Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - MADDENing WR rankings
The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.
By JerseyAl
I don't play Madden, but I do know that they assign "scores" and rank players at to their "value." I saw the post below and it seemed like a slight (not one receiver over 80) but I couldn't be sure. So I decided to check on the Madden rankings for all WRs and found that info here. Romeo Doubs is tied with six other receivers with a score of 79. There are 49 wide receivers ranked higher than Doubs or any of the Packers receivers. That does sound disrespectful, and as I said in the tweet, I hope that helps place some chips on our WR's shoulders.
I like it. Chips on shoulders developing nicely...
— Jersey Al - GBP (@JerseyAlGBP) July 30, 2024
Jordan Morgan - Every year as we prep for the draft guide, the IOL analyst (James Siebers) and I compare notes and have to make decisions on some guys as to whether we will list them at guard or tackle. Morgan was the subject of much discussion this past March. If we were to list him as a guard he likely would have been in our top-3. We decided to list him as a tackle, however, as we felt he would likely be drafted as a tackle first with guard as a nice insurance policy. I ended up listing Morgan as my seventh-ranked OT prospect in a class loaded with first-rounders. As it turned out, only one tackle I had ranked higher than Morgan (Tyler Guyton) was not taken before Morgan. For those who didn't get the guide (and why not?) here's what I wrote:
Positional Skills: Overall, Morgan is a good technician and a dependable pass protector, having allowed just three sacks and three quarterback hits in his last 24 games. He utilizes a choppy kick-slide to get into his pass sets to mirror rushers. While light on his feet, he may not have coordinated enough feet for the left tackle position. He sometimes oversets, inviting counter moves, but remains balanced when having to change directions. Morgan uses two-hand punches, not with independent hands, and can get his hands too wide, allowing rushers into his chest and giving up ground back into the quarterback. He’s just an average processor of stunts and games. As a run blocker, he’s not very powerful but executes zone blocks well on the move. Overall he maintains good pad level but sometimes can get too upright, losing his power base. He’s quick enough to get in position easily for reach, scoop, and combo blocks. He looks more like a guard than a tackle when run blocking.
Fit with the Packers:
On film, Morgan’s explosion and movement skills appear top-notch and were confirmed by his elite 1.70 10-yard. split in the 40-yard dash at the combine. The former team captain (“Captain Morgan”) needs to hit the weight room to be able to hold up better against power. Overall, he has a lot of what the Packers look for—experience, movement ability, and multi-position versatility. Factor in an arm length below their threshold for tackles and Morgan is your classic Packers left tackle-to-guard convert who can play tackle if needed.
Obviously, it doesn't surprise me that Morgan is getting a long look at guard, with LaFleur stating he's getting more comfortable at that position every day. I do believe that with a year or two of development, he could still make the move to tackle, but of the Packers don't have a need there, then just let him stay inside.
"The more corners that you have, the better off you are" - Matt LaFleur. Gutey agrees apparently as the Packers signed two cornerbacks yesterday. Former Troy CB Don Callis (attended Packers rookie camp as a tryout player) and CJ Davis, who was signed by the Titans last year after trying out in their rookie camp.
As the World Turn(ers) - the third wheel kicker in camp, James Turner was released and brought back (as I had predicted) was long snapper Peter Bowden who I had been rooting for to win a job this year. (As if I really know anything about his snapping ability).
Bisacciia talking about the new kickoff rules in his presser opened my eyes a bit as to how complicated this is. "If the ball doesn't get to the 20 it goes to the 40. If the ball hits the ground inside the 20 and goes in the end zone, it goes to the 20. If you catch it in the end zone and take a knee, it goes to the 30." Got that?
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
__________________________
"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of various hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He's a lifetime Packers fan living in the land of the Giants (and Jets). Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
__________________________
Comments (56)
JerseyAl
July 31, 2024 at 06:09 am
Hello All - things are looking better at the moment, but I'm not ready to declare all the issues as fixed. We'll see how the day goes. Again, THANK YOU for your patience.
gkarl
July 31, 2024 at 06:23 am
Are you talking about the website or the GBP :)
RCPackerFan
July 31, 2024 at 10:00 am
I'd say not fixed, but hopefully better. It kept logging me out due to inactivity even when i was typing.
atundraman
July 31, 2024 at 11:03 am
Logged me out as well.
What is the big advantage to the website in making us constantly log back in?
Rebelgb
July 31, 2024 at 11:04 am
Woot!! Site has been much more responsive and loading times are great today! Hope this stays the course.
Thank you for your attention to the matter!
ImaPayne2
July 31, 2024 at 01:41 pm
Ya your right about the kick off rules. Do you know is there an exam at the end? Dam better have guys who can kick it past the 20 which shouldn't be that hard.
LLCHESTY
July 31, 2024 at 04:02 pm
It's still not allowing links to tweets or articles.
Rory P Scrotem
July 31, 2024 at 06:26 am
This kick-off craziness is way too bizarre for my liking...and understanding! I really, really hope it does not find it's way into college and high school football. Call me old school but, every kick-off now is going to be a 2 minute explanation by announcers who will not understand it anymore than you or me! The competition committee needs to immediately reevaluate this stupid inclusion.
T7Steve
July 31, 2024 at 07:13 am
You're exactly right!
The NFL doesn't need gimmicks. Leave those to the goof ball leagues. If they're so worried about injuries, put the ball on the 25 and call it good. I prefer the excitement of the possible traditional kickoff return.
jont
July 31, 2024 at 01:54 pm
👍
Cheezehead72
July 31, 2024 at 07:18 am
I am keeping an open mind on the new kickoff rules until after the season. Right now I like the idea they are trying to get more returns. I seldom watch kickoffs anymore because very few are returned. Kickoffs in the NFL have been more boring than watching a HR in baseball.
mnbadger
July 31, 2024 at 09:39 am
I can't disagree with you Rory P but I will wait thru the season before making any declarations.
As stated by others, it may bring excitement and strategy back to one of the least interesting plays in professional sports.
GPG
dobber
July 31, 2024 at 09:40 pm
"every kick-off now is going to be a 2 minute explanation by announcers who will not understand it anymore than you or me! "
Kinda like watching cricket.
GregC
July 31, 2024 at 07:08 am
Good analysis of Morgan in the draft guide! He was even picked in the mock draft, although I'm going to quibble here and note that he was picked as a tackle to fill the "massive hole" due to the departure of David Bakhtiari. I disagreed that there was a massive hole, as Rasheed Walker was a very good starting left tackle by the end of the season. The Packers kept their options open by drafting a versatile player.
They signed two corners, but they cut one (Zyon Gilbert) and another one (Robert Rochelle) is injured, so that's kind of a wash.
Bisaccia's comments only reinforce what I've already been thinking, which is that teams will mostly just try to kick the ball into the end zone for a touchback, so the other team will start at the 30-yard-line. Line drive kicks will be too risky because if the ball lands short of the 20-yard-line it will be placed on the 40. Using a non-kicker to kick off will be too risky for that same reason.
Bisaccia also said that he thinks the rules will be revised during the season due to unintended consequences. The league did not really think this through as much as they should have.
T7Steve
July 31, 2024 at 07:19 am
I hope that Morgan develops into an exceptional all-around O-lineman. That would give us Jenkins, Tom and Morgan that can go anywhere in emergencies decided by where the best backup plays his best. Also, more options when it comes to future contract negotiations.
Guam
July 31, 2024 at 07:27 am
I almost like that the Packer WR's are undervalued. They may catch the Eagles napping on them in the opener. Other Packer opponents will likely be wide awake after Love and the WR group scorch the Eagles secondary.
For a team that lost Bakhtiari, Nijman and Runyon in the offseason, a versatile first round draft choice sounds like the ideal pickup. They had needs at both tackle and guard and Morgan likely can play both. Gute did his homework.
Thanks Al for getting the site back on track. My speeds have been back to normal and that is much appreciated.
murf7777
July 31, 2024 at 08:53 am
The WR’s are rated accordingly because Love is willing to spread the ball around to all of them. I personally like that and hopefully it continues. It makes it pretty difficult to determine which one to defend with double team or shading safety. In addition, if none of them become One of the top in the NFL then we won’t have the big dilemma of paying them TOP dollars. I’m not a fan of paying top dollars to WR’s and felt moving on from Adams was a good move. Let’s have 4 -5 really good WR’s vs 1 or 2 great ones who take up way way too much salary cap.
Rebelgb
July 31, 2024 at 11:00 am
I couldnt agree more! Well said. We have enough big contracts to worry about. Let the receivers all be really really good team players.
Cheezehead72
July 31, 2024 at 07:27 am
I look at and read rankings that analyst put out there and almost all of the time I laugh at them. Most of the time they are just opinions with some stats. The ranking rely on how the analyst uses the stats if they do. Yes they are fun to read but I will leave my analysis to what I see on the field.
A couple of items that these rankings do not take in consideration is how often a WR is double or triple teamed to allow another WR to get open or how effective their blocking is. I like to consider the whole package.
Bitternotsour
July 31, 2024 at 10:03 am
i shake my head and wonder why anyone takes offense to rankings. oh noes, the disresptect! fetch my smelling salts and bring the fainting couch.
Cheezehead72
July 31, 2024 at 07:30 am
Thought I would pose this question here. So a center generally is the most intelligent OL and the position requires the player to make assignments to the OL. Why are guards payed significantly more than a center. I know guards need to be athletic because they pull but that goes for centers too. I hope you knowledgeable people can enlighten me.
GregC
July 31, 2024 at 07:41 am
I'm not knowledegable, but I'm guessing that the thinking skills that a center needs are not high level. The other offensive linemen need to be able to think too. I doubt there are many players who are smart enough to play guard but not smart enough to play center. And physically, centers don't need to be as high level because they do not play in space very much. They almost always have another lineman on either side of them, very close. So the footwork probably doesn't need to be quite as good as it has to be for a guard. That's just my best guess at an explanation.
LambeauPlain
July 31, 2024 at 08:08 am
The WR quartet of Doubs, Watson, Reed and Wicks has real potential to be the best quartet since Jordy, Jennings. Driver and Jones.
I know Watson is the deep DB stretcher, but he is also very adept at going up and taking balls in contested catches.
But no WR on the Packer is more of a pit bull taking the ball than Doubs. Outstanding coordination and vise-like hands. And his route running is as sublime as Greg Jennings. My personal belief is the best chemistry Love has on the team is with Doubs. His concentration on the ball in flight seems like radar and Love sees it too.
I am expecting a huge year from Romeo.
Bitternotsour
July 31, 2024 at 10:09 am
It wasn't just Jennings route running that was sublime, he had the most disciplined late hands that I've ever seen with a receiver. He never gave away that the ball was coming, and though he was reviled for saying it, he helped make Rodgers great. (also, he was 100% right about Rodger's narcissism, we just weren't ready to hear it)
WestCoastPackerBacker
July 31, 2024 at 10:34 am
If Jennings "helped" make Rodgers great, then so did Driver, Jordy, James Jones, Cobb and Adams. I mean Rodgers even made guys like Tonyan and Lazard look like budding stars. In terms of Jennings' feelings towards Rodgers, they did fine until Jennings seemed to get mad that Rodgers didn't go to bat for Jennings with the front office and tell them to offer him a bigger contract. Well, you can see why that would be an issue; then would everyone wanting a new deal want #12 to advocate for them? And then Jennings didn't take GB's offer, thinking he was worth more on the open market only to have the Vikings offer him less than GB did. And he sure didn't make any noise in MN. So I'm not thinking Jennings "helped make Rodgers great" any more than any other disciplined and talented WR, RB or TE did.
Since'61
July 31, 2024 at 08:10 am
I have not liked the new kickoff rules since they were announced earlier this year. They are unnecessary confusing rule changes. They may add some excitement to kickoffs but I think that the reality will be teams trying to kick into the end zone to create more touchbacks.
I don't know how Madden comes up with their ratings so I don't pay attention to them. Think that the Packers WR corp is a top 5 unit in the league at the least.
As for Morgan the Packers should play him where has is the best fit for the OL. If that turns out to be at Guard that works for me.
Good job again AL. The site has been better as of yesterday and today. Thanks, Since '61
T7Steve
July 31, 2024 at 08:19 am
The best thing about our WRs is the depth. What other team can plug in their 10th receiver off the practice squad because of injuries, and not miss a step.
PeteK
July 31, 2024 at 11:06 am
I think teams will try to kick it inside 20 and not give up the extra 10 with an end zone kick.
dobber
July 31, 2024 at 09:46 pm
I think it will have a lot to do with how many long runbacks there are. If teams start breaking an inordinately high number of big returns, I think they'll be willing to give up the field position on TBs.
Pizzadoc
July 31, 2024 at 06:38 pm
I pretty much agree with everything Since61 says. So, as usual, well said.
RCPackerFan
July 31, 2024 at 08:36 am
Its been a minute since I have posted on here.
"That does sound disrespectful, and as I said in the tweet, I hope that helps place some chips on our WR's shoulders."
If they needed more motivation, I think they got it. I would not take any other teams WR corps over ours from top to bottom.
Jordan Morgan -
I had seen a number of people that said they believed Morgan would be a future OG. I have seen a number of people talking after they drafted Morgan that he maybe a fit at RG his rookie year and then look to move outside after that. I saw a lot of comparisons to Matthew Bergeron. If I remember right Jim Nagy thought Morgan would follow the same path. Walker seems to have entrenched himself at LT. Tom is at RT. It seems that Morgan's only opportunity to start right away will be at RG.
Fit with the Packers:
On film, Morgan’s explosion and movement skills appear top-notch and were confirmed by his elite 1.70 10-yard. split in the 40-yard dash at the combine. The former team captain (“Captain Morgan”) needs to hit the weight room to be able to hold up better against power. Overall, he has a lot of what the Packers look for—experience, movement ability, and multi-position versatility. Factor in an arm length below their threshold for tackles and Morgan is your classic Packers left tackle-to-guard convert who can play tackle if needed.
Obviously, it doesn't surprise me that Morgan is getting a long look at guard, with LaFleur stating he's getting more comfortable at that position every day. I do believe that with a year or two of development, he could still make the move to tackle, but of the Packers don't have a need there, then just let him stay inside.
"As the World Turn(ers) - the third wheel kicker in camp, James Turner was released and brought back (as I had predicted) was long snapper Peter Bowden who I had been rooting for to win a job this year. (As if I really know anything about his snapping ability). "
I am happy to see Bowden is back. People wanted to criticize Carlson for all the bad kicks. Which is fair. But the snapping led to a lot of bad kicks.
"Bisacciia talking about the new kickoff rules in his presser opened my eyes a bit as to how complicated this is. "If the ball doesn't get to the 20 it goes to the 40. If the ball hits the ground inside the 20 and goes in the end zone, it goes to the 20. If you catch it in the end zone and take a knee, it goes to the 30." Got that?"
I'm fine with changing the kicking rules and whatnot. But i would have rather they tried out the changes in the preseason first before committing to it for the year. I feel like its a massive change and there will be a lot ironing out that will need to happen. I see many tweaks coming.
murf7777
July 31, 2024 at 09:02 am
I think everyone has some team bias, but to think our WR’s group top to bottom is the best is a stretch IMO. At a very quick thought, I’d take SF, Philly, Chicago, Miami and Rams. I know you said top to bottom, but there are many WR’s on those teams that also have great potential that are just unknown to us. That said, when talking about skill vs amount of salary cap spent or value, I’d take the Packers over the rest.
RCPackerFan
July 31, 2024 at 09:58 am
Sorry Murf. I have tried responding 3 times now. I have had great arguments type up. I'm not typing it up a 4th time.
Basically my point was the WR group as a whole. WR 1-6, not just WR 1-3. If we just take the top 3 it obviously would change. But when we factor in WR's 4-6, I'd take GB's as a whole.
murf7777
July 31, 2024 at 10:17 am
I think that you would have a good argument amongst the rest of the team fan bases. And, I’d find it hard to believe another team has it better. That said, I don’t think any of us know enough about every teams #4-6 WR groups to make that determination.
Bitternotsour
July 31, 2024 at 09:56 am
Sounds as though the most valuable kick-off will be high with big hang time landing between the end zone and the 10. Too bad you can't punt it.
Packer_Fan
July 31, 2024 at 09:58 am
Until the Packers WR'S torch the league and I predict they will this year, they won't get the respect they should. Watch, this will be a great offense this year.
Looks like Morgan will beat out Rhyan for the right guard position. That's ok. We need eight capable OL and Dillard is not one of them.
Same thing for cornerbacks. With Ballentine and Valentine playing much of the year last year, you need capable back ups.
And I am becoming amazed of how Gute is successful at draft picks. He has becoming quite good at selecting good to great players. Took him a few years, but it bodes well for the future
Bitternotsour
July 31, 2024 at 10:17 am
A chip on the shoulder is a weak motivation when your livelihood is dependent on your playing well. Want a motivator? How about a paycheck. Better yet, how about a second contract, and being vested into the NFL pension plan. If a pro athlete is motivated by his Madden rank, good god, I just don't know what to think.
Rebelgb
July 31, 2024 at 11:03 am
Agreed. It is fun to talk about as fans though (even if we know better..)
Leatherhead
July 31, 2024 at 12:26 pm
On Morgan: The Packers used the #25 overall pick on a guy who isn't good enough to beat out the starter and so will be playing a new position. They apparently knew he wasn't better than Walker but selected him anyway, knowing they'd have to move him , apparently to RG. IF he is successful there, then we can keep former Day 2 pick Sean Rhyan on the bench for another year.
To me, it doesn't look like you're getting a lot of ROI on either of those draft choices. I'm the guy who repeatedly says "trust the professionals who work with the guy and know the plan", so I'm going to have to follow my own advice. Because I don't understand this plan, and I can't believe we burnt #25 on a guy to compete at RG,
Guam
July 31, 2024 at 04:59 pm
Regardless of position Morgan may have been the best player still available on their board when pick #25 rolled around. And the Packers did need reinforcements on their O-line after losing Bakhtiari, Nijman and Runyon. Picking BPA against a known need is never a bad plan.
Don't be so hard on yourself if Morgan winds up a right guard this year - it will help the Packer O-line this year and things will likely change again next year.
Bitternotsour
July 31, 2024 at 06:20 pm
That best player available is a speed bump in Leatherhead's reasoning. I don't think it's faulty to assume that the #25 player, the first draft choice is meant to play, but you can't get too far ahead of yourself and assume infallibility in terms of their position. I'd say it speaks well to the team that they are evaluating the talent and putting the top 5 guys out there, regardless of draft order or preconception.
Does anyone really care if there's a 7th round draft pick starting at left tackle if the line performs well and the quarterback is protected? I mean WTF.
Swisch
July 31, 2024 at 06:21 pm
If we get a star at guard with our pick at #25 it would seem to be a very good thing.
Regardless, it seems good to at least question the professionals from time to time -- whether they are running the Packers, fixing our cars, operating on our hearts, or teaching our children.
These days, I'm not all that trustful of the esteemed Secret Service, organizers of ceremonies for the Olympics, or pharmaceutical companies offering shots.
Bitternotsour
July 31, 2024 at 06:41 pm
First off, certain things are making more sense to me now.
Also, I totally know what you mean, you simply can't assume that virologists and research scientists have more knowledge than say guys who do their own research on the internets.
Also, what the hell was wrong with the Olympics opening ceremonies. I thought they were incredible, amazing actually - those boats floating down the Seine were brilliant.
Swisch
July 31, 2024 at 09:19 pm
Now that's an inspiring and comforting vision of democracy: Docile acceptance by we the people.
No going to the trouble to find experts who might say something contrary to the experts selectively selected by our benevolent leaders.
As said Homer Simpson with a comet about to crush Springfield: "The whole reason we have elected officials is so we don't have to think all the time."
Let the government take care of everything.
Bitternotsour
August 01, 2024 at 06:58 am
As diseases like measles and polio return that were thought extinguished you can feel ever so secure that you found your own "experts". I grew up with people who had polio. The measles vaccine happened in my youth, it was a terror for families prior to that. Vaccine skepticism will kill people, but say, I'm sure deep down somewhere you have "natural immunity"
I still have no idea what you're talking about regarding the Olympics.
Pizzadoc
August 01, 2024 at 02:39 pm
I generally enjoy your analysis, but no one here likes your political allusions or commentary, etc. if you want to be clever with snide comments, please don’t.
Swisch
July 31, 2024 at 03:24 pm
Ranking players too much on statistics is indeed maddening.
stockholder
July 31, 2024 at 03:30 pm
On Morgan: Nobody is doubting your Draft analysis.
I'm only doubting Gute for selecting him over DeJean.
Want to bet DeJean becomes a All-pro before Morgan?
His drafts resemble percentages now.
The real problem isn't finding a starter.
The real problem is giving your opponent the missing pieces.
LLCHESTY
July 31, 2024 at 04:02 pm
Haven't heard much about Wyatt this camp but LaFleur gave him a plug this morning. Morgan won 2 of 3 reps against him today.
Site still won't allow links.
Ferrari-Driver
July 31, 2024 at 04:06 pm
"Bisacciia talking about the new kickoff rules in his presser opened my eyes a bit as to how complicated this is. "If the ball doesn't get to the 20 it goes to the 40. If the ball hits the ground inside the 20 and goes in the end zone, it goes to the 20. If you catch it in the end zone and take a knee, it goes to the 30." Got that?"
What happens if the ball is kicked completely out of the end zone?
Swisch
July 31, 2024 at 05:50 pm
Then the kicking team gets it at midfield, unless a member of the receiving team does a cartwheel in the end zone before the ball lands out of the end zone, which gives the receiving team the ball at its own 17-yard-line.
Bitternotsour
July 31, 2024 at 06:52 pm
Cartwheel specialists are a thing now. What ever happened to three yards and a cloud of dust?
Swisch
July 31, 2024 at 09:28 pm
It's engraved on the headstone of Woody Hayes.
Leatherhead
August 01, 2024 at 12:54 pm
I'd go ahead and let them start at the 30. If we went through an entire season and never let the opponent return a kick past the 30, I'd call that a good year.
Bitternotsour
August 01, 2024 at 02:04 pm
It's only automatic to the 30 if it makes it to the end zone and they don't return it. But if given the opportunity I'd opt to hand them the ball at the 30 every time.
Although as you often point out, if they return it there are more bad things that can happen to the return team than to the kickoff team.
mrtundra
August 02, 2024 at 07:04 am
Not having a single WR, ranked above 79, could be due to the non-Packer fan "experts" saying we need a #1 WR. I look at our WR/TE groups and wish other teams lots of luck, trying to cover us, this season. Underestimating one's opponent is a key ingredient for disaster. GO PACK, GO!!!