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Cory's Corner: Mike McCarthy Has Struck Out

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Cory's Corner: Mike McCarthy Has Struck Out

The Packers this season have looked like a boxer in the 12thround. 

They are hanging on the ropes, just trying to make it to the next bell. They look gassed and most importantly, they don’t have any answers. 

Head coach Mike McCarthy continues to overthink things when the answers are right in front of him. In Week 5, the Packers faced the Lions and their then-No. 31 run defense — yet dynamic sparkplug Aaron Jones only had seven carries.

Now the Dolphins and their No. 31 run defense come to Lambeau Field this weekend. Many are saying that the Packers better use the running game more. But I ask, why would anything change? McCarthy has been one of the most stubborn coaches in the league and Aaron Rodgers even outed McCarthy for his lack of using the run-pass option in Foxborough last week. 

“We didn’t have a ton the other night,” Rodgers said, who is on pace for career-highs in passing attempts (703) and passing yards (5,446). “We had more read-option stuff but I think we only had one RPO in the plan.”

Rodgers is in his 11thseason as a starter and he still isn’t getting 100 percent autonomy at the line of scrimmage? Rodgers has always gotten ripped for his lack of trust in Green Bay’s wideouts, but how much trust does McCarthy have in his future Hall of Fame quarterback? And since McCarthy doesn’t trust him with the entire offense, that isn’t going to instill confidence on a team that clearly needs it.

Even if the Packers back into the playoffs, I highly doubt McCarthy is roaming the Lambeau sidelines in 2019. This team has looked disinterested, frustrated and has been pointing fingers. I think the lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball is particularly glaring, but the defense is actually playing decent. That unit is ranked 15thin yards given up per game. That’s pretty good after being ranked 22ndin 2016 and 2017. 

The problem is that McCarthy hasn’t changed his philosophy in the last eight years, while the personnel has turned over several times. You cannot expect this crew of receivers to win with isolation routes just like the 2014 team did with Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb and Davante Adams. 

I don’t know if McCarthy has lost the locker room because I’m not there. But I do think the locker room has cratered. I don’t think guys trust each other anymore. Whether that’s being able to get open on a third-and-7 or pick up the weakside blitzing linebacker. And how much trust does this Packers defense have in McCarthy to get out to an early lead?

McCarthy has had plenty of time to tinker with things. The Packers have the best pass-blocking unit in the league according to Pro Football Focus, yet he still has a quarterback that refuses to get the ball out in a timely manner.

There’s clearly a disconnect with Rodgers and McCarthy and if you don’t see it, you either don’t want to or you never will. Rodgers needs someone that will challenge him. He needs someone that won’t be afraid to tell the NFL’s all-time career leader in passer rating (103.5) that he had a bad throw or a bad game.

Rodgers is starting to develop lazy mechanics and in order to get those curbed, new and creative leadership must step in.  

-------------------

Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He is also nearing completion of a master's degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter @Coryjennerjohn

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (144) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Michael Hughes's picture

Regarding losing the locker room, hoping that once Gute has his guys in, we are going to lose the "if in doubt kick them out" policy. Its going to be pretty much everyman for themself if Gute is going to fire a few players every time we lose.

We need a new HC just because sometimes you need to freshen things up. This season isnt on MM though, its just not as strong a roster as in previous years. Certainly on offense drafting defense every year means less young talent.

Jonathan Spader's picture

For young talent on offense we have Tonyan, Jones, Williams, Adams, Moore, MVS, ESB. That's just the young offensive weapons how is there a lack of talent compared to the young talent of defense?

EddieLeeIvory's picture

As noted by PFF, The OL had been rock-solid.
U say the offense lacks talent? I say BS to that.

Aaron Jones & MVS are great young talents.
Jones has a lot of Alvin Kamara in him.
MVS has some Julio Jones to his game.
Adding in Jimmy Graham, Davante is a stud.... this is more talent around our #12 than Brady has, usually has.

Rodgers deserves some blame here too.
But 80% I put on Fat Mike. I'm on the #FireCorky bandwagon now.

Nick Perry's picture

"The problem is that McCarthy hasn’t changed his philosophy in the last eight years, while the personnel has turned over several times. You cannot expect this crew of receivers to win with isolation routes just like the 2014 team did with Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb and Davante Adams. "

I'm not trying to toot my own horn but I've been saying something along these same lines since 2015. GONE are the days the Packers can trot out more quality WR's than a defense can cover. Now I like MVS and am hopeful St. Brown can turn into a quality WR BUT those 2 just aren't there yet. The Packers have Davante Adams and....

Now that's a damn shame to have a QB you just signed to a $134 million extension and not have the bullets to load the gun. MVS is looking like a steal in the 5th round right now. If St. Brown develops or the Packers address it early in next years draft then they'll have some bullets. But even then the Packers HAVE to have some creativity to their offense and McCarthy has proven incapable of adding that. I mean the man said he overhauled the playbook and Rodgers still only had ONE RPO?? How many times have to watched a game with the Chiefs, Saints, Rams, Eagles, or even Bengals and heard the words RPO (Run, Pass, Option).

I'm already looking forward to next season. I'm looking forward to one of the best drafts in the last 12 years as far as talent . I'm looking forward to adding some quality FA who can help the Packers be a better team the second they take the field. But mostly I'm looking forward to a new HC who can instantly make the Packers offense fun to watch again.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

"But mostly I'm looking forward to a new HC who can instantly make the Packers offense fun to watch again."

I was really hopeful MM would be different this season. That the new OC, BG and the "scrubbrush approach" would change the trajectory of the offense. It hasn't, and time is running out.

Turophile's picture

@NickPerry I really don't think the next draft is "one of the best drafts in the last 12 years".

The view from scouts seems to be that it is a below average draft overall. It is a very good draft for D linemen and a good one for pass rushers. It is not a great draft for interior linemen, offensive tackles, QBs, Safeties, TEs. The rest is fairly average, but the overall depth is not as good as (for example) last year.

None of that matters as much as the Packers making good choices each time their turn to pick comes around. I hope they do under Gutekunst, and while every draft is important, with the picks they have (and the holes they have), the 2019 draft is especially important to the Packers.

Oppy's picture

Not buying that Rodgers doesn’t have the offensive weapons to succeed. Not one bit.

Packers have more than enough talent at the skill positions to be a top five offense if Rodgers plays the offense to his ability. Any other top tier QB in the league would be putting all these guys to use.

Rodgers trust issues, pride, and desire to prove he’s s big play machine who can do it all with his arm are hurting this offense. Adams, Cobb, Geronimo (earlier in season) , MVS, EQ, Graham,Lewis, Jones, and Williams are plenty to get it done. PLENTY.

Need a QB to have supreme confidence in their arm, but they also have to be blessed with the wisdom to take what the defense gives you and utilize all the talent around you- even if that means it’s a 4th or 5th stringrookie WR, or god forbid, pounding the rock consistently for an entire game.

Lare's picture

As I've said before, McCarthy's biggest mistake this last offseason was bringing Philbin back. He had an opportunity to bring in somebody with a fresh new outlook on their offense, yet he brought back an old crony that ran the same failed offense in Miami.

McCarthy is an old horse who's tricks used to work in the past but don't anymore. And that's because opposing teams have seen the exact same plays for years.

Mike is a good man who has been very successful for Green Bay for years, but it'll be best for the team and for him to move on after this season. And if Murphy won't do it, it'll be best for him to move on also.

mrtundra's picture

What impact, if any has Philbin had as OC? I haven't seen anything fresh out of this offense except for our players. Adams, MVS, Jones, Graham, ESB, once in a while, and Williams. ARod looks tired and I think, wants a coaching change Although, he is as much to blame for our current situation as the coaching has been, lately.. Saying that, there is no QB I'd rather have with 2 minutes , or less, on the clock, with 90 yards to go for the winning score.

tincada's picture

Philbin who?

The TKstinator's picture

Regis??

Oppy's picture

I was extremely high on Philbin coming back- based on Rodgers glowing reports from years past that nobody could get the offense prepared for facing an opposing defense like Philbin could. I thought he’d be a bigger difference maker than Pettine. Rodgers went on about how Philbin was meticulous about setting up the scout team defense to exactly mirror the upcoming opponents defensive fronts, and Rodgers said the fact the packers offfensexwas so well prepared on Sunday’s due to Philbin’s detailing was a key ingredient to their success. “Nothing was a surprise on Sunday’s, we’d seen it all during prep during the week.”.

Well, so much for that.

LoftKing's picture

Last week, 6 runs and 15 passes in the 1st quarter. What I have been seeing is defense's are only playing pass. Sure they know they will give up a few good runs but not enough to worry about. There is pressure on Rodgers on play action. The opposition defensive game plan is simple. Play coverage and rush the passer every play.

Rossonero's picture

It's just time for him to go. He's run his course. I'm mainly curious if we'd promote Pettine. He'd run the defense and let Aaron take control of the offense.

He also seems to have a connection with his players. Something McCarthy is lacking in.

Gort's picture

I can' t give both thumbs up and thumbs down.
Aaron takes control of the offense? Players play / coaches coach. If Aaron wants to coach, then he should take off the pads and coach. Otherwise, still need a quality OC and staff.

Pettine seems to be winning over the defensive side and that has sorely been lacking for a while.

Still plenty more house cleaning needed, both on the coching staff and roster.

Rossonero's picture

Obviously we'd have an offensive coordinator, but I meant giving him more freedom at the line of scrimmage -- much like Peyton Manning had later in his career.

Greg Jennings said in an interview that back in the day, he'd be in the huddle with Brett and a play would come in. he'd look at the guys and say, "yeah, we're not doing that." Us as fans obviously were not aware of that.

Jennings said when Rodgers took over, McCarthy clamped down -- hard. As we know, McCarthy is stubborn and wants control. Rodgers has the 2 minute drill to himself, that's about it.

Ferrari Driver's picture

I'm not positive, but Favre may currently hold the record for the most interceptions in the history of the NFL. I liked Favre a lot, but mentally, he and Rodgers live on different planets.

dblbogey's picture

I don't ever believe a word Greg Jennings says.

Oppy's picture

That was true during the first two full years of rodgers starting. It has been publicly acknowledged dating back as far as the offseason preceding 2011 that AR was given the keys to the offense. It has been repeated echos since then, with one particular point in 2015 where MM reeled Rodgers in a bit to get him back on track.

Most recently commented on by Jimmy Graham during an in-season appearance on a national interview spot, where he commented that most big time QBs can change a route or the occasional play, but Rodgers is the first he’s seen who has everything under his control, can change anything and everything.

tincada's picture

And there go another two years.

Rak47's picture

Pettine has publicly stated he has no desire to be a head coach again. However it's not unheard of for people to change their minds. I personally think he would be a great head coach as he did a very nice job in Cleveland before they canned him prematurely. In any case I would love to see him stay and choose his own staff if they bring in a new HC with an offensive mindset. I see quite a bit of improvement from a young defense so to me it's not worth turning over the entire staff and having to gamble on a new offense and defense trying to gel in one season. That would knock another year off our window of opportunity with AR at QB. So regardless of who the new HC Is, imho Pettine should stay. If he continues to strengthen the defense the Packers would be much better equipped to handle any bumps in the road the team may face while the offense adjusts and finds a rhythm.

Rossonero's picture

If Pettine could stay as DC, I'd love it. You see what Vic Fangio staying in Chicago has done for the Bears.

Matt Nagy sticks to the offense and leaves the rest to Vic -- much like Mike Ditka did with Buddy Ryan. Continuity is important.

Rak47's picture

Exactly! great examples btw.

Rossonero's picture

Thanks Rak.

The TKstinator's picture

Khalil Mack doesn’t hurt either.

Guam's picture

I see the same issues Cory does and am very close to jumping on the dump MM bandwagon. The only thing holding me back is there is no guarantee that the next HC is better than MM and he could be worse. I want to see the rest of the season - MM has pulled rabbits out of a hat before and he deserves the full season to try. If nothing changes in the remaining games though, I will hop on the bandwagon too.

tincada's picture

The only rabbit MM has pulled out has been full of shit. If they are going to dump him now is the time to draw up the short list. If they wait to the end of the year it'll be be no different than waiting until preseason to start looking for FAs. All the good talent will be gone by then.

dobber's picture

.

Cory Jennerjohn's picture

I agree 100% Guam. Grass isn’t always greener; however, the next head coach must be willing to listen to his players and be willing to change things up for each opponent.

Jonathan Spader's picture

A great head coach must listen to his players... a great QB once said "players play coaches coach".

flackcatcher's picture

Cory, the comments on CHTV have been dealing with McCarthy-Rodgers for sometime now. I suggest reading '61 RCPackerFan and others for a good overview of the current situation. Andy Herman latest post on CHTV is a fine place to understand the context of where the team is at this point in the season. I will only add this. Aaron Rodgers is playing injured and it is clear that his performance is hurting the team. At what point does the best player become a liability and must be pulled for good of team? It's a tough call, one we fans do not have to make.

Tarynfor12's picture

" Aaron Rodgers is playing injured and it is clear that his performance is hurting the team."

The injury sure seems to come and go depending on game result. I personally believe Rodgers has ' lingered ' this out for reasons other than actual lingering injury.

" At what point does the best player become a liability and must be pulled for good of team? It's a tough call, one we fans do not have to make."

If the injury was as serious as first proclaimed, the decision to keep him out for the teams long view this season has well passed the time. It would have been better to have sat him for the week 2 and 3 games and had him ' healthier ' weeks 4-9 and forward and having possible being 6-2 at this point than 3-4-1 because of his ego and an ego that MM has lost to.

Johnblood27's picture

I simply cannot believe I gave you a thumbs up..

This season has officially tanked.

Tarynfor12's picture

I simply cannot care less what you do with your thumbs.

Johnblood27's picture

back to ab-normal...

Be gone TROLL!

Cory Jennerjohn's picture

That injury is a pretty flimsy excuse for a guy that hangs on to the ball as long as he does.

Cory Jennerjohn's picture

Thanks flakcatcher, but we don’t need any more perspective. It’s a classic power struggle between two large egos. McCarthy wants the offense to continue to run the same way, while Rodgers is frustrated that this offense doesn’t scheme guys open.

flackcatcher's picture

Perhaps, but we seen this dance between these two a bit too long. Something has to give, and I don't think Rodgers has the edge that you might think he has Cory. Gute was there when Ted gave the boot to Favre. He knows what the cost will be. Well, you and I and the rest of Packer nation will be bystanders if this becomes a trainwreck.

nostradanus's picture

Big Mike has been a fine coach for the Packers but me thinks the players need a new direction.
He will most likely move on to Cleveland and it just may energize his career, coaches need a change of scenery just as players sometimes do. If he does move on he will be remembered as one of the finest coaches and men in Packers history. It may not seem like it now, but he will be missed when he’s gone.

Since '61's picture

Nostradanus - excellent post and I agree completely especially the last 2 sentences. MM brings integrity, resilience, belief in his system, care for his players and an appreciation for Packers history and tradition into the mix.
He will be missed but the Packers and other teams around the league are moving in new directions. It's beginning to look like MM needs a new direction as well. Thanks, Since '61

Ferrari Driver's picture

me agrees with Nostradanus. I like his style.

Rossonero's picture

Couldn't agree more on all points. I appreciate everything he's done for the Packers. He's a class act of a coach, it's just his time has come to move on.

Golden Retriever's picture

Good post. I agree. Personally, though, I would hope that Mike McCarthy steps away from football for a year to focus on his family and his health. His younger, more fit brother died of a massive heart attack a few years ago, and MM looks like he’s headed for the same fate. The life of an NFL coach is stressful and all-consuming. MM has young kids who would benefit from his greater presence in their lives for at least a season. He can hop back on the hamster wheel again in the future if he wants to go that route.

Slim11's picture

Moving MM out of Green Bay following the end of this season is a popular opinion, mine included.

As has been pointed out, who would replace him and will said coach be the same/better/worse? The answer is no one knows. However, there comes a time when change becomes necessary for all parties involved. This may be the time. I expect several qualified candidates will make themselves known.

There are many factors of the Packers' play this season which fall squarely on MM, mostly on the offense. Play calling is getting worse and more predictable. The playbook scrubbing which was supposed to happen between him and Philbin appears to be little more than lip service. Adding TE Jimmy Graham doesn't appear to be as effective as hoped. The running game, specifically Aaron Jones, has been mostly ignored as proven by the Lions and Patriots games.

Team-wide issues are an apparent lack of discipline and immaturity. Younger players are more likely to make foolish choices resulting in penalties. Older players, like Ty Montgomery, are expected to do what they're told. McCarthy refused to publicly throw Montgomery under the bus after the Rams loss. Do any of us know if McCarthy, privately, went to Murphy and Gutekunst and said he wanted Montgomery out ASAP? If he did, could this be a reason he's losing/lost the players? Issues such as these are coaching issues and fall on McCarthy.

Quoting Kevin Greene, "It is time!"

arthurl's picture

Agree MM is part of the issue, but haven't been impressed with key players they needed to have production from. Clay, Dix, Perry, Cobb; these four players based on their contracts needed to perform. You throw in Crosby missing FGs in Detroit, Montgomery trying to be a hero, Vikes game they should have won, it's more than the coach. I didn't even mention the new "great" GM screwed up by not going after Reid at safety and the fact that last four years of TT's drafting were pretty much garbage.

Since '61's picture

We've heard that Rodgers has had complete control of the offense for years. Now we're hearing that is and has not been the case. Something very wrong here.

If Rodgers does not have control of the offense that is on MM and Philbin and needs to change as of yesterday. Why Rodgers would not have control of the offense makes no sense to me.

Yesterday, I was listening to Mike Francesca on WFAN in NY and a caller asked him "if MM left GB and the Jets fired Todd Bowles would MM be a good coach for the NY Jets to develop Sam Darnold." Mike replied that he "thinks that MM is a good coach and that he has had Rodgers the entire time in GB and has won one SB with him. But he(MM) has not had very good personnel around him (AR) and that he (MM) has not been happy about it. MM does not make the personnel decisions up there (GB). He is not sure how good MM would be in another situation."

Personally I don't think MM would do well in NY because he would be challenged by the NY media and after years of softballs from the GB media I expect that NY would be a problem for him.

In any case MM has had a long and successful run with the Packers. If this team does not respond over the second half of the season and really the next 3-4 games it will be time for MM to move on. I don't even think that a one and done playoff scenario is enough to save MM.

Gute is taking this team in a new direction with hopefully better players and it's beginning to look like it's time for a new HC who can relate and get the most out of younger players.

Lets' see how it goes against Miami. One game at a time. Thanks, Since '61

JimR_in_SoCal's picture

QUOTE: "and a caller asked him 'if MM left GB and the Jets fired Todd Bowles would MM be a good coach for the NY Jets to develop Sam Darnold.'"

Maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't really seen any evidence that MM has been anything special when it comes to QB development. I'd say that he has been incredibly lucky with having Favre and Rodgers under center since he's been coaching the Packers.

stockholder's picture

Next Ny coach Joe Lombardi.

flackcatcher's picture

Good load, The black hole of NFL. Pray for him.

Since '61's picture

When Rodgers was drafted his mechanics were not good. MM worked with AR to adjust his mechanics making him a much better QB. Accurate or not MM has been credited with ARs early development as an NFL starting QB.
Thanks, Since '61

Stickfish's picture

Don’t know how much MM has actually been involved with 12’s mechanics.
Coupled with the release of Nelson I have to wonder about the chemistry in the locker room was in Camp and now in season.

“Well, my quarterback coach didn't get retained," Rodgers said. "I thought that was an interesting change, really without consulting me. There's a close connection between quarterback and quarterback coach, and that was an interesting decision."

Van Pelt had been with Green Bay since 2012 and had been the quarterbacks coach since 2014, the season Rodgers won his second MVP award.

Oppy's picture

All you need to do is go back and watch film of Rodgers mechanics as a rookie and compare them to Rodgers mechanics when he took over for Favre during the Dallas game two years later.

Completely night and day- there is no “I’m not sure” about it. Completely different QB, and that’s long before van pelt (who, incidentally, Rodgers complained about early on when he was hired to replace tom clements).

Keep in mind, during rodgers’ early development, MM’s “qb school” still had teeth before the new CBA took hold and basically dismantled it due to new rules limiting he ability to bring players together during the off season for practice.

Tarynfor12's picture

Some are afraid of moving MM out because there's no guarantee of who would be next or if successful.

Guaranteed satisfaction is a delusion and something that the 'blind optimist ' suffers with intensely and voluntarily.

Some things are guaranteed...the box of corn flakes has corn flakes inside. The lollipop in the wrapper is a lollipop. The sun will rise and set until it doesn't.

With the 'blind optimistic ' view so many exude, it's counter intuitive of them to suddenly reveal a lacking in the faith/hope of ...' If he comes to GB, he will be great '...value of the blind optimist.

Fear not and expect guarantee's and once again raise your shield of ' optimism ' to protect you from the decision to be made, no matter when or whom selected, surely he is guaranteed to be great via the blind optimism belief system.

Being a realist, I have no doubt that the best decision is to move on from MM and that doing so may have the team being unsuccessful but they're already unsuccessful, though success has different meanings, and based on the what should have been the Rodgers Effect, settling for playoff contender is a far cry from the kind of success that,well, some considered a...guarantee....not too long ago.

Is MM the sole reason for failure, has Rodgers been abused by TT and/or MM ? No one will know for sure as like the Favre debacle but a change is needed and guarantee's be dammed....since...we still have Rodgers and all will be fine....right?

Tundraboy's picture

I think I like this. My thought is simple.Ask a Jet fan, that if they had Rodgers would they be okay with firing the coach?

dblbogey's picture

Why do so many people have trouble spelling RODGERS correctly? Did you spell Brett's name as "Farve"?. Pet peeve I guess: your instead of you're, boarders instead of borders, etc, etc. Sorry, I'm just in a pissy mood.

JimR_in_SoCal's picture

QUOTE from Tarynfor12: "Some are afraid of moving MM out because there's no guarantee of who would be next or if successful."

Stockholm syndrome is a condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity. - Wiki

Packers fans are perhaps the hostages, afraid of loosing McCarthy (their captor). A while back, the Browns fans were, for years, "held hostage" by their "captor" Marty Schottenheimer. The Browns, under MS were almost good enough to win it all, but in fact, they never did. Hat tip to the person that posts here from time to time that has mentioned our suffering from Schottenheimer syndrome. Added irony for the frequent mentions by various posters to a possible MM move to Cleveland if we jettison him.

Don't fear the future. Go Pack!

The TKstinator's picture

I fear neither the future nor the reaper.
I only fear a lack of cowbell.

Oppy's picture

Of course, the city of Cleveland has only seen 3 winning seasons of football since Marty Schottenheimer's departure 30 years ago.

Don't fear the future, but understand change does not guarantee the desired outcome.

Johnblood27's picture

Lets not forget that MM is a Schotty disciple...

Oppy's picture

While Mike McCarthy has talked about his appreciation for some of Schottenheimer's tactics, he is not a "Schotty disciple". He's on Bill Walsh/Paul Hacket's offensive coaching tree.

MM learned his trade as a coach and crafted his offense from the teachings of Paul Hackett (who was a first generation Bill Walsh disciple himself). MM served as an assistant coach while Hackett was the QB coach at Pitt in the late 80's/early 90's, and when Paul Hackett went back to the NFL as the OC for Kansas City in the 90's, he brought McCarthy along as an assistant coach.

While Marty Schottenheimer was the Head Coach of KC during the time the MM was there, it needs to be understood that Schottenheimer's offense was not featured. When Paul Hackett was hired by Schottenheimer to serve as the OC, Hackett's version of Walsh's West Coast Offense was installed and utilized- NOT Schottenheimer's offense.

MM almost certainly took notes on how Schottenheimer operated as a HC, but McCarthy's offensive roots from a philosophical standpoint are not traced back to Schottenheimer. He's on Bill Walsh's tree, specifically by way of Paul Hackett.

Lphill's picture

Hello Cleveland

snowdog's picture

Cleveland = Green bay Packers East .

stockholder's picture

Cory your Article Stinks. It's all about keeping the fan base against MM. Your right, Your not in the locker room. Your right, A-Rod is Bitching. But A-Rod still shows up at practice and runs the plays. Doesn't He? He keeps his mouth shut after practice. He wants to win and so does everyone else. Yes, Mm could change things up. And so could his coaches. They evaluate the players and bring them up to game ready. The problem is most aren't game ready. Why New Faces! The players screwed up. Anyone that doesn't believe the packers shot themselves in the foot, is a a moron. The packers read and believe more crap, than they believe in their teammates now. Didn't Monty? And their play shows it. Sorry I'm not going to castrate MM when the team lacks a winning attitude. The failures of this team go beyond MM and his play calling. The revolving door has plagued the packers more than the play calling. And Mr. Rodgers has lost his neighborhood to a bully. The press.

Demon's picture

The press is the bully? The fans are the problem? In what universe does that make any sense at all?

The press has treated mm and tt with kid gloves forever! Read or watch press conferences from any other NFL city.

The Packers are the biggest and only draw in the state so no reporter will risk losing his press credentials by asking a tough question.

Since '61's picture

The press really!!!??? You need to watch a press conference with the NY media or Philly media or the Boston Red Sox media during the baseball season. The GreenBay press throws softballs because they are worried about their relationship with the team.

In NY the reporters are not concerned with being friends with the coaches they want answers and they don't stop either.

I don't think that the fan base is against MM. MM has lasted for 13 years and he has had a very successful run. Like most others, the NFL is a results driven business. It doesn't necessarily matter if the team's problems are all on MM or not. You can replace the coach you can't replace the team, at least not all of them at once. If MM can't get the team to respond over the second half of the season it is likely time for him to move on, unless the team suffers some catastrophic injuries.

If this team gets to the playoffs again, and wins a playoff game or 2 Gute will have a difficult decision to make. Thanks, Since '61

stockholder's picture

Yes the press. Every beat writer. Everyone; has a comment about MM on the Hot seat. Turn the channel. Pick up a mag. More. Etc. They want an admission of Guilty as charged. RESIGN! He hasn't said I call the wrong play. He said he sees positive things from players. He then manages more plays for them. His message is YOU Must Earn IT! He has not challenged A-Rod. And he's smart enough to not make a rift with a Hall of Fame QB public. I don't think you will get a coach that understands the game better. He made his life in football not journalism. Changes don't always bring Results. It's still favorable to see MM as the coach.

JimR_in_SoCal's picture

Find a safe space.

zerotolerance's picture

Wish you were a lead writer. Everything you always say is cerebral. More so than most others.

Since '61's picture

zero - I appreciate your generous comments. However, to be a serious lead writer I would need to spend much more time on topics to present a proper article and appropriate discussion. That much time is not available for me. In my own industry I have been published numerous times so I know what it takes to provide the audience with a piece that informs and respects the audience.

The contributors here at CHTV do a very good job and I appreciate their efforts on our behalf. Thanks, Since '61

Rak47's picture

"Sorry I'm not going to castrate MM when the team lacks a winning attitude". And who's job exactly do you think it is to instill that attitude into the Player? The equipment manager perhaps? Caper's system got old and outdated and he had to go. The NFL is taking a new direction on offense which made it necessary to bring in a coordinator who can adjust to that new style of play. The offense also needs to adjust to keep up the new trends in passing. The west coast offense is quickly becoming a relic of the past like the wishbone, V, and double wing formations. McCarthy needs to show he can be "fluid" and change his offense up to fit the times like Andy Reid has. Or he will most likely be gone after this season.

stockholder's picture

Capers was bad. And they threw every draft pick his way. Let's not blame the system. They did put points up in pre-season. And the game film week to week is always the first look. It's execution. This offense was hurt with Nelson out. He got slow. It's still hurt. The speed is gone. (Cobb) Every time a WR loses his speed this offense has had trouble. Go back to Favre and his Wrs. The need is for speed. The rookies must get on the field. And I do mean St Brown and MVS. I would like to see Moore, but I don't believe A-Rod has confidence in him yet. And I believe MM thinks they will FUMBLE. Hence also taking time with jones. (Comparison Wendall Tyler?) No matter how bad A-Rod throws the ball, he'll find someone if he has time. I don't believe in PFFs OL ratings, especially in must throw situations. Rookies do make mistakes. We saw three years of it with Adams. Now A-Rod wants more Adams. But MM wants BALL CONTROL. I don't believe MM is wrong. It makes great players!

Rak47's picture

I'm sorry you don't seem to get it stockholder. You can blame execution all you want, but why cross the Mississippi river on tight rope while juggling oranges when you can just walk across the damn bridge? Sure it can be done but what's the point? It surely isn't helping Rodgers or the young receivers. McCarthy is stale and outdated so is his scheme. There are more efficient methods of offense in today's NFL. I saw all last year how he tried to take Hundley and run the offense through him exactly like he does with AR. The man doesn't know how to adjust, I watched Bill O'Brien completely scrap his offense last year and tailor a new one to Deshaun Watson when he inserted Watson as his starter and they began winning while Watson was on his way to rookie of the year before his injury. This year they're currently riding a 6 game win streak because they have a coach that was willing to make it easy on his QB by scheming receivers open. The only thing in need of execution is McCarthy's stubborn and non flexible ways. And as to your point of not having speedy veterans, only speedy rookies, all the more reason to scheme them open if they can't uncover on athleticism or need help with precise reads and adjustments.

stockholder's picture

Ok - Lets say all you guys are right. MM is gone at the end of the season. No Matter what. Why try anymore? He's fired. You fired him by not showing support. I want the best pick we can get. It doesn't matter to anyone what MM does. (You now praised all players that failed MM. ) The higher draft pick is more important to the future. The new coach will get us to the super bowl. Nothing is wrong, it was all MM. Happy. Now what don't I get? Your example is Hundley. Why trust any QB behind A-Rod then. In fact why think A-Rod is still a MVP. He wants Adams, Cobb, and Allison. Why did we draft Wrs then? If I'm the new coach I want a new QB. Because the odds are A-Rod will take the money and run when he still gets hurt under a new system. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. The rebuilding just got bigger because you wanted MM gone.

Rak47's picture

It's not that I want McCarthy to fail. I ideally would like to see him get creative and flexible with his scheme and scheme some players into mismatches as well as to help the rookie WR's to get open. I just don't think he can or will do it. Idk if it's ego, or pride or whatever, but he has shown in the past how inflexible he is in his unwillingness to run the ball, to call RPO's, to give his backup lineman help from his TE's, or scheme to his player's skillset as opposed to trying force skillsets into his system. I expect the game today to be a lot closer than expected if McCarthy doesn't pull his head out his rear. I really wouldn't be surprised if Miami pulled an upset.

flackcatcher's picture

Stockholder is right in this instance. A lot of folks here want change for changes sake. We have and will have this augment through the rest of this season and into the off season no matter how the rest of this season plays out. I have said that their are good and valid reasons for firing McCarthy. Many well reasoned and written comments have been made on this thread why it's time for McCarthy to go. But the offense is not one of them. This offense works, KC is running a close variant and is putting up some impressive numbers. Even in a rebuilding year with the lack of depth exposed, this offense moves the ball down field pretty well. It all comes down to Rodgers not being effective in large swaths of the game. It's a quarterback league for good or ill, and our starter is not playing well. Nothing is going to change that until either Rodgers gets physically better, or he changes his playing style, or he is replaced.(the very last resort) Rogers is not executing the offense well enough to win. That's not on McCarthy, that's on Rodgers.

packergal's picture

OK, stockholder: "Capers was bad. And they threw every draft pick his way. Let's not blame the system..."

Was the system responsible for keeping Capers employed for all the years he was "bad" or was it MM?

Or more succinctly stated: Bad = system; good = MM?

I previously stated that MM is likely a good person and he has been a good coach for the Pack.

However, at this moment in time, significant change is required in GB--at the coaching and player positions.

stockholder's picture

Head coach is always responsible. And so were the players and TT. They gave him a vote of confidence. TT brought in Peppers. He could have done more. Was peppers done after he left GB? No. The failure was the DL. But the biggest problem was the secondary. Now People talk of edge rushers. I'm not ready to dump players when Peppers proved everyone wrong. But they must move on when the demands get to much. Just don't expect any miracles.

Tundraboy's picture

So true. I certainly wouldn't describe McCarthy's version a West Coast Offense

Oppy's picture

MM's version of the WCO is more in-line with the predecessor of (or, maybe the sister to) the WCO, which is the vertical offense.

Many of the same concepts where it concerns how route combinations evolve on the field (which is arguably the single most defining attribute of the West Coast Offense or Vertical Offense), but a different overall offensive philosophy.

Oppy's picture

.

zerotolerance's picture

You’re. Please.

The TKstinator's picture

How about “more than” vs “more then”?

Oppy's picture

You guys are both "prolly" right.

Jonathan Spader's picture

This doesn't have to do with keeping or firing MM but I find it equally aggravating:

Perry's $14.7 million cap hit in 2019 is fifth among all outside linebackers, trailing only Von Miller, Khalil Mack, Justin Houston and Melvin Ingram.

Tarynfor12's picture

" Perry's $14.7 million cap hit in 2019 is fifth among all outside linebackers, trailing only Von Miller, Khalil Mack, Justin Houston and Melvin Ingram."

The utmost 'sign '-ing of " success."

Lare's picture

The Packers can save a few million in 2019 if they cut Perry. I think they will.

stockholder's picture

How many draft picks are you planning to use on the OLB. You need two to start. Cmlll and Perry if you cut him. How many do you use at the safety position. How many do you use on back-ups. There just aren't that many out there that can make that impact. Your going to over-pay for avg. in the free -agent market. Not to mention the depth on the OL. Seriously I don't see Frackwell or Gilbert full -time. Cmlll still will make his money elsewhere. Just like Nelson.

Rak47's picture

You just have to be smart about it and see how the chips fall. I think Gute will look for FA help at Safety, where the market value has been depressed these past few years and he won't have to shell out a huge contract. I think he goes after offensive lineman in the draft and addresses the OLB position through a combination of draft picks and FA where the Packers will have reportedly close to 60mil in cap room next year. Everything else will be pick the best available player in the draft to strengthen depth.

Guam's picture

My thoughts exactly. You should be able to get Safety and RG help at reasonable prices in free agency. Free agent OLB's rarely happen and when they do, are usually significantly over priced. OLB's and others through the draft, Safety and RG through free agency. We should finally have the cap space and draft choices to plug many of the holes on this team.

packerbackerjim's picture

I think they will keep for no other reason than depth. He will be an expensive backup next year And gone in 2020.

Ferrari Driver's picture

One of the major problems resides with the edge rushers Mathews and Perry. They hit our cap for about 30 million per year and the only rushing we are getting out of them is to the bank to deposit their checks.

The TKstinator's picture

They might even have direct deposit.

LeotisHarris's picture

Right, TK. I recall this being one of the first things Admin did when the Packers became more corporate. It took a few months to get it through Accounting (Mike Sherman had been paying players in cash), but now HR touts direct deposit in all employee recruiting efforts. In fact, I think a woman from Two Rivers is Assistant Vice President of Direct Deposit. To fans like us it seems easy, but there's a lot that goes into this whole NFL franchise thing.

Oppy's picture

There's also a bonus structure that is primarily based around Jack Links brand Beef Jerky payouts.

It's pretty hush-hush, and I can't say anymore about it. There's a guy on my thursday night cribbage team at a local tavern whose cousin's wife works for the Packers, and he knows all the dirty laundry inside 1225.

I shouldn't have said anything. Forget I mentioned it.

Gman1976's picture

I think our defense would be ranked higher if it wasn’t on the field so long. It’s amazing that it makes the adjustments needed for the second half and has kept us in games; but the offense just sputters along with so much talent. It’s mind boggling that we can’t score consistently. The answer is obvious isn’t it?

Tundraboy's picture

Yes it is.

Tundraboy's picture

"Rodgers is in his 11thseason as a starter and he still isn’t getting 100 percent autonomy at the line of scrimmage? Rodgers has always gotten ripped for his lack of trust in Green Bay’s wideouts, but how much trust does McCarthy have in his future Hall of Fame quarterback? And since McCarthy doesn’t trust him with the entire offense, that isn’t going to instill confidence on a team that clearly needs it."

Much like a parent that doesn't completely trust his child, except that the child's now 21. And like a parent you have to be secure in yourself and in the job you have done already.

GVPacker's picture

Every coach has a shelf life and Mike McCarthy is Stale and predictable! Taking this long to move on from Dom Capers and lets not forget Sean Slocum, and his replacement Ron Zook! Two Hall of Fame QB's and only 1 SB Championship in12 seasons is not good enough. The Fat Lady is getting ready to sing! It's time to move on!

cheesehead1's picture

IMO, we need the next to win the next 3. Time for Nick Perry to make an appearance!

Since '61's picture

Who?

Rick F's picture

Miami is 31 against the run. If they don’t have 150 yards rushing MM is just being stubborn. You design game plans to opponents it is simple . 12 will get his too in play action with 17 and 83 getting deep on shot plays. They should be the bread and butter every week.

The TKstinator's picture

You can say that again!

Rick F's picture

Miami is 31 against the run. If they don’t have 150 yards rushing MM is just being stubborn. You design game plans to opponents it is simple . 12 will get his too in play action with 17 and 83 getting deep on shot plays. They should be the bread and butter every week.

The TKstinator's picture

You did!
You DID say that again!

Colin_C's picture

If you get the chance check out this breakdown by Brett Kollmann on the offense. He knows his stuff, and pretty much confirms everything we've said about the issues this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bax9C8damOU

Tarynfor12's picture

Excellent video.

packerbackerjim's picture

Excellent video which pretty much nails it!

buddrow53's picture

Need to see if Brett would like to be an offensive play caller, I see a need in the Frozen Tundra.

Migh have to take a paycut

splitpea1's picture

The MM loyalists will blame the media for pointing these truths out.

LeotisHarris's picture

Which media do you think they'll blame first? I attended the MM Loyalist Meeting last week in Mukwanago, and the message there was to only talk to Rob Demovsky and Jason Wilde. That's just a local chapter though. Do you have insight on national blaming strategy? Please share!

Rak47's picture

Yes, BK is very good indeed at breaking down video, I've been a subscriber to his youtube channel for the past couple years now. And when he does make a mistake in his judgment he's not afraid to admit it. This video illustrates what many on here have been saying for years and that is McCarthy is clueless and stubborn and his offense is inflexible. This is what Brett Hundley suffered through last year, McCarthy's inability to tailor his offense to his players.

Oppy's picture

The points made by the video are all valid.

The assumption that it's MM who wants to put it all on Rodgers' back and make it complicated instead of simple is what I question.

Example, analysis says it would be advantageous to use motion to help get WRs in favorable match ups and read the defense. As others here discussed a few days ago, Rodgers himself has said he doesn't like using motion because he feels he can read defenses better against a static formation. So is this MM, or Rodgers, shunning the use of motion?

Example, analysis said MM's straight up refusal to run or even adjust to having Hundley as QB last year is proof of his not making it easy on Rodgers, yet, MM continually talks about needing more rushing attempts, and in fact, last year when Hundley was under center, the Packers WERE running the ball more.. to the point where I was begging MM on sundays to let Hundley pass the ball to find out what he's got. Look at rushing attempts in 2017 with Hundley under center. Regardless if Williams or Jones was in the game, the primary RB was getting roughly 20 touches each week. Is that because Hundley isn't as good of a QB? If so, that shows MM's willingness to adapt to make things easier on his QB. If the obvioius increase in rush attempts was a function of Hundley not checking out of running plays as often as Rodgers does, that indicates that MM attempts to run the ball more and it is indeed Rodgers who "makes things complicated" or "refuses to help himself out", in terms of utilization of the run, not MM.

I still believe that it is Rodgers himself to a great extent that is putting it all on his own back and making it hard for himself.

PAPackerbacker's picture

Well done. Brett nailed it in this video.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Cobb is done.

The TKstinator's picture

West was won.

The TKstinator's picture

Things I’ve done.

The TKstinator's picture

Tons of fun.

The TKstinator's picture

All for one.

LeotisHarris's picture

Erm, ah... um, ...Fresh Start With Bart?

Damn, I suck at this.

Oppy's picture

Well done, son.

Demon's picture

All of you that are advocating keeping MM simply because you dont know who would be better are delerious.

Put it in perspective people. I used to own a 1973 Chevy impala, great car! 350 chevy motor, auto trans . Those were bullet proof! When i finally decided to get rid of it in 1985 i didnt have to. Still ran like a champ! There were no grarantees that whatever i bought was going to be any better. The impala outlived its usefulness. Much like MM has too.

Its time to move on from the old plain and simple. I dont k ow who is going to be better than MM. Thats part of life, things change you either change with them or you get left behind.

Can anyone here say that MM has done a good job of anything this year? I cant!
The pro MM people say there is nothing wrong with the playcalling, its the execution thats been lacking. You may be right to some extent, however if you ask a player to do something they cant or something they are no good at it was a bad play call. Ie asking Bulaga to block Mack one on one vs the bears. Asking Cobb to run go routes. Who here thinks the Safety play vs the Rams was the best call that was available?

Imo only at his best MM was below average. And his best was 8 years ago.

Packers fans have been duped by the packers front office. Knee jerk reactions are wrong, slow and steady, stay the course, trust the process. What has that gotten us? It got us piss poor drafts from Ted Thompson, got us 4 years too many of MM and his horseshit coaching staff that he himself said he needed to clean up.

Oppy's picture

Just out of curiousity, what was the car that replaced the '73 Impala in 1985? Please tell me it wasn't a Honda 4-door Accord.

Oppy's picture

.

Nononsense's picture

What ever happened to the less volume, more creativity mantra that MM touted for so long. I can only remember 1 play all year that I would consider creative and it was a passing TD to Montgomery out of a diamond formation inside the 10 yrd line. Don't remember the exact makeup of said formation, player wise but it was brilliant and we haven't seen it since.

Ustabeayooper's picture

The writing was on the wall when MM was given the "kiss of death" one year contract extension. The same thing was given to Sherman before TT sacked him. Our team is lucky to have 3 wins. The continued failure to start fast has doomed our SB chances for the past seasons and MM has to be held responsible. A loss in September is the same as a loss in November. You shouldn't have to RELAX or run the table every year.A sense of urgency should start with game one and please quit telling the fans that the team hasn't "found it's identity". Our identity is 3 wins, 4 losses, and 1 tie.

The TKstinator's picture

I wear a tie every week on casual Fridays just to mess with people.

flackcatcher's picture

I bow to your greatness.......:)

byu.tech's picture

mccarthy is for the packers what jeff fisher was for the rams.
but we have the mummy mark murphy so nothing will change.

Rossonero's picture

"Good players can't overcome bad coaching."

- Bill Belichick

LeotisHarris's picture

"It's important to have at least 2 large bowel movements daily."

-- Abraham Lincoln

The TKstinator's picture

“Otherwise, you’re full of...”
—The TKstinator

Demon's picture

Everyone on here was excited to hear that Pettine was going to tailor his system to best utiliize the strenghts of his players. What a novel concept that is.

Could he possibly teach MM to do that radical idea?

Rossonero's picture

I wish. But it's MM's way or the highway.

splitpea1's picture

The defense has been playing better than their statistical ranking given their lack of productive OLBs and and the turnover (no pun intended) in the secondary. It just shows you what a fresh approach can do, along with a speedy corner (finally!).

The TKstinator's picture

#23 is #1!!
If GB can add 2 rushers like they added 23 and 37 this year, Katie bar the door!

badaxed's picture

PATS "Daniels" for new coach.

PAPackerbacker's picture

I think the Packers have lost their identity a bit. They need a HC to challenge each player and hold them accountable for bad decisions and performance, not just hold one or 2 players accountable while the rest of the team gets excuses from the HC as to why they did not perform well. It just seems to me like everyone else is waiting for the other guy to make the play instead of taking the initiative to make it themselves. On defense the team does not swarm to the ball and stands around while just 1 or 2 players make the tackles. The team has become complacent on both sides of the ball. And this responsibility rests on the shoulders of the coaching staff.

Oppy's picture

I don't see the criticism of the defense.
I think they are on the right track defensively and are starting to hit their stride. They still need a player or two but the effort is there.

The TKstinator's picture

The D def has some horses; lots of premium picks recently.

DD's picture

The article is finally correct. Failure to change and a new playbook will spell MM end in Green Bay. Too bad its so late in coming. Rodgers best years have been wasted. Yes. Rodgers will still be feared, but father time will catch up up. Exceptions: Brady, Brees.

DD's picture

Hard to believe MM watches game film and still remains that stupid! Elementary rule of problem solving, if it doesn't work then change and try until a solution is found that solves the problem. Years wasted by management.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Well, I disagree with most of you on MM. The problem in GB is Higher than MM. Start with Mark Murphy who came from the powerhouse of Northwestern, & the (Head Guy) who put together this mess. I like Joe Philbin, but he isn't a coach. The fans in Miami were laughing at us when we took him back. You may remember my post on that. 3 years ago I posted they should Trade or Cut Mathews, & got tore apart for it. I said they would throw $50 Million more at him & then cut him. Cobb hasn't been the same since he got hurt 2 years ago. Adams never was as good as most thought. Bulaga didn't play 4 minutes his 1st 4 yr's, & not much more since. Bak is a pretty good LT, but he is no Chad Clifton. As I've posted a few times, They have yet to replace Clifton or Tausher. They've destroyed the OL, & then payed a guy who is put together with nuts & bolts $130 Million Dollars. I haven't even got to the Defense they've played with for the past 8 yr's. What do you expect MM & Rodgers to do with this Make-Shift outfit. They never replaced the WR core with anything close to what they had. It looks to me that they finally have a couple of receivers & a couple of DB's who will amount to something, but I don't think it will happen in AR's time. MM shoulders some of the blame, but he can only coach what he has. I'm not sure he has the Best QB anymore. Like I said a week or 2 ago. Rodgers gets a good share of the blame here as well. All he was interested in was stuffing his own pocket. I don't really blame him for that, but he could have left a few Mill on the table. I don't think it would have hurt him any. I'm not even going to go to Tyrone Williams & the Defense. Can't any of you see it???
LVT

KamThomps's picture

Oh my heavens! Perhaps, MM got dinged on his noggin, 'cause he was having them run that ball, faking plays, and letting them win for a change. Please, let this be a permanent condition.

gerenrique's picture

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