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Cory's Corner: Brian Gutekunst Must Change Culture

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Cory's Corner: Brian Gutekunst Must Change Culture

This may be Brian Gutekunst’s first term as the Packers general manager, but it is oh so important.

And not because the Packers want to win with one of the best arms to play the quarterback position, it’s because he’s in charge of changing an entire culture.

Think about his predecessor. Ted Thompson would rather walk across hot burning coals than spend money on free agents — from his own team or elsewhere. That mindset eventually makes its way around the league.

There’s a reason that Charles Woodson and Julius Peppers were the most impactful free agent signings in 2006 and 2014. Those two bookended marginal talents like Samkon Gado and Don Barclay.

Gutekunst has to make Green Bay a destination city for free agents again. Yes, I said again. Remember when Reggie White shocked everyone and opted to come to Green Bay in 1993? The Packers were one of six teams White visited. Yet, he opted to come to Green Bay after Mike Holmgren left a divine message on his answering machine.

It can happen in Green Bay. Granted, there is no impact player like White available in this free agent market. White was arguably the best defensive lineman of all time and this free agent field is pretty average with 35-year-old Tramon Williams being the fifth-best free agent according to Pro Football Focus.

So what’s the best way to turn the tide and make Green Bay a magnet city for free agents? Gutekunst just simply has to spend money. The first impactful free agent will open the league’s eyes and like White, will be a natural recruiting tool.

Gutekunst also has 12 draft picks at his disposal to beef up the roster. That includes seven picks in the fourth through sixth rounds. He can package those picks in a trade for a player or use them for a better pick.

And the moment Gutekunst opens the Packers’ checkbook, the rest of the league won’t be the only ones taking notice. Green Bay’s locker room will see how much the newbie general manager wants to win and wants to win now.

Aaron Rodgers is 34. Gutekunst must sell Green Bay and the Packers quickly in order to import talent.

That’s the only way the Packers are going to have another ticker tape parade in the next five years is if free agents start filling in the gaps. That means potentially an edge rusher, a cornerback an offensive lineman or two and a receiver.

Gutekunst has the future in front of him. Legacies of a locker room full of players wait for what he will do.

Gutekunst was hired to make a change. This is the wrong time for more of the same.



Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (99) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

John Kirk's picture

There is a sinking feeling reading this piece for me. Where were these kind of voices all the years Ted was road blocking our way to championships? I knew once he was out of the way then, and only then, would eyes open to that reality. All those years it was about how Ted was one of the top GM's in the league and how we were so fortunate to have him. Now, it's how far down we are and in need of a culture change. If not for Anthony Barr, I think the fog around this issue would be as thick as ever.

I completely agree with the theme of the piece. I just wish these kind of things would've been noticed much less written about for the last several years. I've taken heat from a writer here for referring to Ted as an impediment to winning but that's exactly what he was and what is behind this piece.

A big trade would help. Rams traded for Peters. Not saying that was the right move for us but we have to do something like that. Something that offers hope that things are different. I wish Josh Gordon wasn't the risk he is personally. Reaching out to Cleveland and getting him on the last year of his very reasonable rookie deal would be one of the most exciting personnel moves in Packers history. Aaron finally paired with an all world talent? I'd like to see what Aaron could do with a legit superstar for once.

Brian stood up and spoke to how he was going to differ from Ted. Now, is the time to put up or shut up. Are we the same old moribundly run franchise or is there some spark in Green Bay? That first domino could fall any day with the release of one of our big cap problems. I have waited for this time after Ted for many many years and can't wait to see what happens over the next few months. Most excited I've been since Favre got booted to the Jets from an organizational news stand point. I can only hope the now omnipresent Murphy doesn't dampen this thing any more than he already has.

Hawg Hanner's picture

Well said. I'd like to see the money needed to resign Burnett go instead to a FA corner. I do hope you're right and BG does release one of the high dollar receivers.

dobber's picture

He's gotta be smart about how he handles the WRs. If he flat out cuts players before FA even starts, he's handcuffing the organization with regard to signing FAs at those positions...agents will see that the Packers have to get something done and play that into their negotiations. At the same time, having Adams, Nelson and Cobb all on the roster will make it difficult to attract a guy looking for significant increases in playing time and $$$.

stockholder's picture

You only have to look at the return of A-Rod, to know Nelson and Cobb will be on this team. The vegas odds are with them. The best move he could make is sign a TE. Losing Cobb, Nelson, Mathews would only mean A-Rod walks! And the packers will be losers for years to come ! The league has caught the packers thanks to TT.

stockholder's picture

If they draft a QB and he develops. Where does that leave your Tag? Favre wanted to go to Minn. He ended up in NY. Then Minn. Charles Woodson left too. Many other things can happen first. Usually the player that gets hurt won't get resigned, or is done. (Collins, Finley, Shields, the list is growing.) I believe Cobb, Nelson, CMIII, and bulaga have one last chance. And it's on A-rod with these guys. But Age is the final footnote here.

Bure9620's picture

I kind of agree, but what specifically does Gutekunst need to do assert himself and change culture or make a splash?? Sign Tyler Eifert, Trumaine Johnson and Moncreif???? Lets not forget, as much as we all want to see more action in free agency, some of those signings end up not working out. We still have dead cap money against Martellus Bennett, how'd that "splash" work out? What specifically does he need to do is my question?? Move up in the draft? Trade Cobb or Jordy for picks??

billybobton's picture

It seems to me you are exactly correct. New age writers of this '3 years after it happened' really should not get the articles. I am almost motivated to go and post some of this authors prior posts on teddie to see where this is in perspective.

Almost as bad as Pete D with his ....gee it is a couple of years from when we should have moved on after two years of butt kissing

EddieLeeIvory's picture

Well said. And you are right about that. Many fans sae Thompson as overrated.

Think about this: New England benefitted tremendously when they acquired Randy Moss in 2007, from Oakland.

Seattle the same when they acquired Marshawn Lynch in 2010 from Buffalo.

Both of those guys wanted to go to Green Bay, and both were offered to TT on a silver platter. Deals were almost consummated. If John Schneider was our GM then, they would have gotten done.

Imagine that. Give Seattle James Starks & us Lynch for those 4 years. Hell give them Lacy too.

I don't want Marcus Peters because he's a bad dude.
But there are 20 UFA CBs who are probably better than our best CB. We should add two of them.
There aren't any great edge rushers available in free agency. We need to find one in the draft. We also need to hope that Vinny Biegel blossoms. Don't forget about him.

dobber's picture

"If John Schneider was our GM then, they would have gotten done."

Comments like this are unprovable. It's possible that if he were running the show in GB under those circumstances, Schneider would've never sniffed at Lynch.

Rossonero's picture

If Gutekunst is interested in changing the culture of the organization, his first step should be to look in the mirror and make sure he is setting the kind of behavioral example he wants everyone else to follow. In other words, lead by example.

Yesterday, we got a nice haul of compensatory picks. However, after the 4th round, historically the Packers have not done well with comp. picks. Here's an opportunity for Gutekunst to trade some of those comp. picks to move up and be aggressive in this draft.

From Packers wire: "After the fourth-round, the Packers have not found much success.

In the fifth-round, Green Bay has selected defensive end Josh Boyd in 2013 and wide receiver Jared Abbredaris in 2014. Both players did not play three full seasons and Abbredaris just announced his retirement from football this past season.

Tight end Kennard Backman and defensive lineman Christian Ringo were sixth-round compensatory pick for the Packers in the 2015 draft. Backman played just seven games in 2015 with no catches, while Ringo recorded two tackles in eight games."

stockholder's picture

The biggest problem was the talent in front of them. TT didn't trade up. Should have! This year fans are begging for a DB again. I believe after keeping Jarod Bush for so long. The Comp picks should be used on that CB position. If the cb is that good, and fast, he'll go before #14.(Pro ready) We all hope that special player falls. But they won't this year in rd 1. I believe the packers will take a Vea or Davenport. And with Hundley, I could see them taking a QB.

Johnblood27's picture

always trading up to get that "cherry" that was always just out of reach is exactly the Mike Sherman draft strategy.

How did that work out?

yeah, not good at all.

The right cherry has to be available.

I wouldn't grade Gotie's entire performance on if he trades up a bunch, lets just get quality football players into camp. No more injury prone position-switches please.

dobber's picture

"always trading up to get that "cherry" that was always just out of reach is exactly the Mike Sherman draft strategy."

I tend to agree. My crude assessment has always been that Sherman didn't value the draft enough and TT valued it too much. I find it funny that some of the people who keep saying "TT should have traded up more" are the same people who say he couldn't identify good talent in the draft if it wore a neon sign.

stockholder's picture

I agree and disagree. TT should have traded up after winning the super bowl! Sherman should not have, and was no wolf. Would we have CM3? TT got to many comp - picks, but lost the people around him that scouted for better. He felt players would fall. He should have turned to FA, and then dumped some picks. Regardless, wasted years by not getting the right people. The draft has become development. The players aren't pro ready. I point to Adams and Spriggs. Example: That Hayward and Hyde can leave and become all-pros. I didn't agree on Spriggs, but need gets in the way of judgement. Everything has become to much about timing. TT should have wound his clock instead of losing it.

Rossonero's picture

Dobber: My argument, with the examples cited for past comp. picks, shows Ted did not do a good enough job after the 4th round, hence why I'm more in favor of using late round comp. picks to trade up.

What I did not say is that Ted couldn't draft talent. Of course he could -- but in rounds 1-4. He also traded up for Clay Matthews in 2009 and obviously that paid off.

Most of these late round comp. picks may not even make the team anyway, so why not try to grab a guy who has a better shot?

HankScorpio's picture

"My argument, with the examples cited for past comp. picks, shows Ted did not do a good enough job after the 4th round, hence why I'm more in favor of using late round comp. picks to trade up."

There is one gigantic flaw in your argument. Ted is not making the picks anymore. So there is no reason to use his failures to guide the strategy moving forward.

Draft Math is a real thing. The more you pick, the more you hit, The less you pick, the less you'll hit. More is better. The problem with Thompson was not that he was not trading up enough, it was that he was not picking good players enough. If Gute will suffer that same failures of not picking enough good players, the Packers have made the wrong GM choice and they won't be able to plot their way to fixing that mistake.

dobber's picture

I was referring to other posters, but no problem, and your point is well-taken. We all know about TTs early-round whiffs, though, too. And if you're whiffing at an "average" rate in the early rounds and whiffing at a higher than average rate in the later rounds....AND your track record in bringing in FAs over the years hasn't been stellar? These dots connect themselves.

Cubbygold's picture

I've heard this type of comment multiple times in the last week, talking about GBs track record of success in drafting in certain rounds. "we shouldn't get a WR in round one because we have a good track record of getting recievers in the second or third". Same with this comment about lack of success with certain picks later on. Historical success/failure has no bearing on what might happen in this draft, and untill you get about 200 years of a track record with the same management team in place you don't know if success is due to luck or skill.

Gute should be trading draft picks to move up, I agree. But the decision should have nothing to do with a past GMs success in any particular round

Rossonero's picture

Fair enough. I still say these late round picks will be lucky to make the roster. We need players who can play now -- not practice squad fodder.

Cubbygold's picture

Yeah, completely agree. I'd rather have 5 high quality guys come to camp than 12 draft guys and more UDFAs.

HankScorpio's picture

The bottom of the roster is populated by guys like Jake Ryan, Kyler Fackrell, Chris Odom, Quinton Dial, Donatello Brown, Demetri Goodson, Adam Pankey, Lucas Patrick, Emanuel Byrd and Ulrick John.

That doesn't seem like all that difficult a task to beat out one of them.

Of course, if the guys competing with that group are no better, well, that's an issue. One they hoped to have addressed by changing GMs last month.

Madfan's picture

First, I need to agree with Rossonero that the track record for late round picks is poor. Yes, a few are found, but so many of those picks never saw the field. Last year was a good example.

Second, I do see the need to be more aggressive in free agency, but my hope is that one or two major contributors (not seldom used backups) can be found. I'd love to see four or five, but the salary cap realities of the NFL temper my expectations. Some of the existing money is going to picking up the option year on Randall and much going to Rodgers extension.

Third, looking ahead to 2019 presents both concerns and opportunities. 2018 is the last year on Nelson's contract (unless revised) and Matthews contract.

dobber's picture

I agree: they need to be aggressive in FA, but they need to be smart in how they go about it. Remember that the 5th year option on Randall kicks in for 2019 when several big contracts come off the books.

nostradanus's picture

Green Bay has become a bastion for the "un-drafted" free agent under the Thompson-McCarthy watch.
Understandable in that once every 100 players a Sam Shields, Tramon Williams or a Lane Taylor come along which is great as it keeps costs in line for a small market team like the Packers during the Big Dollar $$ free agent insanity. I have a feeling Gute will approach free-agency cautiously which he should and he will land one or two key pieces after the dust has settled amongst the craziness of the early free-agency frenzy. Do I expect the culture to change dramatically, no because up until last season Thompson's model has kept this team in contention. That said; Gute will want to put his stamp on this new era, here is what I expect.

*Some active trading up and down in the draft
*One Key free-agent signing after the first wave of craziness
*A few late tier veteran depth signings
*Several re-structured deals of their own guys
*A couple of hard-sad goodbye's to long time veterans

The roller coaster is going to start soon, hang on boys!

Go Pack!

John Kirk's picture

Thompson's model has kept this team in contention? I completely disagree with that contention. Aaron Rodgers kept us in contention making it appear Ted's model was working. Ted's model was the exact wrong model for a team with a QB like Aaron Rodgers. He played for 5 years down the road never giving the season right in front of us the attention it deserved. He took what should've been a dynasty like New England and turned us into a franchise who likes to brag about being in the playoffs, which is what any GM could do with Rodgers at QB. The expectations in Green Bay were always low under Ted. It was never about SuperBowls here with him. It was about making the playoffs and having a chance. It should've been so much more.

It's a disgrace what's happened since 2010. Where franchises like the Chicago Bulls and New England Patriots maximized their good fortune. We have completely squandered ours. The question now is can Brian Gutekunst fix things in a short time given all the issues that were left on his plate from Ted's failed model?

nostradanus's picture

You make some valid points indeed, however the one overriding factor involved is this is a business and the Packers are a small market team without a Billionaire owner willing to shell out crazy bonus money.
The Packers have to be smart in free agency spending and I know Thompson was a bit to the extreme frugal side of things.
Hopefully Gute will be willing to spend a bit more and take a few more chances than old tight wad Ted.

dobber's picture

Billionaire owners have nothing to do with salaries and cap spending/bonus money. All NFL teams are making money, but they're all handcuffed to the same player pay structure. If anything, the Packers lacking a high-end owner sponging off profits means they are better able to stuff all those profits back into facilities and infrastructure.

Bure9620's picture

A small mall market team flushed with cash. This isn't baseball, there's a cap everyone has to adhere to, what does small market have to do with anything in paying FA?

fthisJack's picture

GB had SB aspirations every year Thompson was GM and had teams that should have and could have made it to the SB. i believe they should have been in the SB in 2015 against NE but for some terrible coaching. Capers running their defense was a BIG handicap for many years! injuries played a big role.
i will say that TT could have done more in the way of FA but to claim that he didn't keep this team in contention for a SB is just ridiculous!

dobber's picture

Every team brings in whatever quality UDFAs they can find. I don't expect that to change under Gutekunst...and if they play their way onto the roster and play draft picks or veterans off, then I hope they make the 53. That bottom quarter of the roster should be populated with guys who practice and play like they don't unpack their bags.

John Kirk's picture

The more I think about what has happened in Green Bay over the years, the more I begin to doubt things are going to get better. We've suffered a lot of "brain drain" over the years as our bright stars in the front office have left for other organizations. We just experienced a bunch of it with the hire of Brian losing Alonzo and Eliot to Cleveland. Dorsey...gone...Schneider...gone...Reggie McKenzie....gone...Tim Terry...gone. It was alleged, by some, Ted was seen in a positive light because of who he had around him and when they departed he didn't look quite as good. Now, we have a novice GM who doesn't have half what Ted had around him when he was receiving accolades and we're expecting better.

The "imTEDiment" to winning SBs is gone and for that I'm thrilled but now we have Mark Murphy ultra involved in lieu of the great personnel men Ted had surrounding him. Brian is going to be receiving information from a watered down staff...and Ted Thompson. He better be a whiz kid who just never had the opportunity. If Ted was the Jacob Schum of GM's, Brian better be more than Justin Vogel, we need him to be Ray Guy. I used to believe if we could just get Ted out of the way we could win some more SB's with Aaron. I fear that we waited many years too long to make the move that should've been made years prior. Now, there's cap issues, Aaron's extension, all on a first year GM who doesn't have the guys Ted used to. Are we expecting way too much?

Gute in German= quality. Kunst in German= art. Quality art. Brian is going to have to paint a masterpiece this offseason. Does he have the canvas and paints Ted had at his disposal or is he just that superior of an artist that it won't matter? brought up some old wounds. Throw Tony Gonzalez on top of Randy Moss and Marshawn Lynch. Oh, what might have been. We will never ever know because we had one of the oddest characters ever running our franchise depriving us of so many woulda shoulda coulda memories.

Tom Petty said waiting is the hardest part. It surely is... I can't wait to see what Brian does to legitimize us or depress us.

BELIEVER's picture

Right on, had one of the oddest characters ever running our franchise! Isn't that the truth.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

John, this comment is a decidedly mixed bag for me. "I'm thrilled but now we have Mark Murphy ultra involved in lieu of the great personnel men Ted had surrounding him." Um, no. Murphy scares the hell out of me. That said, he might work out, but I see zero qualifications for the role he may have carved out for himself. It remains to be seen exactly what that role turns out to be.

John Kirk's picture

Oh, TGR... I can't stand Mark Murphy. I was saying Ted had guys like Dorsey, Schneider, etc. in the past helping him. Now, we have a 1st year GM who doesn't have what Ted had over the years, and he has omnipresent, all of a sudden, Mark Murphy meddling. That is a huge drop off and reason to maybe not have such high expectations even after the joy of seeing Ted's removal.

Cubbygold's picture

Thelong term future is certainly a question mark, but the replacement of capers for pettine, in my book, is already the biggest win this team needed going into next year with a healthy Rodgers. I expect the defense to improve significantly, not top 10, but certainly better than recent years. If Gute can just support the team with decent moves I like the short-term outlook.

fthisJack's picture

i'm sure whatever Brian does, outside of winning the SB, just won't be up to your standards.

John Kirk's picture

What are your standards? Just make the playoffs and lose and call it a great season? What other goal is there? What standard should we aspire to? We have our incredible advantage at QB for only so many more seasons. Maximize it or be remembered by history as another GM who wasted the gift. I have more grace for Brian...he walks in to something he didn't create that isn't pretty. No one would call this a seamless transition from greatness to greatness as they would with Favre to Rodgers.

Royalty Free GM's picture

This is probably the last time in Aaron Rodgers’s era that Packers will be able to draft at TOP15.

It is finally time for some offensive moves.
Even trade up couple spots to get truly WR1. Don’t miss this opportunity.
We have done enough D# top draft picks in the last 10 years or more. Get some speed and deep threat by picking WR Ridley!

stockholder's picture

Sorry not a Ridley fan. Packers should stay put at 14. Defense!. The move they need to make is getting back into the 2nd. (GET that 1 Solid WR there by trading up!.) So Defense, Defense , WR. I say WR for the future. If they take a QB you won't see a Wr until the 4th or later.

Royalty Free GM's picture

Lot of people here sound like... same old, same old boring TT talk...
Wasted top defense picks and 2nd-3rd round mediocre WRs... No thank you. TT would be a perfect GM for you.

We wanted chance! Let’s be brave and try something new and refreshing! Give offense some LOVE :D
Ridley will be a pro bowler with ARod.

stockholder's picture

Any WR could be a pro bowler with A-Rod. Ok lets take Ridley and No defense. Is he better than James Lofton or Sterling Sharpe. ? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Your going to spend the #14 pick on a WR, when Adams just proved he got the money for what he did? You saw what CM3 ,and Raji did for the packers. You also saw Clarke ,Dix ,and King, in the last couple of years. And now you want to throw a #14 pick that should be a premium defensive player away. Sorry got to leave a dislike.

Royalty Free GM's picture

Don’t be so afraid to finally give offense and ARod some real draft help.
Let’s get Ridley and win some Superbowls.

stockholder's picture

RFG - I got this just for you. Ridley :6'1" 190lbs. Fast. Frame Thin! he’s not great in contested situations. Questionable Toughness. Route Tree still has questions after 3 years. Runs deep posts—usually in RPO or play-action scenarios—shallow crosses, and on a wide variety of screens. Feast or Famine target.

dobber's picture

"Any WR could be a pro bowler with A-Rod."

Since 2008, the following Packers QBs have been selected to the Pro Bowl...

Aaron Rodgers, 2009, 2011-12, 2014-16

Since 2008, the following Packers WRs have been selected to the Pro Bowl...

Donald Driver, Greg Jennings 2010
Greg Jennings 2011
Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson 2014
Davante Adams 2017 (as an injury replacement, only played 5 games with #12).

...and, well, that's it.

Cubbygold's picture

Terrible logic. A previous GM made unsuccessful defensive picks in recent years, so the new GM should use the pick on an offensive player? So if you tell me your wife burned dinner last night, I should make sure to get takeout for dinner tomorrow?

fthisJack's picture

way too early to target a specific position group even though they need a WR. there is a lot to play out in FA that will affect our first round draft choice. if a WR that can be a vertical threat is picked up in way is #14 going to be Ridley... if he happens to be there. besides...i don't think there is a WR in this draft that should go as high as #14.
there should be a handful of quality players at 14 to choose from, especially on defense. and, maybe, some team would be willing to mortgage the farm to move up and nab a QB.... get extra picks and be able to move up several times to get some very good football players in the top 100!

Cubbygold's picture

Always have to be willing to listen to offers, if someones going to mortgage the farm to move up to 14, GBs got to consider it. But with 12 picks I hope were the ones moving up this year. Wouldn't mind seeing Gute convert these 12 picks into 5-6 and end up being done with the draft by round 4

Packer Fan's picture

I totally agreed. What happened last year exposed a lot. For both TT and the system. And I agree with the comment that the only way to get another title is to replace people with free agents. But that doesn't mean the draft picks won't help or contribute. Need both to make it back.

Nick Perry's picture

The one thing that concerns me more than anything is this "Structure" Murphy has more less tied Gutekunst's hands with. I doubt we'll hear about it until after the fact, but is Gutekunst REALLY the the one that will make all the final roster decisions?

If Ball has ANY say in who the Packers bring in and sign, then it's impossible for Gutekunst to do his job 100%. Russ Ball is Ted Thompson with a worse eye for talent and better with a calculator and finance.

If Gutekunst is given FINAL say over all roster decisions like I believe he was told by Murphy right after he signed, then I feel a whole lot better about what will happen over the next few months. BUT if Russ Ball has ANY say over a FA being signed or not, then I think the Packers could be in even a worse position in a year or two. And not just Ball but Murphy and McCarthy too.

Let the man do his job. Let him have a fair chance at building a championship roster without ANY restrictions from the 3 amigos. IF that happens then I'm confident Gutekunst can make his mark in GB and do it quickly.

John Kirk's picture

Amen, NP. Let Gutekunst fire Mike McCarthy at the end of next season if that's what he wants to do. Nobody cares what Mark Murphy wants or doesn't as it pertains to the HC.

I think you're wise to to be skeptical of what is going on behind closed doors. Murphy seems like one shady double talking character to me. Hiding Ted under a new title making it sound like this is what Ted wanted. Does anyone think Ted went to Mark and said...Hey, can you just put me in a back room and strip me of my GM title? Murphy sold it that this was what Ted wanted. No. Maybe, Ted wanted this as opposed to being outright fired but this isn't what Ted wanted.

The Russ Ball thing is going to hang like a cloud until he's gone or the GM, himself. Does anyone think Brian is closer to Mark than Russ is and will have more sway being less close than Russ? I've questioned last seasons FA moves as too un Ted like to be Ted. I have strong suspicion that was Russ. I also believe it was Russ who handed out the extensions to Davante and Corey as the thinking was that he would be GM in a few days anyway. Otherwise, who authorized them? Ted...the guy who the decision to move on from was made long before? Very unlikely. Mark Murphy? Perhaps. Someone authorized them and believing it was Mark Murphy and Russ putting the numbers together is as good of bet as any.

We did get change but it seems to be fraught with all kinds of strings and conditions that aren't very clear to the fanbase. What our new structure is isn't unlike how many view the catch rule...nobody knows.

Nick Perry's picture

"We did get change but it seems to be fraught with all kinds of strings and conditions that aren't very clear to the fanbase. "

The string IMO is Russ ball. I think Gute and McCarthy will be able to work "Together" just fine, it's Thompson's clone I'm so skeptical about. I think Gutekunst was a hired mainly because the pressure from the Packers fan base and Mike McCarthy's threat to leave if Ball was the next GM. I mean how would have that looked to have Highsmith, Wolf, McCarthy, and probably Gutekunst all leave if he hired Ball. Talk about a mess!! IMO had Murphy hired Ball, this team would have headed in a direction which in a matter of a few seasons would resemble the 70's and 80's because I highly doubt Gutekunst hangs around either. Just think, Russ Ball as GM with NO ONE around to scout anymore. I just think this whole things has a stink to it. Hopefully Gutekunst is a good as I think he is and can gain complete control quickly, at least the control other Packers GM's had before him.

A GM who can't hire or fire his own Head Coach?? Gimme a fricken break, that's just wrong!

stockholder's picture

I believe Gute will still follow TTs lead. As a scout they believe in the draft, more than Free- Agency. With 11 picks in this draft. Talk is cheap about FA. The draft is about the future. (Exciting!) If the players come from the east coast, it will be on Gute. In 2014 I felt TT was getting blocked on Trades. If you play cards with someone long enough you know how to bet. The move was made for the future , and not MM. MM is now called a potato by doubters. The contract extension said they believe in MM. MM cannot be a distraction from the draft and the future. He's part of it.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

"Murphy seems like one shady double talking character to me."

Me, too. Now we're on the same page, JK.

lou's picture

Murphy via the restructure is the only one that has an "out" of the 3 although our new GM will get the benefit of a couple of poor drafts. If Murphy has to fire McCarty (he asked for that responsibility because he believed the new GM did not have the experience to do this nor the background to pick McCarty's replacement). If either the HC or GM fail Murphy can always go back to the "Harlan System" that turned the franchise around and not be fully account able, buying himself more time.

4thand1's picture

What culture are you talking about changing? The only thing that would be different would be if the Packers entered cap hell with a break the bank FA signing.

John Kirk's picture

The culture change from playing it safe to going for it. Does New England go into cap hell when they go for it with moves like Amendola, GIlmore, Burkhead, Cooks, Randy Moss, Chris Long, etc. Every year is it's own for New England. They try to win it every single season and when they don't it's a failure.

What's our culture? We have a fanbase that recites how we have the best QB and we're almost always in the playoffs and have a chance while spouting we're proud of draft and develop. (not going for it)

Which mindset is more conducive to winning SB's? Ours? New England's?

The culture needs to be... Our time is running out on Aaron Rodgers reign here. Let's get another ring or two or three. Not....let's just continue draft and developing and see what happens.

The contrast is stark as to what our culture has been and what it needs to be, but that's all predicated on what you want. Do you want to continue bragging about playoff appearances and having the best QB, or do you want to talk about winning SB's?

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Now, and the next few years, is the time. Absolutely correct. As far as AR's contract, I'd be fine if it had a seventh year with a ton of dead money.

Regarding TT, I'd be fine if Gute listened closely to TT about 2nd and 3rd round WRs, and OL available round 3-5. Seems to me like TT knows what he is doing in those regards. So, still can be a resource for Gute.

John Kirk's picture

Hey TGR...In thinking about this Aaron extension. What do you think about a 2 year extension? The thought has been floated by myself and others that he could play it out and be franchised to some significant savings. Could they extend him just two seasons and achieve close to that same end with a 2 year extension locking him up until he's 38?

The following season he would be 39. I'm not comfortable giving him a huge extension that goes into years where he's 39, 40 and beyond. I think 4 years is a good bet as to the maximum amount of time we're going to get great Aaron Rodgers.

I defer to you on the numbers stuff. What could they do in way of a 2 year extension? Workable?

Oh, and we are definitely on the same page about Mark Murphy. I think there was a misunderstanding earlier on him. Listening to him was harder than listening to Ted. He's a slick deceptive no presence whatsoever empty suit.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I have a fanpost on APC going up probably on the 27th regarding contract scenarios for AR. [As you know, I already have one fanpost up on APC on AR's extension.] Sadly, I, at least, can't figure out a good way to not rip up the contract for next two years and just extend him now for 2020, '21, and perhaps '22. I run into the Deion Sanders rule. Russ Ball no doubt will know all the possibilities, but he needs to get AR to sign on. Can we extend AR without handing him a nickel at the time of signing? I mean, we could convert about $19.5M of his compensation for 2018 to a signing bonus, but would AR be thrilled with signing an extension when he gets handed a check for $19M when Stafford was handed a $50M check? I am assuming that I can't increase AR's 2018 cap hit from its current $20.5M to say $28M, since then our cap space for signing FAs this year would be $10M - $3.6M for rookies, or roughly $6.5M. For that, we could probably re-sign Burnett and then we're done.

The other thing is that while 2019 isn't bad (Dix, Monty, Rollins, Kendricks, Ryan, along with guys I expect us to deal with this season, Cobb, Nelson, CM3), 2020 potentially is a big year for losing our own players: Daniels, Bulaga (both of them will be 28 then), AR of course, Crosby, Randall, Martinez, Lowry, Fackrell, Murphy and Spriggs will all be UFAs. Some guys might play themselves out of the worry area, but others, I am hopeful, might blossom and become real concerns about losing them. 2020 might be a bad year to have AR's cap hit explode.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

JK, fanpost on AR's extension is up at APC.

John Kirk's picture

I read it even before I saw this post! Man, it looks like no matter how it's divvied up it's going to be substantial. Neither of those two scenarios look good to me. All that dead cap after 4 years not to mention the cap cost. I guess we can hope the cap continues it's meteoric rise year after year. I make the mistake of looking at numbers 3 years out and thinking of them in this year's terms.

John Kirk's picture

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I was encouraged reading over at that the cap might be over 179 million for 2018.

Since '61's picture

In terms of changing the culture what Gute needs to do is create a sense of urgency. IMO this has been a problem with Packers since the 2011 season. I think there has been a feeling that with Rodgers we can be good enough to win in any season.

The lack of urgency was evident not only in a lack of FA signings but even obvious in the play of our defense and in the team's on going acceptance of poor tackling, poor technigue, sloppy play and stupid penalties. Mediocre coaches like Slocum and Capers were allowed to remain in their roles for far too long.

If Gute wants to bring FAs to Green Bay he needs to show there is an urgency to win now, not just to spend money. Gute needs to instill a sense of urgency from the top down and demonstrate a total commitment to winning now and not 3-5 years from now as TT did year after year. There is no tomorrow in sports, today is all that matters because you may never have another chance tomorrow. Lombardi and Belichick have understood that better than any others, hence their sustained records of success. Thanks, Since '61

Rossonero's picture

You nailed it!

Since '61's picture

Thanks Rossonero! Since '61

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I just wrote now is the time, then I read your comment. 100% accurate. MM runs this operation like an old time machine politician doling out jobs, roster spots and playing time to his friends and supporters rather than on merit.

Since '61's picture

TGR - I'm not sure if it's a good 'ole boys network or maybe just a comfort zone with certain players or coaches that develops over time. However we define it the result is the same, lack of a sense of urgency. Hopefully the new regime and the new coaches will create a sense of urgency for management and on the field. Thanks, Since '61

Spock's picture

Cory, per your piece, "Ted Thompson would rather walk across hot burning coals than spend money on free agents — from his own team or elsewhere.". Elsewhere, sure, but he wouldn't "spend money... from his own team" is pure hogwash. Packer fans never seemed to "count" signing our own free agents as using free agency. It's a "the grass is always greener" syndrome. I honestly don't expect a lot of "flash" free agent moves this off-season. Maybe Gute somehow packages draft picks for a big trade (although I doubt it). As for those draft comp picks it seems a lot of people want to bash Ted's lack of FA moves, but not credit him for the considerable amount of draft capitol coming up. I wish TT would have used FA to shore up spots on the roster, but you can't say he didn't leave the new Packers' GM "more swings of the bat" in the draft. Unfortunately, in the last several years there were way too many swings and misses on TT's defensive picks, LOL.

tincada's picture

Right on. If they don't do something spectacular this year with FAs the parade is over. This rebuild from Terrible Ted's deconstruction efforts is going to take time. AR doesn't have much time. I would not be surprised or pissed if AR doesn't see a vast change in the TT's inaction and walks next year.

DD's picture

I've been saying this all along and been criticized. AARON won't sign an extension this year and will be a free agent. Why not? Either put a winning team around him with better weapons on offense and especially the defense or he mat test the market. Why not? He'll be paid huge!! Loyalty? To who, McCarthy, Capers, Thompson? Lambeau mystic? Lol. Ask Lang, Favre, and others. Lol. Lol. Lol. Buckle up die hard fans as we may get the surprise of our life. But we still will have the great white hope, MM!

tincada's picture

Which MM, the green or gold? Murphy or Mac? The longer the Packers wait or don't renegotiate his contract the bigger the possibility he hits the road. Inaction is the Packers mantra until all the good options are gone, then whoa be me there aren't any good FAs out there. AKA Marcus Peters.
We'll just have to rely on Terrible Ted's worn out philosophy.

fthisJack's picture

he's not going anywhere. the franchise tag doesn't allow people of his caliber to leave town when their contracts are up.

Cubbygold's picture

Well, if he walks next year he'll be sitting on his couch for the following season. Hes not a FA next year, and would be franchise tagged at least twice. He's got negotiating power, but not till hes 37

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Packers compensatory picks only include one 4th rounder two 5th rounders and a 6th rounder

We should have at least been given a third rounder for TJ Lang or Micah Hyde or Casey Hayward or somebody. Just ridiculous.

stockholder's picture


stockholder's picture

Your right John. Hayward was let go because of injuries. Was he cut? I think they decided to let him test the market. The head scratcher is how he got over those injuries. And someone still paid him that much. The packers thought he was getting to slow. They moved him. Something had to be wrong with his legs. His all-pro status showed slow progress, and lack of Faith. Even Hyde had the same Quad problems. As did Randall. So whats going on in GB that all these guys have the same problem. Even Williams,Shields and House had shoulder and Quads hurting. Capers defense needed to go. I agree stop the injuries!

flackcatcher's picture

Both you and Spock sum up the situation pretty well. I now wonder if TT was blocked in signing any of the Packer FA, but with the way the free agent market has played out, all of the players talked about would have been out of the Packer's wheel house. Huge contracts, could not pay them. I can't prove this, but I think the Packers were getting ready to clear cap space for Rodgers contract. Looking back at how the Packers did not bid on their own, and the number of comp picks and the number of high value contracts coming off the board next year, points to a sign and rebuild. I would not be surprised if the Packers have the same, or greater number of draft picks next year. Hell of a gamble, but one the Packers must take to be in the hunt for a Superbowl in the future. If true, then this will be the last year for Cobb, Nelson, with Burnett already good as gone. And if any of this is true, then we fans may owe Ted Thompson for taking the hit to prepare the Packers for the next run.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Interesting, but I think, Flak, that there are some problems with this theory.

1) How was GB going to clear cap space by letting guys go so they could re-sign AR? You can't mean letting Hayward, Hyde, Tretter, Lang, etc. go, since we don't have any cap space at present. If that was the plan, it gets an F. If you mean letting Burnett walk, yes that saves some cap, but If we're clearing cap space for AR, GB is ignoring lots of low hanging fruit (i.e. under-performing contracts). If we're clearing cap space, Nelson, Cobb, CM3 in addition to Burnett have to be in that mix.

2) 4 comp picks is a lot. TT might have thought 4 comp picks would put us over the top, if not in 2018, maybe 2019. Things would look brighter if they had been a 3rd, 2 fourths and a 5th, but it is what it is. Lang got more than expected, probably Hyde as well; Tretter and Cook perhaps a bit less, Gute is going to have to make hay this draft.

3) How are we going to have 11 or 12 draft picks in 2019? Burnett should garner a 4th, but that presupposes that we don't sign any significant FAs. Maybe we don't (if so, man, will Gute be unpopular). The rest of our FAs (Brooks, House, Evans, Goode, Dial, RR, John, Goodson, Janis) are not going to be worth much if anything in terms of comp picks. Even if we do get some 7th round comp picks, the comp type picks from the 2019 draft start to play well in 2020. The only way to get extra picks is by trading back.

4) Keeping CM3, Nelson and Cobb in 2018 so we can get comp picks for them is a dubious idea (no, I am not clear if this is one you expressed). First, entirely possible that these guys don't sign for much in 2019, and Nelson might retire. We don't get the comp picks until 2020. Since they will be 4ths and 5ths, maybe even a 6th, their second year jump, if any, comes in 2021. That isn't a good plan.

It really helps to hit on 3+ picks every year. And I don't mean grading on a curve. If you have 12 picks, hit nicely on 4 with a couple of depth players.

tincada's picture

"TT might have thought 4 comp picks would put us over the top, if not in 2018, maybe 2019." You really mean 2020 or 2021 don't you? There's always a dream in Terrible Ted's head.

Qoojo's picture

Not sure if Cory understands what culture means. Packers have a culture of winning due to Rodgers. I disagree that Green Bay is not a destination of choice. Hard for FAs to come here when TT never participated in FA until bargain basement time for the most part.

Unless a FA is special, it's stupid to open the checkbook just to open it. It should be used to fill the team with missing pieces and quality depth. It seems like people are screaming to spend big because TT rarely did anything.

Vikings have been the "winner" of the off-season almost every year for the past 15 years in the north. It's really helped them out. The big signings are more about giving fans something to talk about during the off-season.

CheesyTex's picture

Wouldn't it be nice to see the team's culture change from offense dependent to balanced? Or maybe just have an aggressive culture emerge on the defensive side? What ever happened to McCarthy's stated goal of having a Pittsburgh-like defense?

John Kirk's picture

We don't have a culture of winning here. Winning is measured in SB's. I think semantics are critical when it comes to how we define "winning" and "successful".

I believe teams that are about real winning aren't satisfied with anything but winning a SB. Do you think the Patriots think they had a successful season in losing to the Eagles in the SB? Do you think the Steelers feel like they had a successful season losing to the Jaguars? Juxtapose this 3 minute + answer justifying that we did, in fact, have a successful season in getting blown out at Atlanta in the NFC Championship game: (you don't have to wait, it's first question and 3+ minute answer)

Are you kidding me with that ^^^^^^^^^? What winner talks about what the ultimate goal is, says he's not hedging and then twice or was it 3 times reaffirms what a successful season they just had? He put the emphasis in this answer on the season being successful while downplaying failing to reach the goal. A winner doesn't do that. A winner puts the focus on the fact they fell short, not the justification of it. How any fan who believes the Packers should be winning SB's could listen to that answer and not feel nauseated is puzzling to me.

TWO DIFFERENT WAYS TO LOOK AT IT???? There's winning and not winning. Nothing else.

Qoojo's picture

I take it you have not been a fan since the early 70s? I do agree that they should have won a couple more super bowls in MM's tenure.

Your posts are regularly amusing. It's fun watching that rainy cloud following you everywhere.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

IDK, McCarthy defined a 7-9 season, a losing season, a season we didn't even make the playoffs, as a successful season. How low do you want to go, Qoojo? Injuries aren't generally considered an excuse, but I suppose an exception to that rule could be made for AR's absence. I'm not a purist on this: getting to the Conf. Championship game means we're facing the best of the rest in our conference in a single elimination game.

I was a GB fan during the 1970s. Doesn't mean I thought any of them were successful. Maybe 1972, 1982, and 1989 seemed successful since they in some ways exceeded expectations.

Qoojo's picture

My only point with the 70s talk is Dr Doom-n-gloom talking about what a complete failure the packers are if they do not win the superbowl, and that they do not have a culture of success. The past 5-6 years have been exercise in futility with the defense fielded. After the dust settled from the season/off-season changes, it's sounds like there was a lot of passing the buck around, which produced the new power structure with Murphy as defacto owner. MM kept saying not getting good enough players, so he kept Capers around too long.

That '89 team is still one of my favorites after watching them through the 80s. Hell yes that '89 team was successful, even highly successful. Plus, Ditka can suck on that replay game. Asterisk or not, Packers got the W.

John Kirk's picture

it's all a matter of perspective. I became a fan back in 1980. I lived through the lean years aplenty watching Randy Wright, Mike TOM cZACK (as Jim Irwin loved calling him for some odd reason), The Wizard aka Blair Kiel, Anthony Dilweg, Rich Campbell. I still lament Robbie Bosco.

My perspective is influenced by our QB. If you're not regularly in SB's with the advantage you have at QB, you're doing something wrong. Either Aaron is or isn't the best in the game. If he's not, then my perspective would change. I believe he's the best to ever throw it. So, with that in mind, at that position our results have been less than acceptable. Again, if I've got Aaron pegged wrong in my mind, then I'm all wrong on this.

New England is the standard...they had a dry spell for some years. However, they've been in EIGHT SuperBowls with Brady to ONE? C'mon. This dismissal of New England as not really counting because a Packers fan doesn't want them to has always made me smile. The argument that we shouldn't use them as a litmus test is based on some of the most emotional avoidance type arguments I've ever read. They're downright embarrassing. There is no reason not to expect similar results with Rodgers as New England has with Brady. NONE. Oh, but we have MM. Good, then FIRE him and find your Belichick. Don't settle and say...Who is better? We make the playoffs for x straight years so things are pretty good because we're not Cleveland. That is loser talk.

My perspective is...anyone who gets excited about regular season "winning" needs much higher goals. Anyone who says at least we're not "x" team speaks in loser's language.

Our own HC said the goal is the SB and not reaching it is falling short. If there's a 4th and 1 play and we come up inches short, I don't praise the 4th down attempt as being successful. The ball was turned over on downs and it doesn't matter how close we were or how incredible the play was to come up short, it still is short. I think almost every fan would agree with that line of thinking that coming up short on 4th down is failing to get a 1st down and they expect we convert a 4th and 1. Somehow, with the great QB advantage we have that same line of thinking doesn't translate to winning a SB as it pertains to coming up short.

Winners win. Losers justify not winning. Tell me you've not seen years of justification here? This team won...ONCE, and then thought it was their birthright to be thought of that way since. The losing mindset comes from somewhere. I'll look at MM because no sold out for winning HC is giving the answer MM gave to the blowout in Atlanta. I hate losing more than I love winning doesn't apply to the Packers and good is definitely the enemy of great.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Okay, Qoojo, I'll buy that response.

Riverboy's picture

Talk is cheap. I know it's early but so far I haven't heard or seen Gutekunst differ from his former boss in any way. He has the ability to make a trade or two before free agency. But so far - nothing! He can also sign his own free agents, but it's been crickets since Gutes took over. I'm afraid that with the Rodgers contract extension on the docket that Gutes will be very reluctant to make any moves for veteran talent until he knows exactly what the Aaron Rodgers number is going to be. That may be prudent, but prudent won't get it done with this roster. It's really up to Aaron Rodgers and his willingness to do a cap friendly deal that will determine how aggressive Gutenkunst can be in attracting proven NFL talent to Green Bay.

Tundraboy's picture

If changing the culture means using all avenues to improve the team each and every year, I'm all for it.

That means taking action. No more stumbling through, praying for no injuries and relying on hope. Hope that last year's draft picks make 2nd year jumps, prior year picks now turned into long term development projects, finally get it, or an UDFA or two contributes, and a new defensive package solves the defensive failures.

tincada's picture

Seriously? You're dreamin with the M&Ms running the show.

Tundraboy's picture

I know but I do have a sliver of hope with Petttine and Philbin back, that the creaky ship may somehow inch in the right direction.

Royalty Free GM's picture

I’m afraid of that nothing will change.

Hey, at least we got a new DC even if five years too late.
Maybe we should wait five more years to get some fresh quality WR help for ARod?

Cut the crap... and get Ridley & Richardson.

DD's picture

Change culture? Lol. Has the culture changed since 2010? TT deserves some blame a ling with Capers, but one huge thing still remains: Mike McCarthy!! So change the culture? Wish, hope, and write your hearts out, but we still have no change McMike!! Dream on, Dream on. Hop on the disappointment train again.

DD's picture

Change culture? Lol. Has the culture changed since 2010? TT deserves some blame a ling with Capers, but one huge thing still remains: Mike McCarthy!! So change the culture? Wish, hope, and write your hearts out, but we still have no change McMike!! Dream on, Dream on. Hop on the disappointment train again.

croatpackfan's picture

"Ted Thompson would rather walk across hot burning coals than spend money on free agents — from his own team or elsewhere."

Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett, Julius Peppers, Brandon Chillar, Letroy Guion, Jarred Cook, Lence Kendricks, Martellus Bennett, Jahri Evans, Randall Cobb, Brian Bulaga, Jeff Saturday, etc...

Cory, are you receiving money from FA?

I'm sure that there were more FA signed during TT time I didn't listed, but I think my list shows you that you are wrong in your claims...

Also, I learned that fans favorite FA are mainly busts, even bigger than Martellus Bennett...

And, at the end, can you give us the list of FA signings made by Ron Wolf, after he get Brett Favre in trade. How many and how many Hall of famers...

And, again, nobody here do not want to consider that you need 2 for tango (some players would never ever come to Green Bay) and that Packers do not have large Salary Cap space to sign 5 expensive FA. Also, when you sign expensive FA and he got hurt/injured you have no space in Salary Cap to sign new one...

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Reggie White (HOFer), DE Sean Jones, DT Santana Dotson (that's most of our super bowl winning defensive line, all starters, if you didn't notice, plus he picked up NTGilbert Brown off waivers in 1993, meaning that the entire starting DL contained no GB draft picks), starting FS Eugene Robinson, Super Bowl MVP Desmond Howard, OC Frank Winters, WR Don Beebe (700 yards with a 17.9 yd average in 1996 - the deep speed threat we so desperately need now), LT Bruce Wilkerson (saved the SB season by playing LT pretty well at the end of the season and all 3 playoff games). That's 5 starters on defense, 3 on offense, not drafted or originally picked up by GB in the super bowl winning year.

Wolf also picked up OG Harry Galbreath, OG Tunch Ilkin, WR Mark Clayton, WR Mark Ingram, NT Bill Maas, RB Reggie Cobb, S Pat Terrell, OG Guy McIntyre, LB Fred Strickland, LB Ron Cox, OG Raleigh McKenzie, RB Raymont Harris, DE John Thierry, LB Mike Morton and NT Russell Maryland. Someone with a better memory than I have can correct me, but I don't recall any big money misses.

To be fair, TT had some big successes in Woodson, Pickett, Peppers, along with Evans, who was a nice pick-up, and Frank Walker and Chillar, who contributed and weren't expensive. TT had some misses, Bennett, Saturday and Marquand Manuel, who each cost a noticeable amount if not cap killers like Sherman bought, but the rest of his FAs (OT Adrian Klemm, OG Matt O'Dwyer, LB Ben Taylor, WR Marc Boerigter, OL Duke Preston, DE Phillip Merling, DT Daniel Muir, TE Kendricks, DE Hargrove,), weren't very good. I'd put House in sort of a neutral position: he played, mostly hurt, and cost a bit, but not tons.

I would suggest that Wolf was much better in FA than TT. I don't think it is even close.

Nick Perry's picture

That's a link that actually compares Wolfs FA signings to Thompsons.....It's not even close.

Shavager's picture

croatpackfan, C'MON MAN! Wolf's FA's? HALF the SB team in '96&97 were FA's: Eugene Robinson, Sean Jones, Santana Dotson, Reggie White, Desmond Howard-'96 SB MVP, Andre Rison, Frankie "Bag of Donuts" Winters, Don Beebe, Gilbert Brown, Jeff Dellenbach, Craig Hentrich, LB Ron Cox, Keith Jackson, Lamont Hollinquest, Roderick Mullen, Mike Prior, Bruce Wilkerson, etc..--the '96 SB Champ had 26 FA's or players signed from other teams on that team that Wolf had picked up building the team. The '97 team included Steve Bono, Seth Joyner, Paul Frase, Roell Preston added to the squad to replace several who left (Sean Jones retired,Andre Rison released, etc), while most won't be remembered as HOF quality--most made the Packers a SB team with their roles.

billybobton's picture

While all GMs hedge and keep 'their' guys around to long nobody did it like teddie.

RRODGERS should have been gone and he is just the tip of the iceberg.

Before putting to much time and effort into 'late picks' and other things explain how D JONES took thousands of snaps in GB and splinters everywhere else

it is so much more than AROD putting numbers into J JONES and Jennings hands, it is team wide. TT simply refused to cut a draft choice except such total and dismal failures as BB and after that one year QB disaster teddie should have been sent packing.

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