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Green and Bold: Would You Rather...

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Green and Bold: Would You Rather...

The 2017 season has, needless to say, become divisive within the Packers fan base. 

Some fans have read the writing on the wall and have accepted it's likely the Packers will not make the playoffs for the first time since 2008, instead placing their hopes on an unusually high draft selection in 2018. 

Others hold fast to the belief that if Green Bay can win just one more game, Aaron Rodgers can return in Week 15 and give the team the spark it needs to qualify for the postseason. 

Whichever camp you fall in, all Packers fans can share in the sense of frustration and disappointment that goes hand-in-hand with injuries piling up, shut-out losses, and, of course, placing a starting quarterback on injured reserve. 

To that end, in lieu of a column this week, I wanted to open things up for the community to voice its opinions on a range of Packers topics concerning the current season and beyond. It's a game of "Would You Rather?" and it should hopefully spur some interesting discussion in the comments section. 

Without further ado:

 

Would you rather...the Packers restructure/waive Randall Cobb or Jordy Nelson in order to re-sign Davante Adams?

Adams is set to become a free agent in March and, given that he's essentially become the Packers' No. 1 wideout, it's crucial that the team bring him back. 

However, Cobb and Nelson are set to count the second- and third-most against the cap, respectively, in 2018, after only Rodgers. Cutting Cobb would mean a dead cap hit of $3.25 million but would free up $9.5 million in cap savings, while Nelson's dead cap number is $2.3 million and would save $10.25 million in cap space. 

 

Would you rather...Ty Montgomery remain at running back or move back to wide receiver?

Given the emergence of rookies Aaron Jones and Jamaal Williams this season, it's become clear that the value Montgomery adds in the backfield is quickly diminishing. Still, he is definitely a useful weapon to mix in on third downs and on halfback screens, and offers a different skill-set than that of Jones and Williams. In any case, it's a disappointing turn of events for him that he went from being a No. 1 running back to, potentially, a No. 4 receiver, though of course waiving Cobb or Nelson would change things. 

 

Would you rather...Ted Thompson or Dom Capers be fired following this season?

This one forces people to ascribe either to the "Packers aren't drafting the right players" mentality or the "Dom Capers' scheme wastes the team's talent" mentality. Let's say that only one of them will be shown the door this offseason. Which one would have the bigger (positive) impact on the team? Bonus question: Is anyone out there actually in the "fire Thompson, Capers, and McCarthy" camp? Or the "keep all three" camp?

 

Would you rather...the Packers make it to the NFC Championship Game and lose, or finish the season 6-10 (i.e. lose out) but secure a high draft pick?

Personally, I've always felt that I'd rather a team miss the playoffs altogether rather than get in and lose prior to reaching the Super Bowl, but I'm surprised how many people don't agree. For perspective, if the season ended after Week 14, the Packers would hold the No. 19 pick in the 2018 draft, though that will move up if they lose out. 

 

Would you rather...keep Brett Hundley as the backup in 2018, draft someone new, or sign a free agent?

For all the ire Hundley has drawn this season as he's tried to navigate starting at quarterback for the Packers, he's definitely shown improvement as the weeks have progressed, and he knows the system as well as anyone. But given his performance so far this season, the Packers aren't likely to get a very high draft pick if they trade him this offseason. 

 

Would you rather...the Vikings host their own Super Bowl, but lose, or the Lions beat the Vikings in the playoffs?

Sorry. This one's cruel. 

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (121) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Nick Perry's picture

Restructure Nelson, waive Cobb, sign Adams and maybe one other FA. Add a TE with the talent of say Jared Cook at the least if possible.

Montgomery can be used anywhere in the offense and IMO you'd use him that way. Jones and Williams are both better runners so IMO those to are #1 and #2.

I say FIRE Ted Thompson. If Thompson goes then it goes without saying EVERYBODY goes. If Thompson stays I could still see them keeping Capers. I mean after fielding a defense like the Packers have for most of these last 7 seasons what makes anyone think they'll get rid of Capers after this year?

Since you said they LOSE in the NFC Championship Game then I say lets go 6-10. I never want the Packers to lose but since your "Would you Rather" has them losing, then it may as well start now.

No Matter what you MOVE ON from Hundley. After throwing for less than 80- yards against the worst pass defense in the NFL, getting shut out by the Ravens at home, and basically looking like he has NO CLUE when he's in the pocket, go out and get a back-up QB who's PLAYED. A veteran QB who can actually play the position. Hundley may have played himself out of the League he's been so bad.

I've NEVER wished for the Packers to lose. I'm wishing for the sake of THIS article. But I think it should also be said I doubt this team could even sniff the NFFCG, even with AR. To many injuries and weaknesses on this team, even for Rodgers to cover up.

Pauly's picture

2018 Draft the Packers have 12 picks so far.
10 of them in first 5 rounds.
How will TT use them? Will he trade up for some elite talent??
I believe in 2018 there is a need for 2 top FA players. 1 TE and 1 fast #1 WR. AR needs the experienced players now!!
Ty can replace Cobb.
Jordy wants to retire back to Kansas.
Keep CMIII and use in the middle.
Give RB Mays some more chances to see what he can do.
Better for AR's and the team's future to be drafting @ # 7 spot than playing AR too early and possibly limping into a wild card 1 and out situation.
Dom's defense is dismal, dis-organized and just isn't cutting it anymore.

Turophile's picture

1) Packers cannot realistically keep 3x $12m+ receivers, So my guess is Nelson is kept, Cobb is waived and Adams gets a big bucks contract.

2) Cobb's position is potentially filled (for now) by Montgomery.

3) Capers is the obvious underperformer over a long period of time and with many different defensive combos. In a "what have you done for me lately" league, he should be gone. Ted has had good years and not so good years drafting, but overall good enough to keep his job until his current contract runs out. I do think Ted should start sliding a preferred replacement (Wolf, Gutekunst, or Ball) into increased responsibility, maybe it has already started, as this year has been a little different in operation.

4) The Packers should never play to lose, so while I'd like to see a high pick, they should always play to win and let the draft position take care of itself.

5) It is beginning to look like Hundley may not be a quality backup, but (if I were the Packers) I'd rather not make that decision until I have to. Let the season play out. If Hundley improves, consider keeping him. If he does not, find someone new.

6) I count the Vikes as a top team I like the Packers to beat, but I don't really care who wins when they don't play the Packers.

Hematite's picture

Waive Cobb and restructure Jordy.
Fire Thompson.
Go 6-10, Keep AR sidelined until next year.
Move Monty back to receiver.
Keep Hundley.
Watch the Vikings lose the Super Bowl in their house of glass.

freddisch's picture

Liked everything you mentioned,except keep Hundley. He is not NFL QB material

Hematite's picture

You're right!
I had a weak moment.

Houndog's picture

Jeez Nick, you beat me to the punch so often, and it's only 4;45 AM here in CA, and again I have to agree almost 100%.
You gotta fire Thompson and let the rest sort itself out. The fiasco(s) this year with letting Cook walk and picking up Bennett, the complete lack of a backup QB, C'mon Man! Ignoring guys like Dwight Freeney and Elvis Dumervil sitting at home early in the season while the Pack can't (until last weekend) get any pass rush to speak of. Think Casey Hayward, Micah Hyde, TJ Watt, the list goes on and on, the guy has lost whatever touch he ever had. If a new GM keeps McPuffy he'll likely demand that Capers goes, and he should, there's still more talent on that 'D' than we're seeing on the field. It's sickening!
Keep Jordy (and maybe restructure to make sure he's a lifetime Packer)
Restructure or cut Cobb.
Send Hundley back to college (as a ball boy)
Keep Monty, he was a very good (before injury) receiver as a rookie.
FIRE THOMPSON!

Houndog's picture

And Oh Yeah,
0 - forever in the Superbowl, getting their a$$e$ kicked in their own glass house!
What could possibly be better?

dobber's picture

It seems that the SB hangover is a real thing. Couldn't happen to a better team...

GB Jacker's picture

Does he not get credit for KC, Daniels, Martinez, Burnett, HHCD, King, Shields, Adams, Bahktiari, Taylor, Linsley, Tretter (O-line in general)?

Casey Hayward is a strange one as I would have kept him but Micah Hyde is not suddenly a god. TJ Watt is performing okay. Far too early to judge this draft but Kevin King has the look of a difference maker down the line. Aaron Jones and Williams already contributing a ton. Biegel, Adams, Jones all seeing time and could develop into assets.

Jahri Evans, Brooks and House all making valuable contributions on peanuts. This is the point with FA - it's a fucking minefield.

Very few people knew Bennett would be such a flop.

If you Fire TT who do you bring in as GM?

HankScorpio's picture

One year ago today, an assessment of the 2016 draft would not be as kind as the 2017 assessment above.

The 2017 season paints that 2016 class in a far different light. Kenny Clark and Blake Martinez have made huge improvements. Spriggs is on two weeks at RT with no issues. Kyle Murphy looked ok as a fill-in before he went on IR. He might be able to take Evans spot next year. Trevor Davis is the returner. Even Fackrell is showing some signs of life.

A big part of the "fire TT" crowd's ammo is based on snap judgement of his draft classes. If they don't contribute in yr 1, the class is forever labeled a bust.

GB Jacker's picture

I think we draft better than around 20 teams in the NFL. What more can you really ask for?

People also seem to ignore that Aaron Rodgers may very well never be the AR we know without the environment around him. I would say that he owes an awful lot of his success, character and skillset to the organisation, coaching staff and general atmosphere at the club.

Just look at what happens to QBs whose surrounding environment is constantly changing. GB has continuity throughout the club and that has been reflected in a ton of success and a QB who has been allowed to grow into an absolute monster - and possibly the most advanced player at the position ever.

Should we have won another ring, possibly but we've come pretty damn close consistently.

HankScorpio's picture

"People also seem to ignore that Aaron Rodgers may very well never be the AR we know without the environment around him. I would say that he owes an awful lot of his success, character and skillset to the organisation, coaching staff and general atmosphere at the club."

Aside from that, they go all revisionist history and say that Rodgers was a "no brainer" that "fell into their lap". It is 100% BS to say that Rodgers was an easy pick. TT took massive heat for it. In part because of Favre and in part because Rodgers was a product of the Jeff Tedford system which had produced a bunch of high-profile busts at QB.

But in order to paint TT as a train wreck, you have to find a way to explain away all the success the Packers have had. It starts with denying him credit for pulling off the greatest transition from a HoF QB that the NFL has ever seen.

nigrivasilayesrej's picture

You do realize that Ted tried trading out of the pick...

dobber's picture

But--in the end--he didn't, did he?

HankScorpio's picture

That's an even more pathetic attempt deny Thompson credit for drafting Rodgers than the nonsense that Rodgers "fell into TT's lap"

Johnblood27's picture

Montana to Young...

AR still chasing that one, need another SB

HankScorpio's picture

Are you saying that Steve Young was a better QB than Aaron Rodgers?

To put it mildly, I disagree.

RCPackerFan's picture

You bring up excellent points Hank.

2016 draft now looks great. Remember during the draft people wanted to overthrow Thompson because he took Clark. Clark and Martinez are 2 of the best players on defense. Lowry has played pretty well and just had his biggest game. They need Fackrell to keep improving though.

There is a reason why they say you can't grade a draft for a minimum of 3 years after the draft.

So lets look at his 2014 and 2015 drafts. I think we can rate those draft classes now.

2014 -
-Clinton-Dix
-Davante Adams
-Khyri Thorton
-Richard Rodgers
-Carl Bradford
-Corey Linsley
-Jared Abbrederis
-Demetri Goodson
-Jeff Janis

2015
-Damarious Randall
-Quinton Rollins
-Ty Montgomery
-Jake Ryan
-Brett Hundley
-Aaron Ripkowski
-Christian Ringo
-Kennard Backman

2014 yielded a pro bowl player in Clinton-Dix. A pro bowl level player in Adams. And a starter and really good player in Linsley. They got a couple of really good special teams players in Goodson and Janis late in the draft. He absolutely missed on Thornton and Bradford. Richard Rodgers hasn't been great, but he has been ok. Overall 2014 was a good draft. 4 starters, and 2 special teams players.

2015 they got Randall and Rollins who showed a ton of promise their rookie years. Then they were hurt last year. Randall is playing well now again. Montgomery I love, but has to be noted that in 3 years he will have finished the season on IR. Ryan is a good run stopping ILB. Ripkowski is probably the best most consistent player from the draft. While they didn't get great players in this draft they didn't get any huge disappointments like Thornton and Bradford.

Thompson just like any GM has hits and misses. But we have to give these players time to develop.

HankScorpio's picture

The 2014 draft from TT was a successful draft. If you're expecting more, you need to adjust expectations.

The 2015 draft was one of TT's bigger misses. Even so, the picture of Damarious Randall today is very different than it was earlier this season.

RCPackerFan's picture

Completely agree about the 2014 draft. And if you go back and look at the picks taken not far behind Thorton, Rodgers and Bradford, it wasn't like there was a lot of pro bowlers sitting there.

2015 draft was rough, no question. Randall has been good though. He is tied for 4th in Interceptions and tied for 26th in pass breakups.

Looking at those stats kind of saddened me though. 2 former Packers are tops in both of those categories. Hayward leads the NFL with 22 pass breakups, and is tied with Randall for 4th in Int's. Hyde is tied for 10th in pass breakups and is tied for 2nd in Int's.

flackcatcher's picture

Curse of the Cap my friend. Once DB became a position of need in the new NFL, there was no way the Packers could hold on to their deep group of DB starting in 2015. TT knew this, which way we saw so many FA DB and draft choices in the past three years. Packers really wanted to keep Hyde, but once the starting point on last years FA market hit 8 million, it was all over. Hyde has earned every bit that the Bills payed for him. But the Packers had paid Shields 1st tier money and we all saw how that played out. Now the Packers face the same kind of decision on Burnett. And the starting price on him will be between 12-15 million on the FA market. Like I said before. Glad I'm not Ted and Russ, a lot of hard decisions coming this off season.

RCPackerFan's picture

Oh definitely. They can't sign everyone. And after those players left not many questioned it. When Hayward left they had 2 rookies that played really well their rookie years.
Hyde was to pricey IMO for what he did in GB.

Between Burnett and Adams they have to keep Adams. I believe they drafted Jones to replace Burnett. But if they can resign him I would for sure.

Thompson and Ball have done a great job of keeping the cap in good shape. They don't have to cut players because of bad deals they sign, like other teams have to.

dobber's picture

I was reading earlier today that Seattle will likely need to keep Cam Chancellor on their active roster even though they don't expect him to return in 2017. Why? Because they have less than $200k in available cap space and can't afford to fill that roster spot by elevating a PS player or signing a guy off the street.

They might have to renegotiate another player just to have 53 guys to choose from on game day.

Thank you to John Schneider and Pete Carroll (who I believe has active say in all personnel matters).

RCPackerFan's picture

Thats interesting. I personally don't want the Packers to go and get Schneider. He makes flashy moves, but they don't always work, and as you said they are in cap trouble.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

True, but a bit weak. No, there weren't a lot of pro bowlers sitting on the board after Thornton/RR, but there were many better players. No prospect was really worse than Thornton. The house opinion on RR is higher than my own opinion that he was and is terrible, but still. Russell Bodine, Anthony Hitchens, John Brown, Mike Schofield, Brandon Linder, Bashaud Breeland, Davonte Freeman, DaQuan Jones, Martavis Bryant, Donte Moncrief, maybe Brian Stork and Ross Cockrell, probably a few more that I'm unfamiliar with, were all better than Thornton or RR, or for that matter, the two combined. A dart throwing monkey probably does better than Thornton, RR and Bradford.

Still, Dix, Adams, and Linsley = a successful draft.

RCPackerFan's picture

I'm not disagreeing that there weren't players available. But not many impact type of players.

But to be fair, if anyone knew how those players would be, they would have drafted them way earlier. After the Packers took Thornton, Moncrief was picked 5 spots after. John Brown one spot later. Jerrick McKinnon was picked 11 picks after, and 2 before Richard Rodgers. After Richard Rodgers, Freeman was picked 5 picks after. Martavis Bryant was picked 20 picks after Rodgers, and he was taken off of most people's draft boards due to his off field issues. After the Packers took Carl Bradford, the top names drafted after were Tre Boston who was picked 7 picks later, James White picked 9 picks later.

While these players have turned out to be good players, if they were that highly thought of in the draft process they would have been picked sooner. Its easy and convenient to look back and say they should have done this or that.

Duke Divine's picture

What I'm hearing here is "Fire Dom"....agreed. Aside from injuries I think Tinkering Ted has hit more than most over his time. Dom has got to go.

Hematite's picture

Dix is not a pro bowl caliber player.

rdent's picture

Hank,to say that this fire Ted Thompson movement is because of 1st year players not making contributions is not accurate and an insult to the knowledgeable posters on this site. This is now become the collective frustration of the repeated failure of the Packers since 2011 to get back to the SB and like it or not many feel this is on TT and in reality it is on TT.

HankScorpio's picture

That's not exactly what I said, rdent.

I said that snap judgements are made about draft classes and they harden into the truth forever, even if the evolving facts of the matter suggests the snap judgement was premature. It that is an insult, it sure isn't one to "knowledgeable" posters. It's not exactly hidden knowledge that it takes years for an accurate assessment of draft classes.

I've seen it written time and again that TT has had horrible drafts the last few years. That simply does not stand up to the facts. 2014 was a very good draft by any honest evaluation. 2013 may not have been great but it sure as heck wasn't horrible, either. It's still too early to say a whole lot about 2016 but it is shaping up nicely. 2015 and 2011 fit the profile of bad drafts. Maybe 2012, too. But 2011-2012 are not exactly recent either.

Let's not pretend that Capers inability to use Hayward and Hyde correctly makes those guys bad picks. They are obviously very good players that were mis-used by the defensive staff. Which is a whole other conversation than TT's ability to draft.

Let's also not forget that from 2010-2013, the Packers suffered the departure of John Schneider, Reggie McKenzie and John Dorsey. That's a whole lot of front office talent walking out the door. It's only natural that there would be a few hiccups in the re-organization to replace those guys. It puts some context on the 2011-2012 drafts.

nigrivasilayesrej's picture

Hank, I prefer to wait 4 years until grading a draft (rookie contract), so let's look at the 2013 draft.
1- Datone
2- Lacy
4- Bahktiari
4- Tretter
4 - Franklin
5- Hyde
5- Boyd
6- Palmer
7- Johnson
7- Dorsey
7- Barrington
Welp, GB has exactly 1 player from that draft left on the roster.... but hey, at least Bahktiari is a top 5 LT. Draft & Develop at it's finest!

HankScorpio's picture

It is not a particularly honest evaluation of the 2013 draft to say there is only one player remaining on the roster.

Hyde produced for 4 years in GB and Lacy for 2-3 years. Those contributions to the Packers are not washed away because they are no longer on the team. Tretter didn't produce nearly as much but he did bridge some injury issues from Corey Linsley. Not so much when he filled in at OT.

The departure of Hyde and Tretter to deals more lucrative than was prudent for the Packers will yield a couple of comp picks. That sort of renewal is part of the draft and develop concept. So in about 6 months, there will be 2 more names on the roster as the direct result of the 2013 draft.

Sam Barrington and Nate Palmer had 4 yr careers. That's the often cited league average. I don't know it that is an accurate number for the league average. But it moves the class closer to Ron Wolf's benchmark for a successful draft of 2-3 starters and 2-3 reserves

So in terms of evaluating that draft, there are 3 NFL starters in yr 5, including a premium position (LT-Bakhtiari), a starting RB that burned out quickly and another 2 that hit the 4 yr mark as NFL roster fillers. That's a far different picture than "1 guy left on the team"

And there is one more interesting name on that 2013 list...Charles Johnson. When he got away to Minny, I read all about how horrible of a mistake it was for TT to let him get away. He was going to haunt the Packers for years. You might say that he was the 2013 version of Taysom Hill. As it turned out, Johnson's career demonstrated why those people are armchair GMs and not employed by NFL teams. And suggests that they might not know nearly as much as they think they know.

nigrivasilayesrej's picture

It's not an honest evaluation to say that 1 draft pick remains on the team, when 1 draft pick remains on the team? What exactly is your definition of honesty? You can try to sugar coat it all you want, but when you draft that many players, retain 1 of them, & get absolutely nothing in compensation for your 1st & 2nd rd picks, it's a bad draft.

HankScorpio's picture

My definition of honesty is to look at all the facts. You looked at one.

For example, you said they got no compensation for their 2nd round pick. Lacy compensated them to the tune of over 4k total yards and 29 TDs in playing out his contract. By yr 4, he was all used up. That's not terribly uncommon for big, bruising workhorse backs like Lacy.

While they won't get a comp pick for him signing in Seattle, they got plenty of compensation on the field for the pick.

rdent's picture

"If you fire TT who do you bring in as GM"?
Imo they wouldn't have to bring in anyone, they have several successors in house that I believe would do a good job at GM.

dobber's picture

This is where I ask the question: based on what? No offense, I think we all believe this, and WANT to believe this.

Tell me what any of these people besides Russ Ball have done or have on their resumes to give us any reason to believe that they would be superior to TT as the Packers GM? I really don't buy genetics in this argument.

flackcatcher's picture

GM is the single most important position in sports. Owners must get it right. Failure is not an option. (see New York Giants Buffalo Bills and yes the Dallas Cowboys. ) Replacing TT could wipe out 20+ years of excellence. For that reason, Packers GM Mark Murphy rightfully is treading very carefully.

dobber's picture

I agree wholeheartedly. Knee-jerk reactions are generally bad practice. We see what's happening with the Giants, and the question is: what do they gain by canning their GM now vs. January? Their coach? If anything, they're getting ahead in the GM search market more than anything else as that tends to be less defined by the actual season (if you're willing to focus on candidates not currently in GM roles) but if you're looking for an established GM, you're not likely to be so lucky in luring them away from another franchise that is (likely) to be succeeding. About the only message you can be sending is one to your fan base and/or younger players that you're doing SOMETHING...for better or for worse.

I've always said that when you have a successful franchise, it's much harder to make a change for the better than one that hurts you: there's a lot more room to fall than to rise. As we look at Highsmith or Ball or Gutekunst or Wolf, we like to think those guys are good GM candidates...but based on what? Those guys are currently propping up the GM in many ways...but we seem to be unhappy with the GM. Ultimately the success or failure of the Packers falls at the feet of TT, but the question of those things that we see as success or failure is as much an organizational question--which includes those candidates we like so much--as it is a leadership question.

rdent's picture

"Tell me what any of these people besides Russ Ball have on their resumes to give us any reason to believe that they would be superior to TT as GM? I really don't buy genetics in this argument."Dobber, even with your attempt to skewer this "argument" by taking Russ Ball out of the equation I still believe GB has SEVERAL successors if TT is fired, (which I feel is highly unlikely) also, you bringing up "genetics" leads me to believe you were referring to Eliot Wolf, who's name if I recall was not mentioned by me in this thread until now. So now lets go down the list of in house candidates in the event TT leaves.
Eliot Wolf; 14th season in GB. 2nd year as GB's director of football operations. Has had 9 NFL scouting internships. Since 1993 has been involved in 25 consecutive drafts.
Brian Gutekunst; Entering 19th yr. with Packers player personnel dept. March 2016 promoted to director of player personnel. Has prior pro scouting and college coaching exp. In 95 worked as assistant coach with N.O. In 1998 worked as pro scouting asst. in K.C. then named college scout for east coast by Ron Wolf. Alonzo Highsmith; 19 yrs. with GB in personnel dept.Promoted to Sr. personnel exec. in 2012. First named college scout in 1999 by Ron Wolf.
It appears there are in house people who have nice resumes.

dobber's picture

I point out Russ Ball because he has a separate existence from the TT scouting regime as a negotiator/cap manager. A completely different skill set from the others, but he's not been a scout. There was a report that he's apparently been learning to scout to help broaden his profile to potentially be a GM some day. It wasn't my intent to 'skewer' an argument, but rather to point out that he's fundamentally different from the guys who seem to get all the love in this group.

There's no doubt there are potential successors and we all--me included--want to think they're good ones. But these are the people who have been propping up TT for the last umpteen years...and people are unhappy with TT and his decisions. People are quick to point out that after Schneider, Dorsey and others left town, the quality of the roster has diminished...you know, with the folks who are making recommendations to TT also living on this list as the top replacements for TT. It seems to me there's some degree of irony here.

I, along with most others here, expect that one of these folks is going to be TTs successor when the time comes. I hope beyond hope that person will be really good. The question is: what will give us any degree of certainty that they will be BETTER than TT aside from them not BEING TT that we want to cast TT aside so easily?

rdent's picture

Dobber, I believe the "get rid of TT" movement is the result of frustration for getting so close to the SB but coming up short, like last year and the 2015 NFCCG in Seattle. And add to that this year GB was considered a SB contender before AR got injured, you now have a lot of fans experiencing a huge let down. Someone is going to take the heat. I agree Russ Ball has a different skill set as Administrator/ cap manager/ player contract and has done a great job and has been considered he lacks the scouting background of Wolf or Gutekunst and I believe that is the reason they have drawn interest from other teams for GM positions while Ball has not. I will say that when TT leaves GB, they should be in good hands if Mark Murphy chooses to stay in house for the next GM.

nigrivasilayesrej's picture

In doing your homework, you made Dobber look foolish.
Nice job, rdent.

rdent's picture

Not my intent.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Glad it wasn't your intent, rdent. Your post was good, but I fail to see how it punctured Dobber's point. Hell, I thought you were largely agreeing with Dobber.

GB Jacker's picture

I think you keep Cobb and restructure Jordy. Cobb might well return on a more appropriate deal after 2018. Jordy can retire a Packer on a team friendly deal that extends his relevance in the NFL (let's assume he disappears into the abyss outside of GB, whereas he might have a long shelf life with AR as a 3-4th receiver.) Cobb is a tricky one so keep him for another year and see where we're at. Priority has to be Adams.

Keep TY as your 3rd down back and slot back up. He's a great piece to have at a good price and has tremendous roster value as he can play both WR & RB. Jones & Williams have to remain 1 and 2 as they now represent excellent value on the cap for the next 3 years.

The TED vs DOM issue is so hard to judge. I think the philosophy of your football team comes from the GM and in that respect one could argue that Ted and Dom are good at their respective jobs, but perhaps not the best match. I'd keep Ted (they'd never fire him anyway) and ditch Dom. Not sure who you bring in though. I think the defense is closer than some seem to think.

I'd rather we made it to the NFCCG - who knows we may never get back there. It's a helluva ride win or lose - I want to experience the Packers in the playoffs. I wanna watch my team play as many games per year as possible and finishing 3/4th is still a heck of an achievement.

Keep Hundley but kick the tyres on a few vets next year, maybe draft a rookie and try to upgrade. If your back up can go .500 then that's all you can ask when you have 25mill invested in your starter. Hundley might go 3-5 which isn't so bad.

The NFL is fucking hard and we were a 4-1 football club with wins over Seattle & Dallas with everything pointing up. If we somehow make it to the playoffs after the killer loss of AR then you have to give a big hand to everybody in the organisation, including Dom, Ted and fat Mike.

RCPackerFan's picture

"The TED vs DOM issue is so hard to judge. I think the philosophy of your football team comes from the GM and in that respect one could argue that Ted and Dom are good at their respective jobs, but perhaps not the best match."

This is very true.

The question for me is, are the players being used how they should be? Are they used to the best of their abilities? And is play calling giving the players the best chance to win?

A few examples of this.
Clay Mathews in 2014 Capers moved him to ILB. But he didn't have him playing the ILB role. He used him in ways to take advantage of Mathews abilities. But in 2015 he has him playing the actual ILB position and he was not effective. He basically took away what Mathews was great at.
Peppers, he had him basically playing DT on pass rushing downs, where he is a DE. Now a lot of pass rushing downs you will see Fackrell or Mathews playing that spot.

I think Thompson has brought in some good talent. (Mathews, Perry, Daniels, Clark, Martinez, King, Clinton-Dix, Jones) But perhaps not good enough. Also has he brought in the right players to fit the schemes they want to run? When Capers first came to GB he said to run the 3-4 they had to have a Stout NT, a pass rushing OLB, and a lock down CB. Do we still have those? I'd say no.

Capers has done a good job of adjusting his schemes to fit some of the players like using Burnett/Jones as a ILB/S tweener. But has he adjusted his scheme enough to fit the players he has? Or does he use the players in ways that best utilizes their skills?
An example is Jones has shown he is a tremendous blitzing option, yet hasn't really been asked to blitz since week 3-4? Clinton-Dix while he hasn't played well this year, he has been asked to drop 25-40 yards off the LOS constantly. Not many Safety's can make plays that far away.

Right now I think the defense needs a new DC. The 3-4 defense is fine. They don't need to change to a 4-3. But a new voice would do wonders.

gary g's picture

I also agree Capers should be fired. But how do you know a new voice would do wonders? Do you hear them at night yourself ?

RCPackerFan's picture

Mostly based on players comments and whatnot over the last few years from players.

We saw the tweets between Clinton-Dix and Sam Shields about not liking the plays that were called and whatnot.

There have been other talks too.

I'm not saying they don't respect him, but I think a younger more energetic Coordinator would motivate players more.

I don't know who would be a good choice to replace Capers, but its time.

dobber's picture

The other thing that could motivate players is an unwillingness by the franchise to stand pat any longer. If they let the DC go, maybe player X is next.

...and maybe the sense of failure in knowing that perhaps, if they played a little better, they could've saved that DC's job.

RCPackerFan's picture

Michelle -
Love this would you rather column. Great idea and great way to talk about a lot of topics.

"Would you rather...the Packers restructure/waive Randall Cobb or Jordy Nelson in order to re-sign Davante Adams?"
I personally would like to keep all 3. I would try to restructure both of their deals. While Nelson has lost a step and doesn't get open like he used to, he was showing early in the year with Rodgers that they are completely on the same page.
Cobb is very similar. When plays break down Rodgers knows where he can find those 2.

"Would you rather...Ty Montgomery remain at running back or move back to wide receiver?"
I think the best position for Montgomery is a new one. A tweener. Not a WR not RB. One that does both and does many different things. He should play a specialty role.

'Would you rather...Ted Thompson or Dom Capers be fired following this season?'
Its time for Capers to go. Similar to the Steelers when they let Lebeau go, they improved afterwards. The part that I can't get past is watching Hyde, Hayward, and Peppers all having better impacts elsewhere by playing different positions.
Also I would say Thompson probably should go, but I doubt he will. Unless they deemed Wolf as the successor and a team like the Giants comes calling for him. Perhaps then they would ask him to step aside.

'Would you rather...the Packers make it to the NFC Championship Game and lose, or finish the season 6-10 (i.e. lose out) but secure a high draft pick?'
Its easy to say in hindsight when you lose the Championship game that they should have finished 6-10. But there is no certainty in this game. If you have a chance to get close or get to the Super Bowl you go for it.

'Would you rather...keep Brett Hundley as the backup in 2018, draft someone new, or sign a free agent?'
I keep debating this one. Now that we know he won't get traded for anything, they might as well keep him. I do wonder though with the experience he has now if it will help him in the future. Perhaps giving him somethings to figure out in the offseason and come back a better player.
That being said if someone better is out there should they go that route?
What about an aging mostly proven veteran that might be looking for a starting role but ultimately will have to settle for a backup role? Sam Bradford, Tyrod Taylor are a couple that come to mind.

nigrivasilayesrej's picture

There are 10 teams that would love to have Tyrod as their starter. Bradford, if healthy, is a starter. Backup veteran QBs are guys like Fitzpatrick, Moore, Mallet, Hoyer.

RCPackerFan's picture

Perhaps.... Those are just a couple of names that I said might have to take a backup role.

A lot of teams will chose to go with younger QB's that they drafted. This year is going to be a pretty good draft for QB's. Might not be a lot of room for veterans like Bradford or Taylor.

Donster's picture

Waive Cobb and restructure Jordy. Though wouldn't surprise me if Jordy retires.

Fire Thompson. And Capers. MM stays for one more year. Move Baby Wolf into the GM spot before we lose him after the season is over.

This is easy for me. Go 6-10, don't let Rodgers on the field until next year. Getting into the playoffs would mean as a wild card with an extra playoff game to get to the SB. This Packer defense is so atrocious that it shouldn't have the privilege of being in the playoffs. I would love for this team to knock Minnesota out of the playoffs and win the SB in the Vikqueens own stadium. But you have to be realistic. And I am tired of seeing this team get to the playoffs only to loose because of a bad defense.

Monty back to receiver. We have two better RB's on the roster now. But he would be still be ready as a backup at the RB position.

Dump Hundley. Grab a decent FA QB. Draft one in the late rounds.

Watch the Vikings lose the Super Bowl in their house of glass. And get blown out. I didn't choose the Lions to knock them out of the playoffs because I feel that the Lions aren't going to even get there, even considering they win out with the cupcake schedule they have left to play.

Razer's picture

...The NFL is fucking hard and we were a 4-1 football club with wins over Seattle & Dallas with everything pointing up. If we somehow make it to the playoffs after the killer loss of AR then you have to give a big hand to everybody in the organisation, including Dom, Ted and fat Mike...

Well said.

GB Jacker's picture

Does anybody really think the Cowboys, Eagles, Rams, Falcons, Saints, Seahawks are going to the playoffs if they lose their starting QB for half the season?

The Rams maybe as McVay seems very capable and that defense under Wade is awesome. Seahawks if fully healthy on D possibly but the rest - not likely. It's the most important position in the sport and GB has the biggest difference maker at the position. One would likely expect GB to be the team MOST affected by such an injury - and yet we might still sneak into the mix. We're still relevant. Look at the state of the starting QBs in this league. The number of teams with reasonable QB depth can be counted on one hand. Worth having a look and considering how many wins we might expect with Austin Davis, Sean Mannion, Matt Schaub, Nick Foles, Chase Daniel (TAYSOM HILL!) - unreasonable fan expectations as per usual. 8 straight playoff births, 1 ring and 2 NFCCGs ain't worth shit. Except almost every other fan base on the planet would bite your hand off for such a run.

nigrivasilayesrej's picture

GB has gone 2-4 since losing AR, and both of their wins have been against horrible teams. Stop it.

dobber's picture

At least they've been against horrible NFC teams. If they were beating Baltimore and Pittsburgh and losing to Chicago and Tampa, the hope of a playoff bid would be taking an even bigger hit (due to poor in-conference record).

In the end, any hopes for the playoffs rest on #12, not #7. It's the fact that they have a chance to be above breakeven after this week that's what counts.

GBfaninMn's picture

Would you rather... Read and actual story, with actual information about your team, or someone's lazy attempt to stir up angry debate between fans to fill a spot on the page?

mnbruton's picture

It's funny; when I do write a well-researched, informative column, people like you tend to comment and tell me what I should have written instead. So I figured, for once, I would let the community on this page--most of whom are thoughtful and have interesting ideas--weigh in this week. (Key phrase: most of whom.)

I don't see a lot of angry debate; do you? I'm really interested to see where people stand on these subjects.

There are 52 weeks in the year. If you don't like 1/52 columns, well, sorry!

RCPackerFan's picture

Michelle -

I loved the concept of this article. It covers many topics and allows people to have some really good conversations. After all isn't that what its all about?

Also you have no need to apologize for writing anything.

You're the author and if someone has an issue with it, they simply don't need to comment on it. There is no reason to disrespect you or any of the writers. If GBfaninMn feels he or she can do a better job, then maybe they should try and write an article...
Until then they need to keep the disrespectful comments to themselves, because quite honestly I'm getting tired of seeing them on here.

dobber's picture

If people don't like only 1/52 columns, you're doing pretty well!

nostradanus's picture

Well said Michelle
Your columns and research are second to none and I am very impressed with your football knowledge. Don't let the naysayers get to you, when you put yourself out there it's bound to happen that some idiot is going to make stupid comments. I saw his comment earlier and thought dang what an A--hole. I am a musician so I understand your plight.
Keep up the good work and Happy Holidays to you and your family

Steve Cheez's picture

...or write your own column...

nigrivasilayesrej's picture

It's a good article. There are a lot of questions that need to be asked in Cheeseland, both now & during the offseason.

HankScorpio's picture

"Would you rather...Ted Thompson or Dom Capers be fired following this season?

This one forces people to ascribe either to the "Packers aren't drafting the right players" mentality or the "Dom Capers' scheme wastes the team's talent" mentality"

Why can't both be true? TT can't find LBs as well as he can find talent at pretty much any other position. Others positions have had ups and downs but LB has been a persistent issue since DC took over. Strong LB play is a requirement for a 3-4 orientated defense. So I believe both are true to at least some extent.

Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind that eliminating DC from the picture is an absolute requirement as the first part of wrapping up 2017 once the season is officially concluded.

nostradanus's picture

Good questions Michelle:

Jordy or Cobb - My heart says keep Jordy but he's already been whispering of retirement. My head says keep Cobb as he's much younger. Be that as it may I will go with my heart here and keep Jordy because he is more consistent and can play outside or in the slot.
Keep Jordy

Monty at RB or WR? - When Monty was drafted he was compared to a "bigger Randall Cobb", he has proved too brittle for a RB and with the emergence of Williams/Jones and the likely departure of Cobb, Monty is the perfect candidate for a move back to WR, he still uses #88 so that will fit right in. They can still use him like Cobb out of the backfield from time to time and as an emergency RB when untimely injuries occur.

Thompson or Capers ehh? - That's an easy one for me, I have been calling for Capers head for years. Thompson has put plenty of Defensive talent on Capers plate and he has failed again and again. The Packers should have had another trip or two to the Super Bowl were it not for Capers woefully inept and predictable Defensive schemes. The jury is out: FIRE CAPERS!

Lose in the Championship or finish 6 & 10?
That's an easy one, I always want the Packers to finish with as many wins as possible. As i have mentioned in these columns many times a losing culture is hard to overcome. The worst thing that can happen to a team is for it's fans, management and players to lose hope. Drafting high is over-rated, if a team has a good GM he will find great players in any draft.
I'll take the Championship game any time any place.

Hundley as backup or another?
The Packers already have 3 years invested in Hundley and he has skills and smarts, it has just taken his stubborn coach 6 games (and 3 seasons) to figure out how to use those skills. Unless someone comes along and offers a 3 to 4th round draft choice (which won't happen) it's better to keep Hundley for the last year of his contract. Him and Rodgers get along, he's good in the locker room and well liked and can be good if used correctly. Keep Hundley.

Vikings host Super Bowl or Lose to Lions? I would rather see the Vikings lose to the Lions and have the Lions make it to the Super Bowl and win in Minny. That would be awesome and the Lions have been pathetic for so long! Why not, it would be good to see one of our NFC North brethren teams win it all, if it can't be the Packers, might as well be the Lions (in Minny haha) Just not the Patriots again! Lions

GB Jacker's picture

Enjoyed these considered responses.

dobber's picture

"Unless someone comes along and offers a 3 to 4th round draft choice (which won't happen) it's better to keep Hundley for the last year of his contract."

Really the only hope for return on Hundley is a compensatory pick when he moves on. Even Scott Tolzein figured into the Packers picks when Indy signed him. Hundley is cheap and signed through 2018. He's going to be back next fall.

Tundraboy's picture

Ok then let's start with forcing Ted into retirement.

rdent's picture

Nostrdanus, I can agree with the bulk of your post except the comment about "a losing. culture."Going 6-10 this year and missing the playoffs for only the 2nd time since 2008 is not what I would consider a "losing culture."

dobber's picture

I tend to buy the "losing culture" argument, in general, but I think the whole mindset of this team changes when #12 walks out onto the field. If he doesn't play the rest of the way and this team goes 6-10, I think the finish will be immaterial for 2018.

cuervo's picture

Cut Cobb, he can be replaced with Monty.

I don't think TT is the problem, the problem is MM. TT doesn't hire and keep assistant coaches. TT is not the reason we have Hundley as the backup. TT is not the reason we are 4-10-1 without Rodgers. That's all on MM, who has proven he is a below average coach...he must be fired, which will take care of Capers by default.

The season to me now is about player development and seeing which young players can contribute/grow for next season and beyond. I do not see the point of sneaking into the playoffs to get destroyed once again. It would make zero sense to play Rodgers again this season, but I'm sure MM will, to try and make himself look like a "very accomplished head coach".

I hope the Vikings lose in another excrutiating way, similar to the way Farve screwed them over.

dobber's picture

"The season to me now is about player development and seeing which young players can contribute/grow for next season and beyond. "

With all the injuries, these guys HAVE been playing. I don't see that changing if they win or if they lose.

cuervo's picture

I'm aware of that....watching them is the really the only enjoyable thing about turning on a Packers game now because the product on the field is a not good.

There is too much talent on this team for the Packers to be performing this poorly, and it's only been made aware to most people because of Rodgers injury. MM must go, he is the problem and as long as he's here as the head coach nothing will change.

dobber's picture

Frankly, if your good players are medically cleared to play, they should play. The Packers have the veil of IR to hide #12 if they want, and I think they will hide him if they lose this week, but if he's able to play I think he should. It won't have anything to do with MM trying to save his job because MM doesn't make that decision.

cuervo's picture

Sorry to disagree, but that is his decision to make. Once he's cleared by the doctors, it's completely 100% up to MM to play him or not. Since his collarbone won;t have fully healed fo another 6 months, it would be idiotic to play him, risk further injury, for meaningless games.

dobber's picture

Sorry, I meant that the decision to clear the player was up to the doctors and not MM. We agree there. We also agree that #12 going back on the field is up to MM.

Frankly, the organization is committed at this point. ARod is currently using up the last recall spot because he's practicing. I agree: if the Packers lose and the games are truly meaningless with regard to post-season hopes, #12 should sit. BUT they can cover their butts and just say that the extent of his healing isn't adequate if they lose to Cleveland and not activate him.

This is where we disagree, though: if they beat Cleveland AND he's cleared, in my opinion they have to play him. I just don't see any other way about it. Professional franchises are about winning games and trying to win titles. If the playoffs are a reasonable possibility, they have to try.

flackcatcher's picture

Try, just try to tell QB1 he is not playing for the rest of the year. (HA. Good luck with THAT :) dobber, I completely agree. This is a professional sports team who has only one goal. Win. Not playing Rodgers cheats his team mates, and most of all the fans who pay (one way or another) to see him preform.

cuervo's picture

And playing him without a completely healed bone, risking serious injury, possibly derailing a career cheats the team, the fans, the entire organization and the NFL for that matter. And for what? the Packers are not going to make the playoffs, even if they win out.

HankScorpio's picture

There is always the risk of injury in football. Dr. McKenzie is notoriously cautious in clearing players. I don't see any reason he would change course and clear Rodgers to play if the risk were higher than in any other game.

HankScorpio's picture

Once you've told Rodgers that he's been cleared but won't be playing, then you have to break the news to the other 52 guys in the locker room that their leader won't be leading them. And try to convince them it is for a reason other than they are not worthy of being led by him.

If it goes down like that, no points spread would be high enough to get me to take the Packers in their remaining games. Team morale would collapse.

Handsback's picture

Good thought provoking article.
Just a couple of opinions.....First off you can fire Capers, but who replaces him? If you recall, it wasn't easy to find a D guy to begin with since several canidates turned down the job. So unless you have a strong replacement, why weaken your coaching staff? The same goes for TT and MM. You may think neither guy (TT,MM) is acceptable, but realize both would be snatched up pretty quickly as they are highly thought of in the league.

Cobb needs to be restructured, leave Nelson alone and you pay for Adams. I don't know if Allison/Davis/whoever is ready to take Cobbs spot so cutting him would lessen your number of playmakers for Rodgers. I'm not using Hundley's stats for any wideout since he hasn't proven to be a QB that can't take advantage of the players he has.

Monty is now a weapon in the backfield. My question is he too fragile to be an every down back? Is he a modern day Fred Taylor? When healthy...he can put the defense in very compromising positions.

Hundley needs some competition next year. He's not a backup in the NFL at this time.

I won't even respond to the NFC playoff game. Your talking playoffs? Playoffs? Insert Jim Mora video here! https://youtu.be/U7fjDS0jKiE

Ever since Bobby Ross was the coach of the Lions...I have more like for them verses the Vikings so yeah let the Lions beat the Viks in the playoffs.

stockholder's picture

We kept Driver. Keep Nelson and Cobb. Management must honor contracts. There's room. Adams will cost this team more money than I'd ever pay him. I say he's still not the WR of the future. He's not All-pro and when people want to lose for draft picks. ( I'll take the 3rd comp will get for him first.) I'd fire Capers. Period. TT spent a lot of draft picks on this defense. It was up to Capers to make sure they fit the game plan. The defense just needs a DC thats more aggressive and demand more than just show up. TT should just retire. Who could blame him. Monty is an accent to this team. Let him decide what he'd like to do more. MM really has done a good job with Monty and Adams. They both looked like flops. I fear another coach will not get the most of these two. Hundley - just upgrade coming. The packers should make the playoffs if they can. TT should use his draft picks to trade up, and go after better players. Especially since the depth chart continues to improve. The top 50 in every draft class is suppose to be NFL starters. To lose on purpose, when we have all those picks just does not make much sense. When teams play in the playoffs it's a much better judge of the personal. Shutting down is stupid.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

If Dom Capers is not fired, then Mike McCarthy should be fired, and if Mike McCarthy is not then fired, then Ted Thompson should be fired, and if Ted is not then fired then the board should ask Mark Murphy to be a Real Estate Manager elsewhere.

RCPackerFan's picture

So what if Capers is fired?

dobber's picture

This is starting to sound like one of those logic puzzles I bombed on the SAT.

RCPackerFan's picture

right. lol.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Then I'm good.

stockholder's picture

RC=1. I'll bet TT starts picking Defensive players Right. 2. The new DC will energize the veterans. 3. The rookies will learn what they have to do to succeed. 4. They'll end up with a Higher defensive rating. 5. They just might get a head coach in the making.

dobber's picture

"Would you rather...the Packers restructure/waive Randall Cobb or Jordy Nelson in order to re-sign Davante Adams?"

The bottom line is that the Packers need to keep weapons around #12 for this team to be good in 2018. Some are pointing to Montgomery as Cobb's replacement and rationalize that would make Cobb expendable, but recall that Monty hasn't stayed healthy regardless of where he's played. While I have a hard time faulting a player for contact injuries like a destroyed ankle or broken ribs, #88 struggles to stay on the field.

If the Packers head to the open market to sign a guy to replace a Cobb or a Nelson, anyone of quality will likely cost close to what they're cutting and trying to save (so the cap room argument gets lost). Both Cobb and Nelson still have good chemistry with #12, which can't be overlooked, and there's nobody of any real merit hiding behind Cobb, Adams and Nelson on the WR depth chart. While some drafted WR have made significant impact as rookies, most don't. Removing any of Cobb, Adams, or Nelson from the 2018 depth chart leaves the Packers terribly susceptible to crippling injury....think OLB this season or RB last season.

If I had to choose, I would try to restructure/extend Cobb and Nelson, and I'd be looking to the draft (day 1 or 2) to find a WR. Allison and Davis, in my mind, are just taking up space. Janis isn't even a WR anymore.

"Would you rather...Ty Montgomery remain at running back or move back to wide receiver?"

I agree with the post that said that Monty needs to be redefined in a different hybrid WR/RB role. His history shows he just can't stay healthy. Using him judiciously and trying to keep him in space might be the only way to keep him available. I could see him in a Percy Harvin type role (although he lacks Harvin's speed).

"Would you rather...the Vikings host their own Super Bowl, but lose, or the Lions beat the Vikings in the playoffs?"

I choose super-secret option #3: meteor strike.

I never want to see a team host its own SB. For all the effort the league has gone to over the years to try to keep the setting even, minimizing weather concerns, etc., why should one team have such a blatant advantage?

Tundraboy's picture

Go for the higher picks, and at a minimum dump DC. New approach and a dominant pass rusher or two, fast tall WR and true TE, could vault this team back into serious championship contention.

dobber's picture

This team WAS a SB favorite when #12 got hurt...even then, the DBs were sucking, the pass rush was passive, the run game was non-existent, and Martellus Bennett was invisible.

I absolutely agree: there are a lot of things this team needs, but getting #12 back is first. You could add all those things you mention, AND add just an average NFL QB to run the show, and this team is really still a fringe playoff team without QB1.

Tundraboy's picture

No doubt. All starts with ARod. I'm of the opinion that we do everything possible to add those pieces now. With the recent influx of some new talent, starting with Clark, Martinez,King, Jones.....this team will have everything it needs to win the whole dam thing. Counting on ARod to have more than 3 to 5 prime years is tempting fate, but most importantly, why wait at all.

pacman's picture

Cobb stuck around to win a SB. I don't see him doing that again. But isn't he our emergency qb? Can't judge Jordy with Hundley. Can't wait to get AR back and him catching those back shoulder passes. And he does seem to get open in the end zone. What to do with a 6' 6" Clark??

Ty - I was not happy with his running at the beginning of the season anyway. But useful option player.

DC simply has to go. MM has been found to be very lacking in his ability to judge qb's and there have been plenty of misjudgements over the years to warrant a house cleaning while AR has some years left. But based on Packer recent history, it is reasonably possible that they all come back. Where does the buck stop? Doesn't anyone have any pride anymore to let this continue for so many years?

Sad to say but D is probably so bad that it doesn't make sense to risk AR and go for playoffs. But I expect them to do it anyway. Even with AR back, it is unlikely that we make it.

Vikings - I don't see them winning the SB anyway. So I'd like to bump them off on the way. I love a good rivalry. Quite frankly, you have to admire them. No stars, solid D. More of a complete football team than we are (really sorry to say that). Packer coaches have all flopped. Now everyone knows all the coaches in GB are suspect and nobody is going to hire any of them away. Maybe we should be looking to take some of their coaches.

Hundley had MORE than a fair chance at qb and has played miserably.

Since '61's picture

I would rather cut Jordy, keep Cobb and resign Adams.
I hate to lose Jordy but Cobb is the younger player and he is more versatile than Jordy. He can still be used as an RB and a punt returner as well as a slot receiver.

Monty can be a situational player, he can be a slot receiver, an RB, maybe even as a TE in certain passing downs. Keep him to create matchup problems for the defense.

FIRE CAPERS!!! Keep TT until his contract expires.

Go for the NFCCG. Never give up! I hate the idea of tanking for any reason. Sports is about winning and winning now. Even if we were eligible for a top ten pick, which we're not, the draft is still a crap shoot. This is professional football, play like pros and play your best regardless of the score or the standings. That much is owed to your employer, your team mates and the fans.

Keep Hundley as a backup. I would say no. Draft a QB and sign an FA QB with experience. After 3 seasons Hundley should be a better player and better prepared than he has proven to be so far.

I would prefer for the Vikings to lose to the Lions in the playoffs. However, in reality, I really don't care what happens with them or any other team once the Packers are eliminated.

Thanks, Since '61

Jamie Freier's picture

Sign Adams, restructure the other 2 if they will. I like Cobb just from a brief chance meeting one time, strikes me as humble, respectful, and just a really nice guy. But it is a business. Montgomery, eh they can do whatever, maybe even trade for a pick. Thompson should go, Capers should have lost his job after that SF playoff nightmare. Does he have blackmail material or something that's securing his job? Finish 6-10 for a high pick and get Arden Key if he's still available, I wouldn't want to risk Rodgers getting hit or being slammed to the ground on a collarbone that won't be fully healed for another what, 4 months, for this lousy season. And finally, Hundley needs to go he's the personification of inconsistent.

croatpackfan's picture

1. Restructure Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb contracts (if Randall Cobb would not accept, than arange friendly trade) and sign Davante Adams, To explain, I like Randall Cobb a lot, but Packers have Ty Montgomery - larger Randall already on the roster...

2. I would rather see Ty Montgomery in as WR who occasionally steps in as RB, than full RB load. He should replace Randall Cobb.

3. As I really believe that anyone can be replaced, I have no wish regarding this issue. If Packers decide to part their ways with either TT or DC, or with both of them, I will be fine and still root for the Packers with whole my heart.

4. There is no guarantee that higher draft positions will produce better players for Packers. So, taking that in consideration, I would love to see Packers fighting for another SB every year. This season is so strange that everything can happen. And I think that noone, never ever should give up, because you never know what can happen and who can help you on your way to your goal.

5. I would prefer If Packers will be able to trade Brett Hundley for 4th or 5th round pick and move on from him. Not because of Brett, but because, he is not, by my opinion, type of player that suits Packers team well.

6. If I have to chose between that two options I chose Vikings to advance to NFCCG and lose that game to Packers!

Thats all from me...

Chris Scoggins's picture

Fire Capers, waive Cobb and move Ty to the slot.

AK Cheese's picture

I HATE going to the playoffs and getting embarrassed, if you are not going all the way, watch it from your couch.

Pay Adams.

Trade Cobb.

Monty back out wide.

Give the ball to the Ripper.

RCPackerFan's picture

'I HATE going to the playoffs and getting embarrassed, if you are not going all the way, watch it from your couch.'

When is the last time we Truly got embarrassed in the playoffs?

2016 - lost to the Falcons 44-21. Sure that may seem embarrassing, but look at the facts of the game. They didn't have enough bodies to finish the game. 3 of their top 4 WR's shouldn't have been playing. They lost their RB early. And by the end of the game they had 2/5ths of there starting OL intact. They had to have Guion play OG.

2015 - They lost in OT to the Cardinals

2014 - Seattle debacle. Sure some will call it embarrassing, but honestly it was just disappointing because they had that game won.

2013 - They lost to the 49ers by 3. And if Hyde catches the interception they win that game.

2012 - This was their biggest embarrassing loss. This was Kaepernicks breakout game.

2011 - Giants game. That game they came out extremely flat and had no energy. Most including myself feel that game was more based on the events of Philbin losing his son that week.

So in reality the last true embarrassing loss was 2012.

AK Cheese's picture

Anytime you lose it's an embarrassment.

croatpackfan's picture

"I HATE going to the playoffs and getting embarrassed, if you are not going all the way, watch it from your couch."

1. You can always stay home and not going to the playoffs...

2. Connected to point 1. you can watch them all from the couch than...

3.I have to admit I did not know that you were in playoffs, so can you explain me how you embarrassed yourself, so I may remember you...

dobber's picture

"I HATE going to the playoffs and getting embarrassed, if you are not going all the way, watch it from your couch."

They only way you can go all the way is to take a shot. There's no way to truly tell prior to getting there.

As Yoda says: "Do or do not. There is no try."

Pauly's picture

2018 Draft the Packers have 12 picks so far.
10 of them in first 5 rounds.
How will TT use them? Will he trade up for some elite talent??
I believe in 2018 there is a need for 2 top FA players. 1 TE and 1 fast #1 WR. AR needs the experienced players now!!
Ty can replace Cobb.
Jordy wants to retire back to Kansas.
Keep CMIII and use in the middle.
Give RB Mays some more chances to see what he can do.
Better for AR's and the team's future to be drafting @ # 7 spot than playing AR too early and possibly limping into a wild card 1 and out situation..

stockholder's picture

12 picks- Try these 1. Wilkins dt, 2. Malik Jefferson lb, 3. Dantee Pettis Wr ,4. Reggie McKinzie Dt . A TE and T will be taken. there's 6.

CJ Bauckham's picture

Keep Cobb and restructure Jordy. Use Ty as a 3rd down back/slot tweener. Fire Dom. Go to the NFC Championship game. Bring in a vet QB and a rook; if Hundley can't outplay them in training camp, cut him. I'd love to see the Vikes lose in their own house.

In addition, I'd keep Janis and make him the KR again. Put Cobb on PR's, and dump Davis. He has not impressed me overall.

jhalwas611.com's picture

I'd move on from Cobb with Montgomery in the slot with Allison. May try and restructure Jordy to a retirement friendly contract.Thompson should go retirement and promote Wolf. Keep Hundley but get a Qb coach who will work with him in simulated game conditions. I'm not a believer in settling for a losing season to advance in the daft. I really don't care what happens to the Vikings/Lions if the Packers aren't playing the Super Bowl. They won the first and most important one!

Free agent's picture

I would rather retire from my bread route so I don’t have to get out of bed at 2:30 A.M.

TXCHEESE's picture

I agree Monty can replace Cobb, but I agree that it would be better to move on from Davis and keep Cobb and Janis as returners. We know Jordy can play the slot as well. I'm OK with Thompson. Most folks on here have to admit, the roster looked very promising going in to the season. They weathered the OL injuries probably better than most teams. I would like to personally hand Dom Capers his walking papers. Same problems with the middle of the field being wide open for several years, and now this year they can't defend a screen! Definitely would choose losing in the NFCCG over no playoffs. Once GB is out, I have no real excuse to sit on my rear for 3-4 hours every weekend. Definitely would like to see the Vikes upset in the playoffs (especially by GB early). I don't think I could handle their fans on the message boards for that long even if they did lose the SB.

Tundraboy's picture

I think I may be changing my mind. The one game I want to win is the Vikings game but to meet them in the playoffs and knock them out would make this season very special.

dobber's picture

Especially since that game would be in Minnesota...

Tundraboy's picture

The only problem I have with TT, and it's a big one, is relying almost solely on the draft and UDFAs, and ignoring glaring needs for years on end. Coaching is another matter.

HankScorpio's picture

In that case, are you looking at him differently in light of adding bargain bin FAs like Jahri Evans, Davon House and Ahmad Brooks to go with a mid-level signing of Martellus Bennett?

He added a pass rusher, a pass catcher, a cover guy and protection for Rodgers. He wasn't successful in all of the signing but that is how FA works. The failure rate may not be as much of a crap shoot as the draft but it is close. And TT certainly did not ignore those areas of weakness.

Tundraboy's picture

ILB, S, TE, and now OLB.

HankScorpio's picture

I'm afraid I don't see the point.

Calling S a need coming into 2017 is ludicrous. HHCD was coming off a Pro Bowl year and Morgan Burnett is a better player than HHCD. They drafted Josh Jones and had Kentrell Brice and Marwin Evans. Certainly the events of 2017 are painting HHCD in a different light. Hindsight is 20/20.

As I mentioned, TT added a TE and OLB. Two TEs, in fact. They didn't work out. Are you under the impression that signing a vet FA is a sure thing?

He didn't add an ILB in the offseason. The offseason plan was to plan Burnett and/or Jones at ILB a fair bit. So it's not like they didn't recognize the need for improvement and put a plan in place. A plan that has worked elsewhere in the NFL.

GVPacker's picture

It's time for Capers to retire and bring in a new DC. Ted Thompson is not going anywhere unless he himself decides to retire.

Fordham Ram's picture

"Would you rather...Ted Thompson or Dom Capers be fired following this season? This can be answered with a quote, "you are what your record says you are " these guys haven't been fired 'cause how can you argue with 8 straight and a Super Bowl. Capers especially has been riding this coattail. Capers, feeling the heat more than ever possibly retires this year to save face rather than wait and get axed outright.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

1. Trade Cobb if possible, even for a 7th. If not, cut him. $9.5M should easily buy a better WR, probably a speedy boundary guy who isn't a #1 WR.

1a. Restructure Jordy. Move to slot. Keep him even if he won't take a pay cut.

2. Monty = 3rd down RB and back up slot. He is a downgrade from Cobb as a slot WR.

3. Fire Capers. I am okay with the fire MM if he refuses to fire Capers (or if he refuses to fire Zook). I'd like to see Moss and Darren Perry depart as well.

3a. I lean towards firing TT.

3b. For the love of $#!%, fire Zook.

3c. I'd fire MM and every coach other than Whitt, Campen, and maybe Tygovac and Montgomery. Edgar Bennett can stay if he wants to go back to being a position coach.

4. Make it to the conf. championship game. Largely this is just the way I think. If the upcoming draft was extremely top heavy in talent, or extremely deep like in 2017, that circumstance might shake my belief system.

5a. Keep BH. He has no trade value and can be re-evaluated after TC and preseason.

5b. FA probably for the back up QB.

6. Don't care: if we don't, the Patriots can win the SB for all I care. I really hate Pete Carroll, but not that much, probably.

As for firing TT, Mark Murphy should know which players Elliott Wolf, Gutegunst, Ball, etc., recommended should be drafted at each spot for the last umteen drafts. Maybe (insert advisor's name) lobbied hard for Thornton, RR and Bradford?

Nate-1980's picture

Agree completely with everything except I think Monty will be an upgrade over Cobb.. He’s just never had the chance to do so, Cobb has lost a step and is always injured.. His salary is hurting this team along with cm3, time to trim the fat.. Jordy even at his age is an important part of this offense, he’s clutch, and is always near the top or leader in tds every year..

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