Draftin' Ain't Easy: How the Packers Have Drafted Since 2017

Some teams navigate the draft waters better than others. 

The NFL Draft officially kicks off nearly two weeks from today, which means the hype machines, mock drafts, and the hot and cold takes will finally go to the wayside. As much as we all want to believe a particular player is destined for stardom, or that a particular player is undoubtedly going to be bust, the reality is that the draft is an inexact science. There are, however, some teams that navigate the draft waters better than others. 

SB Nation’s Minnesota Vikings site, the Daily Norseman, analyzed draft picks from 1996 until 2016 and found that, based on Approximate Value (AV) populated by Pro Football Reference, only 7.9% of the draftees were considered “great” or “legendary,” 12.3% were considered “good,” 10.5% were considered “average” (“mediocre players that had starts or significant contributions over 2-3 years”), 15.3% were considered “poor” (“limited playing time and didn’t do well in the time they had”), and 37% were “useless,” meaning “they didn’t play much or didn’t make the team.” More takeaways here

How have the Packers fared at finding talent throughout the draft under general manager Brian Gutekunst? Pro Football Focus analyzed draft selections from 2011 to 2022 to see how well front offices performed in the draft, measured by “PFF wins above replacement over a four-year rookie contract.” PFF split it up into two groups: 2011-2022 and 2017-2022. I’ll focus only on the latter, as that most accurately represents how Gutekunst has performed since taking over at the helm in 2018. 

The Packers ranked 17th in terms of draft success in the first round, taking into account positional value, and 7th in the NFC. The Packers traded out of the first round in 2017 but struck gold in 2018 with cornerback Jaire Alexander (18th overall) and in 2019 with edge rusher Rashan Gary (12th overall). The first-round pick in 2019 of safety Darnell Savage (21st overall) looked promising in the early going, but the Maryland product significantly regressed a season ago and was benched midseason. It is still way too early to tell about how Jordan Love, the team’s 2020 first-round selection (26th overall), will pan out, if for no other reason than he has seen limited meaningful snaps. If the Packers hit the lottery with Love, that would change the trajectory of the future and would boost the aforementioned ranking. 

Cornerback Eric Stokes, a 2021 first-round selection (29th overall), had an exceptional rookie season – his 49.5% completion percentage ranked fourth among defensive backs targeted more than 45 times and seventh for all defenders. However, he struggled in 2022 and allowed a completion percentage of 80%, 13.1 yards per completion (up from 10.6), 10.4 yards per target (up from 5.3), and a passer rating of 123.5 (up from 71.3). He suffered season-ending injuries in Week 9 against the Detroit Lions. 

The Packers made two first-round selections in 2022 – linebacker Quay Walker (22nd overall) and defensive lineman Devonte Wyatt (28th overall). Walker appeared in all 17 games and finished the season with 121 combined tackles to go along with five tackles for loss and an Approximate Value of 7. Wyatt, meanwhile, saw limited action as he played in 23 percent of the team’s defensive snaps. 

On Day 2 (rounds 2 and 3), the Packers have been below average since 2017. The team ranked 27th. 

  • CB Kevin King (2nd round in 2017): Certainly a player that saw the field with the Packers, and that’s all I need to write about him. 
  • DT Montravius Adams (3rd round in 2017): Only appeared in 45 games in four seasons with the team, including three starts. 
  • CB Josh Jackson (2nd round in 2018): Had a solid rookie campaign, but did not make it to the end of his four-year rookie contract. 
  • LB Oren Burks (3rd round in 2018): Was thought to be the team’s starting linebacker for seasons to come, but he never turned into starting material. Signed with the 49ers last offseason. 
  • OL Elgton Jenkins (2nd round in 2019): Home-run pick. Has played every position along the offensive line, except for center, since entering the league. Two-time Pro Bowl selection and recently signed a four-year, $68-million deal with the Packers. 
  • TE Jace Sternberger (3rd round in 2019): Sticking with the baseball theme, this was a big ole swing and miss, considering Washington Commanders standout WR Terry McLaurin was selected with the very next pick. Sternberger only spent two seasons in Green Bay. 
  • RB AJ Dillon (2nd round in 2020): Had seven rushing touchdowns in 2022, a career best, but his yards-per-carry average dipped from 4.3 in 2021 to 4.1 despite almost the exact same number of carries. He also had 90 fewer yards after contact in 2022 compared to 2021. 
  • TE Josiah Deguara (3rd round in 2020): He has been valuable to the Packers in the run game, but has added little to no value in the passing game. As of now, he's TE1 for 2023. 
  • C Josh Myers (2nd round in 2021): Inconsistent start to his career. Posted a disappointing PFF grade of 60.4 in 2022, which ranked 27th among centers that played at least 300 snaps. 
  • WR Amari Rodgers (3rd round in 2021): Yikes. 
  • WR Christian Watson (2nd round in 2022): He has star potential. Among rookie wide receivers, he finished tied for first in receiving touchdowns (7), third in yards (611), and fifth in targets (66) and receptions (41). He also had produced nine total touchdowns, tied for the most among all rookies.
  • OL Sean Rhyan (3rd round in 2022): Early returns have been awful. Was suspended for six games of the 2022 season for violating the NFL’s policy on performance-enhancing substances. Only saw action in one game last season, which came on special teams. 

Finally, the Packers rank 21st on Day 3 (4th round to 7th round) in team draft success from 2017 until 2022. While the ranking is below average, Green Bay has found valuable players in the later rounds, including RB Aaron Jones (2017 5th round), WR Marquez Valdes-Scantling (2018 fifth round), OL Jon Runyan (2020 6th round), WR Romeo Doubs (2022 4th round), and OL Zach Tom (2022 4th round). 

Overall, the Packers’ draft results under Gutekunst have been nothing to write home about, but he has still landed quality starters, including an All-Pro cornerback, a top-end offensive lineman, and a potentially star wide receiver. He has also found value in the later rounds, which is not an easy feat. At the end of the day, the team is headed for a rebuild, as evidenced by minimum spending throughout the 2023 offseason, but one surefire way to keep the length of that rebuild to a minimum is to draft well. That starts in 2023. The Saints pulled off a helluva draft coup in 2017 as did the Seahawks in 2022. Will Gutekunst be able to do the same? 

 

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Rex is a lifelong Packers fan but was sick of the cold, so he moved to the heart of Cowboys country. Follow him on Twitter (@Sheild92) and Instagram (@rex.sheild). 

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Comments (64)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
packer132's picture

April 14, 2023 at 12:27 pm

Drafting is an educated guessing game, and I have seen 10 players that the experts think the Packers will take in the first round. It's exciting to see great college players come and try to make an impact at the NFL level. Interesting article from Mile High report shows after 5 years in the NFL, 1st round has 71% of players still on the roster. 2nd round is 41.9% and 3rd round a measly 18.8%. Packers have picked at the end of the round for many years due to their good regular season record. I don't see them trading up from #15 and small chance to trade back for an extra pick. Only two more weeks to analyze and dissect the new rookie class.

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PatrickGB's picture

April 14, 2023 at 01:00 pm

I think that drafting at the end of rounds has had a deleterious effect on our drafts. The quality drops and it becomes more of a guessing game.

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 14, 2023 at 04:02 pm

That's a very good point. I wonder what team ranks would be when overlayed with drafting position. Did the Lions rank highly, while drafting atop of the rounds for so many years. Chicago?

2 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

April 14, 2023 at 03:57 pm

Successful drafting comes down to hard work & research, guess, along with some good luck!

I look at all the great suggestions and comments made here at CCTV from many intelligent posters on who the Packers should select, & it is all over the board. This simply solidifies the fact that there is a lot of guess work & finger crossing involved by NFL teams.

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davekenya's picture

April 14, 2023 at 07:28 pm

...yes, the Packers have been drafting more at the end of rounds than most teams. The article mentions factoring in positional value -- isn't this a fancy way of saying they account for draft position?

Does this article somehow factor in 'trading away draft picks for players'?
It seems the Packers do this less than other teams (trading a #1 or #2 rounder for a proven veteran). Thus, we should expect that the Packers would do relatively better as they have more 'swings at the plate' at players and yet that doesn't seem to hold up.

If Gute chronically is a poor drafter and can't seem to correct it, then he should probably trade away more picks for NFL players...as at least we'd get more return value than we seem to be getting with our draft picks relative to most other teams...

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splitpea1's picture

April 14, 2023 at 01:08 pm

Interesting articles, both here and from the Norseman. Just some miscellaneous comments:

LOL, 37% "useless"....That sounds kind of humorous, but I guess not for the employer who's handing out a bunch of money for nothing.

"Drafting players is difficult at least in part because the scouting and evaluating part is the easy part. The more difficult part is developing the players you drafted.... How much work and discipline a player will exhibit....Player development may also be affected by coaching ability....and fit in the particular scheme." Very true. Anybody could be a successful drafting GM if all it took was punching a bunch of athletic measurements in the computer and selecting prospects according to the best numbers. In the Packers case, the Stokes pick doesn't really fit the scheme, but hopefully he can learn to adjust; or maybe Barry can learn to adjust, IDK.

I don't think the NFL overvalues first round picks (more talent=greater chance for success with all other things being equal), but later round picks are definitely undervalued.

Gute hit gold with Jaire and Jenkins. Gary was also a good pick, but let's keep him in the silver category until he returns in full form, improves his run defense, and at least makes a Pro Bowl.

The last draft seems pretty encouraging. Gute is going to need to keep it up as there is obviously no guarantee that we're going to be trotting out our third HOF QB in a row. Like it or not, until the tail end of his career, the play of Rodgers has masked a lot of shortcomings on the overall team (maybe this wasn't always true in the playoffs, but definitely the regular season).

7 points
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davekenya's picture

April 14, 2023 at 07:12 pm

For me, 'keeping Gary in silver until he returns in full form' doesn't reflect draft success as much as 'injury luck'...in that Gary did not have a college injury history making him a risky pick. To me, it just doesn't seem fair to 'ding' a GM for a poor draft pick b/c a player gets injured later on. Who would ever know that?

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splitpea1's picture

April 14, 2023 at 07:52 pm

Nobody is dinging anybody. Gary just hasn't received any individual honors yet--unlike Jaire and Jenkins, who are two-time Pro Bowlers and are more accomplished at their respective positions at this point.

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2023 at 01:13 pm

Drafting is easy. Living with it afterwards is the hard bit.

3 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

April 14, 2023 at 01:32 pm

If you think draftin’ ain’t easy, try pimpin’!

(Can’t say I’ve ever tried. I’m just trusting the Godfather’s evaluation here.)

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LLCHESTY's picture

April 15, 2023 at 08:36 am

Pimping is easy, you just have to find a good main ho. At least that's what I heard in rap song once.

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TKWorldWide's picture

April 15, 2023 at 04:26 pm

Guy named Gator dominated once upon a time.
(Saw that in a movie once. I think it was a documentary.)

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Heyward's picture

April 14, 2023 at 01:40 pm

I didn't need to do a league-wide analysis to know that Gutekunst has been below average after the first round. He got away with it because of Rodgers, but he'll need to do a lot better going forward or he'll be looking for another job in a few years.

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TKWorldWide's picture

April 14, 2023 at 03:19 pm

But!
He was much more aggressive in FA than TT ever was. Had some positives there. But now the kicked can is coming due. That’s why I’m in the “take as much of the dead cap hit NOW camp”.
Take the year to see how Love looks. Then just keep moving forward with a little more $ room available.

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davekenya's picture

April 14, 2023 at 07:14 pm

A 'feather in the cap' for Gute is that in looking at almost 700 UFAs who signed with new teams b/t 2020 and 2022...the Packers were #1....#1!!...in terms of AV gained per 1M spent on UFAs. (It may be no coincidence this was led by the likes of Campbell and Douglass. He's definitely done VERY WELL in this aspect...especially considering he likely didn't learn a lot about this from TT...

5 points
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Packers0808's picture

April 14, 2023 at 06:31 pm

Guess Packers need you as chief scout.

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stockholder's picture

April 14, 2023 at 01:54 pm

KNOW your history first! 2011- So you want a OT,WR, RB, CB, @ TEs - How about the next LT? Tony Mandrich and Spriggs ? BPA 2023!

1 Derek Sherrod 32 T 3 2011 2014
2 Randall Cobb 64 WR 12 2011 2022
3 Alex Green 96 RB 3 2011 2013
4 Davon House 131 DB 8 2011 2018
5 D.J. Williams 141 TE 3 2011 2013
6 Caleb Schlauderaff 179 G 2 2011 2013
6 D.J. Smith 186 LB 4 2011 2014
6 Ricky Elmore 197 DL
7 Ryan Taylor 218 TE 4 2011 2014
7 Lawrence Guy 233 DT 11 2012 2022

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Johnblood27's picture

April 14, 2023 at 02:51 pm

Cobb and Guy are the only winners there.

A #2 and a #7...

Crapshoot at absolute best.

All the hype for a bunch of kids that just suck at the next level... when will "fans" (suckers) ever learn.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

April 14, 2023 at 07:12 pm

Lawrence Guy was a good choice, but he drops him to snag a sp teams guy for a game. He went on to start for Indy and Big Bad Bill. Still starting. I still recall bitching about exposing him. Some real demoralizing choices in his mix. Another extra pick to move on Spriggs, a converted TE.

2 points
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Leatherhead's picture

April 14, 2023 at 02:56 pm

The Daily Norseman, Christopher Gates, was a poster over at Zbuds under the name SuperGonzo, and he used to say preposterously stupid things, such as his proclamation before the 2010 season that the Vikings were "the clear class of the division" (they finished last that year, and 3 out of the next 4). Anything of his that you read .......bring the salt.

I'm a huge believer that the bell curve reigns, so when I see a sample that has 34% as "useless" and another 32% listed as great, good, or average, it gives a pretty skewed curve, so I'm skeptical of their categorizations.

Since 2017, we've added Alexander, Savage, Gary, Stokes, Walker, Wyatt, Enagbare and Slaton to the defense via the draft. On offense, Dillon, Love, Jenkins, Myers,Tom, Runyan, Watson, Doubs, Deguara.....that's quite a few good players, IMO. There's no way I can grade our drafting lower than a B.

Apparently, there is a power ranking for GMs, and I found out Gutekunst is in the Top 10. I wonder where he'll be if we get #13 in the trade?

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2023 at 03:03 pm

Comparing the list of 2/3 picks in the article, we seem ahead of the curve described by the Vikings article.

Yes there. Boom (rarely) and bust (less so) and a lot in between, but actually more up than predicted. The draft is like a baseball average. A winning percentage still means losing more often than not.

2 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

April 15, 2023 at 09:15 am

I think they could easily end up with 12 picks(Jets 2nd round and pick up one in a trade down). They have enough needs where waiting and picking three from the same position later and hoping 2 work out could be the way to go. To me that's naturally safety this year given Gutey's reliance on athletic traits. Some of the better athletes at safety this year are day 3 picks. I'd really like to seemthem pick Jordan Battle at 78 as a high floor guy and then take a couple home run or strikeout swings later at guys like Daniel Scott or Jason Taylor.

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PackyCheese500's picture

April 15, 2023 at 11:01 am

Taylor looks great

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 14, 2023 at 04:06 pm

Gutey making a top list of GMs is quite an accomplishment, especially since he isn't the Acting GM, Murphy is.

1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

April 15, 2023 at 08:43 am

I think Gutey would eventually get another shot at a GM spot if the Love experiment fails and he's let go. Other people in the NFL probably have a much better handle on who is doing what in the Packer organization.

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jont's picture

April 14, 2023 at 05:22 pm

"Apparently, there is a power ranking for GMs, and I found out Gutekunst is in the Top 10."

I saw that and clicked. It was one guy's opinion. Clickbait.

1 points
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greengold's picture

April 16, 2023 at 05:16 am

Zbud’s was great! A lot of fun people there.

0 points
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Packer_Fan's picture

April 14, 2023 at 03:30 pm

Good info here. So at the best, only a third of draft picks pan out. Meaning average or above average.

So for all you draftnicks out there, thinking that you know better than Gute, well you might want to think again.

Since drafting is a risky business, the most logical thing to do is trade down and get as many picks as possible to improve your chance of success. So Gute, trade down.

1 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

April 14, 2023 at 04:12 pm

I see pros and cons for going trading up or down. I am with you, that for this draft, trading down should be more attractive to Gutey.

The draft is so deep at TE, Edge, WR, OL...plenty of opportunities to address several needs and select the BAP at each of these positions. DL is a need too and maybe a good prospect would fall into day 2.

Added benefit is adding rookie talent to the roster and lower the salary costs. Gotta fight that cap monster.

1 points
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NoNonsense's picture

April 14, 2023 at 03:56 pm

Drafting is easy...on a simulator!

My favorite mock so I had to post.

Traded Rodgers for 42 and 170 this year and a 2nd next year.

1.15 Dalton Kincaid TE
2.42 Adetomiwa Adebawore EDGE/3T
2.45 Darnell Washington TE
3.78 Sydney Brown S
4.116 Johnathan Mingo WR
5.143 Braeden Daniels OG
5.149 Habakkuk Baldonado EDGE
6.170 Colby Wooden DT
7.232 Tyson Bagent QB
7.235 Jordan Howden S
7.242 Bumper Pool LB
7.256 Matt Landers WR

Love Adetomiwa, 6'1 280 with nearly 34 inch arms. My new draft crush and GB brought him in for a top 30 visit. Heck I might take him in the first at 15, that's how much I like him. Aaron Donald like potential, IMO.

-2 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

April 14, 2023 at 04:00 pm

Nice NoNonsense!

Kincaid or Johnston are always my #15 pick. Sometimes if Bijan is there I grab him instead. If you could get Darnell Washington at 45 that would be amazing but unfortunately I think he is long gone by then.

-1 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

April 14, 2023 at 04:15 pm

That's a good draft. 5 prospects that should contribute on game days. Drafting "Bumper Pool" pushed up your grade!

2 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

April 15, 2023 at 10:52 am

15 is WAY too early for Kincaid. If we really want him we can trade down and get him. I think there are better TE prospects in late R1 or R2.

From what i have heard Adetomiwa is a bit of a positional tweener. If we can find a good position for him I think he could be a great player. His combine was truly impressive. Maybe 3-4 DE?

I think Adeboware at 15 is a bit rich, but I would not mind using our 3rd and one of our second rounders (provided we get another R2 from the Jets) to trade up and get him.

2 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

April 14, 2023 at 04:11 pm

Nice article Rex!

I have been saying it and will continue to say it because it just doesn't seem to be hitting home for most of you! This is also why I know Gutey will not trade up for a WR like JSN.

The mistake I believe most everyone here keeps making are the Packers need WR's, & TE's, but everyone lumps the move TE's with the inline TE's. I strongly believe Gutey is looking very hard at turning receiving TE's who can run like Dalton Kincaid, Luke Musgrave, Zach Kuntz into power/big slot WR's. Where they can use their size/strength/reach to block out and out muscle the smaller defensive players. No longer do slot WR's have to be those smaller quick & twitchy receivers. Musgrave, Kincaid, Kuntz will not normally play a traditional TE in the Packer offense. I believe the power/big slot WR will be taken high in the draft, and the inline TE (unless it is Washington) will be drafted later in the draft. Look for guys like Kincaid/Musgrave high in round 1 or 2, and then start looking at the really good blocking inline TE's and you can figure one of them will be drafted later in the draft. With the WR's being a less than stellar year for this position group in the draft.....look for Gutey taking one of these players and converting them to a power/big slot WR's. Find it exciting!!!

0 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

April 15, 2023 at 08:57 am

Musgrave has the size and attitude (if not the technique) to play inline. Kincaid has neither and moving from Lazard to Kincaid would cost the Packers in the running game, even if it eventually adds to the passing attack.

1 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

April 15, 2023 at 10:08 am

LL,
Frankly, I do not know how one compares blocking aptitude and attitude as it relates to blocking between a professional football player & a soon to be professional player. Not trying to be a smart a$$! Just not sure how it can be done unless Kincaid was on the field and watching him. Being that Kincaid is bigger & presumably stronger guy than Lazard who has been playing TE for a number of years, I would 'think' with his experience at TE he would be at least adequate at blocking, and particularly since he would mostly be blocking defensive backs if he was playing a big/power slot WR. No doubt Kincaid would become more proficient at blocking if he is instructed this is what he must do to be on the field. Much like AJ had to do to consistently be on the field in picking up the blitzer. I recall the funny story of David Bachtiari telling Tonyan he needs to step his blocking efforts at a Thanksgiving dinner at one of the players homes.

0 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

April 15, 2023 at 10:48 am

Musgrave has no YAC ability at all (important for a TE) and with his injuries and lack of experience there are way too many red flags for him IMO.

Kincaid may be a good pass-catcher, but I don't see him as being stellar on the NFL level. His blocking leaves a lot to be desired. Who knows? He may be a star, but I don't think he is worth a round 1 pick, and certainly not the 15th overall pick.

Kuntz could be an interesting project in round 4 or so, although my preference at TE is to pick up SDSU's Tucker Kraft. He is athletic and can do everything that is asked of him. With technical development he could be great, and he is already a great run blocker. A great round 2 prospect.

There are actually a few WRs I really like this year. Cedric Tillman of Tennessee is my favorite - he fits just what the Packers are looking for in every aspect of WR. He has super strong hands, and I think he could be great as a round 2 pick. Jonathan Mingo of Mississippi is another guy I like, and Bryce Ford-Wheaton of WV is another guy I really like to develop (his combine [and highlights] were insane!!)

0 points
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ko40489's picture

April 14, 2023 at 04:44 pm

Overall, I think Gute's drafts have graded out at a C. No question he's hit big on a number of picks, but he's missed on way too many. Everyone knows the pathetic track record in the 3rd round. So is a C good enough? Not in my book, particularly when he's largely stayed away from big free agent signings.
Last season a C season-- 8 and 9 record and missed the playoffs. Seems Murphy thinks it's good enough because he extended Gute's contract last year. If the team isn't turned around in 2 years, it's time to clean house in the front office, and maybe the coaching staff.

1 points
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jont's picture

April 14, 2023 at 05:25 pm

I'm not sure what this says about GMs or drafting, but it does show how hard it is to succeed in the NFL. Everybody drafted is good, the cream of college football, and 1/3 of the picks are 'useless'. Tough job.

0 points
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davekenya's picture

April 14, 2023 at 07:18 pm

Very good article - I like reading information that's not just a rehash of 'yesterday's laundry'.
While a small-ish sample size, I wonder why Gute and crew do so much more poorly drafting day 2 and 3 than other clubs do. Do they stick more with BPA or fill a need...and other teams do the opposite? I would think their job would be somewhat easier than other clubs in that they've had the same HC and offensive approach...so should be able to 'draft for fit' better than clubs that have more HC churning...but that doesn't seem to be the case. This should probably be concerning to us.

1 points
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ko40489's picture

April 15, 2023 at 06:55 pm

I don't know the statistics, but it seems the Packers do better than a lot of team in finding decent undrafted free agents who can contribute. Makes no sense given their struggles in later round draft picks.

0 points
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Since'61's picture

April 15, 2023 at 07:50 am

Excellent article about the mediocre drafting by the Packers. 27th in the league on Day 2 is just not good enough. The article also proves that the draft is just a huge crapshoot supported by sports media hype at its most sensationalized levels.

I would grade the Packers drafts as a C at best. A few gems, plenty of average, and too many busts. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

April 15, 2023 at 10:40 am

I would say the same from 2018-2021, although Gutey's 2022 draft is looking amazing. Hopefully we can have similar success this year, as the depth in this class is really good.

3 points
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Since'61's picture

April 15, 2023 at 10:54 am

I would agree. 2022 could prove to be Gute's best draft. We need to give it another 2 seasons. Thanks, Since '61

1 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

April 16, 2023 at 04:01 am

Gute benefits in the day three ranking (21st) from the 2017 selections of Jamaal Williams and Aaron Jones. Of course, I don't know if those two players were selected by TT, Gute, or Elliot Wolf.

I still have a positive grade overall on Gute, but it is all due to his UDFA, free agency and pro personnel/waiver wire moves.

1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

April 15, 2023 at 08:25 am

I spent the 80's hoping they'd manage one good draft or a 1st round savior to help turn things around. They drafted two good players in the 1st round in the 80's, unfortunately one was forced to retire early do to neck issues and the 2nd eventually retired early for the same reason. The Rich Campbell pick crushed young Packer fans soul. I stayed home from school and was totally hyper when Hugh Green was still on the board when it was the Packers uen to pick. Glee quickly turned to despair.

It took me until the 90's to realize even a very qualified GM doesn't hit all that often. I don't think Gutey is a top 5 drafter but might be top 10 overall if you include FA signings. He and LaFleur were sure happy when they got Love, now we'll see if he can save their bacon.

3 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

April 15, 2023 at 04:37 pm

I remember the Campbell pick! My mom had listened to the proceedings on the radio and dutifully wrote down the names in her perfect “mom cursive” for me! I came home from school and saw “Campbell, QB, California” with the 6th overall. Too bad those hacks “Ronnie Lott” and “Kenny Easley” never panned out for their teams either.

2 points
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StarrtoRodgers's picture

April 15, 2023 at 04:55 pm

"I remember the Campbell pick! "

Hey TKW,

Yeah sad. What did you think of the Tony Mandarich pick with overall pick #2?

TKW, you seem like an intelligent person. Maybe you know the answers to these 2 simple Questions:

1) Less than 6 months ago, why were the Packers players on the field able to work together to go 13-3, 13-3, 13-4 and 3-1 - generating more wins and less losses over this 53 game period than any of the other 31 NFL teams - until Rodgers broke his thumb?

2) Specifically which players on the field were most important in sustaining this long period of on the field excellence generating more wins and less losses over this 53 game period than any of the other 31 NFL teams - until Rodgers broke his thumb?

0 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

April 15, 2023 at 07:27 pm

First of all, comparing 2022 to the 2019-21 seasons is faulty because of the large roster differences.

Secondly, even before his thumb injury, the decline in Rodgers' play was evident. Here are his stats from the first 5 games:

1,105 passing yards, 88.54 average passer rating, 8 TDs, 3 INT. Rodgers threw only one less pick in the span of 5 games in 2022 than he did for the ENTIRETY of 2021.

Losing a trusted pass-catcher like Davante Adams certainly hampered the pass game, and MLF 's refusal to commit to the run game along with a severely underperforming defense all contributed to the slip from 2021-2022

The problem is that retaining everyone and trying to run it back for 2023 would likely yield similar results to 2022 and could crush our salary cap for the future. While it may have been feasible in the present to kick the can down the road, it would have absolutely CRUSHED our future, so I am thankful the Packers are waking up.

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StarrtoRodgers's picture

April 15, 2023 at 08:54 pm

Packy Cheese 500:

Thanks.

For frame of reference, these were the questions:

1) Less than 6 months ago, why were the Packers players on the field able to work together to go 13-3, 13-3, 13-4 and 3-1 - generating more wins and less losses over this 53 game period than any of the other 31 NFL teams - until Rodgers broke his thumb?

2) Specifically which players on the field were most important in sustaining this long period of on the field excellence generating more wins and less losses over this 53 game period than any of the other 31 NFL teams - until Rodgers broke his thumb?

Packy Cheese thanks for taking a reasonable crack at it. Below are my responses for discussion purposes.

Packy Cheese: "First of all, comparing 2022 to the 2019-21 seasons is faulty because of the large roster differences."

STR: Packy Chese, I am very familiar with the Packer roster in 2021's 13-4 season and 2022's roster. Specifically what "large roster differences" are you speaking of? Specifics please.

Packy Cheese: "Secondly, even before his thumb injury, the decline in Rodgers' play was evident. Here are his stats from the first 5 games:

1,105 passing yards, 88.54 average passer rating, 8 TDs, 3 INT. Rodgers threw only one less pick in the span of 5 games in 2022 than he did for the ENTIRETY of 2021."
Though you are now talking about Rodgers and not addressing my 2 specific questions, let's address your point.

STR: From football reference dot com, Rodgers had 168 pass attempts, 114 completions, 67.8% completion average, 1,157 yards passing, 8 TDS, 3 INT, and a passer rating of 95.7 through 5 games.

At that pace, Rodgers would have placed 7th among 32 starting QBs that had at least 450 passing attempts for the season.

And as we know the Packers had 42 drops in 2022 and only 15 drops in 2021.

The impact of those drops on Rodgers numbers of course is substantial.

For instance if you take Christian Watson's memorable day 1 drop of a SURE 75 YARD TD and adjust Rodgers' numbers for that single drop, Rodgers passer rating climbs to 100.1.

A 100.1 passer rating would have placed Rodgers 5th at year end in Passer Rating among QBs with more than 450 pass attempts, trailing only Mahomes, Hurts, Geno Smith and Jared Goff.

Packy Cheese "Losing a trusted pass-catcher like Davante Adams certainly hampered the pass game, and MLF 's refusal to commit to the run game along with a severely underperforming defense all contributed to the slip from 2021-2022"

STR: Yes, and Davante Adams left for the Raiders for LESS MONEY due to young Brian trying to screw around and use leverage on a Receiver that had been loyal to the Packers for 8 years when he could have left much earlier. Brian tried to low ball Davante and get him to play for a 1 year franchise tag deal and RISK HIS PRIME athletic years with potential career ending injury. MVS was alienated by this as well.

Packy CheeseL The problem is that retaining everyone and trying to run it back for 2023 would likely yield similar results to 2022 and could crush our salary cap for the future. While it may have been feasible in the present to kick the can down the road, it would have absolutely CRUSHED our future, so I am thankful the Packers are waking up.

STR: The Packers have the 4th most Cap Space in the NFL and could easily have signed Lazard, Tonyan, and Reed for the numbers that the Jets, Bears and Seahawks gave them.

More background below:

The Packers actually have the 4th most cap space in the NFL,

And that is including the playing $31.6 cap hit of Aaron Rodgers - one year removed from leading all 32 teams' starting QBS in passer rating, a composite of completion %, interception %, touchdowns per pass attempt, and yards per pass attempt, not once but 2 years in a row and one year removed from 2 consecutive MVPs as well!!

And the Packers have the 4th most cap space in the NFL not only in terms of first 51 players, which is all that matters until September 2023:

Bears $38.3
Panthers $27.2
Lions $24.0
Packers $22.2 (adjusted $360K for the net effect of signing Dallin Leavitt for $1.4M and cutting Vernon Scott for a savings of $1.040M)
Texan $22.5
Least Cap Space:
Vikings $1.1

and also 4th most cap space in the NFL in terms of total players:

Bears $27.7 (64 players signed)
Panthers $19.0M (62 players signed)
Rams $13.4M (45 players signed)
Packers $12.3M (64 players signed)
Lions $8.7M (70 players signed)
Least Cap Space
Commanders -17.2 (75 players signed)

Google 2023 salary cap by team.

Try Over the Cap or Spotrac.

The Packers are 12 months removed from 13-3, 13-3, and 13-4 seasons.

They are also the 9th youngest team in the entire NFL.

Team age:

Rams 25.91
Titans 26.15
Browns 26.25
Giants 26.24
Colts 26.24
Chiefs 26.24
Bears 26.25
Bengals 26.27
Packers 26.29

Oldest Team:

Patriots 27.59

Rebuilding, cap hell, blah blah blah.

The Packers are currently $22.2 million under the salary cap per "Spotrac" - or $21.3 million under the cap if you prefer "Over the Cap"- on their first 51 players, which is all the Packers need to account for until September 2023 under NFL salary cap provisions before even considering the approximate $15.8 million more ($31.6 cap hit if Rodgers plays for the Packers in 2023 minus $15.8 cap hit) cap accounting dollars the Packers would save with a trade of Rodgers after June 1, 2023.

Nonetheless, the Packers have blown their chance to use some of that $22.2 million (Spotrac) - or $21.3 million (Over the Cap) if you prefer - to sign their own free agents - Tonyan (Bears 2023 cap hit $2.6 million) , Lazard (Jets 2023 cap hit $3.2 million), and Jarran Reed (Seahawks $3 million) or Cobb and Lewis who are both still unsigned and will each probably sign one year deals in the $2 to $2.5 million range.

And the Jets, who just signed Lazard two weeks ago have $9.8 in cap space for their first 51 players compared to the Packers $22.2 million for their first 51 players.

All these re Bears, Jets, Seahawks, etc. signings of Packer veterans Tonyan, Lazard, Reed, Cobb and Lewis will prove to have been more valuable contributors to winning than whomever Brian now searches and finds to replace them.

These Packer veterans positive effect on team morale and chemistry - intangibles - and obvious on field performance relative to the current "veteran" Packer wide receivers and current tight ends as a group and defensive linemen – won’t be so easy to find and replace.

Whatever management comes up with as replacements be at the same or similar salary cap dollars as the Jets and Bears paid to Lazard and Tonyan and Seahawks paid for Reed or a million or 2 million cheaper at the league minimum $750,000 for a first year player, league minimum $875,00 2nd year player or league minimum $940,000 3rd year player.

And the miserly Brian is saving these dollars for what reason?

“THE FUTURE IS NOW” as Redskin Coach George Allen once said as he formed the “Over the Hill Gang” and turned the Redskins into winners for the first time in their history.

Current Packer management just seems to know the cost of everything and the value of nothing - including intangibles.

The Packer 2023-24 team should be a 13-4 playoff team again - as it was a year ago at this time - if player personnel were managed prudently by the General Manager.

Anyone can be a Packer Front Office Bean Counter, the value comes with thinking and recognizing value, both intangible and tangible.

Hopefully the trade falls through and Rodgers is the backup to Jordan when the season starts and we see what Jordan does - which is most likely a flop by the end of 6 games. At that point, Rodgers can right the ship.

Hopefully Brain acts sensibly and signs Cobb and Lewis and Crosby.

Hopefully, Darnell Washington, JSN or Robinson are there at the 15th pick. - I would be happy with any of the 3.

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PackyCheese500's picture

April 15, 2023 at 09:30 pm

Thank you for your respectful response. I appreciate good dialogue.

On the subject of AR's stats: You have a fair point there. 7th best in the league isn't necessarily MVP material, but is still very good.

On the subject of roster differences: Za'Darius Smith, Billy Turner, Davante Adams, and Lucas Patrick were some notable players that left between 2021 and 2022. You can tell Z was missed by the D and their lack of pass rush and that Davante was missed by the O.

Personally, though, I think trading DA away was the right thing. He did not want to be here, he wanted to play with Carr and "didn't want to rebuild." Plus we got good capital which enabled us to pick Watson. If we paid him that likely would have meant that we couldn't have re-signed Rasul Douglas or De'Vondre Campbell, which would have made an already bad defense even worse. Shemar Jean-Charles would likely have had to start at perimeter CB for half the season.

I understand what the FO was trying to do by doubling down on defense, and I was originally on board with it. However, such an approach is bound to backfire when JOE BARRY is your DC. The problems in 2022 were not from player management or offseason approach; IMO the biggest ones were coaching decisions.

From letting Amari return kicks (and neglecting him on offense) to sticking with Lowry over Wyatt and playing Royce Newman over Yosh Nijman at the beginning of the seasons and the aforementioned Barry debacle, coaching ruined our season. If Dan Campbell or Mike Vrabel were our coach, we would have been a playoff team.

On the matter of the salary cap: This is where I strongly disagree. The Packers would not have been able to retain everyone. TGR outlines the Packers' significant cap problems in his article here: https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packers-restructured-campbell-and-douglas-744

Also, Lazard's average salary was 11 million, way more than the Packers would be willing to pay. Reed's was 4.5. Tonyan I think we could have retained for a cheap price, but I am fine letting him go. He was mostly average.

I also disagree with your criticism of Jordan Love. I have seen you bring up all these negatives about his college performances, but TBH that doesn't really matter. The Packers knew that Love possessed top-10 talent (and was thought to be a top-10 pick in the 2019 offseason), but that he would need much technical refinement. That is why he has been sitting behind Rodgers for 3 years, and that is probably the best a young QB could ask for; to sit behind one of the greatest QBs ever for 3 years during his prime. Tom Clements un-retiring also will help too.

In the end, there is nothing we can do about the FO's decisions. Rodgers will be traded to the Jets, and the transition to Love can happen. All we can do is try to help our team and root for the Packers. While I wanted the transition to Love to happen, even if the team traded Love and went all-in with Rodgers this year I would still be a Packers fan. I care more about the franchise than a single player. Instead of lamenting the decisions past, I can only look forward and hope everything turns out successfully. I urge you to do the same.

Now, in response to your two questions:

1. Because the Rodgers-Adams connection was able to mask the other shortcomings of the roster and of the coaching staff during the regular season against sub-par opponents. When the Packers faced good teams in the playoffs, either the defense was exposed because of its ineptitude, or the offense was shut down because of it's one-dimensionality. MLF may be a good OC, but he does not shine when the spotlight is brightest.

When Adams was traded it put more weight on MLF to create a more complicated scheme that spread the ball around and was more committed to the run. Unfortunately, he did not rise to the occasion, and his shortcomings as an NFL HC were exposed when Adams was traded.

2. Which players were the most important? As I said, Aaron Rodgers and Davante Adams. When Adams left (which was the right move), it was not the ineptitute of Aaron Rodgers or the offensive personell (who, when healthy, could be great), but the inability of the coaching staff to maximize the team's players and the team's strengths, both on offense and defense.

On offense, it was MLF's inability to commit to the run despite having Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon. On defense, it was the stubbornness of Joe Barry to keep playing zone coverage when his CBs clearly excel best in man, as well as valuing under-performers like Dean Lowry above real contributors like Devonte Wyatt. He also placed players like Adrian Amos, who, by nature, is a SS, in roles where they don't thrive, like FS.

I would also argue that Rashan Gary was another player who eventually evolved into one of the pillars for GB's success. He had 2 sacks in the SF game. Without Gary for half of the season, our D looked depleted.

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LLCHESTY's picture

April 15, 2023 at 08:25 am

Daily Double

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StarrtoRodgers's picture

April 15, 2023 at 10:08 am

1) Less than 6 months ago, why were the Packers players on the field able to work together to go 13-3, 13-3, 13-4 and 3-1 - generating more wins and less losses over this 53 game period than any of the other 31 NFL teams - until Rodgers broke his thumb?

2) Specifically which players on the field were most important in in sustaining this long period of on the field excellence generating more wins and less losses over this 53 game period than any of the other 31 NFL teams - until Rodgers broke his thumb?

If the Packers draft an offensive skill player in the first round – after never doing so for Rodgers in his 18 year tenure (last TE Bubba Franks 2000, last WR Javon Walker 2002, last RB Darrell Thompson 1990) – it will be because the Parasitic young ego and emotion driven Packer GM - and retiring President - both who have lived off of the Miracle Worker Rodgers and owe their continued employment to him - realize that Jordan Love can’t hold a candle to Aaron Rodgers.

Brian now has no other option.

Over the past 13 months Brian has destroyed the offense unnecessarily.

Brian by:

a) alienating Davante and MVS,

b) trading Rodgers over Brian's EMOTION, EGO AND JEALOUSY of Rodgers leadership and relationship with his teammates and public communication abilities,
and then

c) letting go of or alienating and pushing away players – young (Lazard and Tonyan) and older (Cobb, Lewis, Crosby) - that were particularly friendly with Rodgers

has DELIBERATELY DESTROYED a 13-3, 13-3, 13-4 team that was 3-1 and was heading toward another similar 13-3 or 13-4 season before injuries struck.

It takes DELIBERATE EFFORT to DESTROY a team that has gone 13-3, 13-3, 13-4 and 3-1 and has the best regular season record in football over those 53 games.

And for what?

The ego of JEALOUS young Brian – the general manager that feels inadequate in his place and life relative to the storied Packer Franchise’s longest tenured Packer who is loved and admired by all his teammates and any TRUE Packer fan.

Brian was not ready to be a general manager as he is too insecure to have conversations and discussions with and be questioned by the League's best and most intelligent quarterback - the person who is in arena, actually doing the REAL WORK and knows what is what, while Brian and arm chair Quarterbacks, who have never been in the arena, profess to know better.

It is THE PEOPLE (the players in the arena) that cripple themselves for life just to enrich these Parasite Billionaire Owners and the athletically talentless computer key tapping, pencil pushing, stuffed suit, otherwise empty life management parasites that lives off these players blood and sweat put out for our entertainment. And the athletically talentless wanna be arm chair GMs – with their empty lives - that post to these websites whining about the “spoiled” athletes are of the same ilk – church ladies living though gossip and drinking down Packer management PROPAGANDA and repeating it like unimaginative, unquestioning, un-critical thinking PARROTS..

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Shame on the man of cultivated taste who lets refinement to develop in to fastidiousness that unfits him for doing the rough work of a work day world."

Brian - AND THE PACKER "SUITS" - view Aaron and the other players as the ENEMY.

But "IT IS ABOUT THE PEOPLE" as Aaron tried to point out to Brian, the young pup who is expert at shuffling paper and calculating numbers.

The cancer to the team is the current PARASITIC Packer management who LIVED OFF Rodgers for 15 years and would have been long gone if Rodgers had not been around and led the Packers to more NFC playoff appearances (11) during his 15 years as starter than any other NFC team or QB, despite the Packers being the only team in the last 20 years - 2003 thru 2022 - to not have drafted a running back, wide receiver or tight end in the first round and despite being a team that had a top 10 defense only 3 times over 15 years relative to Brady's 12 times over the same 15 years.

And that failure in building at least a top 10 ranked defense is despite Brian having made SEVEN 1st round picks and the 1st pick of the 2nd round - Kevin King - on defense over the last 7 years. And certainly in the final couple years where Ted Thompson was terminally ill, Brian was effectively running the show then too..

And not to mention the lack of attention to special teams until Rich Bisaccia saved Brian's ass last year by directing Brian to Bisaccia’s former players that Rich had built relationships with.

It is interesting how people here parrot the propaganda and "talking points" Packer Management feeds to them and read to them.

Rebuilding, cap hell, blah blah blah.

Like a bewildered heard of lemmings and an angry mob they drink it down.

How about doing your own independent research and making some comparisons with other teams.

The Sky is not Falling.

The Packers actually have the 4th most cap space in the NFL,

And that is including the playing $31.6 cap hit of Aaron Rodgers - one year removed from leading all 32 teams' starting QBS in passer rating, a composite of completion %, interception %, touchdowns per pass attempt, and yards per pass attempt, not once but 2 years in a row and one year removed from 2 consecutive MVPs as well!!

And the Packers have the 4th most cap space in the NFL not only in terms of first 51 players, which is all that matters until September 2023:

Bears $38.3
Panthers $27.2
Lions $24.0
Packers $22.2 (adjusted $360K for the net effect of signing Dallin Leavitt for $1.4M and cutting Vernon Scott for a savings of $1.040M)
Texan $22.5

Least Cap Space:
Vikings $1.1

and also 4th most cap space in the NFL in terms of total players:

Bears $27.7 (64 players signed)
Panthers $19.0M (62 players signed)
Rams $13.4M (45 players signed)
Packers $12.3M (64 players signed)
Lions $8.7M (70 players signed)

Least Cap Space
Commanders -17.2 (75 players signed)

Google 2023 salary cap by team.

Try Over the Cap or Spotrac.

The Packers are 12 months removed from 13-3, 13-3, and 13-4 seasons.

They are also the 9th youngest team in the entire NFL.

Team age:

Rams 25.91
Titans 26.15
Browns 26.25
Giants 26.24
Colts 26.24
Chiefs 26.24
Bears 26.25
Bengals 26.27
Packers 26.29

Oldest Team:

Patriots 27.59

Rebuilding, cap hell, blah blah blah.
A LOWERING OF EXPECTATIONS AND AN EXCUSE AND COVER FOR BRIAN GUTEKUNST. PROPAGANDA PUT OUT BY PACKER MANAGEMENT FOR THE UNCRITICAL NON QUESTIONING PARROTS TO REPEAT.

The Packers are currently $22.2 million under the salary cap per "Spotrac" - or $21.3 million under the cap if you prefer "Over the Cap"- on their first 51 players, which is all the Packers need to account for until September 2023 under NFL salary cap provisions before even considering the approximate $15.8 million more ($31.6 cap hit if Rodgers plays for the Packers in 2023 minus $15.8 cap hit) cap accounting dollars the Packers would save with a trade of Rodgers after June 1, 2023.

Nonetheless, the Packers have blown their chance to use some of that $22.2 million (Spotrac) - or $21.3 million (Over the Cap) if you prefer - to sign their own free agents - Tonyan (Bears 2023 cap hit $2.6 million) , Lazard (Jets 2023 cap hit $3.2 million), and Jarran Reed (Seahawks $3 million) or Cobb and Lewis who are both still unsigned and will each probably sign one year deals in the $2 to $2.5 million range.

And the Jets, who just signed Lazard two weeks ago have $9.8 in cap space for their first 51 players compared to the Packers $22.2 million for their first 51 players.

All these re Bears, Jets, Seahawks, etc. signings of Packer veterans Tonyan, Lazard, Reed, Cobb and Lewis will prove to have been more valuable contributors to winning than whomever Brian now searches and finds to replace them.

These Packer veterans positive effect on team morale and chemistry - intangibles - and obvious on field performance relative to the current "veteran" Packer wide receivers and current tight ends as a group and defensive linemen – won’t be so easy to find and replace.

Whatever management comes up with as replacements be at the same or similar salary cap dollars as the Jets and Bears paid to Lazard and Tonyan and Seahawks paid for Reed or a million or 2 million cheaper at the league minimum $750,000 for a first year player, league minimum $875,00 2nd year player or league minimum $940,000 3rd year player.

And the miserly Brian is saving these dollars for what reason?

“THE FUTURE IS NOW” as Redskin Coach George Allen once said as he formed the “Over the Hill Gang” and turned the Redskins into winners for the first time in their history.

Current Packer management just seems to know the cost of everything and the value of nothing - including intangibles.

The Packer 2023-24 team should be a 13-4 playoff team again - as it was a year ago at this time - if player personnel were managed prudently by the General Manager.

Anyone can be a Packer Front Office Bean Counter, the value comes with thinking and recognizing value, both intangible and tangible.

Hopefully the trade falls through and Rodgers is the backup to Jordan when the season starts and we see what Jordan does - which is most likely a flop by the end of 6 games. At that point, Rodgers can right the ship.

Hopefully Brain acts sensibly and signs Cobb and Lewis and Crosby.

Hopefully, Darnell Washington, JSN or Robinson are there at the 15th pick. - I would be happy with any of the 3.

Below are lists of each offensive skill position- Running back/full back, tight end, QB and WR - drafted in all rounds over the last 20 years, 2003 thru 2022.

I have also listed all offensive skill players drafted in the first round - there has been ZERO offensive skill players drafted in the 1st round since WR Javon Walker in 2002 - since Vince Lombardi's 1st year as GM in 1959.

If the player made a pro bowl, I placed that designation after the pick #.

In the history of the Packers, Aaron Rodgers made the most pro bowls with 10, followed by Forrest Gregg and Brett Favre, both with 9.

In 2022 3 Packers made the pro bowl, Jaire Alexander (1st round pick), Elgton Jenkins (2nd round pick) and Keisean Nixon (signed as undrafted free agent by Raiders in 2019).

Running Backs:

Player, Draft Year, Round, Pick #

1) Brandon Jackson 2007, 2, 63
2) DeShawn Wynn 2010, 7, 228
3) Quinn Johnson 2009, 5, 145
4) James Starks 2010, 6, 193
5) Alex Green 2011, 3, 96
6) Eddie Lacy 2013, 2, 61 (1 time Pro Bowler)
7) Aaron Ripkowski (FB) 2015, 6, 206
8) Jamaal Williams 2017, 4, 134
9) Aaron Jones 2017, 5, 182 (1 time Pro Bowler)
10) Devante Mays 2017, 7, 238
11) Dexter Williams 2019, 6, 194
12) AJ Dillon 2020, 2, 62
12 running backs

Last first round picks of running backs going back to 1959:

Darrell Thompson 1990 Minnesota 19th pick Brent Fullwood 1987 Auburn pick 4 (1 time pro bowler) Eddie Lee Ivery 1979 Georgia Tech Pick 15 Barty Smith 1974 Richmond Pick 12 John Brockington 1971 Ohio State 9th pick (3 time pro bowler), Jim Grabowski 1966 Illinois 9th pick, Donny Anderson 1965 Texas Tech, 7th pick (1 time pro bowler), Earl Gros FB 1962 LSU 14th pick, Tom Moore1960 Vanderbilt 5th pick

Barry Sanders was there for the picking in 1989, but Packers with their 1st round pick, 2nd overall selected offensive tackle
Tony Mandarich.

Ahman Green (3rd round, 76th pick of Seattle) made the pro bowl 4 times as a halfback.

John Kuhn made the pro bowl 3 times as a fullback.

Dorsey Levens (5th round, 149 pick) pro bowl 1997 , Terdell Middleton (3rd round 80th pick) pro bowl 1978

William Henderson (3rd round, 66th pick) made the pro bowl 1 time as a full back.

Jim Taylor (2nd round, 15th pick, 1958) made the pro bowl 5 times as a fullback.

Paul Hornung (1st round, 1st overall pick 1957) made the pro bowl 2 times as a halfback.

Travis Jervey (5th round, 170th pick) , Packer Running back also made the pro bowl once in 1997 for his special teams play.

Tight Ends:

Player, Draft Year, Round, Pick #

1) Clark Harris, 2007, 7, 243
2) Jermichael Finley 2008, 3, 91
3) Andrew Quarless 2010, 5, 154
4) D. J. Williams 2011, 5, 141
5) Ryan Taylor 2011, 7, 218
6) Richard Rodgers 2014, 3, 98
7) Kennard Backman 2015, 6, 213
8) Jace Sternberger 2019, 3, 75
9) Josiah Deguara 2020, 3, 94
9 tight ends

Packer tight ends picked in the first round:

Bubba Franks 2000, 14th pick (3 pro bowls), Rich McGeorge 1970, 16th pick

Lombardi never picked a tight end in the first round from 1959 through his last year as GM in 1968.

Packer tight ends that have made the pro bowl beyond Bubba Franks:

March Chmura 1992, 6th round, 157th pick (3 pro bowls)

Keith Jackson 1988 1st round 13th pick (1 pro bowl with Packers - 4 other times with Eagles)

Ron Kramer 1957 1st round, 4th pick (

Quarterbacks:

Player, Draft Year, Round, Pick #

1)Aaron Rodgers 2005, 1, 24 (10 Pro Bowls)
2) Ingle Martin 2006, 5, 148
3) Brian Brohm, 2008, 2, 56
4) Matt Flynn, 2008, 7, 209
5) Brett Hundley, 2015, 5, 147
6) Jordan Love, 2020, 1, 26

6 Quarterbacks.

Packers QBs picked in the 1st round:

Rich Campbell 1981 6th pick, Jerry Tagge 1972 11th pick (Green Bay West High School), Don Horn 1967 25th pick, and Randy Duncan 1959 1st overall pick out of Iowa by Lombardi.

Packer QBs that have made the pro bowl:

Rodgers 10 times, Favre 9 times, Starr 4 times, Majkowski 1 time.

Based on the Packers 20 year history the odds of the Packers finding a 2 or more time Pro Bowl Receiver beneath round 1 is 2 out of 28 or 7.1%

And based on the same 20 year history, the probability of the Packers finding an EVEN one time Pro Bowl Receiver below round 2 is ZERO.

The Packers drafted 28 receivers between 2003 and 2022, only 2 of the 28 selected made multiple pro bowls and both of those were selected in the 2nd round, Jennings (2 pro bowls) and Davante (6 pro bowls) and Davante had much better catch %'s with Aaron throwing to him than Derek Carr. Jordy also made 1 pro bowl and Cobb 1 pro bowl. Aaron's made all Packer receivers look better.

The other 24 Receivers disappeared and you mostly have long forgotten them or not ever heard of them after draft day:

The Packers have drafted 28 WRs over the last 20 years:

Name of Player, round picked, overall pick#

1) Carl Ford 2003, 7, 255
2) DeAndrews Rubin 2003, 7, 256
3) Craig Bragg 2005, 6, 195
4) Terrence Murphy 2005, 2, 58
5) Greg Jennings 2006, 2, 52 (2 pro bowls)
6) Cory Rodgers 2006, 4, 194
7) Will Blackmon WR/CB 2006, 4, 115
8) James Jones 2007, 3, 78
9) David Clowney 2007, 5, 157
10) Jordy Nelson 2008, 2, 36 (1 pro bowl)
11) Brett Swain 2008, 7, 217
12) Randall Cobb 2011, 2, 64 (1 pro bowl)
13) Charles Johnson 2013, 7, 2016
14 Kevin Dorsey 2013, 7, 224
15) Davante Adams 2014, 2, 53 (6 pro bowls, 5 of those with the Packers)
16) Jared Abbbrederis 2014, 5, 176
17) Jeff Janis 2014, 7, 236
18) Ty Montgomery 2015, 3, 94
19) Trevor Davis 2016, 5, 165
20) DeAngelo Yancy 2017, 5, 175
21) Malachi Dupre 2017, 7, 247
22) J'Mon Moore 2018, 4, 133
23) Marquez Valdes-Scantling 2018, 5, 174
24) Equanimeous St. Brown 2018, 6, 207
25) Amari Rodgers 2021, 3, 85
26) Christian Watson 2022, 2, 34
27) Romeo Doubs 2022, 4, 132
28) Samori Toure 2022, 7, 258

Packer receivers drafted before 2003 that made the pro bowl:

James Lofton (1978, 1st round 6th pick) - 7 pro bowls w Packers and 1 with Bills
Sterling Sharpe (1984, 1st round, 7th pick) - 5 pro bowls
Donald Driver (1999, 7th round, 213th pick) - 3 pro bowls
Carroll Dale (1960, 8th round, 86th pick) - 3 pro bowls
Boyd Dowler (1959, 3rd round, 25th pick) - 2 pro bowls
John Jefferson (1978, 1st round, 14th pick) - 1 pro bowl w Packers and 3 with San Diego
Roell Preston (1995, 5th round, 145th pick) - 1 pro bowl for special teams
Javon Walker (2002, 1st round, 20th pick) - 1 pro bowl
Steve Odom (1974, 5th round, 116th pick) - 1 pro bowl for special teams
Antonio Freeman (1995, 3rd round, 90th pick) - 1 pro bowl
Bob Jeter CB and WR (1960, 2nd round, 17th pick) - 2 pro bowls for cornerback play

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Oppy's picture

April 15, 2023 at 11:04 am

You literally just copied and pasted a number of your old posts together into one megalithic PR piece for Rodgers?

Also, I now KNOW you're liking your own posts, because there's no way someone actually read your entire diatribe in the last 50 minutes. LOL.

We might have an actual paid commenter here, people. Amazing.

2 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

April 15, 2023 at 04:40 pm

Wait…you mean, not everyone here is getting paid??

1 points
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Pizzadoc's picture

April 15, 2023 at 05:07 pm

Agreed Oppy. What was that diatribe? Get a job.

0 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

April 15, 2023 at 10:35 am

Go DE/OLB in the first round. It is a top 3 position of need, and the class in this draft is exceptional. Hopefully we can get Lukas Van Ness of Iowa or Myles Murphy of Clemson at no. 15 (or trade up for them if necessary)

Day 2 DE/OLBs I really like are Felix Anudike-Uzomah of Kansas St, Derick Hall of Auburn, and Isaiah McGuire of Missouri. Adeboware of Northwestern is an interesting 4i prospect

The pass-catchers are deep, and aside from Jaxon Smith-Njigba (who will likely be gone by 15), I don't feel there is anyone who would make a huge difference over a day 2 guy. WRs Cedric Tillman and Jonathan Mingo and TEs Tucker Kraft and Sam LaPorta (who will need to improve his blocking).

If Darnell Washington fell to round 2 that would be amazing (I would trade up for him with pick 78)

2 points
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White92's picture

April 15, 2023 at 03:18 pm

I can't see why fans think Gkunt is some elite GM. As we know, drafting is only part of the job. I guess I never got over the drafting of a long snapper AND punter in the the same draft. Then to trade up to acquire a replacement QB and piss off your HoF QB was epic incompetence. Ryan Pace type stuff. I certainly hope Gkunt was smarter than all the other GMs and Love is the next Mahomes, but I'm not holding my breath. Regardless of whether he is or not, Gkunt wasted the final years of Rogers by not acquiring legit receiver help and multiplied the disaster with the albatross of a contract Rogers got last year.

The only bright spot in my opinion has been finding mid to low level free agents and have them outperform.

-4 points
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HawkPacker's picture

April 15, 2023 at 06:39 pm

Your wordage is terrible.

1 points
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White92's picture

April 15, 2023 at 08:45 pm

I guess I could have just said that I think the guy is well below average and left it at that.

-1 points
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jvole's picture

April 15, 2023 at 04:24 pm

So Gute is slightly below average...Seems about right, doesn't it? Josh Myers over Creed Humphrey will sting for awhile.

3 points
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HawkPacker's picture

April 15, 2023 at 06:39 pm

Yes, that is the one I can't get my arms around. Terrible pick.

4 points
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greengold's picture

April 16, 2023 at 07:03 am

Gutekunst made the mistake of stature over substance.

Staring at both Humphrey and Myers, he chose the taller, bigger player over better play resume of Humphrey.

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joejetson's picture

April 19, 2023 at 10:01 pm

Just an observation about Gute's drafting record- due to team success, GB generally drafts in the 20's, not Top 5 or 10 like perennial losers (i.e. Bears, Lions, Vikings). It's a lot easier to miss on a late 1st Round pick than a Top 10. That being said, GB has had their share of wasted picks.

0 points
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