Hello Wisconsin: On the Brink, But Not Quite There
Where do we go from here?
By TimBackes
I was out last week and unable to get in my usual column after the Packers’ loss to the Eagles, so I just wanted to say a few quick words this week as a sort of postmortem of my own.
Obviously, any time your team loses in the playoffs it’s disappointing. This year probably less than many recent years, because I think we all had a feeling it was coming. There was no real unique heartbreak; this is just a team that wasn’t good enough. Not yet, at least.
And it’s that point that I keep coming back to. In the past, when we’ve seen teams on the precipice of a championship, what have been the factors that resulted in them actually getting over the hump?
It’s a tale as old as time in professional sports. A young upstart team sees some early success, but the more established team(s) ultimately get the win, and that promising young team gets picked as a favorite for the next year, or the year after that.
Sometimes they go on and actually achieve it. We saw it with the 1995 to 1996 Packers, or the 2009 to 2010 Packers (very different types of teams between 1996 and 2010, but still the same idea of a youthful team showing fire and then getting bounced the year before a title). We saw it with the beginning of this very Chiefs dynasty.
There are other teams that hung around as pesky challengers a little while longer before finally crossing over into championship territory. The Peyton Manning Colts of the early to mid 2000s. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers of the late 90s and early 2000s. The Philadelphia Eagles of the early 2000s, who finally on their fourth consecutive trip to the NFC championship earned their way to a Super Bowl (only to lose, of course).
But not every time does this pesky upstart team actually end up even reaching a championship.
There are your San Diego Chargers of the 1980s and 2000s. The Andrew Luck Colts. The 1980s Cowboys. The 2010s Texans. The late 2000s Jets. To this point, the Josh Allen Bills and Lamar Jackson Ravens (though their histories are still being written). And so many more.
Which direction will the Packers go?
There are so many factors at play. Of course you have the construction of the actual team itself; the Packers have basically all of their key players under contract for next season, and after that it starts to get a little bit dicier. The Packers are probably a strong and consistent pass rush away from being true contenders, and could absolutely use another strong corner and a true go-to wide receiver on top of that.
There’s the coaching. Matt LaFleur has been very good, but has also had big deficiencies in very big moments and against certain types of strong competition. While I think it would be madness to even consider moving on at the moment, there are good points to be made that are critical of him.
And,of course, there’s the competition. The Packers are in a tough division. The conference itself is actually pretty favorable. But who are the other major players going to be, and will the Packers match up against them well? It’s going to be tough for the Lions to maintain their hold on the division and the conference while losing both coordinators and some of their shine; one and done after a 15-win season is tough to come back from. But there are other teams certainly waiting in the wings.
Ultimately, the big question I have coming out of this season is this: does this look like a team on the rise?
I would argue that the 2024 Packers were better than the 2023 Packers overall, but that the 2023 Packers had both higher highs and drastically lower lows.
Ultimately, there were no real definitive performances by this ‘24 team. Nothing that would make it into that “50 Greatest Games” series list that I ran over the summer. No games that I’m going to want to put highlights on five to ten years from now.
But at the same time, there’s still so much talent and potential. This was the second-youngest team to ever be in the NFL playoffs; the only one younger was the 2023 Packers. There’s still so much growing to do.
If the team can balance out this potential with some further growth and experience (perhaps additional vets who can help flesh out the roster?) I like their chances.
It’s a fool’s errand to prognosticate the next season before we’ve even hit the Super Bowl. But if you were to ask me to try to do so, I’d say I generally like where this team is heading, but I’m very slightly less confident than I was before this season that it’s heading all the way toward a championship.
No matter what, I’ll be here rooting them on.
Thank you to all of you for following along this season; this column will run through the week after the Super Bowl, and then I shift into offseason mode.
Wisconsin Beer of the Week
There’s something kind of funny about a craft brewery putting out a beer specifically designed to emulate low-quality macros like Miller, Bud, or Coors, but that’s exactly what you get in Lakefront Brewery’s “Dive Beer.” And honestly… it’s pretty darn good.
Dive Beer is what Lakefront refers to as a Milwaukee lager, meaning it’s basically a High Life clone (and I do love me some High Life). Here’s how they describe it:
“This all-malt, Premium Lager pours pale gold with a white head. Light bodied and refreshing with a smooth, clean lager finish. The maltiness is balanced by quality, imported noble hops.”
Imagine yourself posted up at any dive bar/corner bar in Wisconsin, and this is a beer that would fit right in… but with a little higher level of craftsmanship, and from a truly local establishment (and no, I do not consider Miller to be even the slightest bit local at this point). It goes well with basically anything and it goes down smooth. What more could you ask for out of your standard “dive beer?”
You should be able to find it anywhere Lakefront’s beers are available.
Around the NFC North
As always, it’s time to go around the NFC North.
- The CHICAGO BEARS got their man in Ben Johnson almost immediately after the Lions’ season came to an unceremonious conclusion. Something unique about this hiring: Johnson never even came in for an in-person interview, and despite that the Bears handed him one of the richest contracts for a coach in NFL history. It’s easy to see why the job attracts Johnson; he gets a chance to develop Caleb Williams, has plenty of cap space to work with, and the team has a top 10 pick in the draft this spring. Of course, the everlasting stink surrounding the Bears franchise may simply swallow him up as well. Time will tell. But it’s a great start for the perennial offseason champions.
- The DETROIT LIONS deserved so much worse, but I’ll settle for what they ended up getting. How satisfying it was to see them get beat at their own game, with Washington playing such aggressive football that it completely demoralized the Lions’ defense. There will be a lot of excuses about this Lions team simply having too many injured players, but I’m sure Dan Campbell himself would call that bull. This team simply got outplayed. Hey Detroit fans: you wanted to be the Packers? Well you got it, and everything that comes with it. Enjoy the heartbreak.
- The MINNESOTA VIKINGS completely self-destructed on live television a week ago, producing one of the better hate watches Packer fans could hope for. All season long we’ve been saying this team had all of the hallmarks of Vikings teams of old: a hot start, a big frontrunner during the season, destined for collapse. And hoo boy did they let out a stinker in the postseason. Sam Darnold remembered he was Sam Darnold at the worst possible time, and now the Vikings have choices to make with how they’re going to handle next season’s QB room.
This or That in Mr. Backes’s classroom: Week 20
As some of you may recall, last year I started doing weekly “this or that” polls on the whiteboard in my classroom at school for laughs. I decided to make it a weekly part of this column to keep you updated on what the youths are saying these days about entirely unimportant issues.
- Capri sun defeated Kool-Aid
- Blue’s Clues defeated Bluey
- College basketball defeated college football
- Mondays off defeated Fridays off
- Netflix defeated Prime Video
I’ll continue to keep you updated on the most pressing issues of our time.
Conference Championship Picks
A couple intriguing matchups this week!
Washington Commanders at Philadelphia Eagles (-6.5) in the NFC Championship:
The Eagles got taken to their limit by the Rams, who are far from a cold weather team and who had generally been overlooked in the playoffs to this point. They certainly deserve to be favored given their body of work and the homefield advantage they enjoy in this game, but the Commanders have been a team on the rise. They went into Detroit completely unafraid and bullied the bully. They’ve already beaten Philadelphia once this year as well. The Eagles needed a historic playoff performance from Saquon Barkley to get past a Rams team that has nowhere near the firepower that this Commanders team does. If they can’t get that again, we’re going to be looking at an upset.
I’m taking Washington, 35-27.
Buffalo Bills at Kansas City Chiefs (-2) in the AFC Championship:
I cannot wait for this one. Yet another postseason meeting between these two teams. This rivalry has really developed into this decade’s version of Patriots versus Colts or Cowboys versus 49ers. Two teams destined to keep butting heads over and over again in the postseason. It’s hard to pick against Kansas City; all they do is win, and while they’ve not been dismantling teams as they’ve done in the past, they operate with extreme precision and efficiency.
But this really feels like Buffalo’s year. Josh Allen is playing some of the best and cleanest football we’ve seen from the quarterback position in several years. The defense really stepped up against a tough Baltimore Ravens club, and KC’s offense simply has not been as good as Baltimore’s.
This has the makings of a classic, and I see Buffalo finally getting over the hump.
Bills 27, Chiefs 24
LAST WEEK: 3-1
SEASON TO DATE: 202-82
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
__________________________
Tim Backes is a lifelong Packer fan and a contributor to CheeseheadTV. Follow him on Twitter @timbackes for his Packer takes, random musings and Untappd beer check-ins.
__________________________
Comments (74)
Cheezehead72
January 23, 2025 at 07:04 am
I will be very happy if your predictions come true. I will be 75% happy if the Bills beat the Chiefs and the Eagles win.
T7Steve
January 23, 2025 at 07:31 am
Since everyone ignores the two Packers' 3-peats as champions (except us Packer fans), I just want the Chiefs to lose so that they won't be the only team to win 3 Super Bowls in a row. Since I don't have a horse in the race, I don't care who wins otherwise and just want some good playoff football that isn't decided by the refs.
mrtundra
January 23, 2025 at 08:34 am
And if Buffalo makes it to the Super Bowl, I want them to win, just so their tying the vikings record in SB appearances without winning the SB, remains in Minnesota. Both Minnesota and Buffalo are currently 0-4 in the SB. Praying for a Buffalo-Washington SB.
Razer
January 23, 2025 at 09:12 am
Buffalo vs Washington would be a nice change. I like the feel of both these teams. Win-win
dobber
January 23, 2025 at 09:41 am
I'm guessing Buffalo-Philly....KC seems vulnerable, and WAS is a familiar opponent for Philly. They'll be ready.
RCPackerFan
January 23, 2025 at 10:29 am
I'm hoping for a Buffalo- Washington SB as well.
Washington reminds me a bit of the 2010 Packers playoff run so far. Both were 6 seeds. Both had to go on the road and won. Both then had to go to the number 1 seed's home and both killed them. Then for the championship game they both have to go to their division rivals home.
Starrbrite
January 23, 2025 at 08:38 am
I’m with you concerning the 3-peat. It seems it is seldom mentioned by the so-called experts. They believe the NFL began when Tom Brady was drafted.
lou
January 23, 2025 at 12:14 pm
Thanks for the posting, not only do they not mention that fact but they continue to only mention who has "won the most Super Bowls", not who has won the most NFL Championships (the Packers with 13). When mentioning the 3 straight they should also mention the Packers did it in both NFL league formats;
To this day, the 1929-31 and 1965-67 Packers are the only teams to have won three straight NFL titles. The 1929-31 Packers did it when the championship was determined by league standings. The 1965-67 Packers did it under the league playoff system, which was implemented in 1933.
Razer
January 23, 2025 at 07:52 am
My worry with this Packer team and organization is that we will continue to float around in that slightly better than average zone for years. We win enough games, people keep their jobs and stadium stays full. I think this is why we hung unto Rodgers and avoided the retooling.
Gutekunst needs to draft better, LaFleur needs to coach better and Jordan Love needs to improve. If any one of these things doesn't happen our needle doesn't move. This may be the biggest year in each of their careers.
T7Steve
January 23, 2025 at 08:09 am
Part of the problem is that the stadium always stays full no matter what kind of team they field. It was just easier to get tickets during the 70s especially when the weather started turning cold. It did allow me to take my father to a few games while mother was down to the "big city" Christmas shopping.
Razer
January 23, 2025 at 08:24 am
It is the beauty of a small market team. We may be the most unique franchise in North American pro sports. Building a winning culture goes a long way in fueling a team and an idea. But we do need to stay current and relevant.
Love the big city shopping reference. We would drive down the north shore of Lake Superior from Canada to shop in Duluth for our Miller Hill Mall experience. Good times
T7Steve
January 23, 2025 at 08:36 am
Love driving that North Shore. Never get tired of it.
the_gavia_pass
January 23, 2025 at 08:52 am
thats what's happening since murphy got more power into the organization. the SB was still on bob harlan people, murphy was there but the people was from the harlan organization. murphy year by year changed the mentality, the was goal was no more SB but just win the north and to be a good playoff team every year. that is why they do not trde for key players, they hate trade picks and so on
dobber
January 23, 2025 at 09:44 am
"the was goal was no more SB but just win the north and to be a good playoff team every year."
It's interesting to me how this kind of assessment creeps into some posters' narratives.
greengold
January 23, 2025 at 03:41 pm
Exactly. Like, "HOW IN THE ACTUAL F???" lolz.
EnemyTerritory
January 23, 2025 at 08:19 pm
Total malarkey.
NFLfan
January 23, 2025 at 10:03 am
Agree, it's the legacy of Murphy, sadly. One man took too much control. Kept the team just good enough, filled the stadium-- revenue remains high. People keep their jobs. Few under-performers are fired.
Come to Titletown (don't miss the sledding hill-lol)
dobber
January 23, 2025 at 08:14 am
The previous article about "platoons" and this one really get to the same general idea: the Packers need some star power, yet. They got some help from Xavier McKinney and Josh Jacobs--and Edgerrin Cooper has the look of a star in the making at a position that's been a wasteland for years--but nobody has yet really emerged in the WR room or on the edge, and the position where star power really pays off: QB.
The OL is close to being a really good unit, but the deficiency in depth is glaring. They were lucky to suffer only one signficant injury this season (Morgan), and when their depth was tested against Philly, it wasn't up to the task (admittedly against elite IDL). We went into 2024 thinking the spaghetti approach to WR (throw this mess against the wall and see what sticks) was going to do it. Yes, LH, they scored a lot of points, but they came up small too often toward the end of the year when the run-first approach became predictable and calcified. The corollary is, of course, that elite defenses are more common in the playoffs, and elite for a reason...but you've still gotta compete.
The statement above is that the roster will look largely the same in 2025. I said before: there are a lot of guys on this team that belong on NFL rosters who have their contracts coming up in the next year or so--that's one of the drawbacks to having a good, young team (and I think where a lot of the cap room will go in the next six weeks). You're going to need to let some good players walk and try to replace them. Gute and his coaches need to be on their game as they decide who to keep and who to deal or let go...we might be surprised to see a couple younger guys who were contributors dealt for picks or possibly players. The MLB mindset for roster building is starting to show signs of creeping into the NFL...don't be surprised if there's more jockeying on this roster--especially on fringe starters--than we expected.
One way or another, this Packers' roster needs to infuse a little more high-end talent into their roster to make the next step.
Bears--watch their off-season. If they prioritize young OL and OL depth, then Johnson's got a chance to win games. He was a free-wheeling guy in Detroit, but he could do that with the deep, talented line they had. If Chicago drafts defense early (which they might do) and buys journeyman OL on the open market, the honeymoon will be short for Johnson.
Detroit--this is a talented team, but they looked like the 2011 Packers this season. They were blowing away teams in the regular season, sometimes doing it by piling on points in the 4th quarter, sometimes making it look almost effortless, but in the end their flaws were exposed by a team that could keep up with them (or dictate in this case). Dan Campbell is a CEO guy and he needs good lieutenants...so much of what happens there will be dictated by those new guys. They're also feeling the heat of cap management as their young guys are nearing paydays.
Minnesota-- Their best news might be that Brian Flores looks like he'll be left out in the cold in HC hirings this season (suing owners and expecting them to promote you later isn't a great career plan). The Vikes had, like, the 5th oldest roster in the league, though, and are having to cobble together a defense based around aging vets and FA signings...they have virtually no draft capital. 'Twill be interesting....early prediction here is that McCarthy is Christian Ponder 2.0.
FINAL note--the NFCN was regarded as the best division in the NFL this season, but it turned out their divisional opponents--the NFCW and AFCS were weak-sauce. Did they look weak because they got beat up by the NFCN or because they were just weak? Next season's divisional opponents come from the NFCE and AFCN--those look like much stronger divisions...in January.
T7Steve
January 23, 2025 at 08:25 am
"OL is close to being a really good unit, but the deficiency in depth is glaring."
Didn't it surprise you that it seemed they weren't ready or really decided who should go in at guard? At least when they still had Nijman, they could have moved Tom over there and still had acceptable results.
dobber
January 23, 2025 at 09:34 am
I think you hit on an important point, and that's that--in game--the coaches haven't been afraid to slide starters around on the OL and inject the new guy at a position of relative strength. They didn't do that here...maybe because they had no idea what he could do.
Glover was a LT at a low-tier DI program with good measurables. He's a project...but someone I thought might be a real find. I think you said previously that it's not fair to expect starter quality out of OL 8 or 9. Is it fair to judge how he played at a new position with virtually no game experience against pro bowl caliber DTs? Doesn't matter...he's gotta make it happen OR the brain-trust has to figure out how to mitigate that weakness. Telfort, who's been in town for a couple years didn't fare much better, either.
Coldworld
January 23, 2025 at 10:10 am
Playing a guy who was a late pick from a small school and transitioning from T at G (something he only commenced late in camp as well) after 13 garbage time snaps is beyond ridiculous. I can’t think of a better set up to fail.
This is one reason why the handling of the Bears game was a fiasco. If Glover is next man up, he needed real playing time, as did Telfort, for real evaluation and experience, but also because neither have played and practice on the scout team. The failure doesn’t change my view that Glover may have potential down the road at all.
Yet another coaching bungle of the type seen during the Stenavich era several times. That does not excuse Gute from not bringing in a better back up, but did the coaches want one? Is it his call or theirs when help is needed? Regardless, Gute should have stepped in anyway, but the coaches made this problem far worse than it needs to have been.
This was Newman over Tom, Hanson over anyone and the brilliant decision to rejig the OL that got us to a championship game almost entirely, only to probably lose us the game, all over again in microcosm. One can be a good technical positional coach and hopeless at personnel under a coordinator who isn’t. Stenavich has proved himself to be just that, over promoted.
greengold
January 23, 2025 at 03:48 pm
Josh Ryan isn't getting any better... My God, how that pick and Gutekunst insisting on sticking with him destroyed our offense. He's not what the front office tries endlessly to tell us. Look, I call BS on that, Brian Gutekunst. Take a lesson from your predecessor and DO NOT hang onto your mistakes ad nauseam, because they will destroy your chances for success.
I like Glover, and a couple of Cs in this upcoming draft, along with ZERO Cs in FA. Something has to change at Center if this team is to improve.
Same with adding proper beef up front on DL.
Leatherhead
January 23, 2025 at 06:15 pm
We've got 5. Those will be the starters, with the probable configuration of Walker-Morgan-Jenkins-Rhyan-Tom. Critical need for some guys who can actually play if needed, not just some Day 3 project that you're hoping to develop into something.
Gutekunst's MO all along has been to fill holes in FA. If he follows that, we'll be signing FA on that offensive line.
I know you aren't a fan of Myers....but the Packers had one of the best scoring offenses, best rushing offenses, and best passing offenses in the league. That didn't happen with a stooge at Center.
greengold
January 28, 2025 at 02:43 pm
Oh. But, it did.
Razer
January 23, 2025 at 08:37 am
I agree that roster turn over is a big part of modern sports. IF we have a good coaching staff, the challenge is easier to navigate. Who to retain and who to release becomes more evident. Our pro scouting has done a good job of finding good players lost on bad teams.
Both Detroit and Minnesota have improved their front offices and coaching staffs substantially and it shows in their roster building. It will be a dog fight going forward with little room for mistakes.
wausau wonder
January 27, 2025 at 10:21 pm
I think Jordan Love is evolving into Christian Ponder 2.0 right before our very eyes!
Savage57
January 23, 2025 at 08:24 am
Bills for the win!
I see the Commanders taking down the Eagles (cuz Jayden Daniels), and the Bills, playing a Chiefs team with only 11 players on the field instead of their usual 12, stealing one against them at Arrowhead.
And the Bills winning it all in the Big Game, leaving the Vikings alone on the top of the midden heap as the only team to have lost four Super Bowls without a win.
If you're a Packers fan, you have to be able to get behind that.
wausau wonder
January 27, 2025 at 10:23 pm
What's with the fixation on the Vikings?
Starrbrite
January 23, 2025 at 08:30 am
I hope Guty makes a run at at a trade/FA gem—Crosby is the prize. Many have stated it can’t/won’t happen…that was also said about Reggie White. Use Jaire as bait and add a high draft pick or two. Crosby is a proven commodity but the draft is cross-your-fingers proposition, i.e., do you end up with a LVN or Jared Verse.
I’m rooting against Philly because of the criminal fan base and their smart a$$ coach Siriani…plus I like Daniels.
The officiating is under high suspicion re the Chiefs/Bills. I wonder if the NFLRefs are feeling the pressure—they should be. The stench of corruption is swirling.
I have to pull for the Bills —Josh Allen played just down the road from me for an Ex N.Dak State Bison head coach; I’m a Bison fan.
Bring on the draft—Go Packers!!!
RCPackerFan
January 23, 2025 at 08:34 am
Around the NFC North
The CHICAGO BEARS
"got their man in Ben Johnson"
I have no clue how good of a HC he will be. But I know one thing. He made the press conference extremely awkward. The whole, "I have enjoyed beating Matt LaFleur twice a year", followed up with pure silence. I thought it was interesting to how he talked about Dan Campbell and O'Connell being coach of the year candidates, and then he followed it up with the LaFleur thing.
The DETROIT LIONS
Detroit was a good team. And had a ton of injuries. Now they have lost both offensive and defensive coordinators. And we will see how many other coaches leave. It will be interesting to see which way they go for coaches. The one thing, is Campbell is not a play caller. So they have to find 2 play callers.
And for the fans.. I don't care. They got cocky fast.
The MINNESOTA VIKINGS
Them losing the way they did was something that most of us anticipated. At least I anticipated it. When i was comparing GB to them late in the year the record of their opponents was very easy compared to GB. It will be interesting to see what they do with players. And if Florres leaves. I saw rumors floating around that they are going to move on from Darnold. They have Jones and McCarthy. So it will be interesting to see what happens there.
Starrbrite
January 23, 2025 at 08:48 am
Good points RC. The Johnson comments confirm to us Packer fans the focus of our nfc north opponents is beating the Packers. As we often say, beating us is their SB.
Maybe Johnson was thinking about the Packers when he decided to use Jameson Williams as a QB.
…and you’re right—their fans became extremely cocky for essentially winning nothing since 1957.
Coldworld
January 23, 2025 at 10:02 am
I do not know that you read his statement right. ‘The Lions coach (unsurprising) and the Vikings coach are two front runners for the best in the league awards, but I enjoy beating LaFleur twice a year,’ to paraphrase.
That is far from the same implication as in prior Bear coaches referenced to beating the Packers. This time it smacks of warning 2 will be a challenge but the Packers are mine. Hubris? Yes, but under that is an insight into how we are seen.
dobber
January 23, 2025 at 10:15 am
I think he's just trying to score points with the fan base.
I don't know if he has a personal relationship with LaF that makes this a "locker room humor" kind of jab.
RCPackerFan
January 23, 2025 at 10:26 am
I definitely think he was trying to score some points with the fanbase. I also think he was trying to hit some sort of joke. Which clearly didn't land.
Coldworld
January 23, 2025 at 10:47 am
Yes, but even in humor there are insights.
RCPackerFan
January 23, 2025 at 11:33 am
Absolutely...
Also, he wasn't exactly accurate. the way he said it, sounded like it was a yearly thing. Last year GB kicked the Lions ass in the 2nd matchup.
RCPackerFan
January 23, 2025 at 10:24 am
Previous Bears coaches have mentioned beating GB. Which makes sense. Lovie Smith's first goal was to beat GB. That made sense.
But Johnson was only referencing LaFleur. He didn't say GB.
I don't know if there is some bad blood there or not. But it was just awkward.
RCPackerFan
January 23, 2025 at 10:22 am
"The Johnson comments confirm to us Packer fans the focus of our nfc north opponents is beating the Packers. As we often say, beating us is their SB."
That is exactly what I thought. Whether we are good or bad we live rent free in their brains.
I had no issues with the Lions until this year. Fans just got a little too big for their britches.
wausau wonder
January 27, 2025 at 10:24 pm
Beating the Vikings is the Packer's Super Bowl.
LambeauPlain
January 23, 2025 at 08:36 am
"The Packers are probably a strong and consistent pass rush away from being true contenders..."
Really? I don't even see this as one of the top 5 keys to contender:
1. Execute upgrades on both lines...as in who is teaching and coaching them. Hafley convinced LaFleur he needed to upgrade his line coach...it seems more feet of clay from LaFleur for his line coach, Butkus.
2. Develop "strong and consistent" game prep and practice focus heading into games. Losing 3 of their last 5 games, all to division foes the coaches should know the best and should motivate the most was shockingly weak. And LaFleur seems fine, as the season wears on, to sit a lot of starters during game week practices, expecially on offense but still start games with little to no prep. It showed with slow starts and the need to play catch up.
3. Eliminate concentration errors (drops, stupid penalties) and create a culture of discipline. If just half of the drops and drive killing penalties were eliminated...maybe half those losses to the lions, Ugly Purple, and "E-L-G-S-E-S" may have been wins.
4. Add talent to a few rooms...DT, OL, CB need to be priorities for the draft and FA out of the gate. WR too, given uncertainties with Watson and Doubs health. The first 3 need to be addressed first.
5. Better pass game plans on O. The pass attack was effective but inconsistent...it did not complement the potent run O nearly as well as it should have.
6. More pressure from the Pass D...and I believe a new DL coach has great potential to coach more performance out of the players and ignite the Attack D Hafley runs.
dobber
January 23, 2025 at 09:53 am
"it seems more feet of clay from LaFleur for his line coach, Butkus."
Devil's advocate, but how sure are we really that he's (and Stenavich) not making chicken salad out of chicken shit? Stenavich made his hay with guys like Bakhtiari, Jenkins, and Linsley anchoring the line. Nobody seems to like Myers, Walker was a late-round pick who fell in the draft process, and Rhyan is...well Rhyan. Everyone loves Zach Tom and accepts the fact that Jenkins is a good football player. The popular narrative seems to be that the coaches are holding the players back, that their technique is flagging and they're more talented than their play indicates...but maybe this is all some of them can be. Not everyone can be coached up or carry that coaching into games.
NFLfan
January 23, 2025 at 10:31 am
Average OL players can learn proper footwork and fundamentals-that is on coaching.
Mike Wahle has diplomatically mentioned this deficiency often. There was a drop-off in production after Stenavich left.
Hackett was poached by Denver and MLF likely 'promoted' Stenavich to OC to retain him. He is not on par with the best. For whatever reason, LF refuses to upgrade his offensive coaching staff and he refuses to self-scout as well.
dobber
January 24, 2025 at 07:17 am
You've pointed to your past experience in football and I have experience as a teacher. We both know that there's a difference between doing it on the practice field and doing on the playing field. Some people just lose it.
I'm not trying to defend the coaches necessarily, I'm just pointing to the possibility that they might not have the right on-field guys, yet.
Handsback
January 23, 2025 at 10:09 am
You hit the nail on the head. I think the team believed they would walk into the playoffs with a well oiled offense. I really don't think their game plans were dovetailed to their players. Also don't think the dline was used/ developed to completement the players abilities.
One word to describe this year's performance... "awkward". They didn't play as a unit, or seem to have a sense of urgency.
Just MHO
mrtundra
January 23, 2025 at 08:41 am
OOOH! McCarthy is the new Ponder! I did not think of that! Good pull! I've read that Minnesota, while not having any draft capital, may have enough cap room to get a few players in FA. I hope not. I hope Kwesi skewers his team's future just like the Herschel Walker trade did, back in the day.
wausau wonder
January 27, 2025 at 10:27 pm
What is with the fixation on the Vikings?
LeotisHarris
January 23, 2025 at 08:42 am
Thanks for all your great work this season, Tim. Always a good read.
I didn't know the Bears hired Johnson without an in-person interviews. Totally on brand for them.
The Lions. I felt no joy seeing the anguished faces in the stands at Ford Field. I was pulling for them to make it to the Super Bowl. Now, the poaching of their coaching staff begins and I'm guessing Glenn and Johnson will take coaches with them also. Their DL coach is off to New England. Next year will be quite different in Dee-Troit.
The Vikings dismantling was a joy to watch. A perfect collapse right on cue.
If the NFC North is such a tough division, why were all the playoff teams one and done?
Commies and Bills in the Super Bowl works for me.
dobber
January 23, 2025 at 09:55 am
"The Lions. I felt no joy seeing the anguished faces in the stands at Ford Field. I was pulling for them to make it to the Super Bowl. "
Ugh. To quote President Snow in the Hunger Games: "There are lots of underdogs. And I think that if you could see them, you would not root for them, either."
LeotisHarris
January 23, 2025 at 10:23 am
Nah, it was more empathy for the fans, remembering the numbness I felt after the 49ers rolled in and Kaepernick ran all over us, and Tom Coughlin's cherry-red face watching Brandon Jacobs, and to a lesser extent, the Bucs celebrating in a nearly empty Lambeau.
It's been a rough road for Detroit sports fans. What do they have to cheer for? Eminem? I suppose that's fine. Kid Rock? Kind of like supporting drinking a case of Bud Light that leads to a domestic violence charge. Lions fans are harmless. Them having some happiness takes nothing from me.
LambeauPlain
January 23, 2025 at 09:00 am
The similarities between Rodgers and Love in their career tracks is remarkably similar:
1. Both came to the Packers with controversy on draft day...Rodgers was drafted "too low", Love "too high". It was talk for a long time.
2. Both sat for 3 years while watching a HOFer...and learned while becoming two of the "best prepared" 1st round QBs in the NFL when most first rounders are rushed onto the field (see bares).
3. Both struggled in their first seasons as starters. Rodgers was 6-10 with a poor defense. Love struggled less with a poor defense but still squeaked into the playoffs with a 9-8 record and won a game.
4. Both made the playoffs in their second year with similar 11-5 and 11-6 records helped by a change in DCs and big shift in schemes...Capers to a 3-4, Hafley to the 4-3. Both Defenses were huge upgrades.
5. Rodgers continued his growth and played with the best D he ever had as 3rd year starter in 2010 and won a Lombardi. Will Love?
Savage57
January 23, 2025 at 09:33 am
Veddy, veddy, interestink. (Bonus points if you get the reference)
I'd have more faith in #5 becoming reality had Love shown stronger progression this season. As it stands, I feel like he raised more questions than he answered.
Coldworld
January 23, 2025 at 09:09 am
“There’s the coaching. Matt LaFleur has been very good.”
Exactly what areas has Matt LaFleur excelled in over his 6 seasons as a whole and this year? This mantra gets trotted out endlessly (even when expressing deficiencies). Why, on what is it based? It’s time not just to regurgitate as if an article of faith, but to break it down and identify its foundations.
After a season where we routinely failed in our scripted plays and were tactically trounced 6 times out of 6 in division games, it’s not tactical brilliance or play calling. So what does that leave?
Bitternotsour
January 23, 2025 at 10:36 am
man management? nevermind.
Leatherhead
January 23, 2025 at 06:18 pm
''''Exactly what areas has Matt LaFleur excelled in over his 6 seasons as a whole and this year?'''
Uh....winning? He's won more games in his first six years than just about anybody? He's already 34 games over .500 in his career? He's made the playoffs 5 of his first 6 years?
It's results. Not always pretty, but results count.
jimtalkbox
January 23, 2025 at 09:22 am
I will argue that this upcoming season will be the most important of the Gutey/Lafleur/Love era and will show us their long term viability.
The Lions and Vikings have surpassed us within the last two seasons. The Bears acquired the "Golden Boy" coach that a lot of teams were clamoring for.
There are stats that show improvement on offense, but if you ask most fans, it certainly didn't feel that way.
The Packers were 1-5 in the division and were behind at halftime in every single one of those games. That tells me that Lafleur didn't plan well enough for the teams that he should be most familiar with.
If the Packers truly want to be back on top of the division and in the NFC, the main three have to "right the ship" in 2025.
Leatherhead
January 23, 2025 at 10:07 am
We're close, but we're going to have to figure out how to score more points in the playoffs. 10 isn't going to do it. We only converted 75 third downs in 17 games, which puts us near the bottom with the Browns and Bears.
If I'm running the show this offseason, I try to improve our CB situation and the rest of my attention would be on how to score more points. When you have 11 possessions and only get 1 TD,that's not going to bring home any trophies.
dobber
January 23, 2025 at 10:32 am
"We only converted 75 third downs in 17 games, which puts us near the bottom with the Browns and Bears."
They also had the fewest 3rd down attempts per game in the league...they were 11th in conversion rate with about 40%.
HarryHodag
January 23, 2025 at 10:07 am
I asked Pete Dougherty at the Journal-Sentinel a question during his weekly Q & A session with readers. I asked if the rapid exits by the Lions, Vikings and Packers indicated the North Division was much weaker than initially thought? That means the Packers are logically much further away from being a legit contender. He didn't agree or disagree with me.
Here at Cheesehead TV I'm much more inclined, given that body of evidence, that the Packers are indeed much further behind than many of us are willing to admit. The losses to the Lions, Vikings and Eagles indicate to me a team that is not a contender. The win over the Bears was because of a last second blocked field goal or the Packers would have lost to them twice. That is not a good sign.
I have always thought 2025 was going to be their year. But take a moment and look at the schedule. It is scary.
If the Packers don't get it together this offseason, 2025 could be a watershed season. It's possible they could only win a half dozen games if they play like they did this year.
I would like to be an optimist, but to MLF and Gute: the proof's in the pudding and with a new CEO next year it could be win or be gone.
Bitternotsour
January 23, 2025 at 10:35 am
Community notes: you've never indicated any optimism on this site, so the likelihood that you'd like to be an optimist must be discounted
HarryHodag
January 23, 2025 at 04:31 pm
As Kwai Chang Caine on Kung Fu said: "Incorrect grasshopper".
LeotisHarris
January 23, 2025 at 06:31 pm
Um, sorry to interrupt, Harry, but that would be a quote from Master Po.
Carry on.
Bitternotsour
January 23, 2025 at 07:08 pm
I just can't take him seriously anymore. How sad, he pretends to have watched Kung Fu.
LeotisHarris
January 23, 2025 at 09:11 pm
Harry's a good dude with a solid perspective on football.. He's one of Gordy's HS boys from Antigo, so he has that HS State championship street cred. I find his posts thoughtful and fair. Definitely not a knee-jerker and able to look at the big picture. Plus, he has it in for the corporate media dopes (aka nearly everyone now) so we have that in common.
TheBigCat
January 23, 2025 at 10:38 am
Biggest change for me this off-season will be if the Packers will change their football organization once Murphy retires; specifically if the GM will retain control over the football side of the equation and have the HC report to him. If so, that means, to me, MLF seat will warm up.
Bitternotsour
January 23, 2025 at 04:40 pm
Not quite sure if any of you have ever had a job before, but that would mean that both LaFleur and Ball had been demoted. You don't report to the CEO as a co-equal of the GM and then willingly give up your place in line to answer to the person who is your co-equal.
The only way that works is if LaFleur and Ball both leave. They have contracts.
NFLfan
January 24, 2025 at 10:03 am
@BN-Many NFL HC's are fired who are under contract- Hackett, Saleh etc.
beerandbrats
January 23, 2025 at 10:45 am
I was pretty bummed out after our playoff loss but seeing the Viking's Cinderella season come to a brutal end warms my heart. Seeing the Lions second consecutive fairy tale season end in such disappointment brings a smile to my face. Seeing the Bears struggle this year because they probably picked the wrong QB again is hilarious! Life is good!
The Pack will be back!
stockholder
January 23, 2025 at 10:54 am
Unless Love turns into Rodgers.
It ain't happening.
greengold
January 23, 2025 at 03:52 pm
What? An asshole??? FFS. No thanks.
NFLfan
January 23, 2025 at 11:57 am
The inability of GB to face difficult facts will hold them back. Facing difficult facts is often painful but the best teams understand it is @ the core of success.
GB's difficult facts: Lack of accountability at the top.
-As a HC MLF refuses to take control of managing the entire team. He allows ST's to function poorly, he does not fire Bisaccia nor does he address other underperforming coaches (primarily offensive)
-MLF is not equipped to independently manage an entire game w/o repeating same mistakes, clock management, in-game adjustments, frequent melt-downs, etc. He especially has difficulty out-coaching the best defensive minds
-He is allowed to continue this practice w/o consequences.
-He does not self-scout his weaknesses
-Too many under-performers remain on the field (many are first-round picks)
-Continued lack of discipline/penalties-coaching is the root, not youth.
-Many early round's Draft questions-Ty'Ronn Hopper, Jordan Morgan are the most recent.
This practice has drained the team of foundational, long-term leaders/play-makers.
LeotisHarris
January 23, 2025 at 07:00 pm
Do you think GB's inability to face difficult facts is a form of learned helplessness?
Given the insular, small-town culture of GB, is it possible to break the cycle of learned helplessness via intervention by outside professionals?
Research shows difficult facts are the most challenging to face. Could GB somehow gradually take on an increasingly difficult hierarchy of facts (you know, start with the sky being blue, then progress to something a bit tougher?) to ease into facing the facts?
Could having Bob Salleh and Luke Getsey in-house have been a form of self-scouting?
How does one with so little experience have so much insight into something they know nothing about?
Bitternotsour
January 23, 2025 at 07:18 pm
particularly through the lens of a bears fanboy. difficult facts for that boy means pretending your entire fandom isn't a fraud. it means spending your days trolling at a competitors site, trying to somehow find something that might get a glimmer of a response. difficult facts. priceless.
Their pubescent loins moistened with the news that ben johnson was hired by the bears, so much so that they posted it on no less than four threads, conveniently forgetting that those tricky plays that johnson calls are going to lead to Williams taking 18 seconds on his way to a thirty yard sack. bear down.
TXCHEESE
January 23, 2025 at 02:06 pm
Just wondering out loud. Last year there were references on the Packers' website of Love and the receivers getting together regularly to review film throughout the season. Did they continue that this year? Sure didn't look like it.
greengold
January 23, 2025 at 03:50 pm
Tim, this is great, and I especially enjoyed your NFCC roundup. Well put. Quite frankly, every team in our division shit the bed.