A Defense Of Aaron Rodgers
Aaron Rodgers is taking some unwarranted criticism for his play against the New York Jets.
By PackerAaron
I had an interesting back and forth with a Twitter follower last night that I wanted to expand on a little bit. The subject was the Packers struggling offense and Aaron Rodgers place in it.
The exchange:
Follower: After watching the NYJ game again...I'm going to say it: Aaron Rodgers is the matter with the Packer offense.
Me: Partly, but he played better than people are giving him credit for vs NYJ
Follower: There's a different definition of open vs the Jets. He didn't get that. And there were plays when he was just plain scared
I'm sorry, but I don't buy that last part. At. All.
Being at the game really told you a different story than watching the television broadcast. Rodgers did have two plays that I saw live where he had an open option that he didn't see. One was Driver on a post in the first quarter and another was Jennings on a "go" in the second. But for the most part Rodgers managed the game, played mistake free football and hit enough big-time throws to win the game. Everyone laments missed opportunities but its funny how no mention is given to the throw to Jennings that set up the first field goal. Or the throw to Jordy Nelson that basically sealed the game. The throw to Nelson actually reminded me of Rodgers' two huge third down throws last year vs. Dallas where he stuck in two lasers to Jennings and Donald Lee on consecutive third downs. That throw to Nelson is a big-boy throw. Rodgers definitely did not look "plain scared".
I understand the frustration of watching Rodgers start 1-6 on the afternoon, not to mention the offense going 0 for 7 on third downs in the first half. After the first third down of the game though, where Rodgers tried to rocket a ball over the middle to a double-covered Donald Driver, Rodgers did an excellent job of not forcing the ball into places he had no business throwing it. A big part of playing quarterback is taking care of the football. Rodgers has struggled in this area a bit to start the season and if ever there was a team that could have made his life miserable in this regard it was the Jets. But Rodgers was having none of it Sunday. That's veteran play at the games most important position. Just because he didn't throw for 300 yards and a bunch of touchdowns doesn't mean he wasn't doing anything right. Look at that game again - the turnovers WERE the game. And Rodgers was a big reason the Packers came out ahead in that category.
Yes, there were still times when I would have liked to see him be a bit more decisive in the pocket especially on the first sack. But for the most part I saw a veteran quarterback go into a Super Bowl contenders house against the best defense in the NFL and play well enough to win. How many times did we watch Brett Favre fall apart in similar situations?
The offense, including Rodgers, has a lot to work on. But Rodgers played a much better game than people are giving him credit for in New York.
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Comments (71)
November 04, 2010 at 10:25 am
Rodgers footwork (setting his stance) and patience in a well established pocket was light-years ahead of the Washington and Miami games. He was much, much calmer by comparison.
Had this 'follower' made the 'played scared' comment following those games, I may have partially agreed (he un-necessarily left an established pocket or tried to unnecessarily move the pocket in those games.)
Considering the conditions (wind), the level of CB competition and the number of looks he had to prepare for following a Jets bye-week, I thought he looked poised.
November 04, 2010 at 11:45 am
COMPLETELY agree.
It's the happy feet I've been talking about over and over and over again. He's not showing it anymore.
However, he's not playing at an elite level he's SUPPOSED to.
Rodgers is the kind of quarterback that will almost never cost you a game. He will never be a careless gunslinger. He has never thrown more than 2 picks in a game. But he's not winning games right now. He did it last year, he did it in 08, but the D let him down.
He's been too innacurate. Sometimes he's able to thread the needle like in the Quarless TD against the queens, and that Jordy pass for a 1st down. But more often than not, he's overthrowing receivers.
His deep ball was one of the best in the league last year, maybe only behind Rivers. This season, he's been borderline awful at it. And it's not that he hasn't had time, because there were enough opportunities for him. And he has connected, twice with Jennings (PHI and MIA TDs) and that Jones drop. But his long passes have been iffy...
November 04, 2010 at 02:18 pm
I think the issue with the deep ball is partially the number of opportunities that he is getting - opposing defenses are running zone coverage to prevent the beautiful deep ball the Rodgers throws. It also seems like he has trouble hitting the first couple deep throws he attempts...like it takes him a "practice" attempt or two game situations to get the deep ball accuracy right. And this has been the problem because he has only been getting maybe 5 single coverage looks in the whole game.
November 04, 2010 at 03:19 pm
P. Manning has been known to practice with his receivers hours prior to the game. Did you notice any of this at the game? You think it might help?
November 04, 2010 at 10:27 am
I tweeted it last week, but it bears repeating here; the way you described Rodgers' performance suggests he is now the dreaded/boring "game managing QB". You know, the one that doesn't kill his team, makes a few throws and doesn't turn the ball over. Not sure our defense or special teams can be consistent enough to support that type of QB.
November 04, 2010 at 10:30 am
Agreed - even with a healthy offense/defense he should never be considered a "Game Manager". He has already set the bar too high for that.
PackerAaron
November 04, 2010 at 10:49 am
He will also not be facing the best defense in the NFL every week...
November 04, 2010 at 10:54 am
Well everyone seems to believe in the NFL today that a good offense beats a good defense. Peyton Manning doesn't manage the game against the Jets.
Let's face it. We don't have a top 5 D, and we don't have a top 5 run game, so the pass game needs to carry this team.
November 04, 2010 at 10:28 am
A win is a win is a win, but nobody around Packer Nation thinks Aaron Rodgers is or should be a "game manager". Great win by all in NY and he did have some throws to set up the FG and the Jordy connection was clutch, but Rodgers needs to play like the NFL MVP for the rest of the season for the Packers to go anywhere deep.
They have played the easier part of their schedule so far, and things will be a little tougher this second half as opposed to last season. Aaron Rodgers needs to be better (not equal to) Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, or even someone like Eli Manning. All these quarterbacks can be game managers because they have strong running games to back it up.
Unfortunately for the Packers, this season is now on AR shoulders...time to step up, or we will be watching in February again.
November 04, 2010 at 10:36 am
Every quarterback has to be a game manager! What you want Rodgers to go out there and just chuck the ball around? We did play the Jets defense, its not like he had people open all day long, come on people
November 04, 2010 at 10:36 am
The nice part is, Rodgers, WR's, TE's, RB's, Coach and entire offense have time to get in sync and develop a rhythm. Ask Kurt Warner or Eli Manning how important it is to get hot at the right time while your team gets healthy. They sure didn't look it during the regular season, but it led to Super Bowl appearances for both and a win for one.
That being said, Brady is currently doing the same thing in New England. No eye-popping numbers, two rookies starting at TE, a couple of no name RB's and short dink-n-dunk passing game. Brady's playing the 'game manager' role right now but his team is stepping up. Belicheck is calling a hell of a game (consistant, great rhythm).
November 04, 2010 at 10:41 am
Brady has ALWAYS been a game manager in my mind. In fact I think his play is slightly overrated because his numbers have never been great (cept when Moss showed up).
November 04, 2010 at 10:44 am
I don't disagree, but the point stands. He can play a similar style and take this team deep. In my opinion, McCarthy and Rodgers are trying to frequently take what isn't there, the deep-intermediate to deep throw. Rodgers can take the high-percentage throw and move the chains. Too many drives stalled by chucking to a deep route in the progression that simply isn't there.
He showed he can light a playoff caliber defese up (Bears), and there's no reason to believe he can't do the same on a stretch run when it matters.
November 04, 2010 at 10:47 am
I agree. I joked Sunday that the quick slant route was replaced in the playbook by John Kuhn Toss left...GRR
November 04, 2010 at 10:41 am
Also what happenes if James Jones catches that pass? There would be no talk about Rodgers.... Everyone has to step up
November 04, 2010 at 10:49 am
I have been critical of Rodgers this season, and that was a great throw. Even so, if he connects that to say that no one would be talking about it would be wrong. If that one pass would have made Rodgers day, then nobody would be talking about him anyway.
I think he played better this week than the last 3 or 4 weeks, but he still did not play up to the standard he set with his last two seasons. Windy day, tough D, I understand all that.
November 04, 2010 at 11:49 am
Thing is, that was the only GREAT throw in the entire game. The Nelson one was very good, but GREAT throw, that was the only one.
PackerAaron
November 04, 2010 at 11:54 am
You're mad. That Nelson throw was unreal.
November 04, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Different opinion on what's unreal... Even so, for the argument, 2 great throws in a game, for an elite QB, kinda scarce, even considering that it's the Jets D.
PackerAaron
November 04, 2010 at 12:26 pm
Ahhh, but how many throws did he NOT make, pull it down, NOT kill the team by trying to squeeze one in? Difference in the game on Sunday. There are games where you can get away with that. Sunday, Rodgers knew he could not afford to. That's a smart, veteran quarterback, one that I am very glad is running the Packers offense.
November 04, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Like I said in my earlier post. Rodgers doesn't cost you games. But he's not winning games either. And he's more than capable of doing so.
November 04, 2010 at 12:33 pm
BTW, one could make a serious case that when you convert 2-10 on third downs (counted only pass plays), you ARE killing your team's chances of winning...
PackerAaron
November 04, 2010 at 12:36 pm
And of course, the quarterback is the only player playing offense on third down...
November 04, 2010 at 12:41 pm
Yeah, I said that...
There's no context with 2-10 Aaron. The line held it's own. Yes, the receivers dropped balls. 4 of them.
I don't remember exactly which down were every one of them, and there was a Driver slip on a 3rd down (where Rodgers forced the ball on double coverage), but, anyway you look at it, 2-10 is bad. And look at the game logs. Most of the time, 3rd and manageable.
Now look at last year. The Packers were 2nd in the league in drops. The OL was awful for the early part of the season. Yet, Rodgers was RIDICULOUS on third downs.
PackerAaron
November 04, 2010 at 01:04 pm
The receivers didn't just drop balls. They weren't open. And yes, Rodgers was insane on third down last year. As any reader of FO will tell you, you have to expect a regression back to the middle. No human being could sustain that level of performance. Its just not possible.
Again, if you've read me throughout the year, and I know you have, I have been FAR from a Rodgers apologist. In fact, I got ripped to holy hell for calling him out after the Eagles game and for saying he had regressed a few weeks ago. But he played a good game on Sunday and made the most of what he got from both the defense and his receivers.
November 04, 2010 at 11:05 am
So Aaron Rodgers needs to play like Peyton Manning the rest of the season or the Packers have no shot?
I write this because:
A. This year's MVP should just be handed back to Manning...the guy does more with less than anyone in the league
B. Rodgers has so much more talent around him than Manning does right now...he doesn't have to do everything.
C. I don't care if a QB throws for 180 a game or 400...there is no difference between a Tom Brady Superbowl Win or a Ben Roethlisberger Superbowl Win.
Gold shines no matter how you wear it!
I just want a championship in Titeltown.
Go Pack Go!
November 04, 2010 at 11:08 am
Rodgers has so much more talent around him than Peyton Manning? Debatable.
November 04, 2010 at 11:26 am
Debatable, yes...everything is....
The Colts WR's are a mashup of whomever they can find and insert into the line-up....His favorite target Clark just went down...
and who the hell is Mike Hart?
One thing that isn't debatable is Peyton Manning is playing on a much higher level than Aaron Rodgers (or any QB for that matter).
Go Pack!
November 04, 2010 at 11:59 am
Because Manning's line runs circles around Rodgers'.
oh - and he plays most of his games in a cimate controlled dome.
oh - and his team plays on turf.
oh - and he's got like 3 X as many starts as Rodgers has.
oh - and wayne is better than any receiver on the Packers.
November 04, 2010 at 12:03 pm
"Manning's line runs circles around Rodgers....."
Packers line is magnitudes better than Manning's line. Two of the players from last years playoff line with the Colts were cut.
Manning has had one of the bottom 5 lines in the NFL for the better part of 5 years. Credit the shotgun, no huddle for hiding it.
November 04, 2010 at 12:37 pm
@RickyBobby...your comment makes me realize that you really aren't paying close enough attention.
I'm sure if you actually looked at the performances of both teams this year you'd see that all your statements are false.
Colts are very banged up too...
And Reggie Wayne is a shadow of his former self...
Greg Jennings is completely on par with Reggie Wayne.
Stop being such a homer.
November 04, 2010 at 10:31 am
Using the word "scared" in any reference to Rodgers,simply induces the word "idiot" toward the user.
November 04, 2010 at 10:36 am
Scared as in literally yes, but if they are referring to the fact that he is "hesitant" or "easily flushed" from the pocket then there are times this has been the case in his career so far. I don't know in what context this word was used but I think everyone knows that a 3rd year NFL starting QB is not scared in a literal sense.
One thing I cannot stand is people who defend each player on their team no matter what. Someone says something bad about your beloved QB so you instantly call them an "idiot".
November 04, 2010 at 12:36 pm
Rodgers against the Redskins and Dolphins = SCARED.
Rodgers against MIN and NYJ = POISED but innacurate.
November 04, 2010 at 10:32 am
I am glad someone is realizing this. We did win the game right? No turnovers right? Rodgers did what he needed to do to win the game, against a scary defense. Calling rodgers scared is obsured, how many time has he been hit hard taken the hit and still finish the throw. Out offense will be fine.
November 04, 2010 at 10:38 am
To some, nothing Rodgers does will ever be good enough. Usually those fans have an old, worn out, green and gold jersey with a faded and peeling #4 on under their clothes. I'm thinking "Mr. Follower" may be one of those people.
November 04, 2010 at 10:41 am
When you read the context of what he's saying above it doesn't appear to be the case at all.
I completely agree that there were games this year (especially Washington and Miami) where he had happy feet and frequently left a pocket and/or failed to step into the pocket.
That being said, I don't agree it was this game (Jet's) in which he did it.
November 04, 2010 at 10:42 am
I agree 100% with this comment. Like I said before, Jones doesnt drop that PERFECT pass, no talk about Rodgers today
November 04, 2010 at 10:43 am
Aaron Rodgers did an outstanding job handling the football on sunday. He did have some plays where he threw a deep ball and it seemed like the ball hit the recievers hands a fell to the ground
November 04, 2010 at 10:50 am
I never defend any player no matter what,as I get ripped for not doing it more often than not.
If the word scared is to be used toward a QB in any fashion of context,then do so with those who do deserve the usage of it;Campbell,Garraud,Young,Cutler etc,the guys who kill you by doing stupid things from being scared then point fingers elsewhere.Rodgers isn't scared but smart and will take the blame when those think he should be more riskier than he already is and shows with success at the right time.
November 04, 2010 at 11:01 am
I think A-rod took advice from Trent Dilford:
- do not turn the ball over
- set your defense up with good field position
- eat up enough of the clock on offense to keep your defense fresh
Bottom line, we are a defensive team, therefore do not lose the game on offense. A conservative offense feeding an outstanding defense where are play makers are will win games.
An aggressive and gambling offense puts our defense in bad situations that result in a lose half the time when your aggressiveness on offense results in turnovers, bad field position, and time of possession.
I said this last year when we where 4-4, field position and time of possession wins games, no different this year.
November 04, 2010 at 11:04 am
I agree with the fact that controlling clock and defense is still the #1 way to win in this league. 5 of the last 10 SB champs have been top 7 running games in the league. Of the other 5, 3 have had the top scoring defense in the NFL.
That being said, Green Bay is not a defensive team despite their shutout Sunday.
November 04, 2010 at 11:31 am
I would say at this point our play makers are on the defensive side of the ball with Finely and Grant out on offense. Driver's age and injuries are slowing him down, which leaves Jennings to do it by himself.
Thats not to say we have a pathetic offense, but not a dominate one where you can go all out without regard to field position and time of possession.
ON defense we have Woodson, Mathews, Williams, Collins, Raji, and Jenkins. All have game changing abilities where we have only Jennings on offense with that type of ability.
Pack won the Jets game by playing within themselves on offense without putting their defense in bad situations, but in good situations where these play makers can be aggressive without their backs against the wall.
Beginning of the year I would say we are a offensive team, or at least balanced with our play makers, things have changed.
November 04, 2010 at 11:51 am
BS. The D has kept us in every single game this season, DESPITE the offense.
The Packers are a D team. We're #4 in points scored, the only stat that matters.
Green Bay is a defensive team.
November 04, 2010 at 12:02 pm
#4? Says who? I saw 7th? Same diff.
November 04, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Says NFL.COM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2010&seasonType=REG&am...
4th in PPG. This, with an extra game than the defenses in front of them.
November 04, 2010 at 11:07 am
Thank you. I was waiting for this. IMO Rodgers doesn't need to stuff the stat sheet for him - or this team - to progress. What did his stats do for us last year against Arizona? I liked his approach. Sometimes a leader has to step aside for things to work and I think we saw that against the Jets.
November 04, 2010 at 11:15 am
Well, I wouldn't create a false-dichotomy that he needs to be either/or. He made just enough plays to put points on the board while some of his supporting cast left even more points off the board by failing to step up.
The situation will be fluid every game and Rodgers needs to respond in-kind. He needs to press some games and take them over like 'elite' QB's do; while not putting his team in compromising positions by being inconsistant on 3rd down or turning the ball over.
As for thr Cardinals game: His stat sheet made up for a 17 point deficit. It was a hand-full of plays beyond the game ending fumble that cost them the game. Looking only at Rodgers last play and sayin, 'ya, that's the play' is silly.
November 04, 2010 at 01:56 pm
What did his stat sheet do for us in AZ? What did his D do for us?
Rodgers' stellar play was THE SOLE reason we were in that game to begin with. The ammount of good plays Rodgers did in that game far exceeds the bad plays.
November 04, 2010 at 11:09 am
If Brady is a "game manager," then I hope to God that Aaron Rodgers becomes a game manager.
Three super bowls. That is the definition of success at the quarterback position.
Gunslingers lose in the playoffs. See, e.g., Favre.
November 04, 2010 at 11:21 am
Agree completely. The only real "stat" QB's to win a SB in the last 10 years were Peyton and Brees. Brees had a running game to support him though, so Peyton is really the only pass first team to win.
That being said, we don't have the running game to get us there, and the defense is opportunistic, but needs to remain consistent with what they did this last week to give them a "good" chance at a SB.
PackerAaron
November 04, 2010 at 11:26 am
"Peyton is really the only pass first team to win." Gotta add Big Ben's second SB in this category as well. They had NO running game that year or indeed in that game.
November 04, 2010 at 11:29 am
The Cardinals were oh so close to doing the same thing.
November 04, 2010 at 11:38 am
Aaron, I think it's hard to think of Big Ben as much of a passer.
Fantasy football hates this guy, but he does win.. A LOT...he kind of just does whatever his team needs for a win.
I personally don't care if Rodgers ever wins an MVP; sets any records; eclipses Favre or Starr in any way; or becomes some Fantasy Football juggernaut.
Just Win Baby!
November 04, 2010 at 12:06 pm
The reason I don't include Big Ben's 2nd SB in this "Pass first Team" category is because they had the #1 scoring defense that year. That is the point I was getting at. Yes good passers have won the big game, but outside Peyton, the teams had another strong part of their team to help them.
To that point, Peyton's defense stepped up at the end of that season and in the playoffs that year.
PackerAaron
November 04, 2010 at 12:17 pm
And the Packers defense hasn't been strong? I understand they aren't exactly the Steelers of '08 but they are playing way better than most people are giving them credit for. This morning, Mike Golic asked McCarthy about his "struggling defense" - a defense that just recorded a shutout on the road!
If the conversation is "Can the Packers win a Super Bowl with Aaron Rodgers?" the answer is hell to the yes.
November 04, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Agree the defense has been playing good, and plenty better than expected. Some players are really stepping up and making a name for themselves.
I know Aaron Rodgers is good enough to take the team to the SB. Maybe all this stems from me taking him in Fantasy Football and he hasn't been lighting it up like I would like :)
November 04, 2010 at 12:45 pm
@Nathan. YOU just said it...it's the Fantasy Factor...
Fantasy nerds everywhere dislike Rodgers now for the same reason that they've always devalued Big Ben.
One reason I've stopped doing Fantasy is it ruins the REAL football experience....Gamesmanship is what makes good players great.
Not gaudy numbers.
People rip Marino for that...with good reason.
All the real legendary QB's won games based on good leadership and sound decision making...not with by 'gunslinging' (e.g. Favre 2000 to present)
If Aaron Rodgers is turning into another Bradshaw/Aikman type of guy vs. a Marino/Favre type of guy...then I for one am excited about the future.
Go Pack!
November 04, 2010 at 12:53 pm
@bogmon. It sure helped Bradshaw's 4 TDs, Montana's 4 TDs, Young's 6 TDs, Starr's best postseason QB rating of all time...
November 04, 2010 at 12:18 pm
1) No Finley and Driver banged up
2) No Tauscher and Bulaga--who will be good--is still learning
3) Supposedly the wind on Sunday was crazy
4) Rodgers had a concussion in week 5
5) Revis + Cromartie = 0 INTs
6) Jones dropped a probable score
*************
I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy, but the fact is this, with no Finley, against a #1 defense, in the wind, no picks...and we won, on the road. I mean, get a grip people. Rodgers is still the guy we thought he was. The arm is still there. We're winning. To say that Rodgers is "the matter with the Packers offense"--I just have to laugh at that. We would not be a 5-3 team with Cutler, Stafford or Favre I can promise you that.
November 04, 2010 at 12:34 pm
Regardless, I don't think anyone that is a fan of the Packers wants somebody else besides Aaron Rodgers as their QB. He will be the QB here for a long time to come more than likely, but the bar has been set high for him. Both because of the numbers he has put up in the past and because of the national media jumping on the GB/AR wagon this season.
Since the expectations are there, the criticism is sure to be there as well.
November 04, 2010 at 01:30 pm
Agreed completely.
It's because of what he can do that we (I) criticize him as much as we have.
Maybe we're spoiled, but we expect a 100 rating game from him every week.
November 04, 2010 at 12:34 pm
We have a good defense--better if and when the D line gets healthy. I think our overall secondary is VERY good. We have a very good defensive coordinator. Whether the Packers are a "defensive team," whatever that means, I have no idea.
But we have a defense that is good enough to win a game for us. It just did, against one of the best rushing teams on the road. It can happen again.
Rodgers is 5-3. That's how you're supposed to grade a QB, right? (joke). I truthfully don't care what Rodgers does as long as we keep winning.
November 04, 2010 at 01:52 pm
Rogers would be less "scared" if MM would give him an outlet pass option once in a while!!!
November 04, 2010 at 03:43 pm
This movement in the pocket or "happy feet", could it be that a strategic move by him such as trying establish or reestablish sight and clean throwing lanes?
November 04, 2010 at 03:50 pm
Anything's possible, but when he's done so (especially Miami and Washington) he frequently put himself at risk for a sack, hit or to be flushed. Appears as though he's better off working through his progressions with the pocket already there.
Many of those pressures/hits/sacks were on him.
November 04, 2010 at 05:24 pm
It's been remarked that he misses open receivers. Perhaps there's just not a clear lane to them at the time. Defenses have been flooding the field.
It is risky to leave the pocket, but he is mobile, has faith in his escapability and is a piece of the running game that doesn't get much mention when people discuss the lack of run production.
November 05, 2010 at 08:19 am
Rodgers is missing his top RB (Grant), best receiving target (Finley) and third best receiving target (Driver). This offense is no longer elite w/ those players out. Not even close. Rodgers needs to limit his turnovers the rest of the season if the Packers want to reach the postseason. He did that on Sunday and led his team to a win that nobody expected.
Aaron Rodgers is not the problem w/ this offense. Injuries are. And weird play calling. And sometimes the OL and James Jones.
November 06, 2010 at 10:52 am
Right, I agree with that. But for the sake of argument, Payton Manning is missing 2 receivers, Dallas Clark and Joseph Addai. And his OL is shitty as well.
Rodgers wouldn't be the problem if he were any other QB.
Grossly simplifying, as the elite QB he is, when the O doesn't perform, it's his fault.
November 05, 2010 at 10:19 pm
The way I see it-short and simple. MM is out coached by Capers.
This high powered offense has no grove.
Think about it---who would you rather have, Capers-Trojack-Green-OR Philbin ,Campem or Slowcum- DO the math! DEFENSE wins w/ a short hand I might add!!
November 05, 2010 at 10:31 pm
Campem spelled wrong for a reason, he wasn't a player, well he played- why a coach?
Gezzz. OL sucks!