Coming off the Bye, Offensive Line should find a Resurgence from a Reshuffle
A new "Big 5" could be what the offense needs to rebound against Denver.
By JosephR
The Packers have crawled to their bye week with a less-than-expected 2-3 record. There are still 12 games to go, and just going 7-5 in those games could have the Packers looking at a playoff berth in an NFC that outside of two teams is proverbially wide open. This is a young team, and Packers fans by now should have little to no expectations for this 2023 team, with mountains of hope for 2024. It's anyone's guess what adjustments Matt LaFleur and Co. will make to this team before their upcoming road trip to Denver(which should have the more than casual fan a little concerned), but if there's one thing that should definitely be looked at, it's the current rotation of the offensive line.
We know our wide receiver & tight end Corps are young, and Jordan Love is still trying to find his way as a Quarterback, but in the aftermath of the loss of David Bakhtiari, the Packers have yet to maximize the remaining talent on the offensive line.
Here's a look at the Packers' OL groups so far this season(PFF Grades in parenthesis):
| Week | LT | LG | C | RG | RT |
| 1 - Bears | Bakhtiari (78.3) | Jenkins (61.4) | Myers (59.1) | Runyan (54.3) | Tom (75.6) |
| 2 - Falcons | Walker (61.3) | Newman* (46.1) | Myers (59.1) | Runyan (54.3) | Tom (75.6) |
| 3 - Saints | Walker (61.3) | Newman (46.1) | Myers (59.1) | Runyan (54.3) | Tom (75.6) |
| 4 - Lions | Walker (61.3) | Newman (46.1) | Myers (59.1) | Runyan (54.3) | Tom (75.6) |
| 5 - Raiders | Walker (61.3) | Jenkins (61.4) | Myers (59.1) | Runyan (54.3) | Tom (75.6) |
* Jenkins went out Week 2 with an MCL injury
Removing Bakhtiari's one-time appearance, Zach Tom is head and shoulders above the rest. In this group, but what pains me is why through 3 games, the team's second-best offensive lineman isn't on that table. Who? I'm speaking of Yosh Nijman. Nijman has sported a serviceable grade of 65.0 per PFF, yet for some reason, the abominable Royce Newman has been given WAY too many opportunities. There are rumors of Yosh being in LaFleur's doghouse for some undisclosed reason, but at what cost as a head coach do you continue to not only play but start someone who's virtually unplayable? Furthermore, is Sean Rhyan, who we've yet to see in any significant action also in the doghouse? I don't believe he could be that much worse than Newman, and I'd rather see Rhyan take his lumps in a game then to hope that Newman shows any signs of improvement.
The rumor is that Tom's best position truly is center, and Jenkins should remain at left guard. If LaFleur were to pull Myers for Tom and insert Nijman at right tackle, that could be the combination that can allow the run game to sustain some significant success. Or, if we are looking at this from a pure ratings view (which is less than ideal), insert Nijman at right tackle, and allow Runyan to come off the bench while Tom pushes inside(he played 110 snaps between both guard positions last year).
Jordan Love will continue to take his lumps in his first year as a starter, the receivers and tight ends will mostly still be trying to adjust to the pro game along the way. But while the offensive line group does also have some youth to it they aren't totally "noobs" either. If the coaching staff can field a better combination than what we've seen, and maximize that potential, it could go a long way to the offense finding itself on the field down the stretch.
#GPG
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__________________________
Joseph has been an avid fan of the Green Bay Packers since 1997, citing an affinity for dairy products during his childhood and his favorite color, green. Born in Jacksonville, FL, Joseph currently is an Active Duty servicemember in the U.S. Armed Forces. Joseph considers himself a lifelong fan of the game of football, competing since his youth well into adulthood. When it comes to the Pack, Joseph is particularly impassioned about the NFL Draft and collegiate scouting process, and will contribute regularly on CHTV.com leading to that year's upcoming Draft. You can follow him on Twitter at @joeyreyallday.
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Comments (48)
MooPack
October 20, 2023 at 03:46 pm
Nijman-Jenkins-Tom-Runyan-Walker
Coldworld
October 20, 2023 at 03:59 pm
Until Walker gets stronger, I’d go with Jones at RT and see.
MooPack
October 20, 2023 at 04:01 pm
You may be right. At this point where is the harm to try.
dobber
October 21, 2023 at 08:36 am
Strength was never the issue with Walker...at least, coming out, his scouting said his game was mostly in his anchor and strength. With a year and a half in an NFL training program, I don't know that he's going to get much stronger.
The issue on Walker was that he was sloppy and inconsistent...or, maybe, consistently sloppy. When you watch him now, it's still true. I think you're right-on, though, in that there's only so long that they can roll with him before he needs to yield the left side to Nijman or Tom, and we've certainly hit that point. Maybe he'll be better on the right side, but if he's getting beat because his technique is poor that's not likely to improve much by switching sides...Jones is huge with a huge wingspan but I thought he looked lumber-some and slow-footed in preseason. Still, he would take a long time for pass-rushers to get around.
Coldworld
October 21, 2023 at 09:07 am
Walker had been easily moved around. Strength that worked in college may not be adequate in the pros. In some cases it is technique probably, but it seems more than that. Regardless, at times he looks good and at times hopelessly lost. At this point he’s not NFL ready. It’s time to find out is Jones is at RT and time to see if Nijman really is half as capable as he was a year ago.
People want Barry gone. I tend to think he should be, but zButkus/Stenovich needs to be broken up first. It’s way past time to have faith in that duo.
KKB
October 20, 2023 at 04:39 pm
Agreed. Yosh was always better at LT, and
IMO Walker would fit better at RT.
Cut Newman, move Tom to C. That gives JRJ some better neighbors - to show he is a keeper too.
splitpea1
October 20, 2023 at 03:48 pm
Nijman: "Right now, he's a backup tackle for us....football is a very competitive sport and some guys rise to that competition and some guys don't...." That's how our OC summed up the situation. I would like to hear some specifics because I don't really buy it.
Tom: Anything to help the IOL is worth a shot, but the Packers are hellbent on wringing everything they can get out of Myers, or just being plain stubborn. Maybe they think he'll turn into Bulldog Turner with more playing time, who knows?
Rhyan: What's the point of him even being on the team with one bleeping non-offensive snap in his career? Either play him at some point or give the roster spot to someone else. Developing a guard shouldn't take as long as QB, should it?
This coaching staff isn't good at making adjustments on or off the field, so while much of the article is sound in logic, seeing any of it come to fruition is an entirely different matter.
Coldworld
October 20, 2023 at 04:04 pm
Stenovich preferred a one legged RT, Turner, to Nijman and adding a journeyman who is now back up C/G with the Bears and possibly cost us a Championship. Since then it’s been one baffling decision after another.
Time to stop this and shuffle the coaches really.
Guam
October 21, 2023 at 08:25 am
Excellent summary CW and precisely the reason why I don't believe there will be any changes in the O-line coming out of the bye. This coaching staff is incapable of making the appropriate decisions.
PeteK
October 21, 2023 at 08:59 am
I guess all of you are at practice/film review and see who earns a spot or not, or the ridiculous idea that they purposely start the inferior player. Enough of this coach blaming and after the fact BS.
Coldworld
October 21, 2023 at 09:13 am
So you believe that anyone who is an NFL coach must be competent by virtue of his position and the anointing of Newman, Hanson the refusal to play Nijman, the switcheroo …. I could go on …. all support the competence of Butkus?
Sorry, just not buying either premise.
PeteK
October 22, 2023 at 09:31 am
I didn't say that, but am stating that we as fans are not in position to make those calls as we don't have all the info.
jannesbjornson
October 20, 2023 at 04:12 pm
With Bhaktiari gone for the count, this is Gutedkunst's O line. Best deal would be to make a significant move for a LT via trade. Such boldness is Unlikely to occur as Gutey defends his picks and strategy for Protecting His Quarterback may get the guy sent out on a Medevac. Might as well utilize some of the future draft capital on a known quantity, as he did with the 2019 buying spree. Whiffing on Humphrey should have told the story of the personnel dept.
dobber
October 21, 2023 at 08:43 am
I don't think there are any deals to make for OL at this point. I've said here before that proven players are way more valuable than draft picks but OL are gold, and you're going to overpay at the deadline for those guys. Anyone with any promise is going to be bid up beyond their draft compensation.
I agree: they've got to find a way to keep Love upright and give him time to see if he can really acclimate to his role. They're going to have to do it by being smarter, using an extra back to block, playing Sims (who seems to have moved into the Tyler Davis role), calling more designed rollouts, etc.
"Whiffing on Humphrey should have told the story of the personnel dept."
Again: the only mildly corroborated story is that ARod made the call on Myers. We'll probably never know for sure if that's really true, but if it is, it doesn't exonerate BG--it points to the degree of dysfunction in management and the management-AR relationship.
jannesbjornson
October 21, 2023 at 12:39 pm
I seriously doubt they caved to a Rodgers hallucination. Their Job is to review the Film and Humphrey was a repeating All-American.
Coldworld
October 21, 2023 at 09:33 am
All GMs whiff, but the Myers whiff is looking a particularly bad one as a C generally and because of Humphrey. That said, good GMs hedge their bets and Gute did: drafting Tom, a great pick, and making it clear he thought he profiled best to C.
Unde the Murphy structure, Gute has no power over what the coaches do with what he gives them. Going in Gute likely thought he had Bakh and Nijman, as proven LT options. His coaches said otherwise after injury hit. Nijman is exiled. Likewise his Coaches refused to even press Myers.
Under this ridiculous Murphy system, the GM who assembled the roster has no control over coaches and personnel use. That means we can’t know who is to blame ultimately usually, but the personnel use on our OL has me convinced that we are so far from making the best use of what we have that, in this instance, no GM picks likely save us from our coaches.
We are reaping what Murphy sowed in many ways, but this is an instructive one.
JosephR
October 21, 2023 at 10:36 am
I stand by "my pick" of Myers back when we drafted him, I had him ahead of Humphrey on the board at #2 and #3 respectively; with Landon Dickerson #1. My reasoning? Competition. I felt both Dickerson and Myers had faced much better defenses in the SEC and BigTen than Humphrey in the Big 12. I think anyone could argue that at the time that was a fair statement.
In hindsight, I think what I missed is that as good as Ohio State was in 2021, they were embarrassed by Alabama in the National Championship. So maybe that assumed competition in the BigTen wasn't as great as I thought. Meanwhile, 2020 and 2021 were scrappy in the Big 12, despite the teams not being in major contention for the CFBP.
Ranking those three based on career PFF Grades alone:
Dickerson (37th Overall) - 68.7 (He plays Guard for the Eagles, however)
Myers (62nd Overall) - 59.27
Humphrey (63rd Overall) - 83.97
The next prospected Centers drafted:
Quinn Meinerz (99th Overall) - 73.9
Drew Dalman (115th Overall) - 74.17
Trey Hill (191st Overall) - 55.15 (Moved to Guard, Free Agent)
Jimmy Morrisey (231st Overall) - 53.17 (Moved to Guard, on his 2nd team)
Michal Menet (247th Overall) - 0.00 (Never played an official snap, previously on GB's PS)
Nonetheless, the numbers don't lie, the fact we spent a 2nd Round Pick on a player who's looking like he should've gone in the 6th or 7th Round stings. The only thing we can do now is triple down on OL in 2024 like we've been doing since TT to address positions of need. Given the fact that this group needs an extreme makeover, it wouldn't surprise me to see 4 players selected if we don't take a player in the 1st or 2nd Round.
jannesbjornson
October 21, 2023 at 12:45 pm
You lost me with the PFF grading.
LLCHESTY
October 22, 2023 at 08:40 am
One of my big rules for linemen is if one of them was an all state wrestler take the wrestler. Humphrey was a outstanding wrestler.
LLCHESTY
October 22, 2023 at 08:42 am
A little surprised LH didn't answer back with his "he's been a starter for two years, you can't replace him" claptrap.
KKB
October 20, 2023 at 04:40 pm
The OL development died when Steno was promoted.
dobber
October 20, 2023 at 07:13 pm
The OL slid when Linsley left.
jannesbjornson
October 21, 2023 at 12:43 pm
He had a bad back. More likely the loss of Sitton and Lang's attitude. Patrick carried some of the juice to clean off the pile. This group just looks soft and there are no Tauschers saving the low round miracle. At the moment, they have a poor group of backups, much less starters.
LeotisHarris
October 20, 2023 at 08:08 pm
The OL has looked confused since January of 2022.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 20, 2023 at 05:56 pm
While I don't know the current "best five," it was perfectly obvious last season that Josh Myers was not part of it. Do they have Walker Nijman and Mt Caleb all listed at LT? You'd think anyone competent would look at that and recognize somebody needs to be thinking and practicing RT.
While I have no problem with the assessment that we don't have a single coach worth a damn, I'm surprised to see people here calling for replacing ALL of them simultaneously. I honestly don't know what would happen if you kept the same roster and replaced the ENTIRE coaching staff simultaneously. Seems like maybe a bad idea!? I dunno. Also, I'd be surprised if Tom Clements isn't good, nor do I know what Rich Bisaccia has said about any of this assistant HC. If he's kept silent that's a bad sign, and if he said anything we wouldn't know.
LeotisHarris
October 20, 2023 at 07:58 pm
" Maybe they think he'll turn into Bulldog Turner with more playing time, who knows?"
What a great reference, splitpea1! Fewer than a handful of players drafted out of Hardin-Simmons U stuck around for more than a season or three in the NFL. Turner did, for 13 years.
Semi-non-interesting sidenote: former Packers kicker, Mike Mercer, also played at Hardin-Simmons.
#themoreyouknow
bleedgreen
October 20, 2023 at 04:00 pm
This teams drafting has not been good for several years. At least since later years of Thompson. I think the same scouting staff that took king ahead of Watt are still with them. Who would ever do that? Dont they ever actually watch these guys play?
cdoemel
October 20, 2023 at 07:10 pm
BS
TarynsEyes
October 20, 2023 at 04:00 pm
No matter the order, you prepare vegetables for the meal, they're the same vegetables. What makes them different is the seasoning (coaching) and the dish (scheme) you're making to offer a quality/desired plate.
It also helps to start with good vegetables, and a cook that can, and the ability to serve what was made.
Tundraboy
October 20, 2023 at 04:37 pm
Hmm . To me it's the same stale recipe using the same mostly old stock ingredients. And by the time they mix it up the stock is low and the new crop has withered, and we end up with pot luck meals.
KKB
October 20, 2023 at 04:41 pm
Tasty comment!
Pizzadoc
October 20, 2023 at 04:55 pm
This is your best comment yet. Decent analogy, mostly comprehensible English. More of this, Taryn!
If people have to read your post 3 times to figure out the snarky, cutting point you're making about how the Packers are not going in the right direction, some of the sting is lost. You could be way more effective.
TarynsEyes
October 20, 2023 at 05:13 pm
People read my posts three times. I had no idea.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 20, 2023 at 05:59 pm
Vegetarian football?!?
There are no vegetarians in football, lol.
barutanseijin
October 20, 2023 at 08:04 pm
You’d be surprised. There was even a former Packer quarterback who had a “mostly vegan “ diet.
porupack
October 20, 2023 at 08:07 pm
Yes, I love asparagus too.
ricky
October 20, 2023 at 05:20 pm
First, this was the first thing I thought of when you mentioned the "P" word:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oSFYxDGKy8&ab_channel=cubicleBOB
Now, why would the team keep underperforming offensive linemen as starters? This isn't the first time they've done this. Remember when Jake Hanson was the starter? He quickly proved he couldn't do the job, but they kept putting him out there. Apparently, doing the same thing and hoping for different results isn't just an offensive strategy, but a guiding philosophy of LaFleur and his "brain trust".
SicSemperTyrannis
October 20, 2023 at 06:02 pm
Hey, they aren't idiots.
(Who could possibly believe that at this point?)
packerbackerjim
October 20, 2023 at 07:00 pm
Dog house vs shit house?
THESZOTMAN1
October 20, 2023 at 07:23 pm
To Joseph R:
Great side-by-side analysis of OL performance.
I agree that Yosh/Rhyan deserve a shot. La Fleur's "doghouse" is no excuse not to the best 5 OL on the field. Whatever the reshuffle turns out to be, one thing is for certain. Newman CANNOT play LG.
Oh, and thank you for your service --- to the Packers and the USA.
The Szotman
dobber
October 21, 2023 at 08:27 am
I would amend your statement to say that Nijman should be playing.
I don't think Rhyan has shown anything that says he "deserves" a break like that. Having said that, JRJ's contract is up this off-season and the Packers need to be thinking long and hard about whether his future is at 1265. If they're unsure, they'll have to see what Rhyan can do at some point.
Tundraboy
October 20, 2023 at 08:58 pm
"I'd rather see Rhyan take his lumps in a game then to hope that Newman shows any signs of improvement"
Exactly the problem. Just from a development standpoint , they can't keep wasting games hoping the lightbulbs go on with this group. Give the new guys a shot. How else do we ever know what they can begin to do in a real game until they have the opportunities. Progress, growth.
joejetson
October 20, 2023 at 09:47 pm
LeFleur's history has shown that he is reluctant to make personnel changes. However, he may finally be feeling the heat with the underwhelming offensive line performance. Going into this season, there were several question marks about this roster. But offensive line was not supposed to be one of them. It has become the biggest problem. You can't blame the QB, RB's and receivers if the o-line is not doing it's job. He pretty much has to do something at this point. We'll see this Sunday.
TxFred
October 21, 2023 at 07:27 am
Need new position oline coach. Everyone lacks basic & fundamental run & pass blocking techniques. No holes, no sustained blocking Hornung & Taylor sure as hell would not tolerate that crap.
egbertsouse
October 21, 2023 at 08:09 am
The article mentioned making the playoffs. Cue the Jim Mora tape.
JosephR
October 21, 2023 at 09:51 am
Wow, this may be my best article yet!
I've never seen a more united group of commenters in my years(?) of writing on this site.
Or maybe it's just the Christmas spirit creeping into your veins this late October....
vin0770
October 21, 2023 at 09:53 am
I don’t care who they line up….don’t SUCK…game six not preseason!
PatrickGB
October 21, 2023 at 10:40 am
Maybe it’s time to consider a nasty road grading guard next draft. The offensive line coaching has stressed pass pro.