Winston Moss out in Green Bay
The associate head coach follows Mike McCarthy out the door.
By PackerAaron
Packers associate head coach/linebackers Winston Moss is out.
The Packers have informed me that there letting me go. #thankstwitter!
— Winston Moss (@Insanecane99) December 5, 2018
I have serve the Packers with all my heart and soul. I’ve given it my all. no regrets!
— Winston Moss (@Insanecane99) December 5, 2018
The Packers made things official a bit later:
#Packers part ways with Associate Head Coach/Linebackers Winston Mosshttps://t.co/33eLsjc8ji
— Green Bay Packers (@packers) December 5, 2018
Moss was always tied to McCarthy, so the move really comes as no surprise. The timing may seem a bit odd until you find this Tweet on Moss' timeline from earlier today:
Ponder this... what Championship teams have are great leadership! Period! It’s not the offensive guru trend, it’s not the safe trend. Find somebody that is going to hold #12 and everybody in this building to a #LombardiStandard! Period! #losingsucks!
— Winston Moss (@Insanecane99) December 4, 2018
Speaking to a couple people inside 1265, they swear blind that this was coming for some time - but the Tweet above was pretty much the tipping point.
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Comments (153)
calabasa
December 04, 2018 at 09:20 pm
Have to say I’d be disappointed if his tweet played into it, which it looks like it did. Sounds like Winston was telling a truth Murphy didn’t want told...
Since'61
December 04, 2018 at 09:24 pm
Sounds like Winston was a chooch knocking the team's best player and oh yeah, there is that matter of about $100 million + investment.
Besides, why would we want to keep anyone as stupid as Moss? Thanks, Since '61
Johnblood27
December 05, 2018 at 12:23 am
61,
MM wanted to keep him.
He did for 13 years.
Even as Capers defense stunk up the fox river and the ILB were among the worst performing position groups.
This guy needed to go before Slocum was Slocum.
carlos
December 05, 2018 at 07:14 am
I listened to an interview in preseason and he was as rude as rude could get. I was actually embarrassed for him. Maybe others here saw it. He seemed like the ultimate bully. Even the reporters seemed intimidated by him. That was my take from it. Not a guy I’d be comfortable around as a leader. Maybe I read too much into it, but didn’t like him.
carlos
December 05, 2018 at 07:37 am
At the end of the day maybe all these accusations can be turned into a positive mindset in the near future. We all know stories grow, especially by the big media types, every time it’s presented. Where there’s smoke there’s fire so there must be some truth behind this mess. Time to look in the mirror and make the necessary changes to turn this around and bring championship football back to the Green Bay Packers.
Rebecca
December 05, 2018 at 03:36 pm
Like magic "...all these accusations can be turned into a positive mindset in the near future.". How does that work exactly?
carlos
December 05, 2018 at 06:43 pm
Maybe by being honest with ones self after taking o good look in the mirror and saying,”How can I put a positive spin towards my teammates and especially myself.” I’m talking not one individual, but all players, coaches, trainers right down to the secretaries. A sudden change can with a overall effort on every ones part can have positive results. On a sour note it could go the other way also, but I feel it will work itself out on a positive manner. As fans we can only hope. It’s something we all have to do at times. It’s not magical at all.
Lare
December 05, 2018 at 06:51 pm
Waiting to see all the Winston Moss support comments from Packers insiders.
All I've seen so far is "He was being protected by McCarthy, this was long overdue".
LambeauPlain
December 05, 2018 at 07:51 am
Moss was the ONLY coach MM would not let the media talk too.
I am certain Pettine is very happy today.
PackerAaron
December 04, 2018 at 09:26 pm
Word is this was Philbin's call. He got permission from Murphy and Gutekunst to make the move.
TKWorldWide
December 04, 2018 at 09:32 pm
“Associate head coach” not named interim head coach? Never even considered it, but maybe Winston took it as a slap and lashed out.
(Or “lash doubt”, as he probably would have put it.)
HankScorpio
December 04, 2018 at 10:26 pm
It might have been Philbin's call. But my guess is that he didn't make it by himself. At the very least, he consulted Pettine and got him to sign off on it.
That's if the idea did not come from Pettine himself--which strikes me as the most likely scenario.
That's all pure speculation. I hope we get some reports on the rest of the story
LambeauPlain
December 05, 2018 at 07:51 am
No doubt after Pettine said "Joe....NOW can we get rid of this clown?"
Rebecca
December 05, 2018 at 03:29 pm
Sources tell me the go ahead to fire Moss began with Aaron Rodgers.
Lare
December 05, 2018 at 04:05 pm
Yeah, I heard that Rodgers would sit in the linebackers meetings and try to undermine Moss.
Leatherhead
December 05, 2018 at 10:12 am
"Find someone who will hold #12 accountable"
There are a lot of people who need to wrap their mind around that.
Skip greenBayless
December 05, 2018 at 03:49 pm
Yes there is Old School. Most just want this to go away. I commend the few brave souls like Wintson Moss who called out this problem and it's a serious one. We need to address these control issues that Aaron Rodgers has on people and organizations. It's getting way out of hand.
Rebecca
December 05, 2018 at 05:15 pm
130$ million worth of control lol
LambeauPlain
December 05, 2018 at 08:02 pm
Yeah, well...Sir Winston was finally held accountable for being a lousy coach and poor communicator.
HankScorpio
December 06, 2018 at 06:02 am
"There are a lot of people who need to wrap their mind around that."
Can you list a few examples of who needs to wrap their mind around holding Rodgers accountable? And maybe include just how they might go about holding Rodgers accountable? Or alternately, how they are not holding him accountable now?
Since'61
December 04, 2018 at 09:21 pm
Well Moss you wanted them to hold everyone to a Lombardi standard so they have started with you.
What was it exactly that you have done for the Packers all these years besides tweet some stupid smack about the team's best player.
Let's see the Packers management conversation today.
Moss or Rodgers? In less time than it took for Monty to fumble away the Rams game Packers management decides, Rodgers! "Bye, bye Winston."
Another chooch gone. Keep chucking TTs guys and MMs staff. Moving forward. Go Pack Go!
Thanks, Since '61
packerbackerjim
December 04, 2018 at 10:01 pm
Institutional incompetence under MM that was the next best thing to a Supreme Court appointment in terms of job security.
HankScorpio
December 04, 2018 at 10:15 pm
I sincerely hope it had nothing to do with his tweet from earlier today. If they are firing defensive coaches to protect Rodgers, the organization is screwed.
Skip greenBayless
December 04, 2018 at 11:54 pm
Of course it did Hank.
HankScorpio
December 05, 2018 at 06:23 am
If Moss wasn't a MM pet coach that deserved the heave-ho at least 5 years ago (probably more), i might agree that the tweet had to play into the timing. I don't know that Moss was as surly with everyone as he was with the press but he was ridiculous with the press. He makes Bill Belichick look warm and personable.
So until I know differently, i'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and believe they did the right thing for the right reason, instead of believing they did the right thing for the wrong reason.
Leatherhead
December 05, 2018 at 10:25 am
Moss was gone and he knew it, so he spoke his mind and started the off-season early.
The story here isn't the firing; it's the comments about Arod. When you go and really study the film, he's killed a lot of drives this season with bad decisions and off target throws.
Rebecca
December 05, 2018 at 03:47 pm
There's plenty of blame to spread around. The O-line is crap except for center and left guard. The wide receiver group other than Adams, Cobb and Allison is still learning the pro game and Cobb/Allison haven't contributed much beyond a couple lucky huge plays. If nothing else, these groups, being vital to the passing game, have contributed to Rodgers' drive killing decision making.
FAN24583
December 05, 2018 at 08:52 pm
Agreed Rebecca. 100
Leatherhead
December 05, 2018 at 10:18 am
Miss wasn't going to be here and the org. did him a favor by cutting him loose before the holiday and giving him a head start on his job search.
I think this is a good move. And yeah, his comments about Rodgers should be taken seriously.
Leatherhead
December 05, 2018 at 10:18 am
Miss wasn't going to be here and the org. did him a favor by cutting him loose before the holiday and giving him a head start on his job search.
I think this is a good move. And yeah, his comments about Rodgers should be taken seriously.
Free agent
December 04, 2018 at 11:26 pm
Another one bites the dust.... keep it coming Murphy, shake the crusty leaves off this shitty tree.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 05, 2018 at 02:42 am
"Well Moss you wanted them to hold everyone to a Lombardi standard so they have started with you."
You owe me a new keyboard, Since '61. Nevermind, the laugh is worth the cost of a new keyboard. I've been wondering what Moss does for five years.
Turophile
December 05, 2018 at 03:41 am
It wasn't just about Moss's close association with McCarthy, Moss pretty much suicided at the press conference earlier in the year, when he was so childishly surly. He was on a countdown timer from then on.
Since'61
December 05, 2018 at 08:39 pm
No worries TGR. Just tell me where to send the check. Thanks, Since '61
fastmoving
December 05, 2018 at 05:16 am
yeah, sad they have to stick with AR and have to let the good guys go. He just said what everyone is thinking. But as the truth hurts, guys go rather with some conspiracy theories. but at least funny and tells a lot about some fans.
Thanks Winston for everything,. he has the HC interviews for a reason
But I get it, its a shame if you want AR hold to hight standards. Crazy idea........
HankScorpio
December 05, 2018 at 06:30 am
What makes Moss one of the good guys? He was a flaming dickhead to the media and his players have been chronic under-achievers. He pushes the boundaries of the notion that you should not take joy in a person losing their job.
Even through all the kind words that have been wrote about MM after his dismissal, a consistent criticism that he was too loyal to failing assistants has been a recurring theme. Winston Moss is the poster boy for that, IMO.
Like I said below, I did not expect any additional staff changes after MM was dismissed. But Moss (and Zook) have been key contributors to the issues that have plagued MM's tenure.
packerbackerjim
December 05, 2018 at 07:14 am
Who has Moss actually developed that would indicate he is a good coach?
LambeauPlain
December 05, 2018 at 08:09 am
AJ Hawk? Ok maybe not...Perhaps Jones? No? Um...Barrington? The other 5 inside LBs that lasted a year or so in Green Bay?
He did take over "coaching up" OLBs Perry and CMIII to pro bowl caliber the last few years...oh shoot. Never mind.
After Moss stuck his foot in his mouth, I would venture Pettine went to Philbin and said "NOW can we get rid of this clown? He does nothing for me. He is hurting out LB corps."
HankScorpio
December 06, 2018 at 06:28 am
"After Moss stuck his foot in his mouth, I would venture Pettine went to Philbin and said "NOW can we get rid of this clown? He does nothing for me. He is hurting out LB corps.""
I'm not so sure it was after St Moss released the Holy Tweet of Antioch.
I have to imagine that some time on Monday was devoted to Philbin talking to Pettine, given they worked opposite sides of the ball and probably don't have a tight relationship. It seems likely that Philbin would ask Pettine what he needs to finish out these last 4 weeks on a positive note. I can easily imagine Pettine responding by saying Moss is not on board with what they are trying to do and his presences is counter-productive.
Taking the hypothetical further, maybe Philbin follows that up with talking to other defensive coaches. And makes a point to probe for their thoughts on whether Moss is helping or hurting. Given that Moss is a "straight shooter" (alternately phrased: Can be very abrasive), the consensus is not friendly to Moss. After sleeping on it, Philbin decides to take cutting ties with Moss to Gute on Tuesday. Things proceed through the chain of command and approval is granted. A press release is prepared, vetted and put out.
And all of this happened without anyone reading twitter. Or if they did, they thought a vanilla coachspeak tweet about leadership and accountability was not a big deal just because it mentioned Rodgers.
Slim11
December 05, 2018 at 08:51 am
He has had several HC interviews during his time in GB and ...was never hired as a HC. That also says something about Moss. If he was as good as MM said he was, Moss would have been hired away from Green Bay several years ago.
In addition, one of the weakest position groups on this team has been the LBs. Part of that was coaching.
Since'61
December 05, 2018 at 09:15 am
Moss is one of the good guys?!!!? Really? Why? I’m not aware of anything he has done to help the Packers win since he came to GB.
No one watches the Packers to see Winston Moss or to get any additional knowledge about the game.
If not for Aaron Rodgers why would anyone, besides us Packers fans, watch the Packers or more importantly why would any FA want to come to Green Bay.
Without Rodgers we would have a team that could not win a game never mind a Super Bowl. Thanks, Since ‘61
Leatherhead
December 05, 2018 at 10:52 am
Actually, we won games without Rodgers. So does every other team in the league.
Moss gave quite a few years of his life to this organization. Why do people feel they have to smear crap on him now?
If you don't think Rodgers has contributed to this poor season, then I can't agree.
Since'61
December 05, 2018 at 12:14 pm
Everyone has contributed to this poor season including Rodgers. The point about Moss is what has he contributed over the last several seasons.
Rodgers is taking the heat for not overcoming all of this team’s weaknesses and mistakes as he has done in previous seasons.
The problem with the Packers in terms of management, coaching, players and fans has been complacency in assuming that Rodgers will produce double digit wins every season regardless of the team’s weaknesses, problems, penalties, poor drafts, weak coaching etc.
That was true up until week 6 of 2017.
Now that the wheels have fallen off Rodgers takes the blame for no longer being able to carry a team with a very weak roster. Yes, he has made a number of bad throws but has anyone helped out or even tried to pick him up?
Are we discussing the Green Bay Packers or the Green Bay Rodgers?
As for Moss he should have been gone long ago. He will not be missed because we never knew that he was there. Thanks, Since ‘61
flackcatcher
December 05, 2018 at 02:05 pm
Actually, both you and old school are right. Moss should have been gone years ago, but we all know Rodgers play has killed this team in the majority of games this year. A couple of years ago, two packer assistant coaches told me McCarthy had two enforcers on his staff. Moss and the guy who is the new head coach of this team. Moss was guy who told McCarthy the hard truths, every organization needs a person like that, But the boss needs his or her own truth teller, Moss could not serve that function under Philbin. Either way, he was gone. But he told an unwelcome truth going out the door. Better facing up it to now, than later, when a new head coach has to deal with the 'Rodgers situation' all over again.
Demon
December 05, 2018 at 05:28 pm
Rodgers did have some help 61. I think Adams Bhak and A jones gave all they had. Problem is they were few and far between and early in the season Jones rode the pine for the better part of most games.
Since'61
December 05, 2018 at 08:49 pm
Tornado - Adams is the best receiver we have but the problem is he is the only receiver that we have and the other teams know it. Bak is our best OL but he can't block everybody. A. Jones is a good back but he can't carry the offense especially with our OL. The problem is that the team has too few playmakers on offense and defense and they are not good enough to carry Rodgers when he does not play well.
Rodgers has not played consistently this season but the team cannot win unless AR plays perfectly. That is not a feasible approach for success in the NFL. We need better players and we need Rodgers to play better as well. Thanks, Since '61
dobber
December 05, 2018 at 12:39 pm
" Why do people feel they have to smear crap on him now?"
Seems to me that he's the one who called attention to himself. He's made himself an easy target.
HankScorpio
December 06, 2018 at 06:40 am
"Moss gave quite a few years of his life to this organization. Why do people feel they have to smear crap on him now?"
9 times out of 10, I would feel no such need. Moss is the 1 time out of 10. He is a surly jerk. His behavior with the press was appalling. He doesn't have to like his responsibility to meet with them and talk. But he does have to conduct himself like a professional.
Sometimes you have to do things you don't like as part of your job. That's not an excuse to act like a jackass while you're doing it.
Demon
December 05, 2018 at 01:05 pm
Fastmoving = slowthinking Maybe if you could peel your lips from MM's ever-widening rear end you would come to the conclusion that many of us have.... MM and his piss poor staff needed to go!!!
zerotolerance
December 08, 2018 at 02:49 pm
Right Since 61. Moss appears to be not too smart. Out with the old, in with the new. And we don't need so many coaches.
TKWorldWide
December 04, 2018 at 09:23 pm
1. I bet Winston will be a real sweetheart at his press conference this time.
2. My 4th grade teacher, Sr. Helen, would take a ruler to his knuckles for his spelling.
Since'61
December 04, 2018 at 09:44 pm
I had Sister Mary Margaret for that. Thanks, Since '61
Tundraboy
December 04, 2018 at 11:56 pm
Wasn't that also the name of a Cheech and Chong character?
Johnblood27
December 05, 2018 at 12:26 am
I dont recall a "Winston Moss" on any Cheech and Chong records or in any movies.
TKWorldWide
December 05, 2018 at 06:02 am
Oh my gosh!
You just reawakened a prized childhood memory!
7 year old TK (wasn’t big enough to ‘TKstinate’ anything yet) with a buddy in the basement listening to his older brother’s Cheech and Chong record.
The immortal Sister Mary Elephant! “Class, class,...SHUT UP!”
We busted a gut every time, so, thank you, Tundraboy!
EdsLaces
December 05, 2018 at 08:02 am
The image of cheechs butt cheeks pressed against that glass scarred me for life ...
Tundraboy
December 05, 2018 at 09:19 am
No thank you. I forgot the exact name,Sister Mary elephant!. Perhaps Margaret or Mary was a George Carlin character now that I'm digging way back.
HankScorpio
December 04, 2018 at 09:47 pm
This is one of the least surprising things I had no idea was coming.
Moss was a pal of MM from their days in New Orleans. He was always billed as an up and comer but i could never figure out why based on the players under his leadership.
bigGuy
December 04, 2018 at 09:50 pm
I have mixed feelings on this one.
No way you can have players / coaches publicly criticizing other players and the organization.
On the other hand, I’m concerned they either don’t or won’t hold their top player(s) accountable. I only believe this may be true based on the press conference when Guty was asked what it would take to get Rodgers playing better, and he said he didn’t see any bad play. If Rodgers is no longer accountable, that will be a cancer that will destroy any chance of success.
Bearmeat
December 04, 2018 at 09:58 pm
Yeah... he probably hit a little too close to home on this one and it cost him his job. If he's right, rarely is there any benefit to going public with the company's dirty laundry, and certainly not in a situation like there where substantial turnover is coming to the coaching staff soon. All Moss did was nail his own coffin shut on his next job here.
If he's wrong.... well, good luck with your next high school gig, Mr. Moss.
Coldworld
December 05, 2018 at 05:52 am
But did he hit home on Philbin? Maybe he and Philbin were at odds, but my fear is that this is another Murphy move attributed to one of his reports.
Like many of us, I have not really understood what Moss brought to the Packers set up under MM. that confuses the issue, but if we get past the reference to the QB, his statement appears to imply that the organization is riddled with cronyism and double standards. If so after MM had left, Murphy would be the only possible target since Gute doesn’t appoint coaches and Philbin didn’t appoint himself.
Overall, I can’t miss a coach who’s role I never understood, but I do get a rapidly sinking feeling over the leadership of Murphy.
LambeauPlain
December 05, 2018 at 08:14 am
Moss should have been fired after the 2008 season when Sanders and his entire staff were all dismissed. Everyone but Moss...MMs crony.
I have no clue what MM saw in Moss. He even made him Assistant HC after destroying the play of the LBs he "coached up".
Maybe Sir Winston has a "photos".
JonathanSpader
December 04, 2018 at 09:59 pm
What's Vegas have the odds of Zook being fired next at?
Johnblood27
December 05, 2018 at 12:29 am
Zook is jumpier than a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
Since'61
December 05, 2018 at 12:16 pm
He is a cat on a “hot tin roof” at this point. Thanks, Since ‘61
sonomaca
December 04, 2018 at 10:17 pm
Sounds as if Moss was looking to get the heave-ho. Probably in his way to Cleveland with all the McCarthyites.
Philbin is the coach. He can presumably fire coaches at will. Can we please dump Zook and the QB coach next.
bigGuy
December 04, 2018 at 10:21 pm
They’re 2 coaches down now. Unless someone else criticizes Rodgers, I suspect they will finish the season, when they all will lose their jobs.
LambeauPlain
December 05, 2018 at 08:18 am
The Packers have almost as many coaches as players....well not quite but they do still have 22 on staff.
Coldworld
December 05, 2018 at 05:54 am
The real question is why would Philbin need this. Without knowing that, there are critical questions that are unanswered.
sonomaca
December 05, 2018 at 12:56 pm
When Moss speaks, are the words not McCarthy’s.
Since'61
December 05, 2018 at 01:53 pm
When Moss speaks no one listens. Thanks, Since ‘61
Since'61
December 05, 2018 at 01:58 pm
Sorry double post.
stockholder
December 04, 2018 at 10:29 pm
Sorry you guys are all wrong about Moss. Moss was a finalist in the Detroit Lions job. MM wouldn't let him go because of it. I have said he should go with Capers. I believe There was friction with him being by passed. Still this was a good move. It would have been nice to show a little class, and let him finish the season.
keeley2
December 05, 2018 at 08:34 am
You can't have it both ways. Imagine leaving Moss on staff while the younger players look up and see that those kind of comments won't get you fired? You're either serious about making changes and being accountable or you're not. Players will be under immense scrutiny over the next few weeks and will need to play up to their paychecks. The last thing they need is a distraction in the front office/coaching staff.
rstain99
December 05, 2018 at 08:40 am
MM could not hold back from Detroit it would have been a promotion even if he was under contract. Moss spoke his mind, everyone thinks Rodgers walks on water awesome QB wasted years last few no question but he is not without blame on this years team. Too much sniping for my liking overpaid playing a kids game maybe Josh McD is the answer maybe not but guys are really going to think twice about the job if your star QB is goosing the coach when he doesn't like the play calls. Makes you long for Brett Favre he of interceptions, one tough SOB fun and maddening to watch no question.
Doug Niemczynski
December 04, 2018 at 10:37 pm
BILLS CUT KELVIN BENJAMIN!
If you would've put me with any other quarterback, let's be real, you know what I'm saying?" Benjamin explained at the time. "Any other accurate quarterback like [Aaron] Rodgers or Eli Manning or Big Ben [Roethlisberger] -- anybody! -- quarterbacks with knowledge, that know how to place a ball and give you a better chance to catch the ball. It just felt like I wasn't in that position."
Isn't this the same thing Jared Cook said and it turned out great for him and the Packers until they let him go to Oakland.
I say sign Benjamin!
JonathanSpader
December 04, 2018 at 11:16 pm
Someone will overpay Brnjamin based off of when he was drafted. I like the upside of MVS/ESB/Kumero/Moore better and their price tags a lot better. If you can get Benjamin on a 1 year prove it deal kudos otherwise I don't see it happening.
Benjamin also had a good QB unlike Cook. He had MVP Cam Newton as his QB in Carolina. After tearing his ACL he hasn't been the same player he was his rookie year. That's as much on him as it is on his QB.
HankScorpio
December 05, 2018 at 06:12 am
After the trade deadline, everyone is subject to waivers. Benjamin has about $2 mil due to him for the rest of this season. That's guaranteed money that will come from the Bills or the team that claims him. He's a FA for 2019. They have the cap space to add him on a 4 game audition. If they claim him and he walks, he's added to the comp pick formula.
If he clears waivers, I seriously doubt he'd sign a new contract now. He's got that $2 mil guaranteed and is staring at the open market in a few months. He won't give that away on a cheap deal. So he's either claimed or sitting out the final 4 games, IMO.
At this point, they have little to lose. Rolling over that $2 mil in cap space is not going to be the thing that makes or breaks the 2019 off season. And really, the Packers *must* work on integrating new WRs faster. So if I'm Gute, I claim him and tell Philbin to work him in quickly. Even if he walks in FA, it's a good exercise adding vets to catch passes without what seems like a mandatory 2-3 year learning curve at present.
Skip greenBayless
December 04, 2018 at 11:20 pm
Wow!! this is one powerful tweet by Winston Moss. This took guts and courage to do. He knew saying it would cost him his job but his passion for the Packers and winning was stronger. I admire that. Once again, yet another person speaks out publicly about Aaron Rodgers. Family members, former players, now current/nowformer coaches. Every day it's someone new. This franchise killing contract by Rodgers is leaving one hell of a path of destruction. Who's next?
Johnblood27
December 05, 2018 at 12:30 am
I refuse to answer my phone.
I need my job.
I have criticized AR12.
Skip greenBayless
December 05, 2018 at 01:30 am
Funny you said that JohnBlood. I was originally going to say how the Packers top brass are using Nazi like tactics against any players and now coaches who speak out against the team or qb but I thought it might not be worth it as you said so I decided not to do so. If this continues with more firings for people trying to let people know the truth out about Rodgers and how he's not being held accountable like others because of his contract than I might possibly do so. Until then I will just remain quiet like most here.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 05, 2018 at 03:12 am
It seems to me that posters have been criticizing AR heavily here on CHTV. I have been wondering what the heck Moss does and what exactly are the bullet points on his resume for at least five years.
Nor do I think that mediocrities like Moss should be throwing players under the bus: if AR needs to be publicly criticized, that's a decision that should be made by the highest ranking members of the organization, not some sycophant like Moss. I don't agree with Hank about this: I am fine with firing Moss for a host of reasons or even if the sole reason was his tweet. Let the new HC, OC and the brass decide how to handle AR instead of a nothing like Moss muddying the waters.
fastmoving
December 05, 2018 at 05:21 am
Moss did the right thing.
And now he made a bad job in general, just because he did the right thing????
HankScorpio
December 05, 2018 at 07:02 am
"And now he made a bad job in general, just because he did the right thing????"
No. He was bad for performance based reasons dating back at least 5 years. And maybe 13 years. I cannot remember a time that I thought he was a strong performer among the coaches.
This is a richly deserved dismissal for performance reasons and that he couldn't perform his duties to talk to the media. I don't know why so many are automagically assuming there must be another reason.
Rebecca
December 05, 2018 at 04:07 pm
Not to support Moss, who I know little about except for fans opinion of him on here, but as has been repeatedly in defense of other coaches, he hasn't been drafting or otherwise picking up the lack of talent he's had to work with. Oh wait! He did great work with Fackrell this year, lol. And Reggie Gilbert had one good game in early October. hahaha
HankScorpio
December 05, 2018 at 06:52 am
"I don't agree with Hank about this: I am fine with firing Moss for a host of reasons or even if the sole reason was his tweet. Let the new HC, OC and the brass decide how to handle AR instead of a nothing like Moss muddying the waters."
Actually you do agree with me. No matter the reason, I'm fine with Moss being gone. Like you, I cannot figure out the bullet points on Moss' resume.
IF the sole reason was the tweet, that mindset will hurt them with the coming decisions they make but that doesn't change that in this case, the right decision was made. But I think that is a big *if* and I'll need a little more solid backing than idle speculation that an out of character statement was suddenly made and that was the sole impetus for his dismissal.
HankScorpio
December 05, 2018 at 06:36 am
You should have followed the instinct to avoid using the term "Nazi like tactics" given that there are no concentration camps and Zykklon B that is being used to quash dissent. That term is way over used and in ridiculous ways.
The Nazis were pure evil that engaged in genocide as they waged war on an entire continent The Packers fired a coach that should have been fired a long time ago. There is nothing comparable about the 2 situations.
Skip greenBayless
December 05, 2018 at 01:23 pm
Hank you are correct. I apologize to you and everyone else here. I should have never used the term "Nazi like tactics" regarding the Packers immediately getting rid of someone after that person voiced a public opinion that they didn't agree with on Twitter. I should have said "Democrat like tactics" instead.. The Nazi party actually incorporated all their policies from the Democrat Party in the United States in the 1930's. This is fact because I just watched the great Dinesh D'Souza's "Death of a Nation". Hank, I suggest you watch it. Great great history lessons. Thanks
Rebecca
December 05, 2018 at 04:14 pm
Your an expert, ("this is a fact.") on Nazi history because you watched "Death of a Nation"?
No, on the contrary, you have a biased opinion that didn't shoe much in the way of critical thinking skills.
I was going to call you a "f#$%^&@ing id*&%@t" but I'm to sweet!
Lare
December 05, 2018 at 04:32 pm
Consider the source Rebecca.
Demon
December 05, 2018 at 02:41 pm
Alyhough I strongly disagree with you on most of your opinions Dash I do respect them for their quality and content.
Why cant some of you just accept it was time for MM's gravy train to dry up. Moss was just another example of what was wrong of MM. Another clown that should have been gone years ago. Now the idiot goes on twitter and runs his mouth, is he that dumb that he thought he can do that without repercussions?
Mr. MOSS My advice to you would be , go buy a couple 24 pc buckets of the Colonels original recipe and go to BIg Mikes house and see if you can talk him into bringing you with him to wherever he ends up. If that doesnt work good luck in your new job in fast food.
Skip greenBayless
December 05, 2018 at 01:50 pm
"Mr. MOSS My advice to you would be , go buy a couple 24 pc buckets of the Colonels original recipe"
Seriously? "white" Tornado? No wonder you "strongly" disagree with most of my comments. Is Hank going to attack your choice of words like he did me? Probably not. I am amazed at all the hateful comments here regarding Moss for simply trying to save the franchise from being a dictatorship . I know why too but I refuse to say it.
Rebecca
December 05, 2018 at 04:18 pm
His quality and content? Your standards are quite low.
Coldworld
December 05, 2018 at 05:57 am
Not arguing, but don’t you read this as a shot at who holds the ultimate power, presumably Murphy? Ultimately he is blaming someone other than MM for not holding 12 to standards as I read it.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 05, 2018 at 06:20 am
I didn't think Moss was blaming McCarthy, but now that you mention it, it seems difficult to decide just who Moss had in his sights. AR is the only person specifically identified at any rate. Gute seems unlikely, it being his first year, but IDK. Just a scatter-gun approach.
HankScorpio
December 05, 2018 at 06:39 am
I think he got word that he was on the chopping block and decide to throw a bomb into the process. He's not a big user of the tweeter. So why did that first tweet come out yesterday?
Lare
December 05, 2018 at 07:13 am
Really, I don't think this is that unusual. Moss was in a high profile position for a major organization. I think pretty much any other person would also lose their job for posting criticisms of their employer in a public forum.
Let's put it this way, how many other assistant coaches do you see doing it?
LambeauPlain
December 05, 2018 at 08:01 pm
The 13 year crony, Sir Winston, the Packers Assistant HC, was such a great communicator, MM banned the media from communicating with him this year.
Moss was dead wood. Lousy coach.
Stickfish
December 05, 2018 at 06:41 pm
Exactly. Moss picked his exit strategy knowing full well the likely outcome whether tethered to MM or not. The stark reality is how does one hold a 130m player accountable?. If you are not a coach with a passion for hooded sweats with the sleeves cut and a hand full of SB bling you better be able to massage the 130m. Guessing that will leave many potential HCs at the curb. Give McCarthy credit for filling that role rather well for the past years.
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Tundraboy
December 05, 2018 at 12:01 am
The chips are piling up on Rodger's shoulders. It will be interesting to see how he plays now.
Skip greenBayless
December 05, 2018 at 12:06 am
I expect him to play exactly as he has all season, mediocre. If he somehow out of the blue plays like he did in 2010 than the Packers should actually fire him on the spot for treason and sedition.
Demon
December 05, 2018 at 02:55 pm
And turn over the reins to Tim Boyle, right?
Skip greenBayless
December 05, 2018 at 03:02 pm
Normally I would say yes to that but since I want the Packers to lose their last 4 games I would say continue to start Aaron Rodgers.
johngalt
December 05, 2018 at 12:23 am
Not sure why shedding light on #12 needing to be held to the same standard as the rest of the organization is so egregious. His tweet was spot on. This appears to be the beginning of a long dark period for the Green Bay Packers.
Skip greenBayless
December 05, 2018 at 01:30 am
I don't like this either Johngalt. I don't know jack about Winston Moss. Never paid him any attention but I just saw a passionate guy who had enough of the bull shit going on at the top and finally said something. This is all about Aaron Rodgers. He, like Jordan Rodgers, his mother and numerous others decided suicide was better than sitting back and letting Rodgers get away with more of his controlling bull shit. Death via twitter was preferred over supporting Aaron Rodgers. Think about that. Tell me what head coach wants to go into that situation? Moss did it for a reason. He fired his last flare and was hoping some new young creative offensive genius saw it before heading to Green Bay to face certain death. He should be honored but instead he'll be crucified. I for one have a new found respect for Mr. Winston Moss. I don't give a damn he can't spell. He's a hero.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 05, 2018 at 03:16 am
So you think it is a good thing that some "new young creative offensive genius" will refuse to accept a job in GB because of Moss' warning?
Well isn't that swell.
Skip greenBayless
December 05, 2018 at 03:54 am
What part about certain death working with Rodgers don't you understand? He'll eat any young guy alive. That was Moss's warning like it or not. He wanted the truth to get out. He knew he would get fired for saying it. That takes courage Reynoldo.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 05, 2018 at 05:44 am
What I get is that Moss' tweet (done while still employed by the Packers and accepting its money) is bad for the Green Bay Packers' future. That's the paramount issue and one that you failed to address.
Maybe it was courageous, but I don't know: Moss is not a hot commodity; he has probably been paid $375K to $500K per year (probably more as Asst. HC) since 2006 so he shouldn't be hurting for money living in GB; he was certain to get chucked by the Packers at season's end. Like Fredo, he can't keep sucking at the teat provided by MM's patronage anymore, had no future, and really was just a disgruntled employee who knew he was about to be fired.
He's only 52. Maybe I am wrong and someone will hire him. Perhaps he follows MM somewhere, or a college program. Maybe High School. I don't care about any of that, really: I just think on balance his actions were bad for the Packers.
Skip greenBayless
December 05, 2018 at 04:04 pm
"I just think on balance his actions were bad for the Packers."
..and Moss obviously thought the Packers actions or more like nonactions on Rodgers was bad for the franchise in the long run. He knows Rodgers better than anyone here. He's desperately calling for strong leadership. He talks about about young creative offense genius blah blah blah as not being the answer. I have been saying this for weeks now. We need a strong coach not some young punk who Rodgers will control in two seconds upon hire. Moss knows this is a recipe for disaster. He's trying to help all of you by sacrificing his job and personal life and all you guys try to do is paint him as a dumb angry out of control black man who should have shut his mouth and now that he didn't deserves to get fired. The Rodgers enablers here are rampant. I like Rodgers too but at least I can separate myself from the fan and look at this from both sides.
LeotisHarris
December 05, 2018 at 07:37 pm
Um, Dash? You've really hitched your wagon to the wrong horse on this one. Is this all just a mental hiccup or have to started sniffing glue?
Skip greenBayless
December 05, 2018 at 11:22 pm
I'll tell you what happened Leotis and this is personal. I took that DNA test that everyone's doing now and three days ago I found out something that left me shocked. It told me my usual ancestry which I expected but it also said I was part North African (Algerian). Now granted it wasn't a lot less than 1% but I had no clue up to three days ago (Im in my 50's for crying out loud) that I was African American. So yes, I've been going thru the emotions of this shocking news so when they fired Moss I had an immediate reaction to him and felt as part African American that I should side with him. I honestly think most if not all the people except myself that come here are white. Seriously. We lack an African American voice here big time. I just felt the need to support Winston. Sorry if that disturbs many of you. I'm honestly shocked at the hateful comments toward Winston.
LeotisHarris
December 07, 2018 at 09:04 pm
Well, Dash, we're all related, and all from the Cradle of Civilization. So, I guess in a sense you've done a solid for humanity, not so much for African Americans.
This could be the universe giving you a nudge to rethink Jesus' physical appearance, though. A lot of people are saying God writes straight with crooked lines.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
December 08, 2018 at 03:18 pm
Holy Hanna....
fastmoving
December 05, 2018 at 05:24 am
everyone can see whats going on in GB, if someone needs a twitter post for that, he is wron here anyway
edp1959
December 05, 2018 at 02:01 pm
All of this speculation you spew insinuates that somehow you actually know what is going on, but you don't; so it's just useless dribble.
Lare
December 05, 2018 at 04:29 pm
True, consider the source.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
December 05, 2018 at 03:44 am
Crazy!
I have read the tweet and unlike Dash I am not sure how to interpret it. Was Moss such a MM supporter he willingly threw his career away to foolishly support an already fired head coach? Or after seeing how bad Moss was in communicating did his tweet not reflect his intent?
Like I said...Crazy!
Lare
December 05, 2018 at 03:56 am
Winston Moss obviously isn't the sharpest tack in the box. Regardless whether you agree with him or not, sending a message like that was stupid. Not only did the message and his previous childish actions cost him his job, it may also make him un-hirable at any major college or NFL team in the future.
fastmoving
December 05, 2018 at 05:30 am
whats childish for you is probably something good for someone else. And I would agree with the sharper guys as well.
So you will see how fast he got another job and you be wrong again.
Coldworld
December 05, 2018 at 06:00 am
It could be that he felt it had to be said, which would evidence integrity.
Overall, this adds to a picture of widespread dysfunction created during the explanations of last season’s upheaval in the front office.
Skip greenBayless
December 05, 2018 at 12:07 pm
Agree Coldworld. That's how I am looking at this. Winston Moss is a man of honor and integrity and couldn't sit silent any longer. He gave up his life and job for the betterment of the Packers franchise HOPING that they will find a true leader that will hold Aaron Rodgers accountable. He shouldn't be looking for another coaching job, he should be running for public office. With a single tweet he might have saved the Packers franchise from an epic disaster that lasts a decade or longer. Winston Moss is an American hero.
Lare
December 05, 2018 at 05:06 pm
Nothing wrong with having a hero.
4zone
December 05, 2018 at 05:06 am
Probably still loyal to MM and who knows what was said behind closed doors. Philbin may have simply wanted to rid himself of an unnecessary distraction. He only has 4 weeks to make his case for being the permanent HC. It shows he's willing to make hard decisions to right the ship. Or perhaps not so hard in this case. Regardless, it's good to see someone do something for a change.
Can't wait to see the product this week. Would love to see a completely different team than what we saw last week.
Wonder if Zook gets canned next.
Slim11
December 05, 2018 at 09:02 am
Another thought...did Philbin want to get rid of the one person remaining who has the title "associate HC?"
Samson
December 05, 2018 at 05:58 am
Maybe Moss wanted the whole month of December off knowing he was gone on 12/31/18 anyway. -- Maybe MM is already putting together his next coaching staff & now all he needs is a team (in Ohio) to call him.
Or maybe Moss just isn't the brightest bulb on the Xmas tree.
Lofton Dickey
December 05, 2018 at 07:38 am
Think people are reading too much into this. A mediocre assistant coach has departed. ALL assistant coaches' coats are presently hanging on shaky pegs. There's plenty more wrong with this roster than poor QB play. And remember, Rodgers has played most of the season injured. Let's judge / write off #12 when he's fully healthy and fully practised.
Aaron Rodgers will play no part in the hiring of the next head coach. Enough said.
pacman
December 05, 2018 at 08:05 am
I don't know how anybody judges anyone other than the HC and play callers (O, D & ST coaches too) unless you are inside the organization.
And I certainly hope that AR's input IS utilized in hiring the next HC. AR needs to be managed and this would just be a gesture to show him they value his input. They need good chemistry between HC and AR. Why would he not have input?
LambeauPlain
December 05, 2018 at 08:03 am
Winston Moss and MM became best buddies while coaching together in New Orleans in 2000.
Winston was one of MMs first hires in 2006.
After Sanders was fired following 2008, Sir Winston was the ONLY defensive coach retained.
MM forced him onto Capers staff where he coached up ILBs like Hawk and Jones. MM soon thereafter made him Assistant Head Coach which still remains a enigma, wrapped in a shroud, surrounded by a mystery. Just what did he do?
After Greene abruptly left the Packers as OLB coach for reasons never fully explained (coaching tension with Moss?), MM put Moss in charge of ALL LBs. That didn't work out so they brought in McCurley to actually do some coaching of LBs.
When Capers was fired, Moss was forced onto Pettine's staff.
Moss had a few NFL interviews for Head Coach but never got serious consideration.
Moss was the ONLY assistant MM would not let the media talk to this season.
Once Sir Winston's meal ticket, Mike McCarthy was gone, it was simply a matter of time before he was fired. The only coaching job Moss will get next is wherever MM lands.
Moss's core competency was being a MM crony...like Zook and Capers.
However the Pack is taking Winston's advice and "holding him accountable" for being a lousy coach and team cancer.
Doug Niemczynski
December 05, 2018 at 09:54 am
I would have my bags already sent to my next destination. Just waiting on my exiting papers.
Bye Zook!!
Rossonero
December 05, 2018 at 12:58 pm
Kevin Greene's original reason for leaving the Packers was to spend more time with his kids/family. I believe he wanted to be there to support his son playing football.
LambeauPlain
December 05, 2018 at 08:39 pm
Right. Moss was a crony of MM and I am sure Greene "loved" having to put up with the "chosen one".
Greene actually coached up his guys. CMIII thrived under his coaching. Once Sir Winston took over, his production dived.
egbertsouse
December 05, 2018 at 08:57 am
Moss was an arrogant jerk. Buh-bye! Next on the list: Ron Zook and (get your fingers on the dislike button, folks) Joe Whitt. He hasn’t developed many good DBs and has allowed many to regress. So now you will all shout about Jaire Alexander. He has superior talent and came in with good skills so he is an exception but not the rule.
Lphill
December 05, 2018 at 09:19 am
Zook has his bags packed already.
Tundraboy
December 05, 2018 at 09:30 am
At the airport yet?
Lare
December 05, 2018 at 05:07 pm
I can give him a ride if he needs one.
FAN24583
December 05, 2018 at 09:44 am
when is Zook getting the boot???
Rebecca
December 05, 2018 at 04:21 pm
about 3 - 4 years too late
Lare
December 05, 2018 at 05:08 pm
Hopefully they don't have Mason Crosby do it, he'd probably miss.
Doug Niemczynski
December 05, 2018 at 09:52 am
This is so weird already talking about next year when this year isn't even over. December used to be one of the most exciting months for us!!
Depressed :(
thebeast431
December 05, 2018 at 12:15 pm
I'm actually excited about this year. For the first time in a decade, we will have a fresh, new look on the offense. Now sure, maybe the plays themselves will be the same (Philbin was OC), but the play calls themselves (3rd and 10 with a hand-off to Williams for instance) may be no more.
albert999
December 05, 2018 at 12:19 pm
I agree with Winston Moss in his tweet that probably got him fired
Rossonero
December 05, 2018 at 01:03 pm
My only concern is that Moss's feelings are a symptom of a greater problem within the coaching staff:
that Aaron Rodgers gets special treatment and is not held accountable for poor play.
Unequal treatment like that can eat at morale and cause a locker room to fracture.
LambeauPlain
December 05, 2018 at 07:54 pm
Sir Winston got preferential treatment from MM for 13 years.
albert999
December 05, 2018 at 01:31 pm
Fracture it has!!!
Rossonero
December 05, 2018 at 02:49 pm
I also wonder: is Joe Philbin part of the solution, or part of the problem?
How much is he a disciple of McCarthy and how much can he deviate from the same old stale script to improve the offense?
I guess we'll find out how the team responds to him over these last 4 games.
Part of me says to give him a chance and another part of says he's a not-very-successful-ex-Miami Dolphins head coach (aka Cleveland South). Miami is as dysfunctional organization as any in the NFL.
Skip greenBayless
December 05, 2018 at 07:36 pm
I heard a great comment by Chris Havel on sports talk radio. He said something to the extent that Joe Philbin should already be excluded from being head coach because if he knew Winston Moss was a problem from the get go, he should have fired him the day before he tweeted out. Instead he made a reactionary decision based on the tweet then fired him. He had the same problems in Miami with Richie Incognito. Joe Philbin is not Penske material that I can tell you. He's weak and reactionary not strong and decisive. Nice job Joe.
LeotisHarris
December 05, 2018 at 07:48 pm
Dash, buddy, get some fresh air. What the heck is wrong? I've read this thread and it seems you're not getting enough blood to your brain, or your account has been hacked.
Let's start with your comment on Joe Philbin. Labeling a man as "weak and reactionary" is a bold move. Do you have additional insights to share that helped shape that view, or are you flying with the Incognito incident?
I'll go out on a limb and say anyone who's lost a child and is still a functioning human being is someone I'd view as "strong."
LambeauPlain
December 05, 2018 at 08:10 pm
Murphy had the wisdom to spare MM 4 weeks of hell: Are you a lame duck, why isn't the offense working, do you and Rodgers have issues, what does Philbin do, why are you one of the worst third down teams in the league, you focus on offense...why is it so bad this year scoring points, why do you not use the run game and Jones more, have you lost the team, do you expect to be fired??????
And he had the wisdom to put Philbin in charge as interim HC vs the clown MM crony Winston Moss.
I have no clue how Sir Winston lasted 13 years in GB. Pathetic coach. Assistant HC? LOL!
Skip greenBayless
December 05, 2018 at 08:06 pm
That's quite a limb. I hope it's strong.
Cartwright
December 05, 2018 at 10:22 pm
I guess with that tweet Moss had his last Winston. Glad to see the Packers have finally quit smoking that stuff.
Chuck Farley
December 10, 2018 at 03:31 pm
I saw the guy on a sports talk show yesterday and didnt know who he was until the very end. All I know is he wasn't kind to the packer org and the things he said, ya he should have been canned a long time ago. It was that attitude thing.
Never mentioned, gee it was nice to be getting all those green pay checks over the years and being employed and living in green bay. Ya none of that came out, nor did he say how much he appreciated the job.
He was there on a tear down mission, getting even mission.
Chuck Farley
December 10, 2018 at 03:41 pm
To me Philbin is not the guy. We need two things IMO.
1. An offensive minded coach who can change the offense to be more creative. Lets face it Rodgers can do most anything but he's not a run pass option guy, neither is Brady or Favre.
2. Second we need a coach who from the get go at the interview says he has to build through the draft and free agency. The undrafteds and development theory is fools play and it never worked and Ted T is responsible.Hey why not trade a four and five and six for a two. Lets get some talent and skill players for a change. I'm done now. Sorry for the rant
Lare
December 10, 2018 at 04:27 pm
"Second we need a coach who from the get go at the interview says he has to build through the draft and free agency."
The Head Coach doesn't build the team, that's the responsibility of the GM (Gutekunst).