Bart Starr robbed in Gannett's Top 100 Packers
Has everyone gone crazy?
By PackerAaron
So, while I was in Green Bay for training camp, Corey and I had Pete Dougherty, Rob Demovsky and Wes Hodkiewicz over for drinks.
While we were talking about the history of CHTV and the Packers beat, Pete told us about the project he was working on, the Top 100 Players In Packers History, which dropped earlier this morning.
Bart Starr isn't in the Top 10. Needless to say, Corey and I lost it.
While in the midst of our back and forth, I busted out my microphone and recorded our drunken meandering argument.
You can listen on our Patreon page, or click through below.
So, needless to say, @coreybehnke and I took umbrage with where Bart Starr came in on the @PGPackersNews list of Top 100 Players In Packers History. So I busted out my mic and recorded our argument with @PeteDougherty, @RobDemovsky and @WesHod:https://t.co/LQbIkBjRWi
— Aaron Nagler (@AaronNagler) August 11, 2019
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
__________________________
Comments (29)
Bearmeat
August 11, 2019 at 09:09 am
Bart Starr not being in the top 5 Packers of all time is a laugh. As is almost every single one of these "lists" of top players between eras.
PackfanNY
August 11, 2019 at 09:21 am
The QB of one of the greatest dynasties of All Time, who played and was the right hand of the greatest coach of All Time not in the Top 5 of his own team? Oh, boy either the list is created by someone who thinks everything happened after they were born or someone is trying to generate clicks and reaction.
Qoojo
August 11, 2019 at 09:40 am
These meaningless top # lists are just media tools to get more discussion and clicks. The pro football team ranking lists I especially hate, like pro football needs the college team ranking system.
TommyG
August 11, 2019 at 12:05 pm
Too right! I don’t know what’s worse: the pay wall to listen to a drunken sound bite or the pay wall to read the nonsense player ranking.
blacke00
August 11, 2019 at 09:42 am
First of all consider the source!
A Gannet publication...need I say more. Since I don't have access to the story, I'll bitch about it based on Aaron's comments.
The reason for most of these stories to get a rise out of the reader. If the writer really believes what he or she is writing, they are typical of our current social climate clueless as to history and perspective....shameful.
Coldworld
August 11, 2019 at 11:25 am
Struck me deliberate faux controversy for click bait. If true, very poor taste so soon after his passing.
If not, we’ll i don’t need to see a piece that makes that kind of error or reporters who come up with it.
Congratulations guys, think that’s what I needed to kill off the occasional temptation to view your work. Was once an avid reader.
jeremyjjbrown
August 11, 2019 at 09:49 am
" Bart Starr isn't in the Top 10."
LOL
That's what we get from media conglomerate Gannett. A "local" news source with employees who don't actually understand Wisconsin.
Since'61
August 11, 2019 at 11:57 am
Any list of Packer players that does not include Bart Starr in the Top 10 is not a legitimate list and not worth consideration or discussion.
My top 10 Packer players would include:
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Brett Favre
3. Ray Nitschke
4. Bart Starr
5. Jim Taylor
6. Herb Adderly
7. Paul Hornung
8. Forrest Gregg
9. Willie Davis
10. Don Hutson
Top ten honorable mention would include Dave Robinson
and Reggie White.
There is just no excuse for not including Bart Starr among the Top 10 Packer Players regardless of how they are ranked. Thanks, Since ‘61
Qoojo
August 11, 2019 at 11:56 am
Offensive guys get all the glory lol
Reggie White > Favre :)
But that's how these list things go. Can argue almost every inclusion and omission, especially with the packers long history.
Since'61
August 11, 2019 at 12:01 pm
Qoojo you’re correct of course. I could make a case for Reggie. I moved him down because he only played 6 seasons in Green Bay while all of my other Top 10 had 10 or more seasons with the Packers. Thanks, Since ‘61
oceanstrength
August 11, 2019 at 03:49 pm
Reggie tied for tenth is just as ridiculous as ommitting Starr from top ten.
Starr
Favre
White
Rodgers
Hutson
Horning
Taylor
Nitchke
Gregg
Davis
JerseyAl
August 11, 2019 at 07:32 pm
I had the same initial reaction of "where's Reggie?" but really, which of those 10 players are you taking out?
Since'61
August 11, 2019 at 08:24 pm
Exactly Al, it’s really hard to get down to top 10 Packer players. Oceanstrength took out Adderley for Reggie and that’s fine. As I posted I factored in length of time with the Packers and my top 10 played all or almost all of their 10+ year careers with the Packers. I’m not knocking Reggie but when you’re limited to ten you need some criteria for selection.
I could have put Dave Robinson in and taken someone else out. Does it matter, they are all HOF players. We have so many players to be proud of that I doubt that any of us would name the same top 10. Thanks, Since ‘61
Leatherhead
August 11, 2019 at 08:21 pm
Since 61, I've seen all these guys play except Hutson, who of course has to be on the list.
Bart, Nitschke, Willie Davis, Rodgers, Favre, Adderly, Wood, Woodson, Reggie . Plus Hutson.
And that's leaving some really, really good football players off. Like HOF players. How many teams have HOFers that can't crack their Top 10 list?
Since'61
August 11, 2019 at 08:38 pm
Exactly Old School, I’ve seen them all play except Hutson. It’s really hard to get down to the top 10 Packer players. You could even make a case for Jerry Kramer and/or Willie Wood to be in the Top 10. There aren’t any bad choices.
Plenty of HOFers to choose from. Thanks, Since ‘61
jannesbjornson
August 12, 2019 at 11:10 pm
Remember how many game changing plays Willie Wood made and he stuck people cold in their tracks.
Swisch
August 11, 2019 at 12:51 pm
Packers fans can watch Bart Starr at his pinnacle right now on ESPN2 in an airing of the 1967 Ice Bowl with player commentary.
The first drive highlighted some of Starr's pinpoint passing, illustrating his skills.
Still time to catch (or DVD) the dramatic last drive which was the climax of the Lombardi Era, and demonstrates Starr's leadership under extreme adversity.
This was where a team goes beyond talent into inspiring teamwork when all seems broken and lost.
It is the glory of the Lombardi Packers encapsulated in a single drive -- with the whole of the team being greater than the sum of its parts, and the human spirit counting for even more than great athletics.
I was only age 5 on that day; living in Houston where my Dad had been transferred from Milwaukee; and oblivious to pro football.
Nowadays, however, I can enjoy this game as perhaps the ultimate experience of what we cherish as fans of the Green Bay Packers.
jeremyjjbrown
August 11, 2019 at 01:47 pm
Right on.
The Ice Bowl and SB1 are on YouTube as well. They are obligitory viewing for anyone who wants to be considered a serious Packer fan.
Leatherhead
August 11, 2019 at 08:26 pm
There are some excellent written accounts of the Ice Bowl. David Maraniss , of course, tells it well with footnote documentation so you can see a variety of other accountings of this epic game.
Lombardi's team on Lambeau field for the last time, brutal conditions, a team that had a lot of guys past their peak......that team willed that ball into the end zone on the final drive. A tremendous story. If they could ever make a movie worthy of that drama...…...
ThxJackVainisi
August 11, 2019 at 12:55 pm
Writing/posting controversy as click bait isn’t new (and certainly not restricted to Gannett properties) and not having Starr in the top 10 belongs in that category.
Years ago I saw an article on the Cold Hard Football Facts site arguing that Starr was the best QB in NFL history based upon his play in postseason games. The article argued that he was the best postseason passer in NFL history, evidenced by his record 104.8 playoff passer rating and 1.41 percent interception rate.
If you evaluate Bart solely on physical attributes, he wouldn’t be in the top 10 Packers. And he was surrounded by HOF talent and had the benefit of the best HC in NFL history. But along with many other great attributes, Starr was incredibly mentally tough. He stood up to Lombardi. He called the plays; he was Lombardi on the field. He was the one who called those long bombs on third and short. I’m not sure how other QBs – even the great ones - would have been able to cope with Lombardi’s domineering personality. The bigger the game, the more Starr protected the football. The bigger the game the more clutch he was. The winning drive of the Ice Bowl was a great example of his leadership. In addition to the “ball-busting cold”, he didn’t have all of his weapons for that game – it was the end of the Lombardi era. With everything at stake, he led them down the field. And in those conditions, didn’t fumble and didn’t throw an incompletion, let alone an INT.
Saying Starr was the best QB of all time can be reasonably viewed as a stretch. Omitting him from a list of top 10 Packers is a bigger one.
Qoojo
August 11, 2019 at 07:44 pm
It might be a stretch, but if you view his playoff stats, it's hard to take another QB in the playoffs. He was just a quiet nice guy, and is underrated.
Swisch
August 11, 2019 at 02:44 pm
Great stuff, ThxJackVainisi.
It's also worth remembering that no QB in the history of the NFL since at least WWII has equaled Starr in leading his team to 5 championships in 7 years, and 3 in a row.
With so many new players and coaches this season for the Packers in 2019, it's essential for them to learn the hugeness of the little things, and the necessity of teamwork to go from being good to being great!
It's about much more than systems and schemes, superstars and super-stats, it's about guys learning to work together to achieve a super synergy that achieves team triumph.
Along the way is formed a camaraderie that is perhaps the most satisfying and gratifying of all for a lifetime.
In addition to developing himself into a superior passer -- and NFL MVP in 1966 -- Bart Starr is the epitome of all these attributes for excellence.
To evaluate Starr down to the smallest details of craftsmanship and leadership and integrity at QB is to put him in at least serious discussion as the greatest at the position for all time.
No Horn Blowers Here
August 11, 2019 at 01:50 pm
I still have surreal dreams of Bart, riding his Evinrude back and forth on Lambeau Field before the game. He knew every inch of the field, who is opponent was, and what they ate for breakfast. Bart was so much more than a football player or quarterback. He was able to use his brain to win !
Swisch
August 11, 2019 at 03:06 pm
Wonderful insight, No Horn Blowers Here, but it seems Starr also made himself into a top passer, with an MVP in 1966.
Yet it was indeed the little things that put him over the top for real consideration as the best QB of all time.
As a big fan of Aaron Rodgers, I'm hoping he is willing to make the self sacrifices of discipline and humility to lead the Packers to their fullest potential -- and to even challenge Starr as the greatest QB ever.
In just watching the replay of the 1967 Ice Bowl and the glorious last drive, Starr said that after a downfield completion to Boyd Dowler, the Cowboys started to take away the routes of the wide receivers.
So Starr gladly took the short passes to his running backs -- not Jimmy Taylor and Paul Hornung, but Donny Anderson and Chuck Mercein -- to lead the Packers down the field into famed history.
Whatever gets the Packers over the goal line is the measuring chain for Aaron's possible elevation into a grouping of the very best QBs.
Though the championships can't be guaranteed, the personal fulfillment of leading a team to the height of its potential is almost certain to satisfy throughout the years.
LeotisHarris
August 11, 2019 at 04:03 pm
A lot of people are saying Dougherty is working with a prolific CHTV poster and seer to predict the top 100 Packers of the next 100 years. Insiders report Tim Boyle is a lock at number 3.
Wilment
August 11, 2019 at 04:15 pm
Until such time as more championships are won, there is no greater Packer than Bart Starr. None. A champion, humble, a great citizen and the best representative this great team could ever ask for. I love Aaron, Brett, Ray, Donald Driver, LeRoy Butler, and all the rest, but nobody goes before Bart. GOPACKGO!!
Leatherhead
August 11, 2019 at 06:20 pm
Not fast or athletic or rifle-armed, all he was good at was leading men to victory.
Point-Packer
August 11, 2019 at 10:01 pm
Jordy above Jennings?
Rodgers above Favre?
Mojo
August 12, 2019 at 12:03 am
Not to knock R Wolf, I'm sure he had absorbed a good deal of GB history in his time there, but was there any doubt about who was going to vote for the the GB GOAT?
The number one choice on the list was already decided before they began.
As far as Bart, it's hard to believe the leader of one of the most successful eras in NFL history couldn't crack the top ten of his own team.