With or Without Rodgers, Packers Are Creating a New "Window"

Packers' demise without QB12 is not a foregone conclusion.

Much has been made of the urgency the Packers should feel about winning a Super Bowl while the “Aaron Rodgers window” is still open.  Somehow, the narrative persists that Green Bay hasn’t surrounded their future Hall of Fame signal caller with enough weapons.  Anyone who actually follows this team knows that narrative is a fallacy.  Seems like an All Pro receiver, a top five running back, one of the best offensive lines in the game, and a bevy of talented tight ends, combined with a top ten defense, should be more than enough to help get the job done. 

 

It takes more than a quarterback to keep a “window” open.  When the Packers won the Super Bowl following the 2010 season, it wasn’t just the Rodgers window.  It was also the Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, Chad Clifton, Charles Woodson, BJ Raji, Clay Matthews and Nick Collins window.   It was the Ryan Pickett, AJ Hawk, Tramon Williams, Josh Sitton and Scott Wells window.   

 

Sometimes if the other people in the window are good enough, you don’t even need a quarterback having a great year.  In 2018 the Philadelphia Eagles won it all with Nick Foles under center.  In 2016 the Denver Broncos went all the way with a washed-up Peyton Manning at quarterback.  In 2013 the Baltimore Ravens took home the Lombardi Trophy with Joe Flacco as their field leader.  In 2000 The Ravens won again quarterbacked by Trent Dilfer.  Packer fans should well remember John Elway was way past his prime when he led the Broncos to victory over the Packers in the 1998 Super Bowl.  But he had Terrell Davis and a great defense to carry him. 

 

The point is, we put too much emphasis on the Aaron Rodgers “window”.  In reality, the team is constantly evolving and creating a new team chemistry each season.  A mixture that, if done right, keeps opening a new window.  Since 2010, Green Bay has played in four NFC championship games.  Few teams can say that.  It’s an indication that management has been doing a pretty good job of constantly sifting the team to create windows that give them a chance.   

 

Right now, one could say we are in the Davante Adams, Jaire Alexander, Aaron Jones, Za’darius Smith David Bakhtiari, Kenny Clark window.  Aaron Rodgers is certainly an important part of that chemistry, but if the others play at the top of their game, Rodgers doesn’t need to have the best season of his career for Green Bay to win it all.   

 

Meanwhile, management is slowly, gradually building a new edition.  Two or three years from now, we’re not likely to be talking about the players mentioned in the preceding paragraph.  Most of them won’t be the core members of the team any more.  Instead, we may well be talking about a window featuring AJ Dillon, Robert Tonyan, Amari Rodgers, Josh Myers, Jon Runyan, Darnell Savage, Rashan Gary, Eric Stokes and.........Jordan Love.  Here again, if enough players blossom, Jordan Love doesn’t need to be Aaron Rodgers.  He can be Joe Flacco, or even Trent Dilfer, and the team will be just fine. 

 

Players will come, and players will go (Jordy Nelson, Brian Bulaga, Randall Cobb, Mike Daniels, Micah Hyde, Casey Hayward) and yet the window stays open, reinforced by new and, hopefully, even better players.  The quarterback is no different.  When the Packers decided to move on from Brett Favre in 2008, many thought their window of opportunity had closed.  Three years later they were world champions.  A new window had opened. 

 

I certainly hope Aaron Rodgers comes back.  He’s a great player.  But I’m not worried about some sort of window of opportunity closing if his days in the Green and Gold are done.  He didn’t get to the brink of the Super Bowl the past two years by himself.  There are many more windows to come, and one day the view may be nothing short of........Super. 

 

-----------------------------------

Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.

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15 points

Comments (77)

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stockholder's picture

July 05, 2021 at 07:16 am

Reading between the Lines. I Get you want to move on from Rodgers. And you want everyone else to buy into it. Nobody in the NFL; is ever going to agree with you! = On Rodgers having enough weapons. " Or the Time line." If anything; Rodgers has gotten better, while the team stays in transition. " He made players better around him." And thats what we won't see with your replacements. But you don't want to give credit to where credit is due. Your praise of Gutey has 1 major failure. Were not in the final stages of winning the super-bowl. Gutey patched the defense. He's about replacement rather then stability. So I'll buy your hype. But don't ever think Gutey is the next brain of the NFL.

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Packers0808's picture

July 05, 2021 at 07:25 am

And what we see Stockholder write daily we don't really think he is the next brain of this blog either! So life goes on!

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NickPerry's picture

July 05, 2021 at 09:54 am

"Your praise of Gutey has 1 major failure. Were not in the final stages of winning the super-bowl. Gutey patched the defense. He's about replacement rather then stability."

Sorry SH but I couldn't disagree anymore with this statement. YES, Gute patched the defense in 2019 with Amos, Z Smaith, P Smith and Turner, BUT didn't he HAVE to do this? When Gute was named GM in January of 2018, just a few months before the draft he inherited quite a mess. Teds health was falling and after hearing him actually speak, I no longer could blame TED for what the Packers had become. I will ALWAYS put that on Mark Murphy who saw Ted day in and day out. Howin the hell e couldn't see Teds regression is something which just blows my mind!

Gute takes over a team who had a losing season for the 1st time in 9 years, Rodgers 1st year starting. They had NO OLB in 2017. Matthews was a shell of himself and Perry was playing on one of the worst contracts Ted and Russ Ball ever gave a player. I mean holy crap, Kyle Frackrell lead the team in sacks.

Gute gets crap for his first draft BUT he did get Alexander and he DID make a trade which got us Savage. He also brought in the Smiths and Gary in his 2nd draft which IMO is one of his best moves he's made.

He HAD to patch somethings up like OLB, Safety, and a plug and play O-Linemen. Amos was one the best Safeties in the NFL last season and if you like PFF he WAS the BEST. Z Smith is a BEAST and has been a Godsend to this defense. Preston Smith came in last year fat and out of shape. By the time he pulled his head out of his ass and started playing better Rashawn Gary had already started taking his snaps and his job. But Preston was great in 2018 when he was patched in, and I believe he'll be great again this year. Personally I think the 3 headed monster the Packers the Packers line up at OLB will be unstoppable this year.

ALMOST as important has been Billy Turner. He may not have been "Great" at any one position, but could you have imagined the Packers O-Line without his the last 2 years with all the injuries they have?

I just don't understand the Gute hate on this and other sites. REMEMBER the shi show he inherited!

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stockholder's picture

July 05, 2021 at 11:09 am

Nick he did inherit a problem. But wasn't Nick Perry the problem? Injuries #2. The other was the secondary. Sure he had to make up for the draft misses. But was Randall a problem? Would have Rodgers resigned if he didn't spend the money? If TT didn't create the money surplus. None would have come to GB. That just a fact! And he should have drafted what he couldn't get out of his next FA class. They have been cut. While all the time a ILB and another Clark could have been more rewarding. Stoping the revolving door is priority one. Gute has kept turning. Just look at what he did for MM. Nothing. It's Blame the coach and keep your job. And if that doesn't work. We need a QB.

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PhantomII's picture

July 05, 2021 at 12:56 pm

The money surplus was Jordy contract expire, Cobb contract expire, Matthews expired and Perry cut. Gute took that and blew the wad on the FA's we have now.

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JohnnyLogan's picture

July 06, 2021 at 12:41 am

I almost didn't understand a word of this

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Stroh's picture

July 05, 2021 at 05:34 pm

Stockholder wins the day for the stupidest comment competition... Yet Again!!!

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stockholder's picture

July 05, 2021 at 05:56 pm

The Farewell tour starts soon. Happy?

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Stroh's picture

July 06, 2021 at 12:02 am

Your farewell? Cant come soon enough!

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jannes bjornson's picture

July 05, 2021 at 08:32 pm

They can't handle the truth. It's like talking to tree stumps when evaluating some of these Pack fans.

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Amy Berk's picture

July 05, 2021 at 11:27 pm

Right on!

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Eric Zenk's picture

July 06, 2021 at 09:27 am

Stockholder, The point of the story was MORE teams win Super Bowls with less than stellar QB play. Rodgers, Brady, Favre and Mahomes are once in a lifetime players who make their teams better with less talent no doubt. How do you know that the players Gute signs or draft won't make the team better? If you objectively looked at Gute's free agent signings and drafts you would see those replacements ARE clearly better unless your definition of success is 7-9 or 6-9-1 versus 13-3 in 2019 and 2020.

Mr. Hass is NOT disputing Rodgers DOESN'T make the team better in this story. Mr. Hass is not trying to 'move on from Rodgers'. Actually quite the opposite, he wants Rodgers to return, (he said so) as we all do or least most do b/c the chances to win a Super Bowl increase with Rodgers under center versus Love at the helm.

This doesn't imply that Love can't do it, but it will take more time and patience which seems to be in short supply with many Packers fans always in the 'what have you done for me lately mode' and those who are Rodgers apologists. Yes Rodgers is a great player, yes he makes everyone around him better, but his record in the playoffs since winning the Super Bowl in 2010 is less than stellar. Now you can blame management for his poor performances, which apparently you do, while letting Rodgers off the hook for his poor performances, which you also do by not stating that. Mr. Hass points out that Gute has put together a very good team since he took over as the Packers GM to help Rodgers b/c Rodgers can no longer carry a team as he did earlier in his career. The facts support this based on Rodgers performances in 2017, 2018 and 2019.

If you want to blame someone then look at Ted Thompson. He clearly relied too much on draft and develop system and when his drafts sucked the team suffered hence bad records in 2017 and 2018. Gute realized this when he took over and went on a spending spree by signing the Smith brothers and Amos when the Packers had lots of salary cap money to spend in order to compliment Rodgers abilities, while preparing for the eventual transition to Love. That's a GM's job like it or not or disagree if you must, but that's reality in the NFL. That's all Mr. Hass is inferring and nothing more.

Ron Wolf, considered the Gold standard as a GM in most NFL circles missed on MANY draft picks and free agents. Remember Terrell Buckley? How many times did he get toasted in the playoffs by the Cowboys? How about Jamal Reynolds or Ahmad Carroll? Wolf’s teams went to the Super Bowl twice winning once and he’s a HOF. In his own words after the Packers lost to the Broncos in the 1998 Super Bowl: ‘We were nothing more than a fart in the wind’, when people asked him if his Packers teams could be considered a dynasty from 1996-1998.

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stockholder's picture

July 06, 2021 at 08:07 pm

Yes, I realize what he's saying. And what he was implying. As I stated in "READING BETWEEN THE LINES". Reading his past Articles and many others suggest; " We need to move on." Everything written was to support Gute and make Rodgers the ass for his demands. Fire Gute! If your happy with hype. I'm buying. Like I stated. But much has been debated on this site; about his draft selections. And Gute's Failures. And business is business. Yes we can move on without Rodgers. And we can move on without Murphy, and Gute. As far as I'm concerned. If one is removed, they all should be removed! Why? Who cares what Rodgers has done now? Who cares what TT did? Who will care what this FO did? They got rich. We didn't. It sure isn't about doing your job. YOUR ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR LAST GAME!

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cinpackback's picture

July 05, 2021 at 07:25 am

I agree and appreciate the return to sanity.

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PatrickGB's picture

July 05, 2021 at 07:42 am

Heresy! 😉

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Razer's picture

July 05, 2021 at 08:13 am

Well said Ken. You could of added Tom Brady leading the Bucs to the list. Players stepping up their game in the playoffs is usually the story of Championships. We tend to think of regular season numbers to define the type of players and team for any given year. Our inability to get much success in the playoffs isn't so much about talent but more about the underperformance of the team and talent that we have.

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Since'61's picture

July 05, 2021 at 02:46 pm

The underperformance is a reflection of poor preparation and coaching as well. Thanks, Since '61

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Leatherhead's picture

July 05, 2021 at 08:26 am

When I was coaching high school, I had a new QB…and a new team…pretty much every year. You adapt. You coach. You take advantage of your strengths. People invariably step up.

I always enjoyed putting the team together. It was as much fun as playing the games. If you’re a coach and you can’t enjoy working with the new guys, you’re probably in the wrong profession.

I suspect Love is going to surprise some people.

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LambeauPlain's picture

July 05, 2021 at 12:37 pm

Yep! You pretty much describe what Jordan Love experienced during his Jr (and last year) in college, LH. New HC (Gary Andersen!), new O coaches, new system, new OL and WRs due to graduation. He still played winning QB, but not like his sensational Sophomore season.

I think Love will surprise too!

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TheVOR's picture

July 05, 2021 at 08:34 am

All you have to do is look at what they did with the contracts of several veteran players, this team was positioned to win the Super Bowl over the last 2 years, and was certainly a final 4 candidate this season, right up until they alienated a HOF and MVP QB with mismanagement.

This talk about windows is true, but any notion that another one will open in a brief 2-3 years is a joke. The reason it's a joke is it implies you're really good at drafting, and I'm sorry, but it also implies you have a really good QB. If Aaron Rodgers isn't on this team 2021, you'll see two things, one being just how big of a deal an élite QB is to winning and positioning your team for a SB, and two being just how mediocre this franchise will be without 12 on the field. This team won't win 6 games minus Rodgers, and here's the news flash in case anyone can't see it, Gutekunst is not a great drafter. A case could be made that he's mediocre at best.

Make no mistake about, if 12 isn't on the field, the SB window has slammed closed, and any notion that we're just a draft or two away from a new window will be a silly notion. Some franchises remain in QB hell for decades and never field a competitive team. There are 2 kinds of teams in the NFL, the ones who have top level QB talent and appear in the playoffs regularly, and the rest of the teams that wish they had a winning QB. The Packers blew it, they hacked off a HOF MVP QB, and it may be a very long time until we see one again.

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Packers0808's picture

July 05, 2021 at 01:35 pm

Rodgers is not the all mighty savior everyone thinks he is, remember he is a lousy 1-3 in Playoff Games. Never know what Love is capable until he performs, everyone cutting his feet from under him before he gets a chance is rather foolish at this point! ooops typing error was to be 3 not 8!

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Packers0808's picture

July 05, 2021 at 01:34 pm

Rodgers is not the all mighty savior everyone thinks he is, remember he is a lousy 1-3 in Playoff Games. Never know what Love is capable until her performs, everyone cutting his feet from under him before he gets a chance is rather foolish at this point! [OOOOPS Sorry double post somehow]

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jont's picture

July 05, 2021 at 12:10 pm

"Rodgers is not the all mighty savior everyone thinks he is, remember he is a lousy 1-8 in Playoff Games."
?
His record is 11-9.
"Rodgers is 11-8 as a starter in the postseason {before the Tampa loss}. The 11 wins are tied with former Dallas Cowboys quarterbacks Troy Aikman (11-4) and Roger Staubach (11-6). Four of Rodgers' playoff losses were in games that went to overtime, and in three of those losses the Packers did not have an offensive possession."
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/aaron-rodgers-playoff-record-su...

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Stroh's picture

July 06, 2021 at 12:07 am

While I do agree w/ that to some degree, its important to note that Rodgers has lost 4 of the 5 NFCCG he's played in and he hasn't played particularly well in any of them! Hell the TB game in the NFCCG might have been his best performance but he still failed to capitalize on the D giving him 3 2nd half turnovers! So Rodgers has to shoulder a large part of the blame! That is also fact.

5 points
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NickPerry's picture

July 06, 2021 at 05:24 am

Not only did he fail to capitalize but he went 3 & out and the last two TO and was 0-3 passing and didn't gain another yard after a 1st and goal from the 8 yard line, AT Lambeau. I've replayed that 3rd down play over and over and over again where he shoulda and coulda IMO scored a TD had he just took off for the pylon and went head first. I mean this was the NFFCG with less than 5 minutes to play for a chance to get to the SB. Rodgers was just as much a part of that loss as Kevin King.

3 points
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Amy Berk's picture

July 05, 2021 at 11:34 pm

Right on .... Rodgers has had to bail out the defense again and again until just recently. He makes players around him play better even with terrible coaching until MLF came around.
We'll see what happens this year and see how good Love is...

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White92's picture

July 05, 2021 at 12:51 pm

I agree most everything here. I don't think a departure from Rodgers guarantees QB hell, it certainly raises the odds of it.

People also like to point to Rodger's "poor" playoff record as reason to move on from him. What is forgotten is how he played to get the Packers there to begin with.

Look the Packers have the only Super Bowl win out of the division in the Rodgers era. I don't think it's any coincidence that the major difference between those teams is the QB. To say you can win without a top tier QB and point to examples just emphasizes that it is the exception and not the rule.

I hope Jordan Love is all that, but judging from the surprise from most analysts that study this way more than me, I would say it's not likely. Could he be the next Pat Mahomes? Sure, but he could also be the next Mitch Turbiski. For me, I'd stick with the known player and save the gambles for when the HOF QB is gone.

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Leatherhead's picture

July 05, 2021 at 06:41 pm

Love was selected by a better organization than Trubiskey, had a better coach, has a better team around him, and got to study under a HOFer.

I think if you look at the first round QBs taken in 2020…..Herbert, Tua, and Burrows…..then average them up, you’ve got a ballpark estimate of what Love might produce. Myself, I’d then correct for the better team around him and the year of learning.

Best estimate? He’ll complete 65% of his passes, for about 30 TDs. He’ll probably turn it over 10 times. His QB rating will be close to 95. He’ll have several good runs. He won’t get sacked that much. If he just protects the ball and executes the play, his teammates will help him out quite a bit.

3 points
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PhantomII's picture

July 05, 2021 at 01:11 pm

3 INT's given to AR and he still could have ran it in on 3rd down. That's plenty to get it done. The Packers don't lose in big games by 1 bad call or a poor play. They lose by 5-6 major failures at worst possible time. Bucs won despite Brady's play. If we spend money on anything it better be even more defense, because that's what Bucs and 49ers have shown us lately. I like our OL we are building with the quality competition for the run game.

5 points
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Since'61's picture

July 05, 2021 at 03:00 pm

Phantom - if you watch the play objectively without the preconceived notion that Rodgers could have run it in on 3rd and goal from the 8 you will notice;

1. Rodgers was moving from his left to right.
2. There was a Bug defender also moving left to right behind but with an angle and a little ahead of Rodgers.
3. There was another Bucs defender who was coming off his block on the right side of our OL and AR who also could have caught Rodgers from behind.
4. But what no one mentions and is the most obvious point to me about the play is that what do you think the Bucs defenders who were covering our receivers were going to do once Rodgers crossed the LOS. Do you think that they were going to let him run unopposed into th end zone? Our receivers were in the right side of the end zone and so were the Bucs LBs and DBs. This is where Rodgers would have been running to. Rodgers would have had to break tackles to reach the end zone. Given how well the Bucs defense tackles, especially as opposed to our defense tackling I think that Rodgers would have been clobbered by about the 4 or 5 yard line. Brett Favre maybe would have a chance to break a tackle or two, but Rodgers, highly unlikely. Either way it's a 4th down play.
5. MLF decides to take the ball out of Rodgers hands on 4th down to kick an FG why? If we don't score on TD on 4th down we have the Bucs inside their 10 yard line, maybe inside their 5 yard line if Rodgers ran on 3rd down.
Get a 3 and out force a punt from the Bucs end zone and get great field position to try for the TD again. But no we kick an FG and give Brady an opportunity to let Kevin King become a factor again. Rodgers never sees the field again. Game over. Bad coaching decision. Never take the ball out of the hands of your best player, especially when the championship is on the line. Thanks, Since '61

3 points
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PhantomII's picture

July 05, 2021 at 07:49 pm

So 4th and 3 explains 1 of the 4 scenarios. Point is, several ways to get the job done. If he falls forward for 3-5 yards maybe ML decides a different approach. Main thing is, opportunities were there. If AR is so disgruntled he can look hard in the mirror before blaming everyone else, including management. That's my point. If his ego allowed him a fair shake he wouldn't be so raw and would be fired up to get it done with a better overall team to do it this year with guys he has played with and battled through games together. Unfinished business...
40yds in 5 seconds = 8 yds in 1 second.

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Amy Berk's picture

July 05, 2021 at 11:39 pm

Totally agree with you. Do you go back and watch that play in slow mo or what 🙂. If us fans knew what to do so close to the end zone one has to wonder what was going on in MLFs head.

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PhantomII's picture

July 06, 2021 at 11:43 am

It's the way I saw it real time. I think it's fight or flight. You have to want it bad enough to fight for it.....I wish AR had 10% of what drives Brady. I'm glad Brady does not have 10% more skill AR has. I think our team is going to be better than last 2 but are missing the driver of the bus. I think ML offense is a bad matchup with elite defenses. I thing the OL being so bunched up tight helps these defenses elite speed to stop our offense run game. ML is going to have to try something new there. I think 4 WR spread out would help in this instance or taking out 2 TE's and putting 2 more OL in and a fullback/Hback and just hammer them. Getting behind multiple TD's really limits your options. We just need to execute consistently. The defense has a chance to be special....especially with a DL upgrade or Keke stepping up. GPG

2 points
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Leatherhead's picture

July 05, 2021 at 02:32 pm

About 15 years ago, there was a poster on Packerchatters who went by the name Voice Of Reason who said the same thing about Favre. Wrong then, probably wrong now.

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Stroh's picture

July 10, 2021 at 02:27 pm

There is a guy here who goes by The VOR! What do you think that stands for? Has it occured to you it stands for The Voice Of Reason? My guess is one and the same! But don't let logic stop you from disagreeing.

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Eric Zenk's picture

July 06, 2021 at 09:39 am

The Vor: And those teams in QB hell stay there b/c they are teams like the Bears who can't evaluate talent and draft guys like Trubisky over guys like Mahomes. Ron Wolf was considered the master GM by many Packers fans and his teams won how many Super Bowls? One (1). You are living in a fantasy world if you think the Packers (without Rodgers) will never return to a Super Bowl. In today's NFL the appetite for losing teams is non existent just look at the posted comments on this site in 2017 and 2018 including your comments. One of two things will happen. Gute will get the guys he needs or he'll be fired and they'll find another GM. It won't take another 25 years before the Packers return to the Super Bowl. The current NFL environment won't allow that especially with the historic team like the Packers.

2 points
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greengold's picture

July 06, 2021 at 10:30 am

Joe Flacco, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson walk into a bar...

1 points
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MITM's picture

July 05, 2021 at 08:33 am

Our "enough weapons/talent" was really on display these past 2 NFCCG! If you didn't notice the GAP in talent between that 49ers team and the 2019 Packers you are blind. And in the 2020 NFCCG our top 5 RB couldnt do anything besides fumble behind our top Oline that couldnt block the Bucs, where the #1 receiver in the NFL was a non factor and our top 10 defense put us down how many points out of the gate? Maybe The Smith Bros will show up if we make a 3rd straight NFCCG, because they were absolutely useless non factors 2 years in a row. And we ONLY get to a 3rd championship game WITH Aaron. You know, the MVP.

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Packers0808's picture

July 05, 2021 at 08:58 am

Do you pin up Aarons man bun for him? Sure sounds like it

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LambeauPlain's picture

July 05, 2021 at 12:45 pm

In the NFCCG you apparently missed Rodgers missed the talent of the best LT in football the entire game and one of the best RBs in football for half of the game. Seems you had vision problems.

Looks like it takes all 11 after all, not just "12".

0 points
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Rossonero's picture

July 05, 2021 at 08:58 am

Thanks for this article. It's fair to say there are other "windows" that we don't pay as much attention to outside of Rodgers' window that can cause other parts of the team to unravel.

For example: I look back at Nick Collins' freak neck injury in the 2011 season, followed by the front office letting Charles Woodson go in 2012 as the cause for erratic play in the back end of our secondary for years. Now, I will give credit to drafting Micah Hyde (although to this day can't understand why they let him walk without even bothering to make him an offer). Nevertheless, our safety play was average to below average for years.

The only bone I have to pick with the examples given about the Broncos, Ravens and Eagles was that those were elite defenses. We haven't had anything close to that since maybe the 2010 Super Bowl run. While I think our defense is above average, we still don't have anything close to an elite D-line outside of Kenny Clark and have invested little to nothing at ILB since Nick Barnett and AJ Hawk departed.

I know ILB is a position the Packers don't value, and they try other guys out like Morgan Burnett or Raven Greene. That said, if Rodgers window were to close via a trade or his retirement, then those resources should be used to make the defense elite since Jordan Love will need that until he can fully develop and get through his own growing pains.

6 points
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Ferrari-Driver's picture

July 05, 2021 at 09:13 am

We have a team loaded with top talent right now. Last year there wasn't a single team in the NFL who had more pro bowlers than the Green Bay Packers who had SEVEN players represented. We have a team primed and ready for the Super Bowl this year.

Great article Ken and I fully agree with you.

4 points
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TheBigCheeze's picture

July 05, 2021 at 09:25 am

Stop comparing this situation to Favre..... NOT THE SAME!!!

4 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

July 05, 2021 at 12:46 pm

Agree. Favre was easier to understand.

1 points
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jclombardi's picture

July 05, 2021 at 09:28 am

Ah Kool aid for the post Rodgers era. No one in ESPN especially Stephen Smith will agree. Either way it is irreparable damage with the inept conservative Packers management responsible for another "Favre/Rodgers" situation to haunt the team. The fan is right to say the Packers blew it and they hacked off a HOF MVP QB just as they did Favre. Insanity. Again either way the SB window is closed.

Gooood luc with that!

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HarryHodag's picture

July 05, 2021 at 09:50 am

Does #12 play without great players around him? Many of those players are signed long term?

I have a post below that is something for you to consider.

The Packers record since 1992 is something to consider when you talk about incompetent management.

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HarryHodag's picture

July 05, 2021 at 09:51 am

Lets play this game: Rodgers reports to camp then gets injured and is out for the year.

Where do you think the Packers sit?

I think they are contenders if the defense improves a bit and the offense is consistent.

Can they win the division? Yes. Can they do something in the playoffs? Yes.

I've long maintained that the Packers are sitting pretty well across the board. But there's a certain group of people who think #12 plays without support.

The Vikings, Bears and Lions are all likely to be better this year, especially the Vikings. But even without Rodgers, the other personnel is good enough that the Packers will be contenders.

6 points
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White92's picture

July 05, 2021 at 12:56 pm

Sorry man, that's way too much KoolAide for me..

3 points
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Stroh's picture

July 06, 2021 at 12:23 am

"The Vikings, Bears and Lions are all likely to be better this year." People say that every year and they never seem to improve enough to contend for anything. Maybe a one year stint here or there but never for repeated or consistent success.

With Love at QB there is a 50'/50 shot. They could go 5-12 or they could go 10/7 and squeak into the playoffs! Given that no team in the division can say they definitively have a better QB than Love, they could makes the playoffs but advancing is not likely. The D would have to go from about #10 to dominant overall and the rest of the team would have to play extremely well to lift Love to that level. Maybe after 2 or more likely 3 yrs of Love starting they could contend for a SB again.

1 points
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EricinGB's picture

July 05, 2021 at 10:34 am

Another management biased article claiming objective analysis. Rodgers is being totally udervalued agai here....yet Packers will want a kings' ransom in trade if Rodgers refuses to play. Contracts for players like Rodgers historically have been updated every three years or so...Rodgers is currently playing on little to no guaranteed money 2021, 2022, 2023...perhaps the least guarnteed money of all top 15 NFL QBs...this reflects shabby cheap treatment by Packers management... why not guarantee Rodgers Salary in line with the top 10 QBs?...if he's not worth it, then release him....Packers want it both ways...go back and reread all Cheesehead articles since Rodgers dissatisfaction...they are all management biased against Rodgers.

-3 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

July 05, 2021 at 01:10 pm

You do know Rodgers got all that 2021, 22, and 23 salary and guarantees PAID in a 2018 lump sum, right?

I think it was like $75 mil or something....and Rodgers was all smiles and filled with gratitude for Packer management then. Facts are stubborn things.

4 points
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Ferrari-Driver's picture

July 05, 2021 at 02:13 pm

Don't forget about the $57.5 million signing bonus that was paid to Rodgers up front. He has only completed one year of the four-year contract after receiving all of the signing bonus up front. That is one boat load of money that should please most any football player. Here is the data I copied off the internet with the details.

"Aaron Rodgers signed a 4 year, $134,000,000 contract with the Green Bay Packers, including a $57,500,000 signing bonus, $98,700,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $33,500,000. In 2021, Rodgers will earn a base salary of $14,700,000 and a roster bonus of $6,800,000, while carrying a cap hit of $37,202,000 and a dead cap value of $38,356,000.

2 points
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Stroh's picture

July 06, 2021 at 12:31 am

"Rodgers is currently playing on little to no guaranteed money 2021, 2022, 2023." That is correct and its because Rodgers wanted that contract arrangement! Players want a lot guaranteed money up front because if its at the end of the contract they know they might never see it! Rodgers wanted this contract and at the time he signed it 2 yrs ago it made him easily the highest paid player in the NFL! You think the Packers should automatically add more years to the contract and guaranted more money to him? In what business does that apply? Littlel help... NONE!

Rodgers made this bed every bit as much as the Packers! If Not more than the Packers!

You damn right the Packers would want a kings ransom for the reigning NFL MVP! Rodgers was fully aware of all of this when he signed that contract that made him the hightest paid NFL player in history at the time! He was more than happy to sign that contract, he got exactly what he wanted!

What about any of this don't you understand?!!

1 points
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Eric Zenk's picture

July 06, 2021 at 09:43 am

The Packers offered him $40 million for this year, but he declined. Have you been sleeping under a rock?

0 points
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nostradanus's picture

July 05, 2021 at 10:58 am

Nice job Ken! A very well thought of and well written article during a time of bandwagon doom and gloom.
You just made my day!

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splitpea1's picture

July 05, 2021 at 11:21 am

You were doing fine until you got to the "or even Trent Dilfer" part. He completed less than 50% of his passes in the four playoff games culminating in the first Ravens Super Bowl win, including a 5 for 16, 3 INT gem against the Titans.

So unless we're able to field a historically dominant defense and a really impactful special teams unit, we shouldn't kid ourselves into thinking we can win a Super Bowl without competent QB play, whether it's Rodgers, Love, or someone else.

7 points
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TarynsEyes's picture

July 05, 2021 at 11:33 am

The window is always open at the start of every season. The play and other happenings decide how much that window stays open like injuries, schedule, coaching, in-game adjustments, etc. The loss of Rodgers closes that window significantly whether one believes or denies it and the likelihood of Love being able to take over and play to a necessary level for the MLF offense and a new DC defense to appear secure is more unlikely than likely. I get the optimism though again it's blinding.

Can the Packers achieve a playoff level, sure, but the usual cakewalk isn't anymore, even with Rodgers back at the QB, and if Love is expected to obtain what Rodgers will struggle for, put the sunglasses on before permanent damage is done.

Can the Packers make it to a third NFCCG, possibly, but more unlikely than the presumed automatic Division Title, with or without Rodgers.

The win total for the Packers is 10.5.
Rodgers at QB I take the over.
Love at QB I take the under.

It's simple to deduce. I don't see 7 losses by a Rodgers-led team, I do see 7 losses with a Love-led team. I know many do also if it weren't for blind optimism.

!0 wins with Love in his first season as a starter would be a great start and would come more from the team picking him up than him picking up the team, which has been a forte' of Rodgers over the years, though being denied in a manner in this article, but failure in the 4NFCCG's has enough blame to place equally around, but it seems the Rodgers event this off-season has him being more the sole reason for all 4 losses.

The window is open. It's whether you can get through without what has been an issue for GB, the self-closing of it yearly themselves when the goal is at hand.

10 points
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Since'61's picture

July 05, 2021 at 01:59 pm

Perfect post Taryn! Thanks, Since '61

1 points
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CheesyTex's picture

July 05, 2021 at 02:58 pm

Nice.

-1 points
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Sapgooey's picture

July 05, 2021 at 11:40 am

Very well said!
Go Pack Go!

-1 points
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jont's picture

July 05, 2021 at 12:21 pm

Right now Love is the QB, the team is undefeated, and the SB window is open.

The window is also kind of far away. While you don't need a super QB to win the super bowl, the fact that we can name the average QBs who've won on one hand should tell us that a team needs an unusually good QB to be a real threat.

Love hasn't taken a snap in the NFL; his window might open in a couple years (if it opens at all).

1 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

July 05, 2021 at 12:48 pm

The breeze is blowing through Coach Matt's window too! He is a very good coach and has assembled a fine staff.

2 points
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White92's picture

July 05, 2021 at 01:06 pm

Well if they don't really need a top QB, why not trade him for a king's ransom and save the cap space? Save the drama. I suspect even the Packer front office don't agree with that.

4 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

July 05, 2021 at 01:24 pm

Ken wrote he hopes Rodgers comes back and honors the agreement HE signed. So do I.

The Packers are better with him. They are also better with Adams, Alexander, Jenkins, Bakht, Z, Kenny, AJ, Savage, Gary, Amos, Tonyan, et al, the new draft class, and solid depth at most positions.

The Packers need a good QB. It is the most important position. Everyone who understands football knows this.

But the same knowledgeable fans know it takes all 11 on the field to win. The best QBs often do not win SBs. The best TEAMS usually do.

4 points
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CheesyTex's picture

July 05, 2021 at 03:36 pm

Right on.

What bugs me the most is that the best TEAMS have leadership from the QB spot, and despite getting the lion's share of payroll, fan adulation, etc., #12 has chosen to take his personal gripe (whatever it may be) public. How now could he ever have his teammates believe he wants to lead them, the Packers, when his actions so loudly speak otherwise?

It still feels to me like #12 has dropped a franchise altering bomb on Packers fans.

But, maybe a miracle happens and #12 gives us 5 more years of MVP caliber play. Odds?

0 points
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Stroh's picture

July 06, 2021 at 12:57 am

Rodgers hasn't taken it public. He has in fact stated that he was frustrated that it ever became public. Quite listening to the media! There certainly is a disagreement between Rodgers and Packers mgmt, but neither side wanted it made public and Rodgers still hasn't stated what exactly his issues are against mgmt.

If Rodgers comes out and says that he wants out that will be dropping the bomb. But to date the only thing he has stated and he's stated it repeatedly, is that he wants to finish his career w/ the same team for his entire careeer!

There won't be a trade this season for sure, next season depends on quite a few things, not the least of which is Rodgers playing at near MVP levels.

My guess is he would like at least a couple years of his current contract guaranteed, but that is an educated guess. The Packers aren't really in position to add money to the contract for another 2 years. They have a very difficult cap situation this year and next and any more money added to his current contract will continue the cap problems even further into the future than just 2 years now. They can't afford more money to Rodgers and honestly Rodgers has been good about honoring his contract numbers in the past.

Rodgers is probably going to have to accept that he may not finish his career all w/ one team. Its appears the only way for the Packers to get some cap relief is for them to move Rodgers in the next 2 years.

0 points
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HarryHodag's picture

July 05, 2021 at 02:03 pm

(responding to White 92)

The reason they can't really trade him this year is they don't really save that much cap space, some, but they still would take a major cap hit. The team is already on thin cap ice.

The best picture for everyone is for Rodgers to show up to camp ready to play 100 percent this season. There is no denying his talent. The only thing I question is his motivation to help the Packers. If he isn't ready to play mentally, a lousy season for him is likely. But if he plays well he can easily get his wish next spring.

0 points
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TarynsEyes's picture

July 05, 2021 at 02:35 pm

As fans of the Packers berate Rodgers and call for letting him go in one breath they also demand that he come and play to his best for them, the team, and the FO with his reward being sent away. How does a professional come to terms with that scenario? Perhaps this is the issue for Rodgers? Is the FO willing to put into writing that they consent to his trade to a team he lists regardless of the seasons' outcome?

If you want my best, I'll want what's best for me guaranteed from you. It's amazing how many ways Rodgers can sabotage the season and still appear to be playing his best. Is he now a 'professional' who cannot be relied upon, since he is well aware of the disdain that has become the normal rants about him from the masses? Or is Rodgers now to be jeered at every incomplete pass, sack, or failure the team suffers believing he is sabotaging the season through vindiciveness? How would you be if in Rodgers' shoes?

0 points
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Stroh's picture

July 06, 2021 at 01:08 am

If they trade Rodgers this year, they would save about 20M on the cap IIRC. But a trade this year is not happening. Likely after this season or possibly in '23. He likes his teammates and coaches, not too mention the fans to not be all in for the Packers this year. He would also stand to permanently tarnish his GB legacy (which is extremely important to him).

Again next offseason is the most likely time to trade Rodgers and make everyone happy (except Rodgers) and maximize the Packers return for him. His #1 stated wish is to only play for one team his entire career. Drafting Love has made that very unlikely.

1 points
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Since'61's picture

July 05, 2021 at 02:44 pm

After all, "WE're not idiots." Murphy proclaimed. And yet the possibility of playing the season without our MVP/HOF QB is very real. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
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Stroh's picture

July 06, 2021 at 01:09 am

Rodgers is absolutely playing for GB this season! You simply do NOT understand the situation!

0 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

July 05, 2021 at 01:43 pm

All this talk of windows reminds me they are really freaking expensive regardless of whether they are open or closed. Unlike my house, none of the windows in Green Bay are painted shut. That's a huge pawsitive heading into training camp. Let's open some more windows and let the fresh air in!

Like Ken, I hope 12 shows up, but if he doesn't I'm still excited about this group of men. This is going to be a very good team.

4 points
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Since'61's picture

July 05, 2021 at 09:09 pm

Here's something to consider about getting back to an SB without a top tier QB. The Packers have played 24 seasons since they won the SB with Mike Holmgren and Ron Wolf. That team was probably the best Packers team since the Lombardi dynasty. They were the #1 offensive and #1 defensive team in 1996.

In the subsequent 24 seasons we have won one SB while playing with 2 first ballot HOF QBs. In 1996 in addition to our QB we had HOFer Reggie White on the defensive side of the team. In 2010 we had HOFer Charles Woodson on the defensive side of the team.

The premise of this article is that the QB does not play or win by himself. Congrats to the author who proves that he has a flair for the obvious.

The QB does not play by himself but he does need somebody to play with him to get the team over the hump. Besides Rodgers the current Packers roster has 3 potential future HOFers IMO. Bak, who will miss part of this season, Davante Adams and Jaire Alexander. Elgton Jenkins maybe, but its way too early in his career. My point is that it's very difficult to reach and win an SB with a few excellent players and many weaker players on the field around them.

We can claim that we have a top 5 OL, but they have been manhandled in the last 2 NFCCGs by our opponents DLs. After Adams our WRs don't scare anyone's defense so Adams gets double and triple coverage which nullifies his impact in the playoffs. Jones is a good/great back but his impact is diluted by halftime when the team is down by 2,3 scores or more at the half. Our defense, particularly the DL, even with Clark has been pushed all over the field by our opponents in the 2 most recent NFCCGs. Our pressure from the edge has been virtually non-existent despite the money spent on FAs to generate pressure on the QBs. Overall our DBs have played well except for King and Sullivan who were uncompetitive against the Bucs. Against SF it didn't matter since the 49ers only through the ball 8 times while they ran over, through and around the defense for 285 yards with their 3rd string RB! I like MLF as our HC but he has been badly outcoached in both NFCCGs and the lack of adjustments during those games is a major concern for going forward, especially without AR if it comes to that.

We can be optimistic about some of our younger players making leaps to improve their level of play and we can hype our draft picks until we're blue in the face but repeating over and over and over again that we are going to compete for a SB without Aaron Rodgers in 2021 doesn't make it so. The biggest problem that I see is that if Rodgers is gone either via trade or holdout who is going to be blamed for the Packers winning only 6 games or reaching the playoffs and flailing around helplessly if we don't have Rodgers to kick around anymore.

For all I know Love might be the second coming of Joe Montana or Troy Aikman. But even those guys only won one game in their rookie season. And they came out of legit college programs at the time. I think that we are going to see that Rodgers has covered up plenty of weaknesses in our roster (assuming he doesn't play) that Love is just not ready to do yet. The problem has been that when you reach the playoffs and play the better teams in the league those weaknesses get exposed and exploited (Kevin King and our OL by the Bucs and no DL/ILBs by the 49ers) and Rodgers can't cover for them by himself especially when he is not on the field.

I haven't even mentioned how poorly our STs have played during both the regular season and the playoffs. They have cost us field position and games and are another reason for the lack of SBs during 2 career HOF QBs. The QB doesn't win alone but he doesn't lose alone either. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
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arizonayahoo07@gmail.com's picture

July 05, 2021 at 02:58 pm

I remember The Farve/Rogers transition... And the hand wringing over turning the keys over to Arod.. If Farve would of stuck around with his buddies.. Jennings Driver, Clifton, Matthews, Woodson. and the rest.. It would have been Farve's 2nd SB ring.. But it was Roger's turn.. The 2011 season the pack won 15 lost 1... The game against NYG wound up being a Eli Manning's dream game. his QB rating was 114.5 compared to Arod's 78.5 . And Arod had 66 yards escape rushing. Compared to Grant /Stark's combined 76 yards.. Which means the NYG defense pretty much shut down GB offense enough to win.. Just like last years NFC championship game... The Bucs were better than GB offense and defense.. It sure as hell was not Brady's quarterbacking, more like SUH having his way.. Again..

2 points
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Qoojo's picture

July 05, 2021 at 03:08 pm

"combined with a top ten defense", only been working on that one for the past 10 years. Otherwise, great plan.

3 points
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mbpacker's picture

July 05, 2021 at 05:03 pm

When one window closes another opens! Go Pack Go!

0 points
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GGROSS1963's picture

July 06, 2021 at 01:34 pm

Thank you for being someone who hasn't forgotten that football is a team sport! As you pointed out, it takes more than a qb to make the Superbowl! I do not want to see Aaron go, but if he does, life and football move on.
If I remember correctly, he didn't have such a great year in his first start.

Bravo on the writing!

0 points
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