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After Further Review: Packers vs. Browns

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After Further Review: Packers vs. Browns

Ross will provide a few observations every Monday afternoon following a Packers game based on a few viewings of the condensed version of the game on NFL GamePass.  While this might not be the All-22 camera deep dive that might be more "educational", it should provide a conversation point for the rest of the week.

Someone has been wrong.  There's no question about that.  Gregg Rosenthal released a ranking of the NFL's starting quarterbacks that included Hundley the week after the Tampa game, ranking Hundley 31st, just one spot ahead of Jimmy Garrapolo who he deemed "too early to tell".  That would tell you that Hundley, according to Rosenthal is the worst starting quartberack in football. So, is Rosenthal wrong?   It doesn't seem like the worst starting quarterback in football could go 3-4 with a team that Colin Cowherd has said has no talent without Rodgers.  So is Cowherd wrong (yes)?  Is Rosenthal wrong (probably a little). 

The bottom line is that the Packers are an average football team without Rodgers.  Nothing less nothing more.  That has a lot to do with the rash of injuries they seemingly deal with every year and the fact that they constantly pick at the bottom of every draft becuase they usually win (a lot).  With that said, with Rodgers their an elite team when even moderately healthy.  How is that possible? He's literally the best player in the NFL.

Hundley's home/road performance splits continue to just boggle my mind.  

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (29) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

WinUSA's picture

December 11, 2017 at 10:12 am(edit)

I am afraid the train has left the station. The management team that made this organization great has been raided and our management has been decimated. McKenzie, Dorsey, Schneider, plus 3 great college scouts have all left. In it's place is a shell of an organization. Young Wolf by name, has been anointed as the candidate most likely to take his place. Ron Wolf was great, but nepotism often does NOT mean the offspring has the same savvy, instinct, courage, and knowledge as the father. Lombardi's son is a perfect example.

The Packers heartbeat is Aaron Rodgers, he by himself has shielded the Packer administration from a lot of hard criticism that in other organizations would be on the table.

Dom Capers, whether it is because of players provided, or his being out of touch with the personalities of this generation of football players and new today's offensive schemes should have been cut from this organization a long time ago. This is solely on Thompson shoulders. If management had an ounce of guts they would grab Leonard from the Badgers before he is stolen by another NFL brain trust.

To give Thompson some credit, he has been slotted annually in the worst draft position possible, but so has New England. The last time Thompson had a decent position to draft he got Raji and Mathews. The NFL parity scheme has not been a friend of the Packers.

After watching the Rams vs Eagles game it became so clear how far away the Packers are from really being a super bowl contender. To think that we have any shot this year or the next, or the next, is just wishful thinking and great marketing by the Packers.

Yes, beating the Browns gave Packer fans a weekend to rejoice, but come on it was the Browns for Pete's. sake. The Browns future in Dorsey's hands and their position in the draft will guarantee a bright future for that organization. A team on the rise.

The Packers are a team on the descent. Their star players are aging, management is questionable and the future I fear is going to be reminiscent of the 80's for this organization. Brace yourselves Packers faithful, without a hall of fame quarterback at the helm we will return to mediocrity at best.

I am a Packer fan and have not missed but a handful of games in over half a century. I will still watch til the day I die. But history has a way of repeating itself and unfortunately unless there is some drastic management changes I fear mediocrity it is here to stay for a while.

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Spud Rapids's picture

Once again someone uses the Patriots as a comparison negating the fact that if the only team you can compare the Packers too is the Patriots then you forget how successful the Packers are. The Patriots are the outlier in terms of sustained success and how can we say they aren't trash without Brady as you are so quick to point out Rodgers being the heartbeat of the team? You also called a team with a coach that has a 1-28 record on the rise and the Pack on the descent. You're homerism by calling for Leonhard who only has 2 years coaching experience is misguided. That is short term thinking and we don't know if he can sustain success. Also only the Packers have as long of a playoff streak as the Patriots, that's not mediocrity that's sustained success.

Finwiz's picture

The only thing I would add is the fact the Patriots managed to maintain success, arguably to a lesser degree, through some significant injuries to Brady, with Cassell and Garropollo. Not sure the transition has been as seamless with Hundley. That points to coaching when the drop off in talent doesn't translate to significantly diminished success on the field.

dobber's picture

Garoppolo has looked good with SF so far after having only a short time to really pick up their offense. Could be good coaching there and playing to what he does know, but it has to have something to do with the quality of the player, too.

I think the bottom line is that NE has a unique situation with a HC who is a good talent evaluator and sees not only how players fit into what they do, but also how they can tweak what they do when an opportunity (and a good player) presents itself. He takes others' lemons and makes lemonade. The dual HC/GM role has not turned out to be too big for the hoodie. It's a situation that we might not see repeated in our lifetimes.

croatpackfan's picture

I'm asking all of you. Can you compare how much Tom Brady's salary eats Patriots Salary cap in compare how much Aaron's eats Packers Salary cap...

Portland Mark's picture

I believe that Tom Brady takes less money than Rodgers or any other star quarterback. That gives the Patriots more CAP room. Hence, they have a better team. The Packers pay Rodgers and Mathews around 25% of their cap money. Seattle does the same with Wilson and Sherman. That's not working out too well for them either at this point.

Portland Mark's picture

I believe that Tom Brady takes less money than Rodgers or any other star quarterback. That gives the Patriots more CAP room. Hence, they have a better team. The Packers pay Rodgers and Mathews around 25% of their cap money. Seattle does the same with Wilson and Sherman. That's not working out too well for them either at this point.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Love the work you do here Ross. But...

"The bottom line is that the Packers are an average football team without Rodgers."

Average football teams don't need overtime to beat the Bucs and the Browns. They are undoubtedly Below Average without Rodgers.

Spud Rapids's picture

Terrible logic... by your logic the Steelers should have killed the Packers but they didn't so they aren't a super bowl caliber team, just the #1 seed in the AFC that's it

dobber's picture

Every game exists in microcosm. There's no transitivity in football.

Just win, baby...

fastmoving's picture

....and there is a heavy dose of luck/bad luck involved, too. who got the lucky bounces, the debatable calls, the drops, the turnovers. injuries

who built momentum out of that and makes the plays at the right time....................

when we beat the BEARS they just bad, but a couple of weeks later they trash the Bengals at there home........... you cant compare this stuff. If the Steelers beat the Patriots next week by more than 3 means that we are Superbowl favorits???

Doug Niemczynski's picture

That's because the steelers play the exact. ..exact. ...exact same defense as the Packers..So the Packer Offense sees this defense every day in practice.

dobber's picture

But the Packers schemes are outdated and predictable.

Since '61's picture

After further review our offense hopefully back in ARs hands this week can be scary good with the way Adams and Williams are playing in particular. Not to mention that AR will make much better use of Cobb and Jordy.

On the other side of the ball the defense still scares me. No pass rush, poor coverage and weak tackling are not positive factors for making stops especially against the better offensive teams that we are going to face over the next 3 weeks.

Good to see the Special Teams making some big plays over the last 2 weeks. Go Pack Go! Thanks, Since '61

lebowski's picture

"Every single weapon on the offense has seen a dramatic downtick in production after QB1 got hurt." I disagree, I think the run game has picked up quite a bit and could be a big benefit to the offense once Aaron straps it up again.

dobber's picture

Without a decent run game, I fear #12's return to action will be brief.

Ds300916's picture

Good thing we have not one, but two rookie running backs who have posted 100 yard games this season.

UmpireMark's picture

If, and only if, McCarthy stays with the run game in his playbook. We've seen with Rodgers, how quickly Mike strays from the run game.

sonomaca's picture

Hundley’s loses were to NO, Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. They’re a combined 34-18. If you count the Minnesota game, it’s a combined 44-21. These are good teams.

sonomaca's picture

BTW, the Pack have the 5th highest strength of schedule so far in 2017. Seattle has the 2nd softest schedule.

Mojo's picture

The Brownies lost a game that was well in hand when they inexplicably decided to play back on GB's receivers allowing Hundley to do what he does best. Throw short. Below is the scoring summary of their second TD:

1st and 10 at GB 25 (2:49 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Hundley pass short left to G.Allison to GB 34 for 9 yards (J.McCourty).

2nd and 1 at GB 34 (2:20 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Hundley pass short left to R.Cobb ran ob at GB 39 for 5 yards. Cleveland challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld. The ruling on the field stands. (Timeout #2.)

1st and 10 at GB 39 (2:06 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Hundley pass short right to G.Allison to GB 48 for 9 yards (J.McCourty).

2nd and 1 at GB 48 (1:40 - 3rd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Hundley pass incomplete short right to J.Nelson (M.Jordan).

3rd and 1 at GB 48 (1:36 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Hundley pass short middle to L.Kendricks to CLV 47 for 5 yards (D.Kindred).

1st and 10 at CLE 47 (1:14 - 3rd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Hundley pass short right to L.Kendricks to CLV 41 for 6 yards (J.Burgess Jr.).

2nd and 4 at CLE 41 (0:44 - 3rd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Hundley pass short middle to D.Adams to CLV 26 for 15 yards (M.Jordan).

1st and 10 at CLE 26 (0:03 - 3rd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Hundley pass short left to D.Adams to CLV 17 for 9 yards (K.Nacua).

END QUARTER 3

2nd and 1 at CLE 17 (15:00 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Hundley pass short left to J.Williams to CLV 13 for 4 yards (K.Nacua).

1st and 10 at CLE 13 (14:25 - 4th) J.Williams left guard to CLV 1 for 12 yards (D.Kindred; J.Schobert).
1st and Goal at CLE 1

(13:59 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Williams left guard to CLV 1 for no gain (N.Orchard; T.Coley).

2nd and Goal at CLE 1
(13:30 - 4th) J.Williams right guard to CLV 1 for no gain (J.Schobert).

3rd and Goal at CLE 1
(12:50 - 4th) Jamaal Williams 1 Yard Rush M.Crosby extra point is GOOD, Center-B.Goode, Holder-J.Vogel.

That drive got GB right back into the games with nearly a quarter left to play. Every pass was a about 3 yards and in from the LOS, mostly out of the shotgun. Outside of the lob on the broken play to Williams on the opening drive, I can't remember Hundley completing a pass more than ten yards downfield.

Almost all of Hundleys passing yards came on YAC. And you could see what he was going to do time and again, yet the Brownies refused to adjust.

Instead of pressing GB's receivers and forcing longer passes from a QB who struggles with strength and accuracy, Cleveland does the exact opposite allowing GB to march down the field with passes no more than three yards out. At that point I expect GB to come back and win.

Hundleys stats look great, but so much of it was gifted to him by the Cleveland coaches.

Slim11's picture

I was at the game and your description above is right on target. So, too, is your analysis.

In this game, and others, I've noticed Hundley gets the ball out much faster when a short throw is the play called. If a longer pass is required, he doesn't/can't give the play enough time to develop. Is that due to porous pass protection? An inability for the WRs to get quick separation? Hundley unable or unwilling to go through all his reads? It could be a combination of all three.

If Rodgers is back against Carolina, there should be a different game plan. The running game is enough of a threat for Rodgers to have an excellent game if he plays.

Finwiz's picture

I was explaining rather loudly to the wife that they should have gone to that offense right away, the quick outs and slants. Those are guaranteed 4-5 yard plays if you practice, execute and the timing is right. That inside slant to Devonte or Jordy is virtually incapable of being defended if it's run properly and the pass comes out in time. The receiver shields the defender with his body, and the pass is into the numbers or below. It can't be defended. I just don't get what took them so long to figure that out? My guess is they are arrogant up in GB and still think they can play the same way with Hundley as they do with Rodgers, especially against a team like the Browns. Arrogance will get the better of the GB coaching staff in the end.

Tarynfor12's picture

This requires watching the game over from a pure analysis aspect. It seems many just rather exclaim about a play that was successful and be happy than to understand where a problem lies ahead in a coming game.
The plays that aided the victory Sunday likely wouldn't have gotten a chance to be against better. The odds of that Davis return happening without a penalty are ridiculous but as many bark...it was the Browns.
I'll be watching again for the 4th time along with the Panther game vs the Vikes.

Finwiz's picture

That tackle by Randall on that wide run against the stiff-arm was a thing of beauty. Lot's of toughness and aggression , taking it to the offensive player in that situation. That play alone says a lot about how far 23 has come.

Coldworld's picture

In my view, the best thing in this game defensively was the decision after the first drive to scrap the zone and play press. Randall did really well thereafter and, although he will be missing now, that is known to be house’s strong suit. One thing I do not get is why we play so much zone. We seem to me to have sucked at zone coverage for years and to draft for press types, at least on the perimeter. If there is a question I would like to ask Capers that is it

Coldworld's picture

In my view, the best thing in this game defensively was the decision after the first drive to scrap the zone and play press. Randall did really well thereafter and, although he will be missing now, that is known to be house’s strong suit. One thing I do not get is why we play so much zone. We seem to me to have sucked at zone coverage for years and to draft for press types, at least on the perimeter. If there is a question I would like to ask Capers that is it

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

In the 4th video clip, note how CM3 busts his butt to try to get into coverage position, and watch Dix next to CM3 apparently covering the sideline.

billybobton's picture

Any talk about salary cap between Rodgers current contract and any other player is merely a distraction until the packers salary cap means they have to let someone go they want or can't afford to bring someone in

that is not the issue in green bay
it is a general manager who mis evaluates talent (draft and free agent) then misses the going rate and does not bother to offer players who could make impacts on the field (provided the dip stick coach would play them in the correct position)

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