Confessions of a Polluted Mindset: O -T - Hey!
The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.
By JerseyAl
Hey! The word around town is that there are football players in shorts running around the Packers' practice fields.Yes, it's that most glorious of times known as OTAs!. These are still the voluntary practices, but attendance is almost perfect, which tells you something about the passion in these young guys and their belief in what's attainable this season.
As is usually the case, the first OTAs are also a time when you find out things that have been brewing behind the scenes.
First off, the injury bug seems to have already bitten the Packers. Zach Tom and Tucker Kraft both suffered pectoral injuries over the offseason, joining head coach Matt LaFleur as members of that dubious club. LaFleur hurt himself lifting weights and while it hasn't been reported, one would likely assume Tom and Kraft likely suffered the same fate. Tom and Kraft are expected to be out "at least" until the beginning fo training camp. Kraft's arm was in a sling and his injury is considered more serious than Tom's.
Josh Jacobs has the dreaded H-word - a hamstring injury. He did at least participate in warmups though, and is expected to be fully recovered soon.
We did get some positive injury news as Kingsley Enagbare, widely thought to have suffered an ACL injury in the Dallas playoff game, was participating as a "full go" in OTAs. It turns out Enagbare didn't suffer a tear and never required surgery. Here he is running around at OTAs in case you need some visual evidence.
Kingsley Enagbare is practicing. Remarkable. pic.twitter.com/cBNQj706Yx
— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) May 21, 2024
More good news was heard on the Christian Watson front. After working with the experts down in UW-Madison over the offseason, they think they found the root of his hamstring issues. It seems at some point, the strength in his two legs became asymmetrical, as in, not the same. After identifying that, they gave Watson a plan for getting that symmetry back and Watson says he feels really good and thinks it's working. A fully healthy Watson would be HUGE for this offense. You can listen to his locker room interview here.
The more I read about Packers draft pick Marshawn Lloyd, the more I can't understand how he managed to stay somewhat under the radar with regards to draft content. I saw plenty of hype about other running backs leading up to the draft but not that much about Lloyd. Wes Hodkiewicz at Packers.com just did a long form article about Lloyd and you'll be impressed by the dedication and work ethic the young man and his family employed to allow him to live his dream. I mean, his mother drove him to high school two hours each way so he could play at a private school with a strong football program. Definitely a great read worth your time.
Some guys just can't stop talking. It could get interesting when the 49ers come to town.
I can’t even lie I’m having so much fun playing football again… The situation I was in was making me lose my love for the game but I’m back having fun again and I love that for myself. Thank you God 🙏🏿
— De'Vondre Campbell (@Came_Along_Way) May 20, 2024
My thoughts exactly when I saw Wes's tweet below:
It's still incredible that the last S&C crew was apparently tried EVERYTHING to figure out the injury issue, yet somehow proper warmup got overlooked. #SMH https://t.co/UZQlQRGNPr
— Packers Weekly Podcast (@PackWeeklyPod) May 21, 2024
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
__________________________
"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther. Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
__________________________
Comments (94)
Cheezehead72
May 22, 2024 at 06:09 am
I am starting to think it is something in the water causing these hamstring injuries. DO NOT DRINK THE WATER!!!
TKWorldWide
May 22, 2024 at 08:14 am
No problem!
Oh, wait…do they use the water to make beer?
dobber
May 22, 2024 at 08:29 am
Depends on the beer...
DoubleJ
May 22, 2024 at 08:31 am
I don't consider what Hinterland and Title Town Breweries make to be beer.
Spock
May 22, 2024 at 11:20 am
In the early '70s my dad worked at Miller Brewing and the joke going around the brewery was "Don't pee in the Milwaukee River; they're making Old Milwaukee today."
Coldworld
May 22, 2024 at 06:09 am
Campbell not being a fan of playing in a Barry D or for the man? Whatever one might think of Barry, Campbell does kind of owe his continued career to Gute bringing him here and Barry playing him. Perhaps it’s the direction change Barry took in years 2 & 3 that’s the issue, but it still seems a particularly disingenuous whinge from Campbell.
LambeauPlain
May 22, 2024 at 08:26 am
Not a fan of Barry Ball...at all...but Joe Barry seemed like a nice man. As you stated, the Packers essentially plucked Campbell off the scrap heap and give him the best stretch of his career. I doubt he will ever see those heights again.
Campbell's going to blame the Packers for his sharp decline...even though he probably slid back to his "mean" as a player. He's a malcontent and the Packers have little tolerance for them.
Marty Bennett was the poster child for a coupon clipper/lazy injury faker/locker room cancer. Z. Smith's act wore thin even after he also enjoyed the best stretch of his career as a Packer. Now he's bouncing around league as his salary demands are getting out of line with his actual value on and off field. Probably too much smoke in his brain.
A common theme with team Gutey's draft choices is to select athletes with a thick resume of college production AND prospects that are team leaders & Captains. I believe it is a key reason the youngest team in the NFL almost made it to the NFCCG.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 22, 2024 at 09:02 am
Well said Lambeau!
Bitternotsour
May 22, 2024 at 08:58 am
He's playing for less money than he was scheduled to be playing for, he had to move, he's with a new system and guys he doesn't know - I'd probably be pissed too.
TKWorldWide
May 22, 2024 at 09:21 am
But he’s “having so much fun playing football again”!?
CanPackFan
May 22, 2024 at 09:42 am
You're being overly kind to Campbell and his immature and I'll thought-out comments. Let's substitute "disingenuous whinge" with "ungrateful a**hole". If he had a beef with Barry (like most of us did), just say it. He got a long term, $10M per year contract out-of GB when his career was in the dumpster and he's trashing the team? Good luck SF.
jont
May 22, 2024 at 10:06 am
"If he had a beef with Barry, just say it."
Even better, don't say it. Move on, focus on your new team.
Alberta_Packer
May 22, 2024 at 01:05 pm
"whinge" - excellent. So I checked his PFF whinge grade for 2023-24. 99.9%
Packerpasty
May 23, 2024 at 09:27 am
Campbell looked like he had cement shoes on last season, or was he just not playing hard? Either way, adios, glad the lockeroom cancer is gone...my bet the Niners wont put up with him for too long if he starts to sulk...
Starrbrite
May 23, 2024 at 11:14 pm
Exactly, I complained more about Campbell’s play than I did about Barry.
jvole
May 22, 2024 at 06:34 am
If by some miracle Barry would have been kept another year, I think the defense would have gone into full revolt. The guy had lost the locker room.
GregC
May 22, 2024 at 06:56 am
Well, he lost De'Vondre Campbell anyway. Not sure if he lost anybody else. Maybe Jaire Alexander at one point, but we've never heard what the issue was for him, and he seemed fine after the suspension.
I take Campbell's statements with a grain of salt. There is probably some truth to them, but I don't think it looks good to bad-mouth your former team. He needs to shut up and prove himself on the field.
T7Steve
May 22, 2024 at 07:03 am
I think that the attitudes showed themselves with injuries. When a guy isn't happy with a situation, little nagging things become bigger problems that used to be easy to fight and play through.
Bitternotsour
May 22, 2024 at 08:56 am
and you're going to explain Christian Watson away how exactly?
T7Steve
May 22, 2024 at 12:18 pm
Was talking about the attitude on defense. How did Watson come into the conversation?
For what it's worth, I think Watson would have liked to and tried to get on the field and the team had to put the brakes on him. Totally different scenario compared to the attitudes on D.
cdoemel
May 24, 2024 at 04:32 pm
When JA was given the suspension LaFleur said they had good talks. I think LaFleur may have tipped his hand that Barry wasn’t gonna be around in 2024.
Bitternotsour
May 22, 2024 at 09:03 am
Jvole - that's utterly ridiculous. The defense was balling out at the end of the season, and finished the year in the top ten in points allowed. Jaire's beef was with Matt LaFleur over not being selected a captain in his home town. Campbell is gone because we got younger, faster, and cheaper players to replace an aging though previous high quality player.
Campbell is bitter over
1. Not having his contract extended
2. Having to move to a new team and accept less money
3. Not having any guarantees that he'll have a job at the beginning of the season.
LambeauPlain
May 22, 2024 at 10:17 am
The defense, at the actual "end" of the season was certainly not Barry Ball Balling out.
It became their brand to be predictably unable to finish games when the opponent had the ball in the 4th quarter after the O gave them the lead. Dallas was also emblematic during the Love and Jones show...the D got so predictably soft the Packers had to put the O starters back in.
Points given up are important. More important are WHEN those points were given up. Barry Ball gave them up at the worst possible time.
I am glad Barry Ball is dead in Green Bay...finally.
jvole
May 22, 2024 at 10:22 am
BNS we are all playing 'Carnac the Magnificent'. But the fact you numbered your list makes it seem really well thought out! :)
croatpackfan
May 22, 2024 at 01:29 pm
LambeauPlain, MLF said 3 or 4 games before the end of the season that he will take sometim with D in preparation period - that is why we saw part time every game press coverage, not zone.
Barry lost the game vs 49ers. His preventive D gave 49ers chance to march down the field with easy, they said thank you, and make it with slow pace, so that they will not let enough time for Packers. I believe is where Barry lost his job - because that game when he showed he didt learn nothing from MLF interference...
Leatherhead
May 23, 2024 at 12:46 pm
Barry lost the game to the 49ers by holding the best team in the NFC below their average, at home, despite multiple turnovers by the Packers. And then he changed into #10 jersey and threw a game ending pick with time on the clock and timeouts available.
LLCHESTY
May 22, 2024 at 11:36 am
"The defense was balling out at the end of the season"
Weren't the Tampa and Carolina games at the end of the season. Balling out indeed.
Matt
May 22, 2024 at 06:37 am
1. Fully healthy Watson for most of the season is what could be a difference maker in many games. Even him being on snap count and playing on 90% gas he upgraded our offense.
2. As long as our QB wants to attend voluntary practices we are heading into the right direction. The later he gets into "I know everything" mode, the better. Btw what do these pros do at home when they skip voluntary trainings? I'd go there even for curiosity to find out about new guys. But I've never been a pro and never will.
3. It would be fun to see Campbells face when someday Barry would become his DC again :)
jvole
May 22, 2024 at 06:43 am
I think there is zero chance Barry becomes a DC again.
DoubleJ
May 22, 2024 at 07:45 am
The nepotism in the NFL is strong. Therefore it wouldn't surprise me if he gets another DC position if he works with another staff that has a successful defense.
dobber
May 22, 2024 at 07:54 am
I think it more likely that he might get a shot a a default interim DC if some defense he's coaching LBs on is miserably underachieving and the DC is dismissed mid season.
jvole
May 22, 2024 at 08:22 am
I'll eat a foam cheese hat if any of these scenarios actually happen.
Bitternotsour
May 22, 2024 at 09:06 am
The familiar is a constant draw in the NFL.
LambeauPlain
May 22, 2024 at 08:34 am
He's had his three strikes as a DC. The DC job is just a horrible fit for him. Peter Principle in action...being promoted to your personal level of incompetence.
Cheezehead72
May 22, 2024 at 06:45 am
True professional players workout on their own when they skip voluntary OTAs. Others might not work out as much. Many of the players that skip voluntary OTAs have homes and families in another city and they want to spend more time with them. Some just would rather do their own thing. I do not put much on a veteran skipping voluntary OTAs but I do like seeing the younger players there.
dobber
May 22, 2024 at 07:56 am
Most of these guys have workout bonuses that include OTA participation, but the teams don't often withhold it for star players.
Cheezehead72
May 22, 2024 at 08:33 am
The funny thing is the amount of the bonus is little for a star player.
LLCHESTY
May 22, 2024 at 11:44 am
It depends on the security they have at their position. Jonathan Garvin skipped the OTAs for two years in a row, he didn't get the chance to skip a third one. He gets to make a lot less money in the USFL now.
dobber
May 22, 2024 at 07:57 am
"But I've never been a pro and never will."
Trying to keep your amateur status intact for the Paris games, huh? ;)
Matt
May 22, 2024 at 03:38 pm
I knew my plan will be revealed! :) The truth is the childhood dream of being a pro athlete never died inside of me. I love sport but seems like it doesn't love me. And the funny thing is in contrast to all of you Cheeseheaders... I've never played football. It is completely unknown in Poland (except a narrow group of amateurs).
T7Steve
May 22, 2024 at 06:59 am
You could see Cambell's slide starting the year after his All-Pro season when they drafted Quay.
He attributed all his success to coming to Green Bay and being promised and kept at the Mike position. He said he never did well on other teams when he had to switch around and do the all the other jobs too. As soon as Quay got there, he lost his steady job and the headset. Barry not using his players to their best ability again? Go figure.
That said, I'm glad all the toxicity with players and coaches have left the building (I hope). That's a thumbs up for MLF.
dobber
May 22, 2024 at 07:48 am
I'm glad I read through the posts before I wrote mine because you saved me a lot of writing, T.
Campbell had a resurgence his first year, was given a nice contract and a feeling that he was 'the man', and then the Packers drafted Quay. Now they're playing way more 2-ILB sets and Campbell's role changed pretty significantly. He was getting criticized by fans and the media for not being the same player and living up to that deal, and all of a sudden those nagging injuries became even more naggy.
Circumstances changed, and--frankly--the Packers might have just caught lightning in a bottle for that one season. Whatever the case, the Packers couldn't keep paying a guy who couldn't stay on the field, who sounds to have a little bit of "thin skin" and might have been a festering sore in the locker room. The team won't say anything and Campbell will be free to air his laundry.
Tundraboy
May 22, 2024 at 07:45 am
🤔 well at least he had the decency to wait till the onset of the next season.
Nah bullshit, Barry or no Barry, there were games towards the end of he last year where his dogging it definitely impacted our ability to meet the moment when it mattered most.
I ignored most of the headlines on this simply because I'm tired of whining excuses for obvious lack of effort., waiting of course to see what my fellow chtv members thought of this gem.
Well now I got that out of my system. so happy that football is back, minus the usual injuries of course.
Rory P Scrotem
May 22, 2024 at 08:01 am
So...if what was done in Madison re: Christian's hammy was so successful, will others follow suit? JOSH JACOBS ARE YOU READING/LISTENING??? ;)
Johnblood27
May 23, 2024 at 08:12 am
Do you have a brother named Harry?
mrtundra
May 22, 2024 at 08:07 am
Injuries are always a concern. I'm just glad the Packers are deeper, at most positions, this year. GO PACK, GO!!!
Packer_Fan
May 22, 2024 at 08:10 am
Joe Barry was terrible for the Packers. I don't think the players wanted to play for him. The Campbell post is indicative of the issue. What defensive player likes a passive scheme. Alexander's issues from last year is another example. Glad Barry is gone.
Better have Jacob's hamstring asymmetry item looked at. And what's this all about with the pectoral injuries. Better get that fixed and soon. Jacob's issue is troubling because he is learning a new system
Vachio
May 22, 2024 at 08:13 am
The S&C world is largely a cluster**ck, even at the pro level. It's very much an old boy's/"who you know"/nepotism kind of thing rather than a competence thing. I've spoken to high level S&C coaches as recently as last year who still think squats are bad for your knees and deadlifts are bad for your back, despite the fact that both myths have been resoundingly debunked for at least 20 years. I could give a regular person who gets most of their info from the local news or YouTube a pass, but a professional S&C coach for a major program thinking that...in 2023? SMH.
Here's another perfect example. Guys like Max McGee could go out drinking all night and then play an intense 60 minutes of football without pulling a hamstring, yet today's athletes seem to pull one tying their shoes. We've supposedly gotten light years ahead in the S&C department since the 60s, but simple injuries like that are vastly more common. The opposite "should" be true. And this isn't some "people were just tougher back then" BS like some folks will try to say it is, this is one of many examples of how modern S&C practitioners often miss the forest for the trees. They're overlooking basic hydration and conditioning principles in favor of whatever trendy crap is popular at the moment.
dobber
May 22, 2024 at 08:27 am
"We've supposedly gotten light years ahead in the S&C department since the 60s, but simple injuries like that are vastly more common. The opposite "should" be true."
The players of Max McGee's day were not nearly as tuned up and twitchy as today's athletes. There were no weight-lifting regimens and off-season training programs then. Today's players would destroy those players in terms of physical strength, speed, and stamina. The price to be paid is that the body and especially muscle fibers and connective tissues can only take so much strain. These guys train and play on the edge of that and push it on a daily basis--in-season and out of season.
LeotisHarris
May 22, 2024 at 10:53 am
And, if we consider the bigger picture, Max suffered from an early form of Alzheimer's the last five years of his life, and died after a fall off his roof at age 75. He likely wasn't bulletproof during his paying days either, and that took its toll.
LLCHESTY
May 22, 2024 at 11:56 am
Jim Otto, who passed away Sunday, said he figured he played through at least 20 concussions in his career. He was a tough player and it cost him dearly; 28 knee operations and around 70 operations overall. From Wikipedia:
"Otto described near-death experiences from medical procedures, including fighting off three life-threatening infections due to complications from his artificial joints. During one six-month stretch, he was without a right knee joint because he had to wait for an infection to heal before another artificial knee could be implanted. Otto eventually had to have his right leg amputated"
That's what playing 210 consecutive games back in that time period could do to a body.
cdoemel
May 24, 2024 at 04:36 pm
Case in point in baseball is all the Tommy John’s being done. When you’ve got pitchers who throw 100 95+ mph a game it’s no wonder.
Packerpasty
May 23, 2024 at 09:28 am
Too much lifting going on, these guys work out since they were in high school and now the NFL want them to be even stronger and bulkier....doesnt always work..
dobber
May 22, 2024 at 08:21 am
SF seems to be where Packer castoff-ILBs go. First Oren Burks, now Campbell walks into a pretty good situation playing next to Fred Warner as Dre Greenlaw recovers from his Achilles. Can he keep that job?
I think the Packers needed some fresh faces and ideas in the S&C department. Soft tissue injuries have been on the rise in the league in recent years and hamstring injuries ran rampant last year. Hopefully this will make a difference.
As I get older, I'm finding that muscular balance in just about everything is pretty important...as an example: I've had minor back problems recently caused by sitting on my wallet! I'm not going to dismiss that possibility that asymmetry was the issue with a young buck like Watson...and I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar story with Stokes. Watson changes the offense when he's active and, with Aaron Jones gone, he's the athletic freak that can scare DCs and open up opportunities for everyone else just by being on the field.
That said, here's an interesting stat: in the games where Watson was active in 2023 (not including playoffs), the Packers were 4-5 and averaged 23 points per game. In the others, the Packers were 5-3 and averaged 25.6 ppg. Do with that what you will.
The answer to "why didn't the Packers add to the OLB/DE/Edge rotation this off-season?"...they knew Enagbare would be available. I think he's better suited to play with his hand on the ground in the even front as a rotational DE than trying to play on the edge in the 3-4. I like the Packers' depth on the outside right now.
I've already said my part on Campbell on this thread, and I'm done. When players leave town in a huff, they're not worthy of our bandwidth anymore...so, "who?"
LambeauPlain
May 22, 2024 at 08:49 am
You may be on to something, Dobber. No doubt your wallet is very thick...but think of the size of Watson's and Stoke's wallets. They are probably sitting on filing cabinets!
Get all the Packers a SlimMint wallet or a "Click it" thin money clip.
dobber
May 22, 2024 at 09:07 am
"No doubt your wallet is very thick"
It's full of expired gift cards and coffee shop rewards cards....
Bitternotsour
May 22, 2024 at 09:10 am
I hope it's a nice fat wallet you're sitting on.
LLCHESTY
May 22, 2024 at 12:01 pm
You must have missed the wallet episode of Seinfeld, you would have known better!
https://youtu.be/9TYuGe7JaX4?si=oKU-lyck5wUdhtbT
LambeauPlain
May 22, 2024 at 09:01 am
I did not hear about Enagbare's updated injury status until after the draft. Don't know how I missed that, but was expecting him to be rehabbing for a good part of the season. Great news he's practicing!
What Enagbare has done with the opportunity given him is admirable. He showed up to last year's camp chiseled and in top shape, ready to play. He had a good season and was a key part of the Edge rotation. And having played DE at South Carolina should bode well for him in Hafley's 4-3/2 Defense.
I really like the young man.
GregC
May 22, 2024 at 10:51 am
You didn't miss anything. The team did not announce Enagbare's injury status until after the draft.
PeteK
May 22, 2024 at 09:31 am
Heavy lifting must follow sweaty warm up and stretching.
Turophile
May 22, 2024 at 09:41 am
Before the draft I did mention on this site in the comments section that Marshawn Lloyd was the most 'Packery Packer', of all the RBs in the draft.
I liked Corum and Brooks as well, maybe more, but I could see Lloyd was a good fit for what the Packers want. Obviously Gute thought the same......
LambeauPlain
May 22, 2024 at 10:32 am
When Lloyd was drafted I was "meh"...ok, checks a box of need.
But the more I read about the young man's skills and production, the more excited I became. His upside is huge as a Packer especially in the pass game while playing within to the Illusion of Complexity play designs.
I think he will thrive as a Packer. "I got a feeling...I feel it deep inside, oh yeah" to quote the Fab Four.
I predict he will be one of the draft class's top producers this season.
mnbadger
May 22, 2024 at 12:19 pm
I agree with your prediction.
A big thank you to Al for sharing a link to the M Loyd biography. sounds like a highly motivated and talented young many.
I'm glad he's a GBPkr!
GPG!
greengold
May 25, 2024 at 11:09 am
YEah, hot damn, Turo! He's rock solid. Can't wait to see him play in the Green & Gold.
jont
May 22, 2024 at 10:20 am
"on the Christian Watson front. After working with the experts down in UW-Madison over the offseason, they think they found the root of his hamstring issues. It seems at some point, the strength in his two legs became asymmetrical, as in, not the same."
I am not a doctor, just an enthusiastic if unskilled athlete who's had his share of injuries and then reads about them, so I am not sure, but I believe the 'symmetry issue' regarding hamstrings refers to a ratio of hamstring and quad muscles in one leg, not a balance of the muscular development of the two legs. That is, in my layman terms, the quad pulls so hard it over stresses the hamstring muscle causing the tendon to over stretch or tear.
Johnblood27
May 23, 2024 at 08:19 am
I have seen many crabs with this exact same issue...
jont
May 25, 2024 at 08:12 am
Following up on this in case anybody reads old comments, Watson does have uneven muscle development in his legs-- one is stronger than the other. This contributes to his recurring hamstring problem. There was a report this AM.
Other reports describe multiple causes contributing.
In any case, speculation aside, we can observe that a player with a hamstring injury once gets more of them.
RCPackerFan
May 22, 2024 at 10:55 am
Marshawn Lloyd -
I really don't feel like Lloyd gets talked about enough. I get that we have a lot of other things to talk about and specifically with the offense, but I don't think a lot of people really know how big of an impact Lloyd could make for this offense.
First Jacobs is the starter and most likely workhorse. But what Lloyd brings to the offense is the ability to hit the home run every time he touches the ball. He has the speed, he has the power, he has the ability to make people miss.
A lot of the attention will be on Love, the WR's and TE's. But Lloyd will compliment them very well. His home run threat ouf of the backfield will really open the offense up. I believe Lloyd is the final piece into makin this offense complete.
Alberta_Packer
May 22, 2024 at 12:29 pm
I really appreciate De'Vondre Campbell - for taking the time (once again) - to remind us why the Packers cut him.
greengold
May 25, 2024 at 11:07 am
All
Pro
Level
Comment
.
LOL
Swisch
May 22, 2024 at 03:40 pm
The main issue these days for me is the contract situation of Jordan Love.
As, I think, one of Love's biggest supporters here at CHTV over the years, I'm still good with moving on from him if he wants to break the bank at something near $60 million per year.
I'm ready to go with Sean Clifford and Michael Pratt.
***
The contracts for quarterbacks, as I understand it, are becoming too lopsidedly humongous and hurting their teams as far as obtaining and retaining strong rosters all the way through.
I don't want that to happen for the Packers.
I truly hope Love will show some leadership and accept something in the range of $50 million per year -- which could include making sure that such an average salary includes this season of 2024, when Love is due about $11 million, as I understand it.
If Goff is making about $52 million per year on his new contract, maybe give Love $53 million.
Otherwise, sad to say, let's start over at QB.
***
Love would really energize all of his teammates to rally around him if he takes a little less so that they can get proportionately a lot more.
He would also help the Packers to have the salary cap room to consistently contend for a Super Bowl for years to come.
He would set himself apart as a true leader and a class act.
barutanseijin
May 23, 2024 at 12:08 am
As if any fan here would do take less so their coworkers could take more. What a weird and hypocritical fantasy.
Johnblood27
May 23, 2024 at 08:21 am
We all do not work under a 'hard' salary cap with all of our co-workers salaries public knowledge.
greengold
May 23, 2024 at 10:03 am
Hey Swisch!
I appreciate where you're coming from, but, Love's salary is going to be what he deserves in this market, and a year or two from now it will likely look pretty damned good. There's no way I'd move on from him with all the team buy-in he's helped to develop. Players are actually excited to come here and play for the Packers, namely, because Love is the shizzle. Everybody around the NFL sees it. He had better 1st-Year Starter numbers than either of Favre or Rodgers.
The prices never go down. I'm guessing he's the one walking into Day 1 of TC with the new deal.
Swisch
May 23, 2024 at 01:35 pm
Your reply is much appreciated, greengold, for both its intelligence and kindness.
I may be way wrong about all of this -- but how this contract negotiation is handled by Love seems a good test of whether or not he is the guy at QB in whom to make such a huge investment.
If he's the kind of guy who has to get top dollar to satisfy his ego -- even after proving himself for only half a season and faltering badly in crunch time during the playoff loss against the 49ers -- then I'd rather go with our younger guys in Clifford and Pratt, or someone else we find sooner or later.
What would really help Love to stand out as our guy for the future is for him to not go along with the standard outlook about getting the most he can get, and thereby taking less so that his teammates can get more.
Just because other teams seem to be ruining the rest of their rosters to pay out upwards of $60 million per year for their QB doesn't mean the Packers have to follow suit.
As an example, the Bills have Josh Allen -- and then who else to put them over the top?
If the Packers want to be among the unique teams to win a Super Bowl, then they have to be strong enough to not necessarily follow the crowd of what other NFL teams are doing.
***
Also, Love has to show that he's not going to turn into another Favre or Rodgers in the midst of their careers. At least those two had won a Super Bowl before they became arrogant and counterproductive to championships.
I'm a huge fan of Jordan Love, and have stuck with him all along, but want him to show some character and leadership that rises above the typical.
At $50 million per year, he'll have more money than he knows what to do with. The question is whether or not he's for the team, and passionately wants championship rings for all.
***
To help Love to stay, we can make sure his salary of apparently about $13.5 million for this upcoming season averages out to $50 million in the context of a new contract over five or more seasons.
In other words, Love gets a raise of about $36 million for this season, then makes $50 million for the following five seasons or so.
That could be the key to making everyone happy.
***
In the case of the 49ers, Lance didn't work out, but they moved on adroitly to Purdy.
My hunch is that at least one of Clifford or Pratt can be our version of Purdy. They both seem much better than when they were drafted.
At the worst, we go after a QB for 2025 whom we can afford.
By trading Love, we could get a top draft pick for a potential superstar at QB on a rookie contract.
To get the right leader at QB, we need the right leaders in the front office.
We're going after championships, after all, and those don't come to the ordinary, go-along-with-the-crowd teams.
greengold
May 25, 2024 at 11:03 am
Hey Swisch!
I just happen to think the decision on how much he's offered on his contract is 1. not his decision, 2. it will be market value, and 3. if it were only Jordan Love involved in making the decision, or negotiating, I would guess he'd take less to help the team stay more competitive overall.
We already know he is a man of high character. We also know he's shown himself to have remarkable talents as a QB1 in his first year as a starter, putting up better numbers than his two predecessors who have 2 Super Bowl rings and what, 7 or 8 MVPs between them?
While either of us, and many others, don't like the disproportionate cap $ QBs command today, no one is changing that. Can't throw the baby out with the bath water... Love is white hot, ready to make a name for himself. You pay fair market value and move along, hoping to achieve your goal.
We found the right leader, did we not? We can't help how much money they command, and this isn't our first rodeo. Gutekunst knows what he's doing. They can manage a QB1's 2nd contract and make it work.
greengold
May 23, 2024 at 09:57 am
BRAVO, Al! I love the content you shared here. I needed a break, and got lost checking every one of those interviews after Watson's. Hot damn! We got some impressive energy in that 1265 Locker Room! Watson sounds great, and body mechanics is a legit thing. Injuries cause other muscle groups to compensate, and sometimes overcompensate. I saw a body mechanics guru about a decade after almost losing my foot in a motorcycle accident. It was amazing how he was able to see what needed doing immediately, with a plan that worked. I'm hoping Christian is able to perform better this season, and realize his ultimate success.
Wes' tweet is something I'd been harping on for years in GB, going back to Ha-Ha-Hamstring... Conditioning!
Enagbare coming back healthy is phenomenal, and I'm really looking forward to seeing his progression in his Year 3. He was one of many draft steals we've witnessed in that span, and man, he's got the goods physically to start making a bigger name for himself at DE. 6-4 265 with 35" arms and 10.5" hands. POWER & EXPLOSIVENESS are his calling cards. Last pick of the 5th Round in 2022, he ranked in the Top 100 Prospects of Ourlad's, Athlon's & PFF (one of their highest graded pass rushers the 2 years prior to his being drafted). He had the 9th highest pressure rate in FBS in 2021, and was 2nd in the SEC only to Alabama's Will Anderson Jr. Plus, he knows how to get off of blocks very well, and to set the edge.
Kingsley Enagbare was Dane brugler's #69 ranked prospect overall in the 2022 draft. He was PFF's #52 overall. Gutekunst selected him at Pick #179. Monster value.
I was a tad concerned about pass rush heading into this draft, but, no more.
As for MarShawn Lloyd, Holy crap. I'll leave it at that.
Thanks for yet another great share, Al. ROCK ON!
GeorgeRipley
May 23, 2024 at 11:28 am
In my experience about polluted mindset, I realized how effective it is to use Empowering Growth through Tech Talent. Partnering with experts like https://sloboda-studio.com/ made a huge difference. Their tech talent helped clear my path and scale my projects.
Johnblood27
May 24, 2024 at 07:52 am
Believe it or NOT!
HarryHodag
May 23, 2024 at 05:29 pm
All the good news(mostly) has been tempered a bit by some reports that Jordan Love and the Packers have not come to an agreement on an extension. While an agreement is still likely, imagine the following scenario:
Love and the Packers don't come to an agreement. He plays this season out, knowing full well some team would make him among the top 5 paid QB's. A former GM(Mike Tannenbaum) on NFL Live today said Love should reject any offer less than $60 mill per season on average. Yup, more than Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes. While the chances of a problem in the extension are slim, Love could leave after next season. The chance of that is not zero. Then what? Sean Clifford? Pratt?
Love has the Packers in a shaky situation. That have to pay him but can they afford it? Who goes after that contract is signed? Kenny Clark?
Another troubling development was when I saw Love with Colin Kaepernick. Folks are free to associate with anyone they like, but I can think of a few dozen other players or former players Love could have visited with other than CK.
Swisch
May 23, 2024 at 07:32 pm
After Trey Lance as a top draft pick didn't work out for the 49ers, they adroitly adjusted to the last player taken in his draft class, Brock Purdy.
I think that Clifford and/or Pratt may be really good for the Packers.
If not, trade Love for a top draft pick in 2025 to obtain a future superstar at QB on a rookie contract.
***
As I think the record here at CHTV shows, I've been a big supporter of Jordan Love since he was drafted. I have been sticking with him all the way through.
I'm still really excited about him, but not if he's going to drive the rest of the roster down by asking for too much.
If he's one of those egotists who needs to be highest paid -- or if he wants to emulate Colin Kaepernick -- then bye-bye Mr. Love, all the best to you far, far away.
If he's a true leader of character who wants his teammates to also get paid, and if he wants there to be enough salary cap left over for the entire roster to be strong, then I continue to be all in with Love.
To be a championship team, we need not only talent but character -- and especially at quarterback.
Do our players want the bling, or do they want the ring?
Johnblood27
May 24, 2024 at 07:58 am
ummm...
The ring IS bling...
The title is the thing!
The mantle of Champion wears comfortably on those with great character.
Please Mr Love, some Favre, some Rodgers, but a LOT of Starr!
Swisch
May 24, 2024 at 11:03 am
Generally speaking, bling is crass, while championship rings are class.
Not all jewelry is equal.
Some is preposterously gaudy; some is preciously meaningful.
dobber
May 24, 2024 at 09:26 am
"they adroitly adjusted to the last player taken in his draft class, Brock Purdy.
I think that Clifford and/or Pratt may be really good for the Packers."
They got extremely lucky that 32 teams missed on their scouting and evaluation of Purdy--and I say 32 because even SF waited to the very end of the draft to take him.
Here's a list of QB draft picks by year...while need at the most valued position on the field inflates the draft status and position of QBs, it also means that the Kyle Purdys are significant outliers:
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb
The number of non-first-round QBs who develop into just competent starters is low enough that thinking that Clifford or Pratt can do what Brock Purdy has managed to pull off--working with an outstanding coaching staff and a great supporting cast--just by analogy of draft status is what kills coaching staffs and results in housecleaning of upper management.
Swisch
May 24, 2024 at 10:53 am
It seems Clifford and Pratt may be a lot better than what their place in draft selection indicates.
Pratt especially may have tons of talent that went largely unnoticed at a smaller college.
If our young QBs don't work out, trade Love for a top-5 pick with which to take a promising QB on a rookie contract. If one of them does work out, use that top-5 pick for a potential superstar at another position, or trade down for two first-round picks.
Then again, a lot of first-round QBs turn out to be a lot worse than their place in draft selection.
Another perspective is that there's no guarantee Jordan Love will work out to be the guy at QB. He has only a half-season of top performance on his resume, with one great playoff game against the Cowboys but one iffy game against the 49ers in which he faltered with two terrible interceptions late.
***
There's nothing wrong with Love meeting with Kaepernick, but then again it's a concern. We don't want a quarterback who is obnoxiously divisive, even to the extreme of not respecting the American flag under which he is making some $50 million per year.
No one is saying America is perfect and not in need of some significant reform; but if we can't even unite as a nation to honor the flag and all of the good it represents, well we really don't even have a nation.
We're just a bunch of tribes of various ethnicities and special interests looking out only for ourselves. We're doomed to ruin.
Most Americans of all colors have had a grueling heritage working in factories and mines and other dangerous and dirty jobs for paltry pay. Many have fought valiantly in deadly wars to defend the flag and the real virtues it does indeed represent.
What we need is to unite across all colors against the few elitists who own almost everything in America, and who try to maintain their privilege by dividing and distracting us against each other.
We need to rally against the centralists and globalists to make America local again.
We need good jobs to support strong families; and strong families to provide responsible workers for good jobs.
***
I'm still big on Jordan Love, and truly hope he stays a Packer -- but not at any cost.
My main point is that if he's becoming difficult in negotiations at this early stage of his career, he would not be someone the Packers want to invest huge money in for several years.
If he's not being difficult in negotiations, then let's try to sign him with enthusiasm.
However, not at the cost of degrading the rest of our roster.
While the Browns and Lions and Bengals went nuts in the contracts for their QBs, it doesn't mean that it's right for the Packers.
Champions have to have the independence to go their own way at times.
dobber
May 24, 2024 at 09:05 am
"A former GM(Mike Tannenbaum) on NFL Live today said Love should reject any offer less than $60 mill per season on average. "
AAV is something to hang their hats on and brag about in the media, but it's annual cap hits that count. Some parts can be massaged to manage cap hit on a year to year basis. It's the guaranteed money that makes contracts unmanageable. I would think at this stage--if the contract isn't quite finalized--that's what they're working out. Love isn't in the same position as a Rodgers or Mahomes--or even Jared Goff--to argue for big guarantees. They'll get this worked out in short order, it's just how they distribute the money over guarantees paid up front (and amortized over future caps) and annual cash/bonus values.
"Love could leave after next season."
That seems pretty unlikely with the power of the Franchise tag in the corner of the Packers.
"Another troubling development was when I saw Love with Colin Kaepernick."
Meh. People have turned Kaepernick into some kind of bogeyman.
Bitternotsour
May 24, 2024 at 10:57 am
"Another troubling development..."
when people write shit like that it's as though their sheets and pillowcases are showing.
Johnblood27
May 24, 2024 at 02:36 pm
disrespect for the country and the institutions that make it a governing structure doesn't have anything to do with race.
Don't blend 2 issues to allow for wrong minded behaviors regarding one to be rationalized and condoned.
If I could make one wish for the American public it would be that individuals would think for themselves from an educated and engaged perspective and not listen to talking heads, spin doctors and so-called 'leaders' to gain their understanding of issues.
Leatherhead
May 24, 2024 at 04:12 pm
But we could still look things up on Google, right?
Johnblood27
May 24, 2024 at 05:21 pm
You got it buddy!
Everyone can make up their own minds about just how misinformed they choose to be!
Leatherhead
May 24, 2024 at 05:47 pm
That sounds very dangerous. Surely it's better to have smart people do the thinking instead of the not-smart people..
Bitternotsour
May 24, 2024 at 11:22 pm
yeah. i'm so much more inclined to follow a concussion laden quarterback who did his own research than in immunologist or a virologist with multiple research degrees.
but like, everything is available on the internet
Bitternotsour
May 24, 2024 at 11:29 pm
Um, I know what you mean. The disrespect for the country, the institutions and governing structure on Jan. 6th, right? I think we can all agree that the seditionists and insurectionists should be tried for treason and hung in public.
oh wait, you're talking about a guy who sat quietly during the anthem because he didn't want his brothers and sisters murdered. then he got black-balled by the league. but ok, sure.