points
5
1
Guam's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:33 am

Yeah, I know. (sigh)

6 points
6
0
jurp's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:14 pm

I strongly recommend that y'all do what I did this year - DON'T MAKE TIME TO WATCH ANY OF THE GAMES. I caught bits and pieces here and there, and didn't even watch the first half last night. Take the team out of your lives, and you will be much, much happier.

I was glad to see wins, sad to see losses, but nothing ruffled my feathers anymore, unlike the previous 55 years.

And with the Badgers now looking very, very interesting next year, I think I'll be following my alma mater a lot more closely...

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

January 10, 2023 at 09:34 am

I love watching football, I love player and tactical analysis, watching individuals develop. That said, it’s going to be extremely hard to drum up enthusiasm for a team led by this group. I admire your ability to detach. Sadly we are in an era where I believe Murphy through LaFleur will now start wasting Watson and mishandling and preventing talent development. This group could make a great team also rans.

2 points
2
0
Packerpasty's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:56 am

I also want a clean sweep...sadly this won't happen..MLF just don't hack it for me...good cheerleader though...in such an important game someone sure called some dumb plays

10 points
10
0
calabasa's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:52 am

How does the organization “get rid of Murphy?” Does the board have to vote him out?

8 points
8
0
HarryHodag's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:19 am

The board hires Murphy who hires people below him. I really chuckle at the idea that firing him will make the Packers better. You might not like the structure but he's pretty far removed from the day-to-day.

-5 points
2
7
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:59 pm

I disagree that Murphy is far removed from the day-to-day. Ever since the departure of McCarthy - when Murphy grabbed absolute power for himself - all decisions involving coaching, players and 'vision' have gone through him. His fingerprints are all over the corpse.

10 points
10
0
Coldworld's picture

January 09, 2023 at 04:14 pm

Murphy appointed the coach and extended Rodgers. He’s the GM in the final sense and up to his elbows in it.

2 points
2
0
croatpackfan's picture

January 10, 2023 at 03:59 am

I would say, up to his neck!

2 points
2
0
calabasa's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:16 pm

I get it, but I'm just asking what would the mechanism be to get rid of the all-powerful MM? He reports to the board, correct? So they would have to vote to fire him?

2 points
2
0
jurp's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:17 pm

They would have to vote to remove him, which won't happen because he's the reason the they're actually on the BoD to begin with.

We. Are. Fucked.

2 points
2
0
jannes bjornson's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:28 pm

A Putin like deal.

4 points
4
0
Coldworld's picture

January 09, 2023 at 04:15 pm

A board motion or one from the executive committee. His nominees, so don’t hold your breath.

3 points
3
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 09, 2023 at 07:05 pm

Definitely don't see a motion coming from the Executive Committee - who would have had to approve all of Murphy's decisions - thereby inferring their complicity. In all fairness, the E.C. should be on the same hot seat with Murphy. The Board has over 40 directors (not including Directors Emerti). I am reasonably certain that some may think less of Murphy than they did a year ago. However I expect that Murphy will be able to quell any potential unrest by waving his contract in front of them.

2 points
2
0
jurp's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:16 pm

"You might not like the structure but he's pretty far removed from the day-to-day."

Well, that's bullshit, given the org structure he put in place., If you truly believe that, I've got the Danial Hoan Bridge in Milwaukee for sale - we should talk,!

4 points
4
0
croatpackfan's picture

January 09, 2023 at 04:30 pm

jurp - biiiiiiig cookie!

1 points
1
0
LambeauPlain's picture

January 10, 2023 at 08:57 am

'What? MM is "pretty far removed from the day to day"? That's a laugher!

Murphy IS the acting GM and he is not very good at it. Gutey is simply MMs Administrative Assistant in charge of player acquisition. Murphy's goofy management by committee of the football operation has MLF, Ball, and Gutey ALL reporting directly to him.

Murphy is a micromanager and has made ALL the consequential decisions setting the Packers up for the big fall.

I would love to hear what the Wolfman thinks about this dysfunctional football management structure.

3 points
3
0
BobWellhoefer's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:02 am

Packer fans are going to be really angry at draft time when the Seahawks draft Denver's number one and number two in exchange for Russell Wilson. That could have been the Packers. This is pure malpractice and the entire front office should be fired for this.

16 points
16
0
greengold's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:11 am

Agree. Murphy is an idiot.

4 points
6
2
jurp's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:18 pm

As I stated at the time, it was textbook fiduciary malfeasance. Murphy should've been fired for it.

5 points
5
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 09, 2023 at 07:13 pm

So a class action law suit? Please!

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

January 10, 2023 at 09:42 am

The Board should simply have refused to sign off on it for exactly those fiduciary reasons. Anyone sitting in a Board on merit (and these are leaders in the community) should have immediately seen the conflicts of interest in permitting such a change and rejected it on those grounds alone. That’s why there are few grounds for faith that this Board is either competent or actually taking its custodial duties seriously.

2 points
2
0
HarryHodag's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:17 am

Consider this: the Packers had to consider whether they could withstand another public relations nightmare like the Brett Favre exit. It's easy to sit back and say 'fire everybody' but would you have been with the crowd to condemn the front office if they unloaded Rodgers a few years ago?

Fire everybody means the Packers have evolved into the Bears. I still think they could be a playoff team with a few tweaks, but Rodgers and pals have to go first.

-3 points
3
6
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:43 am

"I still think they could be a playoff team with a few tweaks, but Rodgers and pals have to go first."

Agreed! The cupboards are not bare, as there are quite a few good players already on this team. A few tweaks and 'hopefully' we have a talented Jordan Love who can lead them and this team may surprise many of us in the next couple of years. I do think the timing will be difficult because I see significant growth with all the teams in the Division, and yes....even including Chicago with their high draft choices and salary cap. The Packers will have a lot of work cut out for them these next several years.

2 points
3
1
jurp's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:19 pm

Tweaks? With our salary cap situation? Hah! Unless you want to mortgage the future yet again - and we know how well that works.

3 points
3
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 10, 2023 at 12:36 pm

The first & major tweak is dealing properly with the AR situation once and for all!

1 points
1
0
4thand10's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:16 pm

Just last year, they should’ve unloaded him last year…to prevent exactly what will happen again…a Favre situation. So what if he goes to another team and lights it up for a year. You don’t handicap an entire team and young promising WRs for ONE player. I want him gone or benched to be a back up…either way. This last game looked just like McCarthys offense yet again. And that’s all on ACR.

2 points
3
1
Coldworld's picture

January 09, 2023 at 04:20 pm

Sometimes standing immobile verses the onslaught of reality sounds logical. It isn’t, but it reassures until decapitation perhaps.

3 points
3
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

January 09, 2023 at 07:15 pm

This brings back fond memories of the French Revolution.

3 points
3
0
BirdDogUni's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:29 am

The perfect storm:

Rodgers retires, decides to come back, traded to Jets, retires again, then signs with the viks... Let the games begin! History repeating itself can be fun. Lol

3 points
6
3
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:35 am

I'd be totally okay if history repeats itself BirdDog as the Packers won the 2010 SB just a few years after Favre exited, as well as had a lot of winning seasons following. I'd take that! :)

4 points
4
0
stockholder's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:32 pm

Trade Jones- comparison.
Wendell Tyler 1984 SF 13 fumbles

0 points
1
1
UdderApocowlipse's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:09 pm

BP here... let's collectively will (brew) this storm into existence!

0 points
0
0
splitpea1's picture

January 09, 2023 at 11:40 am

What is this? You need talent on both sides of the ball to win if you expect to contend. This team needed a major infusion of talent on the defensive side when Gute took over, and he wasn't wrong to invest capital there. Now it's time to do some offensive rebuilding (yes, "rebuilding"), hopefully with a new coaching staff. Patience-- rebuilding takes time! But it would also help if Gute would take into consideration the high floor as much as he does the high ceiling when it comes to selecting prospects.

7 points
8
1
Leatherhead's picture

January 09, 2023 at 02:47 pm

Well, we dress out 21 offensive players on game day. Assuming Rodgers is not with the team next training camp, that would leave us with

Love and his backup.
10 offensive linemen: Bakhtiari, Jenkins,Myers, Runyan, Nijman, Tom,Newman, Rhyan, Walker, Jones. We might only have 9 dressed.

And 9 Skill Position Players: Watson, Doubs, Toure, Dillon, Deguara. Maybe Lazard, maybe Tonyan, Maybe Lewis. Maybe (probably) some new guys)

So I don't see a lot of "rebuilding". We keep what we have, including Lazard and Patrick Taylor. We add a TE and an RB.

And we're not going to have to spend heavily on defense, either. Clark, Slaton, Wyatt, Gary, PSmith, Campbell, Walker, Enagbare, Alexander, Savage, Stokes, and Douglas should all be back, and we can bring back Nixon and Ford. We have Tariq Carpenter. That's already 14 of our 21, right off the top of my head and I'm sure I've missed somebody.

"""""You need talent on both sides of the ball to win if you expect to contend""".

We finished 8-9 and came within one play of making the playoffs. I would say that's contending.

I think it's insanity to talk about firing the HC who was just awarded an extension a few months ago for finishing 8-9, bring his 4 year totals to 47-19, making the playoffs 3 out of 4 years, and going to the Championship game twice.

It's not going to happen. Neither is Gutekunst or Murphy going anywhere. The organization will take a little time and let things sink in and share thoughts and then move forward. There isn't going to be any radical shakeup of the organization.

As always, it's about winning the division, because winning the division means you are in the playoffs, at home, the first week. 100% of Super Bowl winners qualified for the playoffs. To win your division, you have to beat your division opponents and Detroit......the weakest defense in the league....put our offense in a submission hold twice, and that's why we had a losing season and missed the playoffs. Beat your division opponents, defend your home field. We got swept by the freakin' Lions and scored 9 and 16. That's where the problem was, that's what they'll move to address.

-7 points
0
7
jurp's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:22 pm

Making the playoffs is a fool's goal. It has worked out SO WELL for use over the past 12 years, hasn't it.

The goal is a CHAMPIONSHIP, not a playoff loss EVERY FUCKING YEAR SINCE 2010.

7 points
7
0
Leatherhead's picture

January 09, 2023 at 07:23 pm

How would you feel if you hadn't made the playoffs since 2010? Or won a playoff game? Because that's the reality for many teams. How'd you like to be in a division where one of your opponent just kicks you year after year after year?

First step to the Championship is making the playoffs, and the best route to that is to be better than the three teams in your division, and to win at home against them, and hopefully on the road, too.

The Vikings have won 3 playoff games since 2000. The Bears? 7. The Lions? 0, of course. The Packers? 17!!!! That's nearly twice as many as the rest of the division put together. (You might want to recheck the numbers,because tequila is involved, but they're close).

In those 22 years, Brady has won a bunch, and a few other franchises have won two (Giants, Ravens, Steelers, Bucs, ) So although I'd love it if the Packers won it all every year, I'm enough of a realist to know that's not realistic, so I think have one goal that you're going to fall short of most of the time is kind of a poor plan.

-1 points
0
1
Coldworld's picture

January 10, 2023 at 09:48 am

This isn’t high school. It’s not a question of doing the best you can with what you have. This is pro sports. There are 2 objectives. Money/capital value for the owners and winning. The two are linked, but in the case if the now enormously financially secure Packers, with no owner, the emphasis should be on trying to win it all and keep the small market relevant nationally to ensure TV coverage and focus to maximize the benefit to the community. Playing to be average gets you nowhere. We should be striving to be the best team and the best coaching staff in the league every year.

2 points
2
0
splitpea1's picture

January 09, 2023 at 03:57 pm

Much of this is ludicrous (with the exception of the defense comment), so it hardly even warrants a response. Your definition of "contending" is rather expansive with that shining 8-9 record (apologies to this year's Bucs), and as always, it's about winning the Super Bowl, not a fricking four-team division. Is there something wrong with the 2010 Packers, 2020 Bucs, and the 2007 Giants, to name a few?

Admit it: that Lions defense showed up to play. And with plenty high draft picks coming, they're only going to get better.

"100% of Super Bowl winners qualified for the playoffs." Well, duh....

4 points
4
0
stockholder's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:07 pm

Priorities- The DL, ILB, Wrs. ( Thats been ignored until 2022.)
RT- We had Wagnor, Turner, Etc . We had Lindsay.
And now we have Jenkins and Rookie Failures/experiments.
We had Adams, MVS, And St. Brown. You now have Drops.
If the packers traded for Hadl. Rodgers still should come Back.
MLF wants him back. But this has been about Gutey’s priorities.
All in; isn’t Love, Dillion and Deguara.
And I’ll bet you couldn’t trade Dillion for Williams. Now either.
Just wasted and traded picks! Sherman’s philosophy is back in again.
Decisions/uncertainty- No to Lazard, Tonyan and Lewis.
The decision has to be made to stop the can going down the road!
Jones is a Fumbling Machine.(5) Dillion is not a short yardage Back!
They are replaceable! Pocket the 20 mil by trading Jones and resign
DEFENSE! After you Fire Barry! Which should be priority #1.
The Lions own him.

-1 points
3
4
coolhand's picture

January 10, 2023 at 04:18 pm

Well stockholder, rookies take time to get used to the NFL. I remember Adams after his 2nd year everyone was calling for him to be traded because he dropped too many passes. He was able to adjust, will the new guys? Time will tell. I thought it was interesting when Rodgers said the team has some good young talent but it will take a couple of years for them to be outstanding pros. His contract will be over by then and he'll be gone. We never should have signed him last year. We should have let Love learn and grow with these young guys together.

1 points
1
0
Since&#039;61's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:49 pm

MLF already stating that he wants Rodgers back tells me that MLF is OK with how Rodgers runs his (MLFs) offense. It also tells me that MLF is not waiting with bated breath for Jordan Love to take over or may be that the Packers have decided to trade Love.

The author's point that the defense did not lose the game to the Lions is correct. However their coach did enable them to give up points that should have never happened.

I said from his hire that we needed to give MLF a chance as HC when he took over. Speaking for myself I have given MLF 4 seasons. To me that's more than a fair chance and based on what I've seen I am renaming him Matt LaChooch! (or MLC). He made two stupid field position decisions which enabled the Lions to score 10 easy points in a game which ended in a 4 point differential. WTF!!! If he punted prior to the first FG when the Packers had a 3-0 lead the Packers defense probably continues their shutout at least until the end of the first half after Jones' fumble. That fumble in and of itself was a least a 6 point turnaround as the Packers would have held the ball, run out the 1st half clock and kicked an FG to extend their lead to 12-3 at the half which should been 12-0 without MLCs decision to go for a first down by running Allen Lazard from his own 31.!!!???

MLCs coaching obviously does nothing to establish discipline play as both Douglas and Walker pulled off two of the most bone headed plays that I have ever seen in my 61 seasons of watching NFL/Packer football. Players reflect coaching, so what do those 2 plays tell us?

Then there are the 5 dropped passes which if caught probably result in a completely different game. Who again is in charge of the offense and the receiver coaches? That's correct, Matt LaChooch.

So yes, let's put some focus on the offense during this off season. Let's start by moving on from MLC. I've seen enough coaching incompetence, lack of urgency, poor fundamentals and stupid decisions. Thanks, Since '61

9 points
10
1
PackyCheese500's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:56 pm

Ben Johnson, the Lions OC, has been an intruiging HC candidate for me for quite a while. Maybe we hire him?

If Mike Vrable gets fired by the Titans, which I think there is a chance of, I would hire him too. There is a great leader

1 points
2
1
CheesedDeadHead's picture

January 09, 2023 at 05:25 pm

"To me that's more than a fair chance and based on what I've seen I am renaming him Matt LaChooch! (or MLC)"

I've been calling him Matt La Poodle for awhile (homage to the B52s) and it has stuck in my head.

The skies are charcoal grey,
It's a dreary downtown day,
But at the end of my thirty foot leash,
Is my little friend Matt.
Matt La Poodle is his name
And having a bad time on a crummy day is our game.

Matt Matt La Poodle
Matt Matt La Poodle

3 points
3
0
Since&#039;61's picture

January 09, 2023 at 07:22 pm

I like it! Works for me, stick with it. I've always enjoyed the B-52s Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
croatpackfan's picture

January 10, 2023 at 04:21 am

Well. at least he behaves like poodle

1 points
1
0
jannes bjornson's picture

January 09, 2023 at 10:47 pm

The sherman analogy regarding LaFleur, brought up by another poster, seems spot on. He should be moved out of the building along with his buddy, Barry. What would Vince do? We know the answer.

3 points
3
0
greengold's picture

January 10, 2023 at 10:25 am

I think "Matt LaChooch," has some legs.

chuckle.

chuckle.

chuckle.

0 points
1
1
TarynsEyes's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:53 pm

IT. IS. TIME.

Asking if it's time to question this team's priorities undermines the original chant, and places a cloud over a priority cloud already long in the tooth in overall decisions.

6 points
6
0
PackyCheese500's picture

January 09, 2023 at 12:54 pm

We have a promising WR corps. Watson is the real deal, and Lazard is a nice complimentary option. Give Doubs and Toure time. What we need is a real playmaking TE (who also can block). I hope we get Michael Mayer with the #15 overall pick.

1 points
3
2
Ima Payne's picture
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