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Cardinals: 26 Packers: 20 The Good, Bad and Ugly

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Cardinals: 26 Packers: 20 The Good, Bad and Ugly

Aaron Rodgers, Jeff Janis, Mike Daniels

Dropped Interceptions, Overtime Defense

Tim Masthay

 

 

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (155) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

cpabandit's picture

I would include Abbrederis in the good and consider including Rodgers into the ugly as well as keeping him in the good. We're all aware of the hail Mary pass, and a few deep passes but lets consider the bounced pass to Jones, the over the head deep passes and out-of-bounds passes. Aside from the hail Mary pass (which I give Jeff Janis more credit than Rodgers for the completion) what did he do that was so spectacular? Cobb made a great one-handed catch but the throw wasn't great. And why didn't he spike the ball knowing the clock was draining fast?

Packer_Pete's picture

I wouldn't put Rodgers in the 'good' category. Sure, he made a few throws that only elite QBs can make, but he also had a lot of inaccurate throws and couldn't seem to find some open receivers again. And I know people want to harp on Janis not running the best routes, but he made a couple of good adjustments to throws which weren't on the money.
Plus, I don't like Rodgers constantly showing off teammates and pointing fingers. Seems to be everybody else's fault but his, as usual...

Good: Janis, OL, Crosby
Bad: Overtime D (especially Peppers)
Ugly: Masthay and injuries again

dobber's picture

Did we ever get an update on the severity of Cobb's injury? If he was coughing up blood, it can't have been good...

Packer_Pete's picture

no, and I don't think there will be an injury report for some time LOL. I hope he is ok. but he will have months to recover. Not a medical professional, but if one is coughing up blood after an accident it's often due to lung injuries...

FrozenTundra's picture

That reminds me of a time when Bret Favre got smashed. An assistant coach went up to Mike Holmgren and said "Brett's spitting up blood". Mike looked at him and said "How much?".

Tundraboy's picture

They said during broadcast he has a bruised lung.

Rossonero's picture

Bruised lung is all I heard.

packersbrewers's picture

He did not come back to WI last night. He was kept in AZ for observation.

A bruised lung is no joke though so hope he is ok!

Crackerpacker's picture

I'm no Doctor but I don't think I would fly at altitude with a damaged lung without a medical check up first.

Tundraboy's picture

Agree. There was a corner end zone throw where I think it was Janis, was open, throw was out of end zone, and Rodgers was pointing at him.

gopack1265's picture

It's time for Mike McCarthy to take his fat ass back to Pennsylvania. I've had enough of him and his underachieving teams.

Amanofthenorth's picture

Add this guy in to the ugly. This is spoken by a fan of any other nfl team other than the Packers.

Packer_Pete's picture

Unbelievable... Did you even watch the game? this was supposedly the best team in the NFL right now they were playing against, and they took them to the brink. With their 4th, 5th, and 6th WRs...
How anyone can be critical of McCarthy after last night's game is beyond me. Please go and find yourself some winner to root for. Maybe the Vikings, as they are so good. Or the Bears...

tm_inter's picture

Right on, Packer_Pete! I couldn't have said it better.

Irish_Cheesehead's picture

Time for you to root for another team. Bye

GVPacker's picture

The Ugly = OT Coin Toss! Seriously how do you screw up a Coin Toss?

Daniel Sisk's picture

Really, let's flip till we get it right

Nicholas's picture

Even Rodgers pointed out just how unusual and significant that was. Clearly the packers lost for other reasons. But just for fun lets consider that the referee was showing heads up. Rodgers knows that the probability of the coin landing on the opposite sides of the showing side is greater calls tails. The referee tosses the coin and it doesn't flip. And the packers lose the toss. That is a clear fix. There was absolutely zero chance of the packers winning that toss without a flip. Rodgers calls it out. The ref picks up the coin. Does not show what side of the coin is facing up. Does not offer Rodgers a chance to call a side. Flips the coin in a hurry and the packers lose the toss. Not saying this is some sort of conspiracy but highly unusual and if one were to rig a coin flip. This is the textbook on how to do so. Also unusual is the cardinals getting away with a clear offensives Pi penalty on their last offensive drive. The proceeding to get away with a clear defensive pi penalty on their last defensive drive. The referees played a very large role in ensuring an undesirable outcome in unusual ways on three separate occasions at critical times in the last 3 minutes of the game

Vrog's picture

"Rodgers knows that the probability of the coin landing on the opposite sides of the showing side is greater"

Are you kidding me?

ollie418's picture

Good - The Effort

Bad - Switching to Zone Defense after dominating entire game and making Cardinals look horrible. Defense in general when we needed them most. Cardinals scored on last three possessions. One was a gimme, of course, as they got the ball already in field goal range.

Clock management as usual. If they do not get the Hail Mary clock management was the death of them. Only one time out left in a close game. Are you kidding me? Not spiking it after long Janis catch.

McCarthy not continuing hurry up offense.

Why did the Packers change their tactics on both sides of the ball in second half?

Ugly - Masthay. Is is absolutely brutal. What happened to him? He used to boom kicks. Now he can't kick one longer than 40 yards.

D Ernesto's picture

You hit on one of my issues with any coach who's ego says, I must play God, I must call the plays. Hey, today clock managment, red flag management, communications, strategy and assessment are the any head coach should be involved in. Play calling is a huge distraction to that. The O coach won the first 6 games. How many did Mikey win?

Daniel Sisk's picture

I agree with you to a point, Aaron should be calling the plays and discussing on critical down and distance plays. Who sees the field and knows tendencies better than him?

barutanseijin's picture

Iif I had God on my team, I'd sure as hell play him

WKUPackFan's picture

And your head coaching experience is?

Oppy's picture

I pointed this out about a week ago:

MAsthay set the packers record for net punt return yards in 2015, breaking a team record that stood for 53 years.

I know, it's shocking and doesn't seem possible when actually watching the punts...

Ron zook commented that he asked mAsthay to take on for the team and go for net yardage, not gross.

Is it possible math say was being asked to forgo distance and concentrate instead on hang time and directional punting in order to put the coverage units in the best position to negate any chance of return?

Yes, he definitely shanked two or three this year, but considering his average net yards, something must be deliberate.

4thand10's picture

I think Masthay shanked more than way more than 3. One of his long punts came when he had a 30mph wind at his back this year. Opposing teams field position...regardless if they had a "star" return man was extremely favorable due to his punts. Field position can affect a whole quarter of play...just from a bad punt. Directional? A good directional punt is long and out of bounds.

Oppy's picture

We can postulate about how bad it seemed to be (and I agree, it seemed like an overall poor season for Masthay), but the reality is he netted an average of 40 yards per punt for the season, and that's a franchise record.

Do you remember Masthay absolutely crushing his punts just as often as he shanked it short? I don't, and I doubt anyone else does, either. So, since we're talking about -average- net, it stands to reason that his punting was, on average, pretty good, and the times he did punt poorly were not as numerous as our memories serve.

Lastly, take into account it is NET we're talking about, and the comments of his coach. It certainly sounds like the strategy was not so much just kicking it deep, but rather, punting it high and to a point to give coverage the best opportunity to corral the returner for no or little return.

Perhaps the Packers did case study and found that punting for distance alone often resulted in giving up more yardage due to out-kicking coverage, and targeted a certain distance to hang time ratio that netted optimum net yardage. It is certainly possible.

As far as long at out of bounds, that certainly is the old school thought process and seems sound, but then, why is it that the majority of punts in the NFL are kept inside the field of play? I have to again surmise that studies have shown either a) Punters attempting to kick for distance often falter on accuracy or vice versa, or, b) the potential for big, game changing turnovers created by way of forced fumble or drops by the return man are too great to cut out of possibility in most situations by punting the ball out of the field of play.

Just stating the facts of the matter as it concerns Masthay, because I find the reality being so different from the perception that it makes it interesting, and further attempting to reason out the reasons for such decisions.

Nicholas's picture

The field position swing on the cardinals first points of the game made me lose my shit. The cardinals went three and out on their first possession. Punted from there 20. Green Bay responds with a three and out punt of there own. The result? The cardinals get there second possession at the green bay 40 yard line. No big runback. Just incompetence. This was huge. Unnacceptable

Oppy's picture

Duplicate post

cpabandit's picture

Yesterday he punted 4 times and 37 yards was the longest punt.

D Ernesto's picture

Funny just happened in today's game defense switched to zone, commentator pointed out they were hoping pass rush would be effective. Ya that was Dom was counting on, datone Jones, the switch and powerfulbj raji gun toting Guin and a very over weight Daniels would. Crush Palmer. Funny didn't seem to work. Palmer had a field day.

paxbak's picture

I saw Rodgers passer rating for this game. He was a 77. Those are Anthony Dilweg type numbers. I hope Rodgers finds his superstar ways again. I know he didn't have any WRs, but I thought he actually looked better with the backup WRs at times.

Hopefully he has learned to take a few chances which I always thought he should do more of. He went downfield more in this game than he has in all games combined this year. Hopefully that will pay dividends next year.

sonomaca's picture

Do we know for sure that Rodgers hasn't been playing hurt since the Denver game. I think those people who have ripped him might not know the full truth.

4thand10's picture

Who would you rather have in there? What were Palmers numbers? When Rodgers takes chances they turn into INT's. An incomplete pass is WAY better than a turn over IMO. Close you eyes and imagine another QB from any other team playing with what we had...and I think you will agree that the results would be worse. I'm not saying Rodgers is God, but any other QB from ANY other NFL team we would be 6-10.

Oppy's picture

Any other year, I'd agree with you.

However, this season? Rodgers has not been throwing the ball like Rodgers, and Rodgers has not been making decisions like Rodgers.

Take away who the WRs are, the results of the throws (drops, INTs, etc), what defense he is throwing against.. Just isolate Aaron Rodgers decisions, his reads, and the accuracy/velocity/touch on his throws.. He did not play to his standard, and yes, there were a handful or more of QB's in the league who played better than Rodgers this season, who could have probably garnered as many or more wins with the Packers this season.

4thand10's picture

I agree on some of the reads and throws,but I can't dismiss timing and route design .It just seemed like pressure got to him before the routes developed. And I know there are a lot of variables with timing. I can agree that it seemed to be a off type year for him and we are all used to seeing him play like....well, play like Aaron Rodgers. Yesterday they played with a lot of grit.

sonomaca's picture

Well, on the bright side, if Rodgers is injured, he'll likely be ready next year, and next year we'll have:

Jordy
Cobb
Jones
Montgomery
Abbrederis
Janis
Adams

That would doubtless be the best receiving corps in the NFL. Pick a middle linebacker and TE in rounds 1 and 2. Probably the best team in the NFL.

sonomaca's picture

Like to resign Perry and Neal, as well. The defense has been mostly very good this year.

sonomaca's picture

One more thing: Bunch formation with Jordy, Janis, Jones on the left, Cobb and Adams (or Montgomery) to the right...

Who ya' gonna cover, bitches!

Forget the TE.

ray nichkee's picture

The ugly- any so called packer fan that doesn't think this offense over achieved in the post season after witnessing one of the worst regular seasons in a long time.

Portland Mark's picture

Which is why I wish they would have went for2 and the win instead of OT. The offense had momentum then. Why give AZ a chance? Plus, they have now lost 3 playoff games in OT. I don't want to them OT again in the post season.

barutanseijin's picture

"We want the ball and we're gonna score" ending was pretty nice from a Packer perspective.

Bearmeat's picture

How about a season long GBU?

G: The Defense as a whole 2 rooks at CB, JC Tretter.
B. MMs offensive coaching changes, The skill positions on offense, Eddie Lacy
U: The offense.

Honorable mention: ARod and RRod as Bad. Abby, Starks, Daniels, safety play as good. Masthay as ugly.

Oppy's picture

I must be the only packers fan who is disgusted with Aaron Rodger's performance on the final drive of regulation, despite the outcome.

Rodgers, when it mattered most, threw the ball horribly for the most part, the drive kept alive and eventual touchdown being more a function of a WR making astonishing plays on low percentage passes.

With exception to displays of raw arm strength, Rodgers threw horribly inaccurate passes in crunch time, made lousy decisions like trying to be the hero on 3rd and 20 and throwing a bomb when you're clearly in 4 down territory, and the absolutely rookie move of needlessly wasting 20 seconds with zero time outs left.

Rodgers showcased all that ailed him all season long on that final drive- sub par accuracy, uncharacteristic poor judgement, a desire to do it all by himself. The packers didn't deserve to even sniff overtime. You can thank two truly inspired plays by WRs for that, in spite of an atrocious showing by #12 when all the chips were down.

I am thankful he has an offseason to get himself right between the ears and find his accuracy again., because the packers need Rodgers to be what we know he is capable of. The 2015 version of Rodgers didn't throw the ball well enough and played hero too much.

Irish_Cheesehead's picture

Rodgers has been inaccurate all season and yesterday was no exception. Sure hope he gets it figured out in the offseason.

Tundraboy's picture

All true. Even a friend of mine who was watching game with my family kept noticing how awful he threw the ball. Maybe he is over thinking things, because on the 4 and 20 throw to Janis he was pinpoint. Too many throws sailing away and wasted plays. He is this year's enigma.

Dan Stodola's picture

Over thinking. I can agree w/ that. He couldn't decide which covered receiver he should try to throw to most of the year. Not like receivers ever helped Rodgers job. Drops were prevalent, Adams regressed, Janis doesn't know how to run routes and not one of the receivers were capable of beating press coverage.

All those throw aways and sailing passes were becuz receivers weren't open!

croatpackfan's picture

I'm not disgusted with Aaron Rodger's performance whole year, but I already mention several times that he has ugly year. He set standards for himself and this season he did not lived uo to that level.
It happens. Not just to Aaron. I beleive old himself will show next season!

barutanseijin's picture

I'm with you zippy. I think the main problem on O this year was #12 not being the #12 of past years.

DrealynWilliams's picture

So, let me get this right, guys...

It wasn't bad play calling?

Oh -- okay.

Tundraboy's picture

No your not. I was disgusted with him and MM on the second to last series as well. 3 minutes to go and it fortunately ended with a Lazer throw to Janis and the Hail Mary. Can't play that way,most times you lose.

D Ernesto's picture

The good: Attitude! Packers went into Ariz with the attitude we can beat these suckers with or without all our injury issues. You can't buy that.

The Bad: Ref calls and lack of pass interference. If they were going to be soft on it should have told both teams that before the game.

The Ugly: Dom Capers. Had the perfect defense in the first half and had to change it up to some sort of zone coverage that allowed Palmer to make it happen. Nice going Dom hope they dump you. Its beyond time for that.

Oppy's picture

They held the leagues best offense to 20 points...

Larry Fitzgerald is going to get his catches eventually.

We can talk all day about the man vs zone stuff. The reality is the defense held them to twenty.

I wonder if Micah hyde's injury played into the loosening of the defense as well.

zoellner25's picture

And 7 of those points came on a miracle tipped ball TD

Oppy's picture

Excellent point

Packer_Pete's picture

And another 3 after the failed 4th down deep in our own half shortly before the end of regulation... the D played very well overall and was the main reason the team was still in it - and that was mostly the story for the whole season. With an O the Packers had for most of mcCarthys prior years, the D this year certainly was good enough to win the SB. The O on the other hand was dreadful for the most part.

Nick Perry's picture

That's what I think Oppy. It seemed as soon as Hyde went down Capers switched to zone. They held the Cardinals to 75 yards in the 1st half. The Cardinals had a total of 40 yards rushing for 2.1 yards a carry, the Defense was dominating. The moment Hyde went down it all seemed to turn...

D.D. Driver's picture

And let me preface this by saying, I HATE bitching about officiating. I really do. BUT... the Cardinals figured out a way to neutralize the pass rush by holding on every play. Some of the replays were just ridiculous. Fistfuls of jersey. Guys in what looked like headlocks.

Idiot Fan's picture

The play where Randall intercepted it in the endzone I was so pissed because Peppers was basically running at the QB with two guys hanging on his back with no holding call.

Though to be fair, on the hail mary, DBakh basically threw Campbell to the ground.

sonomaca's picture

Regs "let 'em play." Remember, the call against Rucker was a game saver for the Packers.

DrealynWilliams's picture

Right on @Oppy

Do y'all remember those games against the Bears/Lions where Calvin Johnson and Brandon Marshall would go wild but we would still win?

This is different?

ollie418's picture

Right on with the Ugly - Great scheme in first half then change in second half. Why, because of injury? What happened to "next man up?" That go ahead drive by the Cardinals was awful, the D could not get off the field.

Bye Bye Dom! Bitch

Oppy's picture

What if Hyde was a key point in the defensive gameplan, from the standpoint that they felt Micah Hyde's skills or attributes matched up perfectly to cover a key man on ARI's offense, allowing the other DB's or LB's to then be placed in advantageous match ups?

Sometimes, man coverage is ALL about the match up, and one key piece on the chessboard tilts the field. If that piece is no longer available, it has a ripple effect that changes everyone's assignment and match up.

The inverse of this is the Packer's WR corps- it has always been predicated on "You can take away #1 or #2, but we're betting our #3,4,5 WRs are better than your #3,4,5 DBs."

I'm not saying Hyde was indeed the lynch pin, but to be dismissive of the impact a single player could have made in a man scheme is over simplifying things a bit.

DrealynWilliams's picture

@Ollie

Please, please ,pleeeeeeeeease tell me you're a teenage boy.

That would explain everything about the comment I'm replying to.

WKUPackFan's picture

Attitude? Really?? That's all it took to improve 25 points from three weeks ago?

All the info gained from the previous game had nothing to do with it. Could have just skipped all the preparation. All the years of training? Nah, that doesn't matter. The proper attitude is all that matters.

Gforcetrivers's picture

Not playing Abby and Janis all year was a huge mistake.

Oppy's picture

Janis really looked like garbage when he had his chances earlier in the season. I have to admit, his route running looked much improved last night, which is a great sign, and obviously he made two very clutch catches. They weren't pretty, but he willed himself to make the catch neccessary. Maybe the turning point? Perhaps Janis had things starting to click now, and with a productive off season can start to really contribute on offense.

Abby's lack of PT the last many weeks confounded me. He had some drops earlier in the season, I know, but his route running is so crisp and sudden in and out of his breaks, I really thought he was a kid who deserved more time on the field, especially since Adams struggled mightily. Why not reward abbrederis with snaps and at the same time provide motivation to Adams to get his shit together? Lost opportunity

badaxed's picture

Mc Dumpy and Rogers have their favorites an only way abby or janis gets to play is what happened last night,

Oppy's picture

The guy you call Mc Dumpy is, most likely, far better at his job than you are at yours, and given the chance, could probably steal your wife or girlfriend from you, and if you have kids, they'd probably start calling him Daddy and completely forget you exist all together. Actually, your wife or girlfriend would probably also start calling him Daddy and forget you, too.

Just remember that- you're a bigger loser than some guy you call Mc Dumpy.

WinUSA's picture

Oppy: A comment totally without class...it was unworthy of you.

WinUSA's picture

Oppy: A comment totally without class...it was unworthy of you.

Packer_Pete's picture

"Abby's lack of PT the last many weeks confounded me" - not just you. I don't remember the game, but he dropped one pass which would've been a 1st down and then didn't play a down for the rest of the game. Meanwhile, Adams dropped a couple and of course stayed in. Jason Wilde asked about that double standard in the presser and just got a very evasive answer. I do believe that there are some WRs on this team who have a better rapport with #12 than others, and I think that is why those WRs play. After all, one of them is 'basically a probowl type player', even if he can't catch a ball...
Had it not been for injuries to Adams and Cobb, neither Abby nor Janis would've played much yesterday on O. But I don't think the success would've been there without them, at least not as much as with them. They may have not been the best option at the beginning of the season, but I think during the last month, they should've gotten more playing time. Overall Janis is a deep threat and Abby is a crisp route runner. Both are better than Adams IMHO. Adams should be gone if all others come back - Jordy, Cobb, Ty, Abby, Janis, and maybe a rookie or 2. If those can stay healthy, where would Adams play?

Oppy's picture

I know I'm in the minority on this- especially after his very poor season- but I do believe that Adams is extremely talented and has the ability to be a nightmare for opposing defenses. I don't know what was up with the drops this year, but I've seen Adams make more true, fully extended one-handed grabs in his two years and two camps than I remember seeing any other Packers WR make in recent memory, and he has shown last season vs. NE and DAL he can take over a game.

All that said, wow, what a horrible showing this season from Davante up until the last two weeks of the season, but I believe it is correctable and he has the talent and skills to stay rooted in the 5 or 6 man WR corps next year barring an amazing jump by Ty/Abby/Janis or Adams' inability to snap back into form.

Packer_Pete's picture

Oppy, he certainly played better last year. But I never saw an ability to separate or outrun an opposing CB of at least average speed. And if a WR cannot separate then he better catches everything - actually that is why I am pretty high on R Rodgers, he catches what is thrown to him. Adams had so many drops this year even when balls were thrown well that I am not sure he has good hands. But I would of course like to see this season just as an aberration. Just have my doubts about that.

Dan Stodola's picture

Adams certainly has enough talent to be a part of the WR corp next year. And its not like Thompson is going to give up on a 2nd yr WR drafted in the 2nd rd.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Adams has the talent to take over games. He had good games last year when the matchups were heavily in his favor. It shouldn't be too hard for a WR w/ talent to do well when facing at best a #3 CB on the opposing team.

That said, Adams is not and never should be considered better than a #2 WR. He lack game breaking speed to get deep and threaten teams down field. That makes his a possession receiver, which he has the talent to be a pretty good one. But he won't ever project as a true #1 WR.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

He is talented. But... He has a lousy attitude as far as I can tell. The combo WR/QB coaching meant all of the group regressed. He played injured for good chunk of the season. He's clearly jot talented enough to overcome all that.

barutanseijin's picture

In Minnesota?

egbertsouse's picture

Ugly: McCarthy mismanaging the game and clock and losing his balls and not going for two when you had their D in shock and the game was on the line. I'd take ARod from the two yard line over a coin flip any day.

I was screaming at the TV, "Go for two and win the game!!" so loud my wife banished me from the room.

Lphill's picture

Cobb has a bruised lung, staying overnight for observation, I think the blood was coming from a cut lip must have lost his mouth guard on the hit to the ground.

zoellner25's picture

Good = Guion, HHCD, Oline.
Bad = masthay, 3- man rushes, MM play calling on second to last series in regulation. WTF, a run play????
Ugly = masthay, tackling. The side and back judges.

Idiot Fan's picture

Yeah, the oline needs to get some love. They played a very solid game yesterday.

nostradanus's picture

What a great game! I am very proud of the way our Green Bay Packers gutted this one out with an Offense decimated by injuries. I feel your pain my despondent Packer fanatic friends, but take heart knowing that even though no one was giving the Green and Gold a chance, we took the Cardinals to overtime in their house and but for a few dropped interceptions and a very lucky TD that was tipped by #23, the Pack could have won this game.
I know there are no moral victories, but I thought the Packers showed a huge amount grit in this contest and will come back healthy and stronger next season for it!
Go Pack in 2016
NostraDANus

badaxed's picture

MORAL VICTORIES!!!!!!????
2ND PLACE IS FOR RINKY DINK TEAMS IN RINKY DINK CITIES, (LOMBARDI)

4thand10's picture

Badaxed=queens fan.

Packer_Pete's picture

That is why Vikings are always just straight out losers. They can't even manage moral victories...

marpag1's picture

I'm not saying that Eddie Lacy is slow. I'm just saying that when Lacy went off on that 60 yard run, NFL skycam was able to keep up with him.

(I know, I know.... skycam is pretty fast).

Tundraboy's picture

That play showed without question he was out of shape this year. That extra 20 pounds makes all the difference.

Dan Stodola's picture

Lacy was done w/ that run by 30 yds. He seemed to want to stop, but he'd look like a complete moron for going down w/o being touched. He has got to get his ass in shape for next year. Hell if he drops to 235 he's still a power RB but one that can run a little.

EdsLaces's picture

I saw a mock draft of us getting Elliot .....Lacy and Elliot would be pretty crazy.

Nick Perry's picture

We have a lot of other needs before taking a RB in the fist Round. While I agree it would be a crazy BF, I'd still rather see other posiions addressed.

sonomaca's picture

I think Lacy's fine. Just work him a bit harder in preseason.

D Ernesto's picture

Hell keep him out of the pizza parlors andrib joints. To come into camp in tht shape is a slap in the face to his team.

WKUPackFan's picture

Posting jibberish is a slap in the face of human intelligence.

MarkinMadison's picture

Good: The defense until they got gassed. I was rooting for the 2 pt. conversion to win because I didn't think they had enough left in the tank. I'm not going to bash MM for not going for the 2 because it is a crap shoot either way.

Jeff Janis for catching with his hands instead of his body, and for making some big plays when the Packers really needed it.

Bad: Eddie Lacy's conditioning. When you have no one between you and the end zone after 50 yards of a 60 yard run and you are slowing down because you can't keep up the pace, and you then get caught, your conditioning sucks. I would not give this guy a second contract.

Ugly: Refs. How about a PI on the 3rd down, second to last drive? How about a holding call on the AZ left tackle (although in fairness the NFL lets a lot of these go)? How about getting some rotation on a flipping coin (ok, that's petty, but c'mon man)?

Overrated: AZ.

Rossonero's picture

I'm most frustrated that two years in a row, our offense doesn't touch the ball in OT. They've got to change that rule. Let each team possess it once, if both score TDs, then the next one is the game winning FG or TD. An entire season should not be left to a coin flip.

Oppy's picture

Bah, both teams SHOULDN'T have guaranteed opportunities IMO. Bring back TRUE sudden death... The 'Brett Favre' rule (as I call it), that changed the game to allow a team to respond to a OT FG is already bad enough.

I don't want teams to play for overtime. I want teams to FEAR the random nature of overtime. I want teams to desperately play to WIN a game outright whenever possible because they don't want anything to do with OT unless all other options are exhausted.

You don't play to win in regulation, you play to tie? Fine, now you deal with true SUDDEN DEATH football, and you also have to cope with the randomness of first possession predicated by the luck of the coin flip.

Tundraboy's picture

Excellent. Play to win no matter what. Don't get to OT, don't moan about penalties, and don't waste TOs

4thand10's picture

I Agree Oppy.

Queenlizzie13's picture

Either go all the way and do it college style or I agree - do sudden death. This FG/TD business is in between and it sucks.

I half wanted them to go for two even if it might have been dumb. We had all the momentum at that point. OT killed it. Also wanted to have Rodgers have a chance to win it.

Queenlizzie13's picture

Otherwise it's not really OT if the team that tied did not get the ball. Other sports OT, both teams get a chance at possession, including NCAA football.

barutanseijin's picture

you could have them play a whole new game and just not have overtime.

Tundraboy's picture

I am more frustrated that two years in a row after leading with game and outcome in our hands we let it get to OT. Thankful that MM had team ready to play but letting victory slip through our hands, by getting conservative two years in a row!??

Rossonero's picture

I agree with everything you said until the lacy bit. Have you ever had a rib injury? It's painful to breathe! He's not, nor has he ever been a 4.4 guy.

I'm amazed that one bad season marred by injuries to himself and to a battered offensive line, the number of fans who conveniently and quickly forget that Lacy gave us a power running game that we had not seen in nearly 10 years with Ahman Green.

Offensive Rookie of the Year and two 1,000 yard seasons -- one of which completely saved the 2013 season when Rodgers was injured -- and you wanna let him walk? You're nuts man.

Oppy's picture

I agree with it being crazy to -want- to let Lacy go. He's got the skills and production to show for it.. However, if he continues to show the Packers that he doesn't want to dedicate to doing what he needs to do from a health and physical maintenance standpoint to be in the kind of condition he needs to be in to excel, well, then I would dread the idea of giving him any type of long term deal for substantial money.

Perhaps a clause that ties up a large part of his pay structure to his weight at the start of camp, start of the season, and end of the season? Maybe that's possible.

Tundraboy's picture

Agree

Packer_Pete's picture

I couldn't care less about his weight as long as production is there. Maybe find other incentives.
But agreed letting him go would be not too wise. He brings a certain toughness to the team. And I see quite often that DBs shy away from tackling him.

MarkinMadison's picture

Packers wanted him to work out with Aman Green last off season, and he quit after a week. Too much work. His gut is the same size as mine, and I'm old enough to be his father. And yes, I've had cracked ribs before. Wanna let him walk. No. Fear paying him big money and having him mail it in for the rest of his career, you bet. TT can only keep so many core guys. Lacy has not worked like he is one of them.

Oppy's picture

exactly.

hey, do you remember where you read that about lacy and ahman? i never heard that before.

4thand10's picture

Have you seen the gut on Mike Tolbert? I'm not 100% on weight being the whole issue....the media brought up weight, blogs brought it up but I don't think he was any "fatter" than the previous year. In fact, the coaches dismissed weight. I do think that there were injuries, 2 really good years and then one real stinker tells me it's an injury, or perhaps several. I'm sure we'll get the full story out of GB eventually.

Oppy's picture

Bob McGinn cited a few different sources from different front offices in the league and the NFCN in specific (take Bob's anonymous sources as you will, I tend to think they are legit, but opinions vary), and the consensus was that Lacy was indeed overweight compared to prior seasons, one personnel man said they'd range him in the 250 range, whereas they believed him to be more around 230 prior.

I don't think it's a problem for a big frame back to tip the scales a little heavy, but he has to run like a big frame back who is tipping the scales a little heavy. Lacy ran all year attempting to wiggle and finesse his way out of the back field. If he's going to weigh in heavy (and I definitely believe he looks much larger than he has prior years, and seems to move like it as well), he had better run straight for the intended lane, hit the hole HARD, and drop the pads if anyone gets in his way.

Dan Stodola's picture

The less trained and conditioned you are, the more your play reflects it. Even in term of running w/ aggression and decisiveness.

Rossonero's picture

Where is this story about lacy refusing to continue training with Ahman Green? I Googled it several times and got nothing.

Dan Stodola's picture

Lacy had a bad ankle injury the last 4-6 games his rookie year and he still averaged close to 100 yds per game. This year he got an ankle injury and couldn't run on it. WHat's the difference? Weight and conditioning!

If the story about the Packers wanting to train w/ Ahman are true then Lacy has no excuses. Granted Ahman trains like a warrior and he also played like one. Lacy? Not so much!

Rossonero's picture

I've never heard of that story either.

MarkinMadison's picture

Brother-in-law told me about it during the game. He's in media in eastern Wisconsin. I'm not sure if it has ever been published.

Green is co-owner of the D1 Training Center location in Green Bay.

The Voice's picture

The Good... our need for a wide receiver greatly decreased in draft. we have two new unused receivers maybe we will use them next year.
The Bad... another year Arod wasted. Sheilds missing Three int. Running play on first down on every series accept the last two series.
The Ugly...Play calling ...Caller changed but laminated
play sheet did not.
...Team management/red flag...Too many chiefs
and no assistants.

The Voice's picture

The Good... our need for a wide receiver greatly decreased in draft. we have two new unused receivers maybe we will use them next year.
The Bad... another year Arod wasted. Sheilds missing Three int. Running play on first down on every series accept the last two series.
The Ugly...Play calling ...Caller changed but laminated
play sheet did not.
...Team management/red flag...Too many chiefs
and no assistants.

4thand10's picture

I'm not so sure that decreases...its not a given that Nelson will be 100%. Cobb is a slot WR. When Janis and Abby were picked...that was mostly to improve special teams. I think they should draft another WR. It would be nice to be able to run a spread on occasion to stretch out other teams defenses.

EdsLaces's picture

I jinxed shields and for that I am sorry:(

EdsLaces's picture

For us to be down Jordy Cobb and Davante I am proud of how well we played.

Oppy's picture

and montgomery

badaxed's picture

The good: Janis, Abby, O line for pass protection.

The bad: Rogers poor passing this season.

The ugly: coaching, two years in a row of choking on defense in the clutch and poor clock management.

Those who don't change are doomed to repeat themselves, over and over and over............

Losing three home games to division rivals is unacceptable to fans ........not to head office.

Repeat........ same results over and over and over until that one season where it all implodes before there will be a change.

packersbrewers's picture

Good:

O-Line. After last time this was a huge improvement in at least giving Rodgers time.

Janis and Abby. Forced into heavy game action and did well for 5th and 6th receivers.

First Half Defense. They did well all half in keeping the run game in check, getting some pressure on Palmer, and covering receivers. Not sure why we switched it up in the second half. And we just won't mention what happened in the 30 seconds of OT.

Bad:

Missed opportunities. I know we were playing with our 4, 5, and 6 WR but failed red zone offenses, too many stalled offensive drives, terrible tackling/fundamentals, poor punts, dropped INTs, bone headed penalties, blown coverages, dropped passes, poor throws,...We had chances. Arizona was trying hard to give us the game. We just didn't take it.

Ugly

My blood pressure. My feelings. My emotions. My spirit. Another year. Another heart breaker. I go into each season with such high hopes. It feels like such a let down and disappointment. This year stings slightly less then last year since last year we had what a 12 point lead with just over 2 minutes to go and somehow managed to screw it up. But this one hurts too because no one gave us a chance especially after our regular season beat down and the game was in our grasp and it just fall apart.

Sigh.

Oppy's picture

The strange thing about being a DB in the NFL:

If you play just well enough to just barely get your fingers on 3 or 4 balls a game to break up the pass, you had an excellent game...

but if you play with such exceptional leverage, anticipation, skill, and accumen that you put yourself in position to completely jump 3 or 4 routes and get both hands on the ball, you are beat like a horse by the public for not getting the interceptions.

Don't get me wrong, yeah, you want the takeaways.. but it never fails to confuse me how a guy who barely gets into position to break up a number of passes but had no chance to intercept them will be said to have had a great game despite a loss, but a guy who completely dominates his guy in coverage but fails to get the interceptions is pegged as having contributed to the loss.

packersbrewers's picture

I tend to agree for the most part.

For me I don't think he caused the loss nor do I think he was responsible for it in any significant way. I don't think he had a bad game at all. In fact I think having him back was huge for the defense. I tend to get annoyed when players go for the INT instead of covering or go for the strip instead of the tackle. If the opportunity is there yes go for the strip. Go for the INT. But don't try and be a hero at the cost of blowing your primary assignment.

I know one of the 3 would have been pretty difficult. I think the other 2 were fairly routine. However overall when looking back I don't think it cost us the game in isolation. It was simply part of a series of many missed opportunities and that is over all very frustrating.

But yes let's say he does make an INT maybe the game changes, but you could have said that about the offense getting a TD instead of a FG just one time or not leaving Larry WIDE open in OT or Rodgers not throwing the ball into the dirt on the pass to Jones or Masthay actually punting it beyond 34 yards or......so yeah. Plus we did get an INT in the red zone which was HUGE. But our offense didn't do anything with the momentum swing anyway. So I don't blame Shields or say he had a bad game for that reason. There were many missed chances by many players. Lots of blame to shuffle around.

Tundraboy's picture

Exactly. Before the game we would have been thrilled to have Shields play at all let alone the whole game and he did his job. Stalled drives and FGs instead of TDs cost us. As did going away from hurry up and zone D in 2nd half. Rodgers 3rd qtr interception, MMs conservative approach in final 3 minutes is what kept Cards in game. Fluke zipped TD didn't help, but can't Expect or count on interceptions to win it, we had our chances.

Packer_Pete's picture

Totally agree with you..
But what it also shows is that Shields has the ability to be a star and an elite CB if he makes those plays. So far he hasn't shown he is elite.

ray nichkee's picture

Well said oppy, with the new rules DB is probably the hardest position to play in the NFL at this time. When it comes to the rules they are not in the favor of the book.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I agree with Oppy, but I also agree with Packer Pete. Shields had a very good day and is a fine cover corner. What stops Shields from being near elite is his inability to catch the ball, to secure the interception. That inability allows QBs to take chances figuring Shields won't make the QB pay the full price (INT) for a questionable throw. If Woodson had dropped a bunch of interceptions instead of being a ball hawk, he would still have been a good DB, but he wouldn't have been HOFer. That said, making the tough interceptions is one thing, but I think making the easy ones is part of the job description of a CB.

cheddarhead's picture

Good: next year's outlook. Receivers, QB, O line(when healthy), running backs(maybe a slimmer Lacey), secondary.
Need TE help, D line, and middle linebacker
Bad: punter
GO PACK GO!!

The Voice's picture

If you have complained about a receiver dropping a number of passes during the year, I do not understand how you can condone a DB dropping 3 possible int. Granted the first would have been difficult but there is no excuse for #2 and less excuse for #3. Will the weekly paycheck be also dropped on the way out the door this afternoon? He wanted the big money he got the big money and Oh ya INT is a major part of his JOB.

MarkinMadison's picture

Because DBs would be WRs if they had the hands to do it.

Oppy's picture

The primary function of the Wide Receiver is to catch the balls thrown to him by the Quarterback.

The primary function of the Corner Back is to prevent the completion of passes from the Quarterback to the Receiver.

Primary job responsibility in one of your scenarios is fulfilled, while in the other scenario, it is not.

The Voice's picture

So are you saying that Adams should have played DB this year. He sure fulfills the (As you put it) The primary function of the Corner Back is to prevent the completion of passes from Quarterback to the receiver. And where does that leave Mr. Schields.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Oppy explained this very well. It leaves Shields with the status of a fine cover corner who is not near-elite because he is not a ball hawk. It is why he did not get Revis or Woodson type money.

MITM's picture

Just when i thought I'd never feel worse than I did after last years NFCCG...

MITM's picture

Tired of saying next year next year absolutely sick and tired of it. Anything can happen from now until "next year", there is no guarantee that you or me will even be around to see what happens next year, sounds morbid but its the truth. So yea, ive just about had it with saying next year. 7 playoff losses under Mccarthy, 5 of them on the last play. Its not good enough anymore.

Oppy's picture

I love it when people bitch about losing a game on the last play. It's completely immaterial. You either win or you lose.

Would it make you feel better if the Packers were not in position to possibly win those games on the last play?

Stick with 7 playoff losses. I can see how that might bother you, but the "5 of them on the last play" makes no difference.

MITM's picture

I get your point but you know what my friend when it happens that often its not a coincidence its a PROBLEM.

Oppy's picture

Perhaps when a team is in position to possibly win a game that often, my friend, it is not a coincidence, its a SIGN OF A TEAM THAT IS NEVER OUT OF IT BECAUSE THEY CAN HANG WITH ANYONE.

Perspective, you know? That's why I'm saying it's immaterial.

The majority of the league would also say that losing 7 playoff games during your tenture also means you've been in the playoffs at least 7 times.

It is easy to lose track of the fact that almost 65% of the league doesn't get a playoff game in any given year, or that of the roughly 23% who do go to the playoffs, roughly 92% will lose a game.

Yeah, I know it doesn't make anyone feel any better.. However, I truly believe fans generally underestimate the factor of difficulty in reaching and winning a Superbowl.

Packer_Pete's picture

Very well said. I think what people also forget is that McCarthy still has won more playoff games than he lost. And if he gets in again and wins another one then he'll have tied both Lombardi and Holmgren. Well if he wins 2 he'll have the franchise record. Wonder what people would say then...

Tundraboy's picture

Winning percentage is more relevant, many more levels of postseason now . Like Micky Mantles record of 18 World Series home runs versus Post season records. An accomplishment yes but...

Dan Stodola's picture

Not more levels of playoffs now than Holmgren. Certainly different era altogether than when Lombardi coached. Some of the Packers NFL Championships even under Lombardi included only one or at most 2 playoff game including the Championship game.

Holmgren had a 9-5 record postseason for the Packers.
McCarthy has an 8-6 postseason record.

After next year it'll be 11-6! :)

Tundraboy's picture

Let's hope 11- 6.

Tundraboy's picture

Lombardi 9-1 and of course 9 straight wins.

EdsLaces's picture

Let's be real here people we didn't win last nites game, but we straight up lost the game last year against Sea.

pacman's picture

Question for the off season - are you confident that this coaching staff can take this team to the SB next year?

After last year, I would have said yes. Now, I don't think so.

D Ernesto's picture

Serious? This team needs more than Ted has draft picks. You name it, they need it. I'm talking about the marginal players who will not get you there. Marginal kills you.

Tundraboy's picture

I really don't know if MM can get them there without some more playmakers. I have lost faith in his ability to get through the adversity they have within games. He is great at getting them through the ups and downs of the season and rarely are they not ready for a game but the game within a game continues to elude him. More playmakers will lighten the teams load and give them greater margin for error.

GeorgiaCheesehead's picture

Hats off to the Pack. It was a very close game that we could have won if we had any number of things go our way. Team was prepared to play and overcame adversity after Cobb went down. I would have liked to see us go for the 2 PT conversion to win or lose with the ball in AR hands. How did FITZ get that open in OT? That's a head scratcher. Simply can't happen. Really like Janis and Abby. None of the so-called experts on NFLN, SIRIUS, or ESPN gave the Pack a chance in this game. Now let's go get a TE, ILB, and for crying out loud...we need a punter in the draft and/or Free agency. GO PACK GO!!

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I agree that Abby and Janis made favorable impressions but I don't agree with it meaning that GB doesn't need another OUTSIDE WR prospect. Last August we had Nelson, Cobb, Adams, and hopefuls in Monty, Abby and Janis. Everyone thought that was sufficient, betting heavily that Adams was the answer and that at least 1 or 2 of Monty, Abby and Janis would improve.

Adams failed. I still have hope, but I can't pencil him in as the #2 outside WR LIKE THE COACHES DID LAST YEAR. Going into next season, we have Cobb, Monty and Abby who can be expected to play slot WR well. At outside WR, we have Nelson, and candidates in Adams, Janis, and maybe Abby. [Nelson can play slot at an elite level, but can't be spared from the outside position.] The draft appears to be a down year for WRs and we might have to live with this situation, but if there is an outside WR in the 2nd or better the 3rd round that TT likes, he can afford to pass on that player but should give the WR a lot of consideration. Ideally, when 5 WRs are kept, you have 3 outside and 2 slot WRs. We have one proven outside guy.

AR likes Adams, and he likes Abby. I found it just a tad disturbing that Abby had 12 targets and just 4 receptions - looks a lot like the Adam's situation. I console myself that JJ was a nonentity with Peterson covering him, and that left just Abby, Janis and RR to toss it to, so maybe the favoritism I fear is not present. BTW, everyone in my house knew on that last play, 4th and 5, AR would throw it to JJ - at the least that JJ would be the first option. As it turned out, JJ was the only option.

WinUSA's picture

The Good: Abby & Janus. The Hail Mary.

The plane carrying the Packers didn't crash on the way back to Green Bay.

Everyone did give it their all.

The O Line!!!!!!!! Did you see that hole that Lacy had to run.

The Bad: What the hell was going on out there with number 11 in OT???

McCarthy's play calling in the 3rd/4th quarter. Sick of playing NOT to lose shit.

The Ugly

Lacy's run.... a blubbering, gasping, football player...that should have taken the damn thing to the house...I hated to see him on the sideline with that smile on his face....any other running back in the league with that convoy would have made it 6!

The coin toss...Really?

Mathews...where were the big plays? The guy was invisible AGAIN!

The luck the Packers have had in the playoffs... If it wouldn't be for bad luck...there would be NO luck what so ever...cmn...bouncing passes into receivers hands for TD.

Blind Mellon Chitlin, Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles for fricken refs.... worse play calling I have seen since the debacle in the Failed Mary Game.

Tundraboy's picture

Great points. Hardest to swallow is the playing not to lose. Happens at some point in every game to the point where you know that any missed opportunities, such as settling for field goals in the first half, will be even more costly.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Just got back from Bally's. Won my GB bet, $1600 up over all, & TOTALLY DISCUSSTED. (I) We needed that game, & should have had it. There's plenty of blame to go around. You can't play with a Make Shift Receiving core. You can't have Jordy Cobb & Adams on the sideline & expect to win with what's left.

The secondary played 99% a really good game, good enough to win, but in the final analysis, they can't Tackle, & they can't Catch. That was the difference between winning & losing. To their credit, they kept us in the game.

Say what you want about AR & his poor passing. He had a few, but for the most part he had No One to throw to. The Offense played Well, with what they had. AR should have another W, instead he has a Disappointing Loss , that should have been a Win. IMO, We were the better team, even with our injuries.

I predicted GB & Carolina in the NFCC game 10 weeks ago. I needed GB next week for the Big Money. Nothing but Rotten F#@kin" Bad Luck. When the Hell is that ever going to change for GB??

I'm TOTALLY DISCUSSTED & I imagine you guy's are too. I really felt 1000% GB was the SB CHAMPION this year. Hat's off to MM for getting us this far. As far as I'm concerned, He's a Great Coach.

Well, Nothing more to say. See You Next Year!! I have NO INTEREST anymore in this year.

LVT

ben's picture

yea, just bad luck.

again. Weird.

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