Expect the Worst and Be Pleasantly Surprised

Thinking through life beyond Rodgers.

Pessimism has always served me well as a Packers fan.  I have conditioned myself to expect and prepare for the worst, so that if anything less than the worst happens, I am pleasantly surprised.  Whenever Green Bay has a big game coming up, I go into it convinced we will lose.  That way, an actual loss is not as devastating, and a win is all the more jubilant.  I know it’s cockeyed logic, but it has kept me sane all these years. 

 

Therefore, I have forced myself to begin envisioning what kind of team Green Bay would have without Aaron Rodgers.  I am assuming, expecting, preparing for the worst case scenario, that Rodgers will never play for the Pack again.  Of course, the knee jerk is to figure the team will immediately sink into mediocrity or worse.  I am old enough to have gone through the dark period with this team (1968 through 1992). 

 

I remember the quarter century struggle to find a quarterback who could replace Bart Starr.  I watched the team desperately run through Don Horn, Scott Hunter, a washed up John Hadl, Jim Del Gaizo, Jerry Tagge, David Whitehurst, Lynn Dickey (who was actually pretty good but couldn’t stay healthy), Randy Wright, Don Majkowski, Anthony Dilweg and Blair Kiel.  The Packers made the playoffs just twice during that quarter century, winning just one playoff game. 

 

How bad was It?  In the 24 seasons from 1968 through 1991, Green Bay had a winning record just four times.   The average number of wins per season was six.  Six times during that span the Packers won just four games.     

 

We all saw how the modern day team staggered with the likes of Brett Hundley and Deshone Kizer at the controls.  Is that what we’re in for?  

 

But then I take a good, hard look at this team.  I mean a really hard look, and I find myself in danger of manifesting that most dangerous of all emotions.....encouragement.  Or worse yet (gulp),... hope!  

 

Maybe I’m just in denial.  But this still looks like a pretty good football team.  We have an All Pro receiver with a supporting cast of dependable pass catchers who also block well.  We just drafted a prototypical slot receiver who can also return kicks.  We are loaded on the offensive line with an array of versatile, young talent which includes two of the best in the game in David Bakhtiari (when he comes back) and Elgton Jenkins.  We have a top five running back in Aaron Jones, backed up by an extremely promising power runner in AJ Dillon. 

 

The defense is getting better.  Not sure I’m on board with Brian Gutekunst’s statement that Green Bay is close to having a “dominant” defense, but it is improving.  It’s a unit that played well enough down the stretch in 2020 to make the Super Bowl.  Remember it was the sputtering 4th quarter offense that lost the NFC championship game.  There are All Pro level players on all components of the defense, Kenny Clark on D-line, Za’darius Smith at linebacker, and Jaire Alexander at corner.  Others like Rashan Gary and Darnell Savage seem on the verge of stardom.  Mason Crosby remains one of the most reliable clutch kickers in the league. 

 

All told, that’s a strong supporting cast for young quarterback Jordan Love if he is thrust into the starting job.  Matt LaFleur’s creative offense can make it easier on him as well.  A strong running game mixed with short, quick release passes in the flats, jet sweep shovel passes, and the occasional play action fake and downfield bomb.   

 

I went back and re-watched Love’s film from Utah State.  Dang people, it looks like this kid can play.  Strong, accurate arm on the long ball.  Escapability from the pocket and poise throwing on the run.  Reasonably fast, can tuck it and get a first down with his legs.  Sure looks like there is an NFL quarterback there once he learns to read defenses and get comfortable with the playbook.  I couldn’t help but get a little excited over what he could be over time. 

 

Losing Aaron Rodgers is not anyone’s preference, but if he does depart, remember also that Green Bay will have more money to work with.  Money to extend Davante Adams and Jaire, perhaps money to lure some helpful free agents.  If the Packers trade Rodgers, there should be multiple first round picks coming, and maybe even a veteran signal caller who can handle things until Love is ready. 

 

There is currently no other team on the verge of taking over the NFC North.  So I’m going to go ahead and say it.  The Packers can still be a division champion contender and playoff team even if QB12 is gone.  At least, that’s my fantasy and I’m sticking to it.  Will they be good enough to win a Super Bowl?  Not for awhile.  But hey, they're not doing that now even with QB12.  They've lost four, count them four, NFC championship games.  Rodgers has, maybe, two or three good years left.  Love may have sixteen.    

 

Oh my god.  Save me.  I think I’m in danger of becoming.....an Optimist! 

 

 

 

-----------------------------------

Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.

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22 points

Comments (125)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
NickPerry's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:01 am

Last week I went back and looked at Loves highlights too Ken. A friend of mine at the office and I watched some of his highlights and came away pretty impressed. Obviously those highlight tapes show ONLY the good but I also looked at some 2018 tape on my own and was MORE impressed. In 2019, Loves last season at Utah St., he had a new HC, new OC, and IIRC 9 NEW starters on offense. For all of you bagging on the kid for regressing his final season just stop! Trevor Lawerence would have struggled under those circumstaces!

Now I admit, I'm the exact opposite of Ken. I'm one of the BIGGEST HOMERS on CHTV. But I too like the roster Gute has built. I think this defense under Joe Berry is going to take a big step forward. I think Gary, Savage, AND guys like Barnes and Kamil Martin take a jump too. Call me crazy but since Preston Smith had a down year last season with sack numbers, he'll have a big jump in sacks this year.

On offense the Packers have a solid O-Line with a chance to be dominating. Josh Meyers is NASTY and so is Jon Runyan Jr who both IMO will be starting. This team is going to run even more this year, with or without Rodgers. I remember when Old School used to tell us here on CHTV that this was going to be a running team and we laughed. With Jones, Dillon, and that O-Line I'm not laughing anymore.

With or without Rodgers this team will compete. Obviously I'd rather have him back but if that doesn't happen so be it. The Packers are going to be fine because GUTE has built a solid team.

22 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:51 am

Great commentary Nick!

Furthermore, should Love take over it will become even more a running team as I have no doubt he will scramble more than Rodgers putting additionalstress on the defense, particularly the early years with younger legs while he learns to read defenses better.

9 points
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dobber's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:19 am

My understanding is that Love was not really what you'd call a running QB in college. He'd averaged 4 or fewer carrries per game over his first two seasons at less than 3.6 per. His final season that ballooned to 81 carries at 2.2 ypc, but if you watch the film, he was frequently running for his life....especially against better teams.

I agree in that he has good mobility. The question is whether he has pocket presence and can feel the rush well. Those are things that are harder to develop, and if he's still hearing footsteps after that junior year, that's a problem.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:07 am

Other than the footsteps, your description reminded me strongly of Rodgers (without the Tedford technique issues). Remember that he wasn’t seen as mobile?

I like QBs who can move but don’t predicate their game on doing so. They tend to be better in pocket, learn to read the rush and routes and to survive better physically.

8 points
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Turophile's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:55 am

Another good point, Coldworld. Rodgers (when he became the starting QB) showed significantly better elusiveness than most people expected. He also showed an arm strength that was a good deal more powerful than people expected. He could (and probably still can) throw a Hail Mary with the best of them.

Even now, some underestimate his strength because he doesn't 'frozen-rope' fastballs when it isn't needed (like Favre often did).

2 points
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Philarod's picture

May 11, 2021 at 07:39 am

If anyone (not you) ...still...underestimate Rodger's arm strength (or accuracy, for that matter), I don't know what they've been watching all these years.

0 points
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CoachDino's picture

May 10, 2021 at 02:06 pm

My understanding was SF took Trey Lance with the idea that the scheme they run features a % of plays that aren't QB runs but QB mobility options (I'm assuming) more misdirections, boots etc that take advantage of the mobility. They can become RPO's giving the QB the option to run. Not down the middle of the field for big yards but to the sidelines for the first down, or down field inside the end containment and slide for short yardage etc.... I read somewhere that MLF had the same package but hasn't implemented it.

Love is the real deal, it's his 2018 tape that shows what he can do with a supporting cast and knowledge of the offense. Simms made some good points when evaluating his 2019 tape, more or less that he plays to win and had to take chances that in the previous year he wouldn't have. He still saw some poor decisions but his point being most of the interceptions he classified as understandable. He wasn't playing for stats but to win and if your down a couple scores with limited time left you can either play to win or play to salvage. He plays to win.

I'm very excited about seeing what this kid can do but I'm also a realist. AR is a great QB and I'm so used to expecting completions when he throws, it's not like that across the NFL or as ken stated in the Packers 68 to 91 history.

Also like the fact we are talking about the salary cap and the positives if AR does leave, not so much this year but next and beyond. It's a big Deal. How many quality starters can you add to your roster for 40M/Year?

3 points
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greengold's picture

May 11, 2021 at 07:08 pm

I know how used you are, we all are to seeing completions, but JL throws his share of dimes as well, from every kind of release point imaginable. Who knows, Dino? Imagining a 50 year run of QB supremacy... we’ll see. Thinking we are in for some fun.

1 points
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CoachDino's picture

May 12, 2021 at 02:04 pm

Love it - why Not!!!

1 points
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Tundraboy's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:23 am

Thanks NP You improved my outlook. I can envision a year where Rodgers stays, we win it all, and then demands to be traded!

3 points
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greengold's picture

May 10, 2021 at 10:02 am

Never did I think I'd ever say this, but, NickPerry, I love you.

ha! WOW!!!! OldSchool! I miss that guy. We had been talking Packers stuff back and forth for decades on various platforms. Yeah, he's right. We are RUNNING THE ROCK this year.

I can't wait to see it.

As for Love, don't fight the Love, people!!!! I am 100% confident he will get the job done. Moreover, I believe Matt LaFleur will see to that becoming a reality.

4 points
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kozmo's picture

May 10, 2021 at 01:38 pm

Dont look at his highlights.... thats the good stuff he did, take a look at the games...I have NO idea why they drafted him....I get it, get a qb but this kid threw a lot of picks, didnt look at all accurate ...can anyone say Brett Kaizer....was that his name....Gute and Lefluer's jobs are on the line if this kid cant play and t be honest I dont think he can

-3 points
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MWendlandt's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:17 pm

And in 2019 he had not just any new coach, but Gary Anderson. Any Badger fan knows how good of a coach he is. His offenses were really "offensive."

0 points
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PhantomII's picture

May 12, 2021 at 02:29 pm

New OL and New WR's also....9 starters gone.....

0 points
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BJP's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:06 am

I’m curious how QB-friendly Matt LaFleur’s offense really is. Does Aaron’s improvising really help or would the offense be even better if Aaron simply let the system create big plays using Aaron’s incredible talent?

7 points
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Oppy's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:17 am

Rodgers has gone through streaks over the last two seasons where he executes the offense more in line with how it's intended- this usually happens when Adams is sidelined - and the offense has looked methodical and unstoppable during those stints.

There's no question how QB friendly the system is. That's been on display in Denver (and other places) for years. I do think a big arm talent with high football IQ can elevate it, how could it not. However, I think there have been times where Rodgers gets tunnel vision and is only looking for the back-breaking play, instead of taking what's right in front of him for easy pick ups.

I don't think Love (or any other inexperienced QB) steps in and the offense 'doesn't miss a beat', but the team and offense is built to make that transition and give the Packers a good chance to continue winning in the North while a young QB learns the ropes and comes into his own. It's really a run first offense that uses deception to give the QB free options.

13 points
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Coldworld's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:10 am

In contrast the late MM system required everyone to just beat their man, without schematic help or adaptation to individuals. That was a system that put an extremely high burden on the QB as well as others.

3 points
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Turophile's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:46 am

Very true Coldworld, even though it took a new head coach to really bring home the limitations of the previous one.

2 points
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flackcatcher's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:55 pm

Yes and no CW. The classic West Coast and the current MLF scheme are very similar. The real difference lies in the blocking scheme and move TE/H-Back vs the second TE/FB in the west coast. McCarthy changed his scheme to a one back spread to take advantage of Rodgers ability to read coverages at the LOS. Strangely, Rodgers seemed to have problems with the scheme to the point that MM reverted back to the west coast in 2013. The other long standing issue is Rodgers locking on to one WR and never looking off even under MLF play action scheme.

0 points
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Tundraboy's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:27 am

Excellent point. I wonder that nearly every game of late.

3 points
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jont's picture

May 10, 2021 at 01:12 pm

Perhaps LA Rams give a clue. Simialr O in a lot of ways, and an ordinary QB (Goff) didn't quite get it there.
Meanwhile, Love hasn't been hit since Dec 2019 so "learning curve" comes into play as well

0 points
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CoachDino's picture

May 10, 2021 at 02:49 pm

"I’m curious how QB-friendly Matt LaFleur’s offense really is"

look at it this way. AR performance trend before this offense, AR performance trend after.

2 points
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greengold's picture

May 10, 2021 at 02:54 pm

Not only that, but Matt Ryan before and after. Both won MVPs under LaFleur's guidance.

0 points
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MWendlandt's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:20 pm

Also, RGIII's rookie season.

1 points
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Turophile's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:31 am

Just the headline on it's own is worthwhile, Ken.

I had the luck of beginning supporting the Packers back in 1989, when we were seeing a fair few games in the UK. I deliberately picked a team to support that was not one of the high-fliers (back then) and the Packers fit that bill. That turned out to be an outstanding choice, given their record since then.

I could so easily have picked the Bears off the back of their 85 team, but wanted something more obscure. I never knew about the uniqueness of the Packers organisation then, or their long history, public ownership, etc - that was all gravy on top. Your "Expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised", fits my decision back then perfectly.

I don't see any way we get a third HOF QB, but there are other ways to win. A lesser QB with good talent around him and a top 10 defense can take you all the way, if you have some luck (not too many injuries).

I think this team is a fairly strong one, so while any move on from Aaron Rodgers will certainly be a downgrade, other elements of the team can take up the slack. I have no idea, along with everyone else, how Love turns out, but I'll never criticise management for rolling the dice on a QB succession plan - they have to look at the future, as well as the now.

14 points
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murf7777's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:55 am

You’re right a team can win and possibly all the way without a top 5 QB, but they won’t win consistently without said QB. As Vic says, “you have to have the man”.

2 points
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PhantomII's picture

May 12, 2021 at 02:26 pm

An Elite Defense does wonders for everyone.

0 points
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nostradanus's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:13 am

I too have watched almost every Jordan Love game available. What I see is a player who teases with arm talent yet throws the big interception at the wrong moment almost every game. Jordan doesn’t see the field or ready the defense well at all. This is going to be a major problem in the NFL. There are certain tendencies you just can’t coach out of a player and though Love throws a pretty ball he just doesn’t come up big or will his team to victory. An example of a QB that does this is Russel Wilson, even though his game isn’t always perfect he just has a way to raise the level of the players around him. I don’t see this at all with Love, I hope I’m wrong but to me Jordan Love=Deshone Kiser II.

-2 points
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Turophile's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:30 am

While it's true that sometimes you can't coach tendencies out of a player (remember CB Ahmad Carroll's tendency for being grabby and the boxing gloves), there could hardly be a better QB to sit behind than Rodgers, if you want to show someone how to avoid interceptions.

6 points
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dobber's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:06 am

"(remember CB Ahmad Carroll...."

Oh, God, please no.

4 points
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jeremyjjbrown's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:38 am

The knock on Mahomes was his decision making, it can be coached.

3 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:00 am

These guys come from college teams that have certain systems and tendencies. Where they are given permission to play in specific ways. Therefore, they can often be coached. Sitting one whole year behind Rodgers and during an MVP season no less had to been extremely helpful.

Ken, a great future article would be doing a deep dive on Rodgers tendencies coming out of college. Then sitting behind Favre the gunslinger. How much did sitting behind Favre change Rodgers game approach. Then compare with Love tendencies and playing behind Rodgers.

6 points
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dobber's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:12 am

Absolutely: he'll have plenty of time to see the nuances of the system, to watch game film of others playing the game and breaking down the individual plays. When he gets on the field, it's more likely he plays mostly within the system.

Remember, too, that the knock on Rodgers was that he had some "Tedford-trained" issues and other mechanical pieces that needed to be refined out of his play. Love getting practice reps to ingrain better habits and reads into his psyche rather than going out and weekly reverting to bad habits in game situations is not a bad thing.

7 points
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jeremyjjbrown's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:27 am

If you blurred out Rodgers head between Cal and GB you'd think it was a different person.

The Packers coaching staff completely changed Rodgers throwing motion. They kept the nice wrist flick action he had in college but removed the Ted Tedford style high hold and added in a more Favre like shoulder drive with improved footwork. In fact Rodgers footwork regressed terribly in the years before 2020 and only when he finally noticed it on film (no idea how it was missed, Alex Van Pelt is apparently blind) did he fix it and have an MVP season.

3 points
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Turophile's picture

May 10, 2021 at 01:33 pm

I believe I read back at the start of Rodgers career that they (the staff) never tried to lower the high 'Tedford' position that Rodgers had been taught. The wisdom (back then) was that over time it would naturally come down...................and it seems it did.

2 points
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jeremyjjbrown's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:05 pm

All the better.

0 points
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Guam's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:35 am

Very, very few college QBs come out NFL ready. The question is, can Jordan Love continue to learn and develop? I know I would prefer he have another year or two behind Rodgers as he did look raw at Utah State. I am not ready to judge Jordan Love yet, but I sure would like to see him in some preseason games and mop up action in regular season games before the Packers have to decide whether he is their starting QB or not.

6 points
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greengold's picture

May 10, 2021 at 10:41 am

Oh, stop. NO WAY. Jordan Love threw only 6 INTs in 2018.

You are throwing garbage out there, clouded by a gigantic loss of talent in front of Love in all of 2019. Way to pee in the pool, nostradanus.

Jordan Love's Utah St. record 2018: 11-2 overall

Jordan Love's Utah St. record 2019: 7-6 overall - That is going to happen in a new system with all the new players they had. Losing 4 starting OL and 3 of your top WRs?

6 points
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Swisch's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:14 pm

If we're talking about former quarterbacks of the Packers as precedents, consider Bart Starr as someone who did very little in college, and then was a flop as a pro his first two or three seasons -- and on top of this did not have a strong arm.
According to Jerry Kramer, he was practically invisible as a presence on the team.
As I understand it, even Lombardi wasn't all that impressed with Starr -- and wavered about his capability to be the field general for the Packers -- until perhaps late in his second season as coach.
There are a lot of question marks with Jordan Love, but we have good reason to hope that the talent is there to be one of the top quarterbacks in the NFL.
Also, it seems the LaFleur offense will give him lots of help in finding open receivers for quick and short passes, while still allowing him ample opportunities to make the big plays.
The key to Love is going to be his inner drive and dedication and discipline; his leadership abilities; and in general his character to be a leader of men.
He could do worse than studying the life and career of Bart Starr -- 1966 MVP, winner of five championships in seven seasons with a total playoff record of 9-1, and right up there with Brady and Montana in the discussion for greatest quarterback of all time.
We would do well as fans to give him a fair opportunity and plenty of encouragement.

1 points
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MWendlandt's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:24 pm

Whenever he takes over, Jordan Love's best friends on offense will be Amari Rodgers and Josiah Deguara. They'll be the Pierre Garcon and Chris Cooley of the modern Shanahan-style offense.

1 points
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jeremyjjbrown's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:32 am

"Not sure I’m on board with Brian Gutekunst’s statement that Green Bay is close to having a “dominant” defense"

Me either. Every Dominant Defense I have ever seen had a dominant defensive line and a very good ILB. I think the materials are there for a possible good ILB group. But I have no idea who is going to help out Kenny Clark. Keke has flashed but Lowry and Lancaster are just guys. I hope Gute knows something I don't know.

5 points
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Since'61's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:46 am

Jeremy if they let Gary play he can become a dominant player, who in turn can pick up the level of play for the rest of the defense the way Reggie White did when he joined the Packers in 1993. Having said that I share your concern about the state of our DL after Clark. I'm hoping that Slaton can help on running downs as a rotational player as the season goes on. Thanks, Since '61

5 points
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jeremyjjbrown's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:09 pm

Maybe Z and Gary are going to play with their hands down more. I wouldn't have a problem with it.

2 points
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porupack's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:34 am

You're right, there is hope, especially if GB has lots of cap space. But there have been a dozen super good teams in the NFL that just lacked a consistent QB performance, a couple were in the NFC North.

I lost respect for Rodgers. If he was a professional, he would have: 1) given consideration for how to keep/reward his Oline stalwarth: Linsley. No. it was "all-me" Rodgers. 2) If he really wanted out, he could have done at a time when it would have been a win-win for the packers, and assure that his desire would more likely be met. At the opening of the Free Agency period would have been the time that GB could have maxed out value in a trade, and Rodgers probably gets where he would like to be....and could prob have been SF before SF invested in the trades. Possibly could have been a Wilson for Rodgers trade with Seattle.

But no, he chose a time when GB had few options to work with. Jerk.

0 points
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7
porupack's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:55 am

I digressed a bit.... so, I'll comment back to the subject. Yes, a solid team, but as a poster recently said, you're needs (and standing) is apparent by the teams that beat you last. So, even with Rodgers, GB still had holes against the top caliber teams (even taking into consideration Baktiari' game scratch mattered). Certainly, Love (or any other QB) will represent a significant fall off.

The other change from this year, and possible reason for hope is the change from Pettine. Change is good, et? Considering decent talent on D, the pack just had odd lapses and chronic areas of weaknesses for a decade that opposing smart teams knew how to exploit. Here's to hope in Barry can lead to a higher plateau where Capers and Pettine could not.

We all suspect Rodgers made some WRs better performers than their actual talent. I guess we'll see? Part of me is so curious about such debated questions for so long, that I would just love to see a year what the team does, so we have a good research design and just settle some of these debates. system vs rodgers, coach makes rodgers, or rodgers makes the coach.

3 points
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EricinGB's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:39 am

Packers PR now appear to be floating out a Rodgers/Brees comparison as a cautionary tale. It is a comparison suggesting performance decline with age, and comparing Rodgers to Brees seems to be something a Packers proxie is attempting to promote. Comparing one of the strongest passing arms (per NFL experts) against arguably one of the weakest arms with rotator cuff issues suggest this is what the Packers were thinking when they decided to draft Rodgers replacement giving up a 1st and a 4th in 2020 to do so. The only way the 2020 and 2021 drafts make sense is if the Packers intended to replace Rodgers with their first round QB as planned in 2022 and trade Aaron Rodgers for "valuable" draft picks while expecting the offensive line replacements hold up while Rodgers' (expected?) 2021 performance slides to validate the stratregy...but Rodgers has something to say too...fresh of an MVP season, we are now seeing the downside to this strategy...alienating and losing Rodgers a year earlier than "planned" with his 2021 preformance suggests the likelyhood Rodgers continues to play at an NFL pro-bowl level through 2025. Whithout Rodgers, Packers risk surrendering supremacy in the NFC division during the same period... time will tell if what we are really witnessing is a cautionary tale on how not to manage an NFL franchise moving forward.

-4 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:40 am

Absolutely awesome article Ken! Love the way you wrote it and like you GULP, I feel very positive about this Packer team and about Love at QB.

3 points
6
3
Befuddled's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:49 am

Rich Campbell was another quarterback failure drafted #6 in the 1st round. Both Devine and Starr were head coach-gm's that proved having both jobs is too much for one person.........Mike Sherman

4 points
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Tundraboy's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:38 am

The worst of the bunch .True example of meh.

3 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:01 am

I'm at this point of the conversation where IF Rodgers comes back he does. IF he doesn't, he doesn't. Do I want him back? Hell yeah I do. But the other part of it is what is the cost of it?

I'm also at the point that says, if he is that upset with a few people with management and can't get over it and does infact move on from GB one way or another, then he is putting those few ahead of his teammates, his coaches, and the millions of fans.

The hard part right now is that no one knows anything about Love. He had no normal preseason last year due to covid. He didn't have any preseason games. All he had was a few practice reps. He really needs a full offseason and training camp to see how much of an improvement he has made.
Just in my mind right now, i think that is why now is the perfect time for Rodgers to gain some leverage. They don't know a lot about Love without any game action. He has not had any practices with the teams yet. He has more leverage now then he will at any other time.

Love could be our next Rodgers. He could be the next Brian Brohm. Only time will tell. But at this moment, Rodgers needs to realize his best chance for the Super Bowl is in GB.

There are a few points that to me makes it seem like a leverage game with Rodgers trying to get a little more leverage.

First he has yet to come out and speak publicly. Which likely he is waiting until this is over with so he can backtrack on things that have been said.

Second he was surprised and didn't like that the news got out about this.

Third after this got out and people started to turn on him, and then all of a sudden his friends that he talks with starts coming out with some optimistic takes. Kuhn and James Jones come out saying this can be fixed.

Fourth why would some his closest friends resign with the team if they knew he wasn't going to come back? Bakhtiari, ok maybe he loves it here. Aaron Jones, yeah maybe he loves it here. But the telling one for me is BIG DOG! Why the hell would he resign here if he knew Rodgers wasn't coming back? At his age, why wouldn't he go to another contender if he knew he wasn't coming back.

Right now, i think he will be back. I could be wrong, but that is how I feel at this moment.

10 points
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dobber's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:14 am

"Right now, i think he will be back. I could be wrong, but that is how I feel at this moment."

I'm not all rainbows and unicorns, but I agree...you could be wrong. ;)

3 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:23 am

True. But are you wearing an aluminum foil hat like Bearmeat? :)

0 points
2
2
dobber's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:39 am

No one wears the tinfoil hat like Bearmeat!!

3 points
3
0
RCPackerFan's picture

May 10, 2021 at 12:52 pm

Ain't that the truth!!!

2 points
2
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Guam's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:23 am

Good points RCPF! Like you I think Rodgers will be back next year, but that may be his last year with the Packers. Despite no concrete comments from Rodgers, this dispute with the FO appears real and is not likely to go away. The good news is that Rodgers seems to like MLF and Rodgers together with the Packers would have to be one of the odds on favorites to represent the NFC in the Super Bowl. I think the chance to win a SB will bring Rodgers back, but not for long........

2 points
2
0
RCPackerFan's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:33 am

I do think there are issues here. What they are, i have no idea. It sounds like he kind of feels like doesn't feel appreciated from management.

I think this is more about leverage then anything. It to me feels like its a leverage thing. He is leveraging to get what he wants. Which is more of a guaranteed future.

I could be wrong. But that is how I feel.

1 points
1
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dobber's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:42 am

"He is leveraging to get what he wants. Which is more of a guaranteed future."

I don't think it's about a guaranteed future...I think he wants his ego stroked by keeping his name at the top of the QB compensation list. He wants to be the center of these discussions. When it comes right down to it, #12 has a **bit** of a fragile psyche.

6 points
8
2
Guam's picture

May 10, 2021 at 10:23 am

Your point about his ego is spot on Dobber, but I also think more of a guaranteed future is part of the problem. He has often said he wants to retire from the Packers and I think he means it. I believe Jordan Love was a nasty surprise for Rodgers. I think it will take both some re-assurance about his future in Green Bay as well as some stroking of his ego to keep him a Packer.

Also not sure that is going to happen - the Packers drafted Love for a reason. If they continue to believe in Love, a trade may happen.

4 points
4
0
RCPackerFan's picture

May 10, 2021 at 01:29 pm

I think its a little bit of both honestly. I think he feels that right now is the best time to hold the most amount of control he will ever have. They have a QB who played very little. He is coming off an MVP season. They are right in the SB mix. There is no time better to get what he wants.

I think now is about getting more control in the organization. Now is the time to get more control in his future.

1 points
1
0
greengold's picture

May 10, 2021 at 06:01 pm

You know where he will get that guaranteed future? Denver. Fine by me.

The Packers, unfortunately, aren’t sitting there with the 2nd most cap space in the NFL like the Broncos at $25M. Can hardly believe we are just a little more than a week past being served this massive draft cheese melt.

1 points
1
0
Koostyroosty's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:11 am

Lynn Dickey was a helluva pure passer. One of the best long balls in the league at the time. The biggest problem besides no mobility was no defense. If we could have had a top 15 defense the story of the years with Dickey would be different.

13 points
13
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Oppy's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:23 am

Yup. Dickey gets passed over when people talk about great Packers QBs, but he shouldn't be.

Really should talk about Bart, Dickey, Brett, and Rodgers. Dickey was really, really, good.

9 points
9
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PackEyedOptimist's picture

May 12, 2021 at 07:08 am

That's exactly what I was thinking wile reading this article. Dickey didn't have major "injury problems" while with the Packers, those were more with the Oilers. That team had a FANTASTIC offense, but the defense had gigantic holes. Like many teams, it also suffered crippling injuries, like Eddie Lee Ivory's blown knee (he looked like a future All-Pro during his rookie pre-season).
Dickey may be the best bomb thrower I've ever seen; nobody dropped a more perfectly placed ball.

0 points
0
0
Leatherhead's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:32 am

It is nice to see people working towards Acceptance.

@Nick Perry.......when you’re running 65 plays and over half of them are to the backs, you’re a running team. Those short throws are pretty much the same as a long handoff.

And I do think we are close to having a real good defense, especially if we get Surtain in trade, Slaton is going to make a big difference in short yardage.

Look at the other QBs taken before and after Love. Burrows, Tua, Herbert and Jalen Hurts. All played as rookies and played pretty well. I also look at Mahomes sitting his rookie year and then starting. This can work.

My son graduated from the Air Force Academy the same time as we drafted Love. Now, a year later, he’s visibly bigger and stronger and I’d bet Love is too.

We’re going to be fine. As Prince Akeem said to Simmy, “times always do, and must, change”. I think we have a good chance at winning the division because this is a good team that is well coached. It would have been nice to give it one more try with Rodgers but I’m not going to dwell on that.

Next man up.

12 points
14
2
Razer's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:39 am

...I think we have a good chance at winning the division because this is a good team that is well coached. It would have been nice to give it one more try with Rodgers but I’m not going to dwell on that...

That was my hope going into the year. I like your "not going to dwell on that" approach.

4 points
4
0
Guam's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:43 am

Just a quick point LH - if the Packers are going to do a deal with Denver, I would much rather have Bradley Chubb than Surtain. I think our D-line is weaker than our secondary and Chubb would certainly help.

4 points
4
0
Leatherhead's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:51 am

It’s a passing league, and Surtain probably gives us the best secondary in the league.

The best RBs get 5.0 yards/attempt. Average QBs get 7.0 yards/attempt. Simple math tells you it’s better to have your opponents running instead of passing.

2 points
2
0
Guam's picture

May 10, 2021 at 10:27 am

Chubb is a good two way (run and pass) player and would give us more pass rush up the middle which is something the Packer D has been lacking. Yes it is a passing league, but there are two ways to stop the pass. I would rather have a fierce pass rush than an exceptional secondary. And a little better run D too......

4 points
4
0
Ferrari-Driver's picture

May 11, 2021 at 09:32 am

Congratulations to your son. He should have made you proud and most all of us here appreciate that he is one of the young men who helps to keep us safe and secure.
Good post as well.

2 points
2
0
Leatherhead's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:57 pm

Both boys got Congressional appointments to the Air Force Academy. I’m insanely proud.

3 points
3
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greengold's picture

May 11, 2021 at 03:01 am

Yeah, that’s really great, Leatherhead. Very meaningful. The Air Force is great, and I appreciate their service.

0 points
0
0
Turophile's picture

May 11, 2021 at 05:12 am

@Leatherhead.
Only 3 teams in 2020 had more runs than passes. If you know your football you might have guessed two of the teams are the Ravens and Titans, who were both specifically built for that.

The third team was the Patriots, and that had a fair bit to do with Cam Newton under center and their passing game struggling. I don't expect the Pats to be an over 50% running team, year on year.

22 of the 32 teams are more than 55/45 pass/run, with Jax the farthest outlier (64.6/35.4 pass/run).

1 points
1
0
Leatherhead's picture

May 11, 2021 at 01:21 pm

@Turophile.....

Over half of our plays go to our RBs. Those short passes to the backs are pretty much the same as a long handoff.

The Ravens and Titans both had very good offenses and made the playoffs. We were 12th in rushing attempts last year and most of the teams above us made the playoffs.

Run more, pass less. Let the RBs take the beating instead of your QB.

0 points
0
0
Razer's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:36 am

Not a lot to smile about with this situation. Packers front office has handled this poorly even though they lived through it with the last guy. Aaron Rodgers is a flake who is driving the future of the organization. Not the position that you want to be in. I feel particularly bad for Matt LaFleur who has been instrumental in reviving this team and Rodgers career, who will be undermined by the guy that he helped to a MVP season.

The Packers will be forced to hand the keys over to Rodgers in order to placate their franchise QB. The fans will be held hostage by a star ego and Jordan Love will fade to black. The hard medicine scenario is that the Packers get a stupid trading partner who takes the problem off their hands and we start the rebuild process. Anything other than that prolongs the misery and results in diminishing returns.

-3 points
4
7
Archie's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:40 am

I assume Mark Murphy OK'd the idea of drafting a QB of the future when they did. That was a huge mistake if you wanted to keep Rodgers around.

I loved having AR as Packers QB but his achilles heel is he feels every slight and the Packers have greatly slighted him over the last year or so. His MVP gave him the opportunity to bite them in the ass and he chose to do so.

Packers obviously didn't see his MVP season coming. So now they have no choice but to settle this matter with AR one way or the other, and the sooner the better.

If AR really doesn't want to play for GB anymore, the Packers need to suck it up and find the best deal possible and be done with it.

I am hopeful that Jordan Love is a special young QB that can take us to a Super Bowl in three years or so. If not, we take another swing with another QB. That's life in the NFL.

14 points
14
0
Turophile's picture

May 11, 2021 at 05:22 am

So, if you think you need a QB for 'life after Rodgers', and one you like is available, you DON'T take him because your current QB, who is 37, might not like it ? Team > individual.

1 points
1
0
HankScorpio's picture

May 11, 2021 at 06:38 am

"Packers obviously didn't see his MVP season coming. "

Nobody did. Last year at this time, Rodgers career was on a sad downward trajectory. I recall having to bite my tongue in expressing a belief that he could still play on this board because I didn't want to deal with the blowback. On a Packers fan site.

What changed is that the Packers gave him a chip for the shoulder that has always driven him to achieve.

People act like Jordan Love pick paid no dividends. I think that is wrong. It reversed that sad downward trajectory that had left Rodgers as an average performer by the numbers. And propelled him to heights he had never reached before. He ought to be kissing Gute's beanbag for giving him a reason to go out with a bang, instead of a dull thud. But he's not smart enough to see how much of the problem he was. He believes all the problems were from elsewhere. Just like he's always believed.

2 points
2
0
Ferrari-Driver's picture

May 10, 2021 at 05:40 pm

Expect the worst?
Ken, that goes entirely against my nature. I am an optimist in everything I do and feel the same with the Packers. I find it reprehensible that a quarterback or any other player would want to leave the Green Bay Packers to play somewhere else. This is as good as it gets in the NFL. Lambeau Field is annually rated as the best stadium in football and the fans are as good as it gets. Packer players are treated well regardless of where they go in the city. For the last quarter of a century players on this team have enjoyed the thrill of being in the playoffs most every year and are then one of the few with a chance to win the Super Bowl. For pete's sake, this franchise has won more world championships than any other team in the league. I ask you, "Who wouldn't want to be a Green Bay Packer player?".

9 points
9
0
greengold's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:53 am

Thanks for sharing some of those positives, Ken. They are real.

I see no downside to this. Jordan Love is a great QB who was worthy of a First Round selection - Matt LaFleur and Brian Gutekunst banked on that. The Packers will find themselves in a better position moving forward, with a competent young QB who will be more receptive to running what Matt LaFleur wants. LaFleur guided Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers to MVP seasons. Patrick Mahomes won the MVP after sitting behind Alex Smith for one year.

Sue me if you want, but I think we will be able to win a Super Bowl with Jordan Love at QB. Not "because" he's our QB, but that it can be done, with Matt LaFleur's guidance, a solid running game, Love playing within the offense, plus, a solid defense & improved STs.

The possible trade that is rumored should net the Packers a good amount of compensation with a mix of great players and draft picks. Given the scenario of our QB walking out on us, the sun is still going to shine, and it may prove brighter than before.

1 points
4
3
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:34 pm

GG,
I'm with you all the way!

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

May 10, 2021 at 10:03 am

I expect the worse. But it isn't because of Rodgers. It's because of Gute. No matter how you look at it. If Rodgers wanted to leave. They should have granted his request. And to turn down the #3 pick of the draft, was another stupid move by Gute. If you plan on your QB leaving. Let him go. You didn't go all in. So just move on. The packers have turned this into another press nightmare. They know their wrong and thats all there is to it. They miscalculated Rodgers skills. And they have miscalculated this Defense. Players came here to win. Rodgers was the reason. Gute was not. And thats what is behind this. You can blow draft picks, Money, and the super-bowl. But the division; is the only thing that matters, to anyone who wants to Toot their own horn. And stay in their seat.

-8 points
3
11
Dragon5's picture

May 10, 2021 at 10:10 am

You overlook one key component Mr. Lass: confidence. Give me a confident average team over a timid superior team any day.

If Rodgers leaves and team doesn't buy in, we'll be welcoming commercial breaks. The difficult part is, for the team to buy in, Love has to earn it. Aaron's first year under center in '08 we were lukewarm competitive but couldn't close out games. That changed in '09 and the legend was born.

0 points
2
2
TarynsEyes's picture

May 10, 2021 at 10:12 am

Why do some believe Denver will give GB players that Denver will need to keep for Rodgers to win the SB there on both sides of the ball?
If the trade happens, GB will get the draft picks that will more likely become selections of 27 or higher, and either Lock or Bridgewater with my opinion being Bridgewater as they might think Lock could learn from Rodgers as GB believed for Love.

As to the article itself, I have been pleasantly surprised for years now with the success this team has achieved having Rodgers. We all knew the Division was locked-in, but anything after was more a coin-toss that many, if honest, knew would likely come up against getting more, and has since the magical season of 2010-11, which has turned into another story of lore for Packer fans because of, what seems like the ages since. No, coming close is not the same, and close would mean being in the final game not watching it.

This team and its prior since 2012 season have failed to achieve against the better competition for whatever excuse one can recollect or make into one. I see no reason to believe such will not be needed going forward whether with Rodgers, as I think this team is still lacking, and Love with all the 'highlights' rewatched by many, isn't going to give us the Rodgers-esk passing with the same accuracy that makes the WR group much better than they are, which is again another denial for many, which in turn will decrease the effectiveness of the run game and Jones in particular.

To get my hopes higher than they have been for years now, Love will have to get to the NFCCG in his first two years, like his talent, and his 'highlight' reel has more easily convinced some since this Rodgers mess came about.

4 points
6
2
stockholder's picture

May 10, 2021 at 10:25 am

Gute hast fixed the DL or ILB. We have the same needs. Expect a revolving door at Qb. And anybody he signed to leave after Rodgers..

-2 points
3
5
HankScorpio's picture

May 11, 2021 at 06:12 am

"Why do some believe Denver will give GB players that Denver will need to keep for Rodgers to win the SB there on both sides of the ball?"

Because reigning MVPs should not come cheap. They don't just hand that out to anyone.

I prefer Jerry Jeudy over Patrick Surtain, personally. But why not both? The price starts at two #1s and they don't have to be future picks. If not, Surtain, Cortland Sutton. Noah Fant, Dalton Risner or Michael Ojemudia. Gotta be guy(s) on a rook deal for cap reasons. As the player grade goes down, the draft picks to sweeten the pot go up. The Broncos are getting a guy that can play now, the reigning MVP in fact. Why give that up for few lottery tickets while leaving the reigning MVP with plenty of surrounding talent to make those lottery tickets less valuable? Driving down the value of those picks is a chip on Rdogers shoulder. And he seems to play much better with one than without one.

Did I mention that Aaron Rodgers is the reigning MVP? The reigning MVP has never been traded in the history of the NFL. The sky's the limit. The offer ought to be high enough to require oxygen masks. If it is not, the Packers should just call his bluff. See if he wants to cut a check for $30 mil to sit out and Denver can take their chances with Drew Lock and Teddy Bridgewater.

You said it yourself. This roster needs help. I agree, So why trade the most valuable asset on it without getting some of that help immediately?

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

May 11, 2021 at 06:29 am

Start at 2 players of the Packers choosing, plus Bridgewater, plus 3 R1s.

0 points
0
0
crayzpackfan's picture

May 11, 2021 at 10:28 am

Here’s the deal I’d ask for trading Rodgers. I’d have to have one young stud from Denver come to GB. Then I’d go after all their second round picks for the next 2 drafts as well as their 3 pick next year. Then I would want 3 first round picks starting in 2025, 2026, and 2027 in hopes Rogers is retired by then making those round one picks way more valuable.

1 points
1
0
adroge's picture

May 10, 2021 at 10:50 am

20 career playoff games Rodgers has scored 30 or more points 6 times. Three times he was won mvp and in each of those seasons had the leagues top offense. In those seasons he has played 5 playoff games 4 of them at home and scored 30 or more points in just one of those games.

Tom Brady has scored 30 or more points 6 times out of 8 games in the past three seasons.

Patrick Mahomes has scored 30 or more points 5 times out of 7 games in the last three seasons.

Whatever the case scoring points is important to winning championships. While Brady and Mahomes have been able to match their regular seasons with equally productive post seasons Rodgers has not. Even in the three years with elite offenses Rodgers has not translated that success into the postseason. Brees has had the same issue as Rodgers. While there are ton of factors in winning championships don’t kid yourself into thinking Rodgers isn’t part of the reason the packers haven’t won more

6 points
7
1
splitpea1's picture

May 10, 2021 at 11:43 am

I'm on board with restrained optimism if Rodgers leaves. We obviously haven't seen Love take a snap yet, but he will have every conceivable offensive tool to work with once Bakh comes back--the only possible exception being a bonafide #2 receiver. So if there ever was an opportune time to develop a QB, this may be it.

4 points
4
0
Since'61's picture

May 10, 2021 at 11:27 am

There are 3 possible outcomes to the current impasse.

1. Rodgers plays for the Packers in 2021 and gives the Packers their best chance to win an SB in 2021. Speaking for myself this is the best outcome for the Packers because this year's team may be the best since the 2014 or even the 2010 Packers team. It also gives Love a chance to get some live regular season action in any blowout games. So this scenario is a win-win for the Packers, for Rodgers and for Love. It has both short and long term benefits.
2. Rodgers retires. This is a disaster for the FO because they get nothing in return for Rodgers and questions their competence in failing to make a trade for the current league MVP. Plus the locker can be either split. or demoralized at the sudden loss of a very promising season. This is a loss for the Packers and for Love.
3. The Packers trade Rodgers. Depending on the value returned this could be a win or a loss for the Packers. If Rodgers takes his new team deep into the playoffs or wins the SB with his new team the FO proves they are idiots (despite Murphy's comment otherwise) and the Packers have a few more draft picks at #30 or above. This is a lose-lose for the Packers and for Love. This scenario could result in a split and/or demoralized team again over the sudden loss of a very promising season. This puts MLF in a difficult position dealing with disgruntled veterans. It also means that the team is starting over with a new QB and trying to implement a new defensive scheme under Barry. In both cases mistakes will be made. As a rookie QB Love will make mistakes both in decision making and in execution. The same will be true on the defensive side of the ball as the new defense is learned by the players. The positive side is that both these can improve as the season progresses and maybe the team finishes 8-8 on an upswing during the second half of the season. The negative is that Love could flounder badly and this could impact both sides of the ball and the team wins only 4 or 5 games during the season. This will be followed with the loss of D. Adams and the Smiths following the season as the Smiths become cap casualties. The team will then have plenty of cap space and draft picks (hopefully) but will have a huge question mark at QB.

The optimist in me hopes for outcome #1 because that is the best for all. #2 can be acceptable because any player can walk away from the game at any time although it is not a good result for the Packers. #3 would be the pessimistic scenario unless Loves surprises in terms of reading defenses and the game slows down for him sooner rather than later. However, I believe that Love has a huge learning curve ahead of him because he did not play against quality opponents in college. His conference is an NCAA division 1 sub-division. Only 4% of current NFL players have come out of his conference. No team in that conference has ever won a national championship or has even ever played in a national championship game. Now after a year off Love will be thrown in against a league with is mostly filled with players from Division one programs and national champions at some point. I realize that the NFL has had numerous players from smaller colleges who have been very successful over the years and Love has some talent. The question will be how does that talent transfer to the NFL. level and how his confidence transfers to the NFL level. Talent without confidence doesn't matter and confidence without talent doesn't work either. Love could evolve into a great NFL QB or he could flounder.

The reality is that these situations usually end being not as good or as bad as we hope or fear. If Love is good enough to end up somewhere in the middle the Packers could be OK. The same for Gute's other draft picks. As an optimist I remain hopeful and keep an open mind. But this latest situation has put a serious dent in my confidence about the FO. Something is just not right about this current triumvirate of Gute, Ball and Murphy. Without being on the inside I can't put my finger on it. But they are 3 allegedly smart guys and at least one of them should have kept things from reaching this point. Thanks, Since '61

4 points
5
1
nostradanus's picture

May 10, 2021 at 11:59 am

Since 61
It is quite clear what the Packers plan has been, bring the band back together (including Rodgers) for "one last run". The Packers have pushed a bunch of cap $$ into 2022 and are going to have to purge some contracts at that time. It was supposed to be an all or nothing year and then oust Mr. Rodgers after he wins the Super Bowl. Then reset a few years with Jordan Love and go win a few more Super Bowls! Great plan except for one thing, Aaron Rodgers is not on board with that plan. So here we are.....

3 points
3
0
Since'61's picture

May 10, 2021 at 01:18 pm

Agree Nostradamus that was/is clearly the plan. Regrettably no one in the triumvirate considered the fact that Rodgers would not be on board. How do you not include the key guy to the entire plan in your planning. "What we have here is a failure to communicate." As I've posted before this is a consistent failure in the Packers operating model, whatever that may be. Thanks, Since '61

-1 points
0
1
JohnnyLogan's picture

May 10, 2021 at 02:18 pm

You guys who blame Gute and Murphy are missing something that those management guys already knew. The reason they didn't include Rodgers in their plan was obviously that he never would have agreed.

Their plan has proved to be quite solid, to be honest. Murphy, as I've mentioned before, is for some reason not particularly liked by Packer fans, but he was an All-Pro safety who once had 9 interceptions in a season, has a business degree and a law degree, and ran two college athletic departments. He was an NFL player rep during strike negotiations so he thinks of the players. He's been in many locker rooms, and he's won as many SBs as Rodgers. In other words, he knows business and football and he's no fool.

Murphy and Gute hired a terrific coach and whatever you think of Gute, he's put together a team that has been in two NFC championship games. That's not all because of Rodgers.

If their plan was to move on from Rodgers in 2022, how could they possibly tell him that, knowing his ego?

I, for one, am a little tired of seeing the Packers perform well all season then shit the bed in the playoffs, and see Rodgers gloomy face afterward as if he had nothing to do with it. Groundhog Day, or as Yogi famously said, "It's deja vu all over again."

It's time to move on. Take a king's ransom, if you can get it, from Denver, grab Surtain or Chubb, a couple of #1 picks, and let's see what happens. It could be exciting.

5 points
5
0
greengold's picture

May 10, 2021 at 02:50 pm

Wow. I can't imagine Ron Wolf or Ted Thompson inviting Brett Favre into a pre draft meeting to go over their draft boards and discuss what they may or may not do in any given situation on Draft day. For what? To get an approval?

It would never happen. The rules are changed for Brian Gutekunst? Absolutely not.

This petulance AR has shown, both in dealings with LaFleur as a rookie head coach, and all we've seen since Jordan Love was chosen seems more than a little off the mark. AR can't be an easy QB to manage. All this stuff is crazy. I hate to see that it has come to this point, but I won't lose faith that this will work out well for the Packers.

I trust their decision making, for the most part, until proven otherwise, and I think it has been prudent all the way. We're talking about a guy who got his HC fired. He went out of his way to make sure that happened. And, now we're supposed to lose faith in Gutekunst, the one guy that guided us out of cap hell in 2018? Acquired a stellar group of FA players to get us there in 2019? Brought us back for another chance in 2020? Not me. This FO is really getting the shaft in my eyes.

I'm pretty sure Gutekunst was right about the WR position last year. A better balanced set of play calls might have helped last year, and the year before, where we had 16 carries combined each game... both 2019 NFCC and 2020 NFCC. Does anybody think LaFleur wanted it to be that way?

4 points
4
0
Guam's picture

May 10, 2021 at 12:12 pm

Largely agree with your scenarios. I would add in #1 the additional benefit of still being able to trade Rodgers after the 2021 season for draft choices. He will still have value, particularly if the Packers win the Super Bowl.

Scenario #2 is the true disaster, both for the Packers and for Rodgers. No value for Rodgers and an unknown QB as his replacement. And a prematurely ended career for a great quarterback.

Regarding the front office - the minute they drafted Jordan Love, this situation was set in motion. I did not like the pick of Love when it happened and I like it less now. Not because of Jordan Love, but because of the loss of value of two picks that could have helped in 2020 and perhaps more in 2021 (second year jump) as well as pissing off a HOF QB. I can't believe the FO was dumb enough not to see the possibility of this outcome so I can only conclude that they thought Rodgers might be in decline after the 2017 -2019 seasons (and maybe not a good fit for MLF's system) and thought it was time to make the move to the next Packer QB. Rodgers proved them wrong with an MVP performance in 2020, but we know that now only with 20-20 hindsight. Best laid plans of mice and men......

-1 points
1
2
Since'61's picture

May 10, 2021 at 01:26 pm

First thing you do after you draft a plan but before it is finalized is you get input and feedback from your key stakeholders and/or partners. Since Rodgers is both a key stakeholder and is the key to success or failure of this plan you would think that at some point they would have communicated with him. But no, big fail and here we are, with a sound plan and a decapitated team. Management/teamwork 101 - Failed by the triumvirate.
Old management axiom, "If everyone is in charge then no one is in charge." Someone get something done or go home. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
2
0
Guam's picture

May 10, 2021 at 03:58 pm

Not a simple issue to discuss or communicate. The Packers were planning to replace Rodgers - it would be tough to include him in the planning sessions since he would be planning to replace himself. That alone could have caused a blow up similar to what we have now prior to even drafting Love. Communicating with Rodgers afterward might have helped or that might have blown up as well. Replacing a key person who is not ready to be replaced is not simple in any organization.

The Packers drafted Rodgers without including Favre in the discussions. Favre played three more years for the Packers. Not saying that was a great way to do it, but it worked then. I suspect the FO was hoping for a similar result. A bit of wishful thinking, but not without precedent.

I am just not sure there was a good way to do this without either not drafting a replacement in the first place or just cutting ties when you have to after the replacement is drafted.

1 points
1
0
greengold's picture

May 10, 2021 at 04:49 pm

Guam, personally, I think we're right on schedule.

We have to figure the Packers number one priority was NOT to take a QB, the heir apparent to AR in the 2020 draft. Love was in a free fall. How long does that take in a draft before you realize, "hey, this kid that should have been drafted with the #7 pick is now at the #18 pick... Look alive!" ???

I believe a lot changed in that moment, and making phone calls to Aaron Rodgers to sooth his feelings were at the bottom of the list.

NFL = Not For Long. I agree with you, from a reasonable standpoint, there really was no good way to do this without hurting Aaron's feelings. That sounds so asinine to actually write...

I thought the professionalism Gutekunst showed, knowing the crushing backlash he would face was admirable, in both making the pick and his handling of the situation.

I have ZERO problem with them not calling AR first. It is not a freaking nursery...

Based on what I've been reading, I'm wondering if this won't be a bigger trade than we might think... Davante Adams has been awfully cryptic in his commentaries. Given his contract status, he is prime to be included in a package deal. How much do you think DEN would sweeten the pot for that? A QB/WR duo??? That would be a blockbuster trade.

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Since'61's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:54 pm

I posted earlier in the week that the Packers should trade Rodgers, D. Adams and Bak in a package deal to the Broncos to Jeudy, Surtain, Chubb and their next 2#1 picks. That would be a blockbuster deal which would make the Broncos Sb contenders, allow Gute to move on from much of TTs baggage, give us a younger replacement for Adams plus a CB and DL that we need. It will also make it easier for MLF to sell the loss of Rodgers to the the team and quickly set up Love to succeed. As I said before the Packers should go all and do the trade correctly. Let Rodgers take his guys and leave MLF without any baggage to deal with. Thanks, Since '61

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greengold's picture

May 11, 2021 at 05:04 am

That’s a good one, Since’61, but I’m not wanting to part with Bakhtiari. Yes to Davante if he doesn’t want to be here. My thinking is AR is worth TWO 1s, Surtain, Jeudy & Bridgewater alone, and maybe more. Adding Davante would be even bigger for DEN, and would hurt the Packers. Two of the TOP players at their positions.

Funny, but I literally just saw something about Adams & Rodgers fates being tied together on the ESPN Ticker...

Adams makes sense for an additional player, as Love will be making new connections. But, I like Davante, and I bet he and Love could flourish as well together. Davante might see the benefits of staying with the Packers, and Jordan Love throwing to him.

Should be interesting to see the value in trade, and who, if any, follow AR. Packers don’t have to make a single trade, which should drive price higher for DEN.

TWO TOP players, Jeudy #15 overall 2020, Surtain #9 overall 2021, PLUS TWO R1s, with Bridgewater as a throw in should be an absolute minimum for the Reigning NFL MVP. Those R1s will be bottom of round. If they want Davante, they can give us Bradley Chubb #5 overall 2018.

DET got two R1s, an R3 and Goff for Stafford. Thankfully, that trade was made previously and had to have helped set the bar for terms in a proposed trade that were likely agreed to, yet to be finalized between GB & DEN. There is much that lines up with DEN as a trade partner. $25M cap space, all of their picks to work with, plus a surplus of top WRs, CBs, ILBs, DL...

DEN has never beaten Patrick Mahomes, their Division rival. Motivation is high there. Mile high.

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Dragon5's picture

May 10, 2021 at 01:57 pm

Beginner astrology 101

Q: The enemy of the GOAT is the OX...which one doesn't belong?

FRANCHISE = GOAT
MURPHY = GOAT
GUTE = OX
MLF = GOAT
HACKETT = GOAT
RODGERS = PIG (ally of the GOAT)

Case closed.

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nostradanus's picture

May 10, 2021 at 11:51 am

Hey guys I’m not trying to pee in anybody’s corn flakes but Jordan Love just does not see the field well. There is no way around it, dude is an interception machine. Love has arm talent but his decision making is Sub Par, Will that improve? Probably not but I hope it does I really really hope it does because I won’t be able to stand four years of Brett Hundley or Deshon Kaiser and that’s all I see in this guy. It's too bad they've come to this point with Rodgers after being so close the last two years, but that is on Mr. Murphy Brian Gutekunst and Aaron Rodgers. I believe they all equally share in the blame.
Sorry to ruin your optimistic Packer Party.

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greengold's picture

May 10, 2021 at 12:57 pm

How is any QB supposed to look running a new system for the first time, missing 4 starting OL from the season before, 3 WRs, your starting TE and starting RB?

Do you think he might be running for his life? Do you still believe your statements here are fair, given those circumstances?

All these INTs you're talking about? Yeah, 2019 he had 17 of them, while running for his life, throwing to new players. Love only had 6 INTs to 32 TDs in 2018, for a 158.3 passer rating. That's accuracy.

Take all of those players away, add in a new system, and no one is likely to be on the same page. You think Aaron Rodgers would have done better? Really. Take the savvy veteran NFL MVP, and put him in that scenario Jordan Love was in. Do you think he would have fared better?

Seriously, let's be fair. My saying this has nothing to do with being optimistic. I'm being realistic.

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Reghamster's picture

May 11, 2021 at 04:13 am

Nostradanus , You Sir , owe us all a bowl of untainted cornflakes!

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Swisch's picture

May 10, 2021 at 06:48 pm

Not saying here whether or not we should trade Rodgers -- but if we do trade Rodgers, maybe we also trade Davante Adams in the same deal.
If it's to the Broncos, maybe we get Jeudy; either Chubb or Surtain; a first round pick in the next couple of years; and maybe another draft pick.
Would that be a win for both teams?
Just thinking out loud for the sake of good conversation. . . .

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Swisch's picture

May 10, 2021 at 04:51 pm

Okay, not a lot of enthusiasm in the first few hours of this post.
What if the Broncos added Teddy Bridgewater, a ball boy, and a couple cases of Coors beer?

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jont's picture

May 10, 2021 at 01:22 pm

Re expectations, no matter what happens in the coming weeks with #12, we might do well to assess our expectations. Since 1992, we've had outstanding QB play. No other team in the league matches it, and no team should ever expect it to happen. Even if Love turns out to be decent, it is simply unreasonable to expect another ten years of Rodgers calibre play. Barring a miracle, we are going to see a drop off back there. GB is going to need a strong 53, deep and all across, to win a super bowl.

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Since'61's picture

May 10, 2021 at 01:42 pm

The Packers have really not had a deep 53 man squad since the best years of the Wolf/Holmgren/Favre era. Even the 2010 SB team had some holes in it but Rodgers played lights outs during the playoffs and the defense was at least good enough to make stops and key points during the playoff games and in the SB. If we had Kevin King back then we wouldn't have made it.

BULLETIN: Ian Rappaport has just reported that "The Packers have made a significant, long term contract extension offer to Aaron Rodgers and that there certainly has been some engagement from Rodgers."

Hope springs eternal! Thanks, Since '61

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TarynsEyes's picture

May 10, 2021 at 01:59 pm

Is this new, like today's offer or the one from a few days ago where it was said that Rodgers turned it down?

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Since'61's picture

May 10, 2021 at 03:21 pm

I think this is new since it was dated today. But anything is possible. Thanks, Since '61

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greengold's picture

May 10, 2021 at 04:22 pm

Since'61, my friend, I think this is over.

All I see everywhere are reports of DEN being the favorite, and those reports have continued daily. Just finished watching Rappaport say 2 hours ago that the Rodgers camp and the Packers couldn't be further apart, not in a good place, not happy with each other. Seems like he's throwing a pretty good word salad together based on old reports... but nothing has changed from Draft day.

Both GB and DEN being quiet sure is loud though...

The Packers are also bringing in two camp arms, Kurt Benkert and Chad Kelly. I have no clue where they are from, but they will be throwing the ball around for the rookie minicamp tryout.

Gotta laugh, man. Wishing you the best.

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Oppy's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:08 pm

A long term contract extension is the exact opposite of hope springing eternal for me.

I want in no way to be inextricably tied to Rodgers for any longer than necessary.

I assume what Rodgers wants is a contract which financially binds the Packers to him through his 40th or 41st birthday, so he can live his dream of playing his entire career with one franchise and to play until he's 40.

I want NOTHING to do with anything that lacks flexibility. I get it, Rodgers wants it. That's not necessarily what's best for the Packers. I care about the Packers first.

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THESZOTMAN1's picture

May 10, 2021 at 05:16 pm

Here's how I see it: WITH AR12 we go 9-8 --- maybe a lot better tho a SB is a BIG stretch. Then we'll probably decline slowly. With Jordan Love we go 8-9 --- maybe a lot worse. Then we may improve slowly. MAY.
The Szotman

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JohnnyLogan's picture

May 10, 2021 at 06:53 pm

We're not going 9-8 with Rodgers. And no one has any idea what we'd do with Love.

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Oppy's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:10 pm

This is the worst take of 2021 so far.

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dobber's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:52 pm

It's still early...

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Reghamster's picture

May 11, 2021 at 04:21 am

Maybe the Szotman has Szots in his eyes because he can't see the future very well at all.

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Dragon5's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:05 pm

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31423006/proud-special-connection-qb...

This is why you package Adams with Rodgers in order to get Jeudy. Denver gets 1 year rental of perhaps the best NFL tandem and Adams will have every intention to re-up given his allegiance to Aaron.

Continue to pound the table...
Rodgers & Adams
for
Jeudy, Surtain, 2 firsts

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greengold's picture

May 10, 2021 at 07:50 pm

We should get Jeudy, Surtain and 2 First Round picks for AR alone.

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TarynsEyes's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:30 pm

If the FO accepts that Rodgers will sit, then their leverage to get a lot for him is mooted to a point. No way does Denver feel the pressure to give a boat of anything for a player putting his team in a box, that drives the cost down unless the Raiders get involved within bidding war for Rodgers, which I don't think Gruden will entertain as the ego fight will hurt the team more than help, but perhaps his ego will compel him to try.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 10, 2021 at 08:52 pm

From the report on NFL.com tonight about Adams making comments that if Rodgers leaves 'he may' leave as well. Should the Packers trade Rodgers to Denver as much as I love Adams who is almost 30-years old I'd add Adams in the trade. However, in return I'd want Jerry Jeudy WR, Courtland Sutton WR, Patrick Surtain II DB, and two first round draft choices. I don't personally care one way or another if Bridgewater is included. I want as much young talent and high draft choices as possible and do not want to water down that talent any more than necessary. Jeudy and Courtland are young, talented, and up and coming WR's and would be an upgrade over Adams for years to come. Adding Surtain to our defensive backfield would be down right criminal. With one of those future high draft choices you could trade for either a talented QB this year (2021 season), or wait until the draft (2022) and pick a QB high positioning the Packers with two good young QB's that will be there for many years into the future. That would be what I would do and the Packers would be challenging for the NFC Championship game or higher, not just in 2021, but for the next number of years.

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packmann's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:56 pm

Outstanding commentary! Excellent trade value Dragon5! Be prepared! Hope for the best (AR returns) but plan for the worst (AR departs). Go Pack!

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packmann's picture

May 10, 2021 at 10:41 pm

What do you suppose is AR's legacy in Green Bay should he choose to depart this year?

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Starrbrite's picture

May 10, 2021 at 09:28 pm

Great article Ken. Vic Ketchem (sp) called Packer fans “winsome”—-a nice name for pessimists. It does seem at times that Packer fans have an abject fear of losing. I am not in that sky-is-falling crowd, I am however afraid that losing Rogers will put is in a tailspin. At the end of the day, the dogs may bark, but the train moves on.

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Booner's picture

May 11, 2021 at 08:28 am

Gute, Ball and Murphy The Three Stooges! I said this once and will say it again! Gute will never ever in his career have a better QB than he does right now! Holmgren said the same thing about Green Bay's front office! Something not right! Time for the Board to Huddle UP!

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