Cory's Corner: Packers Are Still Building

 
The Packers aren't there yet. 
 
But the question is, who exactly are the Packers? Are the Packers a dominant team that can win the NFC or are they an inconsistent team that doesn't have a true identity?
 
Aaron Jones is Green Bay's offensive centerpeice, much to Aaron Rodgers' chagrin. However, he only tallied one target in a game that showcased how starved the Packers are for playmakers.
 
The 49ers destroyed the Packers 37-8 and it probably shouldv'e been worse than that. Green Bay converted one first down in 15 tries and Rodgers was hurried six times against a defensive front four that could have all of its members represented at the Pro Bowl. 
 
The one thing that was obvious was how much speed San Francisco had on the edges, on offense and defense. There was Deebo Samuel zipping 42 yards down the left sideline past the entire Green Bay secondary in the first half. Then there was George Kittle getting behind everyone for 61 yards in the second half. Then there was Nick Bosa to get around the edge for a sack and Arik Armstead leaving more offensive linemen in the dust for two more sacks. 
 
This wasn't a fair fight. The 49ers are a complete team. They have playmakers in key spots and coach Kyle Shanahan used those players properly. Packers coach Matt LaFleur knew that San Francisco's defensive line was arguably the best front four in football. The best way to beat heavy pressure is to use quick slants, swings and screens. However, the most dynamic pass catcher for the Packers never caught a pass. 
 
If anything, this loss forces the Packers to look themselves in the mirror. It forces them to be honest with themselves and it forces them to figure out who they are. Are the Packers willing to let the running game be the engine for the offense and can Rodgers get rid of the ball within three seconds to prevent potential devastating injury? 
 
Obviously, this loss isn't isn't detrimental because the Packers can realistically finish as a top two seed. But I wouldn't expect this team to make a deep playoff run simply because they are too slow. The NFL game has turned ino track meet and if you don't have the speed to keep up, you can forget a championship. 
 
If anything, this showed the road map for general manager Brian Gutekunst. He saw that Jimmy Garoppolo was carving up Green Bay's inside linebackers with precision passing and he saw that the offensive line has zero depth. 
 
The question is, where does Green Bay go from here? 

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Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn

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Comments (119)

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LambeauPlain's picture

November 26, 2019 at 06:52 am

Since the Denver game the Packers have fielded one of the worst defenses in the NFL. After a promising start, the Packers are again the soft defense they were last year bending to virtually every offense they face and are now breaking with increasing regularity. Pettine has 7 above average starters yet they play below average D.

I liked Pettine hired as DC...but he has a failing grade over the last two years.

And don’t get me started on Mennega. Whatever he is trying to sell his ST players, they aren’t buying. The return game is an embarrassment. The punter is regressing.

Now the O is being exposed...especially in the pass game.

Can these holes be filled? I fear not this year.

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Leatherhead's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:35 pm

[b]Since the Denver game the Packers have fielded one of the worst defenses in the NFL.[/b]

And we're 5-3 during that stretch. So we must have a pretty awesome offense, right?

So why are we scoring 8? Or 11? How is that Pettine's fault? Why are we blaming the defense and Martinez and King and Fackrell and for not being good enough?

Look at the big money veterans we have on offense: Rodgers. Adams. Graham. Bulaga, Bakhtiari, Linsely, Turner...….Where were they against SF? Against the Chargers?

Jones/Williams ran hard, but nobody else on offense did much to help the cause. Adams has been discussed. Graham caught a long pass deep o nly to let a much smaller guy knock it loose. Allison with a missed opportunity. You are never as good or as bad as you look, but IMO there is plenty enough talent on this offense to score more than 20 points on anybody. But we aren't, and I'd like to know why.

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mamasboy's picture

November 26, 2019 at 03:53 pm

The D probably played well enough to win if the offense had done their part. It can be tiring ( as well as frustrating ) to be on the field all game long. That game was a real blackeye opener.

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:22 pm

So...the offense was tired? They won TOP 35 minutes to 25.

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Boneman's picture

November 26, 2019 at 06:54 am

An identity comes from finding out what works and consistently finding ways to highlight those things. Unfortunately the Packers haven't found enough things that work on either side of the ball. On top of that they haven't been able to consistently use those few things that work. Some of that is on a rookie head coach who has huge potential but precious little experience. I think he'll get there. Defensively we have real issues with pass D and that is because teams have found the Packers kryptonite and relentlessly attack it. The Packers linebackers and unfortunately their rookie safety aren't good enough right now. There is hope Savage improves but it is what it is with Martinez and there is nobody else that can fill the role next to him. Offensively its all about number 12. AR needs to play better, period. I find myself screaming at the TV for him to throw the ball but he continues to maddeningly hold it and stare downfield. His ability to escape the pocket and create has evaporated. He has become so risk averse that it cripples the offense. Where are the throws into tight windows? One or two highlight throws a game aren't enough. Other QB's make their receivers better and keep their offenses moving with whoever plays (Brady, Brees). If the former MVP doesn't get back to playing like he and we expect, his huge contract will cripple this team for years.

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deerskinlake's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:59 am

Rogers selfishness and stubbornness is holding back this team. The Packers true offensive identity is what you saw in Dallas but Rogers wants all the glory.

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Packerpasty's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:53 am

well people bitch when he holds the ball because none of our UDFA's can't get open or they are pissed cuz he's throwing it away...not much he can do against really good teams as long as there are so many scrubs on the field...didnt anyone notice when the announcers would point out that "no one is open" and show it with a screen shot?? Are they b.s.ing us??? The team has very little talent..

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Razer's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:53 am

...because none of our UDFA's can't get open...

This is a bitter truth that fans don't want to recognize

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:45 pm

The bitter truth of double negatives.

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Leatherhead's picture

November 26, 2019 at 02:05 pm

I've seen Lazard and Kumerow make some amazing catches this season.

We can put 5 guys in the pattern: Adams, MSV, Graham, Jones/Williams. That's four, right there. Not a single UDFA.

The skill positions on this offense are plenty good enough to score more than 8 points. We should score 25 or more against anybody.

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Leatherhead's picture

November 26, 2019 at 02:05 pm

I've seen Lazard and Kumerow make some amazing catches this season.

We can put 5 guys in the pattern: Adams, MSV, Graham, Jones/Williams. That's four, right there. Not a single UDFA.

The skill positions on this offense are plenty good enough to score more than 8 points. We should score 25 or more against anybody.

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Leatherhead's picture

November 26, 2019 at 02:05 pm

I've seen Lazard and Kumerow make some amazing catches this season.

We can put 5 guys in the pattern: Adams, MSV, Graham, Jones/Williams. That's four, right there. Not a single UDFA.

The skill positions on this offense are plenty good enough to score more than 8 points. We should score 25 or more against anybody.

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Big_Mel_75's picture

November 26, 2019 at 10:43 am

Or the fact they there only two WR on the field. I really felt they would call up Jordy mid season yes he lost a step but still can get 10yds and catch the ball but I'm guessing Gute never would make that call on his mistake.

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:45 pm

LET JORDY GO, ALREADY!!!

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Minniman's picture

November 27, 2019 at 03:06 am

80 offensive snaps with 33 passes (leaving 41 runs and 6 punts).

I respectfully don't agree with you.

I think the issue is that the Packers are lacking the depth of offensive talent to attack the whole field with the passing game.

Look at these 2 passer charts:

Rodgers in the first one only made 5 throws of longer than 10 yards - with only 2 in the center third of the field.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/season/aaron-rodgers/ROD33929...

Jimmy G only took 1 deep shot (that converted for a TD to Kittle) and 9 of the 20 total were in the middle 1/3 of the field and inside 10 yards.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/season/jimmy-garoppolo/GAR363...

So it looks like the 49ers successfully attacked the ILBers successfully and Rodgers both followed MLF's game plan to continue to run the ball and also wasn't able to attack the middle of the field whilst he was bottled up in the pocket.

..... Maybe a dose of Jace Sternberger would help that?

....... Also, has anyone seen a back shoulder catch from a GB WR this year....... that's an Aaron Rodgers staple that the WR's should be finely tuned to..... and thats not on AR

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mamasboy's picture

November 26, 2019 at 04:09 pm

Rodgers reverted to the way he acted last year when things weren't going as planned. A couple of times when MLF and Rodgers were talking on the sidelines Rodgers wouldn't even look at MLF so he stepped in front of ARod so he would have look at him.Pro Football Focus had Rodgers as the lowest rated Packers player in the game ( not including special teams ). In a game where just about everyone looked awful, that's a real statement.

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Razer's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:47 am

While the rest of the league was going faster the Packers decided to go taller. Given that our QB isn't one to throw a lot of go-up-for-it contested balls and these receivers aren't separation types seems we missed the mark. So we go out and get a young, modern HC/playcaller who will use a lot of motion and TE sets to confuse the shit out of the opponent. Except, 10 games in and everyone is still playing Rodgers the same way. Teams are still playing our run game on their way to the QB and our O-line just isn't good enough to to win this game.

I look at New Orleans and WR/RB running open for quick strikes and wonder why we never see this with our Packer offense and super QB. Skill player talent is definitely lacking. Having a QB who primarily works the edges isn't helping the cause. Haven't seen any real, sustainable horespower from this offense and definitely haven't seen it against the better defenses.

The big question: Can it change this season?

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:01 am

I just want to know why is it that when Adams is playing the offense looks out of sync and dysfunctional. When Adams was out the offense looked smooth running, big plays were happening and they were putting up a lot of points. Why can't they have that type of offense with Adams?

For me it either comes down to 2 things. Either its the game plan/play calling where they are trying to force more throws to Adams or its Rodgers looking for Adams only.
Regardless the offense needs to change. It has to find ways to get the ball in Jones hands. Since Adams has returned Jones has 1 reception for -1 yards.

The truth is the season isn't over as many felt after the 49ers game. Packers may not be able to get the #1 seed but they can get to the number 2 or 3 seed. Currently they would be the #3 seed. There are 5 games left. They control their destiny in the North. All they have to do is finish even with the Vikings and they will have won the North. Now is the time to get the offense figured out, and get the defense help from the offense. Now is the time to get going!

Now is the time to get the offense rolling. They just got beat and did nothing offensively against the number 1 defense in yards and #2 in points allowed.
The next 2 games are get it right games because they are going against the #27 and #22 ranked defenses in yards per game along with the #29 and #23 ranked defenses in scoring. Now is the time to really figure things out offensively.

Get Jones the ball more. Get the TE's more involved. Get other WR's more involved. Find ways to spread the ball around, use more formations and create different looks. Use more motion and uptempo. That is my thinking for the offense to improve it.

This year is so much better then the last 2 years. We can actually talk about playoff football again.

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deerskinlake's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:57 am

Adams is not a smart football player. As a matter fact, the packers are missing smart players on both sides of the ball

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:27 pm

Clearly the Packers don't have smart fans either.

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:55 pm

"Adams is not a smart football player"

Where does this come from? I admit, Adams likely should not have responded to the business he was getting from the 9ers defender, but it was a twitchy call from the ref, too.

If you re-watch the SNF game, watch how SF's players are constantly playing through the whistle, taking jabs at players on the ground, throwing that one extra shove after the runner goes by, taking a poke at a player out of bounds, putting a forearm into the helmet after the whistle on the ground...all done where the ref is out of sight, of course, but on camera. Physical team pushing the edge of dirty and legal.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 26, 2019 at 01:36 pm

Adams did nothing wrong. if they called that there should have been at least a dozen penalties against the 49ers in that game. It was a joke of a penalty.

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deerskinlake's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:03 am

Your insight may have been true for the first third of the season but the Packers ineptness has reared its ugly head since then with their unintelligent play stupid mistakes and Rogers reverting back to his selfish play.
And in the meantime special teams are a disaster and our defense has been figured out by the opposition.
Our coach and his staff are taking notes this year and there will be a lot of players hitting the road at the end of the season.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:28 pm

"Rogers"

You do know his name is RODGERS right?

Special teams have been terrible. I expect a lot of special teams changes in the offseason.

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:50 pm

Maybe he's talking about thesauruses...

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Gort's picture

November 26, 2019 at 06:11 pm

I thought that the thesauruses were killed by a motaur?

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Leatherhead's picture

November 26, 2019 at 02:24 pm

Expect what you want, but you're still working with minimum wage rookies and UDFAs.

I think the better overall strategy is to do what you can to minimize the opportunities that Special Teams has to hurt you. Watch for fakes, fair catch, no fumbles or penalties. Pint less. Go for it more.

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 02:33 pm

I'm all in favor of more pints!

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Packerpasty's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:04 am

my bet is they "eek" out two wins not in an impressive fashion...a good defense shuts the Pack offense down easily because there isn't much there...one good receiver, no TE, and a good running game, which may not work so great now that the "O" line is banged up...stop the run, stop Adams Packers spin their wheels...

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:29 pm

Or maybe they blow out the next 2 games and fans will be wondering where this was at against the 49ers?

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Timeout's picture

November 26, 2019 at 04:08 pm

Teams with bend but don't break defenses never get blowouts. They always let the other team hang around.

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Cubbygold's picture

November 26, 2019 at 11:13 am

After the LAC game there was lots of talk about preparation. The loss wasn't because the Chargers were good, it was GB's poor individual responsibility. Or so the narrative went...

Maybe the team responded poorly to that loss by not actually realizing that they got beat. That won't be the case this time. Maybe it inspires real change in the gameplan.

Not only Jones, but while Adams was out it seemed like Lewis was bringing a different dynamic as well. Jones/Williams/Graham/Lewis was a winning formula. Not sure how Adams ruins that, but it has somehow.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:33 pm

Packers played poorly in the Chargers game. Ingram and Bosa really ruined the offense that day.

I will also add that Vitale made plays. Sternberger was getting a lot more playing time. They were using Williams and Jones together a lot more. Lazard was being used a lot more. The ball was being spread around.
I don't know if its Rodgers keying in on Adams, or if its the play calling designed to get the ball to Adams. I don't know what is going on.

I just know that Jones has not been targeted nearly enough since Adams has been back.

I think the coaches will get it figured out.

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ALLGASNOBRAKES's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:05 am

In 2 of the last 3 games, this ENTIRE coaching staff has been THOROUGHLY outcoached. They couldn't make an adjustment in those games in Cali if their lives depended on it or it certainly looked like that. As unpopular as this may be, this is EXACTLY what concerned me most when the Packers hired MLF in the first place.

I was one of those few Packers fans who wanted Josh McDaniels as the next HC. I mean common on, an Offensive Coordinator for 12 years, MULTIPLE SB's, the ability to create offense with ANYONE, and Top 5 offenses...VS...MLF with ONE season as OC in Los Angeles but he didn't call plays and ONE season as OC in Tennessee for a less than stellar offense.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not bailing on MLF, far from it. I happen to think he'll be a hell of a head coach. BUT 2 times in 3 weeks I've watched the Packers get the crap kicked out of them for 60 minutes. Not for a half or a quarter...A FULL 60 MINUTES. I really thought the Chargers game was a fluke. The team was BOUND to have a game like this right? But now it's happened for a 2nd time in 3 weeks and this time AFTER a bye week. NO adjustments to what was happening. NO rally even after the game was in hand for the 49ers to at least make the score look closer than the game was...Nothing, Nado, ZERO!

These next 5 weeks will tell me a lot about MLF and the rest of his staff. These next 5 weeks are the REAL test for MLF.

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Razer's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:55 am

Yeah, you lost me at Josh McDaniels. That standup guy who left the Colts at the alter. No wait, the guy who shit the bed out in Denver.

I do agree that the coaching staff seems to be in over their heads. Coming off a bye, having completed a self-scout and this is what you show the world. The disaster on Special teams is particularly troubling. Beyond that, we are not showing enough cohesion on a lot of fronts and this eventually comes back to the coaching staff.

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Packerpasty's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:01 am

well, he did look like he was going to cry at one point...shows emotion anyway..

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ALLGASNOBRAKES's picture

November 27, 2019 at 03:19 am

"That standup guy who left the Colts at the alter. No wait, the guy who shit the bed out in Denver."

I get that Razer, I really do. He was WAAAY to young for the job in Denver. Being the HC AND the man making the decisions on personnel was absolutely nuts. He was 33 years old IIRC at the time and in NO WAY ready for BOTH jobs. I can't defend what he did to Indy either, not in the least BUT I could make 17 arguments why he was the BETTER choice over MLF. The top argument being a PROVEN OC and EXPERIENCE.

BUT for the last few weeks, MLF looked EXACTLY like the guy at his press conference while being introduced as the next Packers HC...lost, scared shitless, and the WTF am I doing here look while taking the podium. The coach I might add who was hired by Murphy, NOT Gute. I also give MLF a pass (sort of) on his ST coach since Russ Ball did what he's done to numerous others in his time in GB...LOWBALLED the hell out of the one MLF and Gute REALLY WANTED (Rizzo). So much so even when Ball finally upped the ante Rizzon probably patted himself on the ass and told Ball to kiss it. Things like that don't go unnoticed by other coaches around the NFL. Between running out of time to find a ST coach with NFL experience who wasn't already hired and lowballing Rizzo the Packers end up with a guy from Vanderbilt who's ST units were ranked in the BOTTOM of the NCAA rankings.

My hope for a real SB run was 2020 and it still is. I actually do like MLF and I think no matter what happens moving forward this season, LaFleur has done more than enough to attract some better coaches to join his staff next season. I also think this season win, lose, or draw will be HUGE in the growth of Matt LaFleur.

HOPEFULLY, Gute can be creative enough to be able to get a FA or two in GB (AJ Green anyone) this next April and have another solid draft with at least one WR draft HIGH and an ILB.

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deerskinlake's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:05 am

Not going to be pretty. Packers still need to be rebuilt.

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Packerpasty's picture

November 26, 2019 at 05:01 pm

who's winning this year?? Yup, the old school established coaches...those Rams really looking sharp hey...Niners coach is old school like his dad, pound the ball play great defense...of course nice to build a team when you suck for three years or so like the niners did...Packers finally get a high draft choice and they blow it with Rashan Gary...good grief no wonder most scouts were shaking their heads when that pick came up...

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Michael Hughes's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:07 am

Draft DL
Draft LB
Draft CB
Draft safety
Receiver isn't a priority position in the NFL
Don't need a RT because Bulagas knee will hold up.

The problem isn't we have prioritised height at receiver. The problem is we have prioritised everything above receiver. Seriously what did people think was going to happen to the passing game when you don't draft a skill player in the first three rounds in 5 years or whatever.

Sure defences win championships but don't expect big numbers from your QB when your number two receiver was undrafted and cut by tow teams including packers before being promoted through roster churn. And I like lazard by the way.

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Michael Hughes's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:15 am

Agree on pettine.

But it's hard to be critical of the offensive side coaching wise when you use all of your best picks every year on defence.

The attitude has been by most people that because we have Rodgers we can shove anyone out there on offence and still have an elite offence. Which is dumb.

It's going to get much worse because the offence is very old as a result of the drafting strategy. Most of it is going to need replacing sooner or later. So more undrafted jags I presume.

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Razer's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:58 am

...But it's hard to be critical of the offensive side coaching wise when you use all of your best picks every year on defence...

I think you meant to say "when you miss on all your top picks on defense." We have missed on more corners and Dlinemen over the last decade that it is shameful. Not enough talent to be top on either side of the ball.

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Gort's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:11 pm

DING DING DING
Winner winner chicken dinner.

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Lare's picture

November 26, 2019 at 06:03 pm

I think we're seeing why Pettine has been fired from every previous coaching job he has ever had.

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:27 pm

That's patently untrue.

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ALLGASNOBRAKES's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:42 pm

LOL...What game have you been watching the last few years as defenses become nmore and more crippled by rules. THIS team NEED'S at least TWO more Wide Receivers.

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Tundraboy's picture

November 26, 2019 at 10:58 am

Spot on. Start using your weapons and get some real ILBs. And some nasty OL And while we're at it, reacquaint Rodgers with the middle of the field and the slant play!

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Packerpasty's picture

November 26, 2019 at 05:02 pm

first you have to have someone who actually can run a route in the middle of the field!!! Shoulda woulda coulda kept Cobb...our slugs at WR and TE are covered like blankets in the middle of the field...Rodgers can't do magic..

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jannes bjornson's picture

November 27, 2019 at 03:04 am

They can't handle the truth.

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alinger84's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:33 am

I found this on SBNATION:

The Packers have a single good win this season, and that’s the Vikings all the way back in Week 2. They’ve beaten the average Cowboys, Raiders, and the Chiefs without Patrick Mahomes. I’m not buying this team. I think the Vikings win the division.

and this:

Green Bay Packers - Somehow, this team is still in the running for the top overall seed in the NFC and it makes absolutely no sense.

Maybe there's some truth in it...

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deerskinlake's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:07 am

Maybe? Actually it has been obvious. This is not a playoff team.

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Packerpasty's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:05 am

true stuff Deer...and we will soon see that...still building, a long way to go...

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:55 pm

It IS a playoff team. This team will make the playoffs.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:46 am

11 games into the season and 5 regular season games to go the Packers already have 2 more victories than all of last year. The Packers are in first place in the North with the tie breaker against MN. The Packers have a legitimate opportunity to make the playoffs and for the first time in several years us fans are excited about Packer football.

Is this a great Packers team....no! Are they improved yes! Do they still need more quality players yes. Are they as good of a team as the Vikings unfortunately I believe the Vikings have a stronger team this year.
The Packers desperately need a couple more OL, an interior DL to stop the run, and a ILB (wish they would try Summers). Unfortunately the Packers IMO have made two significant personnel mistakes this year. Placing their 2nd best WR in ESB on IR, however it did allow the Pack to eventually keep Lazard. The 2nd personnel mistake is not playing Tonyan over Graham. Tonyan has been hurt but I sincerely hope ML recognizes the neet for more speed and athletism at this position. Graham has sorely hurt this team with his plodding speed and poor hands.

This has already been a successful season for the Pack IMO and they may still surprise yet, but I believe next year with good off season player acquisition they will be a stronger team. Let's fortify both sides of the line and get a talented ILB and WR.

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deerskinlake's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:10 am

Nice to be optimistic but in reality the packers are nowhere near Teams like the Saints, the Niners, ravens, even Chargers and the Vikings. We are still a very slow team lacking middle linebackers and a good offense of line. Special teams are embarrassing.

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Tundraboy's picture

November 26, 2019 at 10:05 am

I recall the same article I think that they were summed up as Frauds.

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 10:30 am

"This has already been a successful season for the Pack IMO and they may still surprise yet, but I believe next year with good off season player acquisition they will be a stronger team. Let's fortify both sides of the line and get a talented ILB and WR."

Herein lies the problem: I don't think BG ever had any intention of investing more in the 2019 Packers after the end of camp. He's rolling $$ into next year's cap so he can sign his own and hold the nucleus of this team together...meaning he's relying on the maturation of the 2017-2019 draft classes to be the cavalry for this team. There might be enough room under the cap to sign a couple role-playing FAs this off-season, but probably not enough to make a splash without letting key players go...and that's even if they cut Graham and Taylor.

Being caught looking ahead is wasting a prime opportunity for this team. They're mostly healthy, they have good positioning in division and in conference to make a run, and have a favorable late-season schedule. Those are all things they can't count on for 2020. They needed to be nimble enough in their approach to seize this opportunity at the deadline to find an insidel defender (another DL or ILB) and a complementary skill position player for #17...preferably someone who can run and get open. I think those two players would have made a huge difference on this team going forward. Instead, even with the late bye and teams cutting viable NFL players, the Packers did nothing.

So, like BG, I'm crossing my fingers for 2020...

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scullyitsme's picture

November 26, 2019 at 11:56 am

I definitely agree dobber. We have a bad receiving core. Usually every year you have that one player your rooting for, a feel good story, I drafted free agent, practice squad player etc. you want maybe one or two of those on your team. We have 4 just in the receivers room. Blake for whatever reason just isn’t getting it done and neither are any of the d line not named Kenny Clark. I wonder if gute didn’t make a trade this year not because there wasn’t a deal to be made but that he still thinks we are a year away.

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:59 pm

"We have a bad receiving core. "

Remember when we were arguing about how they could keep 7 or even 8 of these guys coming out of camp?

IMO, only Lazard and Adams have made an argument for the 2020 roster so far. It makes one wistfully wonder if ESB might have been the missing piece...

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blacke00's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:48 am

IMHO the problem lies squarely on the GMs and the the scouting department.

Our GMs have failed miserably in evaluating talent particularly the defensive backfield. So much draft capital has been expended on that area of the team at the expense of other areas, i.e. DL, WR, ILB and above all OL.

the people in the scouting department can't identify talent. Look at how many failures there are in drafting talent over the past few years both Thompson and Gutekunst! We had draft classes that have become complete busts!

Look at this past year 2019. #1 pick Gary...almost no impact..let me correst that no impact! Why? I don't know, why would you draft this guy? People on draft boards were right he's a real under performer and they were right. How can amateur draft nicks out think a NFL scouting dept.? Shameful! I'll give them one excuse...Gary has a bum shoulder and that maybe hampering him? If that's the case why the hell did you draft him if he's damaged good1

Other than your other 1st and 2nd round draft choices, is anyone contributing? 2018 draft...One ...Alexander! Where are the rest?

Way to many FAs on this this team!

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murf7777's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:50 am

I’ve been saying this for awhile now and I know I’ll get many who disagree, but Pettine isn’t the answer for our D. We have better players then what they show. I believe LaFleur will move on without him and Mennigan ST coach. I hope these two coaches prove me wrong over the rest of the season.

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RedRight49's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:12 am

The Packers have a lot more re- building to do in the coming off-season than I imagined just a few weeks ago.

Where to start the re-building - WRs, TEs, O-Line, ILBs and, open that big corporate wallet and bring in assistant coaches who can coach
their guys to contribute yardage, field position, create occasional turn overs and, those things called points.

Lets' just say, Special Teams comes to mind!

This is a good overall Packers team capable of a playoff berth but is several players away from being a dominant team.

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:57 pm

A playoff berth is all but assured assuming they don't completely fall off the cliff. The Packers will be favored in 4 of their last 5 games. They SHOULD win at least 3...11-6 will get them in. Maybe not the division, but they'll be a playoff team.

In edit: Sorry, 11-5. Some days math is hard...

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Guam's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:15 am

This has been bothering me for a few weeks now. Our interior run defense is porous in no small part due to poor D-line play (yes, Martinez is also part of the problem, but the D-line is not keeping him clean). The Smiths and Fackrell have been playing well at OLB. I know we drafted Gary as an OLB, but realistically how many OLB snaps is he going to get over the next few years? He is supposedly an above average run defender and played D-line in college. So why aren't we giving him the chance to play regularly on the D-line. He can't do much worse than Lowery/Lancaster/Adams and with some experience may be much better. What am I missing?

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Guam's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:17 am

Sorry, double post.

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Packerpasty's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:07 am

Gary was a really big reach, hindsight, a WR would have been nice, or almost anyone else...

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Timeout's picture

November 26, 2019 at 04:15 pm

Signing Lowry to an extension made no sense to me.

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stockholder's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:16 am

!. The problem is we cannot BURN the blitz. The speed rushers. The offense is forced to defend then attack. Arron Rodgers will continue to cough up the ball from the pressure. 2. The Defense= Stop the TE. The secondary has become inconsistent. Bring back the 4-3-4. Move Gary to DE. Stop the bend but don't break. It isn't working. Players are Confused. And if players are confused, You must point at the coach!

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Handsback's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:46 am

The Rams were in the SB last year and they were handed one of the worst defeats for the year. Are the Rams void of talent? Are the Ravens the most talented team in the league? Is there a coaching change happening in LA because of this defeat? Will teams start going after the Ravens coordinators?
The NFL is like a tidal pool...the tide comes in and goes out. The coaches are responsible to make sure they can change or modify their play when the tide is in and change again when it goes out. Right now, the Ravens are the best team in football. Some coach will make a change and beat them. Does that mean he's the next rock star in coaching? No, it means he took a gamble and changed the way to play against the Ravens.
Green Bay right now has the tide out. It doesn't appear that the coaches have figured out how to coach the Packers against fast aggressive teams. They will, just don't know how long it will take to figure it out. I suspect, not sure but suspect, that Savage isn't playing the same way he was earlier in the year because of injury. Everyone wants to pile on Martinez for the TE catching the ball across the middle, but for most teams the safety is the one that is responsible for that coverage. Between the TE/lack of deep coverage Green Bay has a safety issue...again.
On the offense, without throwing Rodgers under the bus, the game plan has to protect him from doing his obsessive Adams targeting. Make a team stop your short passes to the backs and running game. The oline will need to work better as a unit and the wideouts need to make a play when it goes to them.
Special teams are not special or even average, they are bad. This is an area where the tide will stay out until another guy takes over.

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Tundraboy's picture

November 26, 2019 at 11:07 am

Good point about the safety.but we shouldn't have to depend and count on the safety all the time, because the inside linebackers not doing his job, before the TE gets behind everyone.

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albert999's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:57 am

So sick and tired of every coach say we have to coach better and do a better job
Then start doing my god and that’s means change how your coaching and put players in other new positions and use a 4 3 4
Because your coaching better isnt working

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 01:23 pm

When did Yoda get an account here?

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Since'61's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:50 pm

Cookie!!! Thanks, Since '61

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Packerpasty's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:58 am

When your not in the top half in either defensive or offensive stats in the whole NFL, that tells that your team isn't there yet...Packers win a bunch of close games but when someone like the niners come around it aint pretty...UDFA's struggling to get open, sad...the blueprint is there to stop the Packers dead in their tracks, any team with the talent can do it...stop the run, double Adams and what else is there...no TE, no #2 or 3 WR...MVS and Gmo have regressed...so...once again..blame it on Rodgers..."he holds the ball" "he dumps it off too often" "he scowls"...haha...get over it, the team aint there yet...really, not even close...head coach still learning the ropes, the Patriots can get away with some lesser talent because of a wise old coach, Green Bay, not so much....

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Packerpasty's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:59 am

jeez, I forgot to mention our new special teams coach and how great he's turned things around!!!!

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Spock's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:58 am

Disagree with those who have said that Gute has gone taller, not faster. He's done both. Gute emphasizes team speed in his player selection. I agree we are still rebuilding and, frankly, have done much better this year than many expected. Now the flaws are showing and the increased expectations that winning creates is now showing up in increased disappointment when the team lets us down. This team despite it's warts is way better than last year. The SF game shows how much farther we need to go. Don't forget the 49ers had 8 or so years of bad play resulting in high draft picks to get where they are now. I still have hope for this team this year but they will need a lot of bounces of the football and ref calls going their way. No one is talking about the Jimmy Graham catch that was ruled a non-catch in this game. I said to my wife it was a catch and Pierra said if MLF challenges it it would have been reversed. Maybe (maybe) that would of resulted in a better game for us fans. Regardless I still love this team and hope for improvement going forward. Firing the special teams coach NOW would be a good start. -9 for punt return average?! C'mon, man.

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Cubbygold's picture

November 26, 2019 at 11:08 am

Completely agree. The frustration by fans right now is that people believed this was really a 7-1 team with a real shot at a SB. This isn't a bad team and gute/MLF aren't bad at their jobs. This team is better than they were last year, but still need a lot of work.

People seem to think winning a SB is as easy as just making a few smart decisions. No, you need things to break your way significantly. You need Gary to come out and get 8 sacks. You need Rodgers to play like the best player in the game because he's paid to do that. You need a WR2 to emerge. GB hit on Savage and Jenkins last year which is awesome. Gary, Sternberger, Keke, Hollman, Williams, Summers... not so much. You need more progress than that to do something significant like win a SB. Maybe next year.

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johngalt's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:03 am

I thought last weeks the “Packers Championship Run Starts Now” article was outta touch with reality. This team ain’t there yet.

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porupack's picture

November 26, 2019 at 01:51 pm

Me too. Also all the Rodgers MVP chatter.

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pacman's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:07 am

All those that said 'just burn the tape' after the Chargers game - I hope you are happy now.

This situation falls squarely on MLF. We might not have the best O line or ILB's or WR's. But if you can't call and hit a quick slant to keep the LBs back to loosen up the run game, then something is seriously wrong with your game plan. 49ers were playing press football and the Packers haven't shown they could beat that at all this year (or for last few years for that matter). And as SO many others have pointed out, not passing the Jones borders on idiocy warranting a call from the front office.

That being said, our O line hasn't been able to push against a good D line for many years now. They might generally suffice to protect AR and open a hole for Jones to slash through. But straight up pushing - forget it.

I'm wondering if a young MLF has the guts to make people accountable. Time to fire somebody. ST coach comes to mind. How much worse can we do?

Murphy is probably saying we have to give MLF time. How many years too long did he say that with MM? So you can't fire MLF with an 8-3 record with admittedly some glaring weaknesses at ILB and WR. But these losses were SO embarrassing that some sort of management intervention is warranted.

No, I don't feel better now. This was just too much.

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nostradanus's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:12 am

If the Packers wouldn’t have blown so many draft picks on the Defensive side they would have bee able to draft offensive playmakers.
Let’s hope Gutey can get some guys in the 2020 draft including someone who can return kicks please.

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Razer's picture

November 26, 2019 at 11:32 am

Simple truth - hard pill to swallow.

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Booner's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:13 am

I agree Gute and Thompson have had poor drafts. We can't continue to swing and miss with your top picks. This has really hurt the Packers. Thompson was really bad with his last few draft classes! I think they need to make some changes with their NFL Scout's because they are not getting the job done! I also agree that MLF needs to move on form Pettine and his special teams coach!

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Razer's picture

November 26, 2019 at 11:41 am

I agree with the first part of your assessment. Way too many draft pick misses. The number of Packer first and second rounders who are not even playing in the NFL is embarrassing. Glad that Ted stepped aside and a bunch of scouts jumped the ship. A fresh start was needed.

Disagree that we should get rid of Pettine. He is starting two complete jags on the D-line, not much at ILB and a secondary that still fights to put talent on the field. We are getting the kind of returns on defense that our talent warrants - unfortunately.

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Packers2020's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:30 am

If this game does not prove to fans that Martinez is not the guy, I don't know what will. He cannot cover. At all. And Campbell was better against the run on Sunday night. He is not even worth 5M. Let him walk.

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flackcatcher's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:43 am

Well if the Packers had a replacement for Martinez he be playing. They don't, and that's that. If Greene were still active then maybe both him and Campbell, it seems that's were Pettine was heading early on till Greene's injury. Hope Martinez hand get better..

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flackcatcher's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:35 am

Packers are at least one draft, most likely two away from being a team that can compete in all three phases of the game. Overall, I can not complain about the performance of this team. They have exceeded with what amounts to one intact unit with no depth, one injured unit with very limited depth, and well, to be honest a scrub unit. Good news is this team has been injury free for most of this season, so most of their core and starters play. (A rare event for this Packer team. ) All in all, I think the coaching staff has done a good job despite the war and tear a pro football season takes. Most of the glaring issues are out there, how the GM and his personal department address them will have to wait until after the season. This season the issues on the offensive side with Rodgers are raising their ugly head again in the second half. Also, MLF may be forced to cut out or down the RPO to get the run game going again. If he does that, will Rodgers accept that the run must come first to have any chance for the pass game. On defense, the D line is not the problem, it is the breakdown in secondary coverage. Nothing more than brain farts by mostly our boundary corners, just a bad three weeks. But both of them have to clean and tighten their mental game up for this final playoff drive, there are no replacements for either of them. Still, this Packer team with a little luck and renewed discipline could make a very deep run into the playoffs. We'll see how it goes....

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jimtalkbox's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:41 am

I share that sentiment of "this is a team that's still building". I'm grateful that this team is on the winning end of things most of the time this season, but a deep playoff run or a Super Bowl appearance is probably jumping the gun a little.

Gutey, Lafleur and Rodgers need to TCB this next offseason and maybe then we can start talking about legit Super Bowl aspirations.

Lafleur is going to learn A LOT during these 16 games and it's going to carry over into next year. Gutey is going to have to address some OL, WR, TE, DL and LB concerns. Rodgers will have a year in the new system under his belt.

This is only the beginning!

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Since'61's picture

November 26, 2019 at 11:29 am

Looking at the 49ers game the first issue with that game is that the OL was physically beaten on every play. No offense can play successfully when their OL is beaten as soundly as the Packer's OL was beaten during that game. The question is why did it happen?
Two reasons, 1. The 49ers DL got off the ball faster than our OL, they bring a ton of speed off the edge and 2. their DLs are better than our interior OLs. Linsley was beaten all night. Jenkins did not have a very good game either.

Another point the 49ers defense knows how to tackle. The Packers had very few yards after the catch or after the initial hit. The 49ers ILBs actually participate in their defense and make plays. The 49ers were able to get pressure by rushing 4 leaving 7 defenders in coverage. This left Rodgers with no one open and when he threw underneath his receivers were tackled immediately. The running game was stuffed. Any yardage gained by Jones was almost completely on his own.

After Adams our WRs are ineffective. Allison dropped a perfect pass over the middle for a 1st down and when he caught a pass in the flat he cannot run away from anyone. MVS is a # 5 or 6 receiver at best. Our TEs are non-existent. Just look at Kittle on the 49ers and the difference is obvious to a blind man.

Our defense needs help on the DL after Clark. We don't have ILBs. Again compare with the 49ers ILBs to see what good NFL level ILBs look like. Our secondary is still very young especially at CB. As I've been saying for most of the season our tackling needs to improve at every level of the defense. As for Pettine, since he has been DC our defense has given up an average of 23.7 points per game. This season the defense is giving up 22 points per game. Not terrible but not good enough to win against good offensive teams like the 49ers unless we expect Rodgers and the offense to score 40+ points per game. That's not happening with our current skill players.

Special Teams what are they?? On to the Giants. Thanks, Since '61

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 10:36 am

The 9ers did exactly what the Chargers did and what the Chiefs did for a half: they overwhelmed the Packers at the LOS. They know the Packers WR can't get off the ball, making it hard for ARod to unload the ball quickly. The Chiefs were bad enough in coverage that they couldn't make it work more than a half. Not true of the Chargers and 9ers. Use the word 'blueprint' if you want, but you can bet that the Packers are going to see this week-in and week-out for the next 5 weeks.

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Since'61's picture

November 26, 2019 at 11:26 am

Dobber, fortunately you remain part of the decreasing minority of posters here who actually knows what they are watching. Except for Adams our WRs are, as I posted above, ineffective, starting with their inability to get off the LOS. Why does Rodgers hold the ball too long? Because his receivers can't find their way past the LOS. When they do they can't get separation, and when they do make a catch they are tackled immediately or they drop the ball.

Against SF it was not all on the receivers. The OL was completely manhandled throughout the game. But when you combine the poor OL play with WRs and TEs who can't play the QB has no where to go and he looks bad as a result.

Again, why does this happen? After Adams we have poor quality, limited talent WRs and TEs, plus we have poor preparation by our coaches. With a bye week to prepare our coaching staff should be working on technique to help our WRs get off the LOS and our OC and HC should be working on a game plan designed to defeat the SF defense and help our receivers get open. Neither was apparent in our game plan Sunday evening. In fact it looked the coaching staff did not come up with anything different for the 49ers game. And even after getting beat down in the first half it didn't look like any adjustments were made for the second half.

The 49ers had an answer for everything. The Packers were out played physically, including the WRs at the LOS, which is the result of poor preparation which is the result of poor coaching, especially coming off of a bye week. I had hoped that MLF learned that lesson after the Chargers game. Apparently not.

It would not have surprised anyone for the Packers to lose to the 49ers especially on the road but I don't think that any of us expected them to lose so badly, especially coming off of a bye week. They still looked like a team in desperate need of a bye. Thanks, Since '61

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:26 pm

The OL was manhandled a lot. The WR's were not good. The QB was not good. The combination of the 3 really hurt them throughout the game. Each made a bad decision or bad drop or got blown up way to much. The offense never got into a rhythm, and the coaches didn't really do anything to get them into a rhythm.

First drive Jones gains 5 yards on 1st down. 2nd down Adams gains 10 yards to the 40 yard line). But then got the penalty which sent it back 15 yards. They did nothing after the penalty and then Rodgers can't fumble the ball. Take the sack ok, but he has to hold onto the ball.

Second drive Allison Drops a pass on 3rd and 4 which would have been a first down.

Third drive Williams drops a screen pass on 3rd and 9 and had he caught it he may have gotten a first down.

Fourth drive they would have had 3rd and 1 but a penalty on Allison sent them back to make it 2nd and 16 which killed them.

Fifth drive they were moving the ball. They got to the 4th and 1 play and chose to run up the gut after a timeout. They were down 10-0 at this point. IMO they should have kicked the FG. But going for it they need to do something other then running up the gut against that front.

Sixth drive they didn't do much but had the deep throw to Graham which Graham needs to find a way to hang onto that ball, But also should have probably been ruled a catch. (it is still 10-0 at this point).
-After this drive the 49ers start moving the ball more and take over the game.

We can sit and talk about how bad they were (and they were), but there were real opportunities in this game when they were still in the game and they didn't seize them. Had Allison and Williams not dropped 2- 3rd down passes who knows what happens. Maybe they get into a rhythm. If Adams isn't called for the penalty who knows what happens on that first drive. If Graham has a reception on that deep ball, who knows what happens on that drive. This game could have been completely different.

I'm really looking forward to Sunday to see what happens now.

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 01:21 pm

Simply put: a lot of things need to go wrong for a team to look as bad as the Packers did for 60 minutes.

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Since'61's picture

November 26, 2019 at 09:10 pm

RC the call on Adams was a ticky tack call. I agree that Adams should walk away but the call was really unnecessary. As for Rodgers fumble I can't blame a guy who is being hit by 3 guys, 2 of whom are trying to rip the ball out of his hands. Rodgers is usually excellent with ball security. If we want to keep Rodgers from fumbling the ball let's not get totally dominated at the LOS. Allison's drop is a perfect example of how poor the receiving corps is. Cobb makes that catch every time. Then Allison wipes out a nice run with a penalty although that was a poor call by the officials as well.

I would have kicked the FG and made the score 10-3. First off we're playing on the road and their killing us at the LOS. Second kick the FG and play the game. You don't know what is going to happen. Make it 10-3, keep it a one score game and maybe the defense makes a play on the next SF possession. However, if we're going to go for it can't we run a better play than straight ahead with no lead blocker. Where's Vitale? Something different against a DL that is killing our OL. How about a rollout with Rodgers having the option to throw or run for it?

If Graham's play is ruled a catch should it be a fumble since he lost the ball on the play? MLF could have challenged but didn't so we'll never know. Bottom line too many mistakes and too much bad play to make up for. We got clobbered. Better to move on and get it corrected for this week's game. Thanks, Since '61

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jannes bjornson's picture

November 27, 2019 at 03:25 am

Lindsley is just getting mauled by the bullrush and his footwork is way off. When Turner moves help to the center, the LBs blitz the vacated gap and Rodgers life is in peril. A variation of the Zimmer blitz,but it has happened 4-5 times this season. Two back sets with a fullback capable of laying the hurt on LBs or DEs is in order.

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Since'61's picture

November 27, 2019 at 08:07 am

Agree that Linsley was bad against SF, but the Packers were clearly not prepared for the SF blitzes. That is on the OL coach, the OC and MLF. The Packers should have answers for the blitzes especially coming off of a bye week. 2 back sets would help but then you WRs who can off the LOS to receive a quick pass in the space vacated by the blitzing LB. Besides Adams that's just not happening. Thanks, Since '61

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Tarynfor12's picture

November 26, 2019 at 10:41 am

The Packers are building but SF and close win over Carolina and a previous ass kicking by the Chargers makes it clear that the lego blocks being used to build this team have few lockable pieces.

I was unusually full of myself in another article recently and the SF game showed me this team was the benefactor of opponents bad play more than the assumed play of the Packers.

This team showed no intent for anything positive and it also showed our over all talent is severely lacking or the coaching staff has reached it's ceiling.

The game has passed GB bye again as shown by our offensive bed shitting and the defense that still pisses their pants less a play here and there.

I had optimism for this team and expected a solid 10 win season. we should get those 10 wins but failure to win 10 is not that far fetched now, since it's apparent we have NO IDEA what will come each game.

For me it's back to being grounded in reality 100% and my fleeting appearance in optimism land and having some blind optimism being allowed to dictate earlier before the Charger game has come to bite me in the ass.

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Cubbygold's picture

November 26, 2019 at 10:58 am

Per Yahoo! Sports...

What do the Packers do at an elite level? Even if we want to believe Rodgers is still a top quarterback, the lack of weapons in the passing game makes him less dangerous. Nobody other than Davante Adams scares anyone. The Packers were 14th in points scored and 21st in yards gained before Sunday night’s game. They were 15th in points allowed and 28th in yards allowed. Their special teams are average at best; they somehow have minus-11 punt-return yards this season. Perhaps the best thing to be said about the Packers is they don’t turn the ball over. Their eight turnovers are tied for second-fewest in the NFL. That’s only going to take you so far."

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nfl-power-rankings-packers-blowout-loss-rai...

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dobber's picture

November 26, 2019 at 01:22 pm

I think we've been reading "Yahoo! Sports" here on this site over the last few days.

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Cubbygold's picture

November 26, 2019 at 08:16 pm

For sure. Just posted for the ridiculous take.

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Jonathan Spader's picture

November 26, 2019 at 11:30 am

As usual Cory uses a lot of words to peove absolutely nothing. It wasn't Kittle's speed that allowed him to get wide open on a long pass play down the middle. It was the defense not covering him. Yes Samuel is fast bit MVS is faster. Zadarius is faster than Bosa but doesn't have the power Bosa has.

It wasn't speed that beat the Packers they were outplayed and outcoached. The main reason for the Packers defeat is becaise games are won and lost in the trenches. SF didn't win with speed but with power on OL and DL overwhelming the Packers and negating their pass rush.

Skule was the weak link on the SF OL and SF made the adjustment and had the FB aid him. Meanwhile when Brulaga went out Lewis and Vitale weren't able to bail out Light. It's called getting schooled and hopefully the Packers learn from it. Speed was as irrelevant as this article.

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Tarynfor12's picture

November 26, 2019 at 11:47 am

There's two types of speed...

Combine speed and game play speed.

The Packers have combine speed and no game speed in any manner.

The lack of separation shows that and is the assumed reason Rodgers holds the ball too long. If not, then Rodgers has lost his ability to get the ball out/accuracy/timing and that falls to confidence which brings us full circle to the ' trust ' bs.
It has to be one of the three...
WR game speed
Rodgers ability failing
Trust between QB and WR's.

I'm going with all three because the sum of the parts equals shit play.

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Gort's picture

November 26, 2019 at 06:07 pm

Driver's Ed class told us "Speed Kills".
It absolutely is what killed the Pack in every loss this season.
Our opponents got it and we need it.

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canadapacker's picture

November 26, 2019 at 11:50 am

Ok people settle down. That was disgusting against both the Chargers and 49r's I agree. But if at the start of the season, we know that almost every fan would very happy if we would be 8-3 after 12 games. So we have holes. When you look at the great defenses, they all have great if not good middle linebackers. Ours is a pilon and cannot cover anyone and cannot fill any holes. Our D line has been improved greatly but if you cannot stop the run because our linebackers our poor, then it is hard to hold up in the defensive backfield. And those guys are rookies and are getting better, but we need a guy like Warner, Kendricks , Wagner etc. Had TT taken TJ Watt what would are defense look like? Now these are not all first rounders but they exhibit speed and toughness. So we are a couple of guys away from being much better on defense.
Special teams has been an issue and will continue to be, if the ST coach cannot get things turned around perhaps a change is needed. Our roster seems to be strong enough not to be that bad, so why are our punts getting blocked or the punter being pressured? Why cannot the guys block downfield for our punt returner and get downfield in their lanes to get their returners. Maybe we have a lack of training on that end.
One can never predict who will win on any Sunday but this Sunday in particular and the game against Washington are critical to get to 10 wins. After that who cares. We were predicted to finish 4th by some of the experts and at 3 after Chicago and Minnie by most and we have proven to date that we are better than that. Not yet an elite team, but looking at the Rams last night, it doesnt take long to go from a sure thing to an also run in short order. Also remember we had a chance to beat those good Rams if not for Montgomery's stupid fumble.

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ImaPayne's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:06 pm

This is one discussion most of us on this blog dont want to hear again. The difference between the Viles always seeming to be a tough out and pre pared to play anyone and never missing a beat, and the Packers and Lions always talking, next year need to add better next year is this. GM's
Spielman stole three drafts by himself by giving up 3 and 4 picks to move deep into the first rounds and get talent.
Guys like Harrison Smith. Pro bowler, mean tackler, and someone who maybe missed a couple games in his career.
ONe guy, who plays one position and does it dam well. They have a team of these guys.

Our new GM, he said he picked Gary in Feb before the combine because he fit the mold of the packers, able to play two positions. Ya and neither of them well thats the problem with these so called dual players. thats the problem with draft and development philosophy.
Burnett, gone when he got good. Randall having a pro bowl year for the Browns. Casey doing well too. The list goes on and just when we develop someone, they leave for mo money.

The whole problem with the pack org starts at the top and their plan if you will.

Four key free agents of the Vikes came back for less money because they thought this team was ready to do something great. Dont remember any packer taking less money to save the team.

Nothing will change as far as I'm concerned until the change starts at the top. Gary at 12? That's a mistake you cannot make. Thats where you pro bowlers come from.

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canadapacker's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:29 pm

I dont think that you can judge a guy by his first year totally. Especially at that type of position. Running back maybe but not a hybrid type of player - even TJ Watt didnt play as well his first year as now - but now Biegle over Watt because of some TT paranoia that was dumb. I do agree with us being too tight. Too many O linemen playing elsewhere while we are suffering here with the likes of Spriggs. But Graham over re-signing Cook - now that was being stupidly tight. And letting some back end back end guys go because of why - not a cap issue then. But everybody is a good arm chair quarterback and there a couple of guys who got big contracts who are no longer playing - TJ Lang and maybe Mike Daniels

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JohnnyLogan's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:34 pm

Excellent. Didn't see this when I posted my similar comment immediately following this. You can't miss on high draft picks and we miss regularly. King over Watt was egregious. Gary over, oh, at least a dozen guys, was maybe even worse. Burks and Jackson in 2018 at #2 and #3 instead of a WR we desperately needed. What are these guys seeing that no one else sees? How did Gute not realize that with a Hall of Fame QB you need to give him weapons? It's bad management that has the Pack where they are; a lucky, soft, mediocre team. Gute needs at least four or five new starters next year or this will continue. Is he capable of that? Hopefully.

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Packerpasty's picture

November 26, 2019 at 05:11 pm

Winovich is outplaying Gary by a wide margin, of course with a good coaching staff and good scouts in taking him...many said Winovich was just a product of teams doubling Gary...nah, I watch Michigan football I was wishing and hoping they would take him and his non stop motor...

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JohnnyLogan's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:36 pm

My main gripe is lack of talent and that goes to drafting and signing FAs and that is on Gute. Blame Rodgers and MLF all you want but there's a severe lack of good players on this team. Especially on the offense. Gute struck out miserably on his 2018 draft. One starter in 12 picks. That's pretty ugly. Moved up for Burks. Instead of drafting a WR high he drafted three guys everyone passed over for a few hundred picks, and now we know why. Didn't sign one in free agency, and didn't draft one in 2019. And it's Rodger's fault? Anyone see Hollywood Brown yesterday with the Ravens? Many draft experts had him or Brian Burns going to the Packers at #12. No one had Gary. Never saw a single mock draft have us taking Gary. Not a single article. Gute wasn't reading any of those articles anyway, only his scout's obviously incompetent reports that said Gary, an underachiever with an injury was the guy to pick. The guy most draft experts thought would be the biggest bust at the top of the draft and we took him. After already signing two pass rushers. For big money. Insanity. Many here will make the usual argument that mock drafting is an amateur exercise, but what have Gute's drafts been if not amateur? Gute has been the big mistake all along. He's crippled this team while being praised endlessly for being the anti-TT because he went out and made a couple of good FA signings. We've been screaming for a WR for the last two years and Gute thought that Allison and MVS were good enough, and everyone, including most on this board, agreed. I set records in weeks 1 and 2 for number of thumbs down because I repeatedly slammed our WR corps. I'm not bringing this up now to take credit, don't care about that. I care that our problem is a huge one - our GM can't judge talent, Gute is the problem and that's greater than scheme or anything else.

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porupack's picture

November 26, 2019 at 01:56 pm

I respected what Alison did as an overachiever. But I argued that he should have been dropped this year, in favor of MVS, ESB, Lazard. I also was not on the Kumerow hype. But I still think MVS, ESB and Lazard (especially) will be good receivers.

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splitpea1's picture

November 26, 2019 at 02:38 pm

I think the Packers' drafting problems, especially on defense, are the result of being smitten with raw athletic ability--too often they use their picks on "high ceiling" project types and hybrids instead of players that can be developed quickly.

In all honesty, the Packers' front office would have been better off going to the supermarket the past few years and purchasing one of the many mock draft guides available and doing just what it says. It certainly would have been better than wasting high round draft picks on players who either take too long to develop or don't develop at all.

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Packerpasty's picture

November 26, 2019 at 05:18 pm

Thank you...you got it right..my Packer friends thought I was crazy when I said our WR corp sucks...a bunch of UDFA's and low draft choices...somehow because of being training camp wonders (against kids who are probably now not playing or on practice squads) people think they would flourish with Rodgers throwing them the ball...well first you have to run the right route, then you actually have to be able to beat a defender...now G'mo and MVS seem to be regressing, or perhaps returning to what they really are...not very good...sad bunch of drafting, especially Gary...what a foolish waste of a high pick..Gute's trying to outsmart everyone...naw, just looks dumb now...so what surprises like this next year?? Someone has to wake up in the front office..

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wildbill's picture

November 26, 2019 at 12:45 pm

Man you would think we were 3-8 instead of 8-3! It takes more than one season to completely turn over a roster. I think we will be fine as soon as our coaches start working on everyone’s pad levels, just saying.

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Leo Van Groll's picture

November 26, 2019 at 01:20 pm

The Defense needs the offense to stay on the field. 1 for 16 on third down tells the whole story here. Several of those were 3rd & 5 or less & Rodgers continued to throw deep to Adams. They need to string some first downs together to get the D some rest. 49ers D was dominant in the second half because they were fresh. And, let's remember that before the season all the predictions were the Packers going 8-8 or 9-7. We just got spoiled early by an easy schedule & catching the Chiefs with Mahomes, Wadkins,& Tyreek Hill out. They are also losing the field position battle due to poor punting & too many 3 and outs. Here's 1 more thing to mull over. Brett Favre exploded on the scene after Sterling Sharpe got injured, & he started spreading the ball around to Freeman, Brooks, etc......I think we may be seeing the same thing here. Favre was forcing the ball to Sharpe, just like Aaron is forcing it to Adams. Oh, & for a parting shot......Jimmy Graham looks sloooooow.

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alforno54's picture

November 26, 2019 at 03:05 pm

8-3. Wins in their last 2 home games guarantees a 10-6 record and probably a playoff spot. This has been accomplished with a new HC trying to implement a new system with lots of pieces remaining from the old system. Rosters can't be completely turned over in 1 offseason. The 49ers,Rams ,and Bills have sucked for a long time and because of that are loaded with high draft picks.I think the fact we are talking playoffs in MLF first season with 5. or 6 new starters and a new staff is a pretty good spot to be in. After another draft and maybe a pickup or 2 who knows. Now maybe we could just give Dezs agent a call

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alforno54's picture

November 26, 2019 at 03:05 pm

8-3. Wins in their last 2 home games guarantees a 10-6 record and probably a playoff spot. This has been accomplished with a new HC trying to implement a new system with lots of pieces remaining from the old system. Rosters can't be completely turned over in 1 offseason. The 49ers,Rams ,and Bills have sucked for a long time and because of that are loaded with high draft picks.I think the fact we are talking playoffs in MLF first season with 5. or 6 new starters and a new staff is a pretty good spot to be in. After another draft and maybe a pickup or 2 who knows. Now maybe we could just give Dezs agent a call

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Lare's picture

November 26, 2019 at 05:46 pm

Not sure what they're building but it's not a consistent winning football team.

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Rossonero's picture

November 26, 2019 at 07:42 pm

I think what bothered me the most was LaFleur's lack of adjustments after halftime. With the 49ers fierce pass rush, you'd think the Packers would switch it up to do some quicker passes to set up the running game. Did we? Nope. LaFleur said at halftime "we need to stick to the plan."

Oh, really? You mean the same plan that got us down 23-0 at halftime? WTF. MAKE ADJUSTMENTS! Whether LaFleur was just saying "stick to the plan" so as to not give away their real intentions is possible, but I just didn't see it.

Jonathan Spader brought up a good point. After Bulaga went down, did we make any adjustments to give Alex Light a hand? Nope. Give him some TE or FB help? Ehh, why bother?

LaFleur looked befuddled in this game. He looked like Sean McVay looked in the Super Bowl last year -- getting schooled.

Having shitty special teams is really getting freaking old too. year after year after year after year the special teams STINKS!

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jannes bjornson's picture

November 27, 2019 at 03:56 am

G.B. has to get more physical players. ZaDarious brings it every play and Kenny Clark is getting his game back. Patrick may have to be part of the O line,one way or the other, just to bring some attitude. Sternberger has to be given a chance to make some plays. Lazard and Kumerow can execute in the short game. Allison dropped a first down catch and killed a 1st qtr drive. Rodgers does not have a TE receiving threat that can separate.Russell Wilson went to Moffet when Seattle whacked SF a couple weeks ago and had the stellar LB play from Wright and Wagner.
Packers have to tighten up the interior spots on both sides of the ball. Should have moved on Tate for their #2 and PR guy, but that's sour grapes.

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