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Packers Vs. Saints: First Impressions

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Packers Vs. Saints: First Impressions

My immediate thoughts on the Packers - Saints game without the benefit of a re-watch.

...

This Aaron Jones kid is something special, huh? I'm assuming there's outrage over why the Packers are choosing to split carries between him and Ty Montgomery.

Questionable decision for Brett Hundley to launch it deep into double coverage -- looked like he had to get it off a step earlier but it's still something he can learn from.

Brett... Rodgers?

Something you didn't expect to be saying by Sunday afternoon: The Packers defense is keeping Drew Brees in check.

Packers can't really lose Kentrell Brice, who was carted to the locker room. Already without Morgan Burnett, Dom Capers' nitro package takes a huge hit.

It's halftime and Blake Martinez has 11 tackles -- next-closest guy is Ha Ha Clinton-Dix with four. He's becoming a real staple for the defense.

You can tell that Brett Hundley's been learning behind Aaron Rodgers. 

If you can hold a Drew Brees-led offense to a field goal, you're doing something right. That's also probably the only way the Packers win this game.

The Packers have their running back, and it's Aaron Jones.

I said earlier in the week it'd be majorly helpful if the Packers incorporated some read-options into their offense to play to Brett Hundley's strengths. Mike McCarthy must read my Twitter.

Don't understand the logic behind being conservative on McCarthy's end. Don't think you want to rely on your defense getting back-to-back stops against Drew Brees.

McCarthy simplified things for Hundley. Just comes down to player execution, and the Packers didn't have much of that.

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (158) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Bearmeat's picture

Our defense sucks. It has since 2011, and it's not any better. Without a high scoring offense, this team is toast.

I have not and will not give up on my team. But unless Hundley and the defense get better over the bye, this team is not going to make the playoffs. I expect some improvement from BH as he learns, but I'd be shocked if it is enough to overcome our truly awful D.

This game was just as expected - ugly to watch. MM HAS to open up the playbook and just take the INTs. This team does not have enough talent to play ball control and defense. Better to lose 28-38 than 10-24.

Fire. Dom. Capers. Please.

Go anyone who plays the Vikings.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Did you expect Capers to hold the Saints below 20? Not really sure how this one is on Capers.

Bearmeat's picture

No I didn't.

I also didn't expect to give up nearly FIVE HUNDRED yards. I don't care WHO you play. That is pathetic. The D got exactly ZERO stops in the second half. I would be saying something different if this were the exception, but it's proven to be the rule since week 1 of 2011.

FIRE. CAPERS.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

The offense needs to make some drives too. Defense was on the field all game.

rdent's picture

Two interceptions no points. Offense was pathetic.

Nick Perry's picture

Exactly!! The defense was pathetic, I agree with Bearmeat but McCarthy's play calling was awful!!! BOTH those calls on 3rd and one were terrible after the Bree's INT's.

McCarthy and Thompson for that matter don't have Rodgers to bail them out this year. That was the 26th ranked defense. It won't get a whole lot easier than the Saints for an offense.

mrj007's picture

Well said.

Dzehren's picture

Way to many 3 and outs

Bearmeat's picture

... I literally can't believe someone is excusing the defense... they were truly awful in the 2nd half. ...

BH wasn't good. And MM needs to open up the playbook a little. But 500 yards given up isn't going to give you much chance to win against anyone. There are two components to TOP - offense and defense. We didn't have either today.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Not really excusing. Just saying that in today's NFL 26 points allowed is a neutral performance. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is. On the other hand the offense was nothing close to a neutral performance, they will be lucky to win any games with that.

marpag1's picture

Actually, giving up 26 is considerably less than 'neutral' in today's NFL. In the past decade, only about 6 teams per year (5.9) gave up 26 points or more. So 26 points or more represents the bottom 20% of the league.

Up until this game, however, the Packer were very 'neutral' from a purely statistical point of view... 17th in yards per game (326) and 14th in points (22.5). Hardly great, but not exactly the Armageddon some are describing.

flackcatcher's picture

Both of you are both right. What's change is how the NFL makes their calls. Up to a couple years ago DB were allowed to have contact after 5 yards from the line. Defensive backs no longer are allowed to touch a receiver in his route. The real problem is depending on the Ref crew, some will call it, others will not. Same with holding at the line. NFL has slanted the rules so far in favor of the offense, we are seeing veteran Ref crews ignoring the 'guidance' and imposing their view of the rules. That said, there is no excuse for not knowing your assignment (Hawkins, Evans, Brice and Evans again and yes the rookie Jones. Dail, stay home, mind your gap don't chase every damn movement the O line gives you)

GBPDAN1's picture

500 yards given up at home....bad

lambeau66's picture

Amen Fire Capers!!!

snowdog's picture

Fire Capers 5.0

HankScorpio's picture

They're not going to fire Capers this week, no matter how much it is obvious to anyone and/or everyone outside the building.

I do agree that he should go.

But I grow weary of reading it ad naseum every gameday for years on end.

Finwiz's picture

"Dom Capers is an OUTSTANDING football coach"!

HankScorpio's picture

Well there is an original comment that is rarely seen. :D

badaxed's picture

He should be out standing in the unemployment line.

HankScorpio's picture

The defense created 2 TOs. Instead of trying to convert them into points, the Packer offense followed them with pathetic 3 and outs to put the defense right back on the field.

I'm not going to say the defense played well or even up to expectations. They didn't even slow down the Saints offense in the 2nd half. Even a speed bump would have been more than what they did. This after a pretty decent first half from the defense.

But the offense did them no favors. And that is supposed to be the Packers strength. I just wonder if it is that Hundley really does stink as bad as he looked, McCarthy wet the bed or a little of both.

Bearmeat's picture

It was Hundley's 1st start. Granted, this is year 3 in the system, so that's not a complete pass from me. But he has time to get better.

The defense has been in the same ugly song and dance for most of the past decade. And yet, we still have seen NO changes. That's mostly what I'm pissed about.

HankScorpio's picture

Hundley didn't even put up 100 yards passing on a Saint defense that other teams have gouged big. You can give him all the passes you want. But they don't give passes in the NFL. They give out Ws and Ls.

My only question is whether the fire needs to be directed at McCarthy for handcuffing him, McCarthy for fooling himself into believing he was a capable backup, Thompson for not seeing Hundley stinks or Hundley for completely wetting himself when presented with an opportunity.

AK Cheese's picture

I agree, it was his first start with one week of practice. Give'em a break, it takes a lot more starts in order to see what you've got in hand. Everybody wants to win, nobody likes to lose, get it. Let's see how the Lion's game goes.

God bless Blake Martinez....

Nick Perry's picture

Do you remember during TC Martinez was an afterthought to some it seemed? ALL we heard about is Burnett, Jones, and Ryan on run downs. If not for Martinez the defense gives up 650 yards.

I have a whole new level of respect for Aaron Rodgers after watching that offensive performance and coaching job by McCarthy.

Finwiz's picture

I have watched A LOT of football over the years. I think I've predicted talent when I see it. I'm not surprised by any of the players that ended up being pretty good over the long term for the Packers.

I didn't think Hundley looked very good in preseason this year, and he didn't move the team. I thought Taysom Hill looked the best of all the QB's besides 12, in the preseason this year. I thought he moved the team very well when he played, and had a knack for finding open receivers. It looks like a mistake to have let him go and not protect him on the roster.

The Packers defense is NOT capable of supporting a below average to average QB like Hundley. They are consistently exposed with passes over the middle and switching in zone coverage. Until the defense gets better don't expect another playoff run, or a Super Bowl, particularly without Rodgers. I really do think it's more the scheme than it is the players, or else Thompson is extremely incompetent in drafting talent because they have gone for defense plenty in the last 3-4 years. It's going to be a long season.

rdent's picture

I agree with your comment about the defense, I noticed once again the middle was wide open. Is it the scheme or the players? I mean it seems there is no one one that defense occupying the middle.

fthisJack's picture

they were still in the game until NO went right down the filed and scored to end the game. typical Capers fail on the last drive.

ollie418's picture

Are you kidding me? NO moved the ball at will. The only reason they were held under 40 was the two turnovers.

Saints scored on ALL 4 possessions in the second half. Save the last one were they ran out the clock.

Another bad clock management performance by MM.

packerbackerjim's picture

Drew Brees held the Saints to 20–he looked the “Bad Brett” Favre in the first half. The D gets a slight pass as a result of the injury epidemic. Capers does not—the spacing is awful and has been for years. The Pack gets gashed because they cannot contain. Several folks complain about the players being at fault, not the coaches. This is only partially true—they have not been “coached up” particularly well. When the Saints only have to punt once, it’s illustrative of a bad D.

HankScorpio's picture

I agree that Brees didn't play too well today. He is still fairly accurate and knows how to read a defense but he's got no arm strength left at all. The Randall pick was an atrocious throw. The House pick was not as bad but still an example of a bit deeper throw that hung enough for the DB to have the better shot at the catch. He's a shell of the guy that has destroyed Packer defenses in the past.

With that guy, I would have called allowing 26 points a nice effort by the defense. With the guy that showed up today, they should have done better....especially considering the WR that really hurt them was Ted Ginn, Jr.

Finwiz's picture

The Randall pick wasn't so much an atrocious throw as it was just a BAD read on his part and shouldn't have been thrown. The coverage was picture perfect by 23 on that play. There was nowhere better to throw that ball with limited space in the end zone. Give Randall some credit because it was one of the handful of great plays by the Packers in the game.

ollie418's picture

Yes, Bearmeat fire Capers!

jyros's picture

Three words. 1) Time 2)Of 3) Possesion

Horse's picture

Packers D was on the field 22 of the 30 minutes in the 2nd half. There is no scheme on earth that could compensate for that. You can't expect an 8 minute TOP by the O to do anything but exhaust the D.

ollie418's picture

Dear Horse,

Maybe if the D made a play they could get OFF the field.

Receivers are not just open but wide open.

Pathetic

splitpea1's picture

This is like watching reruns of a bad sitcom. How much worse can this defense get? Shoved up and down the field. Not enough QB sacks, hits, or hurries. Difficulty getting off the field on third down. Not able to stop screens, even when the same play was executed again and again. WRs a few steps ahead of the secondary. At least we got a couple of nice interceptions early, but that's about the only good thing you can say about this particular effort.

We found a running back. Fast, shifty, intelligent, and seemingly a good fit for this offense. I like it a lot better than two yards up the gut. We'll need all the help we can get. Need a more aggressive game plan to win, though--maybe some short QB-friendly passes (with the requisite blocking) like New Orleans used on us.

shystr's picture

Defense will probably improve somewhat after the bye. Should get MORGAN BURNETT back, who was missed. Also would like to see what MONTRAVIOUS ADAMS and VINCE BIEGEL bring to the mix

Nick Perry's picture

OH BULL****!!!! We've used that excuse for YEARS now. It doesn't matter!!!

jeremyjjbrown's picture

This is gonna be ugly...

MM, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and you put a diaper on Hundley. Glad to know Pittsburgh tough stops at talking.

Kevin King, please donate your game check to charity. Your effort in coverage was utterly pathetic.

Nick Perry's picture

Another one of Ted Thompson's Pac 12 draft picks. I could understand going back if he has success. But Thompson keeps going back without much of all. Then again he really doesn't hit much from any conference.

snowdog's picture

Giving King a pass . A rookie throne into the fire from Day 1 , in the Hot valuable corner no less . Hoping Dom doesn't destroy these young dbacks confidence to the point of talent wasted . TT can't be missing on 4 of their top pics in 2 years . It's Dom . I don' believe it's too late this season to start over in another scheme this year ! At this point , we have NOTHING to lose .

HankScorpio's picture

My first impression is that Mike McCarthy does not believe in Brett Hundley nearly as much as we have been led to believe. It didn't just start this week with pumping up Hundley. It's been going on for a few years that we've heard he was a good QB.

But when the rubber hit the road today, the Hundley train spun out and wrecked. And it was quite clear that McCarthy game planned for that. It was an ultra-conservative gameplan that asked nothing of Hundley...which is precisely what he delivered...nothing.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

I feel dupped by MM. I listened to his presser last week and took him at his word. Last time that's going to happen.

rdent's picture

Losing AR will expose McCarthy as an average coach. I can't help but think we are going to see a rerun of 2013.

Archie's picture

If MM were an average coach, AR would have 3 SB crowns, not one.

rdent's picture

Archie, I may have given MM too much credit labeling him as average.

GBPDAN1's picture

We now have a drab, predictable, offense to go along with our leaky defense! I was disappointed with the O-line today, also. We better get somewhat of a deeper passing game going, or, this offense will be to predictable.

And what about Dom's D . Did anyone expect anything else? NFL record of over 300 yards passing to the same team 7 games in a row.....pathetic

cpabandit's picture

GBPDAN1, the offense had been predictable for years. Last year's Falcon Packers playoff game the Atlanta players admitted after the game that they knew what plays were coming before they were even called. MM is too predictable and pathetic. They let the Saints hang around too long and you cannot do that with Drew Brees. Let him throw the ball MM! Throw the ball!! You have so many weapons to throw to. Passing always will win the game.

GBPDAN1's picture

Good point, bandit. But now we're predictable and have BH instead of AR. .... bad

Jonathan Spader's picture

Saints weren't exactly unpredictable. Even the announcer knew that on 3rd and 1 on the goal loan Drew Brees was going to QB sneak over the goal line. He had the ball exposed in the air and easily scored a TD. Sean Payton's offense is also fairly predictable the difference is execution. With Aaron Rodgers even if you know it's a backshoulder throw to Nelson good luck stopping it. You want MM and DC to simplify the offense and defense but then you complain that it's predictable. Which one is it? What I saw was the opposite of what I've seen from the Packers in the past. Usually we've started slow and made that half time adjustment and came back in the 2nd half and won. This game we started out fast and after the 2nd half looked like we abandoned everything that had been working on offense and defense.

fthisJack's picture

turn out the lights, the parties over for another year. need a big shake up in coaching on this team.

rdent's picture

TT's contract runs into 2018 so even if they go 4-12 a high pick won't matter and all the coaches will remain.

Nick Perry's picture

I don't know bro. Even that moron Murphy has got to have a clue that's one poorly coached team that severely lacks talent at several positions. He's needs to worry a little less about "Title Town" and a little more about the Packers Football Team. I really think there's some serious shakeups after this year. It will be to obvious to ignore anymore.

Edit.... Rodgers is only under contract for what, two more years? If Thompson and McCarthy are still there I'd have my doubts he'd sign to stay with those two idiots. I wouldn't take Rodgers staying in GB if the mental morons are still there. Now that's a nightmare of a thought!

ollie418's picture

Packers defense is so awful it is a joke. I don't want to hear anybody (Bill Dickson) talk about injuries.

Receivers are not just open but WIDE open.

Please FIRE Capers.

Also, MM was too careful with Hundley.

Brutal performance or lack of one.

caruso81's picture

Headline - October 29th, 2017

"Packers Enjoy Bye Week. Still give up 390 Yards on Defense."

cpabandit's picture

Unfortunately, as Al B said in a different thread, because there is no one owner of the Packers, it is not easy to fire DC or MM.

Capers has proven year after year after year that his method of coaching is old, all of his tricks are passe, he is just out of touch with today's football game. It doesn't matter who TT drafts for a better defense, talent alone can't cut it. The player has to be coached properly. Not having a defense to help support Favre and Rodgers offense is a damn shame.

HankScorpio's picture

A team that has a "draft and develop" philosophy needs the coaching staff for the second part of that. The front office does the drafting, the coaches do the developing. Since both seem to happen on the offensive side of the ball with the same front office, I have to believe that coaching is the variable that dictates they are constantly in re-build mode on defense.

Years ago, the debate over whether Capers defense was too complex raged. Is such a system suited for a team that is always going to skew young and need contributions from those youngsters? I don't see much of that debate any more. I really wonder why. I am a much bigger fan of the kind of defensive philosophy that Jim Bates brought to GB...keep it simple and emphasize fundamentals.

Archie's picture

Why is it Dom's defensive scheme works better for teams not named GB?

As bad a DC as Dom is, MM and his offensive scheme are just as bad. Only difference is #12.

btw - Taysom Hill looks like he was best Pack QB not named AR. Too bad TT gave him away, same as Hayward, Hyde, Sitton, Lang and Tretter. This team isn't even mediocre w/o #12.

On the plus side, Aaron Jones is a keeper. MM will have to figure out how to use 88. That could take a year or two. Kenny Clark and Blake Martinez have both stepped up as well. Team health should be good post-bye. Will it matter?

Jared Cook for Martellus Bennett turns out to be very bad TT trade.

Looking forward to John Dorsey exercising the 5th pick in the 2018 draft for GB .... Can't wait to see his pick for HC ....

ollie418's picture

Even with Rodgers the Packers D was not good enough to win it all. Now it is impossible.

fthisJack's picture

both lines got their a$$es handed to them today. if it wasn't for A. Jones and Martinez, there wasn't much to like about this game.

HankScorpio's picture

Kenny Clark is coming along nicely, as well.

Nick Perry's picture

First Impressions????

The Packers are finally going to have a top 12 pick!!! Al, can you please get to work on the CHTV Draft Guide and have a little earlier release???

Archie's picture

For this offense to win a game, it will require the defense to hold a team to single digit points. Pack will get at least the 5th pick in the 2018 draft if it doesn't win again. This season could scare Mark Murphy enough to replace his GM and HC. If it doesn't, then he should be fired too.

GBPDAN1's picture

At least we didn't lose 5 starters in this game. Maybe we'll lose the injury bug now that we're missing our HOA QB

jh9's picture

I blame MM for this loss. Hundley didn't call any audibles. He ran the plays MM gave him, and I saw too many questionable plays called.

Three offensive series come to mind. Each series after the two interceptions were called poorly. In the 4th quarter, Aaron Jones was asked to run to the short side of the field in back to back plays. Bad play calling.

Yes, Hundley was inefficient with his passing. But how many quick slants did we see? Where were our creative passing sets to give us match-up advantages with easy passes to running backs or multiple tight end sets? I didn't see them.

AR has always made MM look better as a play caller and a coach than he really is. MM can't hide behind a less talented QB like Hundley.

But the thing that bothers me the most, is MM inability to make effective in-game adjustments. MM is a planner. He has his game plan and that's it. If the opposing coach makes halftime adjustments to neutralize MM's game plan, MM just doesn't have the talent to readjust his play calling. We've seen this time after time when AR is not at his best. Now with AR gone I'm afraid we will have to witness this again and again.

I understand that having the ability to ad lib or think quickly on one's feet is a special talent. Not everyone can do it. AR can, but, unfortunately, MM can't. It has always been one of his major weaknesses as a play caller and coach.

lou's picture

jh9, very accurate statements that would be hard to debate otherwise. If the team really believes they still have a chance for a winning season and possible playoff berth they have to make a call tomorrow to Matt Flynn. Yes, he has not played for 2 years but he is only 32 and we have a bye week coming up. We know that even with flawed game plans in the past the team can win with him, he will not lose the game, he is a winner (NCAA Championship - Super Bowl). Even with a very questionable game plan with 3 years in the system, Hundley lacks anticipation and accuracy, he ran the offense, did not get flustered and scrambled well but you need to be able to make the THROWS in the NFL.

lou's picture

Packer reporter today in the Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel on Hundley's accuracy (or therefore lack of).

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/10/22/brett-hundle...

Thebearsstillsuck's picture

Just a piss poor game plan all the way around. I don't care how many points the D allowed, 500 yards, td pass was ugly as shit with the super overrated ha ha in terrible position again, Ted Ginn gets 30 yards on a give up pass at the end of the half.

Offense was even worse. Jones needed 25 carries, pass to adams on 3rd and less than 1 was just stupid, no points off turnovers. I blame MM more than Hundley. What the hell did he do this week. Does he know that run around in the pocket and pray a receiver gets open on a busted play works better with 12 than any other qb ever. 7 yards per competition and less then 3.5 per attempt. Great plan coach.

Montgomery is a gadget player with a coach that's not creative enough to use him

I'd be excited if I thought there was going to be change at the end of this upcoming disaster. But I honestly think GB could lose every game, allow 500yds on defense, have Hundley finish with a 60 passer rating, and nothing will change. Then TT will go Justin Harrell or square peg/round hole again with a top 10 pick and we'll be here again next year

Tundraboy's picture

"Montgomery is a gadget player with a coach that's not creative enough to use him"

That can be said with just about every player on O. Sad. Some Offensive minded genius, and assuming he is, it never materializes on the field.

Lphill's picture

Game balls A Jones , Blake Martinez .

EdsLaces's picture

Put Montgomery...on....the...bench. Jones shouldn't be allowed to leave the game.

Samson's picture

The "Monty at RB" experiment needs to end. -- Everyone knew that as soon as a 'real" RB showed up -- Monty would again be a WR.

HankScorpio's picture

I'm with you on that one Samson, sort of. Monty is a versatile player. He can make things happen when he gets touches. It doesn't really matter where he lines up...slot, wide, in the backfield or fielding punts/kicks.

But he's not a starting NFL RB. Lining him up in the backfield some is not a bad move for the Packers. But it is clear that Jones is the starting RB now, even if it is the ribs that are slowing down Monty now.

MITM's picture

The Patriots went what, 3-1 last year without Brady, and didnt they start 2 different QBs also? I dont care what anyone says, Taysom Hill was easily our best Quarterback this preseason. Brett Hundley sucks. Graham Harrell could have done what Hundley did today.

Slim11's picture

Harrell couldn't run. Otherwise, I agree!

Jonathan Spader's picture

I'd like to see the Patriots go 3-1 this year with that defense and no Brady.

Mojo's picture

We get it that Brees is one of the better NFL QB's, but anyone could look great with the middle of the field wide open time after time.

It gives the opponent great leeway when you can do whatever you want on first and second knowing there's a high probability on third you can get the ten yards on a simple cross.

Tackling was bad especially around the edges. Plus they get hung-up in the middle too much leaving the edge open. We can't stop the short pass or the run despite all the draft capital spent on the D.

Doesn't it seem we rarely have a player wide open yet our opponents catch passes with no one in the picture. Then the guy nearest by races in out of control and misses the tackle.

I don't know even with ARod if this defense is good enough to win a SB.

rdent's picture

Letting Taysom Hill go was another TT mistake.

badaxed's picture

We need to look at the film, clean it up, adjust our pad level and fire mcfatty, the white zombie, and howdy doody.

Rob_S's picture

Hundley is NOT a starter.
I'm not even sure he should be 2nd string QB.
or am I just spoiled with AR memories?

HankScorpio's picture

Whether or not you are spoiled with AR memories does not change that Hundley had less than 100 yards passing. He stunk today. Whether he was handcuffed into stinking or handcuffed because they know he stinks is the only thing that I question.

Mojo's picture

The thing with Hundley he has almost no rapport with top two receivers - Jordy and Adams. Only one catch on a broken play with Jordy and two short nothing plays with Adams. That just ain't gonna get it done.

HankScorpio's picture

Throw in Cobb, too.

Nelson, Adams and Cobb combined for 5 catches, 40 yards and 0 TDs. That's an off game for any one of them. When the 3 of them combine for that, it's pretty easy to guess the winner.

flackcatcher's picture

Hundley said the same thing in his after game press conference. Slow, not reading the breaks. We all knew Hundley needed more reps, his performance is not surprising.

MITM's picture

Also as an Alabama fan I was very surprised to see Eddie Jackson last until round 4, where the Bears got him. Injuries aside I personally suspected he could be the better NFL prospect than Ha Ha but he never had the same hype around him. So in the 1st quarter today of a game in his rookie season he has already made more of a difference than Ha Ha. He sucks. Flatout. Didnt deserve the accolades he got last year. Hype can go a long way.

Jersey Al's picture

I've been saying for 3 years he is overrated. Never understood the infatuation. His instincts are not good back there. hesitates, plays it too safe, takes bad angles, etc. All his INTs are tips or overthrows - never because he made a play.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

I agree. I think if the TV camera men where good enough to show the safeties insead of 15 yards of empty back field it would be a lot more obvious.

MITM's picture

Im with you Al. I was explaining to a buddy of mine this week how devastating the losses of Desmond Bishop and Nick Collins were to this defense. Just for reference I went back and checked Collins stats and wanted to throw up. Desmond Bishop in the SB year also had 100+ tackles 3 sacks, a pick six (off Favre I believe.) Countless big plays from the 2 of them during that SB run. Sigh. Ha Ha is not the answer at free safety and I dont even think hes a good enough physical presence to be that good of a strong safety either.

rdent's picture

I don't believe Dix should be starting. Just haven't seen nearly enough from him. Never around.

Lphill's picture

Way to step it up defense and support Hundley . Pathetic

Samson's picture

MM --- MM --- MM

A good NFL HC would have had his BU QB ready for a home game in his 1st start. -- MM is not a good HC. -- SOS.... MM is still nothing without AR.

Mojo's picture

ARod should take a long-term approach to his recovery. Work to get to 100% for next year. The Pack are not going to be in the playoff picture in late December.

HankScorpio's picture

The Saints were a good team 5 years ago. They are a below average team now, especially on the road. They were clearly the better team today. It wasn't even close.

pacman's picture

Think they are going to call Romo now?

HankScorpio's picture

Unless they can find another AR to replace the one they lost, I don't see the point.

Romo won't make them SB contenders. And neither will anyone else that is on the street today. So why not ride it out, get the draft pick and re-set with a healthy AR in 2018?

4thand1's picture

Romo can read defenses, he does it every week in the booth.

rdent's picture

Too bad it will be TT making that pick.

pacman's picture

After this past pre-season, I didn't see why anyone had confidence in Hundley but I thought it was fair to wait until this week to judge anything. Packers let Hill go even though he looked the best in pre-season. They had AJ at the bottom of the depth chart and look what he has shown.

Not at all confident in TT/MM/coaches abilities to judge talent. If they want to salvage this season, I think Romo, with a new found running game, gives them a better chance than Hundley.

Now Hundley will have all the practice anyone could ask for in preparation of next game. He's not going to have too many more chances to salvage his career.

Lphill's picture

Vic Fangio, Wade Phillips, Jim Schwartz all better than Capers to name a few. I would be happy with Rex Ryan .

fastmoving's picture

Rex Ryan is the second biggest loser in the states at the moment. the only guy who thinks he is great is himself......an you.
If you get lucky he brings his brother as headcoach as well

MITM's picture

Loser, clown, call him what you will and youd be right. But as a defensive coordinator if you think he wouldnt be better running our defense than capers youre wrong. Sorry. And that isnt even saying much either. Its like coming in first place in a wheelchair race. But its still true.

Tundraboy's picture

Unfortunately didn't get an opportunity to watch the game today being at work but I guess that was being fortunate. None-the-less seems like I was rather prophetic when I said the Packers needed to get 2 defensive turnovers but that one of those needed to be a scoring turnover

Glad to hear Jones and Martinez played very well again. There is light at the end of the tunnel,although from the comments I hear it was classic MM, talking about adjusting but needing games, not minutes to do so. Will he ever learn? As for the D, a coaching change has to happen. I can not imagine giving Capers another year. His reputation is a thing of the distant past and now our horrid D reputation is hopelessly intertwined with him. Tired of being a laughingstock when the word D and the Packers are spoken of.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Go with fortunately...

Tundraboy's picture

Yup. Good advice. I need a bye.

GVPacker's picture

Well looks like the Packers will have at least a top ten draft slot this year! I hope Ted or whoever runs the draft war room use's it wisely.

Qoojo's picture

I think the game eventually came down to time of possession. The defense held the score down for them, but could not get off the field, and that led to being run down in the second half. Even though the defense kept the game close, the offense did them no help with too many short drives. 4/11 on 3rd down with 5 punts.

Saints had the ball for 36:56.

My first impression is what I went into the game thinking, without Rodgers, the offense will not be able to cover the points allowed by defense. While the defense got 2 INTs, they still gave up 26 points, and never forced a punt in the second half.

packerbackerjim's picture

A couple of observations of the comments:
NO has a good defense, just ask the Lions. Brees physical skills have diminished but still enough there to shred the D.

HHCD is banged up, but still goes out there for the team’s sake. The injuries have piled up and he shows up!

Hundley will be fine, have a little patience.
I remember AR coming in for criticism early on with people saying it should be Favre Forever, AR never.

There is plenty to criticize, particularly the D, poor play calling on the offense, and special team execution.

4thand1's picture

Sadly this is what we all expected with no HOF QB running the show. This team needs a shake up and it should start with Capers. The play calling was pure shit, AR must change most of them that are called in. If they play like this the rest of the way, they lose out. We are now in the conversation with Cleveland, SF, Baltimore, Indy, AZ.

Tarynfor12's picture

But....but....but....two, count them, two... 1st rd picks can be got for Hundley....12-25-87-0-1....3 years of learning and his best play was a run, which doesn't win games.
Perry got a sack...give him another 10 mil.
: )

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Hey Tarynfor12, Hit on 2 of your Picks. Cleveland & Chicago. Broke Even, Still was a Bad Week. You are Correct, Hundley is not a Starting QB anywhere, not even Cleveland. Yeah, Our Defense Sucks!!, but I thought they played Better than usual, which is still Terrible. 3rd & 18 & can't get off the field. The OL played better than I expected. Other than Hundley I thought the Offense played pretty well. 2 plays that I remember that hurt us was the Stupid Slant Pass on 3rd & 1, & the Penalty on the punt. Those 2 plays could have, & I say could have made a difference. Without AR, & 8 1st Round Picks next year, this team is Finished. I hope AR heals up Healthy. I can't imagine another Losing GB Packer Team.
LVT.

4thand1's picture

I hate to be negative, but I feel we just went back 45 years into the 70's, WTF.

Point Packer's picture

The whole "MM/Hundley have a week together to prepare a game plan that fits the new QB" jibbership voodoo logic was sure proven to be complete and utter BS. This was an awful poorly called game from MM.

3rd and 1 on the second drive, short throw to press coverage? After Jones had been running all over the field? At least hand it Rip and hope he falls forward for a couple. Third series, lets give our first hand-off on yet another 3rd and 1 to Montgomery, who abruptly loses two yards. Again, at least hand it to Rip or your hot hand? Not the guy with the busted up ribs whose coming in cold. Brilliant.

And then the capper, in a entire game of poor play-calling (and in general, coaching). Down by 2, 8min ~ left, lets run it to the side of the field where Bakh has been struggling, No gain. And then do it again on second down. Loss of yards.

Ridiculous. The whole MM is great coach thing is due to one thing only, #12. Take him out and he is sub-bar, at best.

ollie418's picture

Right on Point Packer right on!

Norm's picture

That third and 1 on the second drive sums up the day. How in the hell do you throw short of the sticks on third and one?!?! That it was dropped just adds to the patheticness (if that's a word) of it all, but even if it was completed I don't think they would have gotten the first down.

While the defense did come up with two turnovers, overall I was not impressed. Have they never seen a screen play run at them before? I'm watching the Steelers game right now, trying to remember how long it's been since we had a defense like that.

I'm not giving up on Hundley yet but with a bye and two weeks to prepare, he better show more than he did today. Aaron Jones had more rushing yards than Hundley had passing yards, on eight fewer attempts!

Nick Perry's picture

As soon as the Steelers got rid of LeBeau and his 1990's defense the Steelers D has got better the next year. That and their GM doesn't miss on 1st round picks AND understands to run a 3-4 Defense you HAVE to have TWO outstanding OLB.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Everyone misses on 1st round draft picks. Lets take a look at the draft picks from the Steelers since 2008.

2017 - TJ Watt (Hit already an impact player but it'll take a few more years to know if we should have taken Watt over the King/Beigel combo)
2016 - Artie Burns (Miss No better than R&R Twins)
2015 - Bud Dupree (Hit equivalent of Kenny Clark young raw talent with a ton of upside that keeps getting better)
2014 - Ryan Shazier (Miss too banged up to actually get on the field)
2013 - Jarvis Jones (Huge Miss the guy sucks)
2012 - David DeCastro (Hit OL equivalent of Aaron Rodgers guy fell in the draft to the 24th overall pick and has been awesome)
2011 - Cam Heyward (Hit equivalent of Nick Perry struggled for the first few years and then impressed)
2010- Larence Timmons (Hit equivalent of Clay Matthews)
2010 - Maurkice Pouncey (Hit equivalent of Brian Brulaga)
2009 - Ziggy Hood (Miss basically the equivalent of Jones round peg square hole)
2008 - Rashard Mendenhall (Had potential tore ACL lost potential)

Steelers draft about as well as the Packers. My hope showing you this is that maybe with a decent defensive coordinator we could work with the talent we have on defense and field a decent defense. It wasn't just letting an outdated DC go that changed the steeler's defense. They also cut ties with their older players and got younger and more athletic on defense. We have done that except we're still relying on CM3 at OLB. I think our defense is close and with a better DC and a good 1st round draft pick EDGE rusher the Packers defense could be as good as the steelers. If King progresses, Waters gets healthy and takes a leap, and if someone else emerges at CB.

Cwilly's picture

Hundley is awful no way around it. Play calling didn’t help but he couldn’t hit anyone. He’s lucky to have one pick since his receivers saved the others (most notable jordy). I told everyone I would save my opinion after last week but this guy proved he doesn’t belong. Hundley threw for 87 yards on the saints at home. He rushed 46 half of passing. If we can’t throw the balll Cobb could be qb in a read option scheme. I’m not blaming a defense on the field the whole game. Yeah they didn’t make a stop in the second half but offense couldn’t get a first down. Usually when a running back runs all over the other defense it’s a win but not with Hundley. If they don’t make a switch or bring someone in this team doesn’t win another game. I know capers d gives up a lot of points and yards but they get turnovers too. And what’d we do with them we lost yards. Our d won’t get better and the way Green Bay wins is with a passing qb which we don’t have right now.

Cwilly's picture

Hundley is awful no way around it. Play calling didn’t help but he couldn’t hit anyone. He’s lucky to have one pick since his receivers saved the others (most notable jordy). I told everyone I would save my opinion after last week but this guy proved he doesn’t belong. Hundley threw for 87 yards on the saints at home. He rushed 46 half of passing. If we can’t throw the balll Cobb could be qb in a read option scheme. I’m not blaming a defense on the field the whole game. Yeah they didn’t make a stop in the second half but offense couldn’t get a first down. Usually when a running back runs all over the other defense it’s a win but not with Hundley. If they don’t make a switch or bring someone in this team doesn’t win another game. I know capers d gives up a lot of points and yards but they get turnovers too. And what’d we do with them we lost yards. Our d won’t get better and the way Green Bay wins is with a passing qb which we don’t have right now.

Bugeater's picture

Aaron Jones is the real deal. On a day when NO’s first directive is to stop the run to force Hundley to pass, he was very successful. That is no small thing.

Our favorite team is struggling right now, and I will not give up on them. I didn’t in the 70’s or the 80’s and I won’t now. I’m not just rooting for jersey’s, but the team that means so much to me. Sure it would have been better to pull this one out, we were all pretty sure this would be an “L”. It’s not over yet. It’s still all out there. Don’t give up on this team. What fun is that?

Cwilly's picture

I will never give up but not optimistic with the present qb. We finally can run the ball but now we lack the true passing threat. Something has to be done or we are in for a long season. All we need is a qb that can complete a couple passes with our receivers. We have a great group to throw to and they were open many times during the game to catch the ball. McCarthy is who he is but it’s on him to either make a switch at qb or do something that maximizes the passing game. Every team is gonna stack the box until then and that’s what the saints did in the second half. We dont need a mobile qb since we finally found a run game. We have to have a passing threat so we can score points and use jones the most effective way we can.

Since '61's picture

My first impressions are that our OL and DL did not play very well today. Where was our hero Mike Daniels. Pass rush was mostly nonexistent. Our defense played well in the first half but the failure to convert either turnover into points hurt the team badly. MM put too much emphasis on protecting Hundley today. While I understand the need to keep things basic the offense stills needs to throw some intermediate and long passes to keep the defense honest, especially when you have Nelson, Adams and Cobb. Our OL is not good enough to play only ground and pound. If Hundley is going to improve he needs to be allowed to improve not held back.

In the second half our defense could not get off the field and allowed scores on four consecutive NO possessions. That can't happen when the QB is making his first NFL start. If our defense doesn't make stops Hundley will never have a chance to improve because he will always be playing from behind. After, 9 seasons with Capers, MM and TT working together this defense should be ready to take over a game if not a season. What have they been building for 9 years with nearly all of the Packers early picks going to the defense?

After the bye I say open up the offense for Hundley and let it fly. The defense is going to get better or it isn't, but either way they can't be depended upon to carry the team while AR is out. If it remains true for the rest of the season it will be long overdue (again) to fire Capers. Thanks, Since '61

Slim11's picture

I agree with opening up the offense for Hundley. Failure to do so is an admission that Hundley was (a) a poor draft pick and/or (b) three seasons of MM's QB school was wasted on Hundley.

If Hundley fails to seize the moment and take advantage of his opportunity, maybe Callahan gets a shot.

Tundraboy's picture

I thought for sure he was going to let it fly. Who am I kidding.

Qoojo's picture

"What have they been building for 9 years with nearly all of the Packers early picks going to the defense?"

I have been thinking along the same lines. Nearly zero return on investment. That's why I was hoping that this Rodgers injury might focus a huge inescapable bright light on the defense.

Now where is the problem, picking the guys, coaching the guys, or both? As far as I am concerned, TT hit one out of the park with A. Rodgers, and that one pick has allowed complacency at all levels. No defense, no problem rodgers can still get the team to the playoffs. Bad play calling, no problem, rodgers can extend plays till someone comes open.

The thing about defense is that if they don't get some help like missed passes and dropped passes, they rarely stop decent to average QB teams. The top tier QBs always shred this defense like isn't there. This defense is built to lose in the playoffs unless Rodgers can take the offense and score on every possession, because this defense is capable of never stopping the offense at any point in the game. This defense is so bad that a FG is always acceptable.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I thought Lowry was playing well in the first half. Don't remember him doing anything in the 2nd, or if he even played. Still, encouraging.

Since '61's picture

Reynoldo - I agree that Lowry played well in the first half. I thought Kenny Clark had a good game as well. To me Daniels was the missing link from the Packers DL against the Saints. Thanks, Since '61

pacman's picture

Might not be the best place to ask this but I'm trying to view some video's from the players on Packers.com and they just don't play. Anyone else having the same problem?

Norm's picture

I blame Capers, he hasn't gotten any of them to play either.

pacman's picture

I finally got the interview with MM to play. Hurray - he said he has to coach better. He also said special teams has to play better and "we've been talking about that every week". Will anything change?

MarkAlan's picture

Hundley surely looked awkward out there, I don't think he'll get a chance to start after this year, anywhere

The TKstinator's picture

I was not entertained.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Thought Act I was very good.
Act II was bad.
Didn't want to see Act III.

The TKstinator's picture

Have to agree.

CAG123's picture

After watching other games on TV because fox decided Packers and Saints wasn’t good enough without Rodgers I realized more than ever that Capers needs to go his fancy smancy gadget defense do nothing no matter what name they go by I watched inspiring defensive play from the Bears who’s QB didn’t play any better than Hundley and saw them single handily beat the Panthers (a team we play as well) the Bears don’t have any stars on that team so it leads me to believe that it’s our defensive philosophy that’s not getting the most out of our players I mean we drafted a press corner and signed another yet we ask them to play zone doesn’t make sense to me. Also at this point the Randall trade/cut talks need to stop he’s the only player in the secondary making plays that’s 3 straight weeks and 3 straight interceptions that kid is on a mission to redemption

stockholder's picture

How many times have I wrote: Fire Capers. They got blown out on that final TD. No separation on the WRs part. Nelson, Cobb and Adams never stepped it up. And you guys want to pay Adams. Just not smart! (A-Rod's PET. ) Not enough throws down field for me. And Adams is not Jennings. Jones looks like A. Green. So the defense has talent. Poor conditioning and the injuries are making them weak.

Bedrock's picture

I think I finally have the issue with Dom figured out. He has a fundamental conflict between his system and management’s philosophy. His system is complicated and requires veterans who can communicate to be successful. TT’s draft and development philosophy consistently puts young kids out there. Occasionally those young kids make a splash play, usually play solid. But a breakdown in communication is destined to occur with all the youth.

Mojo's picture

Have thought the same thing for years Bedrock. Capers schemes are probably innovative and sound if they can be executed properly.

But with all the changing parts in the secondary and many of them inexperienced, I wonder if they are capable of pulling off what Capers wants them to do. He might be better off keeping it simple especially with Burnett out.

ollie418's picture

BS Capers blows,

flackcatcher's picture

Capers Nitro scheme allows DB to man up both the slot and TE. It covers the soft 5-15 underbelly between the SS and ILB. Up to now, it has been successful. That was the primary reason we didn't see much of Nitro last week. This game is why Nitro exists, and is the Packers preferred defense. New Orleans made adjustments in the second half to expose our young DB playing in the slot. Give them credit. Without Burnett this defense is completely different. His lost takes away the defensive ability to make adjustments presnap, and allows DB to play at the line to stuff the run or blitz, and covers up the soft under belly. Yeah, Morgan Burnett is that important to this team. Oh, and this is why Whitt fought so hard to keep Gunter on this team. Assignment sure at three positions. Both Brice and Evans and Hawkins are better athletes, but what good is it when they can not do the job.

Bedrock's picture

How much did the wide receivers help Hundley out? Blame MM all you want, but he’s not on the field. I don’t care if MM has stale play calling. Players make plays regardless of the play call. These guys didn’t make plays today. It was a clunker if a game. The only thing I blame MM for in this loss is for a team that played in a funk.

GeorgiaCheesehead's picture

This game played out as I expected. Another shitty game plan and coaching by MM. he is below average without #12 or #4. Time to clean house with TT, MM and DC. So much for Hundley being the answer. After 3 years learning the system and being coached by the quarterback coaching guru MM and his offensive genius mindset. I’ve been saying it for years. The fact that he and TT actually think that Hundley is so good is laughable. He just stunk it up today at home against a not very good NO defense who play really bad on the road. And the fact that will not even entertain Romo as a better option speaks volumes. It’s time for s change Mark Murphy I hope you are listening to the fans.

Lphill's picture

Can I rent the fence across from lambeau and paint on it Fire Capers?

GeorgiaCheesehead's picture

If Hundley is our QB we might win 3 games and finish 7-9

badaxed's picture

I see you are a real optimist . 7 and 9 wow that would ensure Mcfatty coach of the year.

Bure9620's picture

Not defending the defense, they left much to be desired, however when a defense is on the field as long a they were, you are eventually going to get gashed.

I put this loss primarily on McCarthy, yes Hundley needs to play better, but how about giving your inexperienced young QB some easy reads on short throws with a high chance of completion to get him in a rythym and build his confidence? Some quick slants, Sticks, flats, curls, maybe a quick rollout to the tight ends? Screens to Monty and Jones? For God's sake get the ball out of the kids hand quick and let those WRs go get the YAC yards. I simply don't get what McCarthy was doing?? It looked like he told Hundley, "hey brett here's the game plan for the week, just run around back there for a bit and take off when I dont scheme anyone open for you cause I'm not going to. I'm only calling long developing routes it may actually take a long time for them to get open down field so don't throw it when they do cause you'll throw a pick. Dont screw up. Got it? Cool."

GeorgiaCheesehead's picture

Hundley QB rating 39.9 - let’s hope he gets better quick

Pauly's picture

In a worse case scenario.. A 5-6 and 10-11 season. Drafting at # 5 or 6 with 12-13 draft picks.

IF,,, TT does some smart trading he should be able to have a total of 7-8 draft picks in top 100 players where the vast majority of quality players are. Rounds 1 2 3 and top of 4th. Out of his last 6 picks, he cut 3, has 1 player, 1 disappointment and 1 unknown(Mays).

He needs to replace Jordy and Mathews with 1 or 2 speed WR and one or 2 top OLBs plus lot of other holes.
In 2017 he had 10 picks, cut 3 and maybe will get 5 players out of that draft depending on Adama and Beigle. Since this is how it works why not focus on top 100 players with less draft picks.
I remember he traded way up to get Mathews and that's his only trade up I remember.
Use one # 7 to get back Tasom Hill,, admit his failure.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Traded up for:
CM3
Burnett
Worthy
Hayward
Franklin
Hundley
Spriggs

Bure9620's picture

He also traded up to get Spriggs in the 2nd

CAG123's picture

My theory about DC defensive game plans is further proven with the Patriots (the worst D in the league)handling the Falcons every team but the Packers have played them competitively and they are a dropped (Chicago) and 1 inch short (Detroit) from being 1-5 Capers needs to go and we need a fresh defensive mind in his place his wacky defensive gimmicks aren’t doing this team any favors we need a simplified yet effective defense that plays into the players strengths

croatpackfan's picture

Well, to be honest, I am admirer of HC Mike McCarthy.

But this game was lost, not because 500 yards, not because 26 points, not because Dom Capers or lack of the talent on D.

This game was lost on bad, bad game plan made by Mike McCarthy and on bad playing by Brett Hundley. And that is that simple!

You can not turn the ball back twice in the row to the opponent imediatelly after you made INT. And that was what Packers did.

I am so disappointed that I can not tell you. But I'm so disappointed with you guys, in comment section. The worst player on D was beloved Kevin King. He gave 2 TD and a lot of 3rd and long passes that was ridiculous. And you were insisting on how King is 1st Packers CB. On the other hand, Damarious Randall was playing decent game, good game, but for many of you he is bust. That tells more about you than about players.

As conclusion, I state that this is the worst prepared and conducted game in Mike McCarthy carier...

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Yup, it is that simple. I wrote before this game that Randall looked to me like he had bounced back pretty well this year.

I have no idea how Jones can gain yards on 15 of his 17 carries for a 7.70 yd. average (even deducting the 46 and 21 yard gains he was still at a 4.26 yard average) and not have play action passes work well. Inconceivable. If NO's LBs bit on a run fake, I didn't see it, and Hundley was never able to complete a pass downfield all game.

Bure9620's picture

Randall was also.covering the slot, whereas Kevin Kind had Coleman and Thomas

Bure9620's picture

Randall was also.covering the slot, whereas Kevin Kind had Coleman and Thomas

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

We held NO to 7 points in the first half. True, Brees tossed 2 INTs, but one was on 3rd and 6 from the 20. An INC probably leads to a FG. House's was on 2nd and 7 with NO in long field goal range. Whether we give up points on that drive is open to question. If Brees doesn't throw the INTs, we give up perhaps 10 to 14 points in the first half. Not great, but far from terrible. Parts of the defense function reasonably well.

DL: I thought Clark, Daniels and at times Lowry provided some push.

OLBs: Invisible. 3 QB hits (one by Daniels, one by Clark and one by Perry - no surprises there).

CBs: House and Randall look like competent CBs to me. King has ups and downs. We seem to have all sorts of issues when in zone.

S: Dix misses a lot of run fits. Dix let a lot of short gains turn into longer or long ones, and he seems to want to avoid hitting the ground when he does tackle someone. Dix seems to be still standing after a lot of his tackles. Ingram's rushing TD was so easy after Dix got sucked inside: there was absolutely no one outside the tackle box to provide contain. Josh Jones missed run fits a lot. Martinez didn't get enough depth on the crosser to Thomas for a sizeable gain, but that's a mismatch. Brees just waited for Thomas to outrun Martinez laterally and the DB was late coming up to help.

Way too many whiffs by DBs coming up in support on running plays and short passes.

Prescription for the D: we need Brooks to get healthy and provide at least a moderate pass rush combined with run D, and for Perry's hand to fully heal. Need Burnett back. Need Josh Jones and King to mature out of their natural growing pains. We need House, King, Randall, Burnett, Martinez, Brooks, Perry, Clark and Daniels to be healthy. We need to figure out a way to make CM3 and Josh Jones more impactful.

ollie418's picture

Prescription for D. Fire Capers. Nothing else can work.

flackcatcher's picture

Both you and Croat summed it well. MM shares responsibility for not having his offense ready with adjustments to New Orleans in the second half. The lost of Morgan Burnett to this defense may be as great as Aaron Rodgers lost to this team. (this is something I do not say lightly) New Orleans is a weird team. On the road they are bad, at home they are really good. Today, they were good at every level, they out schemed, out coached, and out played the Packers in this game. I was really let down by how Brice and Evans played. Both have been in this system long enough to know their assignments. Like you guys said, injuries are killing this team. The bye week couldn't come soon enough.

jfajas's picture

Well, I was going to start with a "welcome to QB purgatory Packer fans"... But it certainly feels like we are in QB hell...
Brett Hundley was just horrible!
I mean, 80 yards passing????
I can already see every DC that's going to face us setting up their D with the motto: "make him throw".
This QB looks like a pick 6 waiting to happen...
I mean, in one a a half game as a starter Hundley as already what? 4 picks? And I bet this number must match his completions..
As for our D... well... same shit, different day...

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