Let's Move on From T.J. Watt

A few weeks back, the now nauseating discussion about TJ Watt reared its ugly head again on Twitter. The now ever-so-rehearsed take that Green Bay and Ted Thompson made the massive mistake passing on TJ Watt to move down and select Kevin King was brought up again and I felt the need to try, as best I could, to end that discussion once-and-for-all. So let’s do it, let’s get everything out in the open and finally, hopefully, end this discussion for good.

Let me start by saying this, there are very few people who wanted the Packers to draft TJ Watt as much as I did. I had three players that I really liked around that point in the draft. Jabrill Peppers, David Njoku, and TJ Watt. Of those three, TJ Watt was the easiest evaluation for me and the player who would have fit best with the Packers. Peppers was obviously taken ahead of Green Bay and I’m not a huge believer in taking tight ends in the first round (that’s a discussion for another day). That left, what to me was the very insanely obvious choice of TJ Watt to the Packers.

All of that being said, I had no issue at the time with the Kevin King pick either. He was a massively talented player at their biggest area of need on the team. The fact they were able to get a freak player with that much upside at their most maligned position was reason for celebration. The fact they were able to add a very early 4th round pick on top of that was a really nice bonus as well. Did I agree with the decision, no, but in no way was this a bad draft decision at the time.

It’s also incredibly important to remember that Green bay didn’t have Watt within the group of players they were considering. It had been reported by multiple outlets that Green Bay’s wish list at that point in the draft was actually Kevin King, DeShone Kizer, and Dalvin Cook. Now we can all easily make the argument that Watt should have been on the list, but all indications are that he wasn’t. And while Dalvin Cook is probably the best of the three players they were deciding between, Kevin King was the player with by far the most upside at their biggest area of need. King over Cook and Kizer was the right move.

All of this being said, TJ Watt has easily been better than Kevin King when we are comparing the two head-to-head. Kevin King has been oft-injured while TJ Watt has 19 sacks in the past two seasons, including 12 this year. It doesn’t help that Watt has more passes defended and the same amount of interceptions as King either. If you asked 32 GM’s today which player they’d rather have, all 32 would undoubtedly take Watt.

So why does this take need to be put to bed so badly? First of all, I’ve watched a ton of TJ Watt over the past two seasons, and while he’s a really nice player, he’s nowhere near as good as you may think. Pro Football Focus has had Watt graded in the same area as Kyler Fackrell for just about the entirety of the season. He’s currently their 39th best edge rusher with a grade of 71.1. For comparison sake, Fackrell is at 45 with a grade of 69.3 and Clay Matthews is at 60 with a grade of 66.2. While I don’t always 100% agree with PFF’s grading (see HaHa Clinton-Dix), I do very much agree with their assessment on Watt. (For those wondering King was their 94th graded CB out of 117 eligible CB’s this season at a 59.7 grade). So while again, Watt is better, with the amount of debate you hear about this you would think that Green Bay passed on a generational edge rusher. They didn't. He's good, but he's still far from great at this point.

The most important reason that this discussion is so silly isn’t because TJ Watt isn’t better than Kevin King; because he clearly is; rather it’s because these discussions are inherently silly and you can have them with every pick in every draft. Taking King over Watt was by far and away not their most egregious error even in that draft or even with that pick. In fact, if you are going to make a massive argument that Green Bay should have taken a player from Wisconsin instead of King, the argument should be for Ryan Ramczyk who was taken by the Saints at 32 and has been a premier tackle in the league.

In 2017, Green Bay could have had a draft of Ryan Ramczyk, JuJu Smith-Schuster, Eddie Jackson, Carl Lawson, George Kittle, Aaron Jones, and Xavier Woods. They also could have drafted James Connor, Alvin Kamara, Larry Ogunjobi, and on and on and on. So to single out just TJ Watt over Kevin King is ridiculous.

And while Kevin King hasn’t quite lived up to expectations yet, Green Bay should also be credited with avoiding players like Ruben Foster, Malik McDowell, and to a lesser extent Zay Jones who were taken right around where Green Bay selected and all have been massive busts for one reason or another.

I’m sure the fact that he’s a Watt and from Wisconsin has only brought more attention to this debate, but before we bring up this discussion again, let’s wait and see how their careers play out as a whole. And while it’s probably true that Watt was, is, and will always be the right pick over Kevin King; such is the life of drafting in the NFL. The Packers missed their chance on a solid pass rusher and chose a talented but so far oft-injured corner. It happens. Now it’s time to move on.

__________________________

Andy is a graduate of UW-Oshkosh and owns & operates the Pack-A-Day Podcast. Andy has taken multiple courses in NFL scouting and is an Editor for Packer Report. You can find him on WFRV's Green Bay Nation and every Friday on the Friday Film Room on WDUZ . Andy grew up in Green Bay and is a lifelong season ticket holder - follow him on Twitter @AndyHermanNFL!

NFL Categories: 
5 points

Comments (101)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
Lare's picture

December 27, 2018 at 06:17 pm

Much like the Khalil Mack decision, I don't dwell much on what didn't happen in the past. There's nothing anybody can do about these decisions anyway so why rehash them?

That said, i do kind of wonder how much input Gutekunst had in some of these draft decisions.

+ REPLY
5 points
7
2
LeotisHarris's picture

December 27, 2018 at 07:52 pm

Agreed, and also how much input from others in the room was valued. The way Alonzo Highsmith, Elliott Wolf, and others from the scouting department hit the door when Gute was named GM was telling. At the time I recall reading, I think it was from Alonzo, how good it felt to finally be listened to now that he as out of Green Bay.

+ REPLY
2 points
2
0
Turophile's picture

December 28, 2018 at 01:52 am

I agree, Lare. Continuing to pick at this, years after it happened, is like picking at your stitches weeks after they were put in. All it does is hurt and there is no benefit gained.

+ REPLY
2 points
2
0
Skip greenBayless's picture

December 28, 2018 at 03:07 am

" I don't dwell much on what didn't happen in the past"

Really Lare? What didn't happen two years ago? It seems to me you can't get over that and dwell dwell dwell in the past. Please in the future please keep your political emotions out of here. You were an embarrassment yesterday but I am willing to forgive you. I expect better of you going forward.

To quote TK: "Losers gonna lose". I want you to win Lare and win Bigly.

Dash

+ REPLY
-13 points
1
14
Doug Niemczynski's picture

December 27, 2018 at 06:19 pm

Would'a, could'a, should'a

There are no excuses in the nfl and there can be no mistakes.

You can say Doug thats ridiculous, but bottomline the Steelers made the right call and the Packers made a bad call.

+ REPLY
-7 points
2
9
LeotisHarris's picture

December 27, 2018 at 07:54 pm

Doug, that's ridiculous. There can be and are mistakes all the time (see Lions, Detroit 1957-2018) in the NFL.

+ REPLY
5 points
5
0
Turophile's picture

December 28, 2018 at 01:56 am

"Would'a, could'a, should'a"
Should actually be "Could'a, didn't, move on".
You seem to live in a world where no-one makes a mistake.........otherwise known as La-La land.

+ REPLY
2 points
3
1
Bearmeat's picture

December 27, 2018 at 06:20 pm

Does the fact that our pass rush blows goats bother me? Yes. But not having TJ Watt is only one of the players who could have fixed it in the past 3 years - there are many more - and we've all been over those names time and again.

No. The frustration for me is more the fact that TT screwed the CB position so badly from 2015-2017 that we had to go back to the double dipping well TWICE in that timespan for early round picks. And our CB position has only finally gotten fixed. And free agency? Fuhgeddaboudit with TT. UGH.

While we spent unprecedented cap resources on CB, our OLB, OT and WR positions went to hell in a handbasket from 2015-2018. Gute has only started to clean up the mess. There is much more to do.

Ted: Thanks for 05-10. Meh for 11-14. And screw you for the past 3 years.

+ REPLY
10 points
12
2
Lare's picture

December 27, 2018 at 06:34 pm

You're much more optimistic than I am about the CB position being fixed. Right now, the most reliable CB we have on the roster is Tony Brown. Hopefully (the almost always injured) Kevin King, (the frequently injured) Jaire Alexander and (the terribly inconsistent) Josh Jackson can come around next season and be reliable and productive players. If not, the Packers are right back to square one at one of the most important positions on the roster.

+ REPLY
-2 points
5
7
Leatherhead's picture

December 27, 2018 at 06:53 pm

Agree. When we line up in the nickel, we have 36 year old sagety, a UDFA safety, a rookie corner, a rookie nickel, and King. That's before the first injury. And we're supposed to cover premium passing attacks.

We need more guys who can cover...our pass rush is already way above average.

+ REPLY
-8 points
1
9
Bearmeat's picture

December 27, 2018 at 07:35 pm

Rarely have I disagreed with a post so strongly.

First - Look around the league. You're not going to find very many teams with 3-4 deep CBs and 2-3 deep FS/SS's that are better. A starting lineup of: Alexander/King/Breeland/Brown with Jackson and Jackson at FS/SS is pretty strong IMO.

Second - Our pass rush blows. This is not debatable. Pettine has schemed people free. We do not have a SINGLE pass rusher who can win 1v1 with any regularity. Perhaps Clark - our NT.

That should tell you all you need to know about it.

+ REPLY
12 points
12
0
pooch's picture

December 28, 2018 at 07:01 am

Only if they stay healthy and thats a big if.

+ REPLY
-1 points
0
1
Bearmeat's picture

December 28, 2018 at 07:19 am

Just like every other team, Pooch. What #4 CB doesn't ARod pick on? Unfortunate (or for us, fortunate) truth of a salary cap league.

+ REPLY
2 points
2
0
Leatherhead's picture

December 28, 2018 at 02:48 pm

You keep saying "our pass rush blows".

I keep pointing out that according to NFL statistics, the Packers have one of the league's better pass rushes. We have 43 sacks, which only six teams have more of. Minnesota leads the league with 50. We're also sixth place in sack percentage.

So by those two objective measures.....we don't blow.

If Pettine is able to get those sacks with scheme....and that's kinda what a good coach is supposed to do...…..then why spend premium resources improving an area where we're already 6th?

In 2017, we didn't have Pettine....we had crappy Capers. And we had 37 sacks at the end of the season. 6 fewer than we have now. So does Pettine's scheming account for the difference, or did we add some monster talent? Or did the internal improvement of people like Clark and Fackrell and Lowry help?

We do not put 5 healthy, experienced, capable NFL DBs on the field at one time. We are trying to guard quality WRs with UDFAs who were on the practice squad when the season started. On gameday, you need 9 healthy, capable, DBs on the roster......we don't usually average half of that. Everybody else is JAG.

+ REPLY
2 points
3
1
fthisJack's picture

December 28, 2018 at 09:02 am

nooooo….we need more guys that can stay on the field!

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
Bearmeat's picture

December 27, 2018 at 07:36 pm

I think all of those players need time and room to grow. They all have plenty of ability and have shown flashes of competence to brilliance.

+ REPLY
6 points
6
0
Turophile's picture

December 28, 2018 at 01:57 am

x2 Bearmeat.

+ REPLY
2 points
2
0
Since'61's picture

December 28, 2018 at 09:02 am

x4 Bearmeat!!! I agree with you 100%. Our CBs are very good when they are healthy. Our pass rush is virtually non-existent especially at key times in the game. Thanks, Since '61

+ REPLY
3 points
3
0
Leatherhead's picture

December 27, 2018 at 06:49 pm

You say our pass rush blows, yet we are one of the best teams in the league at getting to the passer. We need people who can cover long enough for the rush to reach home.

+ REPLY
-13 points
0
13
splitpea1's picture

December 27, 2018 at 08:23 pm

Are you serious?

+ REPLY
3 points
3
0
Leatherhead's picture

December 28, 2018 at 02:51 pm

If it was possible for a pass rush to be so awesome that you could prevent a quality NFL QB from just throwing a completion to an open receiver, then teams would rush 6 or 7 every time. And I have yet to see a pass rusher so awesome that they can just run over a quality linemen over and over.

Pass defense starts with covering people. If you can't cover, your pass rush isn't going to have enough time to get to the QB. The better you can cover, the more time the rushers have.

+ REPLY
0 points
1
1
Jonathan Spader's picture

December 29, 2018 at 07:41 am

Old School go back and watch JJ Watt both years he won DPotY. He would run over anybody to the QB and if you got the ball out quickly he'd jump up and bat it down. Unfortunately we haven't seen a dominant performance like his in defense since.

+ REPLY
1 points
1
0
Leatherhead's picture

December 27, 2018 at 06:54 pm

Didn't we go to the Championship game in 2014 and 2016?

+ REPLY
-1 points
1
2
Bearmeat's picture

December 27, 2018 at 07:37 pm

Yes in 2014 - With Peppers playing a key role and TT's last/best picks behind him.

2016 was ALLLL ARod in God Mode. All of it.

+ REPLY
2 points
5
3
splitpea1's picture

December 27, 2018 at 08:27 pm

What does that have to do with the present? 2014 and 2016 are history.

+ REPLY
0 points
1
1
Rak47's picture

December 27, 2018 at 08:45 pm

So TT blew it drafting Casey Hayward? Or did Capers and McCarthy blow it by playing him out of position in the slot? Hayward played very well his rookie year at outside CB until dumb and dumber decided he should play Capers "star position" at slot CB. As soon as he went to the Chargers ,they put him back outside where he's been in the Pro Bowl ever since.

+ REPLY
9 points
10
1
sonomaca's picture

December 28, 2018 at 05:16 am

Same with Demarious Randall, a FS playing out of position in GB. Now, he’s a borderline Pro Bowl player at that position in Cleveland.

So, the current lineup could feature:

Hayward, Alexander at corner
Randall, Hyde at safety
Watt, Fackrell outside
Mathews, Martinez inside
Daniels, Clark up front

All they need then is a slot corner and some depth pieces. Wonder what Pettine could do with that line-up.

+ REPLY
7 points
7
0
rstain99's picture

December 28, 2018 at 08:19 am

Nice defense, you did your homework. great analysis

+ REPLY
1 points
2
1
Skip greenBayless's picture

December 28, 2018 at 04:09 pm

I don't think Fackrell makes the team this season if they drafted Watt. He would have never had the opportunity he's having this season. Cause and effect. Nobody except Taryn had a read on the guy and even she gave up on him last year.

+ REPLY
-1 points
2
3
pooch's picture

December 28, 2018 at 07:02 am

Then Ted should of told Mike fire Capers

+ REPLY
-1 points
1
2
fthisJack's picture

December 28, 2018 at 09:33 am

no one should have had to tell MM to fire Capers or Slocum or Zook. he finally got himself fired for hanging on to his buddies too long.

+ REPLY
1 points
2
1
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

December 28, 2018 at 05:19 am

Very well written Bearmeat! My thoughts exactly!

+ REPLY
1 points
1
0
pooch's picture

December 28, 2018 at 06:57 am

Dont forget safties

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
ShanghaiKid's picture

December 28, 2018 at 12:54 pm

@Bear
"Ted: Thanks for 05-10. Meh for 11-14. And screw you for the past 3 years."

This ^^^ x 1000. Roster has been ravaged by poor, poor drafting. I've been asking for the offense to be a priority for a while. The OL has been criminally neglected.

+ REPLY
-1 points
1
2
Leatherhead's picture

December 28, 2018 at 02:54 pm

2011 was the best regular season in Packer history. 2014 was a championship game appearance. 2012 and 2013 were playoff seasons too.

Not Meh, not to me.

+ REPLY
-1 points
2
3
ShanghaiKid's picture

December 28, 2018 at 05:33 pm

@Old School those were also the last good years of TT drafting well. Those are years 2 and 3 respectively of the 2009 and 2010 draft classes. There is a reason the team dropped off a cliff in ‘15 and it was because TT’s misses in the front 7 started showing. Combine that with letting Hayward and Hyde walk with no plans besides a 1 year FBS starter at corner and converted FS you’re going to have problems.

+ REPLY
2 points
2
0
Skip greenBayless's picture

December 28, 2018 at 06:01 pm

Also throw in Ted drafting a possible hall of fame safety and tight end in Nick Collins and Jermichael Finley who just happened to suffer career ending spinal injuries. Ted hit jackpots on both and would not have had to worry about drafting Ha Ha or drafting Richard Rodgers and signing the left wing nutjob Martellius Bennett. I also forgot to mention Sam Shields who Ted also picked out of a haystack and also had to use high draft resources on when he also had to retire due to concussions. Lots of people are conveniently forgetting just how great Ted was. Both Collins and Finley would still be playing possibly as well as Shields. All those resources trying to make up for three great players lost in their prime is very difficult. What a shame it is to hear so many ungrateful people put down a living legend who is now possibly suffering from some health issues.

+ REPLY
-1 points
0
1
ShanghaiKid's picture

December 28, 2018 at 07:52 pm

@Dash. Every single pick you mentioned was pre 2010. They were a part of the core that won a SB. It sucks, but it’s not like they all happened at once.

Collins career was lost on 2011. It took TT until 2014 to even plug that hole with an average player. Shields wasn’t lost until 2014, and you could make a case that that hole has yet to be filled. Finley was lost in 2013 and has not been replaced, had Cook, then TT and Ball decided to low ball and offer and Cook told them to take a hike. Justifiably so.

So for all the great years TT had until 2010 he was just as poor afterwards. Sherrod, Perry, Datone, Worthy, McMillian, Thornton, Bradford, Rollins, Letting Hyde and Hayward walk. You miss that many high and mid round picks without supplementing in FA and your team starts to slide.

+ REPLY
2 points
3
1
Cheesehead79's picture

December 29, 2018 at 08:46 am

Great points. Most people will tell you never let the fans run an organization, but ALL these choices seemed to be baffling to fans, and the fans turned out right. That’s when you know your team’s in trouble. Cook wanted $8 million plus incentives, and they said no. Gave it to Bennett with no incentives, that was deal breaker? The guy has earned his incentives in Oakland. Hayward, Hyde, Burnett. None of them were breaking the bank with their respective deals.

+ REPLY
-1 points
0
1
ricky's picture

December 28, 2018 at 02:07 pm

Want to regret a bad non-move? How about when Trevathan was available in FA, and the Packers had a crying need at LBer? He ended up with the Bears (sound familiar?), and commented at the time he was surprised that the Packers didn't even make an offer for his services. This was not an unknown, this was a proven player in an area of need.

+ REPLY
0 points
1
1
Lare's picture

December 28, 2018 at 04:22 pm

Ted didn't need any free agents. He was out to prove that he could take Wal-Mart workers and turn them into All Pro players.

+ REPLY
-1 points
1
2
Doug Niemczynski's picture

December 29, 2018 at 10:50 am

Vince Lombardi — 'Gentlemen, we will chase perfection, and we will chase it relentlessly, knowing all the while we can never attain it."

Funny how when Vince Lombardi mentions it, then its not so ridiculous is it?

+ REPLY
1 points
1
0
PDTPack's picture

December 27, 2018 at 06:38 pm

Although I agree that it is useless to compare King to Watt, there is merit in evaluating a draft after 2 years. Right after the draft we see the immediate grades and the smarter people say you have to p,ay it out. Well, when should you evaluate a draft. At some point you should be able to determine if a team had a good draft. I think we can now see Thompson has some very poor drafts and the Packers are now paying the price.

+ REPLY
5 points
6
1
Savage57's picture

December 28, 2018 at 07:26 am

The biggest issue I had with the Watt pass was it was another example of Ted trying to be too cute by half, and show the league how savvy he was by dealing down. This trade and the move back reminded me of some of the 'shrewd' moves the two clowns on American Pickers make when they're hunting for junk and think their brilliance is anything more than what you learn in the first week of your 100-level class in negotiation.

Yeah, you can drive yourself nuts second guessing draft choices, but most times the best prize is the one you passed on when you got sucked in to trading for Door #2.

+ REPLY
1 points
2
1
fthisJack's picture

December 28, 2018 at 09:38 am

the trade wouldn't have been bad if TT had hit on the 1st pick in the fourth round.

+ REPLY
1 points
1
0
Turophile's picture

December 28, 2018 at 11:02 am

Savage57 you are delusional if you think what TT was doing was trying to be 'cute'.

Now, age and illness may well have been creeping up on TT, but in general GMs don't "try to be cute", they try to get the best guys for their team. It's the same deal when people call him arrogant, I doubt he has an arrogant bone in his body. Your reading of his character is about as poor as it is possible to be.

Criticise his decisions, that's fine, he made some good ones, he made some poor ones, and finally like most GMs, he got the sack.....but both he and McCarthy loved their jobs and did the best they could by the Packers.

+ REPLY
1 points
4
3
TimBackes's picture

December 27, 2018 at 07:05 pm

"I’m sure the fact that he’s a Watt and from Wisconsin has only brought more attention to this debate,"

Ha, just a little bit. If he weren't a Watt from Wisconsin, I doubt half the shrieking Twitter horde would have any clue who he was.

+ REPLY
4 points
5
1
sonomaca's picture

December 28, 2018 at 05:30 am

Well, passed on Watt and Ramczyk, but got the extra pick, which they used in Biegel.

Can’t really evaluate that draft just yet, although Yancy, Dupree, and Biegel are gone. I think Biegel has turned out to be pretty good on special teams for Saints, and we know about Taysom Hill.

+ REPLY
0 points
1
1
dobber's picture

December 28, 2018 at 06:40 am

The next article should be: moving on from Taysom Hill.

+ REPLY
9 points
10
1
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

December 28, 2018 at 08:34 am

Biegel has played one defensive snap and 222 special team snaps for NO. Biegel isn't listed among the top special teamers in tackles. Crawford for GB comes in at 24th (9 tackles) and Burks comes in 35th (8 tackles). Tackles isn't the end all and be all statistic for special teamers.

+ REPLY
1 points
1
0
stockholder's picture

December 27, 2018 at 07:33 pm

Everyone liked watt. TT went against everyone for that forth round pick. Instead of trading up, we always trade down. But yet Teddy didn't have the Guts to go up after a CM3 again. He had Perry, and the fan favorite was cm3. TT played the draft wrong from year to year since 2011. Logic cannot not be applied when BPA should be the pick. And you don't pick a Wr, when you need a ILB. You don't take a LT, to play hard ball with the LT you have. TT made management moves. Not Draft Moves. Thats why were in this mess. The draft gives you position deep players. He only took what he needed. The rest was trying to show everybody he was smarter than the scouts.

+ REPLY
2 points
4
2
pooch's picture

December 28, 2018 at 07:04 am

Great post

+ REPLY
-1 points
1
2
NickPerry's picture

December 29, 2018 at 05:33 am

I agree pooch...Great post!

+ REPLY
-1 points
0
1
Striker's picture

December 28, 2018 at 12:46 pm

"Everyone liked Watt. TT went against everyone for that forth round pick."

This is just absurdly false. King was graded out as a first rounder as well. At the time, both players were fine options. One is oft injured, the other is a benefit of scheme but could have easily been a washout on the Packers DL with no impact player to take away pressure from him.

Also, my god, the personality projection on Thompson is so real among Packer fans. You'd think he kicked your cat or something.

+ REPLY
4 points
4
0
Oppy's picture

December 27, 2018 at 08:27 pm

Here is the air-tight method for moving on from TJ Watt:

Don't get hung up on a player your team didn't sign in the first place, because hopefully, we're all well-adjusted adults who don't spend months and years looking for reasons to bitch, complain, and be angry about things that we as fans never had -any- control over to begin with, and once the Packers make/don't make a selection or a signing, there's nothing to be gained from acting out like a angst-filled teenager who can't believe Mary Tillerson went to prom with that douchebag Bobby LeRoute instead of me.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.. but they didn't. Bitching and whining about it is a complete waste of your time and health.

+ REPLY
5 points
7
2
Oppy's picture

December 27, 2018 at 08:29 pm

I honestly don't understand how people fall into this.
I learned how idiotic it is to dwell on stuff like this after listening to full grown men whine, curse, and holler for years about Mandrich / Sanders.

What a colossal waste of energy.

+ REPLY
6 points
8
2
Samson's picture

December 28, 2018 at 07:43 am

Responding to your own post is also "a colossal waste of energy" especially when you are doing exactly what you are complaining about. -- Think about it. -- Sometimes saying nothing at all is the best response.

+ REPLY
-1 points
1
2
Rebecca's picture

December 28, 2018 at 01:48 pm

You have the right to stay silent. Everything you say can and will be used against you in the politically correct court of public opinion.

+ REPLY
2 points
2
0
Oppy's picture

December 29, 2018 at 07:21 pm

The difference is that when fans continually gripe and harp about the player that was never acquired, and continually track and point to how much better he's doing than player b, there is nothing to be gained from it. At best, you waste your breath. At worst, you become agitated and drive up your heart rate and stress levels.

On the other hand, by pointing out how futile this behavior is, there's the chance some fans that engage in it might stop and think about it, ask themselves why they do it, and maybe even learn to let it go and live happier, healthier lives.

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
NickPerry's picture

December 27, 2018 at 08:37 pm

Why?

Thompson screwed the pooch so many times the last 3 drafts and really before that I'll never let it go. I had to hear the "In Ted We Trust" crap for a LONG time after the time of trusting Ted had passed. According to my calculations I have at LEAST another year of Thompson Bashing.

Sorry...

Then again if Murphy screws up this next hire, the one Brian "The Football Guy" Gutekunst should be making my attention will switch to him in a heartbeat.

+ REPLY
3 points
6
3
stockholder's picture

December 27, 2018 at 08:54 pm

Sounds fair to me.

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
Skip greenBayless's picture

December 27, 2018 at 08:55 pm

I already have "Guten Free" ready to go if such an event were to happen.

+ REPLY
-2 points
3
5
albert999's picture

December 27, 2018 at 08:39 pm

TT stayed way to long and so has Murphy

+ REPLY
2 points
3
1
albert999's picture

December 27, 2018 at 08:44 pm

OL first 2 picks
Edge rusher 3rd pick
Tight end 4th pick
Kicker 5th pick

+ REPLY
-2 points
1
3
dobber's picture

December 28, 2018 at 06:41 am

I would like to draft right after you if you're already pigeon-holing your picks.

+ REPLY
5 points
5
0
albert999's picture

December 28, 2018 at 11:09 am

just needs not pigeon holing

+ REPLY
-1 points
0
1
jeepingmakooi's picture

December 28, 2018 at 07:01 am

Rd 1. Edge rusher, true free saftey
Rd2. Oline
Rd3 wr or takented tight end
Rd4 middle linebacker who can can cover tight ends if he needs too
Rd 5 call me crazy but I want another CB
Rd 6 find me a player with good intangibles with good physical testing that still left
Rd7.. anybody.. somebody.. to help this special teams unit.

+ REPLY
-2 points
0
2
pooch's picture

December 28, 2018 at 07:07 am

2 #1s

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
jeepingmakooi's picture

December 28, 2018 at 07:47 am

Yep that's why I have edge rusher and true saftey. My picks.. sweat and Lukas daniel

+ REPLY
-2 points
0
2
pooch's picture

December 28, 2018 at 08:29 am

missed that

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

December 28, 2018 at 08:22 am

2 #1s is right first. let me tell you about the safety you want. All right now are clocked at 4.5. FS Thompson a Jr. and T. Rapp Jr. Rapp was considered the best safety in the country. (both Dix all over again. ) The packers hole is at ILB and F Safety. Unless your happy with Morrison, etc. You want a edge Rusher? Polite , Sweat, will be taken Rd. 1 that would be in the #15 PICK RANGE. OTHERWISE YOU HAVE TO TRADE A #1 or #2 to go up. The Ot in that range is Little another Jr. Better /Need are later. You might have to replace Wilkerson. A DT must be considered. The mistake this draft would be is taking a safety and OL early. The better option is White. The edge rusher is deep this draft. BPA is White if he tests Ok.

+ REPLY
-1 points
1
2
jeepingmakooi's picture

December 28, 2018 at 08:59 am

Lowery and Lancaster have both shown me we don't need Wilkerson or to draft d line early in this draft. And I disagree... I've been watching alot ND I mean alot of collage tape on safeties... Enough that my wife is sick of my YouTube being on... And Lukas seems to me to be the most verstile

+ REPLY
-3 points
0
3
stockholder's picture

December 28, 2018 at 11:03 am

Lowery and Lancaster. 1. Wilkerson would not have been signed if Lowery was the answer. Lowery does do better over the RT. Lancaster starts? And then you move Clark over LT? Maybe. But who replaces Lancaster? Some drafts have Lawrence coming to GB. He has a game suspension for substance. Simmons who also has been mocked to the packers. He has an off field issue with a woman. Gary and Wilkins could fall. Value there. So you'd reach for a safety? Not me. Try not to watch U tube. Believe in the scouting reports first. Most scouts have a top 50 for that reason.

+ REPLY
-1 points
0
1
jeepingmakooi's picture

December 28, 2018 at 01:54 pm

I read the scout reports.. follow the majority of the scouts from GB and a couple other teams on Twitter and I see who they are high on.. and considering the lack luster job of safety play on our team.. I think a first rounder is worth it. As for the replacement.. udfa or a free agent would be fine.. why take a high draft pick where we have taken vs where we have litteraly none.

+ REPLY
-2 points
0
2
albert999's picture

December 28, 2018 at 08:29 am

OL is first round.....Rodgers is our number 1 asset....have to protect him

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
jeepingmakooi's picture

December 28, 2018 at 09:02 am

So just skip the great edge rushers this year and hope you can get one of the high priced free agents?... No thanks.

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
albert999's picture

December 28, 2018 at 09:57 am

If you read my post i said edge rusher 3rd pick
can also free up a lot more money dumping cobb,mathews,spriggs,perry and maybe go after clowney in FA

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
jeepingmakooi's picture

December 30, 2018 at 08:37 am

I've seen a couple mocks with Chase winovich form Michigan being our second round pick

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

December 28, 2018 at 11:17 am

OL first round. No shot at Williams now. Next is Little a Jr. Not buying in. You take a TE over a OT this draft. in first rd. 2-4 rounds perfect and for a safety. also a OT. Who? Risner,Cajuste, Prince, Scharping. All 2-4. Risner and Scharping project to Rg. Cajuste LT but would be a LG too, Prince RT. Now my choice at guard is Benzschawel, and Linstrom is small college who has not given up a sack this year.

+ REPLY
-1 points
0
1
jeepingmakooi's picture

December 30, 2018 at 07:44 am

Benzschawel willl probably go first round. What about Edwards from Wisconsin I believe blecher mock has him coming to GB

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
jeepingmakooi's picture

December 30, 2018 at 08:18 am

My bad blecher does not have him coming here

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

December 30, 2018 at 08:41 am

The packer want 6'5" not taller. Taller OL have back problems. Harder to throw over too.

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
HankScorpio's picture

December 28, 2018 at 09:18 am

"OL first 2 picks
Edge rusher 3rd pick"

Typical draft value says you need to flip that if you want to succeed. Edge rushers go off the board quickly. It's much easier to find OL later in the draft.

+ REPLY
0 points
2
2
albert999's picture

December 28, 2018 at 09:59 am

Why be typical?
Look what it did for TT being typical

+ REPLY
-1 points
0
1
The TKstinator's picture

December 28, 2018 at 10:22 am

@albert: All you’re doing is prioritizing needs. You can’t “plan” picks that way.

+ REPLY
1 points
1
0
albert999's picture

December 28, 2018 at 11:12 am

Plan and pick what falls to you as need and best player available!

+ REPLY
-1 points
0
1
The TKstinator's picture

December 28, 2018 at 06:43 pm

No.

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
albert999's picture

December 27, 2018 at 08:59 pm

Sprinkle in whatever else we need with the rest of the picks and fill up big holes with FA and maybe a veteran backup QB

+ REPLY
1 points
1
0
Colin_C's picture

December 27, 2018 at 09:16 pm

Agree 100% with you Andy, but if people haven't moved on by now they never will. To me the biggest miss in that draft anyways was Lawson. I'd have taken him over Biegel, and in hindsight I'd take him over Watt.

All water under the bridge now, as the focus will be on drafting the correct edge player(s) in 2019. Lots of options between day one and two, a lot of whom I think will be better than Watt.

+ REPLY
-1 points
0
1
jeremyjjbrown's picture

December 27, 2018 at 11:51 pm

How do you move on when from someone when there was never a thing with them? Your actually moving on from a fantasy.

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
Lphill's picture

December 28, 2018 at 05:41 am

The article is just making a point hard to compare because King is oft injured but I would have been happier with Watt bottom line. So yes we can move on but we always remember the one that got away .

+ REPLY
-1 points
1
2
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

December 28, 2018 at 09:06 am

The Watt-King/Biegel thing was part of evaluating TT's ability as a GM. TT is gone now, so it should largely be a moot point. I suppose until we get a competent pass rushing OLB, some folks will look back on Watt, even if they romanticize Watt's abilities. To a certain extent it also reflected on Capers and whether he had sufficient talent to field a decent defense, but he's gone, too.

+ REPLY
1 points
1
0
ILPackerBacker's picture

December 28, 2018 at 11:48 am

This is a really weak and sad argument. Nobody is comparing a wish list of woulda, coulda, shoulda. This is directly comparing what was an evident at the time bad decision, following in the footsteps of bad decisions over years of time. And the REALITY of what happened.

If you think it is anything but damning teddie to say his defense is that he never had TJ as a real player to begin with.....well stop wasting electrons.

You can not excuse this terrible decision by saying the excuse is teddie didn't think the guy he passed on was good. HELLO that is the point. Teddie did not know what he was doing at the time he didn't do it and at the time he proved his day had set years before

+ REPLY
-1 points
2
3
Swisch's picture

December 28, 2018 at 07:46 pm

(1) It seems Kyler Fackrell is a good reason to not give up on Kevin King too easily. Casey Hayward is another.
(2) As for this draft, it seems offensive line needs to be our top priority, even if it doesn't necessarily mean our top picks.
(3) I wonder what the odds are of finding an elite edge rusher in any round of any draft. Still, it seems like a good idea to try for one at some point in every draft.

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
Doug Niemczynski's picture

December 29, 2018 at 10:53 am

Vince Lombardi — 'Gentlemen, we will chase perfection, and we will chase it relentlessly, knowing all the while we can never attain it.

+ REPLY
2 points
2.5
0.5
Cheesehead79's picture

December 29, 2018 at 07:57 am

It does need to die, because there’s NOTHING you can do to get T.J. Watt on the team. It’s over. But, let’s look at this year, passing on Derwin James. Wow. TWO first round draft picks! Great. Well, if they aren’t TWO future HOF picks this year then it was a bad move. Derwin James, if healthy, will be a future HOF’er. It’s not just Thompson. It’s the organization’s formulaic approach to everything. Drafting for need instead of best available. Willing to gamble, but not willing to go all in.

+ REPLY
-2 points
0
2
Doug Niemczynski's picture

December 29, 2018 at 10:57 am

And, to continue. ..for a little more input...

Even though perfection cannot be achieved or attained we will be closer and better than the team that fails to reach our aspirations.

+ REPLY
2 points
2.5
0.5
Cheesehead79's picture

December 29, 2018 at 08:20 am

And the Kyler Fackrell thing is a trap. The guy has been a bust since day one. He’s had a good year, or at least two great games. It’ll be Nick Perry all over again. He is what he is, a serviceable LB who provides quality depth, NOT a full time starter. But who knows. You’re starting to see that lots of these players were worth the money they got paid (Hayward, Hyde). And were Pro Bowlers, just not for the Packers because the organization didn’t know how to use them.

+ REPLY
1 points
2
1
Doug Niemczynski's picture

December 29, 2018 at 10:59 am

We have to get at least 2-3 blockbuster free agents bare minimum and SOLID draft. We cannot mess up anymore. Get NEW scouts if we have to .

+ REPLY
0 points
1
1
Doug Niemczynski's picture

December 29, 2018 at 08:57 pm

Is the nfl draft soon? Sunday is the last game. Goodbye 2018.

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0
LeotisHarris's picture

December 29, 2018 at 10:22 pm

Reach out for help, Doug. Never choose a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It'll all be okay.

+ REPLY
0 points
0
0

Log in to comment and more!

Not a member yet? Join free.

If you have already commented on Cheesehead TV in the past, we've created an account for you. Just verify your email, set a password and you're golden.