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Packers biggest strength, weakness so far in training camp

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Packers biggest strength, weakness so far in training camp

The Green Bay Packers now have eight practices under their belt as they prepare for the 2015 season.

It's impossible to make meaningful judgments after eight practices, or label individual players as booms or busts. But we can still take the temperature of the team as each practice concludes and reports come in about certain players who have stood out, fallen behind, or gotten hurt.

If the season started today, after only eight practices, here's what I would consider the Packers biggest strength and biggest weakness.

(Note: Obviously, Aaron Rodgers is the Packers' biggest strength. But writing these posts wouldn't be much fun if we just listed his name over and over again.)

Strength

Wide receivers. Jordy Nelson doesn't appear to be slowed down by offseason hip surgery. Randall Cobb still appears to be Randall Cobb after signing a fat new contract. Ty Montgomery looks like yet another receiver find for Ted Thompson. Davante Adams hasn't gotten many balls in practice, but nobody is saying that he's taken a step backward in his second season, either.

Heck, even Myles White is having a strong camp.

It's shaping up to be another fun season for Packers wide receivers. The group has it all -- talent, experience, depth, and a quarterback with the ability to elevate the entire group.

Weakness

Linebacker. It's weird labeling a position group that includes Clay Matthews and Julius Pepper as a weakness, but I don't have much of a choice. Nick Perry and Mike Neal have always been injury-prone and average players at best. Less than two weeks into camp, both players have already missed time with injuries. Matthews is also dinged up as he prepares for whatever inside or outside role he'll be playing.

Other injured linebackers include Jayrone Elliott, Josh Francis and Adrian Hubbard. 

Getting rid of A.J. Hawk and Brad Jones was supposed to be an addition-by-subtraction sort of thing. So far, the Packers have continued subtracting at the position thanks to injuries. As camp continues, we'll see if the Packers start hitting the "+" button on their calculators at the linebacker position.

Other thoughts

  • I considered tight end for the weakness slot, but went with linebackers because the Packers receivers, offensive line and Rodgers should be able to compensate for not having a strong tight end group.
  • By most accounts, the Packers young defensive backs are showing promise. Defensive back would probably have gotten the weakness slot if I wrote this before camp started.
  • Would it have been crazy to list offensive line as the team's strength? I don't think so. If the Packers offensive line stays healthy and plays like it did last season, the Packers will win the Super Bowl.
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  • 0 points

Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (69) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Nick Perry's picture

Entering his 3rd season stronger, more experienced, Bakhtiari should be better and Sitton and Lang are the best Guard tandem in the NFL. Bulaga is the best RT in the NFL right now. Now with Corey Lindsey already ranked the 5th best Center in the NFL as a rookie making that 2nd year jump, the Packers O-Line will be mentioned in the same sentence with the Cowboys O-Line, and it should be!

The Packers front 7 on defense will be the reason whether or not the Packers win SB 50 IMO. Just a top 15 defense is all they need to bring #5 home. If they can stay healthy I honestly believe this team can't be stopped. That offense is going to be absolutely scary good and I for one hope they hang 40 on the Seahawks in their home opener. Move along folks, no 2014 hangover here!!!

Evan's picture

And look at where the Cowboys o-line was all drafted. I think 4/5 were 1st or 2nd round picks.

Nick Perry's picture

EXACTLY!! If I could have given you 2 thumbs up I would have.

Steve Cheez's picture

I gave him one for you, Nick.

Nick Perry's picture

LOL...Thanks Steve!!!

Allan Murphy's picture

Nick Perry needs to stay healthy ..................................

Nick Perry's picture

Sorry was a double post... : )

WKUPackFan's picture

Adam, missing Surviving Sunday already. Can't you still include some suggested reading or wrestling news at the end your post, at least until the season starts?

adamczech's picture

Just for you WKUPackFan:

*Here's a great read on why Chris Rock and Jerry Seinfeld no longer perform on college campuses (Hint: It's because the atmosphere/culture at universities has become overly politically correct). http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/thats-not-funny/399335/

*Here's Woody Paige on one of those ESPN talking head/screaming shows telling a great story about Rowdy Roddy Piper during a commercial break: https://youtu.be/U1LADs_ZIVA

dobber's picture

"(Hint: It's because the atmosphere/culture at universities has become overly politically correct)."

As someone who teaches at the college level, I can say that "overly politically correct" is putting it mildly...

John Galt III's picture

....and at Ivy League Universities you get to pay $65,000 for an object lesson in Gleichschaltung. When I was at Harvard in the 1970's this crap was just getting started. Fortunately, back then the school was $3,400 a year and my GI Bill paid it. I wouldn't bother even going there today. Waste of money.

WKUPackFan's picture

It's pretty much everywhere. My 24 year old daughter (bragging, excuse me) graduated summa cum laude, double major (political science and journalism advertising) from Western Kentucky. However, she was a Republican and fortunate enough to attend several CPACs and the 2012 RNC.

Her poly sci department head (minority female) tried to fail her in her last class on a wrongfully applied technicality. She had to go the Dean of the College to get relief.

ray nichkee's picture

I am not republican or democrat, i guess i dont claim a party, i have never liked donald trump, his hair, or his faces but i am considering voting for him because he is so politically uncorrect. We will be forever kicking the can around going back and forth with 2 parties bickering at each other. This year i may vote for the entertainment value. The president has just become a puppet with a microphone and a fancy house these days. Sorry, im done ranting, i just hate the politically correct movement.

Allan Murphy's picture

Bernie Sanders bro .............

ray nichkee's picture

Mr. Allan murphy, you missed the fucking point. This aint a damn political discussion board. I did not intend to turn it into one either. you should dislike me because you are 100% for political correctness, not because you are for BS. Go grill a sandwich with wonder bread and american cheese product, then wash it down with a busch lite and watch reality tv with the rest of the degenerates.

Bearmeat's picture

Seconded by someone who also is a prof: GOOD LORD THIS IS SO TRUE!!

Thankfully, the PC machine has already started eating itself. I look forward to the day that disagreeing with someone does not mean you have to fear for your job because of "hate speech" or "intolerance"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2015/06/01/the-endle...

That said, the "Higher Ed being run like a corporation" model by the politicians and administrators is also schlock. Why can't people have common sense? Educating students in order to help them create a richer (in more ways than one) life is NOT like reporting to a board of directors on a stock market offering! Unfortunately, this is gaining hold on the psyche of the public - and it effects the quality of education, range of topics offered, and academic freedom.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/09/college-is-n...

WKUPackFan's picture

Thanks for the links Bear! The first article was very interesting, and disturbing. I agree with you about the corporation model also. Unfortunately, that's going to be a tough battle. As tuition continues to climb, more students are concentrating on majors that will hopefully provide a lucrative career. If the trend continues our universities will become upper level trade schools (not that there's anything wrong with trade schools).

Bearmeat's picture

Unfortunately, we are completely agreed. :(

WKUPackFan's picture

Thanks Adam!

John StackDecker's picture

Hey Guys,

This is a football forum for the GB Packers. Please take your right wing bullshit somewhere else. I come here to read about football and read other people's opinions. I do not care how threatened you are by some perceived oppressive political correctness.

Talk the draft, camp, or transactions and I'm there. Editorialize about your sorry political ideas and affiliations and you are fucking up this site.

Have a great night.

4thand1's picture

Bravo! You deserve a million likes, John.

WKUPackFan's picture

Your comment better not be directed me.

Bearmeat's picture

You obviously doesn't know how "surviving Sunday" columns worked at allgbp. It's one of my (and many others) favorite columns every week of the offseason. And assuming that Aaron isn't going to mute his new writers (which I seriously doubt), it's not going to stop in the offseason any time soon. The bottom line is that some really good discussions have been had that have mostly managed to be respectful. Unlike your response to our mostly respectful dialogue above.

You are right that there isn't time on football boards during the season. But I see no harm being done during the 1st week of the preseason though. The games are dreadful and not important other than avoiding injuries.

Now, in response to your point that I (and others like WKU and Adam) are "effing this site up:"

1. Calling someone "right wing" about "perceived" (aka deluded) fears because you don't agree with them is EXACTLY the kind of BS that goes on around college campuses nationwide. I work at one. I've spent plenty of time as a student, TA and Prof at others. I've done this for years. I know what I'm talking about.

2. Hating the corporate model of education is actually a liberal slant on higher education. You do know that right? So you calling people "right wing" when they agree about 1 conservative statement (hating PC culture) and 1 liberal statement (hating the corporatization of universities across the country) makes you either ill informed or so far left on the political spectrum that even a relatively liberal opinion isn't left enough for you to agree with it.

So I politely ask that you refrain from slamming people for their opinions about issues they live in and you (probably) don't.

ray nichkee's picture

Thanks for the intelligence bearmeat. I know i was part of this long thread and admit i go back and read additional comments. I backed what i said by not claiming a party and not wanting it to become political. I just like it when i hear about non PC opinions in a time where most people use some sort of slang in every discussion.

Until the 2015 team starts to take shape this will continue to be just another way to communicate with people around the world who all have one thing in common- we love the packers.....well except for that ballsack ben or cow or his many other names.

WKUPackFan's picture

Mr. Stackdecker, I endorse everything Bear said about your intrusion into our conversation. I could tell you take your obvious left wing enthusiasm somewhere else.

IF you had a brain, and iF you had reading comprenhension, you would have understood that Bear's, JohnGault's, and my discussion was about the state of higher education. It had nothing to do with politics. Butt out of our conversations, or go do to yourself what accused us of doing to the board.

WKUPackFan's picture

Oh, and Stackdecker, I'm not your "guy". You obviously lack the guts to respond to Bear or me. Perhaps you'd like to come to Louisville and talk your s**t to my face. 1617 Sutherland Drive 40205. My children are grown, I have few responsibilities, so taking care of you would be a pleasure. It's time to take out the trash.

Bearmeat's picture

Take it easy WKU....

WKUPackFan's picture

Sorry, I apologize to you and Nagler, wish I had never lookied at the follow up comments this morning. I don't apologize to that cretin.

gr7070's picture

This is absurd:
"By most accounts, the Packers young defensive backs are showing promise. Defensive back would probably have gotten the weakness slot if I wrote this before camp started."

The DBs are the best unit of the defense.

The line has Mike Daniels and absolutely nothing else to speak of! Nothing. Else.

While the LBs have Matthews, that's about it, too. Perry and Neal are likely below average. If Peppers plays like the last handful of games he is average at best (probably played wiser than that), too. Nothing inside, so much so that we're wasting Matthews at the least important position.

The DBs have an OK Shields, a star in Hayward (if healthy), decent safeties and promise in two top picks for rookies. Plus a couple other contributors like our RFA resigning. That's the best group of the D.

Nick Perry's picture

Hard to agree that we're wasting Matthews inside after last year and it's the least important position. Hell after the bye it seems it was the most important position considering the defense was ranked 6th and 8th in total yards and rushing yards after the bye, and like 28th and 31st before it.

The TKstinator's picture

Consider the possibility that if a DC from another team got such dramatic improvement by moving one defensive player to a new position, that DC would likely be applauded as a "genius". But here in GB, Dom gets to enjoy no such regard. Often, quite the opposite.
Not that fans' opinion is really the be-all, end-all, (especially when you consider that many fans think they'd be better playcallers than MM has been), but, come on, man!

ray nichkee's picture

I get my undies in a bunch when i hear people calling for capers head. Just look what he did in 2010. Its obvious TT loaded up on offense lately. Some of his defensive picks havnt worked out that well. I dont blame anybody. You take the good with the bad. Every player will not be a home run. I wasnt sold on the signing of capers because i thought he was washed out after his last stops but some people are meant to be coordinators and dont do as well as a head coach. (example norv turner) i see a turn towards stocking the defense in the next few drafts. As long as thompson, mccarthy, and capers are there the pack will be fun to watch.

After saying that somebody new may come in and do an excellent job on the staff/office but rodgers is the one im worried about replacing. Until then i will enjoy what i have to watch. Be greatfull and go pack!

The TKstinator's picture

Much in agreement. Gotta have the horses. Are the top defenses in the NFL so successful because of their DC's? I say, hell no.

gr7070's picture

I think DC has done a solid if not better job. He can't play D,and he has had very few tools - almost nothing on D line and LB for him to work with.

Ted's defensive picks just haven't panned out as well on D add on O.

Nick Perry's picture

That was exactly my point gr7070, Capers has been asked to field a top defense with less, he doesn't have the players. There is the fact everywhere Capers has coached his defenses drop off dramatically from his 1st and 2nd season to his 3rd and 4th season with that new team. There's a pattern there that can't be denied.

Capers 1st and 2nd season his defenses played well in Green Bay and ranked highly in the NFL. By year 3 his defense was ranked last in the NFL. Not resigning Jenkins or at least replacing him hurt but nothing set them back more than losing Collins in week 2.

The Packers had 20 picks in the 2011 & 12 drafts, 10 were defensive players. Of those picks Daniels, Hayward, and Perry remain. My point being is exactly what you said, he hasn't had the tools to work with.

Nick Perry's picture

I've been critical of Capers in the past but have a new found respect for him now. For years I've heard the "What If's." For example, What if Ron Wolf provided Brett Favre with better WR? (Please people, JUST A EXAMPLE)

Look what Capers did by having Guion stepping up at NT, an extra pass rusher in Peppers, even a older Peppers and moving Matthews inside. The defense improved dramatically the last 8 games. Without Peppers could the Packers have done that? IMO I don't think so. Obviously players like Barrington and HHCD being better as the season went on helped. My point is, it seems as though Capers is always asked to do more with less yet we're all critical of him, myself included.

4thand1's picture

I don't think its absurd gr. The secondary is really young now and we won't know how it will look this season. Raji looks like the Raji of old and Guion can hold his own. The d-line may surprise a lot of people. linebackers, who knows. I say Mulumba will be good if not really good.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I disagree with gr. We have only one proven boundary CB. Lots of possibilities, and I think Hayward won't be terrible, but I question his durability. The best you can say is that there is a nice amount of young talent and possibilities there. As someone said, if the front 7 is bad, you get gashed a few times - if your boundary CB sucks, you're in trouble.

At DL, I see 5 NFL caliber players in Daniels, Guion, Raji, Boyd (situational) and Datone (situational pass rusher). At LB I see 4 NFL caliber OLBs (counting CM3 - call it 3.5?) and 2 NFL caliber ILBs. I think CM3 will return to elite status rotating inside and out. I think Peppers is above average (though I agree that his play has been somewhat overvalued but he may improve in his 2nd year at OLB). While we need one guy to step up at ILB, and it would be nice for a guy to step up at OLB, we only need them to be situational guys, not a starter or near starter.

gr7070's picture

Most of those NFL-caliber players you list are known to be on the bottom half of "NFL-caliber" the only unknowns we have are the rookies and Hayward's games played. When Hayward has played he's been a stud - just hasn't played enough.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I concede that a couple of the guys on the DL, while NFL caliber guys, are so far on the lower side of average. I do think Guion will be better as a DE than he was as an NT. I am not known as a fan of Raji but I think a good year can be coaxed out of him in his contract year.

Hayward played like a stud last year because GB limited his snaps to situations for which he is well suited, mainly playing the slot and in zone. I don't think he will be terrible at outside CB, but I don't think he will be as good as Tramon, who was in decline. The future looks brighter at CB with the rookie talent, just not sure about when. Hope you're right about Hayward and the rookies. Go Pack!

gr7070's picture

How does Raji look like anything? He's had a couple practices. That's an absurd statement.

4thand1's picture

A couple? The word from camp is he's having a really good camp. Down to 327 and is quicker. That's just the players and coaches talking, wtf do I know.

Dan Stodola's picture

Here's a link to inform you just a bit.

http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/22060/why-the-1-on-1...

You might want to notice that Raji is outplaying Daniels to this point in training camp by this measure, which takes not only if you won a matchup, but who you won against and their strength of play.

Was it a waste when Matthews was moved around the last 1/2 of '14? Really? Before the change in strategy (and it was a change in strategy much more than a change of position for Matthews) he had 2.5 sacks and little tackle production. After the change he had 8.5 sack in 9 games and doubled his tackle production. Does that seem like a waste of his ability? Heck no. Seems like they went about MAXIMIZING his abilities.

After the change of strategy, Matthews still ONLY played 28% of his snaps at ILB. That's less than 1/2 of the nickel package which was by far the package that Matthews was at ILB for. Matthews talents actually were maximized by the change and it got another better player (Perry) on the field in place of Jones or Hawk.

Playing SOME ILB takes advantage of all of Matthews skills and abilities. One those skills is pass rushing, but hardly the only one. Matthews is actually better at Weak ILB against the run than he is at OLB. At ILB he is able to use his speed and playmaking ability to chase the ball, whereas at OLB he has to set the edge. I think its obvious Matthews is better being a playmaker instead of setting an edge. Perry can do that as well or better than Matthews can.

Matthews is also really good in coverage from his HS and early college yrs when he played Safety. Much better in coverage than any other LB on the roster. Plus OT having to block against Perry's power game helps Matthews speed and explosiveness turning the corner, since the OT isn't as ready or used to Matthews speed at style.

Nothing about the moving around of Matthews was a waste. Its was maximizing ALL his skills and abilities and getting better players on the field.

The TKstinator's picture

Well put.

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Allan Murphy's picture

What the HELL is going on out there ?

The TKstinator's picture

Grab, grab, grab!

ray nichkee's picture

Some substance please? A few words can say alot but you mr murphy have diarrhea of the fingers.

Bearmeat's picture

....Ray's got his undies in a bundle about something.... lol @cranky old dudes

zeke's picture

I was about to post a comment telling everyone to chillax, but I stopped myself. Oh, wait. Dammit.

ray nichkee's picture

Bearmeat, i wont take that as negative. I hope your having fun with it. Your comments usually have some substance. The best bearmeat i ever had was a roast slow cooked with sour kraut and potatoes. Mmm, no knife needed.

Im not an old dude and not cranky. I just want people to be intelligent, have perspective, and most of all have a sense of humor. I spend a lot of time helping out the less fortunate but when i hear something that sounds like a retarded bigot i respond. Most posters here are smart and i like scrolling through the comments even if my opinion is different. I dont always post if i have nothing to add but i will on occasion like or dislike or post my own.

Bearmeat's picture

lol. I've never actually eaten bear. But I have seen fillet of Cutler twice a year for the past 6.

NewNikeShoes's picture

dude, u missed a chance to say smoked cutler
in my world, cutler is as much a hero as he is a legend

ray nichkee's picture

How about lion meat? It seems everyone is in outrage over a lion killed in africa but lions have been being killed in detroit for years and the only protest ive seen is paper bags over the heads of fans.

Note: this is not politically correct and It wasnt meant to be. If you dont like it you must wear ladies underwear. (I wouldnt shoot a lion unless i was hungry or feared for my life)

4thand1's picture

Have you ever seen a bear skinned? looks like a human hangin there.

The TKstinator's picture

What a gross image: "diarrhea of the fingers".

EdsLaces's picture

Whoever said the Secondary is our strong suit is 100% correct. Peppers and Clay will hold down the LB fort for the most part. Barrington will be pretty solid. We literally just need about 1 linebacker and 1 DL to step up that is it! 2 freaking players ...cmon Dom let's figure out who these guys are and make our freaking superbowl run!!!!

gr7070's picture

That guy talking about the secondary being the best defensive unit is a genius.

gr7070's picture

I just read the below this evening from an excellent objective analytics site. It's certainly a better "opinion" than from the rise colored glasses.

"It's the linemen and linebackers that could really pose problems for the Packers' defense though."

https://m.numberfire.com/nfl/news/5816/2015-nfc-north-preview-green-bay-...

EdsLaces's picture

How depressing haha

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Thanks for the interesting article, GR7070. Projects GB at 9-7 or 10-6. Either the author does not think as much of Hayward as you do (a stud who just needs snaps) or the author thinks very highly of Randall and Rollins: "... but Micah Hyde and Casey Hayward could get pushed for playing time if rookies Damarious Randall and Quinten Rollins impress early. Even if there isn't a true starter right away opposite of Shields, all could see playing time...." The lack of a 2nd true starting-quality outside CB was my concern.

Nick Perry's picture

If the Packers are in their "Base Defense" which they play maybe 20% of the time, they have one change to the defense, Hayward instead of Tramon. Hyde, HHCD, and Burnett don't move and Shields might switch from the right to the left side. In nickel Randell or Rollins come in and dime maybe both or Richardson, depending on the opposing offense. Maybe Hayward plays in the slot so how much change is there really? The bottom line is the Packers are replacing an aging CB (Williams), who gave up 14 TD's last year.

I'm still much more concerned about the front 7 than the secondary.

Note: Tony McDaniel was signed for $2.5 million with Tampa Bay. Seems affordable to me for a proven DT that's only 30 years old.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Nick, I think you've made a good case for your position. Here are some issues with your case. 1st: Tramon played 1012 defensive snaps (92.5% of possible snaps). Somehow I don't think Hayward will come close to that number. 2nd: Hayward played 426 snaps (39% of all def. snaps), mostly in the slot and mostly in zone, and he excelled. PFF gave him god-like scores. Now that Hayward isn't going to play those snaps there, whoever replaces Hayward will be a downgrade. No, Hyde played 704 snaps last year, so he isn't going to suck up those snaps, and Hyde has different strengths than Hayward, and probably would still be a downgrade to the extent that he replaces Hayward in zone. 3rd: Tramon had a bad yr. last year, maybe a blip but maybe age. Will Hayward be as good, better or worse than Tramon? IDK, though I don't think Hayward will be terrible. House played 405 snaps. Btw House and Tramon, GB has to replace 1417 snaps. Hayward might increase his snaps by 500 if he actually is healthy all year, so call it 900 snaps that need filling by Randall, Rollins, Goodson, etc. Daunting, IMO.

As to the DL, everyone is back. Daniels remains the same. I view Raji as an upgrade over Guion, and if not Guion will return to NT after his 1, 2, or 3 game suspension. I view Guion as an upgrade over Boyd at DE. If not, we still have Boyd and Datone who remain unchanged, unless the light comes on for one of them. That is 5 guys who at least can play in the NFL, though I conceded above that two of them might be below average starters, rotational, or good back-ups. GB usually only carries 6 on the DL. I haven't heard much about Pennel. Thornton, Ringo, and Gaston, as far as I know, haven't impressed anyone.

At LB, everyone who played well after the bye is back. I expect CM3 and Barrington both to be at least the same or a little better at ILB. I like Ryan for later in the season, and have modest hope for Bradford or Thomas. I was high on Dantzler, but heard only crickets on him. Peppers, Neal and Perry should be OK at OLB with an assist from CM3, and Mulumba, Elliott and perhaps Hubbard provide depth/ possibilities.

tm_inter's picture

List of injured linebackers is worrisome:

Matthews (knee soreness)
Perry (groin)
Neal (hernia)
Elliot (shoulder)
Hubbard (groin)
Josh Francis (hip)

Who do we have left at outside linebackers besides Peppers? Only UDFAs I think: James Vaughters, Jermauria Rasco, and Tavarus Dantzler.

NewNikeShoes's picture

no Hubbard got wanker's cramp

Himmat Rathore's picture

Lets See What Come Out ! https://baypackersfan.wordpress.com

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http://www.vitrier-paris-artisan.fr/
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http://www.anti-punaise-de-lit-paris.entreprise-traitement-anti-punaise-...
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http://www.plombier-brest-artisan.fr/
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http://www.serrurier-grenoble.serrurier-paris-artisan.fr/
http://www.serrurier-paris-artisan.fr/cylindres/

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