Cory's Corner: Jordan Love Isn't Getting A Fair Shake

With so many things failing all around him, how do the Packers make any decisions on Love?

Do the Packers know what they have in Jordan Love? Because I sure as heck don’t. 

The Packers looked lost and bewildered once again as the Vikings beat them 24-10 at Lambeau Field on Sunday. They were penalized 11 times for 99 yards — this team has now been penalized 52 times for 424 yards.

That’s a complete lack of discipline, which is a failure of the coaching staff. The Packers are now in the middle of a four-game losing streak by falling to 2-5, arguably one of the worst teams in the NFL. 

“We’re a mess right now,” said Packers coach Matt LaFleur. 

He’s not wrong. This team is an unprepared tire fire. Yet, there are so many people calling for Love to sit. But that isn’t the answer either. Who exactly is Love throwing to? There were four drops on Sunday — and the majority of those came in big spots.

Not to mention, we still don’t know who the No. 1 receiver is. It’s supposed to be Christian Watson, but can a guy that has only played in four games be considered the guy? Then there’s Romeo Doubs. Can a guy that’s only catching 53 percent of the throws his way be the guy? Then there’s Jayden Reed, who I personally think will have a solid impact on this league, but he’s still a rookie and trying to figure everything out. This was the biggest gamble the Packers faced by not having at least one seasoned veteran in the receiver room to help out a quarterback starting his first NFL season. 

Then there’s running back. Aaron Jones is one of the more dynamic players in the league, but he injured his hamstring back on Sept. 10 and since then he’s either been out or has been limited by a coaching pitch count. AJ Dillon is solid as a change-of-pace back, especially when the weather gets nasty, but he has proven this year that he cannot carry an offense as the bell cow back. After seeing what he did vs. the Titans in 2020 in the cold of December with 21 carries for 124 yards and two scores, I thought the Packers might have something there. He just isn’t fast enough and he has second-guessed himself on what hole to hit, instead of reading and reacting. 

I cannot forget about the left tackle position. With today’s pass-fancy game, the left tackle has become the No. 2 most important position  on a team behind the franchise quarterback. I think it’s safe to say that Rasheed Walker is not the best bet at left tackle and Yosh Nijman is a solid fill-in, but not the long-term answer the Packers want. Basically the Packers swung for the fences with David Bakhtiari, hoping that his 32-year-old body and his ailing knees would hold up. That theory obviously swung and missed and now the Packers don’t have a left tackle on the roster that they can look to for the future. 

All this doesn’t mean that Love hasn’t done anything wrong. His reaction times need to speed up. He has a serious problem throwing the deep ball and he needs to trust his legs more, which will open up more things downfield. 

Oh and there’s one more thing: the scheme. LaFleur hasn’t trusted Love. Instead of the fun bells and whistles that you get presnap or with misdirection, you get a smorgasbord of out routes and running plays between the tackles. 

This has been Love’s first season starting, but he has not gotten a fair shake. Can you judge a guy objectively if his supporting cast just isn’t good enough?

-------------------

Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn

9 points
 

Comments (243)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
NickPerry's picture

October 31, 2023 at 06:32 am

"LaFleur hasn’t trusted Love. Instead of the fun bells and whistles that you get presnap or with misdirection, you get a smorgasbord of out routes and running plays between the tackles."

IMO Cory hit on several excellent points in this starting with the penalties, drops, inexperience, the O-Line, and MLF's BORING offense. There's NOTHING "All Gas No Brakes" or "Illusion of Complexity" to what the Packers are running right now...NONE at all.

The PERFECT example was put on full display for Packers fans to endure in the first series, and it got progressively worse after that. We got penalties, that boring Dillon up the middle play that NEVER works for ONE yard, and we also got to see Josh Meyers totally miss on a block, let his man destroy the play AND drive, and Meyers who whiffed on his block land right on his ass. Just where he spends most of the game.

I'm having my doubts about Love myself, but with THIS coaching staff, THIS offense, and the fact he doesn't have even one proven pass catcher to help not only the offense but the entire WR room, makes it IMPOSSIBLE to get a read on Love. At least a fair one.

Last night watching Monday Night Football, Aikman and Buck talked about the Lions coaching staff and how MANY of the key position coaches and/or coordinators actually PLAYED in the NFL.

So, my question is when you look at the Packers staff, how many of those future HC's (NOT!!!) played in the NFL or at least have you ever heard of as a player? I mean give me a break. Take a look for yourself and you'll see at least part of the problem. We'll part of MANY problem's.

https://www.packers.com/team/coaches-roster/

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RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 07:09 am

"We got penalties, that boring Dillon up the middle play that NEVER works for ONE yard, and we also got to see Josh Meyers totally miss on a block, let his man destroy the play AND drive, and Meyers who whiffed on his block land right on his ass. Just where he spends most of the game."

I watched a replay of that play on twitter last night. Runyan doubles the outside with Tom and doesn't go inside to double with Myers. Myers misses the block, but it almost looked like he was expecting help from Runyan with the way he fired off. At the end of the play Tom is looking at Runyan like why are you helping me. We can sit here and blame Myers all day long, but truthfully we don't know know what the blocking assignments are. I think there is a good chance that Runyan went the wrong way.

10 points
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fireball's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:55 am

Vince Lombardi never played in the NFL.

7 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:08 am

good to know. Not sure what that has to do with my post, but ok.

2 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 31, 2023 at 07:25 pm

ah ha...maybe so...but did you know that the Packers are "THE YOUNGEST TEAM IN THE NFL"...bet ya never heard that before....

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 06:17 am

No reason not to play well. Lots of rookies are doing great this year. What's the difference? We don't have a coach that's worth a damn. (Tom Clements and RB being possible exceptions to that)

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 06:13 am

Myers and JRJ BOTH blew that play. At least according to Kuhn. I believe his analysis with Dusty to be correct.

Really basic stuff.

With an O line that's a mess like this you can't evaluate a QB or a RB either. However, the O line isn't dropping passes. Should we credit JL10 for ever putting anything on target through chaos like that? His timing is off, often throwing late. Not only is that understandable but this is what we all said in preseason we could not afford, and could ruin his development by creating bad habits due to being jittery in the pocket being advisable.

So yes, that makes what should be easy completions much harder to catch. In short, nothing on O works without a dominant O line. And true to form, they can't do anything on offense.

Maybe the coaches will focus on the fundamental problems with the O line? Because it's much deeper than just changing out one position.

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Guam's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:36 am

Hey NP: It's "Myers", not "Meyers". Otherwise thumbs up!

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 06:18 am

There's gotta be an Oscar Meyer weiner joke in here somewhere. We've got nothing but jokes.

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Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:53 am

Did he not trust Rodgers last year? This O is remarkably similar to its predecessor despite that being anemic and the change at WB. The difference is the OL has regressed. Where is the illusion of complexity that we all thought Rodgers nixed? He’s not here and it’s not either. This O is as unimaginative as last year’s was.

The Dillon run is not going to succeed often with this OL. Teams have long figured out that Myers will whiff completely at times but that he can be pushed back into the runner or passer regularly. They know Runyon can be overpowered too. Placed together, that multiplies the vulnerabilities.

This is why we see runners getting taken down at handoff so often and pickets collapsing backwards in the passing game. Jones has the ability to squirt through at times, but he’s the exception to that rule and it’s not s recipe for his consistent success either.

It seems like Stenovich built this OL around Myers. Myers better games are barely exceeding viable back up ratings. This OL is conceptually flawed. It’s not just Walker over Nijman. It starts with Myers. It includes Tom at RT. Tom is our best OL at this point (though Jenkins was much better last week than he has been this season). However, Tom is miscast.

Teams have figured out that you don’t have to beat his feet, you can just move him either back to his QB or yo create an inside lane. That’s where the multiple pressures he is giving up each week have arisen. It’s a waste of talent and it is allowing teams to get pressure they’re from power not stars and to free their best rushers to attack elsewhere.

The disaster of our OL is from the core premises it is built on by the looks of it. I hopefully don’t need to say much about Walker over Nijman, but on the blind side of all places with a bee QB? That’s insane. This OL is flawed conceptually and, per experts, technically too. If not drastically shaken up the results won’t change.

If the results don’t change then we won’t run the ball to victory very often even against poor run Ds. Similarly, we don’t get a workable environment to really start getting a rational grasp on Love. No QB us going to thrive when we can’t run and the O line either whiffs on route 1 or retreats meets him 5 yards in the back field regularly.

It’s not rocket science. It is repeated every game. The result is that I’ve looks less decisive and confident weekly. Regardless of how hood he is or isn’t, that tells us his key coaches are retarding his progress, not developing it. Certainly other teams, as they did last year, seem to have a pretty good handle on what this team is trying to do on O as well.

Predictability of intent as well as predictable flaws leads to the first halves we see, exacerbated by drops, penalties and other errors of inexperience. As Wahle and others note, none of this changes week-to-week. None of these failings alone make it this bad, but together they compound it. We improve when playing desperation ball (somewhat). That should tell us all we need to alone about the impact of the coaching versus the talent.

It’s time to stop looking at the trees and see the Forrest. This O is rotten from conception up in virtually every facet. No player is going to thrive or develop effectively in this environment and thus judging their upside is impossible.

3 points
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dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:49 pm

"It’s time to stop looking at the trees and see the Forrest."

Gregg? There's a lot here that looks like the Forrest Gregg years...all they need is one Charles Martin suplex to confirm it all...

2 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 06:28 am

In short, #28 up the middle should work reliably. It can't possibly with this disaster that is our O line. And the problem is more basic than individual players, it's footwork with all of them, except Tom.
Which tells me that since glaring fundamental errors are tolerated by the coaches and never corrected, that Tom's footwork is also not as good as it could be and likely getting worse.

Scheme will not correct that. Butkus will not correct that. Is Stenovitch capable of it? Does MLF even see it? RB?

We can't expect Mike Murphy to weigh in on this, but what about Gutey? Does he see all his picks being ruined by failure to coach fundamentals?

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fireball's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:56 am

Vince Lombardi never played in the NFL.

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dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:49 pm

He's never been in my kitchen, either.

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murf7777's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:00 am

I know you and many want Mlf fired and I question if that is the right move. IMO, this roster has a lack of talent and/or too young that make far too many mistakes. As a Coach can you stop a player from missing a catch or running a wrong route, not making a tackle, holding, false start….etc. I think not having enough veterans on this team shows with the amount of mistakes that happen. I stated many times during the off season they needed some experience in the pass catcher room. I think it’s funny when people state Mlf play calling stinks. If players don’t execute the play how do you know? It’s easy to state a play was bad after the fact. Reality when it does work people state what a great play call.

Back to Coaching, I’ve challenged folks to debate whether a Coach should be fired when there is a very young roster and/or lack of talent. Certainly, Packers fall into this category. Belechick is in a similar situation. Should he be fired? How about Shanahan, who arguably has the best roster loses 3 in a row. No excuse for that. Maybe it’s play calling. Until, you scrutinize every teams coach, roster and play calling, etc….can you be a good judge of your own coach. Obviously, with a better roster/QB Mlf showed he can Coach with 3 years in a row with 13 wins. What was funny then is I remember some of the same people criticizing Rodgers for not running Mlf plays. It seems some people unfairly criticize due to lack of knowledge or seeking the glass half empty scenario.

Campbell’s coaching wasn’t even talked about until he started winning, now he is the messiah….lol. My concern about firing Mlf is you become a franchise who goes through coaches every few years and we fall back to the 70’ & 80’s. I know people might laugh at that statement, but I believe conviction in continuity is more important than the grass is greener on the other side. There’s a reason the top Franchises have the least turnover, they don’t allow their fans to dictate their path and stay the course through easy and tough times. Stick with Mlf at least through another year to see how he develops this young team.

0 points
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dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:42 am

" I think it’s funny when people state Mlf play calling stinks. If players don’t execute the play how do you know? "

It's not that the play-calls themself stink...most of them worked CHI-NO, but the league has adjusted. LaF has not. Someone else called this the "Groundhog's Day" offense because they just to those same things over and over again with little or no positive to go with. The players might not execute well, but why isn't he looking for different things that they CAN execute? Even 12 last year said they needed to "simplify".

"Back to Coaching, I’ve challenged folks to debate whether a Coach should be fired when there is a very young roster and/or lack of talent. "

I come back to the fact that when Murphy hired LaF, it was into a very different dynamic (a veteran team) with a QB that Murphy was looking to pair with a very particular person/personality type. The guy Murphy was targeting was going to fit that very narrow niche, and he decided that was LaF.

That said, the team looks nothing like 2019 now. It's young. It's lacking in proven playmakers at the NFL level. It's very possibly undertalented. While LaF might've looked like the guy in 2019, he might be woefully outmatched for rebuilding Packers 2023 and beyond...that presents a very different challenge and likely requires a very different skillset.

If there's a reason to let LaF go either in-season or post-season, it's because he's not suited to run a team that's in the process of being rebuilt and needs a specific approach to groom young players and build on those who can cut it. I think they need to make a very frank assessment on that and act decisively.

"Campbell’s coaching wasn’t even talked about until he started winning, now he is the messiah"

He's very much a CEO head coach. He sets a tone, but lets his assistants do their jobs. He's by all accounts relatively uninvolved in play-calling. I fully expect both his assistants to be high-end HC candidates this offseason. His OC, Johnson, was sought-after last year, but he decided to bide his time and stay for another year. He's gambling on himself and giving himself a chance to be the top dog in the pool and have his choice of landing spots. It looks like it will pay off.

That said, Campbell's ongoing success will have a lot to do with the quality of those next OC/DC guys. I think they built that team the right way (from the lines out), they've invested in players to fill holes. Even if their next OC/DCs are not as good, they have players who will be in position to make plays because the lines will be good.

8 points
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murf7777's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:46 am

Thanks for the comments Dobber, some nice points. BUT, to state that MLF isn’t or might not be the right coach for a young team vs a veteran team is an opinion without justification. Time will tell, you might be right, but I think it’s far too early to make that judgement.

Regarding Campbell’s style of coaching; There are many ways to be successful at coaching, his style is one of those. We will see in the long run because that is what matters. There are many “flash in the pan”, players and coaches in the history of NFL, but few who succeed long term.

IMO, needs more time to determine whether his style can be successful whether that be a veteran team with a HC at QB or a young team like today. Not many coaches would be successful with this team he has to deal with. All you have to do is look at coaching records. The ones who have had long term great success are the ones who also had a HOF QB. Go back and take a look at some of the greatest Coaches and check out their records with and without a HOF QB and you will see that most of them had losing records without one. Dan Reeves was great with Elway and not without, same with Shannahan. George Seifert is another one, the list goes on and on like that.

0 points
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dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:41 pm

"to state that MLF isn’t or might not be the right coach for a young team vs a veteran team is an opinion without justification. "

Not to be argumentative, but if I HAD said that, then I would actually agree. I don't know enough. What I said was that they (meaning the team/organization) needed to make a frank assessment on the situation and act decisively. The Packers certainly had a quick hook with Ray Rhodes and, once things started to fade, with Mike Sherman (although the Sherman dynamic was unique).

Otherwise, I tried to couch my comments such that they were strictly in a "might" and "if" vein rather than asserting I knew for a fact.

Regarding your last paragraph: very few coaches and GMs get to retire on their own terms. The clock and the nature of cyclical rosters and success almost always tolls before then. I like your choice of Seifert--in many ways, I think of him and his route when I think of LaF....of course, Seifert won titles... ;)

1 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 07:09 am

Murf, on MLF:

13-3 for the regular season is a great record. Look at the losses; he never adjusted. Look at the playoff losses, he always got out coached.
Give him his accolades for 39 wins in his first three seasons but 0 more time is necessary to determine that MLF cannot adjust when nothing is working. Which means we know he's wrong for this team, and is ruining all the talent on the roster. Not single handedly, but he isn't stopping anyone else from doing so.

This is purely academic as nothing will change unless the board has an emergency meeting and removes MM immediately. Consensus is that nothing even remotely like that will happen, so you will have all this season and probably next to see that "I'm right and you're wrong."

We all just hope that this doesn't turn into decades of mediocrity, at best. Da Bares only have two wins, so we don't suck worse than they do. Yet. And our second game against them is at home. Yet they are improving and the Packers are regressing, so on the current trajectory we should expect to lose that game too.

1 points
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Guam's picture

October 31, 2023 at 02:43 pm

Good point about matching the coach to the situation Dobber.

My sense is that LaFleur and his offensive staff are scheme oriented coaches who don't focus much on fundamentals. Given the youth of this roster, that may be a mismatch. Too often this year I have watched receivers run wrong routes, start to run before catching a pass and drop it, fail to contest "jump balls", and not come back to the QB when the play is busted - all fundamentals for receivers. Similarly for O-linemen I have watched far too many offside penalties, illegal formation penalties, missed assignments (blocking the wrong guy), and poor footwork/balance in run blocking - all fundamentals for O-linemen.

LaFleur may be a better coach than we think, but just not a good match for this roster.

2 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 07:16 am

Guam:

looking desperately for redemption somewhere, maybe MLF could cook up scheme while letting position coaches teach fundamentals and someone else handle play calling. Last season I was hoping MLF would realize he's in over his head and isn't capable of handling HC duties while playcalling.

The problem with using MLF for scheme is he's proven he can't or won't adjust what he tries to what the team can and can't do. Surely he can draw up plays. I'm beginning to question if he should be given a larger role than just that much.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:52 am

A coaching staff can ruin as well as make. The current mess is clearly heading in the direction of impacting development and careers. That is the single biggest reason to call time on
it now.

No. Get LaFleur out, change the attitudes and expectations and lead. It won’t save this season, but it might change the coming ones.

2 points
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dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:57 am

If LaF is truly overmatched and truly incapable of developing this team, then he has to go. There's often a hangover that goes with bad coaching and bad play. Bad habits have to be unlearned and broken (or those players let go). If LaF can't get it done, they can't linger on him.

Fully expect that he'll be hired almost immediately if the Packers let him go. This league recycles coaches and assistants at an alarming rate...but if he's successful somewhere else, it doesn't mean the Packers made a mistake.

7 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:10 am

Would it really bother you that another team might have him as a both a recruiter and manger of coaches, as a leader for the culture his teams display or the offenses he’s crafted?

I suppose if you really think Rodgers did not take us as far as He and Adams could, but since Adams’ departure that looks increasingly dubious and since Rodgers’ departure the myth of a man held back by his QB is pretty much in tatters. More so than I for one imagined possible.

I would be happy if the Bears hired him. That says it all.

4 points
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murf7777's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:48 am

“I would be happy if the Bears hired him. That says it all.“. NO, that says nothing, but your one person’s opinion.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:58 am

And it says all that matters as far as I’m concerned, as stated.

Why not try giving a positive justification why that would be a loss? What is the reason we should keep LaFleur? What does he bring to this team that stands out and says we will be worse without him now and in future?

Go on, I’m fascinated to learn why you think he’s even an OK head coach now we’ve seen him post Rodgers and Adams and the benefit of continuity across all levels of coaching.

Have at it or accept the need for change by default. Good grief, some here deserve the 70s.

5 points
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murf7777's picture

October 31, 2023 at 11:16 am

Sure, my thoughts are his past record, which is an objective viewpoint, even thou it was with Arod, a HOF QB. I think it is very difficult to determine whether Mlf can Coach at a high level or not with an inexperienced team with an unproven QB. It’s easy to be critical, shit I could find many things wrong, but that is with most inexperienced team. You can even do that with great teams.

What I don’t want to see is our team go thru Coaching staffs every 3 to 4 years like many losing franchises do. You need to have patience it’s a great virtue to have:). Quite frankly, I’m not qualified to determine whether Packers should fire him or not. That seems to hold true for most GM’s & Owners of the NFL Fracnhises as well, cuz they sure seem to make bad hire and fire decisions.

The reality it’s extremely difficult to win in the NFL, especially when you don’t have a great QB. That is why there are so few coaches who last 10 years or more with any one team. IMO, the coach gets far too much credit and/or blame at this level. Now, when you are talking HS or College I believe the Coach is much more important to the success of that team.

-2 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:11 pm

As I expected: the record of Rodgers and Adams. I rest my case.

LaFleur won’t survive the season. Go listen to Herman’s podcast today in this site. I just have and it’s more damning than I have been. The end is coming. I feel sorry for fans of any team that takes him on at HC.

1 points
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murf7777's picture

October 31, 2023 at 06:06 pm

I’ve listened to Herman many times. I like him, I just don’t agree with his analysis. He’s right and wrong at times just like all of us. Another man’s opinion that’s all.

You miss my point go look at all great coaches, they did it with a HOF type QB. Many of them had losing records when they didn’t have the man when they ventured to another team. Look it up, it’s facts, not subjective opinions.

0 points
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barutanseijin's picture

October 31, 2023 at 05:16 pm

You’re so sure you’re right, just like sh. Two peas in a pod. Boring, monomaniacal, borderline ocd… Maybe try gardening or fishing or woodworking or something.

0 points
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dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:44 pm

I'm increasingly of the opinion that it was really mostly Adams and his rapport with ARod. I would argue Adams was propping 12 up those last 2 years.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

October 31, 2023 at 02:48 pm

Not working for Jimmy G...

-1 points
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dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 04:01 pm

Adams got plenty of targets early in the season...but granted Jimmy G has been awful all season, though, and playing hurt.

2 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 07:28 am

💯

We also have to look realistically at comparing JL10 to the best QBs in the coming draft. Earning the #1 draft pick or trading up for a top spot, we could upgrade. I think that's obviously true. Could we have a SB contending roster while keeping JL10?

I don't see how that's knowable.

Marvin Harrison Jr is a single player who can elevate a whole team. Passing on him if he's available would be a generational mistake. We'd still need a dominant O line. Our needs at DB increased yesterday. As much as I'd like to see #31 Wilson given more touches, (and to have Goodson back) questions at RB remain. We need more positions of need in the draft like we need another hole in the head.

The question is more like: would a best in class QB or WR be utilized on this team, or wasted? Maybe that's best answered by focusing on offense next draft for a change. Focus on improving the D coaches while sitting pat with the current roster, even if it proves to be the team's weakness.

Also, while I know nothing about our WR position coaches, it seems the TE coaches aren't up to the task. The same could be observed about our strength and conditioning staff. Certainly close scrutiny is warranted.

1 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 06:45 am

Murf, you're using youth as an excuse entirely too much. Yes, the WR room was supposed to pick up from the established veterans last year. No, that was not enough. Yes, this team has always had a succession plan, and that's been broken in many position groups. Why isn't Bakh in there, giving this O line pointers on technique and fundamental flaws? Just one example. Although Jenkins should be able to do that.

Mercedes Lewis is another, I really wish they had kept him, even if only for this reason. Although his blocking would help, too.

Those are the main positions without veterans to lean on for experience and leadership. This doesn't begin to explain the mess this season has become. And I don't believe there's any lack of talent; there's talent all over the field.

Why aren't they playing well? Coaching is the only thing remaining after the process of elimination. Great coaching can get players to perform above their talent level, in all three phases of the game. At least 2 of ours are playing far below their ability; that's incompetent coaching. MLF admits to it, every week.

Week 9 coming up. Last year they had made some obviously needed adjustments by then, which is nowhere near good enough for this league. And they're regressing, not having adjusted yet.

Wahle and Kuhn as position coaches or outside consultants seems like a no brainer. MM apparently tolerates no changes, but is fine with losing. Can this team eek out one more win this season? Against who? Chicago is improving. Ending with 2 Ws and getting the #1 pick might be the best strategy ...

1 points
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Lphill's picture

October 31, 2023 at 06:43 am

Love should be showing a little more familiarity with the offense being here 3 years

4 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 31, 2023 at 06:52 am

Who knows what he's familiar with? They hardly use it. High school dives and swing passes is all they have time for.

7 points
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dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:13 am

I agree that the OL is a mess and that they're essentially public enemy #1 for the offense right now, and it's a long time since we've had to deal with an OL that was legitimately BAD in GB. There are ways to manage an OL that can't hold its blocks without holding and doesn't get a lot of push to give your offense fighting chance. Instead, it seems like the Packers are doubling down on the things this OL doesn't do well, namely inside zone and power-gap runs, and longer-developing routes (when they aren't doing defenses a favor and throwing 2-4 yard swing passes).

I find myself looking for this team to pitch out 33 to get in space, to take advantage of sweep/jet action either to freeze the defense (or actually run that play), to run more designed rollouts that cut the field in half and allow 10 to play on the move--but none of that is happening. That said, the fact that this offense can't consistently win on the edge so they can run more sweep and jet action, roll the pocket, etc., means that they're really in a hole.

8 points
8
0
crayzpackfan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 11:56 am

dobber
To your point, watching this team never trying anything at all new or anything that might actually work, it almost feels like these coaches already know they aren't gonna get fired so they can tank with youth as the excuse. Who knows? I have never seen this severe of legit incompetency at this level of sports occupation. This HAS to be contrived, right? Nothing could be so systemically daft while being allowed to continue. SMFH

3 points
3
0
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:47 pm

I don't think any coach worth his salt is going to tank. I think they realize that playing poorly just begets more poor play....if you mean that they're playing SO conservatively that they don't look like they're putting their best feet forward? Well, that's a different matter.

2 points
2
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 31, 2023 at 02:40 pm

sherman 2005,

0 points
1
1
stockholder's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:30 am

he knows the offense.
He just can't throw the ball
to execute it.

2 points
7
5
jannes bjornson's picture

October 31, 2023 at 11:49 am

If you allot a two pick for a running back, shouldn't the guy be a reliable bell cow? The Gutey crowd still keeps clawing at flimsy strings to pull up the curtain of doubt.

1 points
3
2
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:53 pm

I thought the Dillon pick was a stretch when they made it...but who's now the fool? The GM who picked him or the coach who continues to try to force him into a role that just doesn't suit him?

4 points
4
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 31, 2023 at 02:34 pm

We all scratched our heads after taking a guy who didn't even suit up his rookie campaign, but at least package a deal to move up for Higgins, Diggs or Taylor to present some type of urgency to bag the SB trophy. We all called for the trade Down from the 1st round, to accrue picks in the talent-rich, second round. Frightful.

1 points
2
1
Packerpasty's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:30 am

exactly...what was he doing for 3 years?? What were the coaches doing with him? I think maybe MLF doesn't trust Love because he's seen him for 3 years and knows he cant trust him...I watched for 3 years training camp, he has no "wow" factor at all...my bet is he wont be the Packer QB in 3 years...another rebuild...

0 points
3
3
Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:50 am

He’s definitely got some wow. Do you actually watch? The problem is what happens in between them.

4 points
4
0
TheVOR's picture

October 31, 2023 at 04:51 pm

I keep saying the same thing. Technically he's a 4 year Veteran football player! He's in his 4th season. I expected WAY MORE than this. He looks like any late round draft pick rookie! What he been doing for the last 3 seasons, playing tiddlywinks! Nothing to see here folks, no IT FACTOR on display. He's any mediocre backup QB in the NFL right now. Not only is he not a starting QB, he's not even going to be an adequate backup in this league.

A Pig in a Poke!

-2 points
1
3
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 07:29 am

I think he's very familiar with the offense.

Opposing defenses? Not so much. And I can't blame him, considering how often they're in his backfield.

2 points
2
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

November 01, 2023 at 11:58 am

Well said!

0 points
0
0
T7Steve's picture

October 31, 2023 at 06:50 am

Cory, as Nick says above "you hit the nail on the head". Love can't be judged playing with this team and its coaches.

Without a serviceable O-line even an MVP caliber QB looked pedestrian last season when the play calling was suspect too. We won 8 games WITH a healthy Aaron Jones (who wasn't utilized enough) and some veteran receivers.

Have to fix the line before even thinking about anything else or you're just wasting the youth of this team.

13 points
14
1
TKWorldWide's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:16 am

I’m with you on the O-line priority. Look what it’s done for Detroit. Has any team EVER regretted having a great O-line? Sure, receivers are shiny toys, (sorry, Marvin H),and they definitely have value, but the line has to come first.

Show me an offense that has excelled with a crap line. I’ll wait.

8 points
8
0
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:30 am

The loss of their LT (Trent Williams) and Deebo Samuel (who wasn't having a great year, but opposing DCs needed to account for him) has led to SF's current swoon and allowed teams to expose Brock Purdy for what he really is...which is a QB who isn't going to carry his team.

7 points
7
0
TKWorldWide's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:21 am

Right!
Suddenly without Samuel, Williams, and CMC (albeit temporarily), Mr. Irrelevant looked human.
Then we have Love: without 69, 33, and…anyone in Deebo’s neighborhood, and folks are calling for Clifford.
Oh…kay.

Also, SF’s defense is a little better than GB’s. So there’s that, as well.

6 points
7
1
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:50 am

" folks are calling for Clifford."

The most popular guy on any roster: the backup QB.

7 points
7
0
TKWorldWide's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:52 pm

On any roster mired in losing. 😉

1 points
1
0
MainePackFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:40 am

"Show me an offense that has excelled with a crap line. I’ll wait."

21 Packers- Record 13-4

LT- Jenkins- 8 starts
RG- Runyan 16 starts
C - Myers- 8 starts
LG- Newman 16 starts
RT- Billy Turner 13 starts

L Patrick - 13 starts
D Kelly - 4 starts

-2 points
2
4
Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:49 am

How did that end and who were the skill players? That wasn’t a triumph, that was an opportunity wasted.

5 points
5
0
MainePackFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:22 am

"Show me an offense that has excelled with a crap line. I’ll wait."

Nothing was mentioned about how the season ended or who the skill players were. That would be a different conversation. The O-line then is very similar to what we have now, other than Newman isn't good enough to crack this O-line and Tom is a better tackle than Turner.

-1 points
2
3
jannes bjornson's picture

October 31, 2023 at 02:53 pm

Why isn't Jenkins playing LT now?

1 points
2
1
MainePackFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 05:52 pm

Good question.

-1 points
0
1
TKWorldWide's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:40 pm

Are you suggesting Royce Newman is less than stellar?

2 points
2
0
MainePackFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 01:04 pm

Lol. Perhaps ; )

2 points
2
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 07:34 am

Surely he's playing the best of his career.

Right where Myers should be. (Although maybe he'd earn the RG spot? That battle was never tested)

1 points
1
0
crayzpackfan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:05 pm

TK
I agree with your post 100%. However, you did ask the question. "Show me an offense that has excelled with a crap line. I’ll wait."
The Bengals went to the Super Bowl a couple years ago with an absolute garbage OL. Their QB was sacked like 16 times or something crazy like that in the playoffs alone.

1 points
2
1
TKWorldWide's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:51 pm

I remember when they took JaMaar Chase in the first round when (I think) most expected them to take Penei Sewell (who was supposed to be the top OT that year). In hindsight, I wonder if they’d do that again. Now of course Chase has been great but when you have a franchise QB like Burrow, I’d say you have to prioritize protecting him. Wasn’t it TT who said, “there are only so many 300 pounders on the planet”? (Something to that effect.)
Comes down to how the team feels about the players’ ceilings and what else they have on the roster. If it were me, I’d have gone with Sewell in rd 1 and looked at receivers in round 2. But that’s the fun, challenge and debate about the whole thing.

Regarding GB, IF they have to choose between the next Randy Moss and the next Joe Thomas, I’d go with Thomas. A pleasant dilemma to be in.

3 points
4
1
HawkPacker's picture

October 31, 2023 at 02:44 pm

I thought that as well at the time but now? Nope, when you can get a stud player, you get him. No question!

2 points
2
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 07:51 am

Very much should be in that position next year: Marvin Harrison Jr vs whoever O lineman. I'd go with MHJ and grab who I can lower. Gutey's already looking at trading up rather than down, although if we wind up with the #1 pick and don't draft a QB hopefully he would trade back and still get best in class.

Still some interesting stuff developing, despite the current disaster.

1 points
1
0
croatpackfan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 01:00 pm

Well, do you know that proverb: "The exception that confirms the rule!"

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 07:52 am

There he is! Good to see you back :)

2 points
2
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 31, 2023 at 02:46 pm

That's why he drafted Van Ness to be a part time player. Why snag an OT with #11, we'll hedge Bhaktiari can manage to show up for the weekend matches after rehabbing during the practice sessions and continue the musical chairs at RT, looking for Bulaga's replacement ( 2010 rookie fills in for a SB win).

1 points
2
1
Eldoublek's picture

October 31, 2023 at 03:05 pm

You guys are killing me. So we need a superbowl roster minus the QB to effectively judge talent? I submit Sam Howell. Dude is literally running for his life yet has a higher completion percentage. Stop already.

Daniel Jeremiah wrote: Love has great arm talent. Has good mobility and can throw many angles. But he tends to make poor decisions, throwing into double and triple coverage. He also is inaccurate on deep balls. Hmmmm, sounds familiar. I would add he has no touch, either. Every ball is a missed. Especially short throws.
You are who you are. He's unlikely to change. Could he eventually be good? Maybe. But he will never be great. He was drafted in the same round as Burrow, Herbert and Tua. The Pack moved up to get him. I'm afraid he's our MITch Trubisky. Eventually backing up someone. But, everyone will wait to evaluate what is already visible. What's 2025 QB class look like🤔

-2 points
1
3
TKWorldWide's picture

October 31, 2023 at 05:56 pm

Man, I hope not.
BTW, Deshone Kizer and Trubisky were both rated better prospects that year than Mahomes by PFW.
Yowza!

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 07:59 am

JL10's poor decisions amount to trying to thread needles. Whether he learned that from AR12 or had that already in College I don't know, but this mistake can be fixed by coaching. He should've been taught to run half the time, establish high probability plays (like to TEs and RBs) first, and only after all this was consistent behind a dominant O line to even take time to look for the deep play.

None of that has developed. Can't evaluate him. Doesn't need to be great to do that, either; just competent.

He's thrown absolute DIMES, so you can't say he isn't accurate. You can say he hasn't been consistent, for whatever reason(s). He's also thrown with touch. Again, not consistently, having missed on that too. As well as thrown too softly sometimes. At least he's not breaking fingers of every target he has.

Still, we do know upgrades do exist in the coming draft. Would that be a good use of our top pick? That's an interesting discussion, and I could argue either side.

1 points
1
0
Cheezehead72's picture

October 31, 2023 at 06:53 am

I totally agree with you that most of the blame goes to the coaches. That is why I have said Love needs an OC that is not the HC. Yes I know we have an OC in name only but MLF calls the plays. Love needs an OC who is developing the offensive game plan with him and talking to him to see what he needs, and then calls the plays that will fit him and the offense. I believe MLF does not have the time to do all that while being the HC. Also I respect Tom Clements because the has been a good QB Coach. The key words there are "has been". He is 70 years old and maybe the game has passed him by. Love needs a younger QB Coach with some QB experience.

I agree that you cannot evaluate Love fairly when the coaches are failing him and when there are so many injuries and bad play all over the field.

What they need to do will not happen. This is it, make Rich Bisaccia the HC and demote MLF to OC and play caller and see what happens until after Thanksgiving. Then put McGough in as QB to see what he can do and if they might want to keep him. All of this has to be explained to Love and the team to make sure everyone is aware of the plan.

The key here is to work to the future. I am not sold on drafting a QB in the 1st next year unless the right one falls in our lap. I hope we trade high priced and older players today.

2 points
7
5
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:08 am

"This is it, make Rich Bisaccia the HC and demote MLF to OC and play caller and see what happens until after Thanksgiving"

"Demotions" never happen. Out of season, some interim coaches have returned to coordinator roles, but usually the house-cleanings that come with hiring a new HC sweep out the majority (if not all) assistants. The most likely event is that LaF would either remain HC but forced to hand over playcalling to someone else (likely Stenavich as OC) or be canned if he refused (or just canned).

Everyone's enamored with Bisaccia--and he seems the likely internal interim HC candidate in case of a massive change--but I'd like to know what people think they're actually buying with him besides a bitchin' goatee. People want to say he saved the Raiders in 2021, but Gruden was a mess--who also was 3-2 when removed for non-football reasons--and Bisaccia went 7-5 after that. Arguably, that ship didn't "right itself", it just kept sailing on.

"Then put McGough in as QB to see what he can do and if they might want to keep him.....I am not sold on drafting a QB in the 1st next year"

I don't know if Love is the guy. I've always said that they need to assess quickly (which really means over a whole season in my view) whether he is or not, and then act. I agree with the sentiment that this team is failing in so many ways offensively right now that we really don't know much about anyone. Benching Love for a CFL guy who you signed off your PS and was never able to make a 53 means you're done with Jordan Love--that's the end of that path. It's rare for a team to "about face" on a decision like that. It makes him a focus of blame and a poison pill for the fan base, justly or not, and means they will need to be drafting a QB high in 2024.

8 points
8
0
Cheezehead72's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:49 am

I agree. So that is why I wrote that they will not demote MLF. I am not enamored with Rich but there is no one that can take over as HC on staff. I put the best option even though the option will not happen.

Now I will admit I do like ST Coordinators being hired as HC because they are already experienced at working with offense and defense and they will likely hire an OC and DC that will call plays.

There is no one on staff that is qualified to call plays from what I see other than MLF.

2 points
2
0
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:11 am

I'm with you on play-calling. Most of these young hotshots that get hired these days want to call their own plays. I'd rather they run the team and be a voice in the room in gameplanning, but let someone they trust run the offense/defense on game day. If it were me being responsible for the success of the whole team, I'd want to be actively present in all three phases.

I think a guy who comes up through STs isn't likely to be comfortable enough on O or D to scheme and call plays at the NFL level...so it creates a degree of insulation.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:35 am

I do not want LaFleur retained as OC. We have seen his offensive designs last year and this. We’ve seen weeks of scripted plays get no points or even time if possession. He’s a guy who comes up with some innovative one off plays, but I’m not even sure he’s a good OC. His record there is not actually watertight. At this point get him out of the building.

Ask Clements to stand in. Have Bissacia shake up the expectations and attitude as he did in Vegas. With Stenovich gone, we can see if Butkus is a victim or partner in crime, but he can be told to make changes and I think that won’t be a problem for Bissacia.

0 points
1
1
TKWorldWide's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:56 pm

I’d be curious what GB would look like with a defensive oriented HC. I’d also wonder how many young QB prospects really developed maximally under that type of structure. That HC better have a QB “guru” on his staff!

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 31, 2023 at 03:03 pm

Did Holmgren fail Favre? He had Brunell waiting in the wings, keeping pressure on the grifter to figure it out, or be benched. Competition, not a hug session..

0 points
0
0
Eldoublek's picture

October 31, 2023 at 03:09 pm

Thr OC doesn't throw the ball

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 08:07 am

Well only one traded away. Agreed that JL10 is in a bad position. A nightmare, if you will.

I think we already know what we have in #2. He's a GREAT backup for this organization, but he's not competing for the #1 role or position.

O line. Fix the O line! Fundamentals including footwork. It's called FOOTBALL. MLF isn't doing that, obviously. He can't even manage timeouts while playcalling, and that was obvious last season (if not before) Certainly he's not up to his current task, and probably isn't an NFL HC. Whether he could be competent as OC is TBD, but absolutely should be tried.

Unfortunately, we expect that will not happen, and nothing remotely like that will happen. Probably not next season, either.

2-15?

1 points
1
0
HarryHodag's picture

October 31, 2023 at 06:56 am

You don't have offense unless you have a solid offensive line. THAT, to me, is the core of the offensive problems. Even E. Jenkins has played sub-par. Moving Stenavich to offensive coordinator did something I've seen in business many times. In business you will see the top sales person promoted to manager. Two things bad happen. First your top producer no longer is producing and you put a person not skilled in managing in that spot. Stenavich was a good line coach, but a lot of the blame on what is happening around the offense must be placed squarely on his shoulders.

16 points
16
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 07:20 am

"Moving Stenavich to offensive coordinator did something..."

I completely agree. I feel like Stenavich was a great OL coach. But last year and this year our offense has struggled. One common thing is that Stenavich got promoted to OC. Well the OL also has struggled both years and the play calling/game planning has went downhill.

I get that injuries have played a huge part in the OL play. But the OL has underperformed last year and this year. One common theme is Stenavich is not longer the OL coach.

5 points
5
0
mrtundra's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:12 am

Recently Stenavich said that Myers is playing well, this season. Makes me wonder if he even watches him during games.

4 points
4
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:23 am

Here is my question. What doe we really know about the OL play?
I brought this up in Nick's post. Stenavich knows the blocking assignments. We don't. Him saying he is playing well, does that make you think there is a chance that guys around him are not?

I am not saying Myers is playing great or poorly. I am just asking if we are judging him to harshly when we don't know what his responsibilities are?

3 points
4
1
Guam's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:54 am

Minor correction RCP. Steno didn't say Myers was playing well, he said Myers was "playing the best football of his career". That could either be high praise or tongue in cheek damning with faint praise. Myers hasn't exactly set a high bar with his play and "playing the best football of his career" may not actually be much praise at all. Steno may be smarter than we are giving him credit for.

I agree with your point that we don't know the blocking assignments, but it is pretty clear that the entire IOL is not playing well. How many times was Dillon stuffed on 3rd or 4th and one because the IOL got pushed back into his lap? And whether Myers or Runyon missed their block on the play you described, somebody on the IOL clearly did.

0 points
1
1
T7Steve's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:14 am

Myers make the line calls before the snap. That's the center's job. If you're sitting on your butt, you probably got put there by someone who you couldn't block.

1 points
1
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:21 am

Just because he makes the calls, it doesn't mean that someone else did what they were supposed to do.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:37 am

Yes, at C it generally does.

-1 points
1
2
RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:19 am

that is true. Him playing his best football of his career doesn't mean he is actually good.

I just see Nick and others non stop pouring on Myers. While I'm not saying that he isn't at fault, and I'm not saying he is good, I'm just saying, that maybe we don't know what we think we know.

When I saw that clip last night it was about how bad Myers looked. But if you watched the whole thing, at the end Tom and Runyan were talking and Tom kind of looked like what are you doing. That has led me to question some things. Questioning who is missing their assignments.

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:41 am

Myers has never had a good season and is worse this year. Pick another hill to fight on.

Myers is Hanson level delusion, If not quite as bad. Same coaches as thought Hanson was the future, thought Newman could play T, Walker is ready and better than Nijman, think Tom is best suited to RT. Myers is not good enough to start and never has been.

Sometimes the plainly obvious is just that.

-1 points
3
4
RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:31 am

I don't plan to die anytime soon.

And I'm not on the table pounding for Myers. If you think so you are missing my point. My point is that I really don't know how good or bad Myers is really. When there are specific plays like the one I'm talking about, I believe Runyan was supposed to block down not out. Is it Myers fault he didn't square up on the DT when he was expecting help? No its not. And by the looks of the play, if Runyan blocks down, they likely get a 1st down. But he kicks out and the DT comes inside of him stuffing the play.

We don't know the blocking assignments and who is right or wrong. Who did it right and who did it wrong. We don't know that. That is what my whole point is.

Hanson as a C was ok for a backup. He couldn't play anywhere else. Newman was a college T, that they projected inside. He did ok his rookie year just never developed after that. I really have no clue what the deal is with Walker/Yosh. That is just strange to me. Tom right now is the best RT option we have, especially if Yosh is the LT.

Myers may not be a great starting C. But right now we don't have great options to play RT. Unless you believe that Jones is better at RT then Myers is at C.

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:42 am

I believe that we need to find out, I certainly do not trust the coaches. If we are do worried about T, we wouldn’t have been playing Walker at LT. Any excuse in a storm, but still getting drenched.

However, when the fastest route to the QB and handoff is as porous as it has been success isn’t happening and that demands other ideas. In addition, the calling from C and Myers effort on plays have been frequently cited by ex players who, together, know more than we do.

If it’s broken, try to fix it, just don’t repeat ad nauseam over multiple seasons. We could also move Runyon and try Rhyan, though I’d go with Jones simply because teams have figured out they can move Tom and don’t necessarily need to beat him. Tom is miscast as a RT in my opinion (everyone’s last season). He could be LT, but Nijman is better at left, or has been and Myers is rank.

1 points
1
0
TKWorldWide's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:59 pm

Good point. To which I will add, I am the tallest member of my immediate family!
(As you might expect, I stand a towering 5ft, 10 and one half inches.)
Now, if I were in the Antetokounmpo family…

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 09:15 am

We can't run behind Myers at C. Whether he's better than JRJ at RH is unknown, but those two are our weakness and the whole league knows it. The only change that's been made is more weaknesses have developed around them.

Why even have depth if you're going to play guys hurt?

1 points
1
0
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:41 am

Coach speak. You're not going to get much in the open from these guys.

What are he and Butkus saying in the locker room?

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:46 am

Look at what they do, and the results. He has to believe it or the actions are ridiculous to the point of idiocy. Unfortunately the results indicate that his premise is too. Whether Butkus agrees is unknown, but Stenovich’s actions suggests his words match his opinions.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:01 am

Watching and seeing aren’t necessarily the same thing. Preconceptions can blind.

0 points
1
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 09:17 am

Like the preconception that Myers is a good C? That Nijman isn't one of our best 5? That Mt Caleb shouldn't take a snap?

1 points
1
0
PeteK's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:26 am

Even Mahomes looked pedestrian Sun with WR who couldn't get open, dropped passes, and poor blocking. Last season when Bak starting playing and Jenkins was moved back to G, the offense started to hum again. Also, an injured Jones, who is our best offensive weapon. It all hampers play calling. Raiders last night, even with a great RB, WR, and good defensive play, couldn't get out of their own way because of terrible O line play.

3 points
3
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:34 am

Also when Watson emerged, our Offense took off.

1 points
2
1
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:02 am

Watson "flashed"...he hasn't emerged.

They don't use him the same way now. He's a sideline guy...a deep guy. He made a lot of hay running mid-depth crossers last season. He also got rocked a few times running crossers. Whatever the case, he's not showing any signs of being a reliable #1 or a game-changing pass-catcher this season.

6 points
6
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:39 am

Last year he emerged. The Dallas game he did.

Before the Cowboys game he had 10 catches for 88 yards, 0 TD's. The Cowboys game and after he had 31 catches for 523 yards and 7 TD's.
That to me is not a flash that is him emerging. He had 3 100 yard games.

Right now he was hurt early just like he was a season ago. He finally "flashed" in week 10 last year. I would not be surprised if he did something similar this year.

-1 points
0
1
PackerBO's picture

October 31, 2023 at 11:06 am

Wishful thinking

2 points
2
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 11:11 am

need to have some sort of hope.

2 points
2
0
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 03:54 pm

I'll agree with you there!

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 11:17 am

Watson wasn’t great in camp before his injury. Perhaps the successes went to his head or perhaps he’s still getting back to full health.

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 31, 2023 at 02:58 pm

Correct, Run WCO for Watson. The two-yard outs do not make a Playmaker.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 09:30 am

True. Not yet.

I don't believe for a minute that #9's abilities have changed. How much is the rest of the team around him and how much of that is coaching, those are the variables.

Plus a different QB, obviously.

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 09:28 am

That was behind a good O line.

1 points
1
0
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:39 am

If Stenavich isn't calling plays, what do we REALLY know about him as OC? I would argue the answer is: not much.

My view is that LaF had to make a choice two years ago: promote Getsy to OC and lose Stenavich to an outside hire, or promote Stenavich and have Getsy hired away. He chose Stenavich--which, honestly, is what I would've done, too--but the offense still looks about the same in terms of personnel and play-calls as prior to his elevation.

I think most NFL coaches suffer from "smart-guy" syndrome and think they know best. It takes some ego to ascend to the level these guys are coaching at. The fact that this offense isn't evolving and changing in the face of evidence that clearly shows opponents have adjusted to what the Packers did early on says that LaF thinks he's going to punch his way through this brick wall rather than figuring out how to go around, under, or over it.

Just saying: I don't think we know hardly anything about Stenavich as OC because the evidence is showing that the play-calls aren't getting it done, but Stenavich isn't making those calls.

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:37 am

We know what he’s managed in the run game. He is also responsible for giving effect to the passing scheme and the game plans as a whole. That’s quite enough.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 09:38 am

Dobber, that is of course a fair point.

Yet the O line remains disastrous. This is why I say if anybody gets fired, it should be Butkus first. (Actually MM, but since we expect that won't change until 2025, look for the next glaring weakness.)

Would Steno address fundamentals including footwork across the whole O line, everybody including PS, if Butkus were gone? If not then either moving him back to O line position coach or out the door makes sense.

Looking at firing MLF and Gutey before this much gets addressed makes no sense. Trying to evaluate JL10 before this is turned around is equally foolish.

Regardless, managing the clock, timeouts, and playcalling has proven too much for MLF. Fix that by delegating playcalling, demoting MLF to OC, or some other way.

1 points
1
0
LeotisHarris's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:47 am

"Stenavich was a good line coach, but a lot of the blame on what is happening around the offense must be placed squarely on his shoulders."

Agreed. Somehow, the collective wisdom of Steno, Getsy, Hackett, and LaFleur coupled with a HOF QB managed to have back-to-back successful seasons. Then coaches were poached, and Matt was forced to make decisions. Unfortunately, we've learned managing and hiring staff are not his strong suits.

There's a ton of "what ifs" to consider. The only way out of this hole is to stop digging.

3 points
3
0
Bitternotsour's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:10 am

Besides personal grooming and media relations, is there a strong suit for MLF?

1 points
3
2
jannes bjornson's picture

October 31, 2023 at 03:35 pm

He dominates in the two-hour tet-a'-tet, securing a multi-million dollar coaching contract.

2 points
2
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 09:42 am

Leotis,

who has MLF hired?

Managing staff is hard to evaluate if the raw talent in that staff isn't there. I would guess that collaboration is MLF's strength just based on his demeanor, but we couldn't know details like that without working with him personally.

1 points
1
0
BAMABADGER's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:18 am

Excellent analogy! GPG!

1 points
1
0
murf7777's picture

October 31, 2023 at 11:21 am

Love your salesperson analogy. You can be great at one thing, but that doesn’t mean it will translate to another.

4 points
4
0
TKWorldWide's picture

October 31, 2023 at 01:03 pm

Like a great kick returner as a nickel back?
(Actually, I think he’s done okay on defense. Some of his decisions on returns, though…)

2 points
2
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 09:48 am

Agreed on Nixon. He just wants to run everything back. Either opponents have figured out how to contain him or he's lost his vision of the field. Or ... something.

0 points
0
0
Eldoublek's picture

October 31, 2023 at 03:11 pm

I submit Sam Howell

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 09:12 am

Agreed. Put him back where he belongs, and we have to assume Butkus is deliberately harming the organization and needs to go to Chicago.

1 points
1
0
Savage57's picture

October 31, 2023 at 07:00 am

They're a young team across the roster, and as the losses stack, the pressure mounts and with each game we see them playing tighter and tighter leading to the mistakes, mental errors and penalties.

Game one in Chicago saw them play loose, fast and focused. We felt good about their chances. The flip flop endings against the Falcons and the Saints left us saying, "OK, they're going to have these kinds of games." Then came the run of losses, all with pretty much the same script, but seeming worse with each succeeding game. It's gotten so extreme the Packers face off against two opponents on Sunday; the other team and themselves.

Youth needs someone to lead them until they can find their way on their own, otherwise you've got the NFL version of The Lord of the Flies. We're not seeing locker room leadership from any of the more senior players on the team. In that absence, the leadership needs to come from the coaching staff, and we're not seeing that either. No one's feet are being held to the fire for their screwups. The lassitude of the team and coaching staff are its greatest threat. They're getting used to losing.

Matt reminds me of the young first officer forced into command in U-571, who says, "I don't know". Then the chief petty officer pulls him aside and advises him, "A captain is a mighty and terrible thing, all knowing, all powerful. A captain always knows the answer, whether he does or not. Don't you ever say those words, 'I don't know' in front of the crew. Those words will kill a crew deader than a depth charge."

Repeating a tsunami of empty platitudes after every loss, then going out the next week and doing more of what's not working, but harder, is no way to go through life.

6 points
8
2
T7Steve's picture

October 31, 2023 at 07:16 am

Good post. It would have taken me 3 hours to come up with all those analogies. Longer to try to remember the names of the references. HA!

2 points
2
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:05 am

" It's gotten so extreme the Packers face off against two opponents on Sunday; the other team and themselves."

This is the truth. They have been beating themselves more then the opposing team has been beating them. Which is good and bad at the same time.

This game we had what 9 penalties? We had 6+ drops. You can't win many games dropping 5 first downs and a TD. And the penalties are absolutely killing this team.

Once they stop beating themselves, they can maybe start beating other teams.

3 points
3
0
MainePackFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 11:26 am

Excellent post Savage. I mentioned in a post yesterday about the lack of locker room leadership and accountability. The roster changes seem to have left this team sorely lacking in veteran leadership.

3 points
3
0
Starrbrite's picture

October 31, 2023 at 02:17 pm

“They are getting used to losing”—That is the scary part.

2 points
2
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 09:53 am

Savage,

the only possible redemption of giving Rasul away is if the team figures there's no hope but decides to play hard anyway, just for the fun of it. If that takes the imaginary pressure off and gets them back to playing loose, obviously that's a step in the right direction.

We've gone from thinking this was a year to evaluate to we can't even do that, and need to scramble to develop these guys somehow. Because they're regressing instead.

1 points
1
0
TxFred's picture

October 31, 2023 at 07:05 am

1) The Pack lose to the Rams, is the 4th and last wheel to come off. They won't win anything left on the schedule.

2) Locker room comments will get pointed & sharp.

3) Writers will grill with sharper questions with follow ups. The weekly yada yada is done. "The we need to clean this up or that up" is not going to cut.

4) MLF & staff will not or cannot develop this very coachable team.

5) If #1 above happens, I cannot see MLF surviving the rest of the year. The talk is out & open now, as are the swords.

-1 points
2
3
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:14 am

The Rams came out of Dallas all beat up. With the bye following the Packers and the Rams sitting at 3-5 (but having played better recently) I wouldn't be surprised to see them sit a bunch of their wounded (i.e. Stafford), try to eke out a win against a Packers team lacking in hap (I didn't want to say hapless), and limp into their bye to regroup and make a run in a very weak NFC. The Rams also could come out really pissed off and hammer the Packers.

This Packers team isn't scaring anybody. At some point they'll surprise us with a game or two where they look efficient and score some points (odds say it will happen eventually), but I'll be damned if I know when that will be.

5 points
5
0
LeotisHarris's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:43 am

..."eke out a win against a Packers team lacking in hap (I didn't want to say hapless).."

Brings to mind a couple of famous quotes from J. Danforth Qualye:

"What a waste it is to lose one's hap. Or not to have hap is being very wasteful. How true that is."

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."

5 points
5
0
Bitternotsour's picture

October 31, 2023 at 11:45 am

if we don't succeed, that sounds like a Yogi Berra quote. Big ups to Danforth if he came up with it himself.

2 points
2
0
1 points
1
0
Packers1985's picture

October 31, 2023 at 11:13 am

Even Rams aren't scaring anybody either and the way Rams are playing and beaten in terms of injuries given this game is in Lambeau. This game should be set right type of game for the Packers. Hopefully they make use of it and sneak out a win to build some confidence in this team.

5 points
5
0
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 01:07 pm

"Hopefully they make use of it and sneak out a win to build some confidence in this team."

...from your lips to God's ears, friend!

2 points
2
0
Packers1985's picture

October 31, 2023 at 02:39 pm

Not so much Dobber. Did the team has given up already looks they the team started selling they just traded their best defensive back Douglas to Bills. Yikes i dont understand this

3 points
3
0
LeotisHarris's picture

October 31, 2023 at 02:56 pm

I'm with you in not understanding. It's time for the adults to have a talk about taking the keys away from grandpa. What was Gute's thought process like? "Um, let's see, we're thin in the secondary so let's trade the one veteran we can count on."

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 10:37 am

Not in win now mode, that's for sure. See if we can demoralize the roster by giving them no chance to win, more like it.

1 points
1
0
Bitternotsour's picture

November 01, 2023 at 10:53 am

OK. Let's get to the crux of the issue. Rasul was the reason that the D was forced to play that soft zone. Barry was covering up Rasul's weakness in hardnosed man-to-man bump and run, and now, finally we are going to see the kind of in your face aggressive defense that Barry had been wanting to run since he got hired.

This trade was a vindication for Barry. Get ready Packer fans. it's coming.

We are going to see the true LaFleur now that Rasul and Rodgers are finally at last laid to rest.

All gas, no brakes baby!

1 points
1
0
Packerpasty's picture

October 31, 2023 at 07:35 pm

I thought the Raiders, then the Bronco's were the "get right" games for the Packers....and Lambeau, sadly, doesn't scare teams anymore....thats the worst part of all of this...losing the Lambeau mystique..

0 points
1
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 09:56 am

Knives out

2 points
2
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 07:05 am

"This team is an unprepared tire fire. Yet, there are so many people calling for Love to sit. But that isn’t the answer either. Who exactly is Love throwing to? There were four drops on Sunday — and the majority of those came in big spots."

I counted at least 6 drops. And I have no idea how many throws were off based on a WR running a wrong route or whatever. Sure he had some off throws but he had some absolutely perfect throws that were just dropped. He had another one that was a lot of work by him to get rid of the ball, Doubs caught it and it got called back because of Walker being downfield.
The WR's need to step up. Its as simple as that. They need to start making these plays. Of the 6 drops that I know of, 5 would have been 1st downs and 1 would have been a TD.
One of them turned into an interception.

"LaFleur hasn’t trusted Love."
Is it that LaFleur hasn't trusted Love, or is it that he hasn't trusted the young TE's & WR's, the bad OL, the slow back up RB?

I think its more the latter then the former. Love knows the offense and can run all of it. But there are way to many mistakes among the other players. So they have to scale things back.

We really at this point don't know what Love is or isn't. That isn't a good thing. We should start having a good idea of what kind of QB he is. But with the poor play around him, we don't know how good or bad Love really is.

6 points
7
1
T7Steve's picture

October 31, 2023 at 07:22 am

Doesn't it seem like instead of a building season it's becoming a blow-up season?

Do they have to completely blow up BEFORE they rebuild?

1 points
1
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:20 am

yes and no. Yes they need to blow things up but not everything. They don't need to rebuild from the ground up.

Right now we don't know if Love is the future. We don't know if he can be a top QB in the league or if he will be a mid tier type or bottom of the league type. We just don't know with the people around him.

They need to rebuild the OL. That is where it starts on offense. We don't know about Bakhtiari for next year what will happen there. Jenkins will be there. They need to figure out the rest of the OL. The TE they should still add another player there. WR, I can see them adding more to the position again. RB will most likely be blown up and redone.

Defense needs to be completely blown up. New coaching staff, and players to match what that coach wants. The defense has the core players they need. They just need a DC that is more aggressive. Not allowing teams free releases off the LOS down after down. When its 3rd and short they aren't playing 10 yards off the ball. How many more sacks would our front have if the CB's were allowed to get in the faces of the WR's rerouting them? Or at least played stickier coverages. But when they allow free releases its easy to game plan that.

So yes we need to blow things up, i just don't think the whole thing needs to be tore down.

0 points
1
1
PeteK's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:42 am

Bak is gone with a saving of 20 mill.

1 points
1
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:55 am

I'm assuming he will be gone, but at the same time it wouldn't surprise me if they reworked his deal.
Lotta ballgame left

1 points
1
0
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 01:50 pm

It would surprise the bejeezus out of me.

Reworking that deal would reek of desperation or at least desperate hope. I think it would be throwing good money after bad.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 10:43 am

RCP,

rebuilding the O line means addressing fundamentals including footwork. It doesn't matter who you have, if they're making mistakes that basic you don't have a team. Start there.

Only after that can players be picked. Every O lineman on the roster should be fixable, and serviceable after that., with few exceptions who could be upgraded through the draft. (Newman)

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 10:22 am

This was always going to be a big test of who LaFleur really was. The results are in and are earlier, clearer and more sharply conclusive than expected. There is no coherent O plan and key elements like run blocking are impeded by coaches, just continuity on D. LaFleur had been unequivocally exposed.

Yes we had to go through this and find out what he was. The signs have always been there that he was an anchor not a booster when it matters. Tactical whippings, team persona, plsyer mishandling, coaching disasters unaddressed and retained, inability to adjust week to week and in game.

Many blamed them on Rodgers. Clearly most of that was not the case. We had to know. Now we do we should have already acted. Tomorrow is already too late.

3 points
3
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 10:50 am

CW, excellent analysis. Every playoff loss since MLF came to town, it was easy to say he was out coached. Too easy. Premature to dismiss him. Last season was also too complicated to assess accurately.

Now? It couldn't be clearer. MLF does not have what this roster needs. Whether he could be a decent OC, or just an outside consultant drawing up plays in the off-season; he can't do that much in season because he won't game plan for specific opponents. Unfortunately, at best they could demote him to OC for the rest of the season. Bump Steno down to O line coach, dismiss Butkus immediately, elevate RB to interim HC.

Is there a better option? Other than finishing 2-15 vying for #1 draft pick, I mean.

1 points
1
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

November 01, 2023 at 12:09 pm

RC,
Great comments as always! I too counted at least 6 clean drops but arguably believe there may have been 7 or 8 drops. In addition to the drops the receivers all seem to struggle winning contested catches. Where is the coaching fundamentals of using your body to box out the defender?

0 points
0
0
MEO73's picture

October 31, 2023 at 07:24 am

Love may not be THE problem, but he is A problem. We're 7 games into the season.

Love is off target (32nd in accuracy), throwing uncatchable passes (5th most), he's tied for 1st in interceptions (all the other worst finishers have played 8 games, except one ) and has thrown picks in the last five games--two of them game killers. He is 23rd in pressure rate (10th least pressured QB in the league). He throws out of a clean pocket at a rate of 77% and is only 27th in sack rate (6th least sacked QB in the league). The o-line has been poor in run blocking but has held up to the rush at an above average level.

His Passer rating is 32nd. Still completes under 60% of his passes, and his QBR and Passer ratings have tanked since the Atlanta game.

His drop rate is not in the top 10, although that stat had not been adjusted to account for the Minnesota game. However, until the Raider game where there were 5 drops alone, there were only 4 total drops before that game and no drops recorded in the Denver game.

He's on pace to be a bottom-5 QB this year. This will be the first time since 1992 that GB has had a regular starting QB perform that poorly. While this is his first year as the starter, this is his 4th season and he logged one prior start. He has not been elevating the players around him.

My concern with Love is that since the season started he has regressed. Maybe the Bears game was an anomally. Unfortunately, he looks like the same guy he did in college, where in two and a half years as a starter in a weak, non-power conference, he had one good year. Yes, he had major coaching changes, etc in his final year at Utah State, but after 4 NFL seasons, he doesnt look like he's improved. Still got plenty of games left this season to improve, and we have a weak remaining schedule, but he needs to make progress. I hope he is our guy, but I'm not seeing it yet.

15 points
15
0
T7Steve's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:16 am

You sort of argued against yourself. If the line can't run block, the opponent just has to play the pass. Running and if the Ds have to honor it, helps set up the pass, makes longer possessions and helps the O and QB get in sync. Helps the D too.

That said, some of the stats you've listed are Halloween type scary.

4 points
5
1
MEO73's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:22 am

Not arguing against myself because Im not making an argument, exactly. Just laying out the stats. Even with the poor run blocking, though, Love is getting time to throw. He's passing from a clean pocket, mostly. But he's still not very accurate. Teams have film on him and know he cant throw long. I think that's why we see the conservative coaching too. MLF knows we have limited passing options. Hopefully this all changes. Someday.

3 points
3
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:48 am

While you can use stats to help come to a conclusion, stats can only get you so far.

While we can look at stats and come up with some answers, there can be questions with them. Such as, on the uncatchable passes, how many did the WR run the wrong route, or stop/slow down on the route?

Who determines what is a dropped pass? Is it purely based on passes that hit the WR's hands? One site will say they had 6 dropped passes, some will say they had 4.

Of the dropped passes how many of those came on 3rd or 4th down where it basically ended drives?

And how many plays were completed to only have a penalty taking away the play?

While the stats can paint a picture, we shouldn't purely judge him based on stats.

Right now there is a lot wrong with the players around him. Once that gets fixed, the numbers will start going up.

1 points
2
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 11:37 am

More emphatically, numbers won't even be meaningful until some of this is fixed. Adjust for dropped passes and JL10's completion rate is about 76%. That's not meaningful because it didn't happen that way, but it's a glaring example that the stats aren't telling the story, currently.

Can this be turned around? Is every talented player doomed to a ruined career because of these first 7 games? Hopefully it's not THAT bad, but it's important to turn this around.

1 points
1
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

November 01, 2023 at 12:12 pm

Bingo!

0 points
0
0
PeteK's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:03 am

While the #s are not good, and he's getting into a bad habit of being jumpy in the pocket, I'll give him some credit for the most important stat: 11 in the NFL with 11 TDs. He is also tied for 2nd ( Garopollo 9 after last night) most INTs with Mahomes, Allen, and Hurts. #s can be misleading.

3 points
3
0
MainePackFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:20 pm

6 of the 11 TD's, and none of the INT's came in the first 2 weeks. It's what's happened since that has caused concern.

What I like about Jordan is in spite of the issues surrounding him, he knows that he has to get better. He knows it's on him to be a leader and lift the ship. If he plays to his ability, the team will get better.
You will see a lot less drops if, and when, JL shows he is a QB1. Hopefully that starts this Sunday against the Rams.

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 11:42 am

Look at the difference since week 2, that's a valid comparison and it's valid. I don't believe JL10 just got worse. I think our O line got beat, then hurt, then sloppy. And no coach is correcting anything.

If Bakh were put in the position to correct this, he could. He knows enough to be able to. His technique is impeccable. Injury hasn't changed that.

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 11:30 am

ME,

this offense can't do anything. Can't move the ball. Look at time of possession. Look at total yards.

Time in a clean pocket is worthless when the QB rightfully cannot trust his O line to keep him from getting destroyed.

1 points
1
0
Guam's picture

October 31, 2023 at 09:08 am

Thanks for the research and statistics on Love MEO73. You have very nicely summed up my feelings about Love. I am nowhere near ready to do a final evaluation on Love, but my hope that he is the next great Packer QB is starting to wane. Love's surrounding cast is not helping him, but he isn't helping them get better either.

5 points
5
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 11:45 am

I never had hope that JL10 would be a GREAT QB. I did have hope that he'd be able to run this offense competently. After that, develop into? We certainly don't know his ceiling. We're watching his floor get dug deeper.

No QB could function effectively behind this disaster that's supposed to be an O line.

1 points
1
0
MainePackFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 12:46 pm

This is a good honest post MEO73. You're speaking of concerns we all have, or should have, and backing them up with stats. At the same time, you are obviously hoping to see him progress. Everyone in here wants to see Jordan Love succeed. That includes those who may be critical of him.

Yes, the mess we've been watching for the last 4 weeks is a team problem. He is a part of the team, and thus far, his performance has been part of the problem. I have no doubt if Jordan cleans up the holes in his game, the part that he can control, the rest of the team will get better. GPG!!!

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 01:00 pm

I don't see how JL10 can clean up the holes in his game without at least some improvement from supporting cast. O line giving him a clean pocket for enough time for someone to get open and him to make a good throw isn't the same thing when he's under pressure so consistently he shouldn't have any trust that he won't get creamed. This is at least due in large part due to bad footwork by our O linemen, which is up to coaches to correct. The raw talent of at least MOST of the O linemen is enough to hold up consistently against at least MOST of the defenses they're facing.

That doesn't cause anyone to drop a pass, but when the timing is off or it's thrown behind him instead of in stride it certainly makes for a harder catch. Fix the O line! Have a clinic on fundamentals, including the whole position group, PS included. Maybe D line, too. LVN could probably benefit and if so, every pass rusher could.
After that, changing starters might make a difference.

Give JL10 something consistent to work with, then maybe he'll become more consistent. Not trying to thread needles like he was AR12 is separate. Learning when to throw it away is separate. Learning when to take a sack, maybe he's improved. Learning to slide instead of risking injury from being tackled as a runner he's pretty good at.

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 10:58 am

Your stat of 4 total drops before playing the Raiders, I call bs. I don't care what your source is, watch the film.

JL10 has accuracy. He's thrown DIMES. Including deep. Not consistently and maybe he'll never be consistently accurate deep, but nobody fills AR12's shoes. It's not a fair comparison.
Metrics are one thing but there are liars, damn liars, and then there are statisticians. I think your stated analysis here is at risk of running that error. There is MUCH that isn't revealed by stat lines.

All that said, there are upgrades in the upcoming draft class. That's knowable now, even though JL10's ceiling is not. Whether that would be a good move or not is an interesting discussion, but it will wait 4 months anyway.

1 points
1
0
ko40489's picture

October 31, 2023 at 07:38 am

No doubt that it's too early to write off Love, but there are serious red flags. As Cory states lack of accuracy on deep balls and poor decision making are 2 that stand out. I'd add another--leadership. When I see him on the field and moreso in his post game press conferences, I don't see much enthusiasm, certainly not the type of guy who will rally a team to get behind him. It's all very flat. Maybe it's expecting too much given that he's been thrown into a tough situation, but I see a lot of young QB's in the league who demonstrate that they want to be "the guy". I give Love credit for his humility, but he needs to start showing some fire. He seems to have completely lost his self-confidence. MLF needs to do his part to prop him up. There's different styles of leadership and maybe he's a better "locker room leader", but based on what I'm seeing there's another red flag with his leadership.

4 points
7
3
fireball's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:49 am

I agree with " fire " idea. In a few games when Love ran for first down a few times, he fist punched in the air. A little more of that from him, yeah.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

October 31, 2023 at 11:05 am

Maybe we need to just let him loose and take the inevitable downsides? The first half straight jacket seems worse than the desperation catch up at present.

3 points
3
0
dobber's picture

October 31, 2023 at 04:06 pm

I think this is exactly what they need to do.

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 31, 2023 at 06:47 pm

He is an Air Raid QB. Same system Mahomes used at T Tech. Get this kid in synch and challenging the perimeter on the zone defenses. Telegraphing the deep post/seam plays right intothe safeties hands.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 01:14 pm

CW, that's an idea. The problem is trying to be an air raid offense out of this chaos increases interceptions more than positive yardage. This offense can't do anything; can't run, can't pass, can't move the ball.

O line. That's the problem, and that's the solution. Combine improvement there with any concept of scheme directed at a specific opponent and matchup and this team would at least be more fun to watch.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 11:01 am

Ko, your observations are after losing 4 in a row, including the two most winnable games on the schedule until week 17. NONE of that was an issue at any point from the draft until week 3 (or later)

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stockholder's picture

October 31, 2023 at 07:44 am

Get off it. -
The packers knew exactly what they had in Love.

The Robot-
The inaccuracy.
The difference.
The wait.

Love lost support.
And the best thing is for Love to sit again.
He's quit on MLF, and not doing this team any good.
He won't be able to fill Rodgers shoes.
Guteys trick is No treat!

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 01, 2023 at 11:03 am

You speak out your ass. You don't know that JL10 has "quit." You don't know that he's lost support - from anyone but YOU.

Nobody fills AR12's shoes. He's a record holder.

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fireball's picture

October 31, 2023 at 07:51 am

I pretty much agree with the entire piece. Can't really get a decent judgment on love, yet, especially with the offense he has. Not yet. No comparison at all with Rodgers, for example, in what kind of offense he had in his first year starting. And let's not forget that Love is a young Black quarterback trying to find his way in a world not particularly open to or understanding Black leadership and maybe not even from other Black players. Still, amazingly, Love has held up when answering questions from the media after sustained losses.

I'm not even sure I can put much of the blame ( if you have to put blame somewhere ) on the head coach.

Over and over various football analysts said the Packer offense would be raw, young, inexperienced. Well, hell, that's what the Packer offense is! That fact, I'm thinking, has taken Matt LaFleur by surprise. I don't think it ever occurred to LaFleur that the offense could, would, be so bad. Talented, I believe, as a group, but, man, really bad so far.

Lately, I'm thinking, if this offense ever starts jelling, really jelling ( and I'm thinking they might ), they're going to be hell on wheels. . . after all the adversity they have gone through.

Let's see if LaFleur has wised up, is on his way to becoming a really good coach, a solid coach, a teaching coach. Like the article suggests, maybe LaFleur should start having faith in Love ( like he did with Rodgers ) and start running plays like he did in his first year as the Packer head coach.

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T7Steve's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:21 am

It's 20-30 years past the "black" thing in the NFL. Even longer in schools.

He has leadership or he doesn't. Nothing to do with his race.

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barutanseijin's picture

October 31, 2023 at 05:37 pm

Typically it’s the people who are not over the “black thing” who like to pretend that race doesn’t matter anymore. It’s convenient for it to be over because if that is the case , there’s no need to change anything.

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RCPackerFan's picture

October 31, 2023 at 08:36 am

What does the color of the QB's skin have to do with anything?

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barutanseijin's picture

October 31, 2023 at 05:42 pm

It has to do with how he is perceived. You don’t make prejudice go away by pretending it doesn’t exist.

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T7Steve's picture

November 01, 2023 at 07:01 am