5 Things to Watch in Packers at Giants: Will Joe Barry Tweak His Plan?

Barry must not give Tommy DeVito too much respect on Monday night.

Will Joe Barry tweak his game plan?

Versus the Chiefs last week, the appeal of Barry’s style of defense was evident. The “bend, but don’t break” mantra came to fruition, as Patrick Mahomes and company stalled in the red zone on multiple occasions and were stopped just often enough for the Packers to come out with a win.

When Green Bay’s defense manages to limit explosive plays and keep everything in front of them, they have success. That strategy arguably works better against stronger offenses, who can become impatient and make mistakes.

The problem is that Barry often treats every quarterback in the league like they are Mahomes, refusing to come out of his two-high shell and allowing offenses who primarily want to run the ball to do just that, churning out long drives in the process.

This was most glaringly on display in Pittsburgh earlier this season, and Barry must learn from that game and adjust his game plan this week. Tommy DeVito is not a real NFL quarterback, and New York will be looking to run their offense through Saquon Barkley.

The Packers rightly go into Monday night as strong favorites, and the only way the Giants can hang around is with long drives featuring a heavy dose of Barkley. Does Barry have the presence of mind to make the adjustment and make DeVito beat him?

Handle the blitz

New York’s defense, led by coordinator Don ‘Wink’ Martindale, is second in the NFL in blitz percentage at 41%, which could present a challenge for a young quarterback in Jordan Love, and his offensive line.

Fortunately, the Packers have recent experience against a heavy blitz team, having no trouble with the Chiefs last week, who rank fifth in blitz rate. They have also faced the first-ranked Vikings and fourth-ranked Steelers this season.

Those units posed more of a problem for Love, but he has taken huge strides over the last month, and the Giants’ defense is not especially effective despite the extra bodies they tend to bring, ranking 21st in pressure percentage.

If Love and his offensive line can diagnose and pick up the blitzes Martindale sends, they should be able to have their way with the Giants defense.

Dexter Lawrence

While Kayvon Thibodeaux is capable of causing problems on his day, Lawrence is the real threat up front for New York.

The defensive tackle missed week 12 with a hamstring injury and was limited in practice all this week.

After Lawrence, the drop-off in quality to the Giants defensive line is steep, and whether the former Clemson man is able to suit up on Monday could singlehandedly dictate how effective the Packers can be in the run game.

Green Bay’s pass rush

The Packers should have an advantage up front on both sides of the ball this week, as the Giants’ offensive line is not much to shout about either.

Andrew Thomas is a strong left tackle, but the rest of New York’s projected offensive line rank as follows, according to PFF:

  • LG - Justin Pugh: 77th of 83 (ranked as a tackle)
  • C- Michael Schmitz: 34th of 39
  • RG- Ben Bredeson: 70th of 76
  • RT- Tyre Phillips: 67th of 83

Daniel Jones did not help their cause, but the Giants have allowed 69 sacks, which is 11 more than any other NFL team, ad are also bottom of the league in pressure rate allowed. Rashan Gary and the Packers’ defense line will be looking forward to Monday night.

Eric Stokes

Stokes was a full participant in all three practices this week, signaling a return from injured reserve after a string of frustrating injuries, most recently a hamstring issue.

The 2021 first-round pick has not played a defensive snap in 13 months, but if he is good to go this week, he will be the most senior member of Green Bay’s cornerback group and may be immediately thrust into a prominent role as a result.

Inexperienced corners Carrington Valentine and Corey Ballentine have acquitted themselves admirably alongside Keisean Nixon, but the Packers could use an injection of talent on the perimeter.

There may be some rust for Stokes as he gets back on the field after such a long absence, but the Packers need him to rediscover the form he showed during his rookie season, with a decision over his fifth-year option looming.

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Mark Oldacres is a sports writer from Birmingham, England and a Green Bay Packers fan. You can follow him on twitter at @MarkOldacres

7 points
 

Comments (70)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
T7Steve's picture

December 11, 2023 at 07:46 am

Win the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball and it will wipe the reason to worry about Berry away.

That will be hard to do if he only lets one or two D-linemen play at a time.

If we know, he and MLF must, right?

7 points
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NickPerry's picture

December 11, 2023 at 07:54 am

"Barry often treats every quarterback in the league like they are Mahomes, refusing to come out of his two-high shell and allowing offenses who primarily want to run the ball to do just that, churning out long drives in the process."

There's absolutely NO REASON for Barry to play that way tonight. First and foremost stop Barkley. It really isn't rocket science although at times I think Barry treats it as such. Just play defense and don't get fancy or cute. I don't want to have a meltdown tonight and letting Barkley run wild would do just that.

I'm more concerned to be honest with Meyers and Runyan matched up with Lawrence inside. That dude is the real deal. Just keep doing what you have on offense. Keep everybody involved and keep using all the motion and misdirection. And for the love of God, please TAKE the ball if you can to open the game.

Packers 27 Giants 13....GPG!

10 points
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T7Steve's picture

December 11, 2023 at 08:27 am

"I don't want to have a meltdown tonight and letting Barkley run wild would do just that."

We can get away with it if they let him run like OJ did when he played with the Bills.

They just can't let him run like OJ when he was running from the LAPD and CHP,

0 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

December 11, 2023 at 10:13 am

so your saying that a 5 mph chase will eat too much clock and we won't be able to recover?

3 points
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T7Steve's picture

December 11, 2023 at 10:26 am

Yes. He ran without stopping for hours.

Guess I'm not as humorous/sarcastic as I thought. Shouldn't joke and bring up horrible history, I guess.

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Bitternotsour's picture

December 11, 2023 at 03:17 pm

i thought it funny. but, i'm an awful person, so that needs to be taken into consideration.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 11, 2023 at 10:56 am

White Broncos aren't allowed on the field ;)

1 points
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dobber's picture

December 11, 2023 at 08:47 am

Packers need to bring the same intensity level they brought the last couple weeks every week against every opponent. They've been playing hard and limiting their mistakes, which they struggled with earlier in the season. All these have made this stretch of the season far more fun!

"I'm more concerned to be honest with Meyers and Runyan matched up with Lawrence inside."

Is Lawrence better than Jones or Donald? He's a little different kind of player, but if the IOL is on their game, the Packers OL has shown they can handle a guy like him. The last couple weeks, it was as much the secondary players on the defensive fronts that had days against the Packers (Sebastian-Day, etc.) while they focused on the heavy hitter.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 11, 2023 at 01:40 pm

It will depend if they want to Win. See if they can sustain the desire to excel. See if they have the mental discipline to execute the plays w/out petty mistakes and miscues. I feel better with McDuffie patrolling the inside. Maybe he goes three safety sets to monitor Barkley and bring some heat. ??

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 11, 2023 at 08:00 am

I would not say we had no trouble against the blitz versus the Chiefs. For whatever reason, perhaps injuries to their two top ILBs the Chiefs use a lot in that role, the Chiefs really didn’t do much till the second half. We scored most of our points before that. Yes, we didn’t give up many sacks (one) but our O didn’t retain its rhythm.

The Giants May rush a lot, but they haven’t been very successful at it. Only 2 teams had less sacks going in to this weekend. They just don’t have much talent apart from Thibodeaux, who has 11 out of 21 total. A healthy Lawrence adds to that, but he’s unlikely to be at his peak if he plays. Like the Chiefs in approach, but without Jones to help. If we can’t keep a good pocket for Love, then questions should rightly be asked of our OL more pointedly than recently.

DeVito is fairly mobile. He does have a decent arm, but his processing is slow to date. They played a Washington team in disarray and managed to score, but the depth of pass was negligible. Simple, fast releases to get the ball out as soon as possible and still surrendering sacks at a crazy rate if that was prevented.

They are running and passing into the same area, very similar to the LaFleur O early last year. The one that got us nowhere and had teams packing the first ten yards, allowing them to shut down the run and attack the QB. Not a good recipe when their best weapon is a RB and a viscous circle of stalled drives and sacks.

If we play as we have, we will have singularly failed to learn lessons from our own struggles and from what has been successful for other opponents of the Giants.

Force DeVito to pass and force him to have to do so deeper and in longer developing plays behind that sieve of an OL. He’s not vastly accurate at longer range either and his receivers aren’t great. Win in the first 10 yards and we may have turnovers from DBs as well as sacks. Play light and soft and we maximize their chances on the ground and through the air.

This is a game where an extra big body could really help. Saquon likes to run between the tackles and is good enough to win doing it. He’s 230 plus pounds, it’s asking a lot of 2 big men to hold up throughout a game, especially if we let them sustain long slow drives that they have been relying on, even if they don’t score early. They will try to grind us down.

3 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 11, 2023 at 11:07 am

Call up #99 J Ford! It is time. Do not underestimate Barkley.

"If we play as we have, we will have singularly failed to learn lessons from our own struggles and from what has been successful for other opponents of the Giants."

JB. There is no "we." Everybody else knows this. Most of us knew this last year. Even MLF was crying about it earlier this season. Our D line certainly knows this!

If JB still refuses to learn this and it results in a loss he should (finally) be canned immediately. If GB wins despite his stubbornness there are lingering problems. If he adjusts reasonably and it's a win? Maybe he actually learned, but I'm not holding my breath.

1 points
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The_Justicar's picture

December 11, 2023 at 07:16 pm

No chance we employ an additional big on the d line coldworld. Will stay in our nickel as usual.
Regardless of opponent,

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HawkPacker's picture

December 11, 2023 at 08:02 am

Yes, we should beat the Giants but in the NFL, anything can happen.

If we can continue to eliminate turnovers and have minimal penalties then we should be victorious!

3 points
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dobber's picture

December 11, 2023 at 09:08 am

"Yes, we should beat the Giants but in the NFL, anything can happen."

I think this is the key understanding.

We've seen two very different Packers teams this season--the one that played the first couple games and the last 3 has been good. Playing mostly on schedule offensively, showing aggression on defense and making plays. Limiting mistakes. Then there's the listless team that struggled to score or play 60 minutes of football through the middle portion of the schedule.

Which team shows tonight?

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 11, 2023 at 09:46 am

We’ve seen a different team recently from early, but we haven’t yet seen wild swings from game to game. I suppose that could start now we’ve hit high notes, but I don’t see that happening tonight against this team unless…

The one thing that scares me is Barry. While the Giants have had less yards per play than any team under DiVito, they do have two fast WRs. Darius Slayton and Jalin Hyatt. Slayton caught a 40-yard touchdown against Washington, while Hyatt had his first career 100-yard receiving game against New England.

That tells you about the rest of their plays being incredibly short. The nearest O I can parallel with it is LaFleurs’ last year, everything within 5 yards of scrimmage and then a long bomb. This has been Barry’s kryptonite. He plays to avoid exactly these type of plays. If he does that opens up Barkley, will keep our D on the field and the O off.

In reality, neither WR has a great catch rate and DiVito isn’t accurate. Moreover, those teams didn’t have good secondaries or out rush potential. However, I fear Barry will fudge stopping Barclay and play to prevent those deep plays. That’s the only way I see us losing this bar a total coaching meltdown as in London.

Which Barry will we get maybe the more apt question.

1 points
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mnbadger's picture

December 11, 2023 at 12:30 pm

I'm with you on the "if's" Hawk, for a young team, those IF's loom large.
That's why I'm calling for victory, though narrow:
Pack 20 - little people 16.
GPG!

1 points
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HawkPacker's picture

December 11, 2023 at 08:04 am

I just think that our team is too young and it is still really too early in the season to know how these guys will respond. Just not enough history.

I will take a guarded approach to watching this game. I will hope for a victory but will still be satisfied if they just continue their upward trajectory.

Come on Packers, keep playing well!

9 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

December 11, 2023 at 08:12 am

He might not tweak his PLAN, but there is a good chance he’ll tweak THE FANS.

8 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

December 11, 2023 at 08:21 am

Fact.

I don't think we can rule out Joe twerking when he's dialing up those *craaaaazy* blitzes. All that energy needs to be released, you know?

2 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

December 11, 2023 at 09:19 am

you have to inspire your troops. whatever it takes. his milkshake brings all the dogs to the yard, dogs to the yard...

3 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

December 11, 2023 at 09:23 am

I think we can all relate.
😉

3 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

December 11, 2023 at 05:53 pm

OR
He might have misunderstood when MLF said, “Let’s get TO WORK!”

1 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

December 11, 2023 at 06:02 pm

Good call. Most people wait at least 10 years too long before they accept they may have a hearing loss, and get an exam by an audiologist or licensed hearing aid professional.

0 points
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jont's picture

December 11, 2023 at 08:19 am

Writing something positive about the Packer defense is heresy on CHTV. The best thing one is allowed say is that Joe Barry doesn't have a man bun. Yet.

Undaunted: this defense is not as bad as many people believe.

Over the past 17 games the D has given up an average of only 19.5 points per game. For a season, this puts them between #3 and #8 in the league over the past ten years.

I know about the rushing yards given up and the infuriating lapses, but this is not a weak defense.

The defense starts up front.

"... the Packers defense recorded three red zone sacks against Mahomes and Goff was under duress on a whopping 52 percent of his dropbacks, according to PFF, with Justin Herbert facing pressure on almost 40 percent of his snaps. For some context around those percentages, the top 10 most pressured quarterbacks in football this season have all been under pressure at least 40 percent of the time.

"... the interior is where the Packers have seen the greatest pass rush presence during that span, with Kenny Clark, Karl Brooks, and Devonte Wyatt all ranking in the top 30 out of 88 eligible defensive linemen in pass-rush win rate. Clark also ranks second in total pressures.

"The Packers defense has gone from ranking in the bottom third of the league in pressure rate to currently sitting at 11th overall11th overall."

https://sports.yahoo.com/packers-pass-rush-opportunity-control-191350290...

3 points
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HawkPacker's picture

December 11, 2023 at 08:26 am

jont, are you Leatherhead in sheeps clothing?

6 points
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Leatherhead's picture

December 11, 2023 at 06:16 pm

No, he's simply quoting facts. Bashing Barry is like a meme around here, kind of like saying "How Bout Them Cowboys" in Texas. It's supposed to go unchallenged.

Nobody needs to take my word for it. Go to this link and see for yourself. Look at what the Packers have done on defense under Barry over the last three years. Teams almost never get to 30 and half the time they don't get past 20 or 21. It's called keeping the game close so your offense has a chance.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/BarrJo0.htm

-1 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

December 11, 2023 at 09:16 am

Respect where respect is due. I think a lot of people here have PTSD regarding past failures, but when the D does it's job, it needs to be acknowledged.

As many people have noted, the offense needs to help the D. If the offense doesn't score, eat clock, and win field position, the defense suffers mightily. That's the dynamic in NY with the Giants - they're bad on offense which makes their defense worse. Weird how that works, right?

5 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

December 11, 2023 at 10:34 am

Another way to eat clock, win field position and score is for the D to get off the field and let the O do those things.

Barry's D rarely does that.

Hope springs eternal in the heart of a Packer fan. I have a lot of respect for the Packer player talent. A LOT. If this talent is best suited to play endless chunk prevent, zone and light boxes, MLF should agree this is how his defense should play.

If MLF sees skills and strengths that can be deployed to be more effective and efficient
to get 3 and outs, for a GIVEN opponent, MLF should direct his D coaches to make it so.

If not, pray for turnovers and timely sacks...where they are 27th and 23rd respectively. I just believe it is a dangerous way to play NFL defense.

A far less talented D is carrying the Ugly Purple right now under Flores (who could have been in GB). They won last night 3-0. :-((

2 points
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Leatherhead's picture

December 11, 2023 at 06:21 pm

LP....it's not make it take it, it's alternating possessions. Who has it the longest is irrelevant....it's who does most with it. Whether you 3 and out a team or they have a long, time consuming possession that results in 0 points doesn't matter. Similarly, a 7 minute, 12 play drive counts the same as a 3 play drive if it gets to the endzone. I like long, quick TDs, but I also like giving the defense a few minutes to collect themselves before putting them back on the field.

3 and outs are nice. They are. But the offense has to cooperate in order to do that. A pro offense with a decent QB isn't going to go 3 and out very many times in a game.

-1 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 11, 2023 at 11:17 am

Jont,

our defensive players are strong! Especially up front.

JB has the unit as a whole underperforming. GB was never behind in these last two games, and JB does deserve credit for a winning strategy when you're ahead.

That's not enough to be a DC. Neither has he done anything that even might stop Barkley from winning the game, if they were to choose to try to win that way.

Hang 70 points on them!

2 points
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Lphill's picture

December 11, 2023 at 08:52 am

I read on another site Quay Walker out can anyone confirm?

0 points
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dobber's picture

December 11, 2023 at 09:10 am

Listed as doubtful.

2 points
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GregC's picture

December 11, 2023 at 09:39 am

And the Packers haven't played a player who was listed as doubtful since 2019.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 11, 2023 at 09:51 am

It’s quite possible, in this particular game, that having McDuffie and his ability to shed blocks to fill holes may be more important. Im not one down on Walker, but against a Barkley led O, it might have plusses.

2 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 11, 2023 at 11:29 am

Indeed, McDuffie plays the run aggressively, attacking the LoS. I've seen Quay do that, just not as often. If he learned it from #58 or 59, I can't say. 58 seemed to play better with 59 than with 7 earlier in the season. Even if that's not still true, the two play well together.

Hopefully no more injuries of course, but at ILB we have #45 Wilson and 54 Welch who I know nothing about, + 3 on the PS.

0 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

December 11, 2023 at 09:05 am

I trust Love and his receivers to continue to improve and give MLF more confidence to build game plans around the given opponent.

Giants D is not good, but are better at pass vs run defense. So run the ball early, right?

I don't think so. A heavier dose of passing to open the game with the Packers' ascending passing attack will get the Giants on their heels... then pound them more on the ground once the pass is moving the ball.

I don't trust Barry to trust the skills of his talented players to build a customized Giants game plan. He's mostly a one trick pony to prevent the chunk plays with heavy zone in mostly nickel/dime/light boxes and in trade for long drives to the red zone and hope for a timely sack or a turnover.

It would be fine surprise to see the Packers pressure with the front 7 and trust his pass rush and DBs. Play with 3 DL early and often. They have the big men to do it and the Edge guys can wreck havoc.

Barry's defense is designed to play with a lead...not to shut down offenses. And for a D that relies on T/O's, they aren't getting many this year. Instead, just bring the pressure, man!

3 points
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TxFred's picture

December 11, 2023 at 09:36 am

Pack needs to play at the same level & intensity of the last game. Keep the "take no prisoners" attitude.
All 3 phases defense, offense & ST's. Compliment each other. Roll NY & move on!!
GPG!!!!

2 points
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GregC's picture

December 11, 2023 at 09:41 am

All solid points in the article except the one about Stokes. I doubt that he will play at all on defense. Probably just special teams until (or if) he can work his way back into game shape.

2 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

December 11, 2023 at 10:46 am

And I think he was re-injured on STs during his last attempt to play, wasn't he?

Some Packers are just snake bit this season...little painful coiled snakes striking key players we can really use right now. AJ, Musgrave, Stokes, Alexander, Watson, Savage (although Owens is playing some aggressive, productive box safety...and I think Johnson climbing toward his high ceiling).

At least the trenches are staying on the field. Starts there.

1 points
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GregC's picture

December 11, 2023 at 12:18 pm

Both first-round draft pick CBs have been mostly out of commission this year, and Rasul Douglas was traded away. They are rolling with a seventh-round pick and an undrafted player at those positions, but somehow the defense is holding up well. That's really pretty remarkable when you think about it.

2 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 11, 2023 at 02:07 pm

See how long the luck holds out? Heavier fronts and bring the pressure, Barry. Be proactive, not reactive, reading the play while it runs past them. The One picks will have to show up.

1 points
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GregC's picture

December 11, 2023 at 02:21 pm

Heavier fronts would put more pressure on the young CBs, as they would have less help in coverage. Not sure this is the way to go.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 11, 2023 at 02:31 pm

They were playing man at the end of the K.C. game. Valentine played man against the 'Bama WRs during SEC play. Ballentine is a 5 yr veteran. Savage, Ford and Owens are veterans. They need to perform. Get the greenhorn QB thinking and down on the turf. We do not want to see a repeat of last season' s farce watching Zappe, or Wilson keep their offenses on the field moving the chains.

2 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 11, 2023 at 11:35 am

I'd be surprised if Stokes is not in game shape, he looked great on 8/1, but I'd also be surprised to see him get many snaps. So whether he's limited to ST only or not, I don't think it'll be a big deal for anything other than testing his current abilities and plotting a trajectory.

The team starting to get it together now is GREAT timing! The rest of the division is collapsing, and currently 3 NFC north teams are in playoff positions anyway. What a strange season ...

GPG

0 points
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CanPackFan's picture

December 11, 2023 at 09:55 am

I agree with most points of this article - that Barry is the X factor in this game. I HATE his soft, containment approach which seems to work best when we have a lead. And I am absolutely not sure he is capable of changing his approach even with a green QB. But please Joe Barry, surprise us. Play with a tight box and concentrate on stopping Barkley early. Blitz and get some pressure on this QB in passing situations.

Outside of that, I am not sure I would throw Stokes into the fray on every defensive down. He will have rust, and that should be expected...

4 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 11, 2023 at 11:38 am

No way will Stokes see every down. How much they give him I won't predict, other than it will be a light workload. Not only is he too valuable to squander, his replacements have been playing well and need to continue. 4 out of 5 games being "easy" is a good time to get him ready for a playoff run. Hopefully some other players add to that list ...

-1 points
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J-Rome's picture

December 11, 2023 at 10:14 am

I think Barry's preferred defense is meant to compliment an offense that can score points early. That way he can let them bleed the clock with the run because thats to our advantage. Its not a good strategy if you're playing from behind. I think at the beginning of the game if they have a good plan to stop Barkley and can force punts and build a small lead, this should be an easy game. If Barkley goes off its going to be a fight all night long because stopping him isn't going to get easier later in the game. They need to set the tone early.

4 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 11, 2023 at 02:16 pm

So, do not play nickel D to start the Game, or let a Greenhorn dice up a soft zone, hoping he makes a mistake?

0 points
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Leatherhead's picture

December 11, 2023 at 10:23 am

I think the defense will continue to adhere to the same core philosophy that we have for the last 3 seasons under Barry:

1) Since it's a passing league, pass defense is the priority. Pass defense starts with guys who can cover.
2) Deny the big strike downfield by playing your safeties back.
3) Apply consistent edge pressure on the QB with a fresh rotation of guys and try to force the QB to throw before he's 100% ready.

At this site,people focus on the rush defense because it's one of the useful tools for bashing the defense.. Currently, we're surrendering 4.5 yards/rush, which is better than KC, Buffalo, Cincinnati and Denver....all teams with winning records. Meanwhile, the best rushing defenses.....the teams that are really stuffing the run....include teams like NE and the Bears.

But it is points that decide games, and the majority of points that are scored in the NFL come through the air, not on the ground. The majority of big "chunk" plays come through the air. And so the Packers have decided that they're willing to sacrifice an extra 0.4 yards per rush to try to keep that from happening. They play off, keep the play in front of them, and will give up 8 yard completions to stop those 55 yard completions.

It's annoying to a lot of people, apparently, that the Packers do this. They would prefer that the Packers take a pass defender off the field, and replace them with a heavy run defender. This would probably improve the run defense, but it would also diminish the pass defense, and teams would throw more passes against us, which would invariably result in more chunk plays and more points against us.''

The best way to improve the rush defense is to apply enough offensive pressure (points) that our opponent doesn't feel they have the luxury of just running the ball for 4.5 yards a crack.....they have to try to throw it against a better than average pass defense.

I know it maddening to have teams grind it down the field, but it's equally maddening to watch opposing WRs have big days against you. Remember the season opener against Minnesota in 2022? Jefferson caught like 30 zillion passes against us.

It's points. It always has been, and it always will be, the purpose of defense. Not the other minutiae that doesn't even correlate with going to the playoffs very well, but plain old points. And who are the toughest defenses to score against in the NFL right now? SF, Ravens, Cowboys, Chiefs,Vikings, Bills, Steelers. That's the top 7, and those are the better defenses in the league. Not Chicago, not NE, even though they're really good at stuffing the run.

2 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

December 11, 2023 at 11:08 am

I will always believe the best NFL defenses are coached by DC's who develop game plans to STOP a given opponent with the objective to get 3 and outs.

Play complimentary football and put the O back on the field to SCORE POINTs...especially when you have talent at all 3 levels that can do this, as I believe the Packers possess.

Joe Barry believes his tunnel vision of anti chunk play focus with zone/nickle/dime/light boxes and give up yards during the opponents trip to the Red Zone and get a sack or a T/O is how he must attack every foe.

It can work even when you give up 4 length of field drives like they did last week...FG, FG, TD, TD (saved by 2 timely sacks) and stopping another drive with a great INT by Nixon. Then get a non call pass interference call at the goal line. Sure it can work.

In the NFL, it rarely does consistently...especially in the playoffs.

Appreciate your comments, LH. We will just agree to disagree on Joe Barry.

6 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 11, 2023 at 11:53 am

The only way to win 🏅 in this league is to be able to adjust to matchups. Even the most brilliant passing Ds have to be able to handle a run heavy offense, and vice versa.

It’s a false standard to say it’s ok merely to stop one, if you are good enough in season, that may get you to the playoffs, but when it’s win it out you don’t have that luxury. If you can’t do it in season then the chances of it miraculously being realized in the post season are tiny. That’s without addressing teams that can do both pretty well. Good teams typically can.

If we go against teams ignoring their strengths then we are inviting an up hill battle. Too often that’s exactly what we’ve done under Barry and before too. Yes, we can maybe win enough over the next few games that a win doesn’t matter, but is that good coaching or should we not try to take away the Giants strengths? It is pure Hubris to say that we don’t need to put the best D out there we can in every game and for that opponent.

Hopefully we will, but this argument that our D is only set up to protect leads and that that is somehow acceptable is as empty as they come. Unless your ceiling is squeaking into the playoffs in this but also future years. In a year with a young O like this one, it’s even more farcical if true. No, it’s mere excusatory clap trap designed to make its proponents feel better about the status quo. It doesn’t stand up to history or reason. Hopefully it is also a pure fan fiction and Barry will prove that tonight. Hopefully …

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Leatherhead's picture

December 11, 2023 at 02:46 pm

It's not set up to protect leads; it's set up to prevent points, most of which come through the air.

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jannes bjornson's picture

December 11, 2023 at 07:01 pm

Steelers, 205 yards rushing, Loss
Falcons 211 yards rushing Loss
Lions 211 yards rushing Loss
Broncos 147 yards rushing Loss

A pattern language? I'm sensing a correlation of stopping the run, generally, enhances the probability of winning.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 11, 2023 at 11:45 am

.4 yards per rush is not a problem. Barkley getting at least 4 yards every time he runs IS, because they'll get first downs at will and score on every possession. Nobody has played us that way, YET. Both Lions and Chiefs could've beaten us that way, but they didn't try. NY might not try either; they might give us ints and lose that way.

If Barkley can't do that, the chances of this go up meaningfully. Good defenses stop the opponent.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 11, 2023 at 12:52 pm

Okay, here I go again.

Saquon Barkley averages 4.2 yards/carry, and 4.2 yards per target.
The Giants QBs this year average 6.2 yards per pass ATTEMPT.

The worst teams in the league against the rush average over 4.6 yards per rush, still well below what backup QBs average per attempt.

""Good defenses stop the opponent."""

From scoring very many points. FIFY.

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crayzpackfan's picture

December 11, 2023 at 10:42 am

Since it is my 54th birthday today, I just want a low stress beat down of the Giants tonight for my gift this year. GPG!!

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LambeauPlain's picture

December 11, 2023 at 11:16 am

Happy Birthday! May you have many more trips around the sun. Will you be able to wait to blow out those candles on your cake until after the Packers victory?

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 11, 2023 at 11:50 am

"Low stress beatdown"

I want a HIGH stress beatdown, lol. One that stresses the rest of the league, striking FEAR into their hearts at the prospect of having to face the Packers! Moidalize da bums. Hang 70 points on 'em.

AGNFB GPG!!

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jannes bjornson's picture

December 11, 2023 at 02:22 pm

See how the stressors fair w/out Watson making Plays. I would hope we see a heavy dose of the TEs. Kraft should be a featured player this game. Playoff fever and the Games get more intense. Then again, watching the tackling in yesterday's games left a guy wondering?

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psugbp's picture

December 11, 2023 at 11:00 am

Bottom 16 in rushing yards allowed per game, 7 teams are top 11 in points per game. Bottom 16 in passing yards allowed per game, 1 team in top 11. Maybe Joe Barry knows more about defense than most on here think.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 11, 2023 at 11:53 am

Statistics don't account for situational football.

Maybe the situation tonight is they try to win on Devito's arm? If so, we're in pretty good shape. It's foreseeable that they might not do that and Barkley features prominently; that's a situation JB has shown 0 inclination to address, and beat us last season.

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psugbp's picture

December 11, 2023 at 12:34 pm

Only important statistic is points, passing yards, equate to points at a much higher rate than rushing yards.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 11, 2023 at 01:00 pm

PSUGBP!!!!!! Where have you been all my life!!! I've been howling in the wilderness that it's about points, and you score more points passing than running. But so far, it's been a lone voice.

If you look at defense from a Macro perspective, you'd want the fewest passes thrown against you as possible. If you "stuff the run", it only encourages people to throw more. The more a team throws against you, the more yards and points you will inevitably surrender.

Chicago and NE stuff that run, but they still get scored on plenty.

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Coldworld's picture

December 11, 2023 at 04:23 pm

We are 30th in rush yards allowed per game, so not so rosy. We are similarly poor in terms of yards per carry.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 11, 2023 at 06:25 pm

What is the correlation between rushing yards/game, or yards/attempt, and winning games and making the playoffs???

It doesn't look that great to me. Are Chicago and NE making the playoffs? Do they have top defenses by points? They don't. You can check it further if you're inclined, but I think these mini stats aren't nearly as important as the overall goal of keeping teams out of the end zone. Which we're actually pretty good at.

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Minniman's picture

December 11, 2023 at 01:24 pm

Blitz counter:

Almost every time spags blitzed last week, Love picked it up and attacked the blitzers space - just like Brady won SB's on - with 2 weeks of this (Lions Glenn and Chiefs Spagniolo), Lawrence being a bit banged up and the GB OL getting better, this could really backfire on the G-men.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 11, 2023 at 02:54 pm

The Tuesday Morning QB, Greg Easterbrook, included "Stop Me Before I Blitz Again" in his weekly observations. Long story short, he was very much of the opinion that blitzing hurt the defense more than the offense, on average. Good QBs just burned the blitz at a high rate. In the decade or so since he wrote that, it sure looks to me like he hit the nail on the head.

You can paint that any color you want, but anytime you blitz, you're sacrificing coverage for pressure.

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Bitternotsour's picture

December 11, 2023 at 03:15 pm

Those impressions speak to a well-called game by MLF. Funny how all phases in synch add up to winning football.

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Since'61's picture

December 11, 2023 at 03:33 pm

First and foremost I believe that the Packers lose this game only if they beat themselves with mistakes and penalties. We have the better team and we have been playing better every week over the last 4-5 games. Keep that going.

As for Barry's defense one of the ways that the Packers can lose this game is if Barry allows Barkley to run all over the place, take time off the clock and keep our offense off the field. So what I would do is plan to stop Barkley, especially early in the game. Take away the Giants best weapon and force DeVito to beat the Packers with the pass. Hopefully the Packers build an early lead as they have in the last 2 games. building a lead does even more to take Barkley out of the Giants offense and force DeVito to be one dimensional. At that point we go back to our stop the pass first defense.

The Giants liability is their OL. Therefore don't allow them to build confidence buy enabling them to get their ground game going. Stop the run, build a lead, make them one dimensional then aggressively pass rush Devito and force bad throws and get sacks. That's the formula. Otherwise the Giants will play to shorten the game by running the ball and sustaining long drives. Don't allow them to win with their formula rather force them to play against our formula for winning.
Go Pack Go! Thanks, Since '61

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buckyor's picture

December 11, 2023 at 10:26 pm

Joe Barry is the toast of New York.

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