Giants: 27 Packers: 13
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly from the Packers' loss to the Giants
By PackerAaron
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Tramon Williams, Mason Crosby, Jordy Nelson |
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The Bad |
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Marshall Newhouse, Scott Tolzien, Dom Capers |
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The Bad |
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Mike McCarthy |
BrokenTV |
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Comments (63)
November 18, 2013 at 12:43 am
it's hard to see tolzien in the bad since it's only his first NFL start and some of those throws he made were excellent. but, yes, 3 INT's (especially that crushing pick 6) deserves to be in the bad category. i think he has a bright future as rodgers backup though!
November 18, 2013 at 05:44 am
ditto on that...I said this before but if this were anytime in the 70's or most of the 80"s we'd say we finally have a quarterback. He's tough and he's got a strong arm and he seems like a hell of a competitor. Bad? No. Inexperienced, of course. A lifetime backup..I don't think so.
Wallace he is not.
November 18, 2013 at 05:58 am
Even if the defense had only given up 7 points (remember, the pick 6 goes against the offense) we still would have lost. Our offense had nothing going for it all day. We all knew the Giants were going to shut down the run and that would create opportunities to throw. I put this loss on the shoulders of the coach who played too conservatively with Tolzien. If the opposing defense is going to give you single coverage on Nelson and Boykin then for god's sake throw the ball to them. And keep throwing the ball to them until the defense adjusts to stop it. I know, we have all said these same things over and over this season. I'll stop now.
November 18, 2013 at 06:51 am
I agree! Tolzien was hitting our deep receivers all day and then McCarthy calls for running plays that went nowhere thanks to a stacked line.
November 18, 2013 at 07:26 pm
There doesn't seem to be any chemistry on the offensive side of the ball at this point. Guys need to get some time together and maybe they can get it going?
November 18, 2013 at 06:48 am
I feel that Tolzien is the second coming of Brett Favre. He is a gunslinger who can throw darts to his receivers and then throw an INT to kill a drive. He has yet to dig himself out of the hole he has made, ala Brett Favre, but when he does, he will be seen as the best back up in the league. It's gotta be tough for Tolzien/Favre in the Aaron Rodgers era. It's certainly tough for Packers' fans.
November 18, 2013 at 07:20 am
Dude was on the PS two weeks ago. Hasn't gone through an offseason QB school.
Besides, on that JPP interception, consider two points:
1: The play was SO OBVIOUS that JPP called it in the defensive huddle before hand.
2: Bakhtiari needs to cut JPP and take him out of the passing lane there.
November 18, 2013 at 10:21 am
First on Tolzien. He has about average NFL velocity on his throws(that's not necessarily a knock). Favre and Rodgers had(have) significant more zip on their tosses. I would rate Tolzien just slightly above Flynn as I remember him, but below the other two. Further, I don't think the JPP INT occurs if Rodgers is throwing it. I think it just becomes a batted down ball.
Bakhtiari has caught a lot of flack for not cutting JPP. If you watch it again(and they've replayed it about a thousand time already GD it all), you'll notice him setting up in pass pro. I don't know if the play was supposed to be a quick pass to Quarless regardless or did Tolzien have other pass play options. If it's the latter, then I don't know how Bakhtiari is supposed to know what Tolzein is doing considering his back is to him. If he was instructed to go after JPP and not set up in pass pro then it's on Bakh.
November 18, 2013 at 10:36 am
That's a good call on Bak - I'd love for someone to ask MM about it, the play call, any audible that might have occurred. It definitely looked like he and Tolzien weren't on the same page.
November 18, 2013 at 10:55 am
JPP new it was coming but our own LT didn't?
November 18, 2013 at 10:57 am
I have no idea -- all I know is that Bahk did not act as if the play was a quick pass like that.
November 18, 2013 at 10:37 am
Bakhtiari also cannot predict that JPP correctly predicted the play. He does what he's supposed to do on that play. He didn't even attempt a cut, so how can anyone say he should've cut him. Not his fault.
November 18, 2013 at 10:41 am
"He didn’t even attempt a cut, so how can anyone say he should’ve cut him."
Because on a quick pass play like that, you want Bak to cut JPP to avoid the batted pass. The way everything unfolded, it looks like they weren't on the same page.
November 18, 2013 at 11:32 am
Right, but did Tolzien have other pass options or were the Packers committed to the quick pass regardless? Unless I know for sure, I can't clearly say Bakh was at fault.
November 18, 2013 at 04:28 pm
yes it was a screen pass
November 18, 2013 at 12:58 pm
Wasn't that the exact same play that ended our game against SF in week 1? The play where Bak missed badly on the cut block and allowed the DL to bat-down the pass? Seems to me that Bak can't handle that play for whatever reason.
November 18, 2013 at 01:08 pm
Cincy, I believe.
November 19, 2013 at 06:27 am
Was it in Cincy? Perhaps both? For some reason I remember the SF game ending with a batted pass as well.
November 18, 2013 at 12:57 pm
One more thing on the Bakh non-cut block. I rewatched again(I know I'm a glutton for punishment), but I noticed none of the other lineman cut anyone either. They all went back in standard pass-pro. If the the quick pass to Quarless was to be run regardless(i.e. Tolzien was given no other options and the o-line should know this), then why wouldn't the other o-lineman be cutting too?
I got a feeling the quick-out was one of multiple options Tolzien could have made and the o-line were just asked to block with their normal technique.
November 18, 2013 at 03:23 pm
Interesting quote from McCarthy: "McCarthy on the pick-six. Hard learning exp for young QB. ...We weren't totally in tune with what everybody was supposed to do on that play."
Sure seems like there was miscommunication after all.
November 18, 2013 at 03:59 pm
Well at least JPP was in tune with it.
Right?
November 18, 2013 at 04:07 pm
Maybe Bahk can ask JPP if he should run or pass block next time.
November 18, 2013 at 10:56 pm
None of the other OL have the play throwing directly at the DE on that play. You don't cut block across the entire OL, just the one guy that can make the play on the ball!
November 18, 2013 at 07:03 am
I didn't even bother watching this game in full. I'm glad I didn't. Now,I know I've been writing positive things about how the defense would/could step up and win a game or 2 while Rodgers is out,but it always seems like this team makes the bad teams look like phuckin' SB contenders. Next 2 games are pretty much must-win games and Rodgers must be back for the Falcons game to save this season. As bad as the Falcons look I'm sure the Pack's defense would make them look like the Falcons of '11 season. And umm,why do I recall a play where J.Bush annnnnnnnd MD Jennings were on the field at the same damn time!??
November 18, 2013 at 10:55 am
At one point I recall the announcer saying something to the effect of "Well covered by Jarrett Bush". Kind of a Bizzaro World moment.
November 18, 2013 at 05:57 pm
I dont think the Packers have won a game when Bush is in the secondary since the Super Bowl.
November 18, 2013 at 07:10 am
I do have to say that was a beautiful kick by Crosby. Probably good from 65 yards.
November 18, 2013 at 07:51 am
I would have caught that thing if not for the net. It was a thing of beauty
November 18, 2013 at 07:28 am
Just a very pedestrian team without Rodgers. Probably good enough to beat the Vikings but I would sure hate to see them have to play the Lions on Turkey Day with Tolzien at QB. The NFC North is very much up for grabs but that only speaks to the quality of the teams in the division.
November 18, 2013 at 08:29 am
The Bad; Hawk's chin strap
November 18, 2013 at 08:37 am
Seriously. Dude's just asking for a concussion.
November 18, 2013 at 09:23 am
If his helmet goes flying again, he should be beaten with it.
November 18, 2013 at 10:57 am
It's because all the hair's gone now.
Gonna have to get a smaller helmet.
November 18, 2013 at 06:04 pm
Who knows...maybe its safer to have it loose and let it fly after a violent hit. Really I doubt any research has been done
November 18, 2013 at 09:14 am
The fact that Newhouse continues to flounder it makes me wonder how bad Sherrod must look in practice right now. Hope I'm wrong but this isn't real encouraging.
November 18, 2013 at 09:25 am
Morgan Burnett looked pretty bad again. He should be the leader to get the CBs and Safeties In the right coverage. Scheme mistakes are on him, really.
I'm not a fan of Brad Jones tackling either. He had a good game but his just not a thumper and its costs a couple yards on each play.
November 18, 2013 at 09:26 am
The depressing thing about the Packers right now is that there's still some hope, so you want to believe they can do it, but then they just crap the bed and crush your dreams. If they just sucked all the way through and were way behind in the division, then I could just stop getting my hopes up and start reading draft articles.
November 18, 2013 at 09:41 am
My vote.....Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
November 18, 2013 at 10:01 am
^YES^
November 18, 2013 at 09:54 am
Bob Tundra..
"the second coming of Brett Favre"..
"Can't dig himself out of a hole of his own creating".
Sorry, but I call "bullshit" on that one..
Favre CARRIED shit ass Packer teams for years..(decades, really)...and shit ass coaches too...and got them into the playoffs consistently..
Bob Turdra also said, "It must be hard for Favre/Tolkien in the Rodgers era"...
Really?
Why? Favre has a SB ring and two appearances. A-Rodge has one as well...
Big deal. A-Rod will never have the career that Favre had, and I forsee and early exit to his career as he get older and more injury prone...
4 > 12 in my book.
Why you worship this "stat hanger" over the guy who resurrected your franchise is beyond me.
November 18, 2013 at 09:57 am
"Why you worship this “stat hanger” over the guy who resurrected your franchise is beyond me."
I don't worship Rodgers over Ron Wolf.
November 18, 2013 at 06:00 pm
I don't worship Wolf over Bob Harlan.
November 18, 2013 at 10:08 am
Agree!!
November 18, 2013 at 10:59 am
Aaron's never been blackmailed to lay down on purpose so someone can get the sack record.
Nor has he been blackmailed to throw INTs on purpose in the playoffs.
Or maybe you think those plays look naturally occurring.
November 18, 2013 at 11:40 am
"A-Rod will never have the career that Favre had"
You're correct. He will also have a significantly better TD/INT percentage, higher QB rating, and at least the same number of rings.
"4 > 12 in my book."
Both have been successful. You can't call Rodgers a stat hanger and at the same time canonize Favre for putting up piles of statistics (not all of them positive) while winning the exact same number of Superbowls.
I'll take the one that brings the most rings to Green Bay. So far, it's a tie.
PackerAaron
November 18, 2013 at 12:06 pm
Murphy, stop talking sense to Pack66. You're wasting your time.
November 18, 2013 at 01:10 pm
Actually, Murphy...i agree with you..to a point.
I think Favre has the edge because he could improvise with bad situations. I don't think Rodgers can...You can rattle Rodgers cage if you hit him enuff...
I just hate all the a-holes who blame Favre for all of the ills with the Packers (and the World in general) and viciously turn on the guy who was so good for the franchise for so long.
Bunch of ingrates and babies, I say..
November 18, 2013 at 01:01 pm
"Your" franchise? Take ownership Pack66, it's "our", your's too, franchise.
November 18, 2013 at 02:16 pm
Favre burned his bridges with his repeated retiring/ unretiring games and especially so when he joined the vikings. His INT in the New Orleans game kept the vikings out of the Superbowl. Then and there, the vikings got to see first hand what Packer fans saw on a much too regular basis. I was making a comment on how Tolzien reminds me of Favre. A gunslinger who can hit deep targets but still throws INTs. I believe Aaron Rodgers is a much better QB than Favre. I feel Tolzien can be a good QB but right now he resembles Favre more than Rodgers. The pressure to perform like and to be compared to Rodgers is unfair to Tolzien. Pack66, the way you talk about past Packers' teams and coaches suggests that you are not a Packer fan, at all. Just who do you root for? Bears? 49ers? vikings?
November 18, 2013 at 11:16 am
Anyone think MM is considering starting Flynn?
November 18, 2013 at 11:17 am
I'd be shocked.
November 18, 2013 at 11:49 am
nah. i think they'll go with tolzien again next week
November 18, 2013 at 01:02 pm
Nope. Scott's healthy and will improve with another week of practice.
November 18, 2013 at 12:21 pm
Reality just set in. #12 makes up for so many of this teams deficiencies its alarming! From the coaches down to the players on the field. This team has an 8 and 8 ceiling without Rodgers at QB. All 3 major coaches (Slocum, Dom, MPM) couldn't step up. The defensive players certainly couldn't step up and Mashed Potato Mike rarely put the remaining offensive players in a position to step up. Cobb and Finley being healthy would maybe get them to 8 and 8 without #12 on the field. The rest of the the team is mediocre to below average. Time for a lil shake up come January. Even if they make the playoffs any top 25QB also in the playoffs is going to go blow for blow vs Ardoge and march up and down the field on Dom's reactionary defense. Sure Rodgers and the offense will put up 30 points! Wont matter when a top 25 playoff quality QB puts up 35! The Pack might win the division! Only to have the likes of Drew Brees put up 500+ yards of offense when the chips are on the table...AGAIN!! This off season its Shake up time! McGinn sure got slapped in the face by reality over the last month, the same way I did!
November 18, 2013 at 01:54 pm
I know I'm not the first to say this, but c'mon - this team is 5 - 5 and one game out of first place in their division. They came close to beating a desperate Giants team that's started an upswing. A team that has given GB fits the last few years. Oh, and on the road. There's a very real chance that they beat the Vikings next week and go into the Thanksgiving game with a chance to take care of divisional business. With Rodgers back, running the table for the rest of the season is very doable and once they're hot, a deep run in the playoffs is not out of question.
Everybody's counting this team out, and I think that's great. QB1 loves doubters and will eat all that negativity for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, fueling that legendary chip on his shoulder.
I know that counting this team out and bashing them when they lose counts for 'realistic thinking' for some people. But another there's a whole other reality. I'd rather have this team kicking and clawing in December and January than blissfully thinking everything's always o.k. and they'll be able to flick the switch and win whenever they want.
For everybody who says it's too late, I say nonsense. One game out of first place in your division with a whole lot of regular season left is far from too late. Everybody who has given up on this team is cordially invited to not hop back on the bandwagon in December and January.
November 18, 2013 at 04:41 pm
Nobody is counting them out for winning the division and getting into the playoffs. Very attainable and could happen. I hope it happens and I'm not counting them out for that. I am, however, counting them out as far as beating any half way decent QB (especially Brees, Kap, etc.) in the playoffs with this reactionary unaggressive defense. I hope you're not still resting your hope on the winning streak in which they didn't face Megatron, and did face 3 of the worst offenses in the NFL!! You were fooled! We all were fooled. Arodge has to play flawlessly and super human for this team to barely squirt by playoff teams if they even do win, which as of now in 2013 they are 1 (no C. Johnson) and 2 with Rodgers and 0-1 without. We've been too blessed for too long at the QB position and expect him to make everything better. It's time to temper the expectations of the QB position and expect a little more out of the rest of the team. The below average special teams play is complacently accepted by Mashed Potato Mike and Tinkering Ted and this Defense has been a joke since 2011. This culture of loyalty and facade of accountability is costing Packer nation in the prime of Arodge's career!
PS: Rodgers should have full control of the play calling upon returning.
November 18, 2013 at 05:16 pm
Dear Bugeater,
You are high.
Love,
Cow42
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What on earth has this team showed that has convinced you it would be capable of winning 5 out of 6 games?
Yes, when Rodgers comes back he will have a chip on his shoulder.
Yes, he will probably play out of his friggin' mind.
But the defense will still suck and the special teams will still be a liability.
Think about it - to win the SB they probably have to go 9-1 from here on out.
Not.
Happening.
Just making the playoffs would be nice and all - but every year you have a player like Rodgers and don't win a Super Bowl is a wasted year.
November 18, 2013 at 05:42 pm
We are one game out of first place after 3 straight Rodgers-less losses. That's pretty amazing, really.
November 20, 2013 at 09:51 pm
say it with me guys and gals- go rams and bucs this weekend!!!
November 18, 2013 at 06:59 pm
Funny, not one word about Sam Shields being a game time scratch. When is this team going to catch a MFing break? 66 you can suck an egg, AR is flat out better. If the Pack loses to the Vikes time for a top 10 pick, mail in the season. We need another play maker on defense.
November 18, 2013 at 10:25 pm
Lossing John Dorsey, thats a big one, Shnider and Mckenzzie in the front office is starting to show personnel wise.
Capers, Campen and slocum put a drag on TT, MM.
The window of opportunity for Rodgers is sill open!
TT better draft, and get the check book out soon, or its over!
Franchise QB's don't come along every yr, they better stop Fn around!
THIS TEAM HAS ISSUES!
November 18, 2013 at 10:43 pm
Defense sucks! period!
November 19, 2013 at 01:54 am
Early in the year McGinn's NFL scout opined that GB had only 2 blues: Rodgers and Matthews (but at least they play the 2 most important positions in GB) and one red (Jordy Nelson). At the time I thought the assessment was less than generous (I thought Sitton and maybe Bulaga and Cobb were reds and I was hoping Burnett, Shields and Perry would be reds). 2 blues and 1 red means no super bowl and maybe no playoffs. TT is great at finding talent in the later rounds that turn out to be greens. I have to think that the news report indicating that GB offered Raji $8 million per year is mistaken. He is wildly inconsistent. I don't think he wants to be an interior d-lineman. I think with 8-10 million per year, GB could find a FA difference maker.