Packers Draft Preview, Part 2 (Defense): Mike Pettine’s Modern Mongol Horde

In this series, we preview the draft from the eyes of the people who make football decisions for the Packers. In 2016 and 2017, we saw the view from Ted Thompson's suite. This year, we switch perspectives to the coaches—the commanders on the ground.

Football has a military tradition, and football strategies are rooted in military history. We'll discuss the Packers coaches' strategies in that context. Today's Part 1 looks at the Packer offense through Mike McCarthy's eyes, discussing the equipment he needs for his guerilla forces and the 2018 draft prospects who are fit for service. In Part 2 today, we turn to Mike Pettine's defensive strategy: a plan that calls for frying modern quarterbacks' circuitry, then laying siege with a Mongol horde.

The Birth of Mike Pettine's "Modern Mongol Horde" Strategy

In the 1990s, NFL defenses were in retreat. Most defenses were built to stop conventional offensive attacks like the Dallas Cowboys, who relied on overwhelming ground assaults coupled with long-range bombing campaigns. To stop them, conventional defenses had slow, rugged linebackers good for battle against conventional offenses' slow, rugged fullbacks and tight ends. But as the 1990s progressed, more offenses abandoned conventional warfare in favor of the guerrilla tactics Bill Walsh perfected in Cincinnati and San Francisco. Rather than "shock and awe" campaigns with deep strikes and bulky ground forces, guerrilla offenses pummeled opponents with a barrage of short-range passes to shifty, durable receivers. The conventional defenses' slow linebackers weren't built to win a guerrilla war.

Defensive commandeers looked for new ways to wipe out the guerrillas. In Pittsburgh, Dick LeBeau's armies napalmed the battlefield by using short zones to flood the guerillas' favorite target area: the short middle of the field. LeBeau's former apprentice, Dom Capers, used the same strategy in Carolina.

The Ravens' defensive coordinator, Marvin Lewis, had a different war plan. Lewis knew guerrilla offenses' vulnerabilities; he'd served as an assistant to Paul Hacket, a Bill Walsh discipline, at the University of Pittsburgh. Lewis would not fight the guerillas with conventional weapons or modern-age specialties like speed rushers or coverage linebackers. Instead, Lewis wanted to build an army fit to route the guerrillas: a bloodthirsty Mongol horde.

Siege weapons like Tony Siragusa, the Ravens big defensive tackle, would ram the guerrilla offenses' smaller blockers from the interior. The Ravens forced opponents to brace the gates and use four blockers against three defensive linemen. Next, Lewis sent heavy explosives like Rob Burnett and Peter Boulware around opponent's flanks, blowing up other blockers. With the guerrillas' small blockers all fighting for their lives, war horse linebackers like Ray Lewis were free to stalk the battlefield, hunting for ball carriers. To prevent receivers from sneaking deep amidst the onslaught at the line of scrimmage, Lewis used tracking hounds like Duane Starks and Chris McAllister as cornerbacks. Lewis' horde routed guerrilla armies and conventional ones too. His 2000 defense surrendered only 10 points a game, and the Ravens won the Super Bowl.

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But the guerillas had already perfected a new technology to defeat the hordes, and everyone else. In Kansas City, Hackett and assistant Mike McCarthy had achieved breakthroughs with artificial intelligence for quarterbacks. They developed a system that would automatically tell quarterbacks where to attack before the ball was even snapped, based on nothing more than the pre-snap positioning of the enemy forces. One the software was successfully installed in a normal quarterback, he became a Robo QB. McCarthy's first test subject in Kansas City, Rich Gannon, transformed into a league MVP.

Other QB programmers copied the algorithm, ushering in the Age of the Robo QBs. Quarterbacks broke the long-held touchdown pass records, and the Ravens could no longer stop them. In 2002, McCarthy and Robo QB Aaron Brooks scored 37 points against Baltimore. The next year, Mike Holmgren and Robo QB Matt Hasselbeck scored 41. The Ravens' medieval horde was no match for modern cyborg quarterbacks.

In 2005, new Ravens defensive coordinator Rex Ryan and assistant Mike Pettine came up with a plan to stop the rise of the Robo QBs. They would fry the quarterbacks' circuitry, by feeding them bad data in pre-snap reads. The Robo QBs would see an attack coming from an overloaded field on one side, and their pre-snap algorithm would tell them a safe location where they could go with the ball. But after the snap, Ryan and Pettine wouldn't bring the attack from the overloaded side. Instead, they'd attack the very location of the Robo QBs' algorithm told them to go. The Robo QBs couldn't trust their programming against the Ravens' defense, and it caused a system meltdown.

Once Ryan and Pettine figured out how to short Robo QBs' circuits, the Ravens' Mongol horde once again began laying waste to NFL offenses. In 2006, they gave up 12 points a game. Ryan and Pettine left Baltimore to build a "modern" Mongol horde for the Jets, and their first army there gave up only 14 a game. Pettine was hired to build his own army in Buffalo in 2013; the next year, he was hired as head coach in Cleveland. The first year, his defense was ninth in the league. The next year, his cornerbacks got hurt, his quarterback flamed out, and Pettine was fired. He went into exile for a year and spent the last season doing side projects for Pete Carroll in Seattle.

In January, Mike McCarthy hired Pettine to build a modern Mongol horde in Green Bay.

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DEFENSIVE TACKLES

"The Battering Ram" and "The War Elephant"

OVERVIEW: Modern-age NFL defenses use precision weapons along the defensive line. They employ quick players, like laser-cutting defensive tackle Aaron Donald, to shoot gaps off the snap. But a Mongol horde like Pettine's has no need for precision. Pettine uses blunt-force interior linemen who barrel into enemy blockers and force them to brace the gates.

At defensive tackle, Pettine uses two types of units. The standard-issue unit is a battering ram who can get low and grapple with hulking guards. Pettine's battering rams aren't trying to escape blocks and make a break for the backfield, at least on running downs. They are just trying to win the wrestling match with their blockers, and keep him from harassing anyone else. Pettine's past battering rams included Kelly Gregg in Baltimore, Mike DeVito with the Jets, and Kyle Williams in Buffalo.

The second unit, the war elephant, is harder to find. Pettine's war elephants have been giants like Haloti Ngata (6'4", 345), Kenrick Ellis (6'5", 346), and Danny Shelton (6'2", 335). Those monsters do not merely tie up one blocker, like the battering rams. They're large enough to demand the attention of two.

ROSTER OUTLOOK: Pettine has two first-class battering rams in Mike Daniels and Kenny Clark. Both were high school wrestling champs who can get low and grapple. The only other defensive tackle on the roster, Montravious Adams, isn't a battering ram or a war elephant. He's a modern-age gap-shooter left over from Dom Capers' defense. Pettine will have to decide whether to jettison Adams or teach him to wrestle in the trenches.

DRAFT OUTLOOK: This draft offers the rarest of species, a true war elephant. If the Packers miss out on him, then Pettine may want to take another battering ram later. Let's start with the war elephant, the Monster of Milpitas, California:

            VITA VEA, Washington. Vea frightened teens as a 260-pound running back in high school. Then, he hit his growth spurt. He's now 6'4", 350, and he can still move—Vea ran the 40-yard dash in 5.1 seconds, about as fast as linemen who are 50 pounds lighter. War elephants like Vea are rarely seen in the wild, and he'll likely be gone before the Packers' first choice at pick 14. But if he slides down the board, Pettine's eyes will light up at the prospect of starting his new medieval army with Vea on the front line.

            DEADRIN SENAT, South Florida. At 6'0", 314, Senat is the right size for service as a battering ram. He's strong, with 35 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press at the Combine (just six fewer than Vea). He missed a couple games with targeting ejections, which might bother some other teams. But Pettine is building a medieval horde in Green Bay, and he'll accept bloodthirsty recruits.

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DEFENSIVE END

"The Siege Tower"

OVERVIEW: In his base defense, Pettine uses one defensive end. That defensive end isn't an explosive pass rusher—we'll get to those in a moment—but rather a siege tower, used to tie up the offense's best tackle and move him out of the linebackers' way. Siege tower defensive ends are tall, long-armed Goliaths like Shaun Ellis, who was Pettine's first siege tower with the Jets.

ROSTER OUTLOOK: This offseason the Packers signed Muhammad Wilkerson, who replaced Ellis as Pettine’s siege tower in New York. Wilkerson fits the dimensions for the role: 6’4”, 315 pounds with arms that are 35 inches long, just the right length for grabbing and controlling offensive tackles. Dean Lowry’s arms are only 31 inches, so he’s not suited for the role. Lowry will have to fight for snaps as a rusher in nickel packages.

DRAFT OUTLOOK: Wilkerson’s only signed for a year, and good siege towers can be expensive. The Packers may want to use one of their late round picks on a project who fits the spec sheet for the job, but has some more learning to do. This draft has one of those:

            HASTON ADAMS, Mary Hardin-Baylor. Scouts turn over every rock looking for siege towers, and Adams has the tools for the job: 6’5”, 295 with 34-inch arms. Adams treated inferior competition the way a pro prospect should, with nearly 60 tackles for loss in college, and he’ll surely get bigger with a pro strength and conditioning program. He’ll need at least a year to lift and learn, so he’s unlikely to be drafted until the late rounds. If his development goes well, he may be ready to replace Wilkerson when his one-year contract expires.

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OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS

"The Heavy Explosives"

OVERVIEW: With the siege tower tying up the team’s best tackle, Pettine can attack around the offense’s flanks. To make those attacks, Pettine doesn’t want precision explosives like the Bears’ Leonard Floyd or T.J. Watt—both guys who knife through blockers with their tall, lanky frames. Pettine prefers old-fashioned barrels of dynamite, shorter and stockier pass rushers who can blast tight ends and weaker tackles and make a boom. Terrell Suggs and Adalius Thomas, the 2006 Ravens’ outside linebackers, are the prototypes.

ROSTER OUTLOOK: Nick Perry is about the same size as Suggs and Thomas (6’3”, 265) and he packs a punch. He’s an ideal heavy explosive. Clay Matthews is a half-size too small, and his playing style is closer to the smart-guided missiles that Pettine avoids. Kyler Fackrell was supposed to be a precision weapon like Floyd and Watt, not fit for regular duty in Pettine’s horde. Vince Biegel is an explosive, but not a heavy one. He’s 20 pounds lighter than Perry.

DRAFT OUTLOOK: This draft has the right kind of incendiary for a Dark Ages defense:

            HERCULES MATA’AFA, Washington State. Like Adalius Thomas, Mata’afa wreaked havoc as an undersized 255-pound defensive tackle in college. Last year, facing off against Pac-12 interior linemen who had 50 pounds on him, Mata’afa blasted into backfields for more than 20 tackles for loss. He’ll last until the middle rounds because he’s never played outside linebacker before. But Pettine was Thomas’s position coach with the Ravens, so he knows that a DT-to-OLB position switch can work. Just like Thomas, Mata’afa attacks blockers like his hair is on fire.

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INSIDE LINEBACKERS

"The War Horses"

OVERVIEW: With offenses’ blockers under siege up front, Pettine’s inside linebackers are free to attack. Pettine doesn’t use the big run-game Howitzers like Pepper Johnson of the ‘80s Giants, who remain out-of-style for most defenses. Nor does he use modern drones, zippy little guys like Deion Jones of the Falcons. Instead, he employs cavalry units—slower than the new-age linebackers, but better armored and heavier tacklers. Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, and David Harris all stalked battlefields as war horses for Ryan and Pettine’s modern Mongol hordes.

ROSTER OUTLOOK: With 94 tackles last year, Blake Martinez seems ready for duty as a war horse. Jake Ryan moves too stiffly in the open field, and too often gets tangled up in traffic.

DRAFT OUTLOOK: Pettine needs more war horses, and there are two for sale at different stages of the draft.

            DARIUS LEONARD, South Carolina State. Leonard had almost 400 career tackles at the FCS level, and he kept it up against bigger blockers. He had 19 tackles and a blocked field goal against Clemson, and another 14 tackles in the Senior Bowl. The guy likes to hunt. He’s also better-suited for passing-down duty in nickel packages than Martinez, who got picked on by opposing quarterbacks last year. Leonard may last until the third or fourth round, because he’s not one of the new, modern-age inside linebackers with wide-receiver speed, and because his armor is a little light (234 pounds). Leonard might add more in a pro-level strength program.

            JACK CICHY, Wisconsin. When healthy, Cichy set backfields ablaze. He had nine tackles and three sacks in a single half in the 2015 Holiday Bowl against USC, and 15 tackles the next fall against Ohio State. Cichy isn’t a sleek new breed of linebacker, and he’ll drop even further than Leonard due to injury concerns. After his big performances, Cichy tore his pectoral, then his knee, and hasn’t played since. But his athletic testing numbers at the Badgers’ pro day looked OK, and the Packers have extra late-round picks to spare.

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SAFETIES

"The Mounted Archers"

OVERVIEW: Sometimes, a receiver will catch a pass behind the scorched-earth destruction at the line of scrimmage. When that happens, Pettine needs his mounted archers at safety to swarm. Pettine doesn’t use hybrid cornerbacks or lurking ball-hawks. In his defense, corners cover and safeties tackle. Pettine’s safeties are just smaller versions of his war horses at inside linebacker: guys who can slice through traffic and bullseye their targets on the nose.

ROSTER OUTLOOK: The 220-pound Josh Jones is bloodthirsty enough to serve in Pettine’s horde. He was too unreliable for action last year, but Pettine’s coaches will work hard to ensure he doesn’t go to waste. Ha Ha Clinton-Dix mentally checked-out last year, but he’ll find service as a mounted archer for Pettine far more fun than his responsibilities in Capers’ complex schemes. Marwin Evans has the right size and temperament. He’s not athletic enough for starting duty, but he has depth value. Kentrell Brice and Jermaine Whitehead are too small for regular duty in Pettine’s horde.

DRAFT OUTLOOK: Pettine could use another safety, because Jones is uncertain and Clinton-Dix is a free agent after the season. There is a suitable mounted archer waiting for Pettine in the middle rounds:

            DANE CRUIKSHANK, Arizona. If Pettine’s position coaches are going to be starting from scratch with Jones, they may as well pull up a chair for Cruikshank. He’s a one-size smaller version of Jones, with all the same athleticism and hard hitting, and all the same breakdowns in coverage. But if Pettine can re-program them on the basics of his defense, then his 2019 horde could include the fastest and most vicious pair of starting safeties in the league. If not, then Cruikshank will have value smacking returners on special teams.

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CORNERBACKS

"The Wolves" and "The Hounds"

OVERVIEW: Pettine’s marauding horde of destruction has but one weakness: its focus on attack weapons leaves it vulnerable to intermediate and deep passes. If quarterbacks manage to find time in the pocket—and there will always be plays when they do—then Pettine must rely on his cornerbacks to protect the homeland. Weak cornerbacks destroy his battle plans. In 2007, both the Ravens’ starting cornerbacks missed significant time with injury. Their ferocious defense, which held teams to an NFL-best 12 points a game the year before, fell to 22nd in the league.

To minimize the risks of disaster, Pettine relies on first-class man-cover cornerbacks, in two sizes: the wolves and the hounds. The larger wolves handle opponents’ big bomb-threat receivers on the outside, the Julio Joneses and A.J. Greens of the league. The smaller hounds handle the zippier prey who zigzag across the middle of the field, guys like Brandin Cooks. All of Pettine’s canines must be superb athletes who can stay on receivers’ tails, and catch up if they are fooled. Slower zone corners need not apply.

ROSTER OUTLOOK: Kevin King is an aspiring wolf, with 6’3” size and excellent speed—everything he needs to stick with the best and biggest outside receivers, or the big slot targets like the Vikings’ Adam Thielen. Davon House is an aging wolf who can’t track and recover like King, but he can handle lower-caliber deep threats outside. Among the hounds, the Packers signed veteran tracker Tramon Williams to a two-year deal, joining unproven holdovers Josh Hawkins and Herb Waters. Williams is savvy, but at his age he may not be able to keep up with the most explosive target he’ll face in the NFC North, the Vikings’ Stefon Diggs.

DRAFT OUTLOOK: Pettine could use a top-rate tracking hound and a developmental wolf to replace House after his one-year deal expires. This draft has both:

            JAIRE ALEXANDER, Louisville. Alexander was made for hounding Stefon Diggs. He is 5’10”, 196—around the same size as Diggs—but Alexander is one speed faster and just as shifty and aggressive. He was slowed last year with a sprained knee, but unlike Damarious Randall in Green Bay, Alexander fought through injury to help the team. He’s clearly healthy now: Alexander ran a 4.38 40-yard dash at the scouting combine, and had some of the best agility drill times of any similarly sized corner. He’s a first-round talent, and should still be available for the Packers at 14.

But if 345-pound war elephant Vita Vea falls into the Packers’ lap at 14 (ouch!), then Alexander will be gone by the time the Packers pick again in the second round. They’ll still have their choice of a couple acceptable hounds. LSU’s Donte Jackson and Alabama’s Anthony Averett are both are as fast as Alexander, but they’ll go later in the draft because they’re 15 pounds lighter and more susceptible to being knocked around.

            MICHAEL JOSEPH, Dubuque. Yes, Dubuque. Joseph didn’t face elite receivers when lining up against the likes of Luther College, Nebraska Wesleyan, or crosstown rival Loras. But Joseph has the 6’1” height and athleticism needed for deflecting deep bombs as an outside corner in the NFL, and he grabbed eight interceptions last year. Cornerbacks coach Joe Whitt will have a lot of work ahead of him with Joseph, who never needed proper technique to make plays in the Iowa Conference. But Whitt has had success with blank canvasses like college receiver Sam Shields. With House back for another year, Whitt will have time to train an aspiring wolf in Joseph.

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            Enjoy the draft, everyone. Hope to see you again next year.

You can view Part 1 of Matt's "Guerrilla Warfare" series on Mike McCarthy's offensive foundations here

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Comments (59)

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Bert's picture

April 25, 2018 at 09:05 am

Matt I enjoy your creative style and analogies. Good stuff and thanks. Maybe you should write an article specific to the coaching staff. I kinda liken MM to a Polish dueling pistol sometimes.

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4thand1's picture

April 25, 2018 at 09:11 am

1 DAY 9 HOURS 49 MINUTES

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Royalty Free GM's picture

April 25, 2018 at 10:28 am

GREEN BAY PACKERS will definitely draft WR RIDLEY with their first pick.

Edge is not our biggest need, because we kept overpaid Matthews. When you fire Matthews, then you draft edge.

Cornerback is a need, but CB draft is so deep this year that we can get very good corner(s) at round 2-3.

WR need is a BIG. Gute fired Jordy. WR Ridley goes 12th-16th in most mock drafts, so he will be perfect BPA for Packers. He will be a truly offensive weapon we haven’t had since great #84 Sharpe! Multiple probowls coming. Let’s once make our offense so strong that our opponents have to start drafting against it.

We will see soon, if Brian “TT” Gutekunst follows predecessor’s cowardly steps and keep selecting defense. Maybe he has guts to make this team Superbowl winner by drafting WR with the first pick...

Brian “TT” or “Guts” Gutekunst?

Packers will look so silly in coming years, if they let this rare opportunity to slip away. Otherwise Ridley will demolish Packers in future playoffs (Cardinals or Cowboys).

Make the wisest decision and draft Ridley!
It’s time stop being defensive all the time. It’s time to attack!!

GREEN & GOLD !

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Cubbygold's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:21 am

nah

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Since'61's picture

April 25, 2018 at 10:59 am

Tick, tick, tick. Thanks, Since '61

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Lare's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:35 am

"1 DAY 9 HOURS 49 MINUTES"

That's about how long it took to read this article.

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DetroitSUCKS's picture

April 25, 2018 at 09:22 am

So desperately need a DT , that guy with a hand in the dirt who commands a double team. Haven't had one since the last SB run and they let him walk via fa..Hate to say it but was hoping they would make a play for Suh as much as I despise his actions the guy is darn good...

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4thand1's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:31 am

REALLY? Clark is ascending, Daniels is a load, DT is our biggest strength. Vea would be a steal at 14 though BPA.

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Oppy's picture

April 25, 2018 at 12:39 pm

Ryan Pickett commanded a double every snap, and he was an excellent NT.

Mike Daniels is a nightmare for opposing linemen and he must be accounted for.

Kenny Clark is a beast and that young man is going to be a fine NT, even at his weight, because he's so strong.

I always had great respect for Cullen "big sexy" Jenkins. He was a real handful. But to completely overlook guys like Pickett, Daniels, and Clark is surprising.

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

April 25, 2018 at 05:39 pm

Pickett was an excellent end too. When Raji and Pickett where there teams needed to double team one and sometimes chip the other. It really helped Matthews and Jenkins.

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holmesmd's picture

April 25, 2018 at 07:05 pm

You mean like Clark & Daniels?! What are you talking about?

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Cubbygold's picture

April 25, 2018 at 09:51 am

Very interesting article, thanks for putting this together. I'll be checking back here to see if GB gets any of these less well known prospects that suit these various roles.

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

April 25, 2018 at 09:52 am

I like this article, "it's metaphorical!"

"safeties tackle", Well Haha can count himself out if that is the case.

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porupack's picture

April 25, 2018 at 10:14 am

Thanks Matt. Enjoyed both articles. Could you write one more before the draft? You are the General shopping for weaponry, with limited budget; where do you invest your budget if you are to get both; your gueriilla and Mongol force to the biggest turnaround in 2018 and 2019?
Which units do you make the biggest investment (rounds 1-5), biggest upgrade? Can you make a mock that accomplishes both guerilla and Mongol force? Just curious how you view priorities to get the job done.

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Matt Lynch's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:06 am

I'd love to try. But because of the uncertainty of who's available when, you'd have to set it up as a decision tree (if this, then that; if that, then this). With 200-some picks in the draft, the number of branches in that tree could get out of control in a hurry. For the sake of my wife, I should probably avoid the temptation to take on that project.

I can, however, tell you the first branch, as you can probably guess from my article: if Vea's there, take him. If not, there are two choices: (1) take Alexander, either at 14 or after a short trade-down; or (2) trade down further, acquiring more ammunition in the second/third/fourth round area - where a lot of the other guys identified in this series will go.

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Cubbygold's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:15 am

So new game plan... trade up to get Vea, trade back into the first to get Alexander, spend day two of the draft giggling about the weapons they just added

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Matt Lynch's picture

April 27, 2018 at 12:42 am

Ok, with Vea gone before 14 and Alexander drafted after what netted out to be a short trade-down, here's the next branch for Day 2.

The Packers want to end day 2 with two of the following three players: Austin Corbett, Anthony Miller, and Darius Leonard. There are two ways that plays out, depending on whether Corbett is available at the Packers' second round pick.

(1) if Corbett is available, pick him. Try to trade back into the third for Leonard or Miller, unless their analysis of other teams' needs and draft boards tells them that one of those two players will last through the end of day two. (The Packers have the first pick of day three.)

(2) if Corbett is not available, trade back and attempt to pick up a third (or the ammunition to move into the third). With the trade-down pick, take Miller or Leonard, whoever they believe is least likely to last deep into the third. (Probably Miller.) Then, use the acquired third-round pick to take the other player (probably Leonard), unless their analysis of other teams' draft boards tells them that the player will be there when the Packers pick first on day three.

(I told you this decision tree would get complicated fast.)

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Packer_Fan's picture

April 25, 2018 at 10:48 am

I liked this article. Getting past the metaphors, it is an article that makes more sense to me. All of the pundits look at the best players and try to stuff them into what the Packers need. This article attempts to choose players that fits the defensive plan, which to me is more accurate. Tomorrow the draft will tell all.

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Cubbygold's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:10 am

Well said. It makes me think about how different the discussions must be inside the packers war room compared to the talking heads on TV. Talking about the types of guys they need, the physical characteristics...this is how future pro-bowlers get drafted in later rounds. They fit the need of the team and are positioned in a way to play to their strengths.

I also just realized that Gruden won't be on TV this year telling us how much he loves every single pick. It'd be awesome to have an analyst who talks about how the picks fit into the system and what the team will be looking for him to do and why.

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:23 am

Gruden can be insufferable sometimes but he had a great games commenting on Packers, especially Capers D.

He knew what Capers would call on so many plays it was hilarious.

Gruden: "Ok, third and long here. Capers will play a soft zone and won't blitz, just rush 4. This is a perfect time to call a screen pass."

Screen pass was the call and you guessed it...first down.

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Cubbygold's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:27 am

haha, yeah I don't mind him in the booth. I just have a vague memory of him starting every draft commentary with "I love this pick".

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:16 am

Good article.

I see General Lynch has settled on Vea as his 1st rounder at 14. (I think Alexander would be a huge reach at 14)

Edmunds and Smith are ideal war horses who are outstanding tacklers with sideline to sideline range who can rush the QB. Smith is 235 lbs but packs a wallop and loves to do it. Edmunds has a huge upside and size to put on 20-30 lbs and play at 260-270 lbs.

Both Fitzpatrick and James are ideal mounted archers who attacked from all over the field, are prolific tacklers and can cover in the slot.

Also something to consider...Pettine as often or more so uses 3 safeties in nickel vs 3 CBs. So he does want coverage ability in his safeties too.

Ward is an ideal hound at CB to take away the top receiver.

Not a word on fan favorite Landry or Davenport either. Do they not fit the Mongol Horde?

Perhaps General Lynch could write an article on the top D prospects and where they fit in the Mongol Horde of Pettine.

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Since'61's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:19 am

Matt I appreciate your metaphor approach to draft analysis. Of course in actual war there are no rules while the NFL has skewed their rulebook to favor of the offense which renders some of the defensive weapons less effective if not obsolete.

In any case the Packers biggest need as a team and specifically on defense, is to improve their pass rush. That is the one area where the correct player selected can make the most significant impact in the shortest amount of time. Therefore, IMO one the top edge rushers should be chosen in the 1st round if they are still available when the Packers select. Even the best CBs will take time to adjust to the NFL and this draft is deep with CBs so we take a few in the later rounds. WRs and OLs can be added later as well.

If I'm Pettine and I want to improve the defense as quick as possible I ask Gute to give me a top tier edge rusher from the first round of the draft. Thanks, Since '61

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:30 am

The only Edge rusher that is a top 14 talent is Chubb. And I would be overjoyed if Gute move up with Oakland at 10 if he fell there.

Landry and Davenport are mid to late 1st round talents and drafting them 14 would be a needy reach.

Another thought too...both Smith and Edmunds were very good rushing the QB from a variety of spots...something Pettine loves to do to confuse the robo QBs.

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Finwiz's picture

April 25, 2018 at 12:04 pm

I'd go up to get Chubb if he started to slip out of the top 5.
Doubt it will happen, but you never know with so many QB's in the mix.

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Finwiz's picture

April 25, 2018 at 12:03 pm

>In any case the Packers biggest need as a team and specifically on defense, is to improve their pass rush. <

Quite a few around these parts don't understand the accuracy of this.
Exactly correct.

>>Even the best CBs will take time to adjust to the NFL and this draft is deep with CBs<<

No doubt

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Since&#039;61's picture

April 25, 2018 at 01:35 pm

Fin - to me an improved pass rush not only improves the front 7 but also improves our pass coverage as well. Which in effect improves the entire pass defense. Plus a pass rusher has one priority, which is to get the QB, thus their role is not as complex to learn compared with a CB or ILB.

Get the QB or get him to throw off balance or make a bad throw and we win that down. Make OCs adjust to a premier pass rusher and someone else should get through to the QB.

IMO, it’s the quickest path to improving our defense. Add a solid CB or preferably two and our defense becomes competitive enough to contribute to winning games and easing the pressure on Rodgers and the offense to score 30+ points a game every week.

If in fact the top pass rushers are gone then we can go CB or game break WR, but I would likely to solve the pass rush as early in the draft as possible. Thanks, Since ‘61

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porupack's picture

April 26, 2018 at 11:14 am

I agree w Since61 to get the best pass rusher possible at 14.

Don't get obsessed with "reach" and "value" and overthink.

If you like a player who can upgrade a unit, who cares if pundits rank that player value at 14th or 18th or 28th. If you want the player, get him at 14th, because you don't really have much chance until 32 picks later.

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Big Moe's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:28 am

Vita Vea as a PACKER would be sweet!
but I'd be happy with Jackson, or Fitzpatrick as well.
Can't wait to see how the draft plays out, Go Pack!

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4thand1's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:36 am

A dominant DL makes an average LBer better. If Vea is there take him, there's nothig better than pressure up the middle.

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Handsback's picture

April 25, 2018 at 11:47 am

Matt, what a great write-up. Now let's talk OLBs, you mentioned Suggs and Thomas from the Ravens as dynamite guys which they were. If I'm not mistaken....Thomas was 6-3 or 6-4 and a very large 270 Lbs and Suggs was 6-3 or 6-4. Hercules is between 6-1 to 6-2, is that a good comparison? Thomas was All-Pro at both Baltimore and New England and I can't tell you how many times Suggs was an All-Pro. I think a better comparison of OLB for your description would be Edmunds, Landry, Okoronkwo, or even Nwosu from USC.

I think the best take from your article is that there will be some personnel turnover in Green Bay on the defensive side with Pettine's system. Also sounds like Clay would be great as one of the ILBs.

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4thand1's picture

April 25, 2018 at 12:08 pm

We need the real Hercules and the jawbone of an ass.

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Cubbygold's picture

April 25, 2018 at 12:16 pm

I'm curious about Clay's role as well, didn't sound like he fits the scheme. If that was the case, they should have cut him and targeted someone that fit better in FA. Maybe that option wasn't available. Maybe they want one year to see if he fits, if so give him an extension, if not move on next year.

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CJ Bauckham's picture

April 25, 2018 at 01:53 pm

My understanding/inference is that Pettine intends to use him as a roving chess piece, similar to a few years ago when he was playing both ilb and olb

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4thand1's picture

April 25, 2018 at 01:19 pm

1 DAY 5 HOURS 50 MINUTES

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Cubbygold's picture

April 25, 2018 at 01:49 pm

you're killing me

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4thand1's picture

April 25, 2018 at 02:05 pm

1 DAY 4 HOURS 55 MINUTES

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Since&#039;61's picture

April 25, 2018 at 05:21 pm

Tick, tick, tick. Thanks, Since ‘61

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kevgk's picture

April 25, 2018 at 01:50 pm

This has given me more info about what directions the Packers might take regard the draft and defense outlook, than ANYTHING else I have read online. I really appreciate going into the history of the offense and defense styles too!

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4thand1's picture

April 25, 2018 at 02:06 pm

CHTV ROCKS

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PatrickGB's picture

April 25, 2018 at 03:12 pm

I had 8 years in a combat zone and love history.
Good article. Even the badly mixed metaphors were fun to read.
In warfare the battlefield can be compared to "rules". Its the boundaries that one must operate in. Also, the talent that one has should dictate the battle plan which you covered well.
Issues arise in combat that must also be properly dealt with. Resupply, command and control and of course communication.

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Finwiz's picture

April 25, 2018 at 04:31 pm

Thanks for your service.

What branch, if I may ask?

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Minniman's picture

April 26, 2018 at 04:45 am

Dare I add to this, know your opponents strengths and weaknesses and preferentially engage them at your strength rather than theirs.

although what's that great Mike Tyson quote: "everyone's got a plan.... till they get punched in the face"

As many have posted previously, this draft will most certainly give an insight into how the pack are going to reset their defensive strategy. this is probably going to be one of the most intriguing outputs from this years draft for me - along with which teams in the packers next years schedule bolster their O-Lines with early picks (as it seems that the official new fad in the NFL is a loaded D-line).

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Finwiz's picture

April 26, 2018 at 08:15 am

Rumors are flying ALL over, from numerous sources, the Packers are talking about moving UP to get Derwin James.

Gawd, I hope not. Another "tweener" they will have to train to play both CB, slot and safety depending on the package. I really don't get the fascination with these position switches, no matter how athletic these guys are. There's a big difference between the SEC and the NFL.

Ian Rappaport reporting the Packers are among the teams talking about moving up. To get whom exactly, is the question.
Please let it be EDGE.

Vita Vea and Derwin James both came in for a visit to GB. Ward did not.

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 25, 2018 at 05:22 pm

Watch James highlight video and you will likely change your view. He would play S in GB. Most Ds play mostly nickel and Pettine’s nickel often has 3 safties vs 3CBs. And he is a devastating tackler. Could be woodson 2.0...only bigger.

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Finwiz's picture

April 26, 2018 at 08:18 am

I hear you, I like his skill level, but he's better near the LOS, and less of a cover DB. I like Minkah's quickness a bit better, and I think he covers better too, but they are both safeties first.

It isn't that I don't like them, it's the fact we don't need a Safety like we need a CB or more pass rush. I want a guy that doesn't come off the field and can play immediately.

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kevgk's picture

April 26, 2018 at 09:19 am

what we need is whatever Gute and Pettine thinks we need. Who knows what they think we have at edge rushers. Maybe they think Edmunds is their guy? We also don't have a good deep safety, Haha didn't do a great job at that last year.

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dobber's picture

April 26, 2018 at 09:44 am

That's just it. We really only have what Pettine worked with in the past as any real indication of what he's planning for this fall. It could surprise us who the Packers decide to roll with in this draft, and I have to believe that there have been plenty of closed-door discussions featuring MM/GB/Pettine trying to get to the root of what he really needs to have.

I would be shocked if Pettine says that adding Wilkerson and TWill/House is enough and he'll just take value picks when they come up.

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Finwiz's picture

April 26, 2018 at 10:06 am

I hear you kevgk regading Clinton-Dix, but given his performance in prior years, I'm looking at 2017 as the anomaly, and he'll be fine with better coaching and a fresher scheme.

That aside, I wouldn't be surprised, or terribly unhappy if they moved up to take James or Fitzpatrick. I think the price to get either of them will be less than to move and get Ward. I think the 3 of them are very close in relative skill level anyway. None of these guys are Charles Woodsen IMO, but nobody knows for sure at this point.

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 26, 2018 at 10:31 am

I think too many blame the poor pass D on ineffective CBs last year. I think the Safety play was equally to blame for the poor pass pro. To say we “need” a CB far more than a Safety is not accurate, IMO.

What will benefit the Pack will be drafting excellent DBs, S or CB who had prolific college careeers.

If the Pack was to draft either Ward, James or Fitzpatrick, I would be very jazzed, although I favor Fitzpatrick.

Pettine would absoutely find ways to keep HHCD, JJ and Fitz on the field for 3 downs. I think HHCD is going to have a huge rebound year and absolutely love Pettine’s D strategies and tactics.

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stockholder's picture

April 25, 2018 at 06:50 pm

I discussed yesterday that football was more like the civil war. First: Crucial Reinforcements! IT WILL STOP ANY FIERCE ASSULT. Many battles are won. Reinforcing a defense quickly! The defense currently is at a disadvantage. Tactics should be more than Courage and Tenacity! Discipline is still the best way to train. So lets look at the recruit possibilities. NT Vita Vea will be a Force by himself. You want push! This guy has it! Most are saying he'll be Nagata. But let's not get carried away looking for a bargain instead. Wilkerson is 6'4 315. So it's the Beef here you want! OLB- I'm talking Carter here! Carter is the next Mathews! Not Landry and not Davenport. ILB. Smith is my Man. A leader for the defense. But Mathews still could be moved to ILB. Safety - Reid if he falls! CB- Draft by Committee here. Small school guys are just as fast. The treasure of the draft! Conclusion: Vea and Carter are the perfect reinforcements!

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Minniman's picture

April 26, 2018 at 05:47 am

I'm still getting my head around the possibility of actually watching plays where the packers line up Vea, Clark, Daniels and Wilkerson as one unit!

That said, I'm also trying to play armchair OC and design plays to counter this group in order to ascertain if this is just a chatroom folly or actually could be viable (given the packers relative position strengths at other defensive positions - namely secondary).

An up-tempo, short and sharp passing game that attacks the seam is going to be most effective against this front. Pass catching RB option plays

Although drafting Vea and Carter 1 and 2 could mean injuries to this Front 7 would leave GB's present secondary exposed though (as they'd be less effective in hurrying the QB).

It really does hinge on if Mike Pettine thinks that the young secondary is actually better than previously thought and doesn't need a high pick plug-and-play addition to function satisfactorily.

Either way, the packers round 1 pick should be a day 1 starter, not a project.

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Cubbygold's picture

April 26, 2018 at 07:42 am

That front four, wow. It would finally be fun to watch the GB defense. Been a long time since that happened.

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Finwiz's picture

April 26, 2018 at 08:29 am

>>Either way, the packers round 1 pick should be a day 1 starter, not a project.<<

This is key....we need a guy that can start right away, not come off the field, and make impact plays.

That's asking a lot, but we have the ammunition to move up and get a highly skilled player this defense so desperately needs.

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dobber's picture

April 26, 2018 at 09:04 am

Committing to drafting a guy who will be a day 1 starter is just shy of saying the Packers should draft for need. My honest opinion is that I'd like to see the Packers swing for the fences with that #14 pick. Draft a player's ceiling and use the rest of their draft capital to shore up holes on the roster.

They could draft a guy to plug an immediate hole at #14 and find a very good pro, but they're also just as likely to get a guy who's near his ceiling that way...someone who might never be more than a red-chip player. They need blue chippers. They need guys who are the next generation signature players for this team. It will be great if need, value, and player come together at #14, but if it's only player and value, I'm 100% on board with that.

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Handsback's picture

April 26, 2018 at 10:18 am

dobber, I think you are right on ceiling verses need. I think Davenport will make very little impact in his first year. I think his 2nd year will be tremendous and be a major pass rusher for years for the Packers. That would be why Green Bay would target him. Get starters in the 2-3rd rounds and let a player from the first round develop as a player. This might be the only year for awhile that Green Bay can grab a potential blue-chip playmaker in the draft.

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Minniman's picture

April 26, 2018 at 01:08 pm

Good points dobber and handsback, and I totally agree that this year's draft has a number of intriguing prospects at EDGE that could either be the next Von Miller...... or Mr Inconsequential

in clarifying I think that this year, with where the packers are picking and the number of positional reinforcements that - from the outside looking in - will be needed next year, it's reasonable to expect that the pick 1 player sees a lot of field time.

Ceiling vs picking a semi finished product is a tricky one now for the Packers, having already whiffed on a number of such 1st pick players in recent history to create these Defensive vacancies (Datone Jones, Derrick Sherrod, Damarius Randall to name a few)

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jneuhaus's picture

April 26, 2018 at 01:22 am

Great article - where is the link to Part 1?

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jneuhaus's picture

April 26, 2018 at 10:54 pm

YOU ARE A GENIUS THUS FAR!

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