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Trades the Packers Should Consider Prior to Deadline

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Trades the Packers Should Consider Prior to Deadline

With the NFL trade deadline approaching a little over two weeks from now (3 PM Central on November 4) we speculate on four trades that Ted Thompson should consider to strengthen the Green Bay Packers for their run to Super Bowl 50.

Tight End:  It is no secret the reigning NFL MVP Aaron Rodgers could use receiving help and the TE position has hardly been a team strength.  Staring TE Richard Rodgers struggles to make big plays on a consistent basis. Andrew Quarless is on IR (Designated to Return) and Kennard Backman is merely getting by with the normal rookie orientation to the Packers’ complex offense.  The final member of the group is recent call-up Justin Perillo who serves as a place-holder until Quarless returns.

Possible TE Trade Targets:  Vernon Davis of the San Francisco 49’ers or Jared Cook from the St. Louis Rams.  Both are rumored to be available from teams that have little real chance of contending for anything this year.

Davis is a prime candidate for a trade. In the final season of a six-year, $42.7 million contract his production has been dropping.  As recently as 2013 Davis had 13 touchdowns on 52 catches, but last season he had just 26 receptions in 14 games prior to  the Thursday night game vs. Seattle.  This season Davis has just eight catches in four games as injuries and an overall poor offense has severely limited his production.  Yet Davis has given the Packers fits in the past. Many feel he could still be a dominant tight end in the right situation with a talented quarterback like Aaron Rodgers.

Cook who has been productive over the course of his career, with more than 100 catches over the past two years, but only 15 this season.  Cook signed a five-year, $35.1 million deal with the Rams as a free agent and while he has been solid during his time in St. Louis, he has not lived up to expectations either. He has two years left on his deal, but with no guaranteed money. Should he not pan out there would be little monetary penalty for a team signing him.  In the right offense and with the right quarterback, Cook can be a weapon.

Wide Receiver:  Aaron Rodgers is missing a huge piece of his long passing game with the absence of Jordy Nelson.  Coupled with Davante Adams missing time due to injury, Randall Cobb dinged up, and Abbrederis and Janis not quite ready for prime-time, there is a need for a deep threat receiver.

Possible WR Trade Targets:  Steve Smith of the Baltimore Ravens.  A highly productive receiver during his career is playing for a Ravens team which may already be out-of-the-running for post-season play.  In that case Smith becomes immediately available.  The 36 year old is rumored to be considering retirement at season’s end so there are only short term implications regarding a trade.  Smith has been having a solid year for the Ravens with 36 catches for 510 yards (a 14.2 YPC average) and 3 touchdowns.  Smith is also an accomplished return man, should the need arise, and would provide a positive veteran presence with a young group of wide receivers. 

Although not the deep threat Smith is, Anquan Boldin of the San Francisco 49’ers should also be considered.  Boldin has been a Packers killer in the past and has also been rumored to be retiring after the 2015 season.  With the Niners not going anywhere this year in terms of post season play, Boldin would almost certainly be available.  He also is having a decent year for a team that is struggling mightily on offense having tallied 28 pass receptions for 333 yards (11.9 YPC) and two touchdowns prior to the Thursday Night Seattle contest. 

The list of potential productive wide outs available is very limited making either of these one year ‘rentals’ very viable options.

None of the players mentioned would cost the Packers much more than a low-level draft choice.  With ample salary cap money available there is no reason not to pull the trigger on a trade if as a GM you believe that the player acquired might put your team over the top.  Andre Rison, a mid-season waiver claim after being cut by the lowly Jacksonville Jaguars, had such an impact for the Packers in their successful run to Super Bowl XXXI.

It is hard to believe that GM Ted Thompson would make such a trade given his M.O. to ‘stick with his guys’.  Yet his team is a legitimate Super Bowl participant and no rock should be left unturned in his quest for a title.



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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (79) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Horse's picture

No, no, no.
It takes players unfamiliar with an offense time to become competent in it. This isn't fantasy football where you just plug in stats ftw.

RCPackerFan's picture

First I want to start by saying I would be very shocked if Thompson actually traded for someone.
That being said, he has attempted to make trades in the past which he basically had done deals until another team stepped in last minute to up the anti.

Out of the 4 players mentioned, in order I think I would go with Steve Smith first, Jared Cook second, Vernon Davis 3rd, and Anquan Boldin 4th.

Smith is still a big time play maker. He would provide a deep threat on our offense. If he would retire after the year, he could be a really nice fill in replacement for Nelson.

Cook is an intriguing TE. He could provide the big play ability we are lacking at TE. He could be a nice compliment to Rodgers, and in our offense he could be a that extra weapon that we are lacking.

Davis could still be a good player. Has his production dropped because of his play or the teams play? That is the biggest question I have with him.

Boldin while I like him and think he is a very good WR, we really don't need another possession WR. We basically have a younger Boldin in James Jones.

sheppercheeser's picture

I don't buy into the Steve Smith , Vernon Davis scenario. Players that are too old. I think part of the WR problem is to sit AR and Janis down and have a meeting of the minds and find out why it's obvious that Aaron doesn't like him. If AR really wants to excel, he should invest more one-on-one time with Jeff J for the good of GB.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

"why it's obvious that Aaron doesn't like him."

Aaron looked like he liked Janis after that shovel pass. He was hugging him and patting him on the shoulder with a huge smile.

Janis just hasn't been ready to play. It's a HUGE HUGE jump to go from playing against the ilk of Michigan Technological University to the NFL. I don't get why that is so hard for people to understand. Instead they just jump to "Rodger doesn't like him".

croatpackfan's picture

Well said. I was also tired from the people who can not understand basics. Can you imagine Aaron Rodgers ruining his chances to win SB just because he does not like someone? That thought is so tragic that you can only loudly laugh on that idea!

croatpackfan's picture


croatpackfan's picture


4thand1's picture

HEY! MTU is in my home town!

jeremyjjbrown's picture

I don't mean to imply anything about MTU other than that the NFL has a lot better players.

4thand1's picture

I know jjj, i've seen him play, he was a man among boys in that div.

Dan Stodola's picture

You're from Houghton/Hancock? I've been there... I feel for you if true. Sorry but that town is a dump.

4thand1's picture

Up yours Dan, just a few miles out of town. Graduated from Houghton high decades ago. Do a lot of work at MTU. Its a great small town BTW. Tech is one of the best engineering schools in the country.

Dan Stodola's picture

A good friend got his Electrical Engineering degree there and a younger cousin is enrolled there. The campus was nice enough, the towns, both of them, were dumps. Like I said, Sorry. No disrespect to you, but there's a reason he blew town on most Thurs w/o going to his Fri classes. Unless its become a great place in the last 10 yrs or so. I went to Whitewater for a couple years and it was the same thing.

If you don't mind 400 inches of snow during the winter and about 2 months of nice weather a year, you probably like it a lot better. Not for me. That's not even mentioning the very high incidence of anti-depressant use and other phsychological issues stemming from the lack of sunlight for 10 months a year.

There's a reason I didn't say anything about the University. Its an excellent school for engineering and IIRC the Business School is well regarded too. But the towns, outside the university are not worth it to live in.

4thand1's picture

220 inches of snow on average. Yes the winters are long and you can't be a pussy to hang around. But I like to hunt and fish and there are endless miles of nat forests and land to use. Its remote and I love it. May not be your cup of tea, like big urban areas aren't mine. How about this for a thrill ride. Get on your mountain bike, hang a pork chop around your neck, and maybe a pack of wolves will drag you down for a snack. Soon as it quits rainin, I'm going bow hunting.

Dan Stodola's picture

Clearly I was exaggerating to some degree about the snowfall. I don't live there, nor do I care to. If you love it great, but I'm pretty sure the majority of people would not find it to their liking. And it is still fair to point out the really high use of anti-depressants and psychological issues due to the lack of sunlite.

I like my outdoors activities, but like most people I'm not into engaging the local wildlife while I enjoy my outdoors.

If you like being remote and maybe having to use anti-depressants that's up to you. Again, its not for me.

Since '61's picture

Rodgers throwing or not throwing to Janis has nothing to do with whether Aaron likes him or not. These are professional football players who need to execute at a high level. The issue is that Janis is not ready for a full time role. He is not ready to adjust to the pre-snap audibles and to read a defense and respond with the correct pass route. If he is running the wrong route and is not where Rodgers expects him to be when he expects him to be there the risk of interceptions and/or sacks increases significantly. I'm confident that Rodgers and the Packers coaching staff know where Janis is in his development as a receiver in the Packer's offense. The essence of draft and develop is that players are allowed to develop into their role over the time required. For some players it takes longer than others. For some it never happens and they're gone. I seriously doubt that whether or not they like each other has anything to do with it. Rodger's success is Janis' success and vice-versa. Thanks, Since '61

porupack's picture

well said since61.

Evan's picture

The notion that Rodgers would drop back, scan the field, see Janis running open deep down field and think "Ugh, that Janis kid is open...not gonna throw to that jerk...I'll just take the sack" is so beyond silly.

RCPackerFan's picture

I'm not saying that there is a personal issue there or anything. (i doubt there is).

But in the last 2 games there were 2 plays that Rodgers was looking right at a wide open Janis and didn't throw it and 1 play he took a sack on and in the last game he almost took a sack but threw the ball out of bounds. Perhaps there are reasons why he didn't throw it that we didn't see?

In the last game, it was on a bootleg play and Janis was running the flat route and was open on the play. My guess is knowing Rodgers he was trying to hit a bigger play down the field first. But for whatever reason he decided to not throw it at Janis and almost took a sack.

That being said, If Rodgers didn't like Janis, I doubt he runs down 40+ yards to be the first one to congratulate Janis on his big run.

Evan's picture

"Perhaps there are reasons why he didn't throw it that we didn't see?"

Probably like a million.

RCPackerFan's picture

'Probably like a million.'

That's a bit of an exaggeration.

I mean there are no more then 273,699 possibly reasons....

Mojo's picture

"Perhaps there are reasons why he didn't throw it that we didn't see?"

Like that Rodgers doesn't see the field very well?

I'd prefer it was he didn't like Janis. That's much easier corrected.

NashvilleCheesehead's picture

Huh? Yea, let's put Q1 in timeout if he's mean to Janis. Or let's make him say three nice things about Janis if Q1 does not play nicely with him. Come on, let's end this ridiculous speculation now.

aaronqb's picture

I think Jeff Janis' biggest problem is he isn't clear on his priorities. He is the biggest and fastest receiver on the team. He also is smart (30 on the Wonderlic test). But, when you read his postings on Twitter it's all about where he will go hunting next. I don't get the sense he spends enough time learning the Packer system. Jordy pretty much hinted the same thing last week.

Jeff Janis' success will be determined by how hard he works at his craft. The talent is there - the determination and sacrifice might not be.

Evan's picture

We're dissecting Janis' twitter now??

This has reached a new level of stupid.

aj's picture

For real, would Kaepernick's #thegrind tweets make you feel better about Janis?

Lphill's picture

Andre Rison worked out well , anything is possible.

MarkinMadison's picture

Andre Rison. Keith Jackson. I'd like to see it happen. I agree with RC's order of preference. I'm not too worried about integrating veteran players, particularly if it was to get done now, during the bye. From what I can tell, nearly every team has nearly every play in their playbook, it is just a matter of what whether their philosophy and strengths call for a play to be used and what terminology they use to call the play.

As I've said about something else in the past, the easy thing to do here is say, "no way." It probably won't happen so you'll be "right." It doesn't mean it isn't a good idea.

Dan Stodola's picture

Thompson is not Ron Wolf. Just as successful, but they go about things in a different manner. Enough w/ the Rison worked out.

porupack's picture

I can't imagine trying to plug anyone this late in the year, unless DAdams or Cobb just aren't going to be 100%.
Re; TE, only if one could fit in long term plans as an upgrade, yet contribute this year, ....Maybe a guy like Jared Cook, I don't know.
TE is where we should have picked up a modest priced FA in preseason; but not that I had anyone in mind.
leave it alone now.
I think we're fine at WR.

Since '61's picture

As I mentioned in a post earlier this week Steve Smith is probably the best WR to go for of the group discussed in the article. I agree with RC that he would be the 1st receiver that the Packers should try to acquire. He plays hard and would be a great presence in the locker room. As for integrating him into the offense, he's been in the league a long time, he will adapt and make plays. If not Smith then one of the TEs, because we need both depth and experience in that position group. To me, the time and the price is right to make a move. A Super Bowl title is worth a 6th or 7th round pick. Go Pack Go! Thanks, Since '61

GVPacker's picture

Since "61 I agree! Steve Smith is bonified playmaker and very Intense. I believe that his desire,passion to win a SuperBowl before he hang's it up will raise the emotional level of this team, just Like Charles Woodson did in 2010!

croatpackfan's picture

As it is place in public that Steve Smith is not for trade, only trade I would consider significant and good job would be taking Martellus Bennett from Bears. After that not period, but exclamation mark!

Since '61's picture

Croat - Bennett would be a nice pick-up but the price will be too high and more than TT would be willing to pay. Plus there are salary cap and contract considerations with Bennett. With Smith he's done after we win the SB. This is not about trading for the future. It is about acquiring a missing piece at a very reasonable cost to win the Super Bowl this year as Ron Wolf did with the Keith Jackson and Andre Rison moves back in 1996. Actually, the Andre Rison move is closer to the current situation. Favre's receivers went down in mid-season and Rison was available and Wolf made the move to get him. He came in and made an immediate impact and he made some big plays in the Packers Super Bowl victory over the Patriots. Thanks, Since '61

croatpackfan's picture

You are right, but Bennett is only "available" player I consider to be huge upgrade, not only for this season. I agree with you that the price may be high (to high), but Ravens and Smith clearly stated that trade is not the option... So, this Smith issue is over... And I don't agree with people who wants to "buy" or "trade for" any player. What good it will do for this year Packers? None. Only very experienced player like Smith you may expect to pick basic play book and contribute in 2 to 3 weeks. All other trades are just spending team resources (not only money, but also the time of team and coaches, time of coaching and preparation!)... I may be wrong, but it is not fantasy football where all teams have the same play book!

egbertsouse's picture

I think that TT should go to Shangri-La and trade for a unicorn. That has about as much of a chance of happening as any of these suggested deals. But, I guess we all need something to talk about during the bye week.....

Evan's picture

ha...true. But I'd rather talk fantastical trade proposals that have a less than zero percent chance of happening than listen to one more idiotic hot take about Rodgers and Janis' personal relationship.

4thand1's picture

Until Rodgers comes out publicly and says, "I don't like Janis", there's no merit to think he doesn't. The only thing holding back Janis is Janis, and everyone in the Packers organization knows it.

Mojo's picture

It doesn't have to be about their personal relationship. It could be about their professional one.

It could be Rodgers just doesn't like Janis as one of his receivers. Therefore, he avoids going to Janis unless it's the last resort (plus by design he's probably last in most of Rodgers progressions, anyway).

I believe Janis had 40 snaps last week. Some of those were running plays(not many though). The rest were passes. Janis got two targets, despite antidotes of being open and being bypassed. So if ARod throws to open, then why did he miss open Janis when his other options were covered(and he's looking right at him)? Either Rodgers just isn't going to Janis for some reason or he isn't diagnosing what he sees in front of him quick enough.

Don't care for either scenario.

Dan Stodola's picture

So now were speculating on anecdotal evidence? God this is getting ridiculous! Just stop already! Please...

Rodgers has nothing against Janis, other than Janis hasn't EARNED Rodgers trust yet. His receptions last week, should enhance the trust, but it takes time. Just like it takes time for Janis to earn the coaches trust.

Enough w/anecdotal evidence and conspiracy theories.

Pack12's picture

While I totally agree with Ted Thompson's draft and develop philosophy I do not understand his rigidity to anything but drafting players. He could of had Marshawn Lynch for a third round pick and he wouldn't budge. So I doubt he will do anything. With the loss of Jordy Nelson the Packers need a deep threat. Thompson needs to show a little flexibility and help put this team over the top.

Evan's picture

But then we wouldn't have had Alex Green!

Dan Stodola's picture

Why would you delude yourself w/ an article like this? Thompson has had better opportunities in past years than anything this year that made more sense and didn't do it. There is almost no chance a trade is coming.

RCPackerFan's picture

I will go as high as 2% chance of any of these things happening.

Since '61's picture

Dan - I agree. Regrettably, I don't think that TT will make a move. Thanks, Since '61

lebowski's picture

Time we all got on the Justin Perillo bandwagon

Doug_In_Sandpoint's picture

I heard that Perillo has been privately trashing Janis so that Rodgers (who hates Janis) will throw him the ball more.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

The commenters on the St. Louis blog hate Jared Cook. I mean hate. Dropsies and blocking. He is under contract for 2 more seasons at $7 million per year. The rams would have $2.6 million in prorated signing bonuses escalate onto their cap right away. This is a guy with astounding measurables. His production has been steady - 50 receptions per year or so, 600+ yards. [Edit: what I am trying to convey here is that despite the incredible combine performance, he was drafted only in the third round, and despite his outstanding physical abilities, his production, while good, has never matched his measurables. Something is missing with this guy.]

As for the WRs, perhaps it depends on what one thinks about whether Cobb will ever be healthy enough to look like a #1 this year, whether Adams is the answer, and to a much lesser extent whether Janis or Abby can contribute this season.

Smith sounds like there is something still in the tank and seems savvy enough to contribute this season. He makes the most sense.

4thand1's picture

Maybe he's really Colt Lyerla.

Lphill's picture

At some point you have to make a change and get Rodgers some help before it's too late , then it's gonna be oh well maybe we should have done this or that, Favre toward the end asked for help and didn't get it , hence the 1 ring, it will be a disgrace if Rodgers ends his career with 1 ring all because of not taking a chance in free agency.

ES 1957's picture

Nonsense. Favre only got one ring mainly because a) he threw too many picks b) Wolf bombed on his defensive draft picks and head coaches late in his career. c) Sherman was a horrible GM who ignored the defense to placate Favre. Signing big $ free agents is generally a losing proposition and the same is true for player for player trades. IE Graham to Seattle. The Packers have enough talent to win the Super Bowl now. They just need to get healthy and execute.

Mojo's picture

If the Rams are considering trading Cook because they don't like him, that's one thing. But if they're considering a trade because as the author suggests; they "have little real chance of contending for anything this year.", then I'd be really pissed if I were a Rams fan.

After just six league games played, division leader Arizona has a 4 & 2 record and the Rams 2 & 3. The Rams currently hold the tie breaker against both the Cardinals and Seahawks. I wouldn't cash my chips in just yet.

4thand1's picture

I would sign Randy Moss.

D Ernesto's picture

Bravo to Janis. He stepped up to the plate in the last game. My guess all along has been he has a problem with the play book. Maybe it's too much for him. Has has size and speed and been there two seasons. What else could it be.

D Ernesto's picture

Bravo to Janis. He stepped up to the plate in the last game. My guess all along has been he has a problem with the play book. Maybe it's too much for him. Has has size and speed and been there two seasons. What else could it be.

D Ernesto's picture

With all the trade talk you got guys coming back. How could you go out and get help whne help is coming?

MarkinMadison's picture

There is no legitimate deep threat coming back.

EdsLaces's picture

So 4 old guys that at least 2 of which are banged up? Sweeeeeet...

Nick Perry's picture

I would be in favor of the Packers picking up a TE, especially Cook. Would it take him a while to learn the offense? Obviously but a seam route is a seam route and he'd look damn good in Green and Gold clearing out the middle. The price is right is he has very little guaranteed money.

The sad thing is it will never probably happen. This is where I differ from several of my fellow Packers fans. It drives me absolutely nuts that TT doesn't use EVERY means available to him to improve this team. As well as Ted's done the last 3 years in the draft, you can't hit every pick and fix every hole with UDFA. Could you imagine the Packers offense with a TE like Cook? I can, all the way to SB50. Hey it might still happen but I'd like our chances a whole lot more with a legitimate TE.

Dan Stodola's picture

Nice to see you back Nick. I like Cook as a player, but he's never been that productive that I would want to trade for him and pay his 7M salary for the next 2 yrs beyond this one. I don't think he is that close to Finley to make him worth it and honesly, I've always considered him and under performer, relative to his talent.

murphy's picture

"I've always considered him and under performer, relative to his talent."

What did you consider Finley?

Dan Stodola's picture

That may well be true, but we weren't considering a trade for Finley. He was on the roster and developed in the Packers schemes. Not the case w/ Cook. And I considered Finley a better player and more of a threat than Cook.

So a relatively high draft pick (guessing 3rd) AND 7M per year for a player the coaches know little about? I'll pass, Thanks.

Nick Perry's picture

Thanks Dan, I was thinking trading for him for this year (Depends what the Rams want & would they trade to a NFC Team) and then depending what he looks like in the offense with Rodgers throwing him the ball, well then decide on him past this year. If the guaranteed money has been pretty much paid out, is it that much of a risk past this year? I never understood the money he got either but there's that voice inside saying "It would be awesome with AR".

sonomaca's picture

There will be no trade. Quarless is coming back. Adams and Cobb will get healthier. Montgomery might even play in Denver. Jones' hamstring will get better.

Trading would be a panic move.

ben's picture

coby fleener

Nick Perry's picture

OMG... For once Ben I agree with you! Fleener would be incredible in this offense.

LeagueObsrvr's picture

Ted is not one to panic and start giving away draft picks, which we all know he values a great deal. The Packers have two weeks to heal up and get ready for the play-off push. Adams, Cobb, Montgomery, Lacy, Quarless, Raji, and Burnett should all be fully healed and ready to rock. (did I miss any?) Go Pack!

sonomaca's picture

Exactly. The Pack are 6-0 with the injuries. When they get healthy, it's lights out for the rest of the NFC. The only really challenge is New England in the Super Bowl.

Otto's picture

Someone made the point it's late in the season to bring a player in and give them time to get caught up on the Packers offense.
Ideally, you'd want someone who knows the O already which limits you to the Giants and possibly the Fins. So, that means we need to get Odell Beckham from the Giants and Cameron Jordan from the Fins.
I've worked out a way we can get them both for one 6th round pick.

Nick Perry's picture

LMAO, that was funny Otto!

4thand1's picture

Which team gets the pick?

AgrippaLII's picture

I don't see TT giving up a draft pick unless it's to move up during the draft. Ted isn't going to find a WR or TE he can just plug into the offense over night...not without simplifying their role in why bother with a trade when you've got the talent on the team already? I read earlier this season about the defense being simplified to help the new guys and it's working out pretty well...the offense is going to have to do the same. Simplify it and let the young guys make plays.

TommyG's picture

The entire "who we should trade for" talk is nonsense without discussing who would be traded away. Steve smith isn't going anywhere without compensation in excess of his value. Why you ask? Because the Ravens know that Packers have a need. Cook isn't going anywhere because Rams are competitive. I live within range of Ravens radio. There is talk of trading away Smith. They think he is worth a 2nd round pick! TT would never give up that pick for a guy who might only play 10 more games this year.

I liked the first comment on this discussion: this is not fantasy football.

chaka's picture

Ted should reach out to Colt Lyerla. The TE's we have are garbage. He would offer immediate impact for little risk. He should be our starter.

Lphill's picture

Meanwhile the Patriots seem to have a new roster every season and pick up guys during the season , seems to work out for them.

4thand1's picture

Its all about Brady.

Lphill's picture

If the Packers don't come up with a deep threat and at the same time don't get Lacy going , it will be another wasted season with Rodgers.

Clay Zombo's picture

TT is no Ron Wolf, that is true. Wolf gave up a 2nd round pick for a TE (Keith Jackson) when the guy didnt even want to play for GB. If it wasnt for Reggie White convincing Jackson to report, that trade may have backfired as im not sure the pick was even contingent on Jackson reporting to the team or not.

In my personal opinion Steve Smith is just the kind of blood and guts warrior this team could really use on offense. Even at his age hes a capable #1 receiver because hes still quick as a whip. I would have no problem shipping a 6th rounder to Ozzie to get Smith for the rest of this season. Up to 13 games including playoffs and SB.

Will it happen, I doubt it but Ted did try trading for Moss and Beastmode in the past so its possible . Granted he pushed Moss for a two year commitment and blew that trade and wouldnt beat Seattle's offer for Lynch so it will have to be on his terms.

Only downside is his addition could stunt the development of Janis and Monty but im ok with that for 1 season anyway especially if he becomes a big time contributor down the stretch.

So come on Ted take a walk down the yellow brick road and talk to the wizard Ozzie. James Jones addition was reactive and that worked out great so far, now try to be proactive and get Rodgers another explosive weapon to throw to.

Its not plug and play but it wouldnt take long to carve out a nice niche for him while he learns the finer points of the offense.

Icebowler's picture

So who on our roster is going to talk Smith out of his "if they trade me I'll retire" statement?

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