Favre Haters: It's Time To Get Over It

You can say whatever you like about the Ol' Gunslinger, but the fact remains that without him, there's a very realistic chance the Packers aren't around today.

I've stayed quiet long enough. 

I knew it was inevitable that this week, the week the Green Bay Packers enshrined one of their greatest all-time players into their Hall of Fame, there would undoubtedly be haters. I knew it. 

Even after all this time, I knew there would be those who just couldn't let the moment pass without voicing some perceived slight for the things that transpired back in 2008 and 2009. 

I have all sorts of thoughts on this subject that aren't fit to print.

I have a very real, emotional response to "fans" of the Green Bay Packers who can't get past whatever juvenile nonsense they feel about Favre's exit from Green Bay. Thankfully, Cliff Christl has written something that cuts to the heart of the matter for us all to reference:

Ron Wolf brought Favre to Green Bay and orchestrated the revival. But as Wolf has told me, Favre was the one who did it on the field. Would the Packers still be here if not for Favre? It’s debatable. I don’t want to get on a soapbox, but two final points. When the Packers determined to move on without Favre, that was football as usual. It was a gutsy, prescient decision. One of the reasons Vince Lombardi achieved sustained success over nine years was because sentimentality never entered into his personnel decisions. At the same time, when fans turned on Favre, I thought it was the most disgraceful moment in Packers history. And I think fans who are still unwilling to accept his place in the Packers’ storied history – maybe as the greatest player ever – continue to cheapen it.

That's Cliff Christl, Favre-haters, a man who has forgotten more about the Packers than you or I will ever know, calling you out on your bullshit. 

It's time. Time to bury whatever petty nonsense you've been holding onto for the last five years. Time to let it all go. 

Welcome him back into the fold. He's one of the greatest Packers ever and there's a very good chance that without him, the 2003 renovation of Lambeau never happens and there's an equally good chance the Packers are on the road to extinction. 

As I wrote on the eve of his first game against the Packers:

That’s what people lose track of sometimes: how personal Packer fans’ relationship with Favre truly is. Of course, relationships, real ones that last a lifetime, are complicated, and yes, he is now the enemy and will be until he finally retires for real. But I have no doubt the Packers will eventually retire his number and place his name in the ring inside Lambeau Field. And I have no doubt that once Favre allows himself to truly walk away from the game and gains a better perspective on the events of the last two years, he’ll have a better understanding of why Thompson did what he did, essentially shutting out one of the greatest Packers ever. Not the greatest – I could never bestow that title on him with the likes of Bart Starr and Don Hutson in the mix. But he is ONE of the greatest.

And whatever team he plays for, he will always be a Green Bay Packer.

Welcome back Brett. All is forgiven. 

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Comments (98)

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

July 15, 2015 at 10:58 pm

I don't like how Favre acted at the end of his career but I'm done being pissed at him for it. In the end, the good still outweighed the bad and continuing the spite would punish only me.

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D.D.Driver's picture

July 16, 2015 at 02:04 pm

Three things:

(1) Favre was a great (but significantly flawed) player on the field.
(2) He is kind of a jerk.
(3) Let's stop this "greatest Packer of all-time" silliness. He isn't and wasn't.

I don't hate Favre. I just don't really like him that much. I think he is a giant tool. There isn't a thin line between love and hate. There is a giant chasm between love and hate. I think most Packers fans are somewhere in that chasm. ::shrug::

But, there is only one thing that I will never "forgive" Favre for: taking a dive for Strahan. Unforgivable. Ever.

Other than that, what's to forgive? We have been better off with Rodgers. It doesn't take an act of forgiveness if you get fired and immediately land your dream job. Or if you get dumped and immediately meet your future spouse.

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Klincker's picture

July 15, 2015 at 10:59 pm

I wont speak for the "haters", but watching the live footage of him getting a ride from Childress to Winter Park, well, I gotta say, anger is putting it mildly. It was really, really hard to see him in Minnesota, and he became dead to me. What Packer fan could even like him, knowing that he would be helping a hated rival. I think to many, thats when the Favre-Haters began.

Back then, I didnt know how long it would take for me to begin a process of "letting it go". I just wanted him to fail. Much like any other QB, whether it be in Minnesota or Chicago. But it was easier to root against him. I spent more energy in cheering for his failures in Minnesota (not that there were many), than I did in cheering for the Packers. It was consuming. Did I hate him? Well, hate is a strong word, but I didnt think I could love him, like I used to.

When he did retire, finally, we didnt see him much, or heard his name. So, in a way, I kinda missed him. All the talk about retiring his number and enshrining him into the Packers HOF, was a little nauseating, but you kinda think a bit, and discover, that, well, without him, where would the Packers have been? And then you think of his greatness, and yeah, he did have a knack for throwing INTs, but he was still Favre. It just takes time.

So, if anyone can really hate him, still, then they really didnt love him to begin with.

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travis's picture

July 15, 2015 at 11:16 pm

I think the emotions of Brett wanting to play in Minnesota or him wanting to continue playing regardless of the situation shows the bad-ass competitor he truly was. I was salty about the break-up, but just watch this,

http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/One-of-a-Kind-Part-1/2b53aadf...

It's pretty hard to disagree with how valuable #4 was to the Packers, Green Bay, and the whole fucking state of Wisconsin. Truly one of the all-time greats for all the good and bad.

"Welcome back Brett. All is forgiven. " -Nagler

Hopefully we all look at Rodgers career with the same awe when its all said and done.

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BRinMilwaukee's picture

July 16, 2015 at 05:53 pm

Hopefully Rodgers doesn't go out like a bitch....

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vj_ostrowski's picture

July 15, 2015 at 11:58 pm

Yeah, okay, that's all well and good, but I just don't like him as a person and the fact that he played for the Minnesota Vikings is but a small fraction of the reason why. I'm not celebrating this week, because he's just not a person to be looked up to.

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JerseyAl's picture

July 16, 2015 at 07:43 am

So tell me about your personal interactions with Brett...

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vj_ostrowski's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:32 am

Seeing his rod from a camera phone was pretty personal.

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Evan's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:40 am

ha! You had to actively seek that out to see it.

If you've seen Brett Favre's penis and aren't Jenn Sterger, then you wanted to see it and that's on you.

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vj_ostrowski's picture

July 16, 2015 at 09:38 am

*clapping*

Way to miss the point. The point is that it's out there, and it happened, and it puts a pretty sour button on the point that Brett has always been about himself, above friends, family, teammates, or his poor wife.

Anyway, I won't convince anyone to feel the way that I do, so I won't continue this discussion here. He's just a bad guy who constantly let his ego and his demons get the best of him, even into the last years of his career. His young, drug and alcohol addled mistakes I can forgive easier than the foibles of one of the NFL's elder statesmen who should have known better.

And before anyone says "everyone makes mistakes, nobody's perfect" - I would hope most people are better than cheating on their wife and texting pictures of their junk around to sometimes unreceptive parties.

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Evan's picture

July 16, 2015 at 09:42 am

All true...but, again, not "personal" to you, which was actually the original point.

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Mojo's picture

July 16, 2015 at 12:08 am

I hate the word haters. It’s thrown out too often to diminish those with legitimate gripes. Just because a group of Packer fans may not like Favre or care for how he handled things during his last years with GB, doesn’t mean they hate him. They just want the idolaters of Favre to recognize the general douchebaggery in which he conducted himself upon his exit from the Green and Gold theatre.

It’s precisely because I am a fan of the Packers that what Favre did bothers me. After a large ceremonious media saturated retirement the Packers were ready to move on to their phenom prospect. Hell, they were probably ready the prior season. But with respect to Favre they allowed him to continue on until his retirement. Then a short time later Favre let it be known he wanted to come back. Even though the Packers wanted to move on, they told Favre they’d bring him back. Yet Favre wouldn’t commit, so GB finally said enough. The Rubicon was finally crossed and the Packers cut the cord.

After that Favre’s main reason for living was to stick it to the Packers, especially to one of the more congenial, gentlemanly people to ever work for GB – Ted Thompson(by the way MM was really the one who wanted him out). Favre knew after coming back from his multiple retirements would put the Packers brass in a terrible position. He did everything he could to foster as much animosity toward GB as he could( I keep hearing how both sides made mistakes, but I still don’t know what Ted did wrong). When you go after my Packers you are the enemy.

Most people who didn’t appreciate Favre’s role in the breakup don’t hate him. They appreciate his place among the greats in the teams history and what he meant to the Packers. They understand many of their fellow Packer fans will get teary eyed reminiscing about that good ol’ Bubba, but will respectively hold back comment while Brett gets feted. I myself will remain mute and give him his due. His importance to the franchise is undeniable. But what he did at the end will always resonate.

And yes, if he never played a down with GB, the Packer would still be here. Hell, they survived the 70’s and 80’s. Who’s to say Wolf wouldn’t have constructed a winner anyway.

Christl: “At the same time, when fans turned on Favre, I thought it was the most disgraceful moment in Packers history.” Please! What are we supposed to do as fans; “Gee Brett we’re sorry the Packers wouldn’t let you run the team. By all means, go to our most hated rival and try to throw s*** in our face while throwing everyone else under the bus. Gosh, you’re wonderful”.

I’m over the Favre thing, I don’t dwell on it. That pass against New Orleans was pure tonic. Most of the Favre “haters” don’t dwell on it either, until some revisionist throws it in our face how above reproach Brent was.

To paraphrase Nagler: I knew it was inevitable that this week, the week the Green Bay Packers enshrined one of their greatest all-time players into their Hall of Fame, there would undoubtedly be pretentious writers flagellating anyone who dared not knell at the alter of Favre. I knew it.

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Bearmeat's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:40 am

Amen Mojo.

Aaron - your writing is a beautiful combination of passion and intelligence. I have appreciated CHTV and visited it almost daily (even in the dog days of June and July) since I found my way here because Greg Bedard lauded the site way back in the fall of 2007. You are excellent at what you do, and I am thankful for it.

But dude, when you get on a soapbox... it's annoying. You do NOT have the right to tell other people, Packer fans or not, what to and what not to forgive. Yes, Green Bay almost certainly does not win a super bowl in the 90's without him. They certainly do not sign Reggie White without him. But they'd still exist. Who knows, maybe they'd still have TT and MM and AR? And yes, I get that it's your site, and you can do whatever the hell you want and if i don't like it, I can screw off. The fact that you control the content doesn't make you right. Sorry to be so blunt, but in this case you are wrong.

Brett Lorenzo Favre got too big for his britches after his father died. He tried to be the QB, Assistant Head Coach and Assistant Director of Pro Personnel. This caused friction with TT that came to a head after that dreadful interception in overtime of the NFC CG in 2007. Afterwards, Thompson rightly said "enough", but he also correctly wagered that Brett could play effectively for another year or two. So shipping him to the Jets was the right thing to do. In my opinion, 95% of the problem with "The Summer of Favre" was... well... Favre. Not TT. Not MM. Certainly not AR. And NOT Packer fans. Favre. And Favre alone.

I was pissed at him, but I have moved on. Like Mojo said - that pass against the Saints in the 09 NFC CG, and the Vikings imploding in 2010 while GB won the Super Bowl with ARod was all the schadenfreude I'll ever need. The anger at him is over. He got what he deserved, and AR and MM and TT got what they deserved - another Super Bowl.

But I will not "get over it" because BRETT FRIGGING FAVRE HAS NEVER ONCE APOLOGIZED FOR HIS ACTIONS THAT SUMMER!

Go back and reread all the articles and listen to the interviews we've all read over the past month. He has not expressed anything other than remorse for "the way things turned out at the end." That is not accepting responsibility for your actions. He was a child and he remains a child. So why treat him like a man?

I will forever cherish the memories of him playing in the 90s and in the 2004 and 2007 seasons - until the way he was directly responsible for those seasons' endings. Still, they were great seasons which he had the biggest hand in on the field. When he's standing on the podium in November, I will applaud. I will recognize his more-than-occasional greatness in the regular season. But I will not get teary eyed when he still has not truly apologized for his principal role in the way it ended in Green Bay.

So don't you DARE chastise me or call my fandom into question for that choice. It's not your call.

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WKUPackFan's picture

July 17, 2015 at 07:46 am

Bravo Bear. In the end, Brett is responsible for his actions, and I'm responsible for my feelings about his actions. As long as my outward manifestations of my feelings don't harm others, it's nobody's business (including Aaron and Christie) what my feelings are.

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FITZCORE1252's picture

July 16, 2015 at 03:20 pm

Brav. O.

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

July 16, 2015 at 10:57 pm

"Who’s to say Wolf wouldn’t have constructed a winner anyway."

Wolf drafted enough quality quarterbacks that I am sure he would have.

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WKUPackFan's picture

July 17, 2015 at 07:36 am

This post most closely reflects my view, thanks Mojo. I'm a Packers fan first, that's why I was ready for and glad when Brett left, he wasn't bigger than the team.

Oh, and Mr. Christie, what was really shameful were the idiots that booed AR during camp while Brett was lurking around encouraging the whole thing. Write about that.

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packsmack's picture

July 22, 2015 at 02:24 pm

Yup I'm with Bearmeat and Mojo. The loudest I've ever cheered for something not involving the Packers was when Favre threw the inevitable pick in the NFCCG to bury the Vikes. He made it personal by going to that team. He could have easily stayed a Jet and preserved his fans, but did everything in his power to get out of that contract and take his revenge. He deserves every boo and nothing will ever change that.

I don't care about the dick stuff or whatever because roughly 93 percent of pro athletes have mistresses and just act like dogs in general. The elevated testosterone levels will do that.

Do I appreciate what he did for Green Bay? Sure. He's an all-time great player. I rooted for him as a Packer and definitely think he belongs in the fold with all of the other Packer greats. That doesn't mean I have to like him.

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Turophile's picture

July 16, 2015 at 12:39 am

Psychology 101. Telling others to (in so many words) "'get over it" will always, always, without exception, make it worse and harden their opinion. Is a little online action worth splitting the fan base again, Aaron ?

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croatpackfan's picture

July 18, 2015 at 04:38 am

As someone who joined this Packer Nation after Brett Favre, I think I might say something very neutral to this issue... I read a lot about this particular issue (Brett Favre leaving Packers) from authors which were not involved emotionally in that mess...

My conclusion is that Brett felt his time with Packers are over. Packers had new QB, more accurate, more precise, more patient than he was. He knew that he need to go for the reason there is better QB on the board... That is why he decided to retire... But he had a lot in his tank and after that he regretted decision. He come back and said something like, OK one more year... Packers were willing to let him that, but not under Brett Favre conditions... Than he said, OK, after all, I will retire... And than at the beginning of the training camp he decided to activate himself again... Like little egoistic princess... Of course that Packers, as one serious organization was not in the position to accept that. that is why they traded him to Jets...

His bitterness against Packers move brought him to Vikings... But as I understand, his goal was to achieve as many records as he can. Additional price was to make Packers meal little bit more bitter...

But, after all, who can say that he did not gave himself completely to Packers team and organization. Who can claim opposite to the obvious fact that he helped a lot to revive Packers franchise... QB brought from back up role to be back up in Packers... I think all true Packers fans should bow in front of him... For all those things he did for Packers...

Also, I think Brett Favre "haters" or people who do not like him, should forgive him for those years in Minnesota (2 as I recollect well?). To forgive someone does not mean to forget. But Brett Favre deserves to be in the Packers Hall of Fame as well as he deserves to be part of the NFL Hall of Fame...

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Bearmeat's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:27 am

Thanks Croat. Very level headed.

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Since'61's picture

July 16, 2015 at 07:21 am

On the field you can make the argument that Favre was the greatest player the Packers have ever had. That will probably change by the time Aaron Rodgers career is over but it was true when Favre's Packer career was done. As a Packer fan I loved watching him play and watching the Packers return to greatness. Who knows where the franchise would be without him. Reggie White doesn't come to Green Bay without Favre and there is probably no SB win in the '90s. I don't condone or support his actions after he left Green Bay but I don't hate him for it either. As far as I know he did not commit a crime like A.Hernandez, or A. Pederson, or Ray Rice. Or shoot a gun off in public like a recent Packer player. None of this is important enough to hate someone over it. Favre is not the first or only athlete to have an acrimonious breakup with a former team. It happens, it's business. Fans of other teams think that Packer fans who hate Favre are ridiculous and all tell me how much they wish they had anyone who could play for their team for 16 years like Favre played for the Packers. He created a whole new nationwide generation of Packers fans and increased the fan base by over a million people nationally. If you don't like Favre that's fine, everyone is entitled to their own view but now is the time to recognize his career as an all time Packer and NFL great. As for the hate I suggest to let it go. It's unnecessary, there is enough hate in the world without hating a former player for some insignificant and ridiculous actions which are not even illegal. There are enough important matters in our lives to deal with, without carrying around additional baggage for no good reason. Thanks, Since '61

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BRinMilwaukee's picture

July 16, 2015 at 06:03 pm

Well said, '61, as always. Those 16 years were amazzzing.

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Evan's picture

July 16, 2015 at 07:17 am

People really take their sports seriously, huh?

Don't get me wrong, I love football and I love the Packers. I celebrate wins and mourn the losses just like everyone else. But to hold onto a grudge for so long, against a man who for all intents and purposes is a complete stranger, is insane to me. Favre never did anything to any one of us personally.

I rooted for him with all my heart when he played for the Packers, and against him with equal intensity when he was with the Vikings. And when he finally retired it was over.

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Since'61's picture

July 16, 2015 at 07:24 am

Evan - perfect! Case closed! Thanks, Since '61

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

July 16, 2015 at 10:20 am

I pretty much agree with Evan. If I happened to be in the crowd when GB honored Favre, I would certainly clap politely for him in recognition of the quality of his play and the passion with which he played the game. I think Favre deserves to be in the Packer HOF. Since I can't respect him as a person overall despite quite a few redeeming traits, I wouldn't take the time to go to a special event in his honor. I don't hate Favre, or hold a grudge, and I prefer not to be labeled by other perfect strangers. Calling folks haters or deniers is an effective emotional argument, but it does not mean that my position is irrational or not well thought out.

I choose to read Since '61's comment as meaning "the defense (presented well by Evan) rests" rather than figuratively hearing in my mind a gavel bang.

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Since'61's picture

July 16, 2015 at 10:48 am

Reynoldo - as usual a very well thought out post on your part. I appreciate the feedback and you are correct. I do not like the term haters myself. My point at the end of my original post was to politely (I hope) to remind us all that there are more important things than Brett Favre and his stupid antics and reaching the point of hate over him is not worth it. He tarnished himself for whatever reason ( I think it may be due to concussions suffered while playing) but he did give us everything he had while he played in Green Bay. So give him his day, clap politely as you mentioned and let's all move on. As I mentioned, I loved watching him play, but now I'm tired of all of this and I just want to go back to enjoying watching Aaron Rodgers play. Thanks, Since '61

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Tundraboy's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:06 pm

Well said.

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MarkinMadison's picture

July 16, 2015 at 07:36 am

I'm over it, I'm over Farve leaving, how he left, and the fact that he manipulated events to go and play for the Vikings. Really I am BUT:

(1) I'm calling bullshit on the link blurb, which even Nagler backed away from in his article: the whole notion that the Packers would no longer exist without Farve. This assumes that Ron Wolf would have somehow not managed to put together a Super Bowl team without Farve. Bullshit. Farve won one Super Bowl, the same as about a dozen other quarterbacks in his era. Also, the Packers don't exist without a Super Bowl win? Really? Can you tell me the last time the Cleveland Browns won? I get that the Packers don't have a deep pocket owner, but they have an incredibly loyal fan base and the idea that they'd be gone, or on the way to extinction, assumes a lot about events that are just impossible to know. So yes, he was a great QB, but that doesn't make him the sole savior of the franchise. This is still a team sport, and the team includes the front offices and the coaches as well.

2) The notion that he is the best player in Packers history. There are guys who played for the Packers and transformed their position: Don Hutson and Reggie White for example. Brett Farve was a great QB in the era of the QB. When you talk about who was the best QB of the era Farve is in the conversation, but nobody talks him about being the guy anymore, let alone the best QB of all time. Why? One ring. I'll grant that Brett belongs up there with a Ray Nitschke - probably the Packers player best at the position, but nobody ever argues that Nitschke was better than Butkus. Best Packer of all time? In the conversation, yes. The guy, I'd say not.

3) His off-field issues are as legendary as his on-field exploits. Does that diminish what he did on the field? Mostly, no, but realize that in today's NFL he probably doesn't have three MVPs because he's probably missing numerous games for drug abuse. And before anyone lectures anyone to "get over it" just acknowledge the fact that the guy has (or at least had until quite recently) an unstable personality, and brought a lot of this upon himself.

If I'm lucky enough to be at Lambeau when Farve is honored I'll clap politely and I won't boo. He was a hell of a lot of fun to watch back in the day and he deserves some recognition. But if Nagler thinks I need to put on rose colored glasses or I should be branded a hater, then I say he's wrong.

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JerseyAl's picture

July 16, 2015 at 07:48 am

" This assumes that Ron Wolf would have somehow not managed to put together a Super Bowl team without Farve. "

Personally, I would place my bet on that being the case.

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Evan's picture

July 16, 2015 at 07:59 am

There are obviously an infinite number of ways history could have gone if Favre never came to Green Bay. But I do think it's interesting to wonder if the mid-90s team (with largely the same roster) could have won it all with Mark Brunell and no Reggie White.

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HankScorpio's picture

July 16, 2015 at 03:11 pm

Reggie White got paid handsomely to move to GB. Almost all players in that situation say the money was not the reason. Most are lying.

It was either God or Favre that led Reggie to GB, not the money, depending on what Reggie said on a particular day. I sure don't buy into the notion that God cared that Reggie White played on the same team as Brett Favre. So given that his story was not consistent, I conclude it was the money. Or at least there is a better than fair chance it was the money.

IOWS, I don't accept the notion that Reggie White does not come to GB if not for Favre's presence on the team. Given that, I certainly think Mark Brunell was capable of winning a SB with the best defense & STs in the league like the Packers had in their one Favre-era SB. They might have even won two without the NFL's all-time interceptions thrown leader tossing games away so carelessly.

You are certainly welcome to think otherwise.

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Tundraboy's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:12 pm

I agree. What a defense.

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MarkinMadison's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:11 am

So the guy who was smart enough to realize that a beer-swilling 3rd stringer was worth trading a first round pick for would not have found some other talent that could win it all? Holmgren couldn't have coached a Super Bowl winning team with someone else at QB? Hasselback was drafted by Wolf and made it to a Super Bowl with Holmgren in Seattle, and Holmgren has since proven he can't GM his way out of a paper bag. I just can't buy the argument that without Farve, Wolf at GM and Holmgren at HC would not have won a Super Bowl. The truth is we're all replaceable. Even Farve.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:19 am

I'm kinda riding w/Markin on this one. I agree.

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Tundraboy's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:20 pm

I am as well.

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Bearmeat's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:21 am

I mostly agree with you Mark. Christl saying "it's possible the Packers don't exist if Favre wasn't around" is BS.

But GB doesn't win a SB in the 90's without him. They might have won the division a bunch. Maybe even gotten to a NFC CG. But they weren't winning the SB without an elite QB. That only happens about once a decade, and GBs teams weren't Ravens circa 2000 or Steelers circa 2008 good on defense or at running the ball to do so.

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Evan's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:40 am

I think you're forgetting how good that 1996 defense was.

1996 Packers allowed 13.1 points per game.
2000 Ravens allowed 10.3.
2008 Steelers allowed 13.8.

All were the top rated defenses their respective seasons. Obviously different eras and whatnot, but still, that 1996 team was absolutely stacked on all sides.

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Bearmeat's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:45 am

Yes, but that defense would not have been nearly as good without Reggie. And Reggie wouldn't have come without Brett already here. He's said as much.

Bottom line is that you can play the "what if" game so much that you drive yourself crazy. We don't know what "would" have happened without BF. I'm glad he was here, but I'm not going to pretend his crap didn't stink either.

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Evan's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:52 am

No doubt. Like I said above, "I wonder if the mid-90s team (with largely the same roster) could have won it all with Mark Brunell and no Reggie White."

I think that hypothetical team still would have been very good. Good enough to win it all? We'll never know. And personally I'm happy we never had to find out.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

July 16, 2015 at 09:41 am

Well said, Evan. We will never know if GB wins a SB w/o Favre. GB would not have gotten White. I was about to note that Wolf had a good eye for QB talent and probably would have used more draft capital to obtain a good QB (other than Favre, Wolf used a 9th, 2 5ths, a 7th, a 6th, and a 4th round pick on QBs during his tenure), and Holmgren was a very good QB coach, but then I looked at the history of QB draft picks in the 1990s. It was a brutal decade for QB talent.

No one of note in 91 other than Favre himself, taken at #33. No one in 92. Bledsoe went #1 in 93. No one in 94. 95 saw McNair (#3), and Kordell Stewart (#60). No one in 96 or 97. Peyton Manning went #1 in 98. No one in 99. 2000 saw Brady at #199. Brees was drafted #32 in 2001. Maybe Wolf would have traded for a good QB drafted in the 1980s, but it is difficult to see a team part with a really good QB, much less an elite one. Here's a link to QBs drafted in the 90s:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position

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D.D.Driver's picture

July 16, 2015 at 11:07 am

Bah. Sure Reggie White said this. He also said God told him to go to Green Bay. He went to Green Bay because he got PAID. No shame in that.

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TarynsEyes's picture

July 16, 2015 at 11:35 am

" He also said God told him to go to Green Bay"

But,wasn't that Holmgren making believe he was God via a phone call? :)

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RCPackerFan's picture

July 16, 2015 at 11:50 am

Your correct. Holmgren called Reggie and told him it was God and he wanted Reggie to go play for the Packers.

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Mojo's picture

July 16, 2015 at 12:23 pm

Not sure if I can make the assumption Reggie would not have come here without Favre being in place. The dirty little secret as to Reggies prime motivation evolves in this exerpt from a 1993 Milwaukee Journal Sentinal article:
"Sexton said Green Bay's offer of $16 million for four years stood until the $1 million increase Monday. It was the best offer of the three teams, but sources indicated the agent fully expected free-spending owner Jack Kent Cooke of Washington to match it, at least.

Cooke, however, recoiled at the idea of offering a 31-year-old defensive lineman more than $13 million over four years. One source said the high-payroll Redskins never made a formal proposal for even $14 million.

"Washington is close to home, but we just could never get onto the same page financially," Sexton said.

Then the 49ers, under new NFL financial limitations, were permitted to offer no more than $19.5 million over five years. Their offer included a $4 million signing bonus, and base salaries of $1.9 million, $3.7 million and $4.3 million.

"I feel the dollars offered by Green Bay were just far too much to overcome," 49ers President Carmen Policy said. "Without guaranteeing the contract, which we wouldn't do, we couldn't come close to matching the deal."

Hard to believe, but Reggies $17 mil contract with a portion guaranteed was considered ginormous in those days.

Reggie came to GB in '93 after Favre had played one full season with GB. Although Reggie may have seen something in the QB - Favre's future success was far from certain. HIs '92 stats included 18 TD's and 13 INT's with a 85 QB rating in 15 games.

And who's to say a good exec like Wolf wouldn't have found a viable sustitute at QB, who would have excited Reggie, if he hadn't landed Favre.

My guess is Favre helped persuade Reggie, but the bigger motivater was $'s. Was it enough to bring Reggie here by itself? I don't know, but with a good sales pitch by God & Wolf(as some might have you believe - they're not the same), maybe so.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

July 16, 2015 at 10:02 pm

Beautiful, Mojo! Nothing like a little actual research and direct quotes to support an argument. I too thought Wolf would find a QB if he hadn't gotten Favre, but my research suggested that the talent during the 1990s was just brutally bad. Maybe Holmgren could have coached someone up. Wolf was too good of a GM to have fielded a terrible team. Might not have been SB winners, but he would have put a competive team on the field, IMO.

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Mojo's picture

July 16, 2015 at 11:27 pm

Keep in mind Wolf, unlike Ted would have no problem wheeling and dealing to get what he wanted. My guess is he would have gone after a proven vet. And he would have had the first round pick he gave up for Favre to work with too.

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

July 17, 2015 at 08:40 pm

Yep, graveyards are full of people who thought they couldn't be replaced.

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ray nichkee's picture

July 16, 2015 at 07:36 am

I dont understand all the favre hate. It was a business decision by the packers and look what they have now- aaron rodgers and a SB. Farve is a competitor and proved he could still play. He was familiar with the queens staff and offense. The only thing that bothers me is his indecision about retirement. Get over it. BFD. We got rodgers in the outcome. How can you not be happy about that? Dont get me wrong, i love watching rodgers almost flawless attack but watching favre was different. The same plays everybody complains about were the same ones that made him exciting to watch. The freeman catch on MNF against the queens? How much of packers history would be different if he didnt decide, what the hell, im going to chuck it? It was fun for me at least and i never had hard feelings toward him for wanting to play even if it was on his terms.

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egbertsouse's picture

July 16, 2015 at 07:56 am

Please let training camp start, please! I can't stand another Bert Farve story. To me, he's the Ty Cobb of football, a great player but a crap human being.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:09 am

I never hated or hated on Brett. Hell, he's the reason I became a Cheesehead in '98. I just didn't like the way he left and who he tried to leave to, but as soon as #12 lead us to a SB victory I completely forgot Brett.

Maybe it's just the youngster in me (27, compared to the majority here) or maybe it's true what they say - "Winning cures everything", but I'm so satisfied with #12 that Brett is no longer a thought of mine.

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Evan's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:13 am

I wonder how old everyone here is....32 here.

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RCPackerFan's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:27 am

32 also.

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Evan's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:37 am

ha...I thought you were SO much older.

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RCPackerFan's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:39 am

lol. I guess I'm just more mature then most. :)

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Bearmeat's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:47 am

lol. I'm 34. And no one accuses me of posting "old".

Wait... maybe that's not such a good thing... ;)

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RCPackerFan's picture

July 16, 2015 at 09:28 am

lol,
I don't know. I didn't realized I sounded like I was a lot older then I am.

I guess i have an old soul. :)

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WKUPackFan's picture

July 17, 2015 at 07:22 am

Wow! I would have thought you guys were older (55 here) You all always have great comments.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:32 am

I see a few "old man" jokes/playful jabs on here from time to time so I just assumed those guys were 45+

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NewNikeShoes's picture

July 16, 2015 at 10:22 am

lol. 18 here

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Since'61's picture

July 16, 2015 at 10:31 am

I'll just say that I'm older than dirt and leave it at that. Thanks, Since '61

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

July 16, 2015 at 11:04 am

I am 56. I might go to Stillmank Brewery on July 30. It would be nice to know who else might be there since it is a 2 hour drive just to have 2 or 3 beers on a big night.

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WKUPackFan's picture

July 17, 2015 at 07:16 am

55 here TGR, and I'm impressed with the younger folks, very knowledgable.

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gbslapshot's picture

July 16, 2015 at 01:44 pm

41

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MarkinMadison's picture

July 16, 2015 at 02:46 pm

I graduated from High School the same year as Brett.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

July 16, 2015 at 03:35 pm

Lol, see what you started, Evan?!

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Tundraboy's picture

July 16, 2015 at 06:36 pm

Correct. #12 has already surpassed #4 in so many ways. #4 was great #12 is on his way to being a legend.

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NewNikeShoes's picture

July 16, 2015 at 06:57 pm

Both are legends of the sport.
Favre brought life into the game, and A-Rod brought skill and talent (though thats just selling them far too short).

I know its been said before, but how damn lucky were we when we got 2 HOFers in a row!

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Flow49's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:19 am

I feel like post packer career some fans are trying to hold Favre to a higher standard then they did during his Packer days. He built his career as a gunslinger from the beginning. Which meant some Sundays we were scratching our heads wondering why that moron tried to make that pass. Other Sundays we were raising our fists in triumph screaming did you see that??? Why should we have expected anything different from a player we've known for almost 2 decades. When he left I was torn. I outwardly hoped he'd fail but inside I couldn't help but cheer for #4 he was always fun to watch. Maybe I'm not in the majority, because after watching Rodgers come in for Favre against Dallas I was pretty confident that we wouldn't be wallowing in Chicago QB misery. I'm happy things are on the mend wouldn't be right not to see #4 hung up in Lambeau.

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Flow49's picture

July 16, 2015 at 10:09 am

I'm not saying fans were wrong to hate Favre wearing purple that made me want to vomit. Time to forgive and forget now and welcome brett back.

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MarkinMadison's picture

July 16, 2015 at 02:52 pm

I disagree. There was plenty of grumbling about his gambling ways the last few years he was in Green Bay. The problem was that as he aged the gambles tended to pay off less and less. My guess is that McCarthy tried to reign him in a bit and Brett told him to F off. It is not a coincidence that he had his only year with a passer rating in the triple digits and his only year of single digit INTs in Minnesota in 2009. Farve HAD to leave in order to change his style of play, in order to make himself a better player in his twilight years. If he could have listened to McCarthy in 2007, if Sherman had had the balls to force the issue in prior years, he probably never would have left Green Bay at all.

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HankScorpio's picture

July 16, 2015 at 03:30 pm

I'll never forget an anecdote I read about a film session Tom Rossley was having with the QBs during the Sherman years. He was showing them a cut-up of Favre's interceptions and a recurring theme was picks happening when Favre threw over the middle late in the play. Rather than take to the coaching and stop doing things that hurt the team, an indignant Favre responded with "when is the tape of all my TDs?"

There are just way too many stories like that for me to ignore.

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WKUPackFan's picture

July 18, 2015 at 11:46 am

100% agree. Holmgren was the guy who kept Brett under control. Holmgren would let Brett have it about those over the middle passes Hank describes in his reply (notice how AR avoids the middle). Then came the disasterous RR, then Sherman. By then Brett had changed. I agree with your guess that MM said you're going back to playing in the offense. By then Brett just couldn't handle that.

Ultimately, as you said, Brett made the mistake. Unfortunately, it probably cost the 2007 Super Bowl and tarnished Brett's legacy.

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lebowski's picture

July 16, 2015 at 08:35 am

I was probably more bitter about it because I live in the Twin Cities and was BOMBARDED with Viking fans throwing it all in my face in 2009. Purple 4 jerseys on douchebags everywhere. 2010 cured all. Like Drealyn said, I'm satisfied with #12 and Brett has been out to pasture long enough.

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Paul Griese's picture

July 16, 2015 at 10:15 am

I can feel however I want, and I am over it. But don't bring up the classic overstatements about Favre, and the saving of the Packers, and the whole state of Wisconsin. Its myopic and you should know better. The Bucks and Brewers are still in Milwaukee and they have stunk for the most part since the 80s, with a less passionate fan base, and still gotten stadium deals done. Its a decent market for professional sports whenever talk about NHL or MLS expansion comes up among credible sports business experts. Just fielding a mediocre Packer team would have gained the corporate sponsor support to make some improvement to facilities. In reality, back to back SB trips is just very good and not historic nor dynastic. Maybe its Kohler Field and its a shorter drive from Milwaukee and you park on a driving range and sit on porcelain and cast iron.

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gbslapshot's picture

July 16, 2015 at 12:43 pm

Farve the football player will always be in my memory as one of the key reason for the packers return to greatness. He was a great qb whose risk taking ways both won and lost us some games. Unfortunately Farve the man was not nearly as great as the football player. His retirements forced the packers hand when the decision was made to pass the reins over to a young Rodgers. His decision to say F the packers fans who had supported him throughout his addiction troubles and the ones who still stuck with him through TWO retirements just to stick it to Thompson and sign with our rivals is something I will never forgive.

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Tundraboy's picture

July 16, 2015 at 03:22 pm

A great packer and time to bury the hatchet for some. 2007 game left a bad taste and I can never say even if they won, he was the greatest. Just can't.

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4thand1's picture

July 16, 2015 at 03:26 pm

Football is just a game. When I was younger I'd be upset for a week when the packers lost. It happened often. With the money and media attention players get has me thinking about sports figures a lot differently today. Favre or any other player did nothing to me personally to affect my life. He made football fun to watch again and I knew he was done after the NFCCG against the Giants. TT, MM, and Rodgers took a lot of unessesary grief after he left. Fans acted like assholes IMO. He's just a man who played a game. He gave Packer fans a lot more enjoyment than misery. So what if he played for someone else, he gave the Packers the best years of his career. That's good enough for me.

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FITZCORE1252's picture

July 16, 2015 at 03:34 pm

I'm fine with him coming back. Loved him, then hated him... now its time to bring him back and close this chapter. This '15 squad is going to do big things, they deserve the 'ink'.

Reading the comments, the one thing that stands out is how many fans still can't spell his name. Not the grammar police here, it just stood out to me. If people cant spell your name 20+ years later, you're probably not the greatest Packer. Just my opinion.

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MarkinMadison's picture

July 16, 2015 at 09:37 pm

Hmmm, and yet you mysteriously avoid spelling his name, correctly, or incorrectly, in your post. Coincidence? I think not! :-)

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FITZCORE1252's picture

July 17, 2015 at 05:25 pm

Burt, his name is Burt... I don't know where all this "Brett Favre" stuff is coming from.

Nice try Mark... trying to trip me up!

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FITZCORE1252's picture

July 17, 2015 at 05:28 pm

"you mysteriously avoid spelling his name"

Really though, I think people knew who I was referencing, given the subject of the piece and all of the comments... you figured it out.

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MarkinMadison's picture

July 17, 2015 at 08:26 pm

Just teasing you bro. Good on you for calling out the misspelling. I probably did it like 20 times.

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MarkinMadison's picture

July 17, 2015 at 08:27 pm

Just teasing you bro. Good on you for calling out the misspelling. I probably did it like 20 times.

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HankScorpio's picture

July 16, 2015 at 03:57 pm

"That's Cliff Christl, Favre-haters, a man who has forgotten more about the Packers than you or I will ever know, calling you out on your bullshit. "

Maybe Christl has forgotten the 70s and 80s among all those things he's forgotten. Because I have to cry bullshit on the notion that a Favre-less Wolf/Holmgren era would have seen the Packers fold up their tent in GB if they survived that hot mess.

So as long as we're calling people on bullshit, that's a pretty big steaming pile of it.

I won't begrudge a slobfest for Favre as he's honored by the Packers in the coming months. Nor will I feel any remorse for not participating in it. And no amount of ignorant BS is going to change that.

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barutanseijin's picture

July 16, 2015 at 04:51 pm

It seems to be an unpopular opinion around here, but i like Favre. Always have. He was a good QB for the Packers and a lot of fun to watch. I don't think he was in the wrong to want to play for another team, even the Vikings. The Packers thought that they had a better QB in Rodgers. So big deal if he goes to the Vikings Didn't bother me. Now maybe if he had gone to Chicago, I'd think differently, but...

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

July 16, 2015 at 10:18 pm

Barutanseijin, ask and you shall receive. The two teams Favre wanted to play for were the Viking (wait for it...) and the Bears - see the link below. The bears weren't that good in 2008. Nah, ole Favre didn't want to stick it to TT and MM, and by extension the packer fanbase, he wouldn't do that.
http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2015/7/15/8974927/peter-king-brett-favr...

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Mojo's picture

July 16, 2015 at 11:35 pm

And don't forget he went for the trifecta by disclosing trade secrets to the Packers third division rival - the Lions. His sole motivation at the time was to screw over the Packers any way he could.

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Ruppert's picture

July 16, 2015 at 05:15 pm

I don't care what Favre did. We won a Super Bowl after he was gone, and he contributed to both Packers and Vikings history by dooming the Queens in that Saints game. Priceless.

Are the people who are mad at Favre just as angry at Bart Starr for being a horrible general manager whose work in that position essentially doomed the Packers for the last half of the 70s in the first part of the 80s? I wonder who did more to hurt the team, honestly.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

July 16, 2015 at 10:20 pm

Bart Starr had and still has class. He was a gentleman. 50 years of service to GB. There's no comparison, IMO.

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4thand1's picture

July 17, 2015 at 10:24 pm

Bart inherited the mess of Dan Devine and the idiots who traded for Hadl and sold the farm. By the way, Starr really likes Favre.

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Lphill's picture

July 16, 2015 at 06:05 pm

He is far from the greatest Packer, I loved him as the Packers QB but when he left I supported Aaron 100% , way too many interceptions in big games let's not forget that . He ended a few seasons on interceptions something that I don't believe we will see from Aaron. Give him his day , retire his number , move on nothing to see here.

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Tundraboy's picture

July 16, 2015 at 07:02 pm

Too many interceptions in big games is a legacy that lingers. The more I read here today, the more I want the focus to be on this year, this team. So congrats Brett, now let's be happy with Aaron and this team. One to be proud of. Go Pack, Go

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Mojo's picture

July 17, 2015 at 10:31 am

As this discussion winds down, I can't help but notice a common theme in most of the comments. The Favre "haters" don't hate Favre at all. They may not hold him in rapt awe as many in Packer nation do, but they can acknowledge his contributions to the organization. Many have moved on without animosity, but at the same time not forgetting how Favre purposely put the team in a no-win situation.

My guess is those that truly hate him are a very low percentage. Some people hate for no good reason – maybe because of the way he parts his hair. But most of the fans who have been critical of Favre base it on actions taken by Favre himself. You can criticize without hate. Two completely different things. Favre’s fame made it a big story. If we’re criticizing Brandon Bostick no one cares.

Most posters here are already heavily into the Packers. They’re loyal to the G on the helmet. Their disdain for someone, regardless of who he is, coming after their team, is based on affection and passion for the Green and Gold. To scold them for forming an opinion on what went down a number of years ago is reprehensible.

“ Perceived slight”, “juvenile nonsense” were terms used in this story. After I read ”petty nonsense” I was convinced the author must be referring to Favre’s behavior at the time – not a segment of the Packers fan base.

If the forgive and forget mantra makes you feel like you’re a morally superior person than so be it. Just respect the right of others to form their own opinions. And oddly enough Favre apologists stand by him because of the glory he brought to the franchise, but turn a blind-eye to all the crap he put on those in Packer organization. Just the opposite of a principled stance.

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cuervo's picture

July 17, 2015 at 10:58 am

While I have no personal axe to grind with Mr. Nagler, his "article" has got to be one the stupidest things to ever be written on this or any other Packers site. The well deserved bitch slap he received from the readers here was worth reading.

Time to move on Mr. Nagler, and get back to writing something with a little more thought. I won't hold this faux pas against you.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

July 17, 2015 at 06:50 pm

If I had articles to read that were authored by Jay, Jeff, Robert, Mike, Jersey Al, Aaron Nagler, Jayme, Jason, Corey, Cory, or any other author here at Cheesehead, and one by Christl, not sure which one I'd read first, but I am sure that I'd read the Christl article last. [Come to think of it, I'd probably read an Xs and Os article first, because I love those articles.] I'd read any article authored by one of the Cheesehead authors before I'd read an article on any other site (with the exception of Brian Carriveau maybe - but he's an alumnus, so to speak).

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Irish_Cheesehead's picture

July 17, 2015 at 01:54 pm

Favre said and did some really stupid things when he left Green Bay. I'll admit that I was pretty pissed off at his prima donna attitude when he went to the Vikings.

Glad I've never said or done any stupid things in my life.

Oh wait....

OK, welcome back, Brett.

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chitter23's picture

July 18, 2015 at 10:28 am

I love the readers taking Mr. Nagler to task. Here's a man who clearly could use some of the works of Dale Carnegie in his personal library. Rather than treat anyone with respect or offer up opinions that are really opinions, as opposed to calling everyone else idiots, he continues on the same path.

Maybe one day he'll get it.

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