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Packers: 23 Vikings: 14

By Category

Packers: 23 Vikings: 14

Morgan Burnett, James Starks, Jermichael Finley

The Bad

The Bad

Evan Dietrich-Smith, Tramon Williams, Fullback Dive

The Bad

The Bad

Packers' Tackling



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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (71) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Derek's picture

I was listening to the NFL radio broadcast and the color guy said EDS had a very bad game. The OLine is going to have it's hands full. Wished I could've watched it, but glad they won another division game nonetheless.

Idiot Fan's picture

It had seemed to me like the coaching staff sees EDS as the center of the future. I'm wondering if they're starting to rethink that based on his play so far. Or maybe guard is different enough from center that it's not such a big deal?

Twodollarbill's picture

Other than the gifts Ponder sent his way, I was actually pretty disappointed in Burnett. The tackling issue was mainly him and Jennings if I remember correctly.

Also, House rebounded from last week and Casey was great as usual.

Tony's picture

Burnett's "filling" on run plays is pathetic.

Oppy's picture

Burnett is leading the Packers in tackles this season.

Burnett had a really poor attempted tackle on one of AP's big runs, but despite fans' angst over Burnett's performance this season, he has been a pretty darn sound tackler in general, and he's actually having a very good season, although he has lacked "Splash" or "impact" plays.

Seeing Burnett go out and reel in two INTs on Sunday was great, and who knows, maybe he has just turned the corner confidence-wise and is ready to start adding those types of big plays to his already good (though understated) season he's been having.

Evan's picture

He easily could have 5 or 6 INTs with how many have gone through his hands so far this season. It was great to see him finally reel some in.

RC Packer Fan's picture

I will add Alex Green to the good. I thought he played really well to.

I would remove Tramon Williams from bad mostly because i didn't see him do anything horrible. To me his penalty on a defensless player was a bad call.
I would consider adding MD Jennings to bad mostly for his tackle attempt on AP. that was pathetic.

Also in the bad-ugly category. Injuries to key players. Jordy Nelson going down again. hurts..
But the main one I wanted to add. The REFS!
How many bad holding calls were there? The one against Lang was horrible and that took a TD off the score board.

Also missing 1 for sure facemask on randall cobb and another that could have been called. The penalty against Williams was weak. And the only penalty that helped the packers the roughing the QB, was a bad call.
I am really getting tired of refs impacting the Packers games.

Evan's picture

I honestly don't understand how people are taking issue with the Tramon penalty. He launched himself into a defenseless receiver and, though maybe accidental, there was helmet to helmet contact.

Beep's picture

Watch the game without your green and gold tinted glasses, there were bad calls both ways. The refs helped the Packers out too.
Rodgers threw an interception to Jared Allen and they reversed it on a laughable roughing the passer that offset a Barclay holding penalty. That INT would have been a HUGE momentum swing away from the Packers giving the ball to the Vikes on our 26 yard line with the score Min 14 - GB 10.

I'm so tired of everyone thinking the refs have it out for the Packers.

Evan's picture

Only when it comes to holding penalties...

Seriously, according to yesterday's refs' definition of holding, Clay Matthews gets held on literally every snap.

MarkinMadison's picture

I'm remembering one play that folks are complaining about where the Packer O-lineman reached out and had his hands on the outside of the shoulder pads. I've always thought this would get a flag. Maybe it is the inconsistency that is killing folks right now.

Beep's picture

I'll agree the holding has been inconsistently called, especially for CM3. But at the same point, half the time our DL isn't generating enough pass rush to even warrant being held.

T's picture

So out of all the bad roughing the QB calls you have seen going against the Packers, this is the one you decided is laughable?

The bad holding call on the TD drive is not only a game changer, but also huge momentum swing for the Vikes. But unlike the Seattle game, the Packers had a chance to make it up.

Bob Tundra's picture

If you watched the Packers' games this season, you'd know exactly why Packer Fans are complaining about the poor officiating. I'll bet McCarthy has had plenty to say on the officiating this season, as well. The refs have been terrible this season. There should be no argument on this.

RC Packer Fan's picture

If you re-read what I typed, I said that the 1 penalty that helped the Packers was the roughing the QB. I said that it was a bad call. However if you watch the play over again live, you can see the guy going high at the QB. "Launching" and that is what was called.
The biggest momentum swing the Vikings got with the bad Lang holding penalty. They took a TD off the score board and the packers added a field goal. Instead of being up 14-0 they are up 10-0. Thats huge. Thats a big momentum shifting call.
I have seen alot worse hits on defenseless receivers not get called. His helmet did hit the WR's but he didn't lead with his helmet and it wasn't a headshot. they just hit. Its football that happens...
The packers had alot more bad calls go their way then the vikings. Can't argue with that.

Evan's picture

"His helmet did hit the WR’s"

That's all that matters. It might just be football (I agree), but in today's NFL that's a textbook penalty.

Mojo's picture

I'm tired of hearing how Tramon's personal foul was a textbook case of helmet-to-helmet. If you watch an NFL game, any game closely, you will see numerous incidents where a DB's helmet comes in contact with a receivers during a pass-play that are NOT called a penalty.

If you want to go by the strict interpretation of every rule, the game would be unplayable. A good example is holding, where one ref will let things go, while on the exact same play, another would throw a flag. I think there are times even, the same ref will call the exact same play differently, depending on crowd noise or God knows what.

Because no flags are thrown on similar plays around the NFL, you don't take notice. Next time you watch a game, try to take stock of helmet-to-helmet contact. You'll be surprised how often refs don't call anything.

Evan's picture

It was more than just a simple helmet-to-helmet, though. The WR was also "defenseless" and Tramon launched himself. All 3 of those taken together is why I call it "textbook."

And just because it's not called in other cases doesn't make Tramon's penalty any less clear cut. Refs miss stuff all the time, it doesn't take anything away from the times they get things right.

SoTxPhil's picture

I believe that the Packers were called for 6 holding penalties which only 2 were obvious and should have been called. On the other side, I don't remember any against the Vikings even when a Packer was blocked in the back right in front of the ref on AP's second long run. GB lost a TD on a ticky tac shirt tug, so I don't see why you're so upset about the roughing penalty on AR when the guy clearly hit him way after he threw the ball. You were just listening to Joe Buck(a Cowboy fan and Packer hater) explain it to you. Mr. Muscles has never reffed a game in GB's favor since giving Elway his first SB gift.

NoWayJose's picture

RC, did you see Tramon's effort on AP's 82 yard TD? It is "BAD." Just as bad as MD's miss.

BrianD's picture

For Tramon I'll agree to remove him from the bad. He had a great deep pass breakup when he needed to make the play.

Cobb's facemask was barely grazed by a defender. I wouldn't want that to be called a penalty for any team in the league.

RC Packer Fan's picture

The main one on cobb that I was talking about was done by Brinkley. Where he completely turned cobb's head and body. Clear facemask.

I can see on Williams play on the WR that in today's league they will call that. I just think its a bad call though. I have seen alot worse not called then that.
I personally didn't see him launching himself at the WR, I felt he was trying to make a play on the ball, which is still supposed to be legal. A clear launching penalty is last week when Jeron McMillan Launched at Bennett in the end zone.

The inconsistancy is what bothered me the most. That is my whole point in this.

djprotege's picture

Wow, haven't seen Jmike in the good category in a long time! I think Barclay should be in the good as well. Stepped in to play RT and filled in nicely for Lang. Like MM said, didnt have to change the play calling for him.

California Cheesehead's picture

As Finley made another solid catch I'm sitting there at the bar with my girlfriend yelling "What the hell's going on, here? Is this 2009??? Look at Finley catching footballs!" Followed by quit celebrating every one and keep catching 'em.

Djprotege's picture

I hate the celebrating on a 1st down as well

Lou's picture

You must have not looked at the defensive stats, Walden was not listed (again), he is back to being the worst outside LB to hold the point in the league AGAIN. Moses or Zombo need to replace him when Mathews comes back. Too bad Perry went down, he could hold the point. As good as Cobb is as a return man he needs to go north and south or be replaced on punts, in the old days Willie Wood retreated on punts with the same results.

imma fubared's picture

1. O line wasn't that bad. Obviously refs discuss packers penchant for holding before the game and call it as they see it but they are definitely zeroing in on it.
2.By now, even football players in Ubikastan know that any, any, any helmet to helmet contact is going to be called all day long. The players know this so stop bitchin about it like it didn't happen. Until the league adjust and comes up with an 'unintentional helmet to helmet hit' they are calling it!
3. This past week I've heard numerous sports analyst blame a lot of Rogers sacks on Rogers himself. There take is he is holding onto the ball way too long looking for the perfect pass or the play to break farther down field and passing up the shorter easier passes that the defense is giving him.
When he did the slant pass to FIndley and a couple of other short rockets, I saw the old Rogers again and no one had a chance to put a hand on him either and the o line held for the second and a half.
3. Hopefully Crosby is back. Good to see him kick a couple down the middle.
4. What scares me is if the Vikes end up with a good QB who can run and pass. They have the all around talent to be a very good team for a very long time.
5. Still no pass rush. and apparently worse, no run stopping. Just what it is Raji is supposed to be doing I don't know but it ain't the Raji from last year out there that's for sure.
5. Linebacker play ok and the DB's again saved the day. At least the road is a little easier now that the Lions, Vikes and Bears losts.

Evan's picture

"What scares me is if the Vikes end up with a good QB"

Since the Vikes have shown zero ability to find a quality QB, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Nerd's Laptop's picture

What you say about "helmet to helmet" penalties is only true of DEFENSIVE players.

I think it's called somewhat subjectively too.

I believe the NFL is altering the game to promote offense, and that it is destroying the integrity of the game.

The poster formerly known as Bearmeat's picture

IMO Lang with a busted up elbow is no good at RT. Put him back at LG and put Barclay at RT for the rest of the year. Save EDS for Center after Saturday retires in February.

Wagszilla's picture

I'm glad Tramon is finally making "the bad" based off of name recognition alone!

Will Tippet's picture

The question is what is better for the GBP LANG/Barclay or EDS/LANG

Discussion topic for this week

Evan's picture

I said last week (without ever seeing Barclay play) that Lang/Barclay would be better if only because it keeps 4/5 of the o-line intact.

Djprotege's picture

Moses needs to be opposite clay when he gets back.

Charlie M's picture

On passing downs, yes. But Moses was being dominated on run plays to the tune of being replaced with Zombo in the 2nd half.

Evan's picture

Peter King today: "Said it before this year and I'll say it again: Green Bay wide receiver James Jones is as underrated as any other receiver in the league. Look at the highlight of the first touchdown of the Green Bay-Minnesota game, how Jones picked the touchdown pass off the head of the Vikings DB in the end zone. What hands."

Can you imagine anyone praising Jones' hands even last year? What a turnaround for him.

Nerd's Laptop's picture

When he can turn and face the QB, he's money.

Oppy's picture

Are you talking about Jarrett Bush?

Walty's picture

He's our strong and aggressive wide receiver. He compliments the other 3 so damn well.

D.D. Driver's picture

Did the Packer's run a fullback dive? I don't remember one.

I do remember a delay (which was horrible).

packeraaron's picture

They ran both a delay and a dive out of shotgun formation with Kuhn. And I threw things both times.

NoWayJose's picture

Horrible moments in the game to call it both times too.

1) 3rd and 1: The most predictable MM playcall ever.

2) 1st and 20: A play designed to get 3-4 yards maybe, when you need average 7 a pop to get the first.

Walty's picture

And 3-4 yards would be miraculous for a John Kuhn dive.

D.D. Driver's picture

You don't run the FB out of the shotgun formation. We agree there.

It's a matter of physics. P=m*v. Momentum equals mass times velocity. What makes the FB dive a good option on short yardage is FB has a head of steam punching into the line. When you hand the ball off to a stationary FB, it's always going to be awful.

packeraaron's picture

<em>What makes the FB dive a good option on short yardage is FB has a head of steam punching into the line</em>

And my issue has always been that the Kuhn dive in this offense is so beyond obvious, so clearly used in certain situations, that said line the FB is heading into with a full "head of steam" is always a yard behind the first down marker because the defense knows its coming and this offensive line does not win in that scenario. Ever.

D.D. Driver's picture

Except when they do (and have).

You have to be able to pick up a yard running the football the vast majority of the time. That is just what competent offenses do. If you can't: you are doing it wrong.

Point Packer's picture

I was so happy to see the FB dive in the "bad" category. Thank you.

If you recall, they also ran this play on 2nd and 5th around the 37 yard line of the Giants with the game tied 7-7. The Pack had momentum after just scoring and getting a three and out. The play lost a yard (or so) and put the Pack in an obvious passing down, which the G-men capitalized on with a sack and which led to another 50 + FG shank by Crosby. It didn't doom the game, but it didn't help either.

Why McCarthy continues to run that play is beyond me. I hope some smart football answer regarding keeping the D honest exists that a layman like me wouldn't understand.

Kills me every time.

Corporate cheesehead's picture

The fb dive would be a better option if it was behind a center with a name like pouncy instead of after a day of the week ...

D.D. Driver's picture

BTW: I still hate shotgun in short yardage for this very reason. I'm learning to cope and block out my anger but it hasn't been easy.

A_Lerxst_in_Packerland's picture

You're not the only one. It has taken some effort to overcome my natural urge to yell or throw something when they go shotgun on short yardage.

Now I just groan and shake my head...

PackerBacker's picture

I found my loudest screams were when it was 3rd and 1 and AR had 5 yds of open space in front of him and he decides to throw the ball 15 yds down field.

Dude, get the first.

There were many expletives on that one.

Nerd&#039;s Laptop's picture


Dude is playing for his stat sheet, to the detriment of winning individual games.

Mike's picture

I wish Mashed Potato Mike would just "throw" the FB dive out of the freakin playbook! I dont think its ever worked and Starks would at least burst and drag a defender for 1.5 yards. I think Mashed Potato Mike just likes hearing KUUUUUUUHHHHHHHN!

cheesy4's picture

Are you sure they are yelling Kuuuuuuuuhhhhhhn or are they yelling Booooooooo! ???

djprotege's picture

UGLY - MM not using Starks more, especially on 3rd and 1. Stop it with that Kuhn stuff

Mike's picture

+1 on the FB dive crap. I do not agree about Finley's emotions! Im glad he's excited after that tough 3rd down snatch with Greenway all over him. Thats worth being excited about and helped ice the queens.

mark's picture

Been great to see Finley get back into the groove. But he can be even better, just remember that AZ playoff game...

Seriously though, if this team makes the playoffs and goes on a run, I bet the resurgence of 88 will be a big reason why.

He's always had the talent.

But man alive, chill with the celebrations. There was one first down where he basically, though unintentionally, threw a purple guy off of himself to do the shark fin dance. Could've been 15. Act like you've been there, 88.

MarkinMadison's picture

Did you think about Barclay for the "good" category? I want to re-watch the game, but it looked to me like there was no drop-off when Lang left. Honestly, they looked really good running right with Barclay. I think we all probably expected a lot less from a rookie UDFA.

Chris's picture

Add Barclay to the Good and the starting rotation. He is head and shoulders above EDS and put Lang back in his starting spot.

IDK what happened to M. Burnett and T. Williams this year but I am a little underwhelmed by their play. I thought by now Williams would have had a couple stand out games this season.

I think it's good they finally start to look Finley's way more as he is a solid mis-match.

Evan's picture

The Vikings WRs didn't have a catch until there was like 3 minutes left in the game. Sure, the Vikings WRs are garbage, but, still, Tramon gets some credit for that.

Beep's picture

Its two fold for the Vikings. Their receivers lack talent and Ponder could throw a pass from in a boat and not hit water.

FITZCORE 1252&#039;S EVO's picture

Well, Is the boat in water? Or is it like... Still on the factory floor?

Nerd&#039;s Laptop's picture

Alot of DBs have problems bringing down Apete in the open field.

Kellz's picture

I think a lot of people think Tramon is having a down season because he doesn't have the INt's this season. He has had 4 games where he has held WR with 0 catches.
Has he not ha his share of misse tackles? Of course he has. Everyone has miss tackles.
Morgan has only had maybe one bad game this season. He has played fairly well all season. Many don't give him credit.

Kennypayne's picture

I thought Green was supposed to be a 3rd down back when drafted? I'd like MM to get a little more creative with him on 3rd and does little on 1.

And UGLY are the Packer fans who insist on yelling Kuuuuuuuuuuuuhn when he gets stopped on a 3rd and 1.

SoTxPhil's picture

I also HATE IT when AR rolls out and has an easy pick up of a first down by running for it or dumping it off to a TE/FB right in front of him, but decides to throw downfield to a covered WR for an incompletion and an a punt. Keep the short passing game going and more dump offs over the line to the RBs and Cobb.

Derek's picture

Should've put Ponder in the Ugly category. Can anyone believe he was the 12th pick in his draft? that's insane. He should've been a 2nd rounder at best. I love to hate those Vikings.

woodson4president's picture

Yeah I see James Jones in the good he's been pretty damn good all year! N Alex ran well too...nice game from both rbs.

Bomdad's picture

it's rumored MM doesn't like the run...Was that flea flicker just an attempt to see how many times the ball can be passed in one play?

woodson4president's picture

Oh snap

woodson4president's picture

I also thought the dline as a whole got a decent amount of push. Raji n Neal in particular. The pocket collapsed around him quite a bit.....just no lbs to come in n make tackle on ponder.

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