Cory's Corner: I've Seen Enough Of Joe Barry

The Packers defensive coordinator didn't put his guys in the best situations to succeed on Sunday — and he hasn't all season. 

The Packers have had problems stopping the run all year. It was the same story on Sunday as the Steelers ran through, around and over the Packers en route to a 23-19 win. 

The Packers  allowed 211 rushing yards to the Falcons, 211 to the Lions and 96 to a Raiders team that didn’t rush for over 76 yards in the first four games. Then there was 145 yards to the Broncos and 205 to the Steelers. 

It’s not just that the Packers are getting gashed at such an alarming rate, it’s how it’s being done. For some reason, Packers defensive coordinator Joe Barry is laying out the red carpet by only having two defensive linemen on the field at times. 

“You can’t give up almost 200 yards rushing in this league and expect to win football games,” said Packers coach Matt LaFleur.

I couldn’t agree more. If you cannot stop the run, it’s over. Especially when you’re facing a young quarterback, you have to make him beat you with long third down throws. But gift wrapping at least five yards to the opposition because of where the personnel is, doesn’t add up. 

The Packers made Jaylen Warren and Najee Harris look like All-Pros on Sunday. Warren, who averaged 25 yards a game through his first seven games, averaged 6.7 yards a carry. Harris was averaging 48 yards a game coming into the game with the Packers. He had a season-high 82 yards on the ground and averaged 5.1 per carry. 

I still think this defense can be capable of very good things. They have solid personnel at each level. Kenny Clark is a bona fide defensive linemen, Quay Walker is a dynamic inside linebacker and even Preston Smith — who had a sack on Sunday — can still get to the passer on the outside. The back end is still a magical mystery tour thanks to injuries and poor play, but Carrington Valentine can play in this league. Maybe not at an elite level, but at this point, I would settle for solid.

Another alarming note from the defense was that they missed a season-high 16 tackles on Sunday. That bested the previous high of 13 against the Lions and Broncos. That’s just a lack of effort coupled with poor technique that has been allowed to fester. 

There are so many granular things about this defense that are fundamentally flawed. Too many guys trying to make the hero play instead of wrapping up and when they do wrap up, it’s way too high and the player runs right through it. This unit hasn’t been placed in many spots to succeed either. When the play call comes on the field to inside linebacker De’Vondre Campbell, the only acceptable reaction has to be an eye roll. Then after the obvious happens and the Steelers gash the Packers for a big gain, how is that received on the field?

The Packers defense was supposed to be the shining hope this year. It is stocked with talent and the question in camp was whether this unit could keep teams under 20 points to give this young offense a chance. 

None of that matters if you’ve got a defensive coordinator that doesn’t evolve. The same mistakes continue to happen and unfortunately, I don’t think we’ve seen the best from this group because of the poor positions it continues to place itself in. Outside linebackers shouldn't be matched up against one of the game's best wide receivers in Davante Adams — which Smith was forced to do. Barry has proven that he won't take the next step and put his best guys in the best possible situations. 

This was supposed to be Barry’s prove-it season. I hate to say it, but I’ve seen enough. 

 

-------------------

Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn

9 points
 

Comments (105)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
NickPerry's picture

November 14, 2023 at 06:28 am

“You can’t give up almost 200 yards rushing in this league and expect to win football games,” said Packers coach Matt LaFleur."

I'm so sick and tired of "Yes Man" Matt LaFleur saying crap like this. EVERY week it's something. You can't give up 200 yards. You can't play 8 yards off on 3rd and 5. Aaron Jones has got to get more than 7 touches in a game. The list goes on and on and on.

LaFleur, Joe Barry was YOUR choice to keep. Even the Vikings Defense with a fraction of the 1st round talent is playing just about as well as the Packers statistically speaking. Brian Flores and others were THERE for the hiring, and YOU stuck with Joe Barry.

The Packers are hosting the 2025 NFL Draft. If LaFleur is kept I'd say there's a good possibility the Packers would hold the TOP pick in the 2025 draft. Even IF he's kept and Barry is gone in 2024, WHAT DC worth a damn would take a job with this team KNOWING they'll be gone in a year once Mark Murphy is finally relieved of his duties?

I don't believe a damn thing any of them say anymore. It's all BULLSHIT. Talk is cheap when you don't back it up with action. MLF and Barry are incapable of action.

19 points
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DoubleJ's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:36 am

"Aaron Jones has got to get more than 7 touches in a game."

Against the Steelers Jones was more of a liability than an asset. He had what one big play and the rest was either poor runs or dropping passes. I will agree that in general they have to get Jones the ball more.

4 points
5
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dblbogey's picture

November 14, 2023 at 08:32 am

I would like a DC who has a defense who gets up emotionally more than twice a year. These guys have no fire or passion, and that falls on Barry too.

9 points
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Johnf's picture

November 14, 2023 at 01:09 pm

They are both the same get rid of them and maybe we can see if love is any good or not

1 points
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CHEESEHEADDALLAS's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:13 am

NO shit shurlock how long did it take you to think of that one. Lets look at the facts who hired my defence stops no one and does not have the balls to can them?, Who hired that person? Who hired the gm that contunely make bad choice after choice and seems to be happy with they way things are? Who thinks he is the owner of the teame that is not? Time for the true owners to band together and in one voice Where not going to talarate this bull shit any more tell the board CLEAN HOUSE KNOW BEFORE IT GETS WORSE

-2 points
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Johnf's picture

November 14, 2023 at 01:16 pm

It mite by time to start boycotting the games until they start making some changes the broard of directors wont be happy losing money

-2 points
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bjkdad44's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:23 pm

Boycott a game then!!!

0 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

November 14, 2023 at 01:45 pm

People need to realize this is Matt LaFleur's defense. He hired, reviewed and stuck with Barry, because Barry is running Matt LaFleur's defense.

Your issue isn't Barry.

1 points
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HawkPacker's picture

November 14, 2023 at 02:58 pm

I see what you are trying to say but really it is LaFleur first followed by Barry.

1 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

November 14, 2023 at 05:10 pm

I'm saying Barry is an errand boy.

1 points
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packerbackerjim's picture

November 14, 2023 at 01:55 pm

It may be worth the pain of the Packers getting their ass kicked by lopsided scores these next several games if it results in needed change.

3 points
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bjkdad44's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:24 pm

🤞🏻

0 points
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Dragon5's picture

November 14, 2023 at 03:13 pm

Keep laying it on thick Nick...love the passion that is emerging from the majority of the fanbase to (finally) acknowledge we don't have the right leaders in place. As a fan, whether you saw changes were necessary early in the current regime or just coming to light now, the fanbase grows more frustrated and consequently unified with each game and following presser. We've been spoiled with 2 HoF QBs covering up poor decisions and resulting inadequacies for 3 decades, but the current situation has grown dire. Like Tomlin's creed goes, "the standard is the standard." To each his own, but my P.O.V. is the sarcastic "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" for all 3 of the stooges encompassing Murph, Gute, and MLF.

After the next 3 losses, defcon 2 will be up for grabs if we lose to the Giants in NY.

3 points
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GP1's picture

November 14, 2023 at 05:53 pm

yep

0 points
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coolhand's picture

November 14, 2023 at 06:33 am

Well, MLF did say he wanted "continuity" on defense. They were soft last year and couldn't stop the run. I guess he wanted the same this year and yet complains about it each week in his post game presser.

16 points
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GP1's picture

November 14, 2023 at 05:54 pm

in a nut shell

1 points
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Lphill's picture

November 14, 2023 at 06:39 am

should have been gone last season, he is the only man on earth who thinks 2 D lineman can stop the run.

13 points
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3
Savage57's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:04 am

It's low-hanging fruit to point at Joe Barry and say his schemes suck, and that's why the Packers can't stop the run.

If you pay attention to the off-ball play, the Packers BLOW at getting off blocks and that causes them to be late, attack at bad angles and use arms instead of bodies to stop opposing rushers.

It comes down to what you coach, how you coach and the people you employ to do the coaching. Add in a two-man front on short yardage and GtG situations and you have the '23 Packers D.

The upside of replacing Barry with a DC who eats raw meat is he'll probably fill his coaching staff with fellow carnivores.

12 points
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DoubleJ's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:38 am

I agree that it is an entire defensive coaching staff problem. Some of them were hold overs from previous regimes. Hopefully MLF will be smart and fire the entire defensive staff and let the new DC do the hiring.

6 points
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Packers2020's picture

November 14, 2023 at 08:48 am

If Murphy allows that to happen.....

1 points
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PeteK's picture

November 14, 2023 at 08:05 am

That's exactly what I have been looking at; LBs and backs are poor to react, tackle, or get off blks. However, in their defense, the line does not always hold up blockers. Even though Slaton is having a good year, we still need another big bodied DT to go along the 4 penetrating DEs who do not prevent blockers from getting to our LBs . Stopping the run requires some dirty work and not hero ball.

5 points
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Minniman's picture

November 14, 2023 at 01:18 pm

Somehow or other, yesterday, a Steelers-centric YouTuber's site came up as a suggestion in my feed; and as the thimbnail was Packers v Steelers, I watched it.

It was quite interesting to see the number of times the Packers put 2 spread D-linemen packages up against an obvious run play........ even the young guy posting was asking WTF are the Packers thinking......... "but hey, we'll take it!".

He also spoke about how well their ROOKIE RT (Broderick Jones) played against the likes of Clark etc - rather than a guard pulling, they sent the RT on that first TD run (against, yep, a 2 DL front).

To use the phrase - and definitely NOT be political here - it seems that there's more than one "Sleepy Joe" in circulation (and maybe this one is the real Sleepy).

3 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 07:07 am

J Ford has played how many snaps, in how many games?

This is sheer incompetence by the entire coaching staff.

1 points
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Since'61's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:08 am

There really isn't much more to add here. We've been reading and posting about the same issues with Barry's defense since he arrived in Green Bay. They are poor against the run and they miss too many tackles.

Unfortunately the same has been true about the Packers defense for a long time going all the way back to the 2011 season. The Packers defense has not been physically tough since the 2010 SB season even with so many defensive picks taken early in the draft. Capers was retained for too long. Pettine was ineffective and now Barry the worse yet.

The Packers are in Limbo until Murphy retires because no good HC or DC candidates will want to come to Green Bay until they know what the hierarchy will be and whether they will be working for the GM or for Murphy's replacement. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think that help is on the way until 2025. Thanks, Since '61

24 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:35 am

Are you saying “in Limbo at Lambeau”?

7 points
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Since'61's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:24 am

Cookie for TK! At least in Limbo at Lambeau. 1265 to be precise. Thanks, Since '61

3 points
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Green Bay Shareholder's picture

November 14, 2023 at 12:20 pm

And who was the leader of that defense - Charles Woodson, acquired through something called Free Agency if anyone knows what that is still. Imagine that - experienced, hard nosed veteran leadership acquired with a team loaded with talent already, how could they pull that off ? Do ya think it will ever happen again - on either side of the ball. I wonder why we have an ineffective offense - zero quality veteran presence that isn't on a pitch count or MASH squad. Do ya think that might make a QB transition just a tad bit easier. It really is mind boggling how a team can be mismanaged to this extent and no one held accountable. Jordan Love has nothing to work with on offense other than romper room level experience and the D has zero impact players. I can't imagine how frustrated Arod would be with this bunch on offense, say what you want but he knew when to get off the Clown Car.

0 points
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Since'61's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:47 pm

Yes there was Woodson, but also Nick Collins, Cullen Jenkins, Clay Matthews, Nick Barnett, B.J. Raji and Ryan Pickett. All solid physical players on defense.

The OL was much better with Clifton and Tauscher at OTs. The receiving corps was better and the coaching was better.

It will take a long time for the Packers to return to that type of team. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:13 am

Can we finally have a full-on hate fest dedicated to Joe Barry? Tarred and feathered is too good for him. Give him all the talent in the world and he'll find some way to ruin it. Not that it's easy, but he'll keep working at it ...

6 points
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Guam's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:44 am

It's not just Joe Barry SST. Our local Madison newspaper carried an article today about an interview with LaFleur and his comments on the run game defense. LaFleur went into excruciating detail about poor run fits, bad angles, missed tackles, etc. etc. (basically blaming the players). The one thing he didn't mention? Playing two D-linemen 80% of the time with NO in-game adjustment despite getting gashed for 200+ yards, much of it in the first half.

How can you be so clueless?

They knew Pittsburgh was going to be a run heavy team with a second year QB that intimidates no one. Yet they invite Pittsburgh to run with light boxes all game. Our coaching staff is losing these games, not the players. This is beyond incompetence. This is now active subversion of the players to protect the coach's jobs. The whole coaching staff needs to be fired - today!!!

7 points
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Hematite's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:28 am

"The whole coaching staff needs to be fired -today!!!"
I agree with you one hundred percent but only if Murphy is the first person given his walking papers.

3 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 07:26 am

Definitely it's more than just Joe Barry ruining what should be a good team. There's talent all over the roster. 2 down linemen is a mistake often cited, but there are many more.

While this defense has limited opponents to few enough points that there should be more than 3 wins, JB has had them underperforming all season, except the opener when there was no measuring stick because da Bares were that bad. Even they have improved, while GB has mostly regressed. The final game of the season might be yet another horror show, but lots can happen before then.

Absolute first coach to go is Butkus. Even if he's not replaced, it would be an improvement. Steno was good as O line coach, he's just not an NFL level OC. MLF might be ok in that capacity, but can NOT handle HC and play calling. I don't know how many coaches can be replaced all at once without making things worse, but there's nothing to risk by replacing the strength and conditioning staff. The TE coach never played TE and it shows. Vrable with the WRs is a disaster; what the hell has he been doing?

All of these are maybe a higher priority than replacing JB, not because he's any less terrible than he's always been.

Mr We Are Not Idiots has to at least have his silos taken away from him, along with being removed from football operations entirely. (Not sure if that's already happened?)

In Gutey I trust - that he's NOT a people person. Which means GM is not his thing. Even though he's been improving at making draft picks.

Tom Clements and Rich Bisaccia are the only 2 coaches who might be good that I'm aware of, and yet ST has been screwing up and some pretty basic things JL10 seems slow to learn; and I don't think he's a slow learner. The Steelers might have taught him to throw the ball away instead of taking a sack? When will he learn to stop trying to thread needles from a mile away? Making the easy layup has always been his achilles heel; fixing these 3 areas would make SUCH a difference!

1 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:16 am

For me the biggest mistake LaFleur made was first going with Joe Barry as DC. He had other options, but for whatever reason he went with Barry. Ok fine. But then he stuck with Barry. He should have gotten rid of him this offseason and went out and got a good DC that was available. There were options out there.

On the first and goal at the 4, they had 2 DL in, and an extra DB. Steelers walked in.
Later in a 3rd and 1, they again had 2 DL, and an extra DB. Steelers easily get the first down. We can probably see 10+ plays like this a game that short yardage they are in their Nickel defense.

Its not necessarily just about the personnel they have on the field. Its also how they are using them. A lot of these situations our Edge players (or Defensive Ends according to LaFleur), are spread way out wide leaving massive gaps. And then other times they have the front slanting, which ends up hurting more then helping.

To make matters worse for Barry, is that in 2 of the 3 200 yards rushing games, they were going up against 2 QB's that they absolutely should not have feared. Against Ridder and Pickett. They should have stacked the box and forced them to try and beat them in the passing game.

I was looking at it yesterday and I did post about it, but in 3 of the Packers losses they had taken a 4th quarter lead, only to have the defense give up the lead on the very next drive. And then the Lions game, they were down big time, brought it within 10 with basically the whole 4th quarter left, but the defense gave up an almost 9 minute drive and TD. Just killed them. So that is 4 games that the defense gave the opponent momentum in the 4th quarter. Not good at all.

Like good ole Kevin Greene once said. It is time.

15 points
15
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DoubleJ's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:41 am

Barry will play nickel or dime against a team in jumbo formation with the TEs replaced by OL.

3 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

November 14, 2023 at 08:12 am

And he has done that!

1 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

November 14, 2023 at 12:59 pm

Are those OL guys fast? 😉

2 points
2
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 07:31 am

RCP,

"To make matters worse for Barry, is that in 2 of the 3 200 yards rushing games, they were going up against 2 QB's that they absolutely should not have feared. Against Ridder and Pickett. They should have stacked the box and forced them to try and beat them in the passing game"

J Ford played how many snaps? This was preventable. Or at least JB could have TRIED.

1 points
1
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DoubleJ's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:34 am

"This was supposed to be Barry’s prove-it season."

Oh Barry has proven it alright. He's proven what we all have known since day 1 in that he is an inept defensive coordinator. At best he should be a LB coach but I think out of the league is a better.

5 points
5
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stockholder's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:37 am

Evolve?
They have had the same Defensive scheme since Raji was drafted.
And how many Dcs do we need to go through, for change?
High tackling means these guys are afraid of injuries.
Barry's got more than two pass rushers.
Yet it’s always the same o, same o.
From the drafts to the coaches. Weapons get neutralized.
The containment always fails.
The stars miss practice. The trench gives up yards.
I want change. And if it means people get canned. So be it.
The bull in GB started at the top.
Either change the scheme, or change the personal.

13 points
14
1
T7Steve's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:38 am

Not only does getting gashed on the run eat up the clock and keep the D on the field, it allows the passing game to become way more effective (as we've seen the few times we could run the ball). When the D is struggling to stop the run, they suddenly get gashed through the air, if the opposing team decides to try it. Turns ordinary QBs (if there's such a thing in the NFL) into MVP candidates. Also by the fourth quarter the D is so gassed they can't even get out of their own way.

2 points
2
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TKWorldWide's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:58 am

Yes! That whole thing about “the pass kills you much faster than the run” is nonsense. Crappy run D leads to favorable down and distances all game long. We’ve seen it for years.

6 points
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PeteK's picture

November 14, 2023 at 08:13 am

Pass does defeat faster, however poor run D is demoralizing and is a slow death leaving no time and energy to bounce back.

4 points
4
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TKWorldWide's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:53 am

My first thought was 16 missed tackles is terrible no matter how you line up. But then I thought if GB would scheme differently, they’d probably be in better position to make some of those tackles.

I cannot understand at all how JB hasn’t matched personnel. He plays nickel even when the opposition doesn’t have 3 wides? Has he EVER been asked WHY? I’d love to hear that answer.

GB under Gute is all about that RAS. I don’t think RAS measures tackling skill or getting off blocks. I have believed for years now that an average tackler at the college level will be a bad one in the NFL for two reasons: one, NFL players are, on the whole, much tougher to tackle than college players, and two, the CBA severely limits full contact practices. So essentially, if a guy is a bad tackler, he can hardly even work to improve on it. He’s got to be at least very good to start with. I’d also love to see “data” on how many guys IMPROVE their tackling from college to the NFL. I’d wager, not a whole heckuva lot.

I think GB needs both a schematic change as well as a culture change. I think both of those involve a change at DC.

13 points
13
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RCPackerFan's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:37 am

"My first thought was 16 missed tackles is terrible no matter how you line up. But then I thought if GB would scheme differently, they’d probably be in better position to make some of those tackles."

I agree TK. I knew there were a lot of missed tackles but didn't realize it was 16. But i do think a part of it is how they are being lined up. A number of big runs came when they had 2 DT's and 2 Edge players. An a lot of those came when the Edge players were spread out really wide creating a lot of room in the middle of the field. It isn't hard to double a DT and kick out the edge player creating a big gap.

Players need to play better, but at the same time the coaches have to put the players in the best position to succeed.

2 points
2
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Eldoublek's picture

November 15, 2023 at 02:00 am

I'm a firm believer that as a player you take on the culture your coach provides. Unfortunately, MLF provides a yoga instructor culture. Not that yoga is bad but man, we need to chew kneecaps not do child pose

0 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 07:36 am

TK,

there's another reason that an average tackler in College will never be able to compete in the NFL:

it's a much higher level of competition. Gotta be a standout in College, otherwise RAS isn't gonna mean squat at the NFL level. This is just too basic for a GM not to understand.

0 points
0
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Racingdad's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:54 am

Again. Joe barry would/ could/ should be the reason mlf gets fired Now they are at a point no good/great DC will want to come to gb knowing that if mlf is still HC he is probably on a very short leash Why come to gb when the whole staff might last more than a year??at this point I’d like to see mlf gone after this season and start fresh with someone new let him hire his own DC change the darn culture on defense. Use the players to their strengths not put sq pegs in rd holes Play an attacking style defense etc

8 points
8
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bjkdad44's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:34 pm

👍🏻

0 points
0
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 07:41 am

RD,

Mike Murphy's tutelage has meant that HC doesn't have control over the coaching staff as you suggest, and neither does GM.

No desirable candidate would willingly walk into that position, it's got to be fixed from the top down. If we're being truthful, the only reason this season wasn't called a rebuild is because the entire staff wasn't stripped bare. This will take longer than I was hoping ...

MM, Gutey, MLF, JB, Stenovitch, Butkus, Vrabel, TE coach, strength and conditioning staff: at a minimum ALL of them have to go before this will even be a team.

Tom Clements and Rich Bisaccia might be worth keeping?

1 points
1
0
mjbrogno's picture

November 14, 2023 at 08:00 am

Well, it’s quite obvious that LaFluer is not qualified to be a head coach in the NFL. Mr.Rodgers was the reason that the Packers won 13 games in each of LaFluer’s first three seasons. Hiring Barry as DC was a mistake, bringing him back after last season was a BIGGER mistake. Supposedly, the talent on defense is there, I disagree. The DC could be brain dead but, if the talent is there , certain plays will be made regardless of the scheme that is called.

12 points
12
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wollner27's picture

November 14, 2023 at 08:13 am

LaFleur saying we don't know ball because the outside linebackers are in essence Defensive Ends in the nickel is preposterous. Maybe he should be wondering why his "defensive ends" line up with such wide outside techniques leaving the two interior linemen to fend for themselves against 3 or 4 offensive linemen.

Would be interesting to know how many times they ran their "nickel" against 12 personnel which really opens up running lanes on the interior.

10 points
10
0
Cubbygold's picture

November 14, 2023 at 08:17 am

I'm pretty optimistic about this team.

They won that game in Pittsburgh if the refs don't blow that call. And they were the better team, on the road. That's all you can ask for at the end of the day as a fan, for your team to be able to consistently go out and be the better team. That will translate to wins overtime.

This young offense is going through growing pains like we expected. What we didn't expect was for 69 to miss the entire season, and for Aaron Jones to contribute so little. Without the few vets that we hoped to contribute, I'd say the season is going about as well as could be expected. But I think there's a lot to like in wicks, reed and Musgrave. And I think love is performing as well as you could ask given the circumstances and supporting cast.

And then lastly, this isn't a team that is expecting to win now and compete for a super bowl. So the fact that the defense is underperforming and will likely get Joe fired at the end of the year is just icing on the cake.

So I'm optimistic that the offense will be better next year. I'm optimistic that the defense is underperforming just enough to show that they have talent that isn't being used right. And I'm optimistic that when half the salary cap isn't on the bench or playing for another team that this group will elevate their play.

So yeah, fire Joe. But I see that as just another positive coming out of this season.

-2 points
3
5
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 07:45 am

I agree that there's talent all over this roster. My concern is, who on the coaching staff is developing them? How many players are being ruined? It certainly makes it harder to turn these players into a team in the future.

1 points
1
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CoachJV's picture

November 14, 2023 at 08:20 am

Shoulda let him go at the Bye

7 points
7
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T7Steve's picture

November 14, 2023 at 08:34 am

Bye-Bye.

I see where you're going here.

1 points
1
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 14, 2023 at 07:48 pm

The discussion was giving him until the Trade Deadline, to prove it ,or move it. LaFleur talking mish-mash, covering his tracks for his guy, running His preferred Defense. The Domino effect goes right up to the Realtor in charge. At this moment in Time, reflecting upon past Franchise History; it seems best to have a Renewal. Kleen Haus.

1 points
1
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pantz_bURp's picture

November 14, 2023 at 08:43 am

Not to overlook Thanksgiving which is my favorite. But, it is never too late for career changes. What if J-Barry is watching a Christmas classic and wants to be like Hermey, a dentist?

Now, I ain't going to be the first in line when Dr Barry invites anyone to the dentist chair...

But, can you imagine the smile on the poor fellar's face when Dr Barry pulls out the top and bottom incisors (except for 2 on the bottom and 2 on the top) and implants extra molars way towards the back? Too many gaps I say, too many gaps.

He be yelling: Nextttttttttt!

*Why oh why didn't #12 (I mean #8) take a liking to J-Barry as DC. If he did, Coach Barry would be in NY too. Talk about taking a BITE out of the Jet's defense.

0 points
5
5
jont's picture

November 14, 2023 at 08:48 am

Not to defend the most unpopular coach since Dan Devine-- many valid points above-- but I think it should be noted that the Packers' offense needs to get more 1st downs. They managed only 15 against Pittsburgh.

Their average is 17 per game this season. In last year's "terrible" season it was 19.6 1st downs per game. It was 22 in 2021 and 21 per game in 2020.

So this season we've got 5 or 6 drives per game that stall out at least a few plays early.

A few more 1st downs would shift field position, rest the defense, and give the opposing offense fewer opportunities-- "complementary football". This suggests changes in the offensive game plan could improve defensive stats.

The Packers have lost 4 games this season by a total of 11 points. A few 1st downs would have made a difference in the way some perceive this defense.

-2 points
2
4
DoubleJ's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:25 am

The problem with the "rest" or "field position" arguments is that the D still has issues even on the 1st drive of the game or half. Look at the first two drives on Sunday. The Steelers started from their 25 (average position) and 40 (good position). They had a total of four 3rd Downs from 26 plays (15% of plays). On the first drive they had 1 (8% of plays) and second drive they had 3 (21% of plays). Of those there were two 3rd and 3 and two 3rd and 1. Note that the D got 5 game minutes of rest while the O scored a TD on their 1st drive. Basically the O did what they needed to do to help the D. Only reason the game didn't get out of control is because the Steelers stopped running the ball for a couple drives.

-2 points
1
3
barutanseijin's picture

November 14, 2023 at 01:38 pm

If your defense is weak, it’s better to keep them off the field . Offensive ineptitude definitely affects the defense.

1 points
1
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:50 am

While the offense does need to keep improving, this is about the defense.

In the 3rd quarter the Packers offense had the ball for 5:52 and kicked a FG. The defense did good and forced them to punt after 2 minutes. Packers offense takes over and moves down and kicks a FG, again taking 4:06 off the clock. The very next drive the defense allows a 28 yard play, immediately putting them in FG range. Which they kick to take the lead right back. With the Packers first 2 drives of the 2nd half they had the ball for 9:58, and the defense still gave up points.

Against Denver in the 2nd half, the Packers were down 9-0. Packers start out with the ball and drive down for a FG. They took 4:36 off the clock. Denver responded with a 7 play 75 yard drive that resulted in a TD and took 4:07 off the clock. Packers responded with a TD drive and took 4:31 off the clock. Packers defense holds up to a 3 and out. And the Packers drove down for a TD. They had the ball for 6:19. The very next drive Denver drives down and kicks a FG.

There are more examples, but the problem isn't on the offense. its the defense. The defense has had rest and still gives up points.

2 points
2
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jont's picture

November 15, 2023 at 12:54 pm

Sensible comments as always, RC, and I agree. Of course, the defense needs to improve. We can all readily point to a drive or a stat or a series that shows their shortcomings.

My point was, I thought, an obvious one: if the D is regularly on the field longer and on shorter fields, they are in a tougher position and more likely to give up points. This is important, plainly, when the offense has trouble scoring.

Given that the D is statistically pretty average, it is clear that better offensive performance would mean better defensive results-- no, not a better defense, better results.

0 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 07:48 am

Jont,

absolutely!

1 points
1
0
ricky's picture

November 14, 2023 at 08:49 am

Tigers don't change their stripes. Everyone knew who Barry was after last year. That he managed to put together some decent game plans at the end of last season showed he knows what needs to be done. He just doesn't follow through for some reason. Why? Don't know, and frankly, at this point, don't care. At the same time, if and when a new DC is chosen, the team is going to have to make sure the scheme favored by the new DC will fit the personnel on the team. And, for goodness sake, be willing to pay the guy a decent salary, rather than penny pinching, and settling for mediocre results year after year.

4 points
4
0
NFLfan's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:07 am

Does anyone here voice complaints to 1265 Lombardi?

or, are the week-after-week-after week teeth-gnashing sessions confined to this small venue?

3 points
3
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pantz_bURp's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:28 am

I did. I called and lvm for Mr Murphy awhile back. His Asst actually called me back and said she will forward on the message and appreciated my opinion w/o the vinegar.

I was happy I called with knowing I was just sharing my opinion. I didn't expect my voice to be heard but appreciated her calling me back. I didn't think I would be passed to Mark anyways.

Peace and carrots,

Pantz-O-Mime

4 points
4
0
T7Steve's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:31 am

We try to voice them at Insiders Inbox and the weekly chats but don't get published if they're too negative (or true). In those guys defense, they work for the Packers and would like to keep their jobs, so I understand.

1 points
1
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Since'61's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:34 am

We're fans/stockholders here. Our voices/complaints are meaningless to 1265 assuming that they would be read at all.

I suggest that you take a shot at it and let us know how it works out. Thanks, Since '61

3 points
3
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Starrbrite's picture

November 15, 2023 at 07:36 pm

Meaningless—Exactly right ‘61

0 points
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pantz_bURp's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:34 am

Geez, another green n gold nugget I thought of. We have to figure out how much Coach Barry weighes. Armed with that info, Coach LaF in his presser says something like, "I got to figure a way to lose ___ pounds."

Brilliant!

Where there's a will, there's a weigh,

Yours

***Now, when this happens Coach LaF follows Coach Barry out the door...eerily similar to the scene with Renee and Tom in "Jerry Maguire". Now, when the smoke clears...a few of us posting will have adequate knowledge of the game and I'm a natural when it comes to teaching!!! Letz do this!

-3 points
2
5
vagem55's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:46 am

Per NFL.com 11/14/2023
Team scoring and team defense
Vikings
Points for 233
Points Against 209
Rush Yds 982 (13th)
Rush TD 7 (17th)
Pass Yd 2244 (23rd)
Pass TD 14 (22nd)

Packers
Points for 179
Points Against 182
Rush Yds 1197 (25th)
Rush TD 9 (21st)
Pass Yd 1688 (6th)
Pass TD 8 (2nd)

2 points
3
1
RCPackerFan's picture

November 14, 2023 at 09:53 am

I have seen (I can't remember the numbers) that since week 3 or 4, the Vikings have had one of the best defenses. It takes times for players to understand what they are being asked to do, and time for the coordinators to learn the players.

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 07:52 am

One of the best defenses you say? Gee, I wonder who their DC is? Could we have gotten him?

1 points
1
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CheesedDeadHead's picture

November 14, 2023 at 12:23 pm

Vikings have played 10 games, Packers have played 9.

Vikings defense has allowed 20.9 pts/game
Packers defense has allowed 20.2 pts/game

That's pretty much the same.

Let's look at the opposition's offense:

Vikings defense has played 10 games against offenses averaging 22.3 pts/game.
Packers defense has played 9 games against offenses averaging 20.8 pts per game.

So the Packers have had a much easier schedule, yet are basically giving up the same pts/game as the Vikings defense.

That's crap given the draft/$ Capital invested on the Packers defense.

Flores >>>>>>>>>>>>> Barry

2 points
3
1
Ferrari-Driver's picture

November 14, 2023 at 10:25 am

Apparently coaching can make a heck of a difference in how the team performs. I watched the Denver Broncos beat the Buffalo Bills on TV last night. I also watched a number of the games Denver played last year. The contrast between that team last year and this year is dramatic. When the Bronco's defense lined up it looked like they meant business and they played that way. It may be motivation, scheme, or a combination, but that team is playing like they want to win and expect to win.

Our head coach would be a good nominee for the nice fellow award, but who wants that award. We seem to lack passion and when our defense lines up and I saw it all too often Sunday, it looked as if they were inviting a run and Pittsburgh did run and ran all over them and through them all game long. It was hard for me and Packer fans to watch. We need changes in culture, performance, defensive coordinator and perhaps more. I don't believe there is a team in the league that has spent more draft capital on defensive players and we are not getting our monies worth!

8 points
8
0
CanPackFan's picture

November 14, 2023 at 10:41 am

I am soooo tired of the LaFleur soft guy approach! I would much prefer a real, tough football man running our team. Kind of like Dan Campbell.

3 points
3
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 14, 2023 at 10:43 am

"Apparently coaching can make a heck of a difference in how the team performs. I watched the Denver Broncos beat the Buffalo Bills on TV last night."

Apparently the Bills agree with you because they fired their OC Ken Dorsey this morning.

2 points
2
0
CanPackFan's picture

November 14, 2023 at 10:48 am

We are well past Barry's "before date"! The odor emitted from this lack of competence is appalling! And the only person that is nose blind to this odor is LaFleur.

And the same insanity is confirmed game after game after game by LaFleur.

Is LaFleur not the HC of this football team? Why does he whine, cry and complain about Barry and not do anything definitive to replace him? Loyalty or just sheer weakness? Either way, it's not what the way a "true" HC behaves. I am now in the camp that he is soft and just plain weak. Grow a pair Mr LaFleur!

0 points
1
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 07:56 am

MLF is not the true HC, just like Gutey is not the true GM. Mike Murphy as President screwed that all up.

1 points
1
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CanPackFan's picture

November 14, 2023 at 10:53 am

Duplicate post

0 points
0
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pantz_bURp's picture

November 14, 2023 at 12:13 pm

Coach LaF just needs to get a tat...

Yes, I cried at the end of Old Yeller, Rascal and then The Bears and I, but I am not the Green Bay Packer HC.

Just some randumb thoughts spewing out my cranium...

Now, go take a big cHoMp out of the day.

Party Pantz

-1 points
1
2
Meader99's picture

November 14, 2023 at 12:17 pm

Someone's gotta be fired. You can not continue to invest high end draft capital in the defense and field the same product. Either the scheme is wrong or the the players being drafted for the scheme are wrong. Bring in a guy that has a history of being able to run a defense. If he can't fix it then Gutey's gotta go for the failure to field a top 10 defense thats full of 1st round picks.

5 points
5
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 07:58 am

It all starts with Mike Murphy. Unfortunately it seems he's not going anywhere until 2025. He, Gutey, MLF, and JB all have to go. And many more "coaches."

0 points
0
0
Meader99's picture

November 14, 2023 at 12:21 pm

Here's who this defense has beaten. The Bears with Justin Fields. The Rams with Brett Rypien and the Saints with basically Jameis Winston. If Carr doesn't get hurt the Pack probably don't win that game. Seems if they could just play against QBs that can't throw the ball every game, they'd be undefeated.

0 points
1
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 07:59 am

Don't worry, JB would still find a way to lose even then. He's determined!

0 points
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KKB's picture

November 14, 2023 at 12:31 pm

Death of a coaching career!

Act 1. Hire your buddy Joe Barry, in spite of a proven history of failures.

Act 2. Take you outstanding OL coach - and promote him out of position, ruining what was a team strength for several years

Act 3. Contine to stick with your poor ass decisions, and keep making excuses, and empty promises to fix them.

Finale: Blindly stumble down the last fames of your career, unable to find answers, and still (in his own mind), thinking he was running the offense not AR12 during those good years.

Fans: we should now realize how good AR really was. He made McChucklebutt look good, then Hackett, and MLF.

-2 points
2
4
bottlefliper's picture

November 15, 2023 at 05:40 am

......AR made the other team look good when it counts, every time.
......AR made look an idiot like Rogan look smart compared to him.
......AR made Ivermetin look like a hell of a drug.

Chemtrailer was always strange, weak and dumb. Even with greta help he always lost when it counts beside that only single time. So there is a reason why he got only one ring and I did not start about his romantic (besides Dolphines) social life. But he may have no time left with all his fears from planes to science .

No wonder he hates Kelce, who is strong, smart and a great human being with way more success in football already

-3 points
0
3
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 08:01 am

You understand nothing, and are an embarrassment to the human race.

1 points
1
0
dark41's picture

November 14, 2023 at 12:39 pm

I'm so sick of the 3-4, which has rarely been successful in Green Bay.

Hire a DC who can run it, draft accordingly, and switch to 4-3. I believe that alone would make a big difference in stopping the run. I can't remember the last time the Packers took an edge rusher in the 1st round of the draft.

Every team in NFL knows that the Packers can't stop the run, which is why teams run against us more than any other team.

0 points
1
1
TKWorldWide's picture

November 14, 2023 at 01:05 pm

Aren’t Gary and Van Ness first round edge rushers?

5 points
5
0
T7Steve's picture

November 14, 2023 at 01:23 pm

I think he means defensive tackles. That would be Kenny Clark?

They seem to throw a lot of first round picks at the defense,

0 points
0
0
TKWorldWide's picture

November 14, 2023 at 01:42 pm

And Devonte Wyatt…?

3 points
3
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TKWorldWide's picture

November 14, 2023 at 01:48 pm

So, the 4 man line would be entirely first rounders: Gary and LVN at ends, Wyatt and Clark at tackles. Could that bunch get something done?

1 points
1
0
pantz_bURp's picture

November 14, 2023 at 01:59 pm

Maybe, if at first (rounders) you don't succeed, try and try again.

Just funnin, the Pack will be Back in 2025!

*I just may have to create a vintage costume of Vince Lombardi while I attend the Draft in Green Bay, WI!

Chop chop,

Form-fitten Pantz

1 points
2
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 08:03 am

If you put J Ford in at NT, it would be a sensible combination.

2 points
2
0
TKWorldWide's picture

November 17, 2023 at 07:31 am

Slaton could mix in there too.

0 points
0
0
canadapacker's picture

November 14, 2023 at 03:14 pm

I may be wrong - but I doubt it - It seems to me that this team has become very very soft. I mean it takes a long long time to get back onto the field after some injuries - It seems that a lot of guys get hurt and take several plays before they come back onto the field and that the play is very soft. I used to like Brian Urlacher's comments about how many loafs there were in a game. We have a lot of loafs - guys once beaten not trying to get back into the play - no hustle - and no hustle plays. One creates turnovers by hunting the ball carrier down from behind and knocking the ball out. Not on this team. It starts at the top - I blame it all on Lafleur. We have regressed on Special teams. The Oline has regressed with all the pre- snap and other penalties - and even though there are some statistical anomalies with the Defense - they still play too soft and too off coverage and miss too many tackles ( another sign of the lack of toughness). Time to clear out both the HC and DC. This team does have talent but needs the input of toughness and game - We need to get back to the days on Nitschke, Reggie White , Kampman , KGB - This team is soft soft soft - and it doesnt matter about the talent if one plays SOFT.

2 points
4
2
Hitnhope23's picture

November 14, 2023 at 04:25 pm

U can blame Bakhtiari for the loafing, Let's see, I don't have to practice, play in one game, still be adored by the Packer faithful, and still make my millions. In consecutive years, mind you! He's laughing all the way to the bank.

-1 points
3
4
bottlefliper's picture

November 15, 2023 at 05:44 am

....Urlacher....haha......maybe the only one in Sports who can match AR crazieness. Ulacher who never won everything. His brother is a professionell criminal and Urlacher himself does not like America but murderers like Rittenhouse. Oh yeahhh, no wonder he likes AR .
When there were so much loafs in the game its even more a shame that Ulracher could not do anything in his carrer. So he got beat by loafs eyery single down he played I guess. 2957687 to nothing for the loafs.

And KGB, who was a one trick money, soft like hell on the field and a maniac off it. They need to save his kids and his wife from him. Pretty low people, if you want to call them that word.....

-4 points
0
4
canadapacker's picture

November 15, 2023 at 10:21 am

Keep it about the game buddy - a lot of people fail after they are out of the sport. But for awhile he was a team leader - I hate da Bears but I have to admit that he was a terror on the field and against #4. """Urlacher won the NFL Defensive Player of the Year after playing for a defensive team that allowed the fewest points per game, and created the most turnovers in the National Football Conference. Urlacher himself recorded at least 10 tackles in six consecutive games,"""

3 points
3
0
crayzpackfan's picture

November 14, 2023 at 03:51 pm

JB reminds me of a 3rd grader mashing the buttons while playing Madden and continually calling the same defensive play for everything. X X X X X X O O O O O O !!!

2 points
3
1
jhtobias's picture

November 14, 2023 at 04:24 pm

While I 100 percent agree with this and the 100's of other articles on this site and elsewhere that have been writter about Joe Berry in all due respect it is getting old and quite lazy to keep writing about this subject. He is not going anywhere and quite frankley i would not be shocked if he gets a new contract . So please quit your whinning and show action if you want change

You want action then grow a pair and hit murphy where it hurts. Sell your tickets if you have them at lambeau to opposing fans embaras murphy and demand this will continue until berry and his staff are gone.

-2 points
0
2
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 16, 2023 at 08:07 am

Murphy isn't whinning

GB isn't winning with MM in place

0 points
0
0
peterbougie's picture

November 15, 2023 at 01:57 pm

Five words -- "joe "Let 'em go" Barry.

1 points
1
0
mjbrogno's picture

November 24, 2023 at 09:11 am

What I enjoyed most about the victory yesterday was the heart displayed by the hungry young players on the field. They might not have the so called talent level desired by NFL scouts, but what do have is the willingness to play hard, GO PACK GO!!!

0 points
0
0