Packers Question of the Day: How Many Wins?
With Aaron Rodgers sidelined for what looks to be the remainder of the season, that leaves Brett Hundley at the helm with a roster that seems to be falling apart at the seam.
How many wins can a Hundley-led Packers team rattle off from now until the end of the season?
__________________________
Zachary Jacobson is a staff writer/reporter for Cheesehead TV. He's the voice of The Leap on iTunes and can be heard on The Scoop KLGR 1490 AM every Saturday morning. He's also a contributor on the Pack-A-Day Podcast. He can be found on Twitter via @ZachAJacobson or contacted through email at [email protected].
NFL Categories:
Comments (62)
Bearmeat
October 17, 2017 at 08:31 am
If the OL and secondary get healthy? 9. If not, 7. Maybe 6.
Hundley is going to have to carry the team on Sunday if they're going to win. Odds are against it.
dobber
October 17, 2017 at 08:52 am
I disagree. I think Hundley needs to be efficient and credible at QB, but they're going to have to run the ball against the Saints. On this first week of prep as the #1 QB, they've got to keep him in manageable situations and keep the whole playbook open. They can't get into a track meet with the Saints. It's time to use the 2 TE sets--or the 3-back sets with the TE and FB flanking a RB that MM used to like so much--to try to impose their will at the line. When the safeties are drawn up, audible out of it. Keep it simple. NO has a track record of laying eggs on the road...this would be a good time for that, although they're playing well right now.
I don't have much of any hope for a win on Sunday, but if they could steal one, it would go a long way toward keeping this team afloat. Protect home field, get out with a win and no new injuries, get to the bye and regroup.
pacman
October 17, 2017 at 10:15 am
The OL is not built to sustain a running game. That was before all the injuries. Have you seen the Packers trying to run up the middle? It's almost embarrassing how little push they generate. IMO, the only chance the Packers have for the season is if Hundley can make all his basic throws (back shoulder, slants, drop offs) and the receivers (I'm calling you out Cook!) can catch the ball. We don't need to make the miracle throws that AR made. But MM has to call a different game.
dobber
October 17, 2017 at 10:37 am
I don't think we really disagree: MM has to call a different game.
But if they can't sustain a threat on the ground, Hundley is likely sunk before he's started. Even against a New Orleans, who has been decent the last few weeks, they can't let them pin their ears back and come get him...especially because the OL is so suspect. NO lit up Stafford something like 7 times on Sunday with TJ Lang inactive. Admittedly, Stafford had a bad wheel and couldn't escape, but what is NO going to do to the Packers on Sunday if it's McCray, Patrick, Linsley, Evans and John? I think they're likely to get one of the starters back. Maybe Bulaga.
I would argue that even with 2 TEs on the field, Kendricks, Bennett and RRod can still make that a passing set. If they're starting 3 scrubs--likely at least two of them will be guards-- on Sunday, I like their chances better if they can push the pile a little bit.
With #12, it was 11 personnel all the time because HE made the difference. MM didn't have to be an outstanding playcaller because he had an outstanding QB to make adjustments on the field. The play calls have to be good, and MM is going to have to set up and manipulate defenses to give Hundley a chance to be good.
BradHTX
October 17, 2017 at 12:47 pm
"I'm calling you out Cook!"
Gee, so far this season, Cook's been playing reasonably well — 21/209/1. For, umm... Oakland?
pacman
October 17, 2017 at 11:43 pm
Oops - Bennett!
Tundraboy
October 18, 2017 at 12:50 pm
Agreed. No track meet. Even if by some miracle we are way ahead. Not with the secondary in the shape its in.
RCPackerFan
October 17, 2017 at 08:34 am
Here is the bigger question...
Assuming Rodgers is 100% done for the year...
Are we better off finishing with a bad record, getting higher draft picks and reload for next year. Or finishing with a really good record, making the playoffs and getting a lot of picks for Hundley?
dobber
October 17, 2017 at 08:46 am
More picks > higher picks.
With 4 wins at this stage and likely to get 6 or 7 minimum, you're already outside the top 10. I'd rather have an additional #2 or, if Hundley is awesome, #1. Plenty of holes to plug on this team. Just one player ain't gonna do it.
I don't believe in tanking.
RCPackerFan
October 17, 2017 at 08:54 am
I don't believe in tanking. I don't want to either.
I'm just asking what would be better for us in the long run.
dobber
October 17, 2017 at 08:59 am
The draft is likely a 2-3 year proposition, anyway. If it's all about the draft at this stage, you're talking about players who are going to be developing at the fringe of #12's window.
RCPackerFan
October 17, 2017 at 09:41 am
Well depending. Your higher first round picks typically come in and play right away and can make a difference.
For me, I prefer getting to the playoffs with Hundley, and being able to trade him in the offseason for more higher picks. The higher picks will help the team more immediately.
billybobton
October 17, 2017 at 01:32 pm
I don't believe in tanking either but the first question has to be who will be GM making the pick?
Raji was a one year wonder followed a couple of average range then bad the rest of his career. it is not coincidence his departure and hundreds of snaps going to players who would not fall face flat to avoid contact (check the dallas games) made the DL the strength of the D
we can not afford another hawk either
Tundraboy
October 18, 2017 at 05:41 pm
Tough choice,. If no chance of Rodgers.,prefer very good to excellent play by Hundley, but few wins, is enticing.
Bearmeat
October 17, 2017 at 08:51 am
It's a moot point anyway. There's no way in hell that MM's team will tank.
dobber
October 17, 2017 at 08:52 am
That should already count for something in the argument over whether or not he's a good coach.
RCPackerFan
October 17, 2017 at 08:55 am
I'm not saying the team will tank...
Just asking what is best for us in the long run.
I prefer winning and making the playoffs.
dobber
October 17, 2017 at 09:03 am
I guess the question is: is it tanking if you have a small group of starters who are going to need 6+ weeks to get back on the field (so there's a reasonable chance they could contribute this season, yet) but you put them on IR? We're at that stage in roster management, I think...
RCPackerFan
October 17, 2017 at 09:44 am
This roster is a mess right now. Plain and simple.
I mean just Rodgers injury alone cripples the team.
But add in their Pro Bowl caliber OT's, an emerging pro bowl caliber LG, also their top 3 backup OL. Add in they were without their top 2 starting CB's, and their 4th(?) best CB just went on IR. And are without their most versatile defensive player.
Its simply a mess...
dobber
October 17, 2017 at 10:39 am
Yep. It's a mess and it has very little to do with how it was constructed.
Ibleedgreenmore
October 17, 2017 at 08:41 am
The one thing none of us wanted, yup it plus tons more our injured we are limping around.
dobber
October 17, 2017 at 08:57 am
I tend to be an optimist. Some might call me a homer, but I like to think I see most sides of the argument.
That said, I think this team will probably get to 7 wins overall. If players get healthy and they find the magic elixir on defense that results in a pass rush and CBs who actually cover, they could get to 9. The remaining schedule really isn't all that daunting...a lot of teams there not playing well with their starters, much less injuries.
RCPackerFan
October 17, 2017 at 09:46 am
Thats not unreasonable. I think they will win 4-5 more game depending on what happens with the injuries.
Hundley I think will surprise people.
Teams are winning games with lesser talented players then Hundley.
dobber
October 17, 2017 at 10:40 am
We'll have to see how he does on Sunday against a weaker defense playing on a slower surface than they're used to, but you're right: I can think of about 8 QBs currently starting that Hundley is likely to be at least as good as.
badaxed
October 17, 2017 at 09:34 pm
How can anyone say Hundley is better than any other QB? He has only played in one game and that one was a stinker. with the current supporting cast he might not have a chance to show anything except trying to escape with his life every game.
egbertsouse
October 17, 2017 at 09:18 am
7-9 with a slight chance to go 8-8.
As mentioned above, it's really too late to tank at this point and it doesn't work in the NFL(I'm looking at you, Cleveland) like it does in the NBA where one player can get you to the finals (I'm looking at you again, Cleveland).
jeremyjjbrown
October 17, 2017 at 09:30 am
I'm sore that Rodgers is out too but I think you guys are too negative. If the Broncos can go 9-7 with Trevor Siemian, then I think Hundley can go 5-5 or 6-4 and get this team to a wildcard. Hundley has a lot better arm skills than Siemian. If Rodgers can come back for the playoffs it's anyones game.
McCarthy has confidence in Hundley, and Mike also stepped up and owns his shortcomings after Rodgers went down. Mike sounded pissed about how they handled Rodgers injury and that is a very good sign. I expect to see him pull some interesting stuff out for the remainder of the Hundley era.
Zack what's your answer to your own question?
dobber
October 17, 2017 at 10:51 am
Yeah, I want to hear what the writers think.
Al, Jason, Cory, Zack, Michelle, Dave, Ross, Elisha, etc.: stand up and be counted!!!
EdsLaces
October 17, 2017 at 09:26 am
I think Hundley might muster a couple wins max. We are terrible as a team overall with all of our health problems especially. We need a run game and we are still trying to roll with a WR at RB. We need this Johnson kid from Auburn ....stat.
NMPF
October 17, 2017 at 09:37 am
4-6, 5-5 the rest of the way is probably over optimistic. With the O line, CB injuries and now #12 gone, scraping out 2-3 ugly wins the rest of the way is much more realistic.
Gianich
October 17, 2017 at 09:52 am
8-8 at best with this O-line situation. I'd be surprised if Hudley lasts behind the group of O-linemen left. Bahk's hammy isn't going anywhere for a while. The CBs can't tackle and the outside rush can't get home. #12 could cover that up. Brett can't.
sonomaca
October 17, 2017 at 09:53 am
Wow, pessimists! If they can scrape together a win vs. NO, they get two weeks of work with Hundley and two weeks to get healthy.
Gianich
October 17, 2017 at 12:14 pm
They only thing they will be scraping up vs teh Saints is the jockstraps of the D-backs. Here's the facts;
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00/gamelog/?opp_i...
Gianich
October 17, 2017 at 12:17 pm
Brees owns Dom, but that could be said for any top 10 QB every year...
Curt
October 17, 2017 at 09:56 am
I see three likely wins - at CLE and home vs TB and Balt (if they can't beat Chi at home).
Splitting with Det is a possibility, but if GB loses right after the buy, they won't even split. Home against MN will be only close if emotion (and a healthy OL is available in Dec).
With no defensive backs, NO, Pitt and CAR will get ahead early and I see little hope for wins.
That leaves Chi at home - a winnable game, but dependent upon throwing some new looks at their rookie QB so DB's need to be healthy.
My best guess is then 4-4 going into the last two games with MN and Det....which translates to 4-6 and missing the playoffs unless Rodgers comes back to provide a lift for those two games.
Tundraboy
October 17, 2017 at 10:07 am
Play everybody and see what we got. Get Hundley and all the rest some experience and let the chips fall where they may. Use the entire playbook and maybe even some new stuff. Conventional West Coast wouldnt be a bad idea either. No time to get conservative. Next year and probably Rodgers will unfortunately have to wait.
Mojo
October 17, 2017 at 10:18 am
Rodgers is not coming back - at least this year. I'll go with three more wins for a total of seven for the season.
With a healthy team, who knows maybe they play .500 ball, but I don't see that happening. I think Bakh partially tore his hammy the first time and that's why he's struggling to get back. If he tries to come back early again he'll just continue to reinjure. Same type of thing with Bulaga and his high ankle sprain. Got a bad feeling about Taylor too.
The farce it's become at o-line makes it too much for a newbie like Hundley to overcome. Plus, I think they struggle to establish the run with opponents staking the box.
And then there's the secondary ....
Curt
October 17, 2017 at 10:36 am
Amazing how quickly my attitude went from Super Bowl participant thoughts to bottom half of the league.
dobber
October 17, 2017 at 10:42 am
"The farce it's become at o-line makes it too much for a newbie like Hundley to overcome....And then there's the secondary ...."
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's focus on one dumpster fire at a time...
Since'61
October 17, 2017 at 10:53 am
If you heard MMs presser yesterday, there is no thought of tanking. For one of the few times in his tenure in GB MM sounded angry, very angry and not just about the hit on AR but with his team and my guess would be with his staff for how poorly the personnel changes were handled during the game and the resulting poor communications. He stated categorically that "we will not play like this again."
MM is going to need to keep Hundley in situations where he can succeed. As Bearmeat correctly posted this means keep it simple. MM also stated that he (MM) needs to get into a rhythm. He (MM) needs to do a better job. This tells me that AR was making a lot of play calls at the LOS and/or executing the pass/run option based on his post snap reads and that MM has been making fewer and fewer play calls.
The plan for this week will be to keep Hundley clean with the run game and quick passing attack. How that translates into the packages to be utilized remains to be seen. It also means that the defense will need to make stops and flip the field for good field position.
All of this depends upon who can actually play and who is not available. If we can get King and Brooks back, that should help the D. Anyone else should make the defense that much the better.
On offense the health of the OL will be the key. If we go into this week's game with the OL that finished the game in Minn. it will not pretty for sure.
As for the # of wins I'm going to stay positive and go with 10 maybe 9. Regardless of the outcome against the Saints we'll have a better sense for how the season can go after we know who returns from the bye and what type of team we can put on the field. Thanks, Since '61
Handsback
October 17, 2017 at 11:00 am
I'm with you, 9 wins if lucky and 10 wins if the team comes together and people get healthy. If the Oline stays like it is....8-8 would be a great year!
BradHTX
October 17, 2017 at 01:07 pm
S61: I always really appreciate your posts, you are always thoughtful and polite, and almost always well reasoned. You elevate every conversation you participate in. Thank you for that.
That said, I have to say... Where can I get whatever you are smoking, my friend? :)
Everything you say about McCarthy and the ability to make things work with Hundley is accurate. But you do realize there are only 10 games LEFT, right? With the... hell, dumpsters are too small, let's call it a landfill fire on the OL (ignoring the issues with the defense), I don't think they'd win out or lose only one game even with Rodgers still playing! I see:
vs NO: 50/50
vs Det: 50/50
@ Chi: 50/50
vs Bal: W
@ Pit: L
vs TB: 50/50
@ Cle: W
@ Car: L
vs Min: 50/50
@ Det: L
That's 2-7 more wins as far as I see it, and I'm leaning a lot more to the low end than the high — which has more to do with the injuries than Hundley.
I'm going with 7-9, but I honestly would not be surprised by 4-12. Yup, I can see them losing out if they can't fix the OL issues.
dobber
October 17, 2017 at 01:31 pm
I Think he's saying 10-6 or 9-7.
BradHTX
October 17, 2017 at 03:48 pm
OK, well now I feel dumb. LOL
Still think expecting them to win half their remaining games is optimistic.
Since'61
October 17, 2017 at 04:35 pm
Brad - I appreciate your generous comments. Dobber is correct. I am thinking 9-7 or 10 -6. However, no worries, I probably should have been more clear in my post. You are correct as well, if the OL does not get straightened out either by better play or the return of our injured starters our offense will be a cluster f**k at best and we may end up 6-10 or 7-9.
I'm considering the fact that we have 5 home games remaining against, NO, Det., Minn., Bal., and Tampa Bay. Each of these teams have been up and down so far and this has been a really strange season in the NFL so far. Just this past weekend Atlanta lost to Miami at home, the Lions were trounced by the Saints and the 0-5 NY Giants defeated Denver in Denver. Talk about WTF!
If and it's a gigantic if, we can play well enough to win our home games or at least 4 of them, that's at least 8 maybe 9 wins just by winning at home. That means we only need 1 or 2 wins on the road. Let's hope that we can still beat the Browns when we play them. That leaves the Bears, the Lions, Steelers, and Panthers for road games. If we're healthy we can still beat the Browns and Bears giving us 2 more road wins. 2 road wins plus 4 home wins gets us to 10-6 and should get us into the post-season.
Optimistic? Yes. Impossible? Absolutely not. But we must get our OL fixed, get our defense healthy and put our QB in positions to succeed.
One play, one game at a time. Thanks, Since '61
billybobton
October 17, 2017 at 01:36 pm
Once again MM did not get here last year. he is not working with someone else's staff. This is a decade of effort and control and if after all those years you have to get angry ..... and blame ..... instead of facing up to a team without enough talent and with questionable at best coaching in several places....then that does speak for itself
If he really had a staff this unprepared and back ups that unprepared it is on him, fake anger or not
dobber
October 17, 2017 at 01:56 pm
Maybe that's why he's angry. I think he knows he looked bad and looked unprepared. That IS on him.
Finwiz
October 17, 2017 at 02:11 pm
He wasn't angry, he just wants you to think he was, to show support for his player. You bought it.
It was a dumb question, and I would have acted indignantly as well.
Who flippin wants to hear about Craper-nick?
I sure don't, and I suspect he wants nothing to do with him either.
Since'61
October 17, 2017 at 04:38 pm
Good job Dobber! You are really piling up the cookies. Thanks, Since '61
Ustabeayooper
October 17, 2017 at 11:21 am
One has to look at the remaining schedule. All of our home games are winnable. We have two difficult road games, Pitt and Carolina. The Bears, Browns and Lions are all having problems. We are going to see a different approach with Hundley. There will be less audibles and more emphasis on the running game. We will not be as reliant on our passing game. Our opponents over the next 10 weeks will suffer injuries. It is not who you play, but when you play them. We are fortunate that we have a bye week coming up. The worst we can be is 4-3, the best 5-2. The idea that we will only win 7 or 8 games without Rodgers shortchanges the rest of the team and the coaching staff.
Dr.Rodgers
October 17, 2017 at 12:23 pm
10 wins. I'm an eternal optimist The one and only true fan. Super Bowl or GTFO!
norcaljoe
October 17, 2017 at 12:48 pm
Thanks Curry. We have to be optimistic, until proven otherwise. They have been grooming Hundley for at least 2 years, so it time for him to step up, and I think he can. I was initially enameled with the idea of bringing in Romo. On second thought, that’s a desperation move and GB is not truly desperate yet.
The real burden now lies with MM. He has been playing with 2 first-ballot HOF QBs for more years than I can count. A great coaching staff can help tremendously here. We all know Brett is not relaxing ARod, not even close. So MM has to craft a game plan that highlights hos strengths (mobility, throwing on the run, familiarity with the system), and minimize his lack of strengths (throwing downfield, probably unable to make audibles, and starind doing primary targets).
So after a few days of “poor us”, it’s time to retool and dance with who ya brought. I think MM is right, and that adds incredible pressure.
My feeling is that if they finish 10 and 6 that will be miraculous. Maybe not enough for a playoff spot, but who knows in this parity-driven league. The Saints game is important - most important is how they play after the bye. Go Packers from a fellow optimist.
norcaljoe
October 17, 2017 at 12:58 pm
All is not lost, at least not yet. With what we know, an optimistic finish would be 10-6, or 9-7. That may nor be enough for a playoff, but they have home games against the Bears, Vikes and Lions. They will need to win ALL of those games. Overly optimistic? Sure, but I’m not giving up hope until proven otherwise.
The pressure is now on MM. In short order, he has to build a game plan to help Hundley succeed. With a battered O-Line and Secondary, that would be a challenge even for Lombardi or Bellichik.
Silver lining - if Hundley plays well his marketing value goes way up. Maybe, just maybe, a trade with the NTGs for a corner. Eli looks finished, and the Giants need a replacement. Maybe they do that in the draft. But they MAY be able to do it if Hundley develops into a top 10 or 15 QB.
Biggest losers - 1) ARod. 2) Davante Adams in a contract year with essentially a rookie
QB. 3) Us die-hard, heart-broken GB fans.
sonomaca
October 17, 2017 at 01:11 pm
Hundley could also get hurt if he’s hit too much. Need to really go run heavy.
Waxonwaxoff
October 17, 2017 at 01:06 pm
I'm optimistic...9 wins!! One question I have: when AR comes back (maybe next year)--what are the long term ramifications when a thirty something quarterback breaks a collar bone on the throwing shoulder? Just curious if this injury would negatively affect the GOATS skills going forward. Just curious...
BradHTX
October 17, 2017 at 01:12 pm
We don't know yet because we haven't been told exactly what the break is. If it's a clean break in the middle of the bone, it likely won't be an issue down the road. If it's a break at the Acromio-clavicular joint (the end of the collar bone that articulates with the shoulder blade inside the shoulder) then it could be more problematic. But the article in the J-S yesterday where they interviewed an orthopedist sounded pretty positive.
croatpackfan
October 17, 2017 at 03:24 pm
10 wins!
Qoojo
October 17, 2017 at 05:10 pm
Lose to Saints, then the kitties in Detroit. Win at Bears. Lose at Ravens, Steelers, and TB. Beat the browns. Lose to Panthers. Beat Vikings and Detroit at home.
So that's 4 more games. 8 wins total.
4thand1
October 17, 2017 at 05:16 pm
I say 10 wins if we get relatively healthy after the buy. There are 6 games left that are winnable. 5-5 gets us to 9 wins.
Duneslick
October 17, 2017 at 06:17 pm
2 wins from here out 1 in either the bears or ravens game and hopefully 1 against cleveland
Duneslick
October 17, 2017 at 06:21 pm
Major factor is if Hundley can stay healthy. Callahan is even less mobile.
badaxed
October 17, 2017 at 09:53 pm
We can win out if we all pray real hard, do not swear, No Jaywalking, no smoking or drinking spirits, and only drink the KOOLAID served by Mcfatty, the White Zombie and Howdy Doody.