Green Bay’s 2023 Draft Class Is Brian Gutekunst’s Best Work Yet
The last two draft classes could make up the spine of Green Bay's next Super Bowl contender.
By markoldacres
Every NFL general manager has hits and misses in the NFL draft, and too often the whiffs are picked apart, while the home runs are taken for granted. Brian Gutekunst is no exception.
There have been ups and downs for Green Bay’s GM across his six drafts to date, with at least a couple of success stories coming out of each class.
Back in 2018, Gutekunst’s first draft in the big chair, he hit in a massive way on his first pick, selecting Jaire Alexander 18th overall. The other highlight was the pick of Marquez Valdes-Scantling in the fifth round, who went on to be a solid contributor for four years.
A year later, another star defender was found in Rashan Gary at pick 12, as well as stud offensive lineman Elgton Jenkins in round two.
2020’s draft was always going to be defined by how the selection of Jordan Love panned out, and the resounding success of that pick now wipes away any misses from that year. Jon Runyan Jr., who the Packers chose in the sixth round, also proved a fine addition.
The following year is easily Gutekunst’s worst draft, with no player from the 2021 group standing out as a success, although it is hard to blame him for the chronic injury issues which have derailed Eric Stokes’ promising career.
Early returns on last year’s class, both early and late in the draft, are extremely promising,
Devonte Wyatt is starting to make the plays he had been threatening to, Christian Watson has shown flashes of elite potential at wide receiver, Sean Rhyan is rounding into form and looks in line for a starting spot at right guard next season.
On day three, Gutekunst found the starting tackle pairing which has protected Love so well this season, in Zach Tom and Rasheed Walker. He also picked Romeo Doubs and Kingsley Enagbare.
But in the 2023 group, Gutekunst appears to have done his best work yet.
There is a confusing notion floating around the Packers blogosphere that Lukas Van Ness has been a disappointing first round pick so far.
No doubt, it has been a learning curve for the former Iowa edge rusher, but it is strange to see his rookie year looked upon as anything out of the ordinary for a raw player like Van Ness, especially considering Packers fans watched Gary go through the exact same growing pains.
Van Ness has improved as the season has gone on, and there is nothing to indicate he cannot, or will not be a success in Green Bay.
From the second round on, Gutekunst looks to have hit at a spectacular rate on his 2023 draft picks.
Luke Musgrave’s lacerated kidney interrupted what was becoming a strong rookie season. His seam-stretching ability will be a weapon for the Packers for years to come. The growth of his fellow tight end Tucker Kraft has been extraordinary, and Green Bay has two legitimate starters at the position.
The additions at wide receiver have been even more impressive. Some questions were asked around the credentials of Jayden Reed as a second-round pick, but he has absolutely shined as a rookie, creating explosive plays week after week and fighting through injury for most of the year.
Dontayvion Wicks, drafted in the fifth round, has arguably been even more remarkable. He has the potential to be a true number one receiver in his own right. Wicks and Reed rank 24th and 35th among 128 qualified receivers at PFF this season.
Add in the pickups of Bo Melton and Ben Sims, and Gutekunst has essentially rebuilt the entire wide receiver, tight end, and offensive tackle rooms in two years. That group of first-and-second-year players has helped make up the 6th best offense this year by DVOA.
On defense, Karl Brooks and Colby Wooden have already shown themselves to be solid rotational defensive linemen as rookies. Brooks rubberstamped a terrific year with a late sack of Justin Fields, helping seal the win which sent Green Bay to the playoffs.
Seventh-round picks Carrington Valentine and Anthony Johnson Jr. have been thrown into the fire at different times, and while it has not always gone smoothly, they have displayed their ability to hang at the NFL level in their first seasons.
There are surely draft picks Gutekunst would love to have back over the years. Premium picks were spent on Josh Jackson, Darnell Savage, A.J. Dillon, and Josh Myers, with mixed results at best. The third-round curse only appears to have recently been lifted.
But his body of work in the draft has been largely positive, and with the 2023 class, Green Bay’s general manager looks to have set the team up to open a new window of Super Bowl contention.
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Mark Oldacres is a sports writer from Birmingham, England and a Green Bay Packers fan. You can follow him on twitter at @MarkOldacres
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Comments (120)
CheesedDeadHead
January 08, 2024 at 06:26 pm
"Premium picks were spent on Josh Jackson, Darnell Savage, A.J. Dillon, and Josh Myers, with mixed results at best. The third-round curse only appears to have recently been lifted."
Sometimes they miss and sometimes everyone misses. Josh Jackson was ranked pretty high on lots of websites and scouting reports. It's a crap shoot and players like Jackson just don't elevate when the game becomes faster and every player is like the best player on a college team.
I think Savage has been horribly misused by his DC, so hard to say how his progress would have been in a different scheme. With the Silos setup by Mark Murphy, a GM can draft players, but he has no control over how they are managed or mismanaged by the head coach and his staff.
Dillon was a case of a GM falling in love with the guy instead of picking the best player at that point. Even if Dillon wasn't there in the 3rd, would that have killed us to get a better player in Round 2 then see who's available in 3. Deguera has always been a head scratcher as he's never been used the way he was intended.
Myers was a mistake and that's on Gute. Whatever the reason to go that way instead of Creed Humphrey needs to be identified and written into gospel for what not to do again.
Personally I was thrilled with the 2022 and 2023 drafts. I think they both ended the 3rd round curse. Rhyan will be a very good Guard starting next year and remember he was only 21 when he showed up last year and probably needed some growing up. He showed up this year to play and he has shown he can be a starter. Kraft is just the easy call for breaking the 3rd round curse, but Rhyan was the real break.
SicSemperTyrannis
January 08, 2024 at 07:09 pm
Savage has played well this season. #28 had his mechanics messed with which resulted in him tripping over his shoelaces early in the season but he has caught everything thrown his way. How many players did he send out of the KC game for making the mistake of trying to tackle him?
Myers at C has improved. Notice they plan on him giving up ground in pass pro, but they make it work. As a run blocker sometimes he moves people off the ball. I want to see a high draft pick specifically for C, Zach Tom, and Myers all competing for the position this summer. And hopefully merit rather than favoritism decides it.
I can't call any of these picks a bust.
Stokes was on the field on 8/1 and very obviously FAST. His cuts and acceleration were not all out, which is just that much more impressive. Hopefully he returns to form, they were really banking on that this season.
DoubleJ
January 09, 2024 at 09:20 am
"I want to see a high draft pick specifically for C, Zach Tom, and Myers all competing for the position this summer."
There is no reason to move Tom from RT > C. OT is FAR more valuable than C and Tom has been very good at RT so moving him is a bad idea.
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 12:14 pm
Not really. Both the increase in the role of centers in diagnosing and adjusting in modern offenses and the increase in motion required of Centers. They are no longer the smartest but least athletic types necessarily.
Is Tom our best T? Then play him at left T. If not, can we find an upgrade at C that outweighs the net upside of moving Tom and blooding a new RT?
We should be looking to spend the spring and summer adding competition at C, at T and open our minds to where the best players fit best. Perhaps that’s Jenkins at C and a new G. Certainly we need depth.
Nijman will play elsewhere. Runyon is potentially gone if there is any market at all. We have no back up C. We have no back up T that’s ever played in season. Lots of new blood needed and lots of true competition.
DoubleJ
January 09, 2024 at 12:35 pm
"Is Tom our best T? Then play him at left T. If not, can we find an upgrade at C that outweighs the net upside of moving Tom and blooding a new RT?"
It used to be that the premier pass rusher on a team was lined up over the LT and the bigger guy over the RT. Over the past 5-10 years that has been changing and the pass rushers are lining up on both sides. RT is now becoming almost as important as LT. For the season Tom graded out as the #11 overall OT by Pro Football Focus. Since week 9, Walker has graded out at the #6 OT overall. Why would you want to move Tom to C when he is already nearly a top 10 overall OT (a position with more worth than C)?
I could see moving Jenkins to C and getting more competition at OG. I also can see drafting a new C. There are three really highly rated centers that could come out in the draft: Sedrick Van Pran (Georgia), Drake Nugent (Michigan), and Jackson Powers-Johnson (Oregon). I like Nugent or Powers-Johnson more than Van Pran. Van Pran turns 23 this year same as Nugent and Powers-Johnson will only be 21. That said Michigan has a history of good OL but the age of Powers-Johnson and stated size 6'3 320lbs is enticing.
stockholder
January 09, 2024 at 12:45 pm
Walker will be the starting LT.
He only needs to prove that in Dallas.
He's got all the reps at Lt now.
Runyon won't be resigned.
Look for a OT in the second rd.
PackAttackJack
January 09, 2024 at 05:17 pm
Tonyan??
jannesbjornson
January 09, 2024 at 05:50 pm
The LT will come from the 2024 draft. Walker vs. Demarcus Lawrence will tell the tale.
WestCoastPackerBacker
January 09, 2024 at 04:25 pm
Why mess with what is working? Tom is playing well at RT and Walker at LT. It's generally been much harder to find good tackles than to find good centers. Get some more competition at Center, get a swing tackle and yes, Tom can play interior if needed due to injury. We already knew that.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
January 08, 2024 at 08:50 pm
I think its worth noting that Savage was on a pro bowl trajectory pre-Barry.
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 06:44 am
Duplicate
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 07:03 am
It’s interesting that the play of our former safety revived considerably this year despite joining a bad team without a summer and then moving teams mid season. His rating for the regular season was 71.8 this year, more than 15 points above his last year under Barry despite two new coaches.
Amos was a stalwart and then seemingly “washed up” at 29 because he “lost a step.” That is odd for a S, which is a position older CBs have moved to when their speed declines. It never made much sense to me as an explanation.
It has always seemed as plausible to me that Amos’s decline/ premature aging for a S (he’s still 30) was more to do with how Barry uses safeties.
Constructing a D that asks players to do things they aren’t well equipped for is on the coach. It’s pretty clear to me that Barry got less out of Amos than others have before or since. Amos may very well have not wanted to return, certainly he’s now probably revived a faltering career will be on a roster next year.
Savage has been better this year, but although his usage has improved, he’s still often being asked to be something he’s not got the good of the scheme. Will he be our next former S to look much better away from Barry? I think there’s a good chance if that with the right scheme and DC.
GregC
January 09, 2024 at 11:28 am
I thought Amos played quite well in Green Bay--at least as well as we hoped for when he came from the Bears. He was not as good in 2022 and was wisely let go in favor of players who are much cheaper and at least as good. Amos generated little interest in free agency and eventually signed with the Jets, where he was beaten out for a starting job by a second-year undrafted player. Amos was mostly a special teams player with the Jets before being traded to the Texans on December 2nd. Since then, he's recorded 5 tackles. Some career revival. This is why players shouldn't be judged solely by their PFF grades.
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 12:22 pm
He was brought late in because one of their anticipated strengths, safety, was decimated by injury, to fill in. As young players they see as their future returned, his snaps declined, as expected. He asked for and was granted a release for that reason, not play. He signed with a team that turns out to be in the playoffs too, playing as a third safety in a rotation.
No, I don’t go on off alone. That was simply a comparative measure between his last year and this. since I was dubious of the conventional (your) easy answer last year, I have been quietly following how he fared this year. Right now, he looks much more like 2021 than the 2022 version despite being 30.
As to your point on cost, he’s playing at near vet minimum. Certainly comparable with Owens. Perhaps we still didn’t want him, but perhaps he didn’t want to come back. He’s been better over the year than any player we’ve started, definitely better than our third best. Definitely far better than he was in his last year under Barry.
stockholder
January 09, 2024 at 12:34 pm
Savage should be gone.
I'd sign Owens first if he plays good in Dallas.
And draft the position.
Gute keeps making the same mistakes in this secondary.
King was washed up.
Savage has too much trouble tackling.
And Stokes lost his make-up speed.
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 12:42 pm
Savage may be gone. He’s a UFA. If there is any market elsewhere then I doubt we will compete hard. Some team may see that Savage is good in a certain role and that fits their scheme. If Barry is still here then maybe it wouldn’t matter if we did compete. Either way you might be right.
As to Stokes, I don’t know if, like King, injury has slowed him. I will let time answer that. I do know that playing him in soft off coverages won’t work even if the speed is still there. He’s not that athlete. He’s about speed and length and preventing the catch not corralling after. Again, if we keep the D style Barry moved to after Stokes’ successful rookie year, probably just a misfit. So are all the other CBs, unfortunately.
stockholder
January 09, 2024 at 12:52 pm
Gute must get rid of the often injured,
PackAttackJack
January 09, 2024 at 05:10 pm
Including Aaron Jones??!! Really?
GregC
January 09, 2024 at 01:57 pm
So after several years as a starter who made good money, he is now a backup who is earning near the vet minimum. That doesn't sound like a career revival to me. It sounds like he is just hanging in there. If any team thought he was good enough to start for them, they would've signed him and made him their starter.
HawkPacker
January 09, 2024 at 05:58 am
Good post Cheese. The only real head scratcher for me was when Gute selected Myers over Humphrey. That was a bad choice. However, over the long haul, I think Gute has done better than most!
Bitternotsour
January 09, 2024 at 12:28 pm
put two pro bowl guards next to Myers (like Humphrey has) and get back to me about the preferred player.
Mister Chievous
January 08, 2024 at 07:02 pm
have to love the last two classes, especially 2023. i wouldn't call scantling a "solid contributor". a starter averaging less than two catches per game playing with two hof qbs is disappointing.
SicSemperTyrannis
January 08, 2024 at 07:12 pm
The MVS role contributes greatly to this offense. Even if it's never targeted. The opposing defense has to send their fastest guy in the hopes of keeping up, making it much more likely for someone else to get open.
#9 was an instant upgrade. Bo Melton should be used as his direct substitute when he's out due to injury. JL could then stay connected to that speed and be more likely to throw to him in stride when he returns to the field.
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 07:34 am
For a late 5th rounder, I’d say that MVS was a very nice pick up who added a dimension to this team. His value was in stretching defenses vertically and opening spaces elsewhere. We were better when he was out there for that. Without it we were pretty pedestrian.
DoubleJ
January 09, 2024 at 10:38 am
I said the same thing for years. In 2021 when MVS was injured the offense had their worst games.
WestCoastPackerBacker
January 09, 2024 at 04:32 pm
Look at MVS' stats from his years in GB. He was a solid contributor in his role, getting 6 TDs and close to 700 yards in 2020, while averaging over 20 yards a catch. He contributed close to 600 yards even as a rookie. That's pretty solid for a 5th round pick.
His best years were playing with Rodgers. He hasn't lived up to the deal the Chiefs gave him, so GB was wise to move on. But he had some production with GB. He was hurt and missed too much time and was mainly a one-trick-pony but was a solid contributor for where he was picked.
SicSemperTyrannis
January 08, 2024 at 07:14 pm
Hopefully Gutey keeps improving! Time to shift gears, fill a few weaknesses with best in class. 3 interior O linemen please, all in early rounds. Only 7 are returning next season and 4 are OTs (counting Zach Tom as being on the interior)
PackEyedOptimist
January 08, 2024 at 07:17 pm
I look forward to seeing what RBs Gute selects this year.
There aren’t any first round worthy players, but a bunch of good late second- third round prospects.
HawkPacker
January 09, 2024 at 06:00 am
I agree. I have been thinking which rb should he take as there are a lot of good ones out there. He will probably extend Jones as well.
MainePackFan
January 08, 2024 at 07:32 pm
The second Gutekunst drafted Jordan Love, his legacy was tied to that pick. At this moment in time, I think we can all agree that the Love pick looks to be a painfully good decision. He's had mixed results on his early drafts, but his 2022 and 2023 drafts look to have set this team up for success for at least the next 5 years.
I make no bones about my disdain for Brian Gutekunst the communicator. but I will give him props for his last 2 drafts. That being said, in a good cop/bad cop scenario, he definitely embraces the bad cop role. The dude needs a buffer between him and the players.
Trust me, Jordan Love saw how Gutekunst handled Rodgers. He's taking notes, and he sure as hell realizes loyalty is a one-way street when it comes to the current Packers GM.
Oppy
January 08, 2024 at 07:40 pm
Or, check this out-
Jordan Love saw exactly who Aaron Rodgers handles his personal and professional relationships, took notes, and sure as hell realized that Rodgers is a snakey, dishonest, self absorbed, manipulative prick, and he immediately realized he will not be that same type of player or person.
MainePackFan
January 08, 2024 at 07:59 pm
Actually, I don't think Jordan sees Rodgers the way you do Oppy. I think Jordan has a very real appreciation for how Aaron Rodgers handled the relationship between the two of them.
Rodgers never made it about Jordan. He embraced JL and still does Mr. President.
; )
Houndog
January 08, 2024 at 08:25 pm
MPF,
I don't know that I could argue that Rodgers was OK with Love due to his early treatment by Favre. The way he treated young receivers was not as good, to put it mildly.
I might have interpreted Oppy's comment different than you did, the way that Rodgers played the Packers organization his last couple years was, to be kind I'll just say, less than desirable.
Oppy's description is not far off!
MainePackFan
January 09, 2024 at 05:51 am
HD
My post was meant to be about Gutekunst not Rodgers. I should have used Rasul as my example of Brian's flawed approach to communication with his players.
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 07:14 am
The person who may have had a reason to want to move Douglas (beyond the trade value) isn’t Gute, who found him on a PS, but Barry.
GMs don’t typically wander into locker rooms and discuss maybe trading you with players. Deadline trades happen fast anyway. Do you ever listen to the stories from other teams? Most such trades are a shock to the player, in football and other sports.
Your “Gute isn’t a people person” theory is pretty stretched. Doulglas‘ innocuous comments simply reflect that side of being traded. The rest is your imagination.
Actually the few comments out there from people not named Aaron Rodgers are that he’s much more communicative and interactive than most GMs and certainly than TT was.
MainePackFan
January 09, 2024 at 07:42 am
"The person who may have had a reason to want to move Douglas (beyond the trade value) isn’t Gute, who found him on a PS, but Barry."
Interesting take. I highly doubt Barry has that kind of pull.
"Your Gute isn’t a people person theory is pretty stretched."
Based on what Rasul said about Gutekunst's phone call to him regarding the trade, I don't think it's a stretch at all. Other than Bahk, I guess I haven't heard the "few comments" about his positive communication with his players.
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 07:54 am
We know you don’t, but perhaps we aren’t looking so desperately hard for something in what is a pretty routine aspect of pro sports and the roles of GMs and players. The Turk is seldom a friend, in fact it’s his job not to be during their playing careers.
Since you keep harping in about those phone calls, there is an interesting aspect to this, the fact that Murphy appears to act as the head of the show, not Gute. However, the reading you derive from it is simply not supported, in fact it’s undermined dilute her by that.
“At first, because [Gutekunst] called me at first, I thought it was like a joke, because he didn’t say too much. He just was like, ‘We’re trading you.’ And then it was over, the conversation was over. I just hung up."
Mark Murphy then called Douglas to confirm the trade: "And then I'm sitting there and Mark Murphy called me. And he's got a voice that’s like, you know that it’s him. So I’m like, ‘Oh, now, this ain’t no joke.”
Douglas added that Murphy told him to come to the Packers' training facility, where he bid farewell to other players who had made a special trip on what's normally a day off. Douglas noted that Murphy also told him the Packers appreciated him and thanked him.
There are some insights into how things work inside Lambeau in that, but nothing remotely close to your fantasy. It’s just team informing a player that they’ve traded him and it being a surprise to that player and, actually, a team handling it as well as one could hope diplomatically, with Murphy acting as the person in charge of football operations.
Guam
January 09, 2024 at 08:25 am
"The Turk is seldom a friend, in fact it's his job not to be during their playing careers."
Nail, meet hammer.
I am not too concerned about communication issues between a GM and the players. It is Gute's job to be an objective and dispassionate evaluator of the team's players. It is hard to do that if you are also their friend. I have rarely heard about good or bad communication between Gute and the players and that is just about what I would expect overall.
MainePackFan
January 09, 2024 at 08:44 am
The Turk is conceptual, and therefore incapable of recognizing emotion. I wouldn't want Gutekunst to be a friend to his players. However, unlike the Turk, Brian should be able to make tough decisions and still maintain the human element of the game.
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 08:58 am
As I point out above, the Packers actually handled that remarkably well based upon Douglas’ own description. Albeit with Murphy as the TT (GM) figure interestingly, and Gute as in a head of personnel role.
MainePackFan
January 09, 2024 at 09:26 am
That's my point CW. There should be no need for both Gutekunst and Murphy to call. The GM should have been able to say everything that Murphy said. If Murphy was playing the TT (GM) role, why have Gutekunst call at all?
To be clear, I have no issue with how Gutekunst has built this team (draft, UDFA etc.). In fact, I would say he's done a hell of job with that aspect. In my opinion, he lacks the ability to understand the human element of the game when dealing his players. That's what I don't like about him.
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 12:48 pm
Murphy is playing the GM in that process as Douglas described it. I think you miss the more interesting point. Either way the team handled it well collectively.
Oppy
January 09, 2024 at 10:58 pm
I'm not sure what you're missing here, Maine.
Gutekunst called Rasul to inform him he was being traded. Rasul didn't believe Gutekunst- he thought Gute was pranking him- so he hung up the phone and wouldn't answer the follow up.
Gutekunst told Murphy he tried to tell Rasul he was traded, but he didn't believe him and hung up on him... so Murphy called him.
I don't see why that makes Gutekunst some sort of bad guy. The only person I'm aware of who's painted Gutekunst as a poor communicator / disrespectful figure is... drum roll, please! .. Mr Aaron Rodgers.. The guy who has been painting a less-than-honest picture of events over his last moments in Green Bay.
Rodgers hates Gutekunst because he was the first guy in the organization to say enough is enough, and put the organization ahead of Aaron Rodgers.
What did we get out of that? An irritated, bratty QB with a major chip on his shoulder, and we also got the bright future QB of the GPB for (hopefully) the next decade plus, as well as a young, amazingly talented offense.. and we're almost back to a healthy salary cap, too.
That Gutekunst.. such a meanie!
MainePackFan
January 10, 2024 at 05:57 am
"Gutekunst told Murphy he tried to tell Rasul he was traded, but he didn't believe him and hung up on him... so Murphy called him."
Lol. Do you actually believe that's how it went down Oppy?
“At first, because (Packers general manager Brian Gutekunst) called me at first, I thought it was like a joke, because he didn’t say too much," Douglas said. "He just was like, ‘We’re trading you.’ And then it was over, the conversation was over. I just hung up. "
Oppy
January 10, 2024 at 08:37 am
Let me ask you, do you really think Gutekunst picked up the phone and literally said three words?
Of course he didn't. I am sure he probably said something to the affect of, "Rasul, I'm calling to inform you Buffalo reached out and made a trade proposal for you just before the deadline that we've accepted. Effective immediately, you are no longer a Green bay packer, you're now officially a buffalo bill. We thank you for your service to the Packers during your time in Green bay."
I'm sure Rasul didn't like to hear it. I'm sure to Rasul it was effectively just "we're trading you". And I'm sure the conversation is over when you think it's a joke, and don't respond or make it a conversation. That's usually a requirement of a conversation.. One person says something, the other person has to respond.. if you just hang up, there can't be a conversation.
MainePackFan
January 10, 2024 at 09:18 am
I would say both of us would be speculating as to the exact words Gutekunst used. Rasul made it clear about what Murphy said. He also made it clear that Gute's conversation was short, and over, when he hung up.
One thing is for sure my friend, we'll never know , and we'll both continuing to see it through our own lens : )
Leatherhead
January 09, 2024 at 03:09 pm
Let me ask you two questions:
1) Did we make the playoffs without Rasul Douglas?
2) Did we get a Day 2 pick in exchange for this guy that we could win without?
We could ask the same questions about Aaron Rodgers, Randall Cobb, Alan Lazard, Mason Crosby, etc. etc. At the end of the day, it is Gutekunst's job to improve the roster, and he's been pretty good at it.
MainePackFan
January 10, 2024 at 09:25 am
3) Would our secondary be better off going into Sunday's game with Rasul?
4) Did we go 2-5 because of Rasul ?
5) Did the run to the playoffs have more to do with Jordan and the offense than the defense?
6) Is moving up two rounds in next years draft worth it?
LH, I didn't blame Gute for making the trade. the Packers were 2-5. I would love to ask him if he would have made the trade knowing what he knows now. Being an NFL GM is a tough gig, and hindsight is always 20/20 : )
WestCoastPackerBacker
January 09, 2024 at 04:53 pm
Rodgers never treated young WRs badly. This is such a false theme about him. He just had high standards and high expectations, which turned out to be a good thing. The WRs that played with him lived up to those standards all the way to and including last year when both Watson and Doubs had good rookie seasons despite both of them missing a fair amount of time due to injuries. I mean Watson tied for the lead in rookie scores last year. Rodgers didn't treat him too badly. He just wanted WRs to know their routes. We saw what happens when they don't know their routes. Those miserable games earlier this season were a great example of what happens with the QB and WR are not on the same page.
And don't try to blame it on Rodgers missing OTAs. Watson was hurt throughout training camp and they still figured out how to get on the same page.
MVS had close to 600 yards as a rookie. He treated him pretty well, too. MVS was at his most productive in GB. He should be thankful for Rodgers' high standards. I know I am.
bottlefliper
January 10, 2024 at 05:12 am
The Ivermetin flateearther treated not just the young guys bad, but he was the worst to them. Besides that, he threw everyone under the bus, not always directly, but thats the way he was.
We all know he always found a way to looose when it counts and blame eeryone else. Man, he looks like a 60year old with his eyerolling. No wonder a guy like that, weak and crazy need advise from an even dumber idiot like Rogan.
Ther have been so much good guys leving Green Bay because of the chemtrailer and he tells us that perople came here to play with him. What a coward.
But at least anyone can see how he sinks the Jets in realtime and they derserve it. He let them bring his buddies and pay him for carry the flag, like he thinks he is a superhero, 150 M. Funny. A guy who is the biggest promoter from dumb lies about 9/11. Crazy.
But in the end, we all should feel sorry for him. He has nothing in his parallel universe and always want attenion. Kelse and Kimmel are so much better humans than him, as most people on this planet are.
On top of that is his ability to loooose always when it counts. He had one good playoff season out of 20, with so many weapons. But hey, its always someone else.
So glad we got the joy in football back and what is it all about. Critical think yourself AR, but ask better Rogan first...AR has no standarts for himself, never had. But for everyone else of course
bottlefliper
January 10, 2024 at 05:35 am
Why are always the weakest, dumbest people think they are the smartest in the room. Rodgers may be the biggest Dunning Kruger you can find on this small planet. So its not his fault and we should feel sorry for him on so many levels......
There was a reason even Adams wanted out of here......
But sure "People come here to play with me" just like the earth is flat, just ask Rogan....
So you can see what happens if you be a leader for your team. AR would had no success at all with that WR group and would blame them every day on his plattforms. Love makes everyone around him better, something AR never had in mine....
Oppy
January 10, 2024 at 08:47 am
I mean, he kinda did treat most young WRs badly.
When you have a secret hand signal offense that isn't even officially recognized by the coaching staff.. and you literally don't teach it to the young WRs, but you expect them to know it.. and then you place them "in the doghouse" with nasty looks, barking, and reduced future targets when they fail to execute those signals on the field.. That's not treating them nicely.
It's also not considered being nice to young WRs when you are literally telling them to ignore the techniques their positional coaches are teaching them and do it "your way".. when the understanding is if you don't do it how Aaron wants you to do it, you won't get targets, but if you do it the way you're taught instead of the way Aaron wants it, you get in trouble on the sidelines from your coaches and get benched..
Source: Locker room quotes from MVS, ESB. Various interviews with Jordan Love, Randall Cobb, and a slew of other veteran ex-packers who went on the record about Rodgers' insane signals offense that wasn't directly taught that included fun touches like Rodgers' just deciding to use a signal he hasn't used in 5 years and gets pissed if a player doesn't know it- even though he hasn't been on the team 5 years..and he doesn't personally teach them.
That's all shitty. No top tier QB got less out of the young receiving talent around him than Aaron Rodgers. Been saying that for years, and it's statistically true.
CheesedDeadHead
January 08, 2024 at 08:43 pm
"Rodgers never made it about Jordan."
Sure he did. For several weeks in 2022 he played hurt and wouldn't take a game off even though it hurt the team because he knew how far Love had advanced and knew he very likely would be expendable if the "world" saw that Love could do.
Then Rodgers starts the 2022 offseason saying he will make a faster decision than in 2021 offseason on whether he will return or retire then proceeds to take almost the exact same time to make a decision. That decision was only after he came out of his darkness retreat and found out the Packers wanted to move on because what team wants to go through the same circus every offseason. Yeah, you may be right, it was all about Aaron.
WestCoastPackerBacker
January 09, 2024 at 05:28 pm
I would think it is up to the coaching and training staff whether Rodgers could play in 2022. There is zero shreds of evidence that Rodgers played because he didn't want to be expendable. Jordan Love may well have played the way he played against the Raiders or Steelers this year, making GB think that he wasn't ready. We know Rodgers is incredibly competitive and has played through injury whenever he could, with a bum calf or whatever. The only games he didn't play were with a broken collarbone or that type of injury. You can bet he wanted to get to the post season in 2022 and try to win another Title.
Rodgers lived up to his word. He said he would decide if he wanted to retire by the time of the new league year in March and he did that. He did nothing to hurt the team by doing that.
None of this has anything to do about Rodgers "making it about Jordan." Rodgers has always been complimentary about Jordan and there is no evidence he was not supportive when they were both in green and gold.
bottlefliper
January 10, 2024 at 05:15 am
An coward like Mr. Ivermetin never lived up to his words. Not once, but he twisted them all of the time.
He was the oppossite of Packer People and he is still afaid of everything. Bet he will soon form his own cult...
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 07:42 am
I think Jordan is just happy that relationship is now more geographically distant.
“When I got drafted here I knew right away exactly what situation I was being put in, who I was being behind, so I knew it was going to come with time that I was going to come in and learn and grow. But I'll admit, I think the hardest time was when he re-signed the contract last year. It was kind of like, 'OK, well, where do we go from here? What do I do?' I sat back, thought to myself and came back with the approach like just go ball out.” JL May 10, 2023.
Well he has, and fortunately our GM didn’t alienate the player who may already be the face of the franchise too much.
MainePackFan
January 09, 2024 at 08:06 am
Of course Jordan is happy AR's no longer in Green Bay, but not for the reason you may or may not be inferring. At this point it's fair to say all of Packer nation is happy that relationship is geographically distant. It was inevitable.
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 08:47 am
I’m just pointing out that the absence of personal rancor is not the equivalent of the absence of tension. The situation resolved itself.
One could easily read into that that Love was approaching the point where something had to give regardless of how well the two QBs get on personally. Fortunately, the extension was unraveled, Love got his shot and that tension is history. Even more happily, it looks like Love is proving himself deserving.
MainePackFan
January 09, 2024 at 09:40 am
On this, we agree. Mark the time and date ; )
MainePackFan
January 09, 2024 at 08:10 am
"fortunately our GM didn’t alienate the player who may already be the face of the franchise too much."
Yet..... : )
Leatherhead
January 09, 2024 at 03:13 pm
Our GM wants to alienate the guy he drafted? This makes no sense to me.
""""fortunately our GM didn’t alienate the player who may already be the face of the franchise too much."""
Let me rewrite this. "By design and planning, our GM and the player he drafted have a good relationship"""
".....didn't alienate....too much.""
Classic Coldworld
Houndog
January 08, 2024 at 08:10 pm
LOL, that's a hell of a description Oppy!
I was going to suggest something similar to what you wrote, but no way I could have been that colorful. I think you might have nailed it.
WestCoastPackerBacker
January 09, 2024 at 05:38 pm
If Rodgers is as you described, why is he friends with so many current and former team mates? Standing up in their weddings, hanging out. You can see he is still buddies with AJ; he has mentioned being in touch with Graham Harrell, who was a long ago brief member of the QB room. Micah Hyde had this to say about Rodgers, even after Hyde left for BUF:
"I love 12. That’s my guy,” Hyde said. He added, “He’s a loving, great person. He’s one of the best teammates I ever had"
The only guy to ever have a beef with Rodgers that we even know about is Jennings, and he was mad at the entire organization. He's always been about the team and the locker room and the teammates, and he's had a lot of QBs pass through that room and he seems to have maintained a friendship with many of them.
You can disagree with Rodgers stance on medical things or mind-expanding experiences, or trolling the media, but I just don't see any evidence that he was seen negatively by teammates. The Gutey-Rodgers feud was a 2-way street. They both were jerks; but divorce never brings out the best in people.
Oppy
January 09, 2024 at 10:45 pm
Driver and Woodson shied away from Rodgers- the person.
Plenty of players weren't friends of Rodgers.
Most importantly, Rodger's family, not fans of Rodgers.
Most of the people who are big fans of Rodgers- the person, are players or media types that directly benefit from that relationship.
Im not sure how much this guy has to blatantly mislead, twist, and deceive before some of you will figure out the type of person he is.
Bitternotsour
January 10, 2024 at 12:16 am
I know it's blasphemy here, but maybe, just maybe, Greg Jennings was right about him.
bottlefliper
January 10, 2024 at 05:22 am
If Rodgers is as you described, why is he friends with so many current and former team mates? Standing up in their weddings, hanging out...hhaha. You kidding right. Nobody likes him, besides his couple of buddies who make some money of him. 5-10 people, all the others came out how crazy he is and how badly he treads people.
He was never a leader and that may be the biggest reason he was so bad in the playoffs.
He is a chemtrailer, a liar, a coward, who is afraid of everything. He asks a crackhead like Rogan for help. He comes with personel TV show with 4 guys trying to let him look good. End even that works in this crazy echochambers.
bottlefliper
January 10, 2024 at 05:56 am
It speaks more than word if you can see that joy in the lockerroom now. You never would saw that as Ivermetin was here, not a single time.
Ther is no bullying anymore, no blaming and no disrespect. They joy is back and you can let your kids watch football again and what its all about.
Just ask the other QB, just Flyn tries to cover his real feelings toward him.
Besides his 5-10 "buddies" there are such a long list of players who left because of him. Jennings is just one of so many and the quote from Hyde is just a formula, who is always used.
Even Adams thought he was better off without him and he may be one of his 10 "friends". Even Mike McCarty, tries to be nice but in private he knows what kind of person he is.......
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
January 08, 2024 at 08:54 pm
Rodgers was not a victim. He brought it on himself. As for Love, he should feel nothing but respect and gratitude for Gute as Gute bet his career and reputation when he drafted Love.
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 07:23 am
Douglas should too. Even more so in fact. This discussion caused by a classic example of the contortions forced on those who seek to hold up humans as near perfect icons when none of us are. That includes Rodgers.
Houndog
January 08, 2024 at 07:36 pm
Here's an interesting stat on Gutey's latest draft and yesterday's game.
Of Love’s total of 316 passing yards against Da Bears, 286 yards were delivered by players who entered this season with zero career NFL catches.
Imagine Rodgers even considering that!
Houndog
January 08, 2024 at 07:40 pm
Rookie Dontayvion Wicks caught six passes for 61 yards and two touchdowns.
- Bo Melton, a seventh-round pick by Seattle last year who didn’t get his first catch until last month, caught five passes for 62 yards.
- Rookie Jayden Reed caught all four targets for 112 yards with gains of 59 and 32 yards.
- Rookie Tucker Kraft caught three passes for 31 yards.
- Rookie Malik Heath caught three passes for 9 yards.
- Rookie Luke Musgrave caught one pass for 11 yards.
Aaron Jones had 30 yds, can't remember if it was 2 or 3 catches
baldski
January 08, 2024 at 10:46 pm
Jayden Reed leads the receiver group with 700+ yards for the season. Should be made #1 receiver on record.
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 07:50 am
He’s primarily a slot and that’s his best role. Whether he’s number one or not really doesn’t matter. Using him to best harness his skill set does.
golfpacker1
January 08, 2024 at 08:08 pm
I am from Iowa and I wasn't thrilled when GB took Van Ness, but I have been pleasantly surprised. He is an athlete. And you never get a head case player from Iowa.
I liked Kraft as the 4th best TE and I have no idea what the Notre Dame guy is doing. My Iowa guy Laporta has been great. I thought Kraft would be the most complete TE in the draft. He has the best hands on the Packers team. Remember everyone thought we would take the big Georgia TE. He has made no noise at all.
I think Musgrave was out most of his senior year and Oregon State was a running team mainly. We went from having no TE room at all to it being a strength. Sims is also a decent TE.
Reed has been spectacular. GB really did their homework. Reed didn't benefit from any good QB play at Michigan State and they were not on tv much so I never saw him play. His college highlights weren't much but his GB highlights are great.
I wanted 2 other WRs than Wicks and Dubose but Wicks has been solid. Jury is still out on Dubose.
Brooks had a great game yesterday.
GregC
January 09, 2024 at 12:13 pm
I was so glad when Gutey drafted TEs who were capable of being serious threats in the passing game. The Mercedes Lewis era needed to end in a big way.
splitpea1
January 08, 2024 at 08:12 pm
While Gute kind of flubbed the top half of the 2021 draft, we still netted Slaton and McDuffie in the later rounds, so all was not lost. Slaton has appeared in all 52 games (including one playoff) and has started all of them this season. McDuffie has developed into a solid backup, and he sure is a lot better than some of the ILBs we used to trot out there last decade.
The biggest surprise for me in the 2023 draft is Wicks. I didn't think much of the pick at the time, but he has won everybody over with his improvement and his toughness. I did like the Reed pick though, and he has not only dazzled, but also proven to be a pretty tough guy.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
January 08, 2024 at 08:58 pm
I still think Stokes was a good pick. Hard to blame Gute for Stokes' career getting derailed by Ford Field's crappy turf.
splitpea1
January 08, 2024 at 10:00 pm
Although he had a solid rookie year, he was almost a non-factor (no passes defended or INTs) in his second season until his injury at about the halfway point. Which percentage of that was him or Barry's soft schemes, I don't know. Maybe he returns to his first-year form when he is fully healed and is used to his strengths.
DoubleJ
January 09, 2024 at 09:29 am
I would say a lot of it was the scheme. During his rookie year Stokes was asked to play a lot of man/press-man. Last year Barry went to a huge amount of off-zone with bail technique (first move is backwards) so easy completions were very common. The problem is Barry's top CBs were all man/press-man specialists and he didn't allow them to do that. They were playing something like 90% zone coverage and had problems passing players off in their zones. Interestingly in the game on Sunday the Packers played a lot of man. Fields had been doing well against man coverage but struggled against zone coverage all year.
golfpacker1
January 08, 2024 at 08:14 pm
The 2 big name popular picks for GB at edge were Miles Murphy-Clemson and Felix Uzomah-Kansas State. Does anyone know what kind of years either had. Edge was a strong position group last year. We got the right guy.
BAMABADGER
January 08, 2024 at 09:04 pm
LVN has more Solo, Total, and Sacks than either player.
DoubleJ
January 09, 2024 at 09:34 am
Miles Murphy - 20 total tackles with 10 solo and 10 assists, 3 sacks, and 1 stuff.
Felix Uzomah - 14 total tackles with 8 solo and 6 assists, 0.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 2.5 stuffs.
LVN - 32 total tackles with 24 solo and 8 assists, 4 sacks, 1 pass defensed, 6.5 stuffs.
Bear
January 08, 2024 at 08:56 pm
Researching draft information a few studies I’ve found.
Correlation between Draft Position and "Starter
Status"
Using Pro Football Reference as a resource, Looking at al players who were classified as starters at the beginning of the season to determine what round they were drafted in upon entering the league. Of the 595 players designated : such, the results reveal the following:
20 years counted.
According to Pro Football Reference, most drafted players are busts. the only problem with their system is they don't take into account the round they where picked. But anyway...
16.7% don't even end playing for the drafting team (20 years average)
37% are considered 'useless', or busts.
5.3% are 'poor'. Busts such as Jamarcus Russell are here.
So 69% are 'poor' or worst.
10.5% average
12.3% good
6.8% great
1% legendary
That gives 20.1% good. 2 out of 10.
Round Freq. Percent Cuml
1 178 29.9 29.9
2. 104 17.5. 47.4
3 75 12.6 60.0
4 64 10.8 70.8
5 38 6.4 77.2
6 29 4.9 82.0
7 25 4.2 86.2
Undrafted 81 13.6. 99.8
Supplemental 1 0.2 100.0
Total 595 100
Nearly 30% of all starters were 1st round draft picks when drafted into the league;
- Roughly 30% were taken in either the 2nd or 3rd round;
- Roughly 26% were taken in either rounds 4 through 7;
- Undrafted players (14%) were the 3rd most likely group to comprise starters…only behind 1st round (30%) and 2nd round (18%) picks.
porupack
January 09, 2024 at 07:43 am
Bear; that is a great post, perfect timing. I'll just copy, paste this every week of the off season when we are tempted to gripe about a particular missed or bad pick. It gives objectivity at the 10,000 foot level view. We should expect 2 quality players per draft, roughly. Perhaps a few journeymen, or back ups as well. Let's call your stat-sheet as something like "The bar for mediocrity", if we average across good and bad teams. So if a GM does better than that over, let's say a 3 year rolling average, then he is an above average GM. Seems that is a reasonable indicator, because any one year, a GM could have a particularly lucky or unlucky result if there is a bad pick or there are unfortunate career ending injuries. Thanks for posting!
baldski
January 08, 2024 at 10:37 pm
Why has media promoted Musgrave's speed versus Tucker Kraft's. I just checked their 40 times 4.61 versus 4.69. What are they talking about? 0.08 of a second? I do not think it matters and Kraft can block. He should be #1 T/E.
Bitternotsour
January 08, 2024 at 10:49 pm
there are other metrics, and Musgrave's were more impressive. Also, Musgrave played agains superior competition, in a pro style offense and he has a pedigree in terms of athleticism.
why worry about the number or the draft order, if you want him to be the #1 tight end, well hell, he can be your number one tight end. i am just glad both of them are on the team, it provides a significant advantage for the offense going forward.
Coldworld
January 09, 2024 at 12:58 pm
Musgrave is, athletically, the better WR prospect on paper. Kraft is a more prototypical TE. Kraft could well, in my view, turn out to have a more varied role. Not only because he can block and is less high cut, because of how quick footed he is and his balance. I firmly believe he underperformed in his agility testing in relative terms.
I think both can be huge, but I do think we are better treating Musgrave as a move TE/WR and not trying to pretend he’s as potentially versatile. In that role, he could easily be a nightmare for opponents. We just need to find ways to build them both into the offense going forward without relegating Kraft to a largely blocking role. That would be a waste.
Rhambo53
January 09, 2024 at 12:51 am
Kraft will be the better TE. He gets YAC whereas Musgrave didn't. Kraft seems like a more fluid athlete.
DoubleJ
January 09, 2024 at 09:38 am
Kraft is more likely to catch a 6 yard pass and go for 9 YAC for 15 total yards. Musgrave is likely to catch a 15 yard pass with no YAC for 15 total yards. In the end the yardage is the same but one player is able to stress the D more than the other. Musgrave with his superior speed and acceleration is the one who can put more stress on the D both horizontally and vertically. Also I wonder if the YAC will come for Musgrave as he matures.
HarryHodag
January 09, 2024 at 08:28 am
To me, Kraft has been the better tight end. Musgrave looks slow and clumsy.
DoubleJ
January 09, 2024 at 09:39 am
Musgrave might have been a bit clumsy, remember he is a rookie playing the 2nd hardest position to learn, but he was improving as the year went on. That said Kraft looks by no means faster than Musgrave.
WD
January 09, 2024 at 01:15 pm
In a game of inches speed does matter. That said, the problem of who is number one is a good problem to have. We have two really good young TEs. I would not be surprised to see some two TE formations added to the playbook. It's all good.
10ve 💚
January 09, 2024 at 01:44 pm
Bald, that difference in speed is about one foot every 20 yards.
Football frequently deals with inches. That difference in speed could be the difference between a missed tackle or not, or being able to get to a 1st down.
Having said that, I like Kraft better 😊. Musgrave has to work on his balance before I start raving about him.
Bitternotsour
January 08, 2024 at 10:51 pm
Gutekunst's best draft was the one where he replaced a malcontent hall of fame quarterback with a franchise worthy successor. Everything else is gravy.
stockholder
January 08, 2024 at 11:00 pm
Of Course the 2023 was his best yet.
He had to start drafting better.
The holes were always there.
Do I expect another draft 2023?
No- I expect more wasting of draft capitol.
And letting common sense be damned.
Because the real story isn't Gutey.
It's how MLF can change one failure into
a success.
And get everyone to build on it.
BAMABADGER
January 09, 2024 at 08:14 am
Gutey's best draft was selecting Jordan Love.
He continues building on that,
You were wrong about Gutey.
You were wrong about Love.
You finally stopped posting about ACR.
Your new man-crush is MLF.
Again you are wrong.
GPG!
stockholder
January 09, 2024 at 10:06 am
I get you Love Love.
But a Gm s job is to get the missing pieces for the super-bowl.
Love wasn't that piece.
In 2022 - Stokes and Meyer were the wrong pieces.
Barmoore and Humphrey were.
Stokes was taken because Gutey always has mis-judged the Secondary.
Alexander was a N0-Brain pick.
The rest required thought.
There is nothing special about Gutes drafting.
Whims don't work unless you trying to toot your own horn.
DoubleJ
January 09, 2024 at 10:44 am
Barmoore isn't even a starter. Humphrey and Myers were rated by publications as interchangeable as the #1/2 C. Going with either of them was a good choice. Myers had the edge for GB as he was a team captain and OSU has a history of very good OL in the NFL. Stokes was good his rookie year but not as good his 2nd year. I think that was scheme related and then just got injured. Next year will be interesting for him.
stockholder
January 09, 2024 at 12:19 pm
Wrong Barmoore made Rookie of the year team as a starter.
He was the top rated DT. And NE has No defense without him.
He got Hurt big time. And is working his way back again.
Humphrey was the top rated center. Per every draft site. Period.
Stokes was fastest cb in the draft.
The only reason he got taken was because of the make-up speed.
DoubleJ
January 09, 2024 at 12:39 pm
Great Barmore made the all rookie team. It isn't like players make a big flash their rookie year and flame out after that... That said Barmore played in all 17 games his rookie year but he only started 2. This year he played in all 17 with only 6 starts. I'm not saying he isn't a good player, however, he plays for NE which has had a lot of good defenses based on scheme. Stokes was very good after his rookie year and has been misused and injured since then.
Bitternotsour
January 09, 2024 at 11:20 am
Love is the missing piece for the super bowl. Rodgers had maxxed out, and he was actually an impediment. You were happy to get regular season wins but Rodgers was incapable of winning big games. It wasn't a matter of surrounding him with better talent, it was a matter of him being finished. Just like Favre before him. Gutekunst saw the writing on the wall and he moved for a better future.
A malignant narcissist does not a future super bowl winner make. Time for a discount double check.
BAMABADGER
January 09, 2024 at 07:40 pm
I don't Love, Love. I recognize his talent.
You have left your man-crush on ACR for the HC MLF.
I respect Gutey for the balls to pick a great QB before we needed one
That one, bold move has saved this franchise going decades forward
Gutey was brilliant drafting him before GB needed a QB.
Stokes was a top ranked DB in the draft.
Barmoore was a top DL.
Both have fallen to injuries,
In SH World, Belichick and Gutey should have foreseen their injuries
Agree Humphrey over Meyer only because at that level it boils down to SEC over B10
GPG!
Minniman
January 08, 2024 at 11:16 pm
Don't forget his FA dumpster diving too Mark.
That too is a long list
HarryHodag
January 09, 2024 at 10:11 am
Almost every team in the league has the same problem. The future lies in developing young talent because the older players are too expensive and too prone to injury.
Minniman
January 09, 2024 at 12:49 pm
Yes - and some guys just take longer to develop.
They still end up solid/good players (e.g. Douglas and Campbell), they just take longer than 2-3 years to develop........ or need to be plugged into the right scheme.
HarryHodag
January 09, 2024 at 08:27 am
"There are surely draft picks Gutekunst would love to have back over the years. Premium picks were spent on Josh Jackson, Darnell Savage, A.J. Dillon, and Josh Myers, with mixed results at best. The third-round curse only appears to have recently been lifted."
---
A.J. Dillon? C'mon man. This guy has proven himself time and time again. When Jones was hurt yet again, Dillon carried the running game on his back while he was hurt himself. I truly think you're off base on Dillon.
Myers isn't Creed Humphrey, but he has shown some strength late this year. Savage has been ok at times when he wasn't hurt, but he's been too inconsistent for a top pick. Not much need be said about Jackson.
Ron Wolf is in the Hall of Fame, deservedly so, but some of his draft blunders were huge. You can't hit them all, but Gute has won his share of picks.
Via.Lombardi
January 09, 2024 at 08:57 am
Pat McAfee is a clown, and he can go f––– himself.
Minniman
January 09, 2024 at 12:52 pm
Like Bayliss, Cowherd et al, just accept him for what he is - a slave to increased content and viewership.
Bitternotsour
January 09, 2024 at 01:20 pm
They're television entertainers. Are you not entertained? Jerry Springer begat Jim Rome, begat Mike and the Mad dog, begat Cowherd, begat...
People want screamfests and wind-up artists with "hot takes". It's all noise to me, but to each their own.
jhtobias
January 09, 2024 at 09:55 am
I was a kid when I was watching ron wolf sayong that if you can get three starters out of any draft you have done well. If one of them turns into an all pro you hit it out of the park.
Well Gute by the standards the great ron wolf goes by has been amazing.
I think even his picks on defense will shine more once we have a competent defensive staff that knows how to use the players .
Hats off to gute
White92
January 09, 2024 at 04:48 pm
By that logic Gutey took a huge gamble this year with odds stacked against him by starting so many rookies. I would say he was extremely fortunate this year and there is nothing wrong with that. Everyone has to get lucky sometime.
golfpacker1
January 09, 2024 at 11:53 am
I asked a question on another thread if anyone thought the fact that Creed is a left handed center made any difference in us not taking the #1 center that year. Or if Rodgers had any opinion on that pick? Otherwise I did not and still don't see the reason we picked Myers instead. That was a big miss on what seemed a no brainer pick. I know about hindsight.
I can't wait to see what kind of production we get out of Kraft and Musgrave next year with a year under their belts and the game slows even more for them. Both have great hands but Kraft is a freaking vacuum cleaner, he catches everything. I would not be surprised if both don't catch over 50 balls next year. Love will have so many options. how does a defense cover all of them.
Harry, I like Dillon as well and would take him back on a less than $2 million dollar contract. But I think he will get more as a FA. If he is then draft Braelon Allen-Wisconsin RB. He is a combo of both our backs-Big, strong, and fast. 3rd rounder home run. I still would love Aaron Jones to come back but he will need to take less money again, especially after missing so much time this year. And I think he will. His head is screwed on straight and he likes Green Bay. If not, the RB out of USC, Marshawn Lloyd is a Jones clone. He is the same size, as quick, and catches the ball great.
golfpacker1
January 09, 2024 at 12:14 pm
Bahk is the most likely player to be moved on from in the off season. But other players to replace that we can get cheaper, younger, faster players at are Preston Smith, Devondre Campbell, and Savage.
To replace Smith draft Darius Robinson-Missouri, 6'5 290 or Jordan Burch-Oregon, same size.
Campbells replacements are Junior Colson Michigan or Payton Wilson-N C State. Both are 3 down backers.
I really like Nubin-Minn, or Bullock-USC for our Safety pick in the second round. Maybe one later too. Plus I think a FA guy like Taylor Rapp would help and he played for $2 million this year with Buffalo. Thats a steal we should have grabbed. 2nd tier FA Safeties are reasonable always. It will be nice to finally have some extra FA $$ to fill some holes with veterans that can play.
My draft crush WRs are Xavier Leggette-So Carolina and Johnny Wilson-FLA State. Both gamechangers and WR1 for us. Maybe we could score one after trading back in first round, getting another 2nd rounder and our first pick would be Nubin later first, early 2nd.
We will be the youngest team by far next year with these moves.
Bitternotsour
January 09, 2024 at 01:23 pm
We're on the hook for Bakhtiari regardless, let's all hope he gets healed and returns. No downside there. I'd love to see Bakhtiari and Jenkins side by side again.
golfpacker1
January 09, 2024 at 08:00 pm
Bitter, its my understanding that if the Packers keep Bahktiari that they would owe him over $40 million. And if they trade or cut him they save $20 million. They will let him go to save the money especially since he has only been available to play 6 games in the last 3 years. He was a great one but his body has given out. The Packers can't count on him anymore. Times to go.
Since'61
January 09, 2024 at 12:55 pm
I agree that the 2022 and 2023 are looking to be very good to excellent at this point but it's still very early to determine. As for the previous 4 drafts Gute has hit on the oft injured Alexander, who is excellent when healthy, Rashon Gary who has become a force on the Packers defense, Jenkins who has been up and down the last 2 seasons, Stokes who has missed a lot of time and hasn't played very well since his rookie season and Jordan Love who has played excellently in his first season as the Packers starting QB especially the second half of this season. Runyan has been serviceable at best.
Four good to great players out of 4 drafts is not a very good job for any GM. Three of them are first rounders. The spine of the team should already exist if the 2018 - 2021 drafts had been better than they have proven to be. If the spine evolves out of the 2022 and 2023 drafts that's fine but we need to wait and see what the next 2 seasons bring for these players before we can determine the quality of the those drafts. So far so good. Time will tell. Thanks, Since '61
White92
January 09, 2024 at 04:54 pm
Very much agree here Since '61. People can't make the argument that Gutey is such the genius for all the great picks in the last 2 drafts, then turn around and say "well even good GMs only hit on a low number of picks" when others point out his draft failures.
If it is true that even great GMs hit on a small percentage of draft picks, then it was very reckless to start this season with so many rookies starting.
Leatherhead
January 09, 2024 at 03:19 pm
At this point, you can't argue against the 23 draft. Van Ness is the next Gary, IMO, a high pick who was allowed to develop. Musgrave and Kraft should be a starter for us for the next three years The bonus pick we got from the Jets allowed us to get Reed, who's one of our Top 3 WRs. And getting Brooks/Wooden on Day 3 is like getting extra bacon for breakfast.
We're sitting on 5 picks in the top 80 or so for the 2024 draft. Plus extra picks on Day 3.
golfpacker1
January 11, 2024 at 12:05 pm
Sitting on 5 pics now Leatherhead. If our biggest need in the 2024 draft is Safety, I think we should try to trade back to end of first round or ideally top of 2nd. #19 is too early for a Safety. We should be able to still draft one of the top 3 safeties, Kinchen, Nubin, or Bullock in either spot. Plus, it would gain us at least another 2nd rounder plus a later pick.
We fill our biggest need and steal another early pick to add a top 5 rated player as a bonus. Maybe a new WR1, a new center, a new Edge, or a top RB like Braelon Allen, who would be a combo of Jones and Dillon. I really hope AJ comes back on a lower dollar deal, but we need another back if not. Allen is bigger than Dillon and as fast as Jones. And he can block and catches well.
GB is on a draft success roll after scoring Reed. Maybe that extra 2nd rounder gets us Xavier Legette for a new WR1 or the "Unicorn" Johnny Wilson, who could be a really huge WR threat or a TE matchup nightmare like Darrin Waller was as a Raider. Either could give us the best receiving groups in the NFL.
I always look forward to the draft but lets win some playoff games to give us more momentum for 2024. Beat the Cowboys!!!!!
exbody
January 09, 2024 at 08:09 pm
I just can't myself when it comes to this subject regarding Gutey and the drafting of Jordan Love.
The backlash, heat, trashing and calls for his immediate firing were made by many people in the media and let's not forget #12.created quite the drama with reports of his displeasure with both Gutey and MM. I give props to Rodgers for balling out those two seasons but early playoff exits were frustrating to say the least.
Gutey was true to his plan to have Love ait and learn and when ready, he would take over the reigns.
And that's exactly what happened. Could the Packers have gotten a truckload of picks of they traded #12 after his back to back MVPs. ? Probably. But with the way Love has played and clearly showing he is the NEXT ONE. It offsets the loss of the potential huge trade haul of Gutey did trade Rodgers a year before he did.
In the end , I think Packer fans agree that Gutey came up H U G E in that draft.
And now we can watch this group of kids go to Jerry World and shock the world.
Win or lose this team is just beginning!!!
One note to add .... Isn't it refreshing to root for a team that only cares about FOOTBALL and WINNING. To have players that SUPPORT one another.
Apparently, the same can't be said about Jets headquarters. At least that's what AR indicated at a recent press conference.
Let alone his fued with Jimmy Kimmel and calling out the execs at ESPN....... Yeah
.no distractions there.
GO PACK GO !!!!!!!