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Cory's Corner: Tough Decisions For 2019

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Cory's Corner: Tough Decisions For 2019

The 2018 season is thankfully over. 

This year has been like sitting down at the kitchen table and being forced to eat leftover pea soup. We all choked down a pathetic 6-9-1 record and a point differential of minus-24. 

But before any decisions can be made about whom to add for 2019, the Packers must decide whom to get rid of. 

The two names that should not be back are Clay Matthews and Randall Cobb. Matthews turns 33 in May and Cobb will be 29 at the start of next season.

It may be hard to see both of these guys go because both have meant so much to the Packers. Matthews is the franchise leader in sacks with 83.5 and he is also 11thwith 365 solo tackles. Matthews was also an all-pro in 2010 as his career was highlighted by his free-flowing hair that moved as effortlessly as he did. 

Cobb on the other hand, is sixth in Packers history in receptions (469), 11thin yards (5,497) and 11thin receiving touchdowns with 41. Cobb’s best asset is his intelligence. It’s obvious that Cobb was a former quarterback because he just has that intrinsic knack for knowing where to be on the field. And thusly, when Rodgers gets into trouble, Cobb knows exactly where to go to be the perfect safety valve. 

However, both guys are on the other side of their respective careers. Matthews cannot get around the edge anymore. He lacks the foot speed to zip past unassuming tackles, which he customarily made punch lines of. And now, pesky hamstring and ankle injuries are eating into his snaps and will only get worse. Many would like Matthews to come back to Green Bay, but even if he does accept less money and does agree to playing more inside linebacker, Matthews has a problem that cannot be fixed. Matthews has turned into Ha Ha Clinton-Dix. He has shied away from contact and has appeared to give up on plays in order to put his “business decisions” over the team. 

Cobb is an easy fan favorite that has been adored by many. They love his rapport with Rodgers, whom has campaigned the Packers to bring the wideout back to Green Bay. “When Randall is healthy, I think our offense has been different,” said Rodgers. “Because we have a true slot guy that can make plays in the slot consistently.”

And therein lies the rub. Cobb has been injured in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018. He just finished his eighth season, so he’s been injured in seven of eight seasons. General manager Brian Gutekunst cannot invest in that and if he does, he must realize that it will be about as shaky as quicksand. Cobb’s situation is actually what Gute may have to deal with in a few years with Kevin King after King has been placed on the disabled list in his first two seasons.

Both Matthews and Cobb have done plenty for the Packers organization. But winning teams don’t hold on to guys too long and this new regime shouldn’t start that practice that puts teams at least two years behind. 

Cory Jennerjohn has over 10 years of sports media experience writing for several outlets in Wisconsin, Indiana and Florida. Twitter: @CoryJennerjohn

 

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Cory Jennerjohn is a staff writer for Cheesehead TV. He can be found on Twitter @Coryjennerjohn

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (149) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

packerbackerjim's picture

Letting go of 2 previously great players isn’t easy but it is necessary. Nothing new here; Lombardi experienced the same emotional turmoil though it was the smart thing to do. I think the harder decision will be the one on Nick Perry—will there be enough cap savings vs hit, can he play enough to justify the salary, will depth at OLB be the crucial factor? Of course, if he can’t pass the physical....

greentiger74's picture

If Clay is giving up on plays and shying away from contact, it’s time to part ways, even if you can sign him for less money. That is not the kind of veteran leadership this defense needs. If he does it, others will follow suit.

Cobb would be good to bring back if we could sign him for less money. If QB1 is going to bat for him, there is a good chance he can still be contributor to the team.

Lare's picture

In Matthews last two games combined, he has one tackle, no sacks. There were times in these games that he literally stopped so he didn't have to be involved in the tackle.

I doubt if Matthews teammates respect him at all after those performances.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

That's a sad reality of an NFL player becoming a free agent. They just don't want to get hurt. I saw Clay putting in plenty of effort at the beginning before the season was basically shot, and before the referees started screwing him.

That said, I wouldn't invest very much money in him at all. He's on a steep decline in my opinion.

I originally supported the idea of moving to a 3-4 because 3-4 edge player types were undervalued in the NFL. That's just not the case anymore. I think the Packers should move away from the 3-4 defense to a scheme that is more flexible in the body types that can be used, and does not place an emphasis on outside linebackers winning one-on-one matchups with tackles.

Jonathan Spader's picture

At the beginning of the 2018 season on CHTV the ? was asked who do the Packers need to resign Cobb, CM3, etc? I answered CM3 then and I stick by that decision now that 2018 has ended. CM3 has lost a step and isn't worth anywhere near his contract.

However, CM3 could still be a valuable asset at ILB and occasionally moved around. For the right price CM3 is worth it for the Packers. I'd resign him if he was willing to take 4-5 mil per year with a 1-2 year contract. I expect CM3 to regress even further as he loses even more speed with age. I expect a different team to overpay CM3 for the player he was. It'll be interesting to see what haopens.

We have more than enough talent at WR. Cobb has been way too injured since 2014. I expect that he too will go the way of Jordy Nelson. He also will be overpaid for past production. I wish both these guys the best of luck as the Packers move on.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Someone is going to overpay Matthews. I don't want it to be the Packers overpaying him to be a move around inside linebacker.

Nick Perry's picture

Not that I disagree with moving Matthews inside IF he's willing to take A LOT less money but what about Oren Burks? He was slowed at the beginning of the year and missed most of TC and the preseason IIRC so he was behind from the get go. Burks is uber athletic and IMO was going to need a year and offseason in an NFL weight room. He may or maynot pan out but I'd look around before offering Matthews much of anything.

There's plenty of OLB and ILB for that matter who will be FA who the Packers might be able to sign. As much as I hate Anthony Barr I'd rather put the money no matter how much into signing him or one of the others who might be available than signing Matthews. Jordan Hicks is another player who's a FA. Both Barr and Hicks (just examples) instantly make the Packers better and both of their respective teams have very little cap space.

I tried to post a link but it wouldn't let me. I had posted the OLB available in 2019 from sportac.com. Granted many will be resigned but there's YOUNGER pass rushers / OLB who make the Packers better. Hell IF Pettine came back (Just an example) just look what he did with Frackrell. There's names on that list who Pettine could make Pro Bowlers if he got 10.5 sacks out of Frackrell.

I'm not so sure we're set at WR either. MVS looked like a steal early and ESB came on late but the reality is we really don't know what we have outside of Adams. Perhaps in a scheme which doesn't take 3 years for a WR to be truly effective, MVS and ESB are the answers. But I'd rather have MORE than not enough playmakers after the last few seasons.

First things first though...Lets get a coach hired and then a coaching staff in place before looking to far ahead. I'm looking forward to see who might be some of the assistant's almost as much, especially the WR, OLB, ILB, and ST coaches.

dobber's picture

When I tried posting links earlier, it wouldn't let me unless I stripped off everything up to 'www.'

Rak47's picture

I agree it would really be nice if they can cut Perry and save enough in cap space to sign CM3 essentially removing CM3's contract from the books and fitting him in on what Perry was going to make anyway. Simple addition by subtraction, lol.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Packer Unrestricted FAs

OL Byron Bell
CB Bashaud Breeland
WR Randall Cobb
CB Davon House
TE Lance Kendricks
TE Marcedes Lewis
OLB Clay Matthews
S Eddie Pleasant
ILB Jake Ryan
DL Muhammad Wilkerson

Bashaud Breeland is the only name on the list I really hope the Packers can resign.

Packer Restricted FAs

WR Geronimo Allison
S Kentrell Brice
S Ibraheim Campbell

I hope the Packers resign Allison on the cheap good WR 5.

Exclusive-Rights Free Agents (8)

These players have fewer than three accrued seasons. The Packers may retain exclusive negotiating rights with them by submitting an ERFA tender, which is essentially a one-year contract offer for the league minimum salary.

DL Fadol Brown
RB Lavon Coleman
OLB Reggie Gilbert
WR Jake Kumerow
G Justin McCray
G Lucas Patrick
OL Adam Pankey
TE Robert Tonyan

Don't care about the top 2 names, the rest should be on the 90 man roster and compete for a spot on the 53.

Practice Squad Players (12)

Practice squad players are under contract only during the season. However, these players may sign “futures contracts,” which allow the Packers to retain their rights through the offseason and into 2019. 12 players are listed despite the ten-man limit on the practice squad because the Packers had two players on the practice squad/injured list.

TE Evan Baylis (signed futures contract)
DL Eric Cotton (signed futures contract)
OL Anthony Coyle (signed futures contract)
OL Gerhard de Beer (signed futures contract)
FB Malcolm Johnson (signed futures contract)
CB D.J. KillingsS Tray Matthews (signed futures contract)
WR Teo Redding (signed futures contract)
LB Brady Sheldon (signed futures contract)
DL Deon Simon (signed futures contract)
S Jason Thompson (signed futures contract)
TE Ethan Wolf

Man did Gute shuffle his PS a lot in 2018.

HankScorpio's picture

"I hope the Packers resign Allison on the cheap good WR 5."

That undersells Allison by a lot. Before he got hurt this year, he was producing like a WR2. It was his mythical 3rd year, which we have seen time and again equate to WR production taking off. It seems like ages ago but he was on pace for 1000 yd and 8 TDs through 4 games. I think he's worth a high tender.

If they cannot retain him, they must add another vet. I like their young WRs but having Adams + 5 guys in their 2nd year is playing with fire.

Jonathan Spader's picture

I liked Allison in 2018 as a WR 2-3. I do not view it as an undersell personally Hank. I think Allison could be a WR 3 on a team other than the Packers. I think that Allison has already hit his ceiling and I expect more athletic WRs on the Packers roster to pass him on the depth chart if the Packers are able to retain him.

I would love to see Allison back in Green & Gold in 2019 and am hoping that his injury allows him to join the fold unnoticed. I also think that there are a lot of WR needy teams out there and we could see Allison go the way of House when the Jaguars overpaid him. I don't give any stock to the on pace argument production is what matters.

I think Moore, MVS, & ESB all are more athletic than Allison and what he had over them was experience in the MM system and excellent hands. Kumero isn't just in his 2nd year playing even if it's his 2nd year in the Packer's system. I view Kumero in the same light as Allison I think both of these players are at their ceiling and both could be valuable depth pieces and perhaps more to the Packers in 2019.

I personally disagree with the Packers MUST sign another vet if they can't retain Allison. I think they'll bring in other experienced WRs to compete on the 90 man roster and would be foolish not to. At the end of the day Hank I'm hoping Allison is able to be retained by GB in 2019 and has a solid year. I do not see Allison as a long term solution and I think we'll see a 2nd year jump by more athletic WRs push Allison down the depth chart. He could still surprise us and have a gear that we did't know was possible it just seems unlikely is all.

John Kirk's picture

This is solely about opportunity. Allison is a JAG, but even a JAG with opportunity in this offense is going to produce. Allison possesses many traits of a bottom of your roster type. He's the LaDarius Gunter of Packers wide receivers. However, give him a prominent role and if he knows what he's doing, and he seems to, he'll produce. It's why Janis didn't. Janis didn't know what he was doing.

I have little doubt a JAG like Jake Kumerow would produce if he's plugged into a prominent role. He's smart and has the trust of Rodgers. You don't need to be a star with 12, you need to be reliable. Kumerow can be that.

Adams isn't elite. He just has the years and time put in with Rodgers. Aaron trusted him enough to have Adams as the leading target getter in the entire NFL before Week17 started.

I can only imagine what Rodgers could've done with a truly elite WR. It would've been so much fun to watch.

fastmoving's picture

yeah, he had an elite WR and big, fast weapons (more than most QBs who play the next couple of weeks) and it was so much fun to watch like its fun to read your posts.

maybe you should have watched some football in the last 2 years or even in general
they are are rally long, but unfortunately nothing else. but I guess you like to reading your stuff by yourself. like you probably like to hear you speak...

John Kirk's picture

Who is "he"? Rodgers? Who was the elite WR? 169 targets Adams who is no deep threat and lacks the speed to ever be one?

Cobb produced a 91-1287-12 season in 2014.. Was he "elite"? Richard Rodgers once caught 8 TD's in this offense. He shouldn't ben in the NFL and caught his first ball as an Eagle in Week 16.

Geronimo was a UDFA with a very limited athletic profile.

Adams is a heckuva jumper. Great short area quickness and fine route runner. Not an elite guy but someone who is excellent in a secondary role. Before you quote touchdowns, just remember the great Richard Rodgers once nabbed 8 TD's in a season and truly doesn't belong in the NFL.

I'm actually very quiet. I post when there's things to say. There's a lot to say this off-season as there has been every off-season in recent memory. I don't post during the season.

You appear to have missed me.

dobber's picture

I tend to agree: they need a little more certainty in their receiving corps and putting too much hope in the basket of ESB/MVS/Moore/Kumerow is playing with fire. The odds just don't support more than one of them turning into a quality NFL player. I'm not a huge Allison fan myself, but you can't deny he was consistent and productive prior to getting hurt. Right now, the Packers are really only one receiver deep.

Rak47's picture

I might be wrong Hank but I'm pretty sure JS was in the preseason crowd who wanted Allison waived. Lots of talk about him having reached his ceiling and being too slow. I doubt you will change his opinion. He already has to admit Allison is good enough to make the team as a 3. I was a big advocate of Allison's and Gilbert's early before camp. Allison played well before getting hurt while Gilbert didn't do much to eliminate his fringe player status. I don't think we've seen the best of Allison yet though.

Jonathan Spader's picture

You're close Rak47,

October 17, 2018 at 07:33 pm
Mvs, st brown, moore weren't supposed to play. They were practice squad babies. Cobb, Allison Adams were mikes pets. Pack should trade one of these guys for picks. Way too many of them not enough balls to go around.

Jonathan Spader says:
October 18, 2018 at 10:15 am(edit)
Doubt we can trade Cobb due to his price tag. Allison would be the most likely one to be traded IMO. I like his floor but I think he's already at his ceiling. Dallas would be a good place for him.

I was no an advocate of waiving Allison but I did say that he's already reached his ceiling and I've said many times that the rookie WRs are better athletes than Allison. I actually thought Allison had enough talent to warrant trade consideration from other teams. I thought that he'd be buried in the depth chart in GB and that MM wouldn't utilize him correctly. I thought Dallas would be a good fit for him because prior to Amari Cooper they didn't have a WR1 after letting Dez Walk.

I really hope that you're right Rak and that we haven't seen the best of Allison. In 2018 he showed that he knew how to work the sideline and had ridiculous hands. I just feel that the rookie WRs can get the experience Allison has and that Allison can't get the physical tools that the younger WRs have. Here's hoping they all take a jump in 2019. What matters more than WR progression is Rodgers returning to form and actually delivering a catch able ball and that the system isn't so convoluted that the WR doesn't know where he's supposed to be.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Campbell is an UFA, not an RFA (APC has it wrong).

Allison: I see 3 or 4 options:
1. Tender at $2.1M right of first refusal.
2. Tender at about $4M for 2nd round compensation.
3. Sign to a long-term contract: maybe 3 yrs/$9M, $3M SB?
4. Don't tender.

I think someone will make him an offer under option #1. Could be good or could be sayonara for us. Option 2 means we keep Allison, but it seems a little pricey for him. I like option 3. Cap hits might be $2.0M year one, $3M year 2 ($2M dead) and $4M year three. Could try option 4 and sign Allison for less than $2.1M, but I think he'd be gone. Remember tenders are not guaranteed.

Although I am tired of AR and trust, tell me what you're doing with Cobb first. If Cobb walks, then we're left with Adams and Allison who have AR's trust. Maybe Graham, MVS, ESB have it or will have it, but maybe they never earn it. I think Kumerow might have earned it but I can't say that with certitude since the sample size is just too small, and I don't really even know how good Kumerow is.

John Kirk's picture

No way Cobb can be brought back at any price in my eyes. However, it'll be interesting to see how the Brian/Rodgers dynamic plays out after the hissy fit he threw when Jordy got released.

The dynamic is now very different. When Nelson got released Aaron wasn't the owner of the richest contract in NFL history. Now, he is. So, does he have the pull he didn't last off-season. I think he does. I think that's why Montgomery got the boot and MM got fired in season. No Rodgers with that fat contract and I don't think either thing happens.

So, maybe, Cobb is back just because Aaron demands he's back. Aaron feels like Favre did in his latter stages in Green Bay.

As for Allison...I don't think he's quite the fan of "G-Mo" as he is RC18's but he does trust him. I'd prefer not to tender him. We have to be better and get out of this mindset that we need to keep people for fear we don't have anyone else at the position.

This also makes me wonder if Brian would dare take a WR high or bring one in FA due to concerns that Aaron would reject him.

PeteK's picture

Kirk, can't blame him for being upset about Nelson. I would of loved his 63/700 plus 35 Fds this season ,which could have been higher with Rogers. The Nelson move still puzzles me.

Jonathan Spader's picture

TGR great work as always. Would love to see a breakdown like you just gave for Allison on a player by player basis article!

As for what I would do with Cobb, Ball's bread and butter. Make him a low ball offer and jump for joy if he accepts and shrug my shoulders when he more than likely walks.

Bure9620's picture

Honestly TGR, I think Allison may be expendable at this point. MVS and St. Brown will likely have a expanded roles and both are more atheltic, cheaper and younger with significantly more upside, and in their 2nd years. Is it really worth tendering a WR that is likely 5th on the depth chart?? He is kind of a JAG now. (I have Kumerow ahead of him right now.) Thoughts?

PeteK's picture

You make valid pts. Bure ,but Allison had chemistry with Rogers as witnessed by his 11 FDs of his 20 rec in 5 games and he won't break the bank. Offense struggled with our rookie receivers and it didn't seem to improve much. It would be good to have a known commodity just in case rookies don't progress. Improvement on the O line specifically at RG could make all of these receivers much better.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Bure: I just don't know about ESB, MVS, Kumerow or Graham for that matter. I view Allison as fairly cheap insurance, and I note that tenders aren't guaranteed - the player has to make the 53-man roster to earn a dime. Of course, I also suggested signing Allison to a 3yr, $9M contract, so that would be a commitment.

I also (in my armchair GM fanpost on APC) kept Kumerow over Allison, so I am not a big fan. Seems to me AR needs three viable receiving options, with two of them being pretty good. Right now I see Adams and ? I don't think Adams, Graham and Allison plus the two or three best of ESB, MVS, Kumerow or Moore (are we keeping Moore and/or 7 WRs again?) = Jennings, Driver, JJ, and Finley, or Nelson, Jennings, Driver, rookie Cobb, and JJ. Even career years from Nelson and Cobb, with some contribution from Adams in 2014 required health and that seems the absolute minimum for this QB.

I do like ESB, and maybe MVS can be a Mike Wallace type (or better). Maybe Lare below is right and the new HC and/or OC will have to stake their reputations on this decision.

TL:DR - Allision is cheap insurance; not clear that he's expendable.

Rak47's picture

"I have Kumerow ahead of him right now.) Thoughts?" My first thought is laughable. Based on what, 1 TD he caught 2weeks ago? Allison has had a number of big games and number of big plays resulting in TD's, and is 23 months younger than Kumerow. Bure9620. Some truly amusing thoughts come from your head at times, lol. No rhyme or reason other than he's from whitewater and he looks like Jesus, lol. And that's no knock on Kumerow who is a good player [ I hope he makes the team] but will be lucky to make it next year as a 5 or 6 receiver.

Lare's picture

Everyone is basing their opinions of the current WRs based on the current offensive scheme. That will change in the next few weeks.

John Kirk's picture

Allison and Kumerow are JAGs no matter the system.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Lare,

I am basing my opinions off of athleticism that won't change regardless of the system. The experience Allison has may or may not be as valuable in the next system. ESB, Moore, ESB will still be taller, faster, and stronger.

Rak47's picture

Allison is 6'3 so he's tall enough. And while ESB, Moore, and MVS may be faster it doesn't mean they're quicker in short area, more explosive, or agile. It also doesn't mean they have more heart , smarts or can catch the ball better than Allison either. If only height, weight and speed were everything there would be a lot less first round busts.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Allison takes time to find the open holes in a defense. The reason that speed is so important in the NFL is until GB gets the right side of our OL fixed Rodgers needs to get the ball out of his hands quicker. This requires short passes which requires WRs to get open in a hurry. Allison's biggest strength is finding holes in the defense which takes time. Time that GB hasn't had in recent years.

Adams has found ways to break receiver's ankles at the LOS and can get open almost instantly. He developed sure hands even though it took him years. Allison already has fantastic hands he needs to take a page from Adams book and learn to shed CBs faster to take his game to the next level. If he can learn to do that he can reach a level I didn't think he was capable of. If that happens that would be fantastic.

Rak47's picture

If you go back and check Allison's scouting report coming out, two of his listed strengths was his ability to beat press coverage at the los and high point balls and pluck them from the air. Which is what is asked of our receivers. And while he may not be as explosive as Kevin King or Jaire Alexander with their respective 20yd shuttle times of 3.89 and 3.98, his 4.26 is right in line with the 20yd shuttle times of ESB, MVS, and Aaron Jones at 4.15, 4.17. and 4.24. Showing he has adequate short area quickness. I think his biggest pluses are his brains and his determination though.

stockholder's picture

Do we need any? No! But Breeland and Mathews still do bring something. Leadership, Pass Push, surplus. I want players that want to play football. The defense wasn't bad with them. Pettine used them well. I believe signing them both is a good decision. Cobb not so much.

Packers0808's picture

Agree a lot with the Breeland thing! Young and if he stays healthy lots of up side and leadership built n there. A must resign I think, young and experienced!

jeepingmakooi's picture

I'm all for breeland. He plays a great game and he is a good number two for when King gets hurt again. I wouldn't mind Clay coming back if he goes in the middle and of the saftey mess of players brought in I wouldn't mind seeing Campbell again this year in camp. Up until he was hurt he played well

Mark King's picture

This is probably the BEST article that I have seen written about the subject of the Packers off-season needs !! Especially agree about what the priorities should be for the coaching search !!!!

Bert's picture

Time to move on from the past-their prime and oft-injured. Pull off the bandaid and rebuild the roster as quickly as possible.

Packer Dave's picture

I hope Clay comes back inside. An ILB crew of Martinez, Morrison, CM and Burks wouldn't be the worst thing. Josh Jones would do well to get time in there too. OLB/DE and OL should take precedent this offseason.

Cobb is looking more replaceable, especially with the young recievers developing. If the pack takes a TE high that's a ton more snaps to give away.

Coldworld's picture

But there is a problem: too many ILBs. No playing time for developing players. The temptation to shuffle reality for fan favorites is strong, but typically, better to let go too early than too late because the only way with the latter approach is down.

dobber's picture

I'm 50-50 on bringing CMIII back. We seem to romanticize his inside play a couple years back as being really good, but--if you put any stock in PFF and other rating services--I recall his play as being rated below average (can someone check that?). He looked good because the players he put on the bench by moving inside were that bad and it gave more snaps to guys like Julius Peppers.

The value in bringing CMIII back is the flexibility he would grant to the defense (assuming they play a similar scheme). They were so thin on the outside this season that they had no choice but to overuse him...he played more snaps this season than he has since 2015 (when he played inside). But he gives them additional depth both on the inside and outside, and the ability to rush the passer from either spot.

The question is: which player do you put on the bench to play CMIII inside? Some want him to play next to Martinez, which makes him a base ILB, but do you take him off the field to put a Burks/Jones/etc. in on passing downs? Is he better than Martinez? I'm just not sure there's a place for him as a regular player at this stage...and how much do you pay a part-timer? I'll leave with this, though: Pettine schemed Martinez into 5 sacks this season rushing from the interior. Could he do more with CMIII?

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I think a lot of these decisions can't be made in a vacuum (well, except House - chuck him). As for re-signing CM3, tell me:

1. Who is the DC?
2. What are we doing with Perry?
3. What price are we paying for CM3?
4. How does Gute want to attack FA/draft?

Under 4 I wonder if Gute is willing to pay big for a pass rusher and/or a safety or two (they were cheap last year)? Maybe he's thinking he should sign a good starting OG, a WR, or some combination of both. The combine is 2-26 to 3-4-19, so maybe he's eyeing up an OT high if Little or Williams slides and then a pass rusher, or perhaps OLB then OT or safety with the first three picks (from the mocks I am seeing).

Sort of off but also on topic: I have no idea what I think of Fackrell or what to expect from him in 2019. Hmmm, I don't trust him to produce 10.5 sacks, that's for sure, at least not enough to pencil him in for that kind of production.

HankScorpio's picture

I think the decision that Matthews no longer has any value as an outside pass rusher can be made right now, even without knowing who will be HC or DC. He's not that. He hasn't been that in a while. He should not be offered a contract to be an outside pass rusher. If he can be schemed to success, so can somebody else.

The questions that flow from that point are unknowns, including whether the next HC/DC sees any value at all and/or if Matthews would accept a role that is more like 2014/2015 than the rest of his career.

Minniman's picture

I think that both CM3 and Cobb could be fairly described by all as "past their prime" players, whose futures at GB are probably going to be shaped not only by which coaching staff come in, but which other FA's come in.

I will be surprised if either player are a week 1 or 2 priority signings in FA by another team; but having said that, would see value in them both as depth pieces with reduced roles back at GB.

Regarding the title of the article, I actually see the decisions regarding Bryan Bulaga, Nick Perry and Jimmy Graham as more of a concern.

Throw in Breeland and Wilkerson too

flackcatcher's picture

As you say tgr these decision will not be made in a vacuum. Our problem, as fans is we have no clue who the next HC and his staff will be. Or how much power that HC will have in player personal if any. Say it's Joe Philbin (an example only) then we can judge off the schemes that are run by him and Pettine. We know what their personal needs are by the player packages and sub patterns. As it is now, we know nothing. We will just have to wait for the HC candidates at 1265 to begin.

EddieLeeIvory's picture

Josh Jones stinks.
To think that we took him (nobody had him mocked before Rd 4) in rd 2 just one pick before JuJu Smith-Schuster still stings.

dobber's picture

The physical tools are there. He's headed for year 3 and will likely have a role, but the scary part is that the knocks on him coming out are still issues after two years as a pro.

Dash Riprock's picture

I saw Josh Jones at Home Depot in Green Bay about a month ago. He looked angry. Don't know what that means.

The TKstinator's picture

Unreasonable prices?

dobber's picture

Couldn't find the plungers.

Gort's picture

Because he missed out on 11% at Menards.

Dash Riprock's picture

It's possible Gort as Menards was having a 11% er at that time but I don't think he really needs to save the 11%. I don't know why but I still love Home Depot better. I just have better vibes. Ask Leotis, he'll probably agree. Anyway, I really did see him. He looked really skinny compared to when you see him on the field in uniform. Very angry /serious look and seemed to know exactly where to go. If I were to guess, his lady friend told him she needed something and he had to reluctantly go in. This really has nothing to do with football other than I saw Josh Jones at Home Depot so please try not to read into this too much. Just wanted to share it with everyone.

P.S. I also saw Jason Wilde looking at tires at Fleet Farm about three years ago. That was around August I believe. Don't know if he bought them but also wanted to share it.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Dash,

HomeDepot price matches Menard's 11% and you get the rebait mailed to you on a giftcard quickly. Rather than waiting around for a piece if paper from Menards for a month.

LeotisHarris's picture

I do agree, Dash. I always choose Home Depot over Menard's because they treat their employees better. I had a friend who worked at Menards. One year the employee Christmas gift was a bobblehead of Ray "The Menards Guy." Also, in terms of philanthropy, John Menard didn't cough up a red-ass dime until a heart attack almost sent him to Jeebus and he decided springing for an ER at Mayo in Eau Claire would be a nice thing to do.

Cool that you have these brushes with celebrities, Dash. A lot of people are saying Wilde hangs out in the Tire Section at Farm and Fleet most weekdays, just for the hell of it. That's kind of sad if you think about it.

Bure9620's picture

Breeland will likely command $6-7 mil a year, I am for extending him. I would like to see Gute spend in FA on the right side if the o-line that is likely $12-15 mil. We need vets up front for the later stages of Rodgers career, go ahaead and draft a Tackle to develop. I see no way for CMIII or Cobb to be retained, unless it is at a huge discount. Frankly, I think Bulaga will be gone as well, unless he is open to a restructuring. I believe he is not.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Just last year Breeland landed a 3 year $24 million contract from the Panthers before he failed the physical with a foot injury. He was a solid contributor for the Packers in 2018 I really doubt he'd sign for 1-2 mil less than he was offered last year.

dobber's picture

Hard to say...he signed with Carolina a little later in FA so he wasn't a high profile signing. Spent 2/3 of an injury-riddled season with the Packers playing for not very much. I don't think he can expect to get what he got from Carolina, but with the cap continually increasing and CBs always in demand, who knows?

With a new coaching staff coming in, who knows if they'll value him or not?

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I thought Breeland was rather up and down as well. I'd say less than $8M adjusted for whatever the FA market for CBs is. If it's hot like it was for WRs and CBs, maybe he sniffs $8M again. Structure might be more important.

Lare's picture

Lots of teams with a lot of salary cap space, I'd be surprised if there are many bargains this offseason.

Since '61's picture

Happy New Year to my fellow CHTV bloggers and to the CHTV authors and staff.
Thanks to everyone for great articles and discussions throughout 2018.
Here's to a better 2019 for our Packers.
Have a happy, healthy and prosperous 2019 to all!
Thanks, Since '61

dobber's picture

Cheers to you, too, '61, and to our CHTV colleagues!

cheesehead1's picture

Same to you Since’61.....Wishing the Packers success with their coaching search. Hope we get someone who makes his players more accountable.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I liked what I saw of Campbell. Love to sign him as a UFA for just over the vet min. and probably for just one year.
GB could hold out the dearth of talent at safety as an inducement to choose GB. He will get a fair shot (well, the draft might change things).

Bure9620's picture

Agreed

John Kirk's picture

Given the dearth of talent at safety...was passing on the potential DROY in Derwin James, in retrospect, worth trading down and getting a 1st rounder at the end of round 1 and Jaire Alexander in exchange?

We could've had a LeRoy Butler back in Green Bay and chose not to draft him. Which path, in hindsight, would've been better?

JohnnyLogan's picture

Agree. Derwin James was there and everyone thought we'd take him. I'd trade Jaire and the last pick in rd 1 for James. He may be a perennial All-Pro at a position of great need for us. OTOH, there's hope that Jaire turns into an All-Pro as well. Just worried about his size and availability.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

No to Derwin James over Jaire and a first. The 2019 draft is loaded and deep. Then again, after Gute does whatever he does with the NO's pick, there be room for hindsight!

Lare's picture

Always easy to complain about what didn't happen in the past.

The TKstinator's picture

That’s exactly what I wasn’t saying yesterday.

Oppy's picture

Fantastic!

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

There's something you didn't say yesterday? Really?

Gort's picture

Let me compare CM3 and AJ Hawk.

AJ quite simply got slow and it seemed to happen overnight. I remember a game at Minnesota when AJ looked like he was running in mud when attempting to cover a TE or RB. The guy blew by AJ. AJ could tackle anybody, but only if he could catch him. He never lost the will to play and play hard. Packers released him after the season.

CM is getting slow. There have been numerous examples where he lost contain. For a while now I thought that CM was running too far inside or outside, but he may simply be getting slower. CM still gets pressure, but not getting the sacks. I have called for CM to move inside for a few years, I think it is his best position. If he is starting to shy away from contact as Cory suggests, then it is time. Bye bye.

Also, Happy New Year to all Packers Fans!

stockholder's picture

I thought Clay was drinking before he played in a couple of games. I can still see his pressure to the QB. I see the angles to the ball carrier are missed. But I would much rather have clay, then a Perry who sits the bench. The packers must make the smart choice. Either they get another Cobb (Perry) who never gets right, or they pay Mathews for his rush. I believe this team could go the way of Nelson. If Nelson wasn't in the plans. I don't see how they really sign anybody. Jordy Nelson got his money. But I believe many players saw a lack of dealing in good faith. Nelson wanted to retire a packer. The packers made a cost saving decision. This year they not only have the money. They can show some gratitude. Something not all good business' do. Effort goes a long way. Players that are close to retirement still can do a lot for a team. This is where the word Pride comes into view. Clay Mathews has it with character. Will management show some appreciation.

dobber's picture

"This is where the word Pride comes into view. Clay Mathews has it. Will management show some appreciation."

Many would argue that management showed its appreciation by letting him finish this contract.

stockholder's picture

you can't go there. Go there with Perry not Clay. I still don't see them signing anybody. But they were willing to pay Favre. Clay is a fan favorite too.

John Kirk's picture

Who cares about fan favorites. So was Jordy. You don't run an NFL organization based on sentiment. See: Belichick

stockholder's picture

So your judging Clay on No value. Big mistake. He'll make more money someplace else. Still hear from Hawk? No, You hear from the ones that were shunned. (Jennings etc.)

John Kirk's picture

Yes. He's been stealing money for years just like Cobb. You don't reward money stealers by giving them more money to steal. You move on and stop the stealing.

Perry is a tougher case because if you cut him he steals double digit dead cap money.

Again, sentimentality is not how you run an NFL franchise. That's why Ted stayed as long as he did. It's why Capers stayed too long...Winston Moss...Mason Crosby...the list could go on and on.

stockholder's picture

John stealing money? Thats crazy. there was no defense after Peppers left. And even with peppers there were holes. Not to mention Capers getting canned. 2010 John. Mathews years were wasted. I think your confusing sentimentality with business. That was TTs problem. Draft first.

John Kirk's picture

Crazy? Clay has been worth the 40 million cap hit over the last 3 years for what he's given us? I feel like I'm in bizarro world right now.

HankScorpio's picture

"Perry is a tougher case because if you cut him he steals double digit dead cap money"

It gets easier if you get your verb tense correct. Perry stole that $18.5 mil in SB $$ (past tense). All you can do now is control how much more he can steal and how that previously stolen money hits the cap.

He's due $11 mil in new money. It's crazy to let him collect that. That's throwing good money after bad. The pertinent question is whether you let the $7.4 mil in previously stolen money go against the 2019 cap or the 2020 cap. I'd put it against the 2020 cap and get the entire $11 mil back in cap space for 2019.

John Kirk's picture

"verb tense" I gotta hand it to you. Never seen that on a message board before, but you're right. I'd neglected to focus on his actual pay out for staying. I just recalled his dead money from memory.

Perry is a no-win situation. Just another misallocation of funds by the Packers org. We've gotten way too good at that.

Be curious to see how Brian views dead money vs. Ted. No way Ted moves on from Perry. Will Brian?

Gort's picture

Stockholder, You start with a comment about CM3 drinking before a game and end with a comment about his great character? Not sure how both are true, unless the drink is Gatorade.

Bure9620's picture

He drinks skinny girl Margaritas, so he kinda drinks

stockholder's picture

Business man's dinner. You often have a beer or two with a burger too. At least I do.

Lare's picture

"This is where the word Pride comes into view. Clay Mathews has it with character."

Go back and watch the tape of the last two games. Matthews had zero stats in the Jets game- no tackles, no sacks, nothing. He had one tackle in the Lions game- one. To make matters worse he was playing not to touch anyone, not to get hurt- he was literally standing there watching his teammates making the tackles.

If this is what pride and character is, I don't any part of it on the Packers roster. He's no better than HHCD and Randall.

stockholder's picture

you can't judge anyone on those last two games. Especially a PROVEN vet. Those games were like pre season all the way. I'm sure when Mathews saw MM go. He knew he would have to test the market. Mathews spoke up about the talent at OLB behind him. He set the bar in camp. Throwing yellow flags on him early in the season would slow anybody. You want new. Your forcing Gute to take another OLB first. Not the better player. And That does not work in the NFL anymore, as TT found out. Blue chippers are a must have first now. And Pro Bowlers cost draft picks. Don't expect miracles. They won't sign Mathews if they change this defense. I still see value. You want him gone because he wants a fair contract. How many lessons do people have to learn on this site. Gone J.Jones, Jennings, Burnett, Hyde, Williams, Hayward, etc. Didn't that hurt the packers when they drafted their replacements? You can't judge everyone on players like A.J. Hawk. You GET POOR DRAFTS>

Gort's picture

I just don't see CM3s current value as high as you do.

Minniman's picture

Who's to say Gort?

I think that it was Bure that identified up the post that there's a LOT of teams with > $50 mill cap space.

If CM3 gets another team to pay big for him then well done Clay!

I personally agree with you that he's now a solid depth player that would do well in a supporting role, and his $$$ should reflect this.

The TKstinator's picture

Running in mud is a great workout.
It’s also great for the complexion.

Silver lining, amigo.

Bure9620's picture

Happy New year.

Just a thought on McDaniels, I see positives and negatives with him as a head coach, but I certainly think he could jump start Rodgers at this stage in his career with some fresh concepts, he could challenge Rodgers. (Similar to what McCarthy did with Favre). I do not however, see him as a leader of men that commands respect.

One caveat, for those of you whom are "retain Pettine" people, I highly doubt a McDaniels regime retains Pettine, Flores would likely follow him as DC. I live in NE, and I can tell you, the feeling here is Flores is not real happy about not being named DC, and then subsequently becomes the de facto DC, or "Defensive Playcaller." Many close to the Patriots here believe he is as good as gone next year, for that reason and is simply using this season as an audition. Could be very interesting. I am really neutral on Pettine. He certainly improved the unit, but some of the improvement was overstated when you look at DVOA. We can certainly do worse, I would like to see Pettine with a legit Edge Rusher and a moderately healthy unit.

dobber's picture

I think the HC candidate pool is thin enough that Flores gets an HC gig in 2019, but you pose an interesting scenario. The question is, as defensive playcaller, is his position "DC-like" to the extent that the Pats could block an interview/parallel move?

"I would like to see Pettine with a legit Edge Rusher and a moderately healthy unit."

You and me, both!

Dash Riprock's picture

Pettine is just a great football coach. I compare him to Holmgren in how he carries himself and speaks to the public. He commands respect. I think he's our most critical piece at this time more so than selecting another head coach. As long as Pettine stays is what's more important to me. The head coach has to deal with Rodgers and all the chaos. Pettine can just coach the defense and next season can take it to another level with great health and a few subtractions and better additions.

LambeauPlain's picture

I like Pettine. He has been playing with many 2nd and 3rd stringers for over half the season on a team with a startling lack of quality depth.

On Sunday, only 2 of the 11 D starters to start the season were on the field...Martinez (good player) and CMIII (invisible again).

Pettine needs more top shelf starters and more quality depth. He is a good coach...but he and his staff did not have the D ready to play on Sunday. After the STs gave up the TD and the team went down 14-0, they folded. That was very disappointing.

If the Packers were to hire McDaniels, I could see him retaining Pettine as he coached against him many times when Mike was DC of the Jets and Bills.

If the Packers were to go with Brian Flores I could see him retaining Pettine as well, for the same reason.

Another DC the two Patriot assistants might try to hire is Todd Bowles. Like Pettine and Wade Phillips, Bowles is a great DC but HC is not his calling. Phillips figured that out years ago and has thrived rebuilding and creating great defenses (Rams the latest). Pettine has figured this out too and wants to remain a DC. I would like to see him stay.

Tarynfor12's picture

Resigning Matthews and Cobb is the first sign that the team will remain doing business as usual. Keeping Perry because of a cap hit will be business as usual.

Matthews is not a leader and never was so keeping him under that delusion is as bad as keeping him for what he hasn't done much less what he did long ago....False optimism and memories.

Cobb by injury probability alone is not worth the signing.

Perry...all the thoughts and things I've about him since being drafted....please release him,let him go. Do we really need another season of some finding reasons to justify his being in GB at all and ever.

Gort's picture

Engelbert who?

Dash Riprock's picture

Gort I got it right away. I don't understand why people dislike that song so much.

Gort's picture

No sense of humor.

Dash Riprock's picture

So true Gort. Many of these younger people here think the song White Christmas is a racist song and I am sure Please Release Me to them is a rape song. Different times Gort.

Gort's picture

So glad that I didn't make a play on words using the singer's last name.
I might have ended up on double secret probation.

Dash Riprock's picture

lol.. Yes you would Gort, yes you would.

PeteK's picture

Agree fully, we need to get rid of all these injury prone big money contracts. Cobb was not only hurt ,but dropped too many passes. However, for 5 mill I would keep Clay as he showed some value early in the season. Pass rushers are hard to come by and a rotation of Clay ,Fackrell, and hopefully an excellent rookie would have value and dept.

LambeauPlain's picture

Except CMIII is no longer a pass rusher. He can't do it anymore. He's lost a couple steps, seems timid, and can't disengage his initial blocker. He's NEVER double teamed any more. 8 years ago he was getting TRIPLE teamed at times. He doesn't get sacks and has become an awful tackler...I saw him whiff many tackles this year. He never used to do that!

I also have suspicions he was using PEDs. When the NFL investigated Mike Neal, CMIII and Peppers in the PED probe in 2016...and Neal introduced his PED dealer to both CMIII and Peppers in Lambeau field...Neal was let go and since then, Matthews has done very little on the field. Did his performance plunge coincide with him ending the PEDs?

And since Neal left the Packers before the 2016 season, he hasn't been signed by ANYBODY. No other team would touch him.

Samson's picture

T4/12
I couldn't have said it any better. -- The status quo has disappeared in GB. -- (Fire a HC in-season -- no way!!)
CM3 has never been a leader -- never will be. --- Gone.
Cobb gets hurt in practice -- Gone.
Perry is reaping the rewards of one season -- Gone.

Coldworld's picture

Perry I am open to giving another chance under the circumstances. Keeping Cobb and Matthews would, I agree, be a failure to grasp the nettle of the need to improve. The fact is that these two players are replaceable more cheaply at their current level of production with more upside as well.

Cobb is not available and is not a game changer when he is. Put it this way. If the rookies don’t progress, Cobb is not going to make up for that. We need to move on.

Matthews would be a short term option at ILB. I think we need youth behind Martinez. He will be in the way of draftees at OLB (with any luck). I just think it is time.

Perry would be subject to the same analysis as Cobb were it not for the difference in cap hit/contract. At this point, however, it makes little sense to cut him. We should be drafting his replacement though.

flackcatcher's picture

During the first half of the season CM3 was playing as a defacto ILB in Pettine's defense. I still think his finest game this year was against the Lions, when he and Burks had to cover both RB and TE in the second half. Pretty much shut down the Lions short passing game and made the come back possible. (Ron Zook: Nuke him from obit to sure he never comes back) With the loss of Wilkerson then Perry, he was forced back into the OLB and edge contain. All in all, he did a pretty good job in the second half. Packers just ran out of bodies in the front seven by the end of the season.

dobber's picture

"Ron Zook: Nuke him from obit to sure he never comes back"

...it's the only way to be sure.

cheesehead1's picture

Hope our GM and new coach hold players accountable. Regardless of injuries, this season was an embarrassment. Time to move on from Cobb, constantly injured.

canadapacker's picture

My take - Cobb is done - there is no way that he is as good as Edelman or any other slot type receiver because he has slowed down too much to get the YAC that these guys need to produce. CM 3 should be allowed back on a smaller contract and could be productive in some of the sub packages where he can be kept fresh. Perry - done - gone - take the dead money hit. Not worth the roster spot. But if he shows up for training camp with a different mentality in great shape ( not good shape but great shape) let him try and make the team by beating out other guys - and that means he has to be better both now and in the future ( younger guys with upside have potential.)
Extend Breland - Keep Martinez Fackrell etc and add some faster lighter and meaner guys both inside and outside. I love our interior line - dont know if Wilkerson will come back strong - but unless a great draft pick falls to us - Daniels, Adams, Clarke, Lowery, can be both run stoppers and interior push guys.

I love the 3-4 but I think that these defensive schemes are predicated upon guys playing to their potential - I feel that the Packers have lost this pressure -and the big thing is that we tackle like crap - that is about practice and technique - and perhaps that is MMs fault - we shall find out but the playoff teams all have the least missed tackles and we seem to have the most - especially on those quick screens and jet sweeps that eat us up.

PeteK's picture

Lancaster is also a solid backup especially against the run.

stockholder's picture

After seeing LanCaster do well. They don't need Lawrence Guy. But let's not forget what they did with RAJI. Moved him over. I would prefer they keep Clark inside. I hate the De's in this draft. Most can't play LB. And most are to small to hold up in the NFL. So I would take a Nt but DT size. (Just to play the ends.) And Keep speed at OLB. 4.55 speed. Oliver and Simmons are going to be good football players.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

GB can't wait to see how Perry looks in TC. GB has to pay Perry $4.8M on March 15 if they haven't cut him already. Another factor is GB knows more about Perry's ankle injury than we do. Surely Perry couldn't be that bad if he wasn't playing injured, right?

Lare's picture

How would we know? He's been injured every year hasn't he?

Bure9620's picture

How mich "smaller" of a contract? CMIII has an $11.3 cap hit. Would he accept half? $5 mil? I doubt CMIII's agent would let him sign that deal before testing the market. CMIII is worth no more than $3.5 mil

Lare's picture

Some people say you can't get rid of Matthews and Perry because the Packers have no-one to replace them.

This season, Martinez had 144 total tackles and 5 sacks. Heck, Fackrell had 42 total tackles and 10.5 sacks. Combined, Matthews and Perry had 67 total tackles and 5 sacks.

The Packers can save around $15 million in cap money by letting Matthews and Perry go. I think it'll be fairly easy to replace their production through free agency and the draft for a lot less money.

HankScorpio's picture

Exactly. Matthews and Perry are not productive players anymore. Replacing them does not require finding Pro Bowlers.

Gort's picture

The best ability is availability.

Lphill's picture

I rather keep Clay the Perry .

Bert's picture

The team was 6-9-1 not because we have so many good players but because most of these guys just aren't good enough, past their prime or have injury issues. Can't waste any more years waiting for guys like Perry and Cobb to get healthy or CM3 to rejuvenate. Cut the dead wood and move forward!

Dash Riprock's picture

No more corn on the Cobb for me. Just not as good as it used to be. As for Matthews, Green Bay needs to give him a final haircut. To quote Kevin Greene, "it's time".

Dash

NitschkeFan's picture

I think we always have to preface our opinions on FA's with "at what price?". For the "right price" almost anyone is worth a contract. For some guys that would only be the minimum.

Also we do not know yet who will be available from other teams when FA signings begin and what sort of money gets tossed around by the teams with 80-100 mill in cap space. That information will change many of our current opinions of what a realistic "right price" may be.

I agree with most of the posters here. Breeland would be a worthwhile offer.
Wilkerson (if healthy) would be worth an offer, one year prove it deal.
CMIII only if it is a very reasonable 2-3 mill one year deal.
I don't know who will be left to play TE, so for a small price I'd be willing to pay Kendricks to be 3rd string TE.
Allison also for "the right price", but that would IMHO only be in the 3 mill range.

Let's hope we strike gold in the draft.

Dash Riprock's picture

"Let's hope we strike gold in the draft."

Or oil........ black gold, Texas tea.

Chuck all the tight ends except Tonyan. Geronimo? I love the cool indian first name but other than that? meh MVS has star potential better than Adams if he can be trusted. I know his parents trust him but we need Rodgers to trust him. The problem is Rodgers doesn't trust MVS or his own parents. Damn that guy is complicated.

Packers0808's picture

The more you say, .................................?

Dash Riprock's picture

Packers 0808, are you trying to say that I'm complicated because you don't understand me? Wow, so I'm now in Aaron Rodgers territory with you and others? You see the problem with finding the right fit for head coach Packers 0808? What if that head coach is like you and I am Rodgers. You don't "get me" or my references because you are too old or in my case I'm the old guy and you don't understand where I am coming from with the Beverly Hillbillies theme song reference. Yeah, this search for a new head coach is going to have to be a perfect fit for Rodgers. Rodgers should be in all interviews, honestly. They definitely have to be on the same page mentally and that especially includes humor and jokes and stupid tv/movie references etc as Rodgers brings them up a lot. Forrest Gregg or Vince Lombardi would not be a good fit for Aaron Rodgers let's just put it that way. I hope Murphy is reading this. This was a breakthru in my opinion on who to hire. Thanks Packers0808. You might have just saved the franchise with your ....................?

Dash

Gort's picture

Never stop the references. It keeps the humor in this forum and that is one of the reasons I read it. I am still trying to figure out how to get the lyrics from the "Hawaii 5-0" theme song into the conversation.

Dash Riprock's picture

lol.. the lyrics? That will be a tough one. I'll leave that one to you. Good luck and book em' Gorto

ILPackerBacker's picture

This is actually the best article I have seen from Cory. Few packer fans will admit how far CM3 has fallen, for how long he has quit and what a terrible effect that has on the team and young players.

Accountability has to start at the top. That means a GM, a head coach, A SPECIAL TEAMS COACH and players who are taking plays off.

There are no secrets in the locker room.

ALL THE PLAYERS KNOW who is playing and who is dogging it. They know when the special teams coach is out of his depth....even when the fool admits it in press conferences that anyone can go back and watch.

Cobb has not quit, he just is to slow and to prone to drops and fumbles. he can not take contact.

Tramon, OTH has quit too. He needs to go.

JohnnyLogan's picture

Getting back to WR's, I always remember Ron Wolf saying his biggest regret was he never brought in enough WR weapons for Favre. Rodgers had weapons early on in Jennings, Jordy, Cobb, Jones... but now it's Adams and Jags. TT, as bad as his last few years were drafting, his first drafts he always seemed to pick a super WR in the 2nd round. We have 3 picks in the first 44. One should be a receiver.

Question, why isn't Pettine being talked about as HC?

Since '61's picture

Pettine has already stated that he does not want to be an NFL HC again. Thanks, Since '61

ILPackerBacker's picture

It is very difficult to project numbers to and from different teams.

For example; if Jordy kept this years level of production and got the number of targets that Adams had (both played 15 games) then Jordy is way over 1000 yards receiving and 121 catches.

121 catches......does that add context to the WR need in GB?

We need a WR and RB, two skill position players at a minimum

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Gute cut a 4th round pick after one year (TT's guy, Biegel). Will Gute cut another 4th round pick, Moore, but this time it is his own guy?

Wilkerson didn't look all that good when he played. He looked competent in run D, nothing in pass rush. Not interested in him at $5M again. He is better than an RJF, so maybe $3.25M?

Guam's picture

I think Wilkerson is one of the few interesting questions on the Packers free agent list. Money is part of the question, scheme is the other part. If they stay with a 3-4 and only need 6 DL, I might be inclined to let him go. Lancaster is just as good a run defender and much cheaper. If they move to a 4-3, they will need the additional body and should re-sign him. I like your price point - $5 million is too high.

Spurgeon's Cigar's picture

I really don't see these as very tough decisions. Clearly both are vastly overpaid for what they contribute. Let Cobb walk and bring back Matthews at a discount to play in the middle. It's time to quit looking at these guys thru a blinding Green and Gold filter. Stop the whole over valuing of our own players. It will be good to have a fresh start.

AgrippaLII's picture

I hate to say it but I agree with CJ...the statement AR made about RC is telling...I think everyone zeroes in on Randall Cobb and ignores that he also said the offense clicks when they are able to attack the slot. So for Christ's sake bring in a new guy that'll make his living in the slot. Randall Cobb isn't the only slot receiver in all of football! I'll hate to see Cobb and Mathews go...they've been truly great for the Packers but I understand why it will have to be done.

Gort's picture

Can't afford to fill the 53 with dead weight. Performance is required. I like to look at Andrew Herman's game grades and below is posted now for season totals.

RC season total is +0.80. Adams is top WR @ +14.20. RC is 2nd @ +0.8 and the other 6 grade at between +0.60 and -2.05. RC is only a little better, but he missed 7 full games and at what price?

CM3 season total is -8.65 and is listed as the BOTTOM defensive player.
Let me say that again - CM3 is the BOTTOM defensive player.

Sorry, but neither RC nor CM3 are worth their price.

HoLeCrap's picture

I too can make a list of dead wood guys the team should cut and Mathews Perry are for sure on it.
The problem we all have is our lists are long and the pack only has so much money for free agency and draft picks.
Thus some guys stay but hopefully with the mindset they are back up roles and rest breakers, not relied on to start.
Take Tremont Williams, are satisfied with a 36 year old safety. Is this playoff material?
No you've got to rebuild or your just putting the pain off for another year. The pack play a brutal schd next year. With this current team, no playoffs for you.

Oppy's picture

Ernesto,

The Packers' 2019 opponents (outside of NFC North):
12-4 Chiefs
12-4 Chargers
10-6 Cowboys
9-7 Eagles
7-9 Redskins
7-9 Panthers
6-10 Broncos
5-11 Giants
4-12 49ers
4-12 Raiders

The TKstinator's picture

Not brutal.

Oppy's picture

That's what I was thinking.
More iffy to poor than strong to dominant.

That said.. you never really know until you play the games. Off season acquisitions and injuries can change the entire landscape.

Gort's picture

Brutality is in the eye of the beholder?

The TKstinator's picture

Well put.

John Kirk's picture

The home schedule looks like an easy road as of now. The road looks difficult. At KC, LAC, SF, NYG, DAL

Dash Riprock's picture

Loved the soup nazi reference in the end Derty.

Dash

Guam's picture

I was interested in retaining CMIII as an ILB until I watched the last two games. I have moved into the release him camp. He has clearly lost a step and his desire to play hard (which was always his trademark). Time to move on.

The only free agent I would definately like the Packers to resign is Breeland with the potential of resigning Wilkerson depending on scheme.

Since '61's picture

If the Packers are going to clean house do it all the way and get it done. Chuck Perry, Cobb, Matthews, House, Ryan, Brice, Pleasant, Bell, Graham and Kendricks. Take the cap hits and get it over with.

Bring in younger and more athletic players. If not we go through another season with older, slower and injured players. We've moved on from Capers, TT and MM, now it's time to move on from their players. They are not helping us win any longer.

I like having experienced players but these guys are just not contributing any longer. In most cases they are hurting the team. Finish the house cleaning and include Murphy as far as I'm concerned.
Thanks, Since '61

Dash Riprock's picture

Excellent post Since 61. I must say I don't disagree with anything you said with ridding ourselves of these players. I also must apologize to you. It's a small thing probably but I used the word "chuck" in one of my posts. I never used it before but I realized it was from reading your posts as you used it a few times now and I really love that word and I ended up using it. Just wanted you to know that I wasn't trying to copycat you on purpose.

Dash

Jonathan Spader's picture

Dash,

I really like the word shed instead of chuck in this instance. Shedding is casting off dead weight. I think of chuck as up chuck and coughing up those cap hits even though it hurts. Get it all out buddy.

Dash Riprock's picture

I have to say I still like chuck over shed. I think of tossing out when I "chuck" and I "chuck" without any care or emotion. With shed I think of a shed or building first then I think of a cat shedding hair. After that I think of your meaning. Have to stick with Since 61's "chuck". Everyone is different. Chuck it, who the hell gives a shed about this. lol

Doug_In_Sandpoint's picture

Could go with Slough...although it has two meanings. When pronounced “slew” it could be the stinky bog-type situation we find ourself in. Like our edge rusher starters and depth are a rancid wastewater slough.

From Wikipedia: Sloughing (pronounced "sluffing") in biology refers to the act of shedding or casting off dead tissue, such as cells of the endometrium, shed during menstruation, or the shedding of skin in amphibians. Skin sloughing is the process of shedding dead surface cells from the skin.

We need to slough off the dead acne-scarred skin leaving the pink baby-freshness that is hiding beneath the surface of this Packer team.

LambeauPlain's picture

Of the soon to be FAs, the only guys I hope return are Breeland (starting quality), Wilkerson (incomplete and would come cheap), Ryan (solid backup depth), and Campbell (again, solid depth for a weak position).

But ink Breeland ASAP. With King's troubling injury history and questions about Jackson's CB play, he's needed.

I would also cut Perry. He's undependable and a below average edge rusher, and lost his ability to set the edge vs the run this year when healthy.

I also think Graham should probably go too, but until the Pack has his replacement in the building, should keep him. I would like to see more of Lewis in the run game, but maybe he's done. Kendricks...adios.

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