Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - April 21 2021

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

 

 

Classifieds: Apartment for Rent

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OurLads Scouting Services:

Just want to give a shout out to perhaps my favorite draft scouting service. Ourlads has been scouting and reporting on college prospects since before there was an internet. Their approach is a little old school, preferring in-person evaluations by their scouts in addition to film work. Of course, this was difficult to do in 2020, but regardless, they do perhaps the best job I've seen of ranking prospects and predicting in what round they're likely to be drafted. They're not part of the Draft Industrial Complex and don't go along with the crowd or group think. Their rankings often differ from the internet  "consensus" and they're usually more accurate. Note I don't have any affiliation with them or any reason to recommend them other than I like their work.

 

Underappreciated OL Prospect:

I don't know if you can call a two-year starter at left tackle for the Clemson Tigers a "sleeper," but how many people have you seen talking up Jackson Carman? Among OTs likely to be available at pick 29, you hear plenty of chatter about Tevin Jenkins, Alex Leatherwood, Samuel Cosmi and even some Dillon Radunz and Liam Eichenberg. Well I'm hear to tell you - don't sleep on Jackson Carman! The only knock against him is arm length, which has caused some to peg him as a guard. To that point, he would perfectly fit the Packers M.O. of drafting left tackles and moving them inside - I think Carman could be a Josh Sitton type as a guard. However,  I think he's worthy of pick 29 and I also think he could step in and start at right tackle as a rookie ala David Bakhtiari and more than hold his own. I had him ranked as my #5 offensive tackle in the CHTV Draft Guide, which I thought might be overzealous until I received my Ourlads draft guide last night and guess who they had as their #5 tackle prospect? See how I tied that all together?

 

da Bears:

You almost have to feel sorry for the Bears when even Jim McMahon rips them and says Chicago is where quarterbacks go to die. Almost...

 

Ask Aaron Rodgers:

Want info on your favorite athlete? Well Aaron Rodgers wants to give it to you. Rodgers and co-founder actor Ryan Rottman have launched an online sports database. According to Rodgers, "OSDB is a premiere digital sports database and growing daily. At OSDB, you’ll find stats, breaking news, human interest stories and personal information on your favorite athletes.” From their press release: Online Sports Database is a digital sports platform with the most extensive sports information on the web. Founded in 2021 by NFL Superstar and producer Aaron Rodgers and actor and entrepreneur Ryan Rottman, the platform gives fans and professionals a one-stop-shop for athletes’ personal interests, business ventures, charities and career statistics, along with agent and management contact information. OSDB currently features complete NFL, NBA and MLB databases and original editorial content, with more sports coming soon.

 

Never Forget:

For clarification, Bennett was responding to a CHTV tweet about the proposed soccer "Super League" lasting almost as long as Martellus Bennett on the Packers:

__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

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Comments (123)

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NickPerry's picture

April 21, 2021 at 06:42 am

That Martellus Bennett, what a classey athlete! Hey wait a minute, doesn't he write Childrens Books? What an ass!

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x24's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:50 am

Lighten up on Bennett, he's just clapping back to a dig

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nostradanus's picture

April 21, 2021 at 06:53 am

Jackson Carmen, dude is thick and oh by the way, Clemson was one on the Gutekunst scouting tour, hmmmm

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:43 am

I think Clemson's Pro Day might be on every NFL teams scouting tour.

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nostradanus's picture

April 21, 2021 at 09:30 am

True :)

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 09:56 am

It's what i do, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 21, 2021 at 11:28 am

Many raised eyebrows when Gutey drafted Jenkins. I did until I watched his extensive play video. Then I was happy happy happy. He plays for the Pack exactly as he did in college...stonewall solid in pass pro and a natural in run blocks...often blocking two guys on one play. If Carmen is as consistently excellent as Jenks, come on down.

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Bearmeat's picture

April 21, 2021 at 07:16 am

Other than draft at least 1 CB before round 5, I have NO IDEA what Gute will do. None. Maybe that's a good thing.

PS: Martellus was a terrible signing. So was Graham. At least Jimmy wasn't a jerk though. UGH. We've had schlock at TE for so long.. until 2020! :D

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 10:17 am

We had finally found someone with Jared Cook that Rodgers had built some rapport with, but it wasn't to be.

Note: We ended up paying Bennett 7.3 million for 7 games. (2017)

Cook was paid 5.3 million by the Raiders for the whole season. (2017)
Then 5.6 million the following season. (2018)

That was followed up by the Graham signing for only 10 mill/year

All in all....we found a productive tight end in 2020.
Tonyan.... a Thompson UDFA find at a cost of 1.1 million.

Its a crazy world isn't it

Fixed (for now) and it only took four years and 29 million dollars

That didn't take long

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Coldworld's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:35 am

Ask Mr. Ball about that one. He pulled the plug on negotiations. Of course the true whys aren’t about to be told.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:55 am

I agree...Ball or Ted, or both.

There was reportedly some drama between Cooks agent and the Packers.

It's a business though, sometimes you have to put personalities aside, and do what's right for the team.

We don't know exactly what went on.....
But, what we do know is...the Packers weren't the winners.

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Bearmeat's picture

April 21, 2021 at 11:27 am

Thank God Ball was bypassed at GM. Ted really lost it by 2015... Sad. He was stubborn as a mule, but was a HOF GM from 05-09, and a good one overall from 10-14.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 12:08 pm

I agree...

We can actually thank McCarthy for that.
He put the brakes on that.

I always thought to be the GM you had to have actual scouting or talent evaluation skills to qualify for that position.

But then again.....i always thought a team President should have some front office NFL executive experience, but somehow.... that didn't stop Murphy.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 12:14 pm

Related: After the 2014 NFCCG, changes should have been made at GM and head coach.

But under Murphys "no accountability" work atmosphere, that was nearly impossible.

Maybe Murphy should also have been let go....but then again, i never understood why he was hired to begin with.

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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

April 21, 2021 at 12:24 pm

What a knee-jerk reaction to the 2014 season end. You want to fire the GM that built one of the top rosters in the league and a Super Bowl winning coach because of a melt-down by a special teamer? Does hindsight help you any with Murphy? He sort of got the team back on track . . . after TT aged out and MM didn't grow with the times.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 04:25 pm

That isn't my reaction....today

TT was slipping badly in his drafting.

McCarthy didn't have the pulse of his team, and nobody was held accountable under him. Everyone had free reign to do what they wanted.

A reporter asked McCarthy after the game why Mathews didn't play the last 5 minutes....McCarthy didn't know Mathews took himself out.

McCarthy called the plays on offense. He let the rest of the team worry about themselves.
He was basically a offensive coordinator.

Murphy didn't fire Ted until he was told to do so by someone on the Board of Directors.

The next time you want to challenge me, have something more than a "knee jerk reaction".

Have some knowledge other than...

"They won a Super Bowl.. how dare you!"

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13TimeChamps's picture

April 21, 2021 at 03:23 pm

You're such an ass.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 04:20 pm

Look whose stalking....

Lets try and keep the discussions football related 13.

If you want to continue your obsessive personal attacks and harassment on readers and their parents, isn't there a better website you could find?

Maybe a teen forum somewhere would be more befitting to your personality?

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13TimeChamps's picture

April 21, 2021 at 04:38 pm

You really are piece of work. Calling people names and mocking their intelligence on pretty much a daily basis.

Pot meet kettle.

Are you this insufferable in person as well?

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 05:09 pm

People raise concerns or questions, i address them related to football

You seem to create more problems thinking you make the rules or deciding what people can and can't post here.

Do you think all your personal and family insults really help?

Why are you so obsessed about it?

I've asked you nicely to stop multiple times

I'm going to tell you one more time.

Go complain to Mr. Nagler...

Or go tell your problems to Jesus, he cares, we don't.

This is a football forum....try to keep your comments football related instead of trying to look for trouble.

I don't want to have to have this conversation with you again, understand?

So fly right from now on.

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13TimeChamps's picture

April 21, 2021 at 05:40 pm

Fuck you. When you've accomplished half of what I have in life, maybe you can tell me what you want and don't want. Even then I won't care. You're an egotistical condescending self absorbed boring bully who antagonizes people from the safety of your computer. We both know you would never talk to people like that to their face. I'm sure this is how you get your macho fix. You're probably the kid who got their jock strap pulled down on your head in gym class.

And as far as what people don't care about on here....your inability to let go of the 2020 draft is high on that list. But you keep preaching the truth as only you see it even though no one cares.

If you don't like what I post....stop responding back. Pretty simple.

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jannes bjornson's picture

April 22, 2021 at 12:32 am

That's pretty much the story. After that debacle, it was time to clean house and forget about real estate write-offs.

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 21, 2021 at 11:30 am

Cook, Hyde and Hayward were among my greatest disappointments from the head of Ted.

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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

April 21, 2021 at 12:26 pm

Hyde was slow and dropped so many picks in GB. Hayward was hurt a bunch and they had 2 promising rookies that everyone thought would take a second year leap. Cook was hurt too and took plenty of time to develop into a contributor. I can't blame any of those on Ted in the moment. Only in hindsight do they look disappointing. Plenty of reason for those decisions at the time they were made.

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Coldworld's picture

April 21, 2021 at 06:37 pm

Can’t go that far with Hyde or Cook. It was apparently Ball who by then made those decisions not TT. Randall was more excusable.

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Razer's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:00 am

Agree with both of you. We were so fixated on getting a TE and yet McCarthy (and Rodgers to some extent) didn't know how to use a TE in that offense. Packers had zero over the middle attack and relied on the WR to carry the offense. As time has shown, a better run game was a better investment.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:10 am

True...McCarthy lacked the desire to implement Cook, Graham, more into the game plan.
See the bears concerning Graham in red zone production.

The same goes for Aaron Jones, LaFluer opened that playbook to fully utilize Jones.

I think in retrospect, Rodgers wasn't the problem there.
Based on his occasional flare ups with McCarthy, he might have been trying to fix the problems.

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Coldworld's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:37 am

Can’t agree with you on MM not wanting to use TEs. Cook was unavailable through injury for quite a while. The problem was how MM was trying to use TEs by that point.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:59 am

It wasn't just Cook, it was Graham also.

Plus...I think Finley was under utilized also.

I don't think they got the most out of him.

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Coldworld's picture

April 21, 2021 at 06:40 pm

Finley was MMs fetish. Underused is a description that I can’t rationally apply to Finley’s usage. Graham was over used.

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 21, 2021 at 11:36 am

Cook was the best TE in GB since Finley and Ted let him walk out the door. But MM was as you say in his last few years...4 even 5 WRs running the same routes and daring defenses to stop them. And in 2017 and 2018, they did. And when #12 missed games it was a hot mess O with token run game.

Glad to have you, Coach Matt!

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Oppy's picture

April 22, 2021 at 01:10 am

You guys are nuts with the idea that MM didn't know how to utilize a TE in his offense. Jermichael Finley, anyone?

In fact, during Finley's break out season that abruptly ended when he was lost due to injury, MM stated the following post season that the lesson learned was he should not build his offense so dependent on a single player.

The under utilization of TE's and the middle of the field fell on one guy, that's Aaron Rodgers. Routes were there. Windows were there. The throws were what was missing- that does not add up to a coach not implementing the TE into the offense. Somewhere along the line Rodgers extreme protection of the ball led him to basically avoid throwing over the middle of the field. TE or WR, no matter.. Rodgers wasn't throwing the ball between the hashes. It wasn't until the last two seasons he's actually re-assessed and changed his game- that includes mechanics and decision making- and started to utilize more of the field again.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 07:44 am

Is the tweet from CHTV to Bennett supposed to be a burn?
Who burned who?

Bennett signed a 3 year deal with Green Bay, shy of 7 million a year.

Green Bay already paid him 6.3 million before his first game.
Bennett played in 7 games, caught 24 passes for 233 yards..0 TD's

When the Packers waived him, he was paid 7.3 million by the Packers.

FYI...There is a difference with leaving a team, and being waived by a team

The Packers went to the NFL to try and retrieve 4.2 million from Bennett, citing injury non disclosure on Bennett's part. The NFL told the Packers buyer beware.

Who burned who?

Put in perspective...details matter.

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Razer's picture

April 21, 2021 at 07:49 am

Packers front office got a little messy in Ted's final years. Bennett rolled up the carpet when the team headed for a losing season and showed his true colors. If nothing else, it was a poor character choice. The purge when Gutekunst got the position was necessary. I just hope that we have enough good talent evaluators in the new mix.

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JerseyAl's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:43 am

All true, but the important detail you're leaving out is Bennett quitting on the team once Rodgers had the collarbone injury (as many Packers players expressed) and doing everything possible to get himself waived, including accusing the most conservative medical staff in the league of forcing him to play with an injury.

https://madison.com/wsj/sports/football/professional/packers-multiple-gr...

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 12:32 pm

I hear ya....

I thought both Bennett's are piles of S as far as human beings. Before the signing

I think that a lot of players knew the season wasn't going anywhere with Hundley. They just weren't as blatantly overt about it as Bennett. But that is how Bennett operates.

We don't know what went on concerning Bennett's medical issues.
But we know one thing....
The league sided with Bennett on medical issues about pre existing injuries in quick order.

If a team gives you a physical...and the team Doctors pass you, then shame on the team.
That's maybe how the NFL felt.

The bottom line is this concerning Bennett, and it might be more important than any other fact.

The Packers knew.....they knew Bennett was a head case (everyone in the league knew) and they signed him anyway.

That very issue...was discussed by many right after Bennett was signed.

If you want to invite a crazy person into your home for dinner....don't act shocked if he starts throwing mashed potato's at the wall.

Also...be careful paying a player most of his salary in advance, before the season even starts.

Which is what they did restructuring Preston Smith's contract.
He already has most of his money for this season.
Hopefully that has different results.

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 21, 2021 at 11:41 am

Bennett being quitter after Aaron got hurt is a very important point...he was a cancer in the locker room as other teammates were playing banged up and trying to salvage a season. Making millions while being a malcontent sitting on your arse while I am busting mine would make me a bit POed.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 12:40 pm

You may also remember....when Bennett joined the Packers, he was more interested in recruiting SJW's on the team, than playing football.

Bennet even recruited Rodger's and turned him into his SJW's mouthpiece.
It made me sick to my stomach that Rodgers would get caught up in Bennett's head

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Ferrari-Driver's picture

April 21, 2021 at 11:46 am

I don't like to speak negatively about people, but Bennett was just a horse's ass both on and off the field.

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packerbackerjim's picture

April 21, 2021 at 07:38 am

I don’t get drafting a tackle only to convert him to guard, something not in short supply. How about drafting a tackle and turn him into a better tackle, a real need.

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Razer's picture

April 21, 2021 at 07:40 am

Amen

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PeteK's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:34 am

Yes, but many scouts have him as a good RT prospect in the pros.

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jannes bjornson's picture

April 22, 2021 at 12:40 am

He has the length and strong base, but he has to drop 10#s to play wide zone schemes.

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JerseyAl's picture

April 22, 2021 at 09:58 am

If we're talking about Carman, he was listed at 335 last season, but weighed in at 317 at his Pro Day, so he's aware and wants to be a tackle.

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jannes bjornson's picture

April 22, 2021 at 01:18 pm

Thanks, that is impressive and shows some dedication. This guy can be a RT and maybe hold the fort until Bhak. returns on the left flank. Tree trunk strong.

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 21, 2021 at 11:50 am

I agree...just as I am opposed drafting DEs and trying to turn them into OLBs and cover TEs. Draft OLBs and let them play OLB. IE CMIII And Z.

The Kid from TX, Ossai, would be an interesting day two pick. Played inside 2 years and OLB his last year. Played standing up and is like CMIII....relentless.

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13TimeChamps's picture

April 21, 2021 at 03:30 pm

"...just as I am opposed drafting DEs and trying to turn them into OLBs and cover TEs."

One of my biggest gripes with the Packers over the past 10 years or so. Nick Perry, Datone Jones, Mike Neal to name a few. I never understood that thinking.

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flackcatcher's picture

April 22, 2021 at 02:12 pm

Capers was doing Pettine before Pettine with his elephant scheme. It worked too, when Perry and Neal were not injured. Defense carried the team in 2014 when the offense fell apart. (Hard to believe that Jody Nelson was that important. Then lost every starting WR after that)

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Ferrari-Driver's picture

April 21, 2021 at 12:12 pm

Well said and I'll drink to that!

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PewAuKeeFan's picture

April 21, 2021 at 10:57 pm

Tackles are typically better players (more athletic?) than guards. Yes, it would be best to get a elite tackle. But using a good tackle to be a good or better guard is sound reasoning. So if the good tackle on the board is better than the best guard on the board, take the tackle.

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Slim11's picture

April 22, 2021 at 06:37 am

A great example is former Packer Mike Wahle. He was a tackle in college but didn't do well as a NFL tackle. He was moved inside to guard and had a solid career. He was an All-Star selection several times.

But, that move can also backfire. Derek Sherrod was a LT in college and a very good one. When GB drafted him in 2011, he was penciled in as a day one starter at guard. Chad Clifton and Brian Bulaga were the starting tackles at the time. Mark Tauscher was also on the roster. This was also when the CBA was being renegotiated and there was no mini-camp or OTAs. There might not have been a rookie camp either.

Injuries, unfortunately, derailed his career. Had he not been moved out of position under these circumstances, what kind of football career might Sherrod have enjoyed? Another question for another day...

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Oppy's picture

April 22, 2021 at 01:20 am

They do take tackles and make them better tackles. (Bakh and Bulaga).

I think the idea is that left tackles have elite pass blocking skills and usually have excellent feet, generally better athletes than guards.

The Packers place a premium on pass blocking above all else (protect the franchise) and run a zone blocking ground attack.

So by taking LT's that might not quite be NFL starter-talent at LT, and converting them to guards, you're getting exceptional pass blockers with the agility to get to the second level and zone block effectively in the run game. You're also getting tackle talent at guard pricing, and theoretically, a guard who can play tackle in a pinch better than most guards would.

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Razer's picture

April 21, 2021 at 07:39 am

Looks like there will be a decent OT right down to our 2nd round pick. Given the clump of 2-3 round talent, I really would like to see us trade back into the 2nd round and maybe even pick up a 3 rounder. I think that there is less chance of Gutekunst doing this than trading up. He seems to be an anxious drafter rather than a guy who lets the draft come to him. A lot of developmental talent in this draft - I hope our college scouts are up to the challenge.

I also hope that the Packers and Rodgers are in communications about the future. Seems like Gutekunst is giving Rodgers another shot (or two) at the crown then hitting reset. What they do with Davante Adams will give us better insight. I don't know where the money will come from to give Adams a big payout and still put a solid team around the select few. We may be looking at a one year window.

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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

April 21, 2021 at 12:31 pm

I don't see Gutey as anxious. I see him as aggressive, going up and getting necessary talent to improve the team. It worked with Gary as we could see him develop last year and with Savage and Jaire. He was going after key positions looking for long-term starters.

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Slim11's picture

April 22, 2021 at 10:03 am

If nothing changes regarding the salary cap, this is the best scenario. However, doing so takes away the fifth year option from the team. If Rodgers does renegotiate the cap hit from his contract, then there is less reason to do this.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 07:54 am

The Packers will be drafting Quinn "Let The Belly Breathe" Meinerz in the 3rd round to replace Linsley.

Possibly the 2nd if they trade down from the first.

You heard it here first.

Packer Fan 4 Life

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Guam's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:18 am

The Packers already have three prospective replacements on the roster for Linsley. (1) Jenkins who played center in college, or (2) Patrick who played center when Linsley was injured last year, or (3) Hanson who played center in college and was on the PS last year. If Jenkins or Patrick slide over to center, the Packers have Runyon or Stepaniak to replace them at guard. The Packers have depth at interior OL already and my guess is that Patrick slides over to center and Runyon replaces him at RG.

They have other needs for that third round pick (CB, DL, OT, ILB).

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:34 am

What have we learned with Gute...expect the unexpected.

I don't want to move Jenkins unless it's to play tackle and i don't know if he has the feet to be a good tackle.

Patrick, imo is not a starter in this league.

The rest are unproven. No...a game or 3 of spot duty fill in...is not proven.

Let The Belly Breathe

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Coldworld's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:45 am

Patrick has been just fine as a starter. Elite no, but genuine starter without doubt. You would spend a second on a position that is ordinarily drafted later and do so for a small school player on the basis of the senior bowl and expect him to start?

No thanks

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 09:49 am

He's a Whitewater guy....it's all tongue in cheek people. Jeeeeez!

I just like his quote about him letting his belly breathe :)

R-E-L-A-X

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 10:22 am

Just one?

I have a goal to reach by draft day people.

Can we put a little more effort into it?

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Guam's picture

April 21, 2021 at 10:23 am

A draft choice (even a #2 or #3) will be unproven too. Gute drafted three developmental prospects at IOL last year for a reason and the only reason that makes sense was to develop a replacement for Linsley. How ready they are is a story that will be told in this year's draft. If the Packers don't take an IOL early, then they like one or more of last year's picks to replace Linsley.

While Runyon is not proven, he was acceptable as a rookie in spot duty. Stepaniak was widely regarded as a higher pick than a #6 but was drafted that late due to his ACL injury (i.e. he needed a redshirt year). The Packers had both on the 53 at the end of last season. Just reading the tea leaves - I think the Packers have Linsley's replacement already on the roster and will use this year's picks to fill other holes.

I like the Whitewater guy and wish him the best, but not at #3 to the Packers.

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Titletown222's picture

April 21, 2021 at 09:58 am

We are a run first team and have an aging QB. OL was awesome last year which helped make us the best offense in the league. We lost a pro bowl center and (to start the season) LT. We need to fortify our line including our depth

We don’t know how good the Packers feel about their center options. I doubt they want to move a pro bowl guard to any other position. If the team feels there is an effective starting center in rounds 2-5, I’m not going to be upset if we pull the trigger.

We spent a 2nd round pick on a center a couple of years ago that seems to have worked out rather well

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dobber's picture

April 21, 2021 at 09:09 am

I would not at all be surprised if the Packers drafted a plug-and-play IOL early in this draft...esp. if it's a C.

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nostradanus's picture

April 21, 2021 at 09:32 am

I would love that choice

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Since'61's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:04 am

I think that it's time for Packer fans to build a grass roots movement for Jersey Al to be Packers GM or at least Head of Scouting. He seems to do a more thorough job than the Packers FO at finding good players to add to the roster during the draft.

Bennett was a disaster and letting Cook go to FA compounded the errors at TE. But that is water under the bridge at this point. If they remain healthy our TE position group looks pretty strong for once. Thanks, Since '61

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:39 am

Yea...i might be that desperate soon...anything might be a step up.

I've got a 15 year old next door neighbor, who is consumed by the draft, knows more about potential draft picks than i ever will, or would ever want to.

It's the damndest thing though for a 15 year old kid.

I could get a resume and a right to work waiver from his parents

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JerseyAl's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:59 am

Ha! Let's not get carried away there, '61...

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Since'61's picture

April 21, 2021 at 10:06 pm

If the Packers do take Jackson Carmen you should get a finders fee at least. Thanks, Since '61

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gkarl's picture

April 21, 2021 at 09:22 am

Are you angling for a comp on next years draft guide?? :)

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 21, 2021 at 01:31 pm

You are complaining about (RIP) TT. Gutey has assembled one of the best rosters in the NFL via draft, FAs, UDFAs, and keeping current players in GB and hiring coach Matt.

So far, Gutey has done a good job IMO. 28-8 over the last 2 years is solid evidence.

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Handsback's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:47 am

Because the Pack picks so late, they will have to move up if they have a specific target. My feeling is if they have a target, it’s a CB. I thought maybe a DT/DE but CB fits their actions. Maybe Farley dropping if his physical checks out, if not Newsome?

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Leatherhead's picture

April 21, 2021 at 09:03 am

The next time someone tries to tell you that talent trumps character, mention Martellus Bennett.

Jared Cook never stays anywhere very long. There’s a reason for that.

I like Jackson Carman, but not at #29, and not if the plan is to make him a guard. He’s not a left tackle in the pros and that’s why he’s not more highly regarded.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 09:44 am

Jared Cook never stays anywhere very long

1 reason..the Packers

In his last 3 seasons, he's scored 22 TD passes and moved the chains 105 times with a 14 yard average.
I don't hear any teams saying he wasn't worth the money.

And he did it...far cheaper than 10 mill/year, amirite....Gute?

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JerseyAl's picture

April 21, 2021 at 10:04 am

Gute was not the GM.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 10:40 am

Interesting...wanna try again?

Whose contract paid an average of 10/mill a year, making him the highest paid tight end in the NFL?

HINT: The same GM who got rid of the dead weight known as Jordy Nelson 3 days earlier

HINT: On March 16, 2018, (PLAYER X) signed a three-year, $30 million contract with the Green Bay Packers

OK...once that name is established...who was the GM who signed that player?

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PeteK's picture

April 21, 2021 at 12:02 pm

I wonder what you said when Graham was first signed. I for one was happy because he was coming off a season with 10 TDs. Do you like to throw long passes on Monday morning? LOL

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 01:40 pm

WONDER....NO MORE....
********************

PF4L March 13, 2018
I have no words…

But i will.
**************************
Article on whether the Packers overpayed Graham

PF4L March 28, 2018
Is water wet?

This was a bad signing on a few levels, none of which were brought up above.
******************************

PF4L March 28, 2018

Lets talk cash……The first year cap hit is only 5.6 million. Sounds attractive doesn’t it? But we’ve already paid him 11 million before he laces them up. Save now, pay more cap later. Jimmy Graham is now the #1 paid tight end in the NFL. Is he the #1 performing tight end, absolutely not. It’s the Packers Way.
*******************
Article on how Graham picked the Packers over more money from another team.

PF4L April 18, 2018
Jimmy turned down the Saints reported 7 or 8/mill a year offer from the Saints.

Jimmy signed for 10/mill a year with the Packers.

Jimmy ain’t in it for the money?

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 01:47 pm

Now...what's this about Monday morning?
I didn't understand it.
I'm a bit slow sometimes.
Help me understand.

Pete.....ignorance isn't a positive attribute in life.
Stop bathing in it.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 01:45 pm

Pete....

Have you ever WONDERED why the Packers cut Graham before his 3rd season?

Take a guess...and yes, there are wrong answers.

But i'll help you through it if needed.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 04:11 pm

Pete?

Peter?

Hello!?

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JerseyAl's picture

April 21, 2021 at 04:24 pm

I don't know WTF you are talking about, but Ted was the GM that decided to let Jared Cook walk in March of 2017. Gute became GM in January of 2018.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 04:46 pm

Let me try to simple this up.....

First i never said Gute was the GM who signed Cook.

Cook was gone a year before Gute was made GM.

Here's where you got lost........

I said.....

"And he did it...far cheaper than 10 million/year, amirite Gute

What that meant was....it was a DIG on Gute for paying 10 mill/year to Graham, hence why it was placed in the same sentence.

Is it really that hard to comprehend?

Cook performed much better than Graham over those years, for much cheaper.
It was a statement of fact and a shot at Gute.

Thank you for understanding.

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JerseyAl's picture

April 21, 2021 at 04:53 pm

no, Dash, let me spell this out for you - you're confusing yourself with your own nonsense.. You responded to a comment amount Jared Cook. then you mentioned Jared Cook. Then you mentioned Gute. Clear enough for you?

BTW, I'm done (yet again) with your hijacking of the comment section with your insults and condescension towards everyone. Say goodbye!!!

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 21, 2021 at 01:35 pm

Ted let him walk...just like Hyde and Hayward after drafting duds Randall and Rollins.

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Oppy's picture

April 22, 2021 at 01:35 am

I believe the Packers were going to make an offer to Hayward after he tested the market to gauge his value, but Hayward took the lack of an offer before his impending FA as a slight and never looked back.

It was a model that was employed by GB on numerous players- let them test the market to see what they were worth, then counter offer and let the player decide if they wanted to chase the highest bidder or take an honest offer from the Packers.

I believe it was a model that Ted Thompson put in place, and I think Ted believed it was fair for everyone involved- the player gets to find out what other teams are willing to pay him, the Packers get to make an informed offer that is based on a combination of what they can afford and what the market bears.

It allowed a player to make the best decision for themselves and allowed the Packers to offer a fair contract without overspending.

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PeteK's picture

April 21, 2021 at 09:07 am

I would stay put in the first round and move up in the second round to get the CB & T we need.

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stockholder's picture

April 21, 2021 at 10:03 am

Try DL.

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jannes bjornson's picture

April 21, 2021 at 11:54 am

Third and fourth round if they stay there. I want Collins to run the ILB spot and then bag an OT

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stockholder's picture

April 21, 2021 at 01:20 pm

Collins is to slow for the inside.

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Coldworld's picture

April 21, 2021 at 06:44 pm

I disagree with you there, although it’s hard to be unequivocal not knowing what Barry wants.

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JerseyAl's picture

April 21, 2021 at 10:05 am

I like that strategy better. Or use the later picks to add a late second or third round pick.

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cheesehead1's picture

April 21, 2021 at 10:42 am

Our D needs to make the next step into a championship caliber D. Tampa has just that, so I’m hoping coach Barry can get us closer. Tackling has been an issue for years so let’s hope Barry stresses that. I remember a SF game last season (can’t remember which game) and the one thing that stood out was their incredible tackling, even with all their injuries. I don’t think I saw a missed tackle. It was like night and day compared to our D. Go Pack and hope Gute hits a few home runs in the draft.

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Swisch's picture

April 21, 2021 at 10:27 am

If fans are upset about the first three picks of last year's draft for not going to the defense or wide receiver, then I would think they would want to trade up in the first round this year -- and not down -- to get a future star for the Packers at a position of need who would be able to contribute in a big way this upcoming season.
Before the last draft, we didn't know if the Packers were going to make it back to 13-3 and to the NFC Championship Game, or take a couple of steps back to 9-7 and hoping for a wild card. We didn't know that Aaron Rodgers was going to have an MVP season, and wondered if he was going to be truly happy and productive in the new offense under second-year head coach Matt LaFleur.
As a contrast, it seems this time around going into the draft we have much more reason to be hopeful for a run to the Super Bowl for the next season or two.
Now it seems to make sense to draft for quality and not quantity; to avoid developmental players in at least the first four rounds; to trade up as much as possible in the draft in exchange for current draft picks and future draft picks and even current players on our roster. No drafting projects or players who will be moved to different positions. Just immediate impact guys.
Instead of ten draft selections coming up, wouldn't we'd rather have four in the first two rounds? Wouldn't we be willing to trade one of our current players as part of a deal to move up into the top ten or twenty picks in the first round (thereby also freeing up cap space)?
Aren't we all in for this season and maybe the next? Don't we want four or five guys who can possibly start this season, or at least rotate in consistently as significant contributors? Plus, who will be starters for at least the rest of their rookie contracts?
In other words, in the last draft we really did have good reason to be cautious about going all in and therefore could be considered wise in planning at least somewhat for the future. Isn't this the season we really should be going all in?
I'm glad for other thoughts on this, especially for those who will give a thoughtful explanation. Various well-meaning opinions welcome as to clarifying the best strategy for the Packers in this highly important draft next week.
Super Bowl or bust?

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 11:43 am

You are correct...

The fans didn't know the Packers would get back to 13-3, they didn't know that Rodgers would be MVP.

What the fans did know....is that the team almost made it to the Super Bowl the season before.
So in turn..it would be fairly reasonable for fans to think we just needed some more help. A push from the draft

Then comes the draft....

Round 1)...QB who won't play for 2-4 years
Round 2)...RB we had no need for.
Round 3)...Tight end, we had enough of
Round 4)...Deemed not needed

Whether the fans knew the team would be 13-3 again, or Rodgers winning a MVP.
Is irrelevant to the expectations of the 2020 draft.

Gutes intentions of that draft were black and white.

There was no gray area.

Maybe....Super Bowl or Bust.
Should have been the mantra a year ago.
*********************
As fans...how does this (look) work?

The team doesn't think a SB push is needed in the 2020 draft.

But in the 2021 draft, we should draft for talent to get to a Super Bowl?

I mean.....did the team take a year off in it's Super Bowl quest?

Or is it important only because Rodgers won an MVP in 2020?

This team needs Leadership...at the top.

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PeteK's picture

April 21, 2021 at 12:20 pm

It's all an assumption that a WR would have been enough. I wanted Reagor, but he had an injury filled season. Maybe the players drafted last year will help us get there this year if they develop further. "Oh , we won't give in, we'll keep living in the past".

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 12:50 pm

Sigh......

It's not about a just a receiver, or some player you wanted last year who was injured a lot. Which effects the Packers...not at all.

It's about/......

Nevermind Pete....you won't understand, i'm fairly certain.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 12:59 pm

To the rest, who have reasonable thought process....

Some fans try to defend Gute's 2020 draft.....

Citing the fact that the Packers were more than 1 or 2 players away from a Super Bowl, so the 2020 draft didn't matter.

Now...here we are before the 2021 draft.....

Where....we have MORE needs than last year.

BUT this year.....those same fans proclaim Gute will be drafting for the talent to get to a Super Bowl.

What's wrong with that picture?

You can't have it both ways.

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PF4L's picture

April 21, 2021 at 02:25 pm

There's 3 of you?

kiddinggggggggg :)
humor...get it?

Smile, you grouchy ......

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PeteK's picture

April 21, 2021 at 03:29 pm

BBBBBB cheeseboiger

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jannes bjornson's picture

April 22, 2021 at 12:56 am

We thought Reagor would be the guy to be there for the Pack, but Roseman screwed up Pederson's preference for Jefferson and then doubled down with Hurts in the second. Instant karma for the v-queens and Lynch moves on Aiyuk, a guy Gutedkunst had scoped out for a couple of years. Love was then the best value.

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Swisch's picture

April 21, 2021 at 02:05 pm

When the Packers went from 6-9-1 to 13-3, there was a real question as to which record was more likely for the following season -- especially after the Packers were annihilated by the 49ers in the playoffs.
I wasn't so sure that 10-6 wouldn't be a good record for last season (if that's the right grammar).
Rather than saying we should've beaten the Bucs in our return to the NFC Championship Game, perhaps we should be amazed at even getting to that game, and how well we did against the team that crushed the Chiefs in the Super Bowl.
What the Packers did last season in repeating success is more like what we thought would be the case with the 49ers, who instead fell precipitously. The NFL is fickle from year to year.
Anyway, the key is what do we do to prepare for this year.
It seems the best way of referring to history is to apply it to what we could do today in anticipation of this huge draft in about a week.

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porupack's picture

April 21, 2021 at 01:43 pm

Great post, Swisch. Exactly my thoughts. Last year, was one thing but this year, clearly the time to go "all-in". I posted on another article; expend a draft capital to get 2 strong contributers at 2 out of these 3 positions: ILB, CB or DT. I would argue (and I read all the posters say ILB isn't the premier position for first round), that going aggressive, and getting a first round grade ILB (with coverage role) would plug the "hole in the dam", and allow the rest of the D to stop compensating for the glaring weakness....and the Whole Damn can finally hold on 3rd down. But moving up on a CB is also justifiable, as there is a lot of leakage there too. Ideally, moving up in both rounds to convert these two leaks into positions of strength will do more than having 10 developmental players. ILB and CB. I could also endorse an alternative retooling strategy; go aggressive in round I on WR and follow that with OL in second....and put all the betting chips on Offense. I'd bet on a defensive retooling though, because because chances are pretty good to get a specific shifty slot receiver and in rounds 3-5 anyway, and GB finds good OL in the mid rounds, ahem; Bakh, Lindsley, Trettor if you know what I'm getting at.

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Guam's picture

April 21, 2021 at 10:44 am

A couple of concerns Swisch: (1) about half of the first round draft choices normally wind up being busts, so moving up and losing multiple picks to do so is a big risk in the best of years and (2) this year's draft has more uncertainty about player evaluation than any draft in recent memory due to the short college season, COVID opt outs, minimal in-person contact and no combine. Many including myself have opined that this might be a better year to move back and have more draft picks in rounds 2-4 than move up in round one.

I think Gute would have to be really sure he was getting a big difference maker to move up this year and I am just not hearing about a big difference maker anywhere in the early draft choices at the Packers two positions of greatest need - CB and DL.

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Swisch's picture

April 21, 2021 at 11:12 am

Thumbs up from me, Guam. I'm glad to hear from other good fans, because I'm not really sure about how to approach this draft.
I'm sincerely trying to process what seems like a lot of criticism of last year's draft with the apparent lack of urgency about this year's draft -- and it's hard for me to keep track of all the various considerations and then put them in perspective.
To be purposely simplistic for the sake of dramatic effect, some fans seem to think if we didn't draft Jordan Love last season, we would have beaten the Bucs in the championship game and gone to the Super Bowl.
Wherever one comes down on that question and related ones, the point is what to do about this upcoming draft.
For example, you raise a good point about the risks of first-rounders in general and the added uncertainties due to COVID. One might say, however, that to win a Super Bowl next season it's a good idea, even necessary, to take risks. Enough of the safe selections in this draft but rather let's make bold moves! Super Bowl or bust!!!?
I'm hoping vigorous discussion could be helpful to all of us as fans in our thinking about the draft next week. We don't have to be right or wrong, just give our honest thoughts.

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greengold's picture

April 21, 2021 at 06:17 pm

YESSSSS!!!!! Right on, Guam.

The Packers are loaded at some positions, others... wow! They need help. Anyone questioning this, simply look at last year’s Final 53. It’ an eye opener.

I’ve found 10 players after some big deep dive reviews that I would LOVE to see Gutekunst take. Easily, 6 or more of whom I suspect could contribute significantly. There’s talent to be had, great talent, through pick 256. Keeping my favs on the QT to not drive hype up needlessly.

Guessing GB will add 3 starters if BG doesn’t trade opportunities away. Possibly more. Hoping for the best.

Can’t wait to see what they do.

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Swisch's picture

April 21, 2021 at 09:51 pm

It may be fun to have an opportunity here at CHTV sometime before the draft next week for fans to put forth a list of their Top Ten favorites in this draft, and perhaps what round would be appropriate.
It could even be a contest with some sort of prize, although I don't know how to measure the results as the draft takes some three seasons to evaluate.
Perhaps the winner would be who chooses the most players actually selected by the Packers.
Each draft season, we could evaluate these lists from fans in retrospect -- celebrating the apparent winners, and good-naturedly ribbing the apparent losers.
I wouldn't be participating due to lack of knowledge of college players outside of the Badgers, and even that is rather thin.
This may or may not be a good idea, but I thought I'd put it out there. That way the fans who put in the effort to analyze the draft would have a chance for some recognition, and the rest of us could enjoy the competition for Best Armchair GM.

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JerseyAl's picture

April 21, 2021 at 04:54 pm

So, I'm throwing out PF4L for being an ass (same guy who's been here before and been booted). Any objections?

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greengold's picture

April 21, 2021 at 05:57 pm

He’s a tool. Thanks, Al. Deep cleansing breath... Much better.

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Swisch's picture

April 21, 2021 at 06:16 pm

I agree that PF4L has been an ass at times as far as my experience here at CHTV.
I would vote for a week suspension, and then probation based on refraining from personal attacks.
He could be back for the draft with a fresh start and no hard feelings if he tones it down.
I don't know the whole story with PF4L, but that's my personal take on the situation. All the best to him, regardless.

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flackcatcher's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:23 pm

No, he attacked you for no reason at all. Then he went after Jersey Al. Going after CHTV's webmaster, he was lucky he wasn't banned right then and there. Al has given him more than enough chances before this. If Coldworld is right, and I believe he is. Then he will show up again with his 'new' persona for the fifth time after some time off. He has blown though his chances. Damn shame.

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Coldworld's picture

April 21, 2021 at 06:55 pm

Dash gets a little odder each time. Figured he’d quote his prior wisdom sometime.

It’s not worth suspending him (grist to his mill) and he will be back anyway. Be kind of nice to get through the immediate draft period. He normally establishes his new persona slowly.

He’s no longer a 70s advertising exec. Now we’ve done youthful “naivety.” What will it be next time ...

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jannes bjornson's picture

April 22, 2021 at 01:02 am

Who/what was his handle prior to Dash? That particular character was amusing.

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Oppy's picture

April 22, 2021 at 01:43 am

Thompson Twins was one of the more recent prior handles, if PF4L is truly Dash Riprock. (I'm assuming Al is going by IP address, so he must be one in the same.)

I'm actually surprised, I didn't pick up on mannerisms with PF4L that alerted me.

I have a long history with the poster who was known as Dash/ThompsonTwins, going back to an old Yahoo Sports Packers forum back to roughly 2005, where he went by the handle "Jerclay" or "Gerclay", and he was running ten or more alter-ego accounts, often staging chaotic discussions between his multiple accounts and completely overtaking threads.

Professional troll.

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PeteK's picture

April 21, 2021 at 07:49 pm

I don't mind some of the hysterics , but it's difficult to have a sound debate because his rebuttals just go off on a different tangent.

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jannes bjornson's picture

April 22, 2021 at 01:02 am

He's a bit sensitive to criticism.

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flackcatcher's picture

April 21, 2021 at 08:02 pm

None here. Pretty sad. I will never understand why any commenter would go out of his way to insult others over football. And coming after you? CHTV is one of the most easy going blogs on the web. Made no sense at all.

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greengold's picture

April 21, 2021 at 09:26 pm

CHTV is the best. People like that only destroy. You can see them a mile away. Life is too short to put up with that garbage. Tweekers suck. He was a tweeker.

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Since'61's picture

April 21, 2021 at 10:28 pm

Jersey Al has always done what is best for the blog. First at Jersey Al's ALL GBP and here at CHTV. Between Al, the contributors and our core bloggers we have the best Packers blog on the internet. Good job again by jersey Al.
Thanks, Since '61

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PewAuKeeFan's picture

April 21, 2021 at 11:15 pm

He's a Packer Fan 4 Life after all, so maybe some slack? :)

I actually enjoy a bit of controversy, as long as the language does not get out of hand. Did he venture into the unmentionables area (I didn't read all his comments, he does have a lot).

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JerseyAl's picture

April 22, 2021 at 10:00 am

Nothing wrong with controversy unless you're constantly denigrating others' intelligence simply because they have a different opinion. He can go spam some other web site.

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jannes bjornson's picture

April 22, 2021 at 01:36 pm

He has his Safe Room on Total Packers.

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Ferrari-Driver's picture

April 25, 2021 at 09:44 pm

Cheesehead TV is my favorite sports forum and I appreciate the information I receive from the various writers here and the input from the Packer fans is excellent as well. If we were all able to temper our comments and ease up on personal attacks it would make the forum even better. We all have opinions/input and not everyone will agree with it; after all we are fans who work for a living and love football, but we are not General Managers. We all certainly should accept opposing opinions and information in a gentlemanly fashion. I do agree with "Since 61" comment about Jersey Al having the best interest of the forum at heart and I applaud Al for his work here as well.

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