Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - No news is... what, exactly?

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

 

 

Trapped - Yes Packers fans, we are once again trapped in the offseason "will he, won't he" Rodgers drama. And boy does he love it, embrace it, even bathe in it. This off-the-field madness is the main reason I've said I would be fine if it all comes to an end and the team moves on without him. Not because I think the Packers will be just as good without him. No, a Rodgers-less team would have its struggles and be lacking their virtually guaranteed path to the playoffs. But I'm willing (perhaps foolishly) to let that happen - to find out if Love is the answer and what LaFleur's coaching and game plans look like without Rodgers making the decisions on the field. I'm much more interested in that than Rodgers' love life, his Instagram postings, his latest diet/cleanse regimen, what books he's read, etc. So bring it on, NFL Gods - I'll curse mysef out later if it turns out to be a disaster.

No (Campbell) Soup for You - I officially hate eye emojis now, don't you?  ZaDarius, De'Vondre, all these eye emojis and nothing but disappointment follows. Yes we know Z is gone, but damn, we were all hoping Campbell's Instagram pic of Lambeau Field (likely taken from Kohler Lodge) with those damn eye emojis meant he was in town to sign a new contract just before the cap hit deadline. Instead, the deadline came and went with no news to report. Sure the Packers can still compete for his services on the free agent market, but it's highly unlikley they will be able to meet his price as a still young (28) player coming off a Pro Bowl Season. In my mind - he's gone. I can only hope the Packers have learned their lesson about the value of a really good inside linebacker and they don't leave the cupboard bare again.

Crossing the Border - The Packers' NFC North opponents have always had a thing for ex-Packers players. Looks like they figured out this offseason they can do the same thing with ex-Packers' coaches. Pettine, Getsy, Smith all emplyed by other NFC North teams. I'll take this all as a sign of respect for the Packers' team building prowess. If you can't beat 'em, get their people!

Is Rodgers the Walrus? - For those of you of a certain age, does the wacky analysis of that picture remind you of the whole "Paul is Dead" thing?

 

Grossi - The funniest three minutes you'll enjoy this week. Funny because it's satire, yet so real.

 

 

__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

NFL Categories: 
15 points

Comments (126)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
MarkinMadison's picture

February 23, 2022 at 06:19 am

I went off facebook last year. I've never twittered, let alone IG'd. And I have no idea what the eye emojis mean. And really, I don't have to do any of these things, because 10 minutes after they happen someone in the media will do a story on Aaron Rodgers' pictures, if I care to read it. So for the price of knowing trivial things 10 minutes later than the hooked in, I get my sanity. Cool.

21 points
21
0
BradHTX's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:37 am

Preach, Mark. When it first came out, I thought FB was wonderful, and it was fun reconnecting with friends. Now I spend almost no time on it at all, aside from a few interest groups, and I’ve never been on Twitter and rarely IG.

As human beings, we’re all self-absorbed enough. No need to broadcast it to the world!

9 points
9
0
SanLobo's picture

February 23, 2022 at 06:41 am

It’s amazing the amount of drama in our lives we create for ourselves by worrying about things that are out of our control. Sometimes you just have to turn your phone off, pour yourself another cup of coffee and think about the good things in life you do have.

21 points
21
0
nygary's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:45 am

Amen San Lobo. You are a very smart man. I need to take your advise more often.

1 points
1
0
SanLobo's picture

February 23, 2022 at 11:22 am

Thanks! Not sure my wife would agree with your assessment, but I really appreciate the thought.

1 points
1
0
mnbadger's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:23 pm

Coffee? Nah, too much stress. A nice Irish whiskey and I'm all in.

3 points
3
0
Tundraboy's picture

February 23, 2022 at 04:36 pm

0r go fishing. Works for me.

0 points
0
0
NickPerry's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:03 am

I heard a interesting perspective on a Packers podcast yesterday morning, might have been on one of the Pack A Day Podcast's or another but it was a great take. His take was on Joe Barry's roots as an ILB Coach.

Barry is one hell of an ILB coach. He started coaching ILB in 2001 on Tony Dungy's staff and has been coaching them in one way or another since then, either as a ILB coach or a DC. In 2017 he was hired by McVay as a Linebackers coach and Asst. Head Coach. While he was in LA he helped make Cory Littleton one of the best ILB in the NFL in 2018 and 2019. He went to the Raiders as a FA, 3 years $36 million, and is basically a JAG now and you never really hear about Littleton now.

Fast forward to 2021 when Campbell was signed for the bargain price he was LATE into the 2021 offseason. Nobody was beating down the door for Campbell and his ENTIRE career up to that point basically told you why. Now I'm not saying I don't want Campbell back, or he won't be as good as he was last year if brought back. But what I am saying is I think a TON of credit should be given to Joe Barry's for Campbells SUDDEN rise in the ILB ranks.

I'd love to see Campbell back but not for $8, $9, or $10 million plus a season, not with the cap the way it is, and not for a guy who's only produced like that one year out of a six year career. If some team throws a ton of money at him, great for Campbell. I'll say thank you for a great season and good luck. Campbell is worth $6 million a year with some incentives thrown in. PROVE it wasn't a fluke.

I tuned in for the Aaron Rodgers Tuesday on Macafee. As soon as I heard there would be no decision and he started in about some damn cleanse, I tuned out. This dude is so in love with the sound of his own voice it's pathetic! I DON'T CARE about any cleanse or that you think YOUR season ended AFTER the SB! I CARE out the GREEN BAY PACKERS, the WHOLE organization, the one you're holding hostage again.

If you come back great, if you want to be traded (YES PLEASE) even better. But the good people of Wisconsin who cheer for you and Packers fans from around the world deserve BETTER. The Organization deserves better. Figure it out and please do it quick. Perhaps a brain cleanse to help you decide faster should be next.

16 points
20
4
jurp's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:31 am

At this point, Rodgers is nothing but an attention-whore, unfortunately. I expect any decision to be announced on March 15th, with him playing the media until then. It does seem like he'll go where Adams goes, so I sure in hell hope the Packers don't sign Adams.

5 points
11
6
HawkPacker's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:43 am

Not sure if this could happen, but I hope he can't/won't pull a Rod Carew meaning if the packer's try to trade him to a good team for draft capital/players he will nix the trade because GB is getting too much and the new team won't then be good enough to compete for a championship, in his eyes, and then threatens to retire.

I can see him do this.

-2 points
2
4
dobber's picture

February 23, 2022 at 10:47 am

I don't think this will be a problem. Any acquiring team is going to want to deal primarily in picks, and will need to have enough cap to not only support a new deal for 12, but also to sign enough talent (and extend enough of their own talent) to support a legit window. I don't see more than one or maybe two players in return, and--frankly--the Packers can't take on much in terms of new players and contracts. Basically, if a team bids on ARod, what's on paper at the time of a deal will be there when 12 arrives. Then it's up to ARod to not screw up their cap enough with his new deal that they can't support him.

If he agrees to go where the Packers can deal him, he'll be a good soldier.

3 points
3
0
HawkPacker's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:37 am

Nice post nick.

I agree on what you are saying on Campbell and Barry and I have stated this in the past. Campbell admitted it as well previously when asked why he is playing so well this year. He said that when on the field, he is going where he was told to go by the coaches. I would bet that if he takes a large contract elsewhere, he will not play as well as last year. Can't blame him for wanting the money though.

If he signs with green bay, he will be a stud like last year. Ig GB finds another low cost veteran FA, I can see Barry coach him up better than he has been in past years. IMHO of course.

4 points
4
0
Coldworld's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:41 am

Excellent post, but if the organization deserves better, it’s in the nebulous sense of the fans, not the highly paid individuals who have positioned themselves and everyone to dangle in the wind waiting for Rodgers.

Leaving this decision to Rodgers is a result of having no ideas other than him. Bring back an aging QB on a massive contract and denude the rest of the roster at huge future cost despite thrive imploding in the playoffs with more. If that’s the best plan that they can concoct, they need to be shown the door. Perhaps they are just hoping he will do it for them, but that’s just the easy option. Look like you know what you are doing and display a confidence in direction and vision and the team is in a better place.

1 points
4
3
dobber's picture

February 23, 2022 at 08:48 am

I think this is a delicate game, and the longer it persists, the more likely it is that ARod is gone. If ARod would be as committed to coming back to GB as the Packers have been saying they are to having him back, saying so is a low-risk, get it out of the way proposition. As it stands, both sides are dancing around the process in a "what's paints us in the best light and limits our options least" kind of two-step.

There are several troll-sites out there now reporting that #12 has told some close to him that he will retire. I see that as the least likely outcome, but the more you see it the more it weighs on you--I would rate that as the worst possible outcome for the Packers.

5 points
6
1
Coldworld's picture

February 23, 2022 at 09:00 am

It’s not good, but it’s probably better than mortgaging the future for him and a weak roster. The only good outcome is a trade because we’d get something for him and force us to show the leadership can move on without the crutch or hide behind false hopes that there can be an encore to the last dance with a lesser roster.

4 points
6
2
BirdDogUni's picture

February 23, 2022 at 09:55 pm

You keep saying a "lesser roster." That may be, but it also may not be the case Cw. I know you believe it, because you've said it about 50 times, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

Our young OL ought to be more experienced. Our young CBs should develop even more. Hell, even AJ Dillon ought to be improved in his 3rd year. Gary could really beast out this coming season, and we all know our STs should be improved greatly, if they only because they pay more attention to them than years past.

We have no idea right now if the roster will be better or worse than last year. I know you assume it will be worse, but with a decent draft and if our Pro Personnel Department do their job as well as they did last year, we could actually be much improved.

Lets just pump the brakes on the "worse" roster until we know that to be the case, which won't be until footballs start flying for real, and that is seven months away.

I totally get your reasoning, but I am still hopeful the 53 guys on our roster will be better than last year, if only because King won't be on it! XD

2 points
3
1
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

February 24, 2022 at 03:19 am

Yes, I agree the window could be extended into 2022. It is tight in terms of money. GB will be without Jenkins, Tonyan for a significant part of 2022. One thing is that Gute got quite a lot of surplus value out of Campbell, Douglas and Kelly. Of course, Gute might manage to do so again. He swung and missed on Kirksey, but his pro player personnel acquisitions have been pretty good.

Newman and Myers could make jumps. I liked what I saw from Newman. Myers got the finger injury early and then the knee injury. I am not sure we saw him much at full strength, and he got his feet wet in the NFL. I am not sure why I like Hill as much as I do, but even Patrick Taylor looked like a solid backup. Dillon could become the receiving force that Jones was, and even that formulation is meant just that they used Jones more for receiving, not because I think Dillon was unable to provide that in 2021.

Stokes could make a jump. I suppose all of them could make 2nd year jumps, I just noted the guys I happen to like.

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2022 at 11:21 am

Sadly, BDU, it is true, I’m not a believer in miracles or the legend of the Immaculate Draft. Just going on contractual mathematics, general probabilities and the ratio of empty roster spots to the total and also available cap.

I will still follow the Draft/UDFA and FA, but that isn’t, for me at least, a mask for the permutations even a massive kick forward can fund and find. I admit that, even were I wrong in this, and we came out near equal, I don’t see the chances of a different result from the team or HC as large.

I will still hope, of course. It would be better to be wrong than right on this one, not least because being right would be so damning of the leadership and so harmful to the future.

2 points
3
1
BirdDogUni's picture

February 24, 2022 at 12:10 pm

I totally get that. I still hold out hope that the FO is just saying the right things, all while knowing they're going to trade AR, tag-n-trade DA, and move forward with a ton of draft capital and much needed Cap space.

But, it really is feeling like they want to try one more year. Which sucks for our long-term prospects, and I agree our FO seems to be leading scared.

I don't think AR will ask for a trade, but if he were to ask, I do think that would be the best thing that could happen. AR/GB go their separate ways amicably, we get draft picks, players, and cap space.

Right now we have 9 draft picks projected. Which should be more than enough to infuse this team with young talent. Hoping they focus a bit more on STs personnel. In the end, we'll have a roster of 53, and I see no reason we can't have a better 53 man roster than we did last year, if AR and DA are retained.

Granted, I'd like to retain Campbell and Douglas as well, but we won't know how that will turn out for awhile, but I can still see a path to a better 53 than last year.

If AR does ask for a trade, we could have a much better 53 man roster next year, the exception being the QB position. ; )

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2022 at 03:00 pm

9 draft picks equals about 3 contributors this year in a good year, plus maybe a role/STer or 2 in a great one. We have 37 odd players currently contracted, many of whom are prospects. That means about 10 SFAs for a start.

We are in a great position. To build for 3 years out … after Rodgers goes … if we have to rely on that route. Just another contradiction if they do hold on to Rodgers. It will be interesting, but I’m not sure fruitful for Rodgers.

1 points
1
0
BruceC1960's picture

February 23, 2022 at 09:13 am

I could see him retire for a year, repair his broken romance, then come back to the team of his choice. He has 3-4 good years left in him, right?

-4 points
2
6
Coldworld's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:27 pm

He’d still be Packers property as it tolls. He would then have to persuade them to release him. Favre tried that by turning up to training camp. The Packers then sent him to the Jets for not much. A pick conditional on him playing works. He can no show but then simply back to tolling.

4 points
4
0
Return_To_Sanity's picture

February 23, 2022 at 05:59 pm

I used to be huge fans of Gutekunst and Lafleur but now im beginning to think a complete cleansing of the upper echelon of this organization needs to occur. Its like they all hopped aboard the crazy train to hell. Murphy too, but hes been suspect for years.

3 points
4
1
dobber's picture

February 23, 2022 at 08:44 am

I think you're on the right track on the Campbell/Barry dynamic. I think usage, insight, and coaching all played a pretty significant role. I think that Campbell happened to be more toolsy than most ILB candidates the Packers have had in recent years, too. In the end, I'm fairly confident last season will do nothing more than encourage the Packers to continue to dumpster-dive at ILB, though.

5 points
5
0
Coldworld's picture

February 23, 2022 at 09:52 am

No cap gives a big push in that direction as well. I don’t blame Campbell for seeking to get paid now he can, but it’s the sad reality we are in after last year: we aren’t in the running at this time.

1 points
4
3
Minniman's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:19 pm

It's a brutal position too Dobber - like RB, it's a short life span position with a high chance of getting repeatedly injured and becoming ineffective.

Campbell said himself that the year before coming to the Packers he was playing hurt, and it felt good to actually play healthy again.

Look at a team that covets the ILB position - Dallas. They are onto their 4th high pick ILB in what, 9 years?? (Sean Lee, Jaylon Smth, Leighton V-Esch and now Micah Parsons).

The price and contract needs to match the risk.

And yes, good coaching maketh the player.

6 points
7
1
dobber's picture

February 23, 2022 at 02:02 pm

Apparently they aren't going to give VanderEsch the 5th year option...

2 points
2
0
Minniman's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:10 pm

Yep, Brady had enough time to work it out and he's made his decision.

........ but that's the point - Rodgers has oft been criticized in his career for holding onto the ball too long, hasn't he Nick!

1 points
1
0
Spock's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:09 am

Al, I always enjoy this post. I didn't follow (as much as I could with all the media in-your-face coverage) all the Rodgers drama LAST off season and I am trying to do the same THIS one. Might not have much else to do, though, as I'm heading to rotator cuff surgery in about 30 minutes! Yeah, after messing up my R shoulder in August (non-operable) I had a nasty fall on some loose asphalt 3 weeks ago, "Cheese Grated" (hey, I carry the "G") the palm on my right hand, tore my left biceps tendon (again) and tore my rotator cuff on my LEFT shoulder. Probably my last comment for awhile as I'll be in a sling for 3 weeks and am a (slow) two hand typist. Agree (as usual) with all your "confessions".

11 points
11
0
Guam's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:30 am

Best wishes for a rapid recovery Spock!

6 points
6
0
HawkPacker's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:54 am

good luck spock. I had rotator surgery about 7 years ago and found it not as bad as every one said. maybe i was just lucky. suggestion for you: do all the rehab suggested--nothing more or less and you will do fine.

i am 3 weeks out from left wrist surgery and am typing one handed--it sucks.

7 points
7
0
NickPerry's picture

February 24, 2022 at 05:28 am

BUT...Your here posting on CHTV... I love Packers fans... Neither rain, snow, sleet, OR surgery will keep a Packers fan from CHTV! I wish you continued success with your recovery Hawk!

1 points
1
0
HawkPacker's picture

February 24, 2022 at 08:14 am

you're the best nickperry. i use the hunt and peck version of typing but hopfully in a few months i will get back to normal.

1 points
1
0
JerseyAl's picture

February 23, 2022 at 08:02 am

Good luck with the surgery and rehab!

4 points
4
0
dobber's picture

February 23, 2022 at 09:00 am

Be well, friend, and--of course--live long and prosper!

8 points
8
0
Since'61's picture

February 23, 2022 at 03:49 pm

Spock I hope that everything works out well for you. Don't rush back to anything take all the time you need to heal up completely. All the best. Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
Spock's picture

February 23, 2022 at 06:54 pm

surgery went well. thanks for kind thoughts.
spock

6 points
6
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 23, 2022 at 10:05 pm

That's great! Might have to use "Voice to Text" to comment for awhile!

; )

Heal up and come back strong!

2 points
2
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

February 24, 2022 at 03:22 am

You will be missed, Spock.

1 points
1
0
NickPerry's picture

February 24, 2022 at 05:22 am

Hey Spock.. I'm posting this after your surgery but I hope the surgery went well and you're on your way to a speedy recovery!

1 points
1
0
croatpackfan's picture

February 23, 2022 at 08:04 am

Thank for you sharing your thoughts with us.

"Trapped" - Aaron Rodgers may be the most talented (physical ability wise) QB ever played football, but to be real leader you can not pick up 10-15 persons from the team and post how grateful you are to them for their support, understanding ....... and love. Team is the team - 63 players are all together involved in success or in failure. For Packers' Diva it looks like only few players are contributing to his success (sic!), of course marginal but still. He is the franchise by his own standards. What about Kenny Clark, Rashan Gary, Jaire Alexander, Smiths, DeVondre Campbell, Eric Stokes, Barnes, Lowry, Slaton, Sullivan, Amos, Savage and so on and so on. In his mind they can only ruin his effort, they are not helping him.

I said last spring, when the hell open its gate that they should trade him immediately. Why? To preserve the dignity of the franchise and dignity of the Brian Gutekunst. Even if that means that Packers would have #1 pick of the draft. Accepting Aaron Rodgers back, more humiliating under his conditions, they lost my respect. Football is entertainment for us, funs. Bun when you like some organization involved in the sport you love to watch, you become true fan and you start to care about that organization. As I am irrelevant as person and fan to them, the fandom is not. It brings revenue to have as wide as you can fan nation. Not because they care about single fan, but because they care about revenue. That is business. I'm well aware of that. But, when somebody put himself and his needs, wishes, wealth etc., over the organization it is the time to part away with him.

I understand this another year all-in attitude. I was OK with that, but if that is the last dance, you can not have another last dance and another and another. You comes out silly. Ridiculous. You are showing that you put your personal success over organization that made you rich, both in wealth, experience and memories. You act as arrogant ass person (I'm looking at you Mike Murphy!), and you will do everything to repeat the same LAST (last?) try again and again and again. You also comply with requests from another person with same character (I'm looking at you Aaron Rodgers) using him to publicly do what you have not courage to do by yourself. To justify your wrong decision.

It is normal that we are all weary of those kind of games. Because we want the best for the organization (does not matter what differences are in how we see what would be the best for organization). This almost 1 year old saga should be concluded, and should be concluded immediately. If Aaron Rodgers and Mike Murphy have any respect for the Packers Nation.

Fear is immobilizing and most often leads to wrong decisions. And, as I see no main actor has the courage to end this, Packers humiliation story. As Packers depends only and forever on one person!

EDIT: I bow to Ted Thompson, whom many GMs should look at!

6 points
7
1
Minniman's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:35 pm

Croat, Rodgers is the prestige QB 'catnip' that the behind the scenes guys (Murphy et al) and most of us fans (speaking for myself) are still horribly addicted to.

He gives them a "punchers chance" every season, sells a LOT of merch and easily accounts for the divisional rivals (which placates the majority of the fan base)......... from a bean-counters perspective he ticks all the boxes for the organization.

On the field though - he's showing his age.

I also personally don't buy the MVP malarky - "MVP" QB's win those playoff 4th quarter encounters.

I agree - It is time to move on from him now though - I don't see him having the length of career that Brady had - I don't see him playing 6 more seasons..... 3. tops. time to recover losses and rebuild.

4 points
6
2
RedRight49's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:19 am

Your brain was very well drained this week Al, and in the vernacular of the day, that must feel like a mental cleanse.

Glad you mentioned the hiring of quality Packer coaches by 2 of our rivals in the NFC North as those teams essentially seek new coaching paths to success and our guys were very successful coaches.

I like our new coaching hires though it should take at least a season to see if all of the " coaches in - coaches out " changes will help or hinder the Pack.

That's always hard to measure as so many new players join the team and others leave and unfortunately Campbell might be among the departures.

He sure gave the Pack a great season of football and you are so correct, Campbell showed the advantages of having a quality inside linebacker on the field.

Maybe, when his fair market value is tested, the Pack can still re-up him, if not, he leaves a void and hopefully Barry has one or two guys in mind for that spot.

5 points
5
0
Coldworld's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:31 pm

He’s right to test FA in his position. As you say, who knows, events may give us a little more flexibility afterwards too. There’s a risk we can’t compete, but there’s always the possibility others aren’t willing to give him all he hopes for in terms of role and money. That was always probably the best chance given the amount of cap we have to shed before that.

1 points
1
0
Roadrunner23's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:23 am

I’m so done!

Wake me when the dust settles and we find out who is left!

Adams, Campbell, Crosby, Douglass, Turner, Tonyan, Rodgers.

Don’t care until the draft 😂

6 points
6
0
Roadrunner23's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:24 am

Grossi summed it up perfectly 😂 too funny!

4 points
4
0
BradHTX's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:40 am

“Guuuuuuuuys?” Hilarious.

My first exposure to Grossi, pretty good stuff.

4 points
4
0
jcod3's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:42 am

I’m with you Al, can we just move on? This guy’s a head case 😜

7 points
8
1
Guam's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:46 am

(1) Packer management proclaim they want Rodgers back; (2) Rodgers intimates that he might come back but only if Adams also comes back; (3) the Packers reportedly aren't talking with Adams.

Rodgers has been consistent this offseason - he doesn't want to be part of a rebuild and that apparently includes not parting ways with Adams. The FO and Adams reportedly are not even talking much less negotiating which is consistent with many people's opinions that the Packers simply can't afford Adams given their salary cap issues.

Does this sound like a PR job by both sides to grease the way for a "its no one's fault" departure of Rodgers from Green Bay?

5 points
7
2
croatpackfan's picture

February 23, 2022 at 08:06 am

Do you know what means to be consistent?

Like when you say that You will never play for Packers any more, than when you stand behind your words. That is how you are consistent person.

-3 points
0
3
Guam's picture

February 23, 2022 at 01:20 pm

Croat: I said "Rodgers has been consistent THIS OFFSEASON". I know Rodgers has not been consistent over the years, but THIS OFFSEASON his messaging has been pretty consistent and on point - he doesn't want to be part of a rebuild.

2 points
2
0
croatpackfan's picture

February 23, 2022 at 02:42 pm

My bad. It happens...

1 points
1
0
dobber's picture

February 23, 2022 at 08:51 am

"Does this sound like a PR job by both sides to grease the way for a "its no one's fault" departure of Rodgers from Green Bay?"

100% yes...and also keeps things clear for them to shake hands and move on together.

8 points
8
0
Coldworld's picture

February 23, 2022 at 09:10 am

I hope you are right, though with Adams, the lack of discussion doesn’t surprise me. They know what he wants is greater than the tag. He knows that’s a possibility.

5 points
5
0
SanLobo's picture

February 23, 2022 at 01:19 pm

Adams wants more than the Packers are willing to pay. There isn’t any incentive for the Packers to reach out to Adams right now if he holds onto his current pay demand. Assuming they still want him, they will franchise tag him. The ball is in Adams court to talk to the Packers, not the other way around.

0 points
1
1
Guam's picture

February 23, 2022 at 01:25 pm

The ball is in Adams court as long as the Packers are okay losing Rodgers. Rodgers has said he wants to play with Adams and if the Packers don't resign Adams, he may not be interested in playing for the Packers. That puts pressure on the Packer FO to negotiate with Adams UNLESS the Packers are willing to part with Rodgers. And that was my primary point - despite public posturing by the Packer FO that they want Rodgers back, they are not doing the one thing required to keep Rodgers, which is resigning Adams.

2 points
2
0
SanLobo's picture

February 23, 2022 at 02:00 pm

I understand what you’re saying but I don’t believe that is what the Packers are signaling. They don’t have to resign him. All they have to is franchise tag him. GB, based on the Kinney Clark’s restructure announced today, is probably willing to pay Adams more than his current contract if Adams is willing to restructure it. But that is on Adams, not the Pack. I don’t think the front office knows if Rodgers is coming back. I do think they know what they plan to do with Adams.

0 points
0
0
Guam's picture

February 23, 2022 at 04:31 pm

You are correct that the Packers could tag and keep Adams for one year. However they would risk having a pretty unhappy player since the tag is a least $5 million under what Adams expects with a new contract. Not to mention the lack of security since it would be a one year contract versus the multi-year contract Adams wants. Adams has said he doesn't want to be tagged and Rodgers has supported that desire. Not sure that tagging Adams wouldn't drive Rodgers away from Green Bay. Would tagging Adams be consistent with the FO's public position that they want Rodgers back?

1 points
1
0
stockholder's picture

February 23, 2022 at 07:59 am

I want Rodgers back. I want the greatest Packer QB of all time staying. If I could give him Stock, I would. Because he’s the only reason this team hasn’t SUCKED after Favre. Who cried after Jennings left. He didn’t run the Offense. And none of our current Free Agents do either. AS long as they don’t have a ring. They're a loser. Take your unrealistic demands with you. I believe you can be replaced. What assurance can any of these guys give us? Debt? NO thanks! The FO has this right. They want Rodgers back.

-10 points
4
14
croatpackfan's picture

February 23, 2022 at 08:08 am

You must fall in very, very deep love with Aaron Rodgers - be aware, it may take over sexual connotations...

-2 points
2
4
Coldworld's picture

February 23, 2022 at 11:19 am

Bart has passed. He is the “greatest Packer QB of all time” as a man and a winner both on and off the field.

11 points
13
2
JerseyAl's picture

February 23, 2022 at 11:38 am

You beat me to it! 100%

3 points
4
1
jurp's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:12 pm

Damn straight, Coldworld. I would hope that any average fan would know this.

2 points
4
2
stockholder's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:31 pm

Starr would have admitted this: The players of today. Are better. Faster , Stronger, more Accurate. We grew up in a different time. We were Lucky to have a hero like Starr.

1 points
5
4
jurp's picture

February 23, 2022 at 04:16 pm

Starr: 5 NFL Championships, 2 Super Bowl Championships. 2 Super Bowl MVP 5-1 record in NFL CGs, 2-0 Super Bowl

Rodgers: 1 NFC Championship, 1 NFL/Super Bowl Championship. 1 Super Bowl MVP, 1 win and I don't even remember how many losses in NFCCGs, 1-0 Super Bowl.

Championships matter in determining greatness. Just compare Starr's last drive in the Ice Bowl to Rodgers' last drive against SF. One is great; the other, not.

7 points
7
0
Leatherhead's picture

February 24, 2022 at 11:41 am

Starr also said this: "The quarterback position, first and foremost, is about leadership".

So yeah, Faster, Stronger, more Accurate. More protected by the rules, too. But Bart could lead men to victory, even when they had to overcome extreme adversity. That's a helluva lot more important than speed or strength.
.
In my life....sports, military, education, business........I have met rare people who can lead, even when things head south into the shit swamp. They overcome and keep going. It's a rare quality.

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2022 at 12:17 pm

“More protected by the rules” is more significant than many recall when comparing numbers.

2 points
2
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 24, 2022 at 01:17 pm

Some of the hits Bart Starr took would've killed lesser men. He was as tough as they come. It's amazing he finished as many seasons upright as he did.

Bart was a leader of men. AR runs an offense. Big difference.

2 points
2
0
Minniman's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:43 pm

Last year I was with you stockholder. Now, I think that Rodgers has the playoff yips and also isn't as mentally settled as Brady to play another 6 years (and do what is needed to be done to stop the team decay around him).

3 points
6
3
Roadrunner23's picture

February 23, 2022 at 08:18 am

Guuuuy’s…..😂

5 points
5
0
Archie's picture

February 23, 2022 at 08:28 am

I hope the self-absorbed diva makes it easy and chooses not to come back to GB. Nd my gut tells me it is likely to be so. Give me the cap relief and the extra draft picks and I will take my chances with Love, MLF and Gutey. No more drama and no more freezing up when it counts most. I'm so tired of watching him ignore open Wrs in order to throw to Adams in triple coverage. Trade 'em both. Start fresh. See where we are in 3 years. Or we can keep playing the same ol tune, over and over and over. If AR wins a SB elsewhere, good for him, if not, oh well.
And, just maybe, not living in AR's shadow will do tons for Love's development i.e., accuracy.

2 points
6
4
dobber's picture

February 23, 2022 at 08:56 am

The next chip (after letting the void years on King, Campbell, et al., kick in)--and a wholly expected one--has fallen by reworking Kenny Clark's deal...

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2022/02/packers-rework-kenny-clarks-deal

This generates about $11M in cap relief which puts the Packers' overage for 2022 (including the void year additions) at somewhere around $42M. There's a reference in the article to the Packers being likely to tag Adams, which means they're staring at what amounts to a $62M overage.

6 points
6
0
Coldworld's picture

February 23, 2022 at 09:17 am

Clark is young enough at 27 that, health permitting, those void years can perhaps be negated by a future extension. This makes sense given what we have to do just to get by.

It’s pretty clear that the link to Adams being tagged is just speculation on the part of the writer. I don’t see it as predictive of that one way or the other.

4 points
4
0
stockholder's picture

February 23, 2022 at 11:27 am

I see some going to MVS.

-1 points
0
1
coolhand's picture

February 23, 2022 at 03:36 pm

The Packers need to tag and trade Adams and get what they can, and let DA work out a longer term deal with his new team.

-2 points
0
2
Lphill's picture

February 23, 2022 at 08:59 am

I’m gonna wait for the view to tell me what Rodgers is doing , a real trustworthy source.

-3 points
5
8
13TimeChamps's picture

February 23, 2022 at 09:07 am

Not to make light of NFL head trauma, but I'm starting to wonder if those concussions Rodgers took early in his career aren't catching up to him.

In one year, he's gone from a normal looking guy to sporting a greasy man-bun, then some weird hippie long hair look. A formerly very private guy who now seems to have an incessant need for attention with his weekly appearances on Pat Mcafee's show. Lying about his vax status and being mentored by Joe Rogan. And now, his intentionally strange, cryptic Instagram post.

I hope he's well, but none of this seems like normal behavior. Way too many red flags.

2 points
6
4
Alberta_Packer's picture

February 23, 2022 at 10:49 am

Think it is more a pre-midlife crisis - with a touch of early male menopause.

6 points
8
2
jurp's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:14 pm

And maybe a touch of Hollywooditis, thanks to Shailene.

0 points
2
2
Coldworld's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:35 pm

Al references the Walrus. Recently he sounds more like Jim Morrison to me.

2 points
3
1
Alberta_Packer's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:52 pm

Now Jurp, I'm coming to the aid of Ms. Woodley. If you've ever read her cv, it is apparent that she is an accomplished young woman - as an actor, producer, activist and environmentalist. I do believe that it was Rodgers trying to hitch his wagon to her star. And I do believe that she dumped him. Exactly why? We may never know. But I speculate that he may have gone "Uncle Rico" on her.

3 points
5
2
jurp's picture

February 23, 2022 at 04:18 pm

I strongly believe that she dumped him as well. That last weird post of his seemed to indicate that he still thinks they're together. Very odd.

3 points
3
0
13TimeChamps's picture

February 23, 2022 at 01:19 pm

Rodgers has lived in SoCal for years and dated both Olivia Munn and Danica Patrick in the past. I highly doubt Ms. Woodley gave him "Hollywooditis". Actually, she seems more down to earth and stable than him, to be honest.

5 points
5
0
jurp's picture

February 23, 2022 at 04:17 pm

I think she's more stable, but she has some very "woo" ideas that Rodgers is now parroting.

0 points
1
1
Lphill's picture

February 23, 2022 at 01:31 pm

You sound like a big fan of the view .

-5 points
1
6
13TimeChamps's picture

February 23, 2022 at 04:31 pm

The View. Is this your latest thing you've latched onto that you'll be making comments on ad nauseum for the next month? Do you ever bring anything constructive to any of the conversations on here? You would think all the down votes you get every time you post your nonsensical dribble would give you a clue how annoying you are.

2 points
3
1
LambeauPlain's picture

February 23, 2022 at 10:22 am

For a fellow who plays a position that requires making fast & solid decisions on the field, Rodgers is incredibly indecisive off it.

It also seems hiring Clements was not a prerequisite for Rodgers' return. Clements (a acknowledged QB whisperer) was more likely hired to coach up Love.

6 points
7
1
croatpackfan's picture

February 23, 2022 at 01:57 pm

I agree about Tom Clements. It is not likely that he will come back from retirement for Aaron Rodgers, as he has nothing to teach him about football. But chalange to prepare another young man to become top QB in NFL can be carrot for him. I read that he is truly enjoying in developing QBs.

1 points
2
1
Alberta_Packer's picture

February 23, 2022 at 10:55 am

It seems that when Rodgers was doing his Panchakarma cleanse - Ms. Woodley had done the Rodgers cleanse.

I wonder how many full length mirrors Rodgers has in his home? I'm guessing one in every room.

Public appreciations to only select members of the team - is not the greatest team building exercise.

3 points
7
4
Packers0808's picture

February 23, 2022 at 11:34 am

Miost likely Full Rom Wall mirrors in room and his cut outs in each room next to the Mirrors, one in each corner. He needs an ANAL Cleanse!

0 points
3
3
crayzpackfan's picture

February 23, 2022 at 01:25 pm

I think Rodgers is morphing into Jame Gumb (Buffalo Bill) from Silence of the Lambs. He’s scotch drunk while tucking in front of a mirror proclaiming he’d do himself. Meanwhile, he has a B list actress, a former nascar driver, and an accomplished actress at the bottom of well in his house.
For me? I’ll invoke lyrics from Pink Floyd’s Comfortably Numb in regards to Rodgers. “Your lips move but I can’t hear what you’re sayin.”
This cat is so pathologically in love with himself he makes the narcissistic poster boy hold his scotch.

1 points
4
3
crayzpackfan's picture

February 23, 2022 at 03:32 pm

Just trying to be obviously facetious. Thumbs up, thumbs down? It’s all good. I’m just goofing around. Have a great day everyone.

2 points
2
0
Leatherhead's picture

February 23, 2022 at 10:52 am

Not trying to be a wise ass, but….

What “lesson” should we have learned about the value of a good ILB?

Three years of 13 win seasons with Martinez, Kirksey, and Campbell. The defensive numbers, particularly against the run, are pretty similar.

I would think the lesson is that ILB isn’t as critical as some of us believe.

0 points
6
6
stockholder's picture

February 23, 2022 at 11:25 am

Most championship ILBs were clocked @ 4.5. They are the heart of the defense. With 11mil. available. Thanks to Clark. The next move should be a move to to keep it on the Defensive side. I wouldn't over -pay Campbell. Burks and Summers are leaving. So they will draft somebody.

-1 points
2
3
jannes bjornson's picture

February 23, 2022 at 03:08 pm

Campbell at Fair Value. Someone may overpay him, then you have to worry about the Inside position and the Edge in this draft. The Personnel Dept will have to hit on at minimum two ILBs in this draft that can backup the middle and actually hit someone on sp teams. Street free agents will be welcomed aboard. Yes, Burks and Summers have to go. The Three Phases of Football never Changes. The letdown from a Blocked punt is bad enough, but they gave them seven points.

3 points
3
0
stockholder's picture

February 23, 2022 at 03:27 pm

I doubt Gutey drafts a Lb in the first three rounds. The best are top 10. The hopefuls are top 50. The long shots are after. Campbell plays well in the 3-4. No way they go over 10 mil.

0 points
0
0
Leatherhead's picture

February 23, 2022 at 06:40 pm

Seven points, as in twice as many as the Packer offense scored after the first possession.

Look, the blocked punt was bad, but the game was still tied at that point, even with an offense that was useless. But with two more chances, we did squat. We scored 10 points. 10. In 65 career games, we've scored more in like 60 of them. We've lost every playoff game where we couldn't do better.

This was a HISTORICALLY BAD OFFENSIVE SHOWING. That's why our season ended.

2 points
2
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 24, 2022 at 10:12 am

Points are points and that seven Was Not earned.

0 points
0
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:11 pm

You could be right, but perception is Campbell made plays and whether it's Campbell or someone else, the middle of the defense needs a playmaker, at least IMHO.

8 points
8
0
Minniman's picture

February 23, 2022 at 01:13 pm

Like all things - after generally encountering moderate, you appreciate "good" when you get to experience it.

Campbell made a number of other players around him both look better and be less of a liability.

The old adage that you are only as good as your weakest link holds true.

Opponents somewhat targeted Darnell Savage and Chandon Sullivan when they weren't able to run or short pass.

Also, put Oren Burks in for more reps and see if the numbers that you were looking at remain the same.

If the Packers ST wasn't as calamitous as it was, they'd have gone to the SB - and we'd be having completely different conversations about Campbell (probably legacy - as opposed to efficacy).

4 points
5
1
Guam's picture

February 23, 2022 at 01:40 pm

Numbers are useful, but not always the only measuring stick. The Packers defense this year was as good as any in the last three years and was so without their two best players (Z. Smith and Alexander). Somebody else had to step up to help this defense and Campbell did. The eye test and the all-pro designation tells me Campbell was more of a difference maker than your post would suggest.

Having said that, I don't expect Gute and the Packers to change their philosophy about ILB. They clearly don't place a premium on the position and I see no reason for that to change. They will hope Barry can coach up another free agent miracle next year........

4 points
4
0
PeteK's picture

February 23, 2022 at 11:02 am

--Rodgers should have been in that pic with no spikes and socks and then we can read his instagram post backwards for a secret message.
--I can respect his Zen spiritualism. If it gives him peace and comfort who am I to judge. However, all the offseason drama and vaccine duplicity has signs of a person who is not at peace with himself and fellow beings. The FO gave him 6 all pros and 3 high caliber players over the last few seasons, so to loudly complain about drafting a young, developmental QB is just unappreciative.
--The video is just hilarious and provides the cure that laughter can provide during these tough times. I wish Putin would take the Panchakarma.

2 points
4
2
splitpea1's picture

February 23, 2022 at 11:44 am

Trapped: I'm in total agreement with this....losing the swirling drama surrounding Rodgers is addition by subtraction, anyway. They bring Rodgers back and I probably transition into more of a casual fan (at least during the regular season) until he goes away; I'm so tired of it all. Anything beats being stuck in this stagnation bubble, even if it means a little short-term losing. If Adams goes, maybe we lose both of them.

Same goes if they don't re-sign Campbell and don't replace him with either a high draft pick or a mid-level free agent who is durable and plays with attitude. The old philosophy of devaluing this position has to be kicked to the curb for good.

Sorry, I've seen Mr. Grossi before, and it seems like he should consider another hobby besides comedy. He's not funny. Good humorists are hard to find.

5 points
6
1
Alberta_Packer's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:24 pm

That's legitimate - a critical review of a comedic performance piece.

2 points
2
0
Ferrari-Driver's picture

February 23, 2022 at 11:45 am

Al, one of the options that I hear periodically is that Aaron Rodgers will retire.

I just realized that would mean that he will have retired the same year that Tom Brady retired who he is a seven time Super Bowl Champion and a five time Super Bowl MVP.

Rodgers is no dummy and If I thought of it, I'm sure a guy as smart as Aaron is aware of the fact that he would be sharing the Hall of Fame state with Tom Brady who may very well be the center of attention during that ceremony based upon his Super Bowl career. Do you think Rodgers would want to share that stage or perhaps even be lessor celebrity? I, of course, don't know, but it may be a factor in Rodgers playing one or more seasons.

10 points
11
1
Alberta_Packer's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:09 pm

That would certainly fit within his personality profile. Also some time ago, he said that he wanted to play, at least, until 40. I think that still remains a meaningful milestone to him.

5 points
6
1
BruceC1960's picture

February 23, 2022 at 03:32 pm

So, the thinking is the decision we are waiting for is to play for the Packers or request a trade? Maybe retirement isn’t even being considered? If he can’t decide whether he wants to play or not, the decision is clear. If the 100% desire to play isn’t there, you need to walk.

0 points
0
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:45 pm

Not only that, Big Ben would be ahead of him as well, with two Super Bowl wins to ARs one. He dang sure ain't going to play 3rd fiddle.

He won't retire until he knows he'll be top dog of the class for sure.

6 points
7
1
Swisch's picture

February 23, 2022 at 04:27 pm

Good points about Brady and Big Ben.
In defense of Rodgers, I wouldn't blame him for feeling this way to some degree.
I sincerely am roting for Rodgers his life on the field and off. I'be

0 points
0
0
Swisch's picture

February 23, 2022 at 04:29 pm

Good points about Brady and Big Ben.
In defense of Rodgers, I wouldn't blame him for feeling this way to some degree.
I sincerely am rooting for Rodgers in his life on the field and off. I've been a big fan of his over the years. He's welcome to join me for some Scotch.

0 points
0
0
Swisch's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:16 pm

Wow! Rodgers really got hammered today on Mike Greenberg's show as being selfish for dragging out his decision process.
I mention this with the idea that the show may be re-aired later today, or that this segment may be available on ESPN online. I don't usually watch this show.
I also mention it because, as usual, I'm interested in getting reactions and thoughts from the other good fans here at CHTV. I mean that sincerely.

1 points
3
2
Alberta_Packer's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:29 pm

I have somewhat mixed feelings about a Season 2 of "As The Football Spirals."

5 points
6
1
Swisch's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:44 pm

Greetings to Alberta, Canada.
My feelings are not mixed, as I'm quite weary of the Rodgers spin.
May the locale of this agonizing melodrama be moved to a different NFL city.

7 points
8
1
Alberta_Packer's picture

February 23, 2022 at 01:08 pm

And -20 greetings from Calgary, Alberta!

Truly, I /We should move on from this melodrama. However, as a live theater enthusiast, I will miss, somewhat, this Theater of The Absurd.

6 points
6
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 23, 2022 at 03:17 pm

Fringe Festival

1 points
1
0
Swisch's picture

February 23, 2022 at 12:57 pm

Really, at what point does the management team of the Packers show some spine and self-respect and make the decision for Aaron Rodgers?
***
At best, about two weeks ago, Gute and Murph appear together and say something like: As the heartless bastards that we were portrayed as last summer by Aaron Rodgers, we're shipping off his sorry, self-absorbed ass and recent record of playoff failure to the highest bidder. Our phone lines are open immediately for offers."
***
Okay, probably too much.
However (with sincere urgency behind this upcoming joke... here it comes...) the Packers need a cleansing from the toxicity of Aaron Rodgers.
I would venture to say that it's hard to overestimate how much he has contaminated this organization from head to toe.
To rid ourselves of him as soon as possible is the only way to a healthy future.
Gute and Murph and LaFleur must demonstrate the good sense and firm resolve to get this done for the good of Packer nation.

7 points
9
2
beerandbrats's picture

February 23, 2022 at 02:03 pm

Love your articles Al! Always insightful and entertaining!

0 points
0
0
Return_To_Sanity's picture

February 23, 2022 at 02:06 pm

Longtime Packer fan and longtime CHTV reader but first time commenter. I'm glad to find other Packer enthusiasts who aren't trapped under 12's spell as many fanboys are. As my user name reads, I just want a return to sanity for this team before 12 leads it off a cliff. Murphy/Gute/MLF what are you guys doing? Do you have no dignity? This man held a press conference trashing you for 20 minutes straight after you all flew across the country and calloused your knees to keep him happy. Where's the courage and conviction that it took to draft Jordan Love? Has it all been replaced by fear and cowardice? I've never been more ashamed and embarrassed to be a Green Bay Packer fan than I am right now. Vince Lombardi has to be turning in his grave.

6 points
9
3
Swisch's picture

February 23, 2022 at 04:22 pm

Welcome to CHTV, Return_to_Sanity.
It's a very good thing to get newcomers to add their perspectives, especially when they agree with me (as in this case), but even if they don't ;-).
Robust and respectful discussion can make for a good measure of fun.

2 points
2
0
Return_To_Sanity's picture

February 23, 2022 at 06:05 pm

Thank you Swisch. I'm looking forward to the many discussions to come as things progress.

2 points
2
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

February 24, 2022 at 03:58 am

I had an employee who was a jerk. I put up with him because he made me money. Aaron Rodgers helps check the win column. Simple as that.

I am not overly concerned about the state of Murphy's knees.

1 points
3
2
Return_To_Sanity's picture

February 24, 2022 at 10:43 am

As a fan, are you content with just making money?

5 points
5
0
Leatherhead's picture

February 24, 2022 at 02:22 pm

A lot of folks have way too much angst over this.

Murphy, Gutekunst, Ball, and LaFleur, are working on the plan for next season. They would prefer to move forward with Rodgers, apparently, but they’ll go with Plan B if necessary. Rodgers just needs to decide if he wants to play in Green Bay or somewhere else or retire. A, B, or C.

As long as this doesn’t get all drawn out, like The Favre Kabouki Retirement Dance, I don’t see this as a problem. It’s not preventing the organization from doing other things, and when he decides the team will be ready to respond.

If he wants to be our QB this season, I’m fine with that. If we block for him he’ll protect the ball and put points on the board and we’ll be favorites to win the division. Love gives us the best backup since 2007. We’ll let a few guys go and rework some deals and basically bring most of the team back.

Adams………………..I think it’d be better to replace him.

0 points
1
1
Return_To_Sanity's picture

February 24, 2022 at 06:00 pm

Despite my distaste for Rodgers these days, the problem isnt solely bringing him back or not. Its the risk vs reward of how much future salary cap do they have to sacrifice to bring him back and bring back the players that he finds satisfactory. As well as how does this new found Rodgers loyalism amongst front office effect their overall operations? Is he going to have say in draft picks now? Whos going to be this year's Randall Cobb? How much control are they actually willing to give this guy? From what I've seen, they've already capitulated more than enough. They should'nt have bent at all. Trading for Randall Cobb last year just to make Rodgers happy cost them a realistic chance at signing OBJ cuz they didnt have enough salary cap left to give him what he wanted. The power they give Rodgers will have consequences. There's already been consequences. How far are they really willing to bend here? I really dont want to find out.

1 points
1
0
HarryHodag's picture

February 23, 2022 at 05:02 pm

I have never been involved with the social media 'biggee's. To use their service you get the honor of having your private information taken and used to sell you stuff you don't want and they sell it to others. What I've noticed is most people see their social media as more important than the real things in their lives.

Rodgers: the Packers will win if he returns and they will be ok if he leaves. If Rodgers is gone Matt LF can then convert the offense to more of a ground game. I would say 'poop or get off the pot' Aaron but he's already apparently done that following his cleanse.

Campbell: there's no need for the Packers to feel poorly about Campbell. Did anyone see him having that type of season? They do need to find a Micah Parsons-type LB in the draft.

3 points
3
0
beerandbrats's picture

February 23, 2022 at 05:58 pm

sorry, double-post!

0 points
0
0